Moorhead (ND) mom shocked by her New York (LaGuardia) gun arrest

[Wendell]

Beth Arneson Ferrizzi’s stumble into New York’s legal system began March 16, when she and her daughter flew to New York City to visit her best friend, meet Ferrizzi’s husband and attend his sister’s wedding in Philadelphia. Now, the 29-year-old Moorhead mom is charged in Queens Criminal Court with a felony count of criminal possession of a loaded firearm – punishable by up to 15 years in prison – despite taking what she thought were all of the proper steps.
http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/395077/

[Ed L]

Many gunowners are not cognizant of other state's laws, and as illustrated in this sad example, don't know how to find the information.

However, NY is one of the most notoriously antigun states known for jamming people up and has received lots of news coverage for doing so.

[PPGMD]

NYC doesn't respect FOPA, DO NOT FLY THROUGH THERE WITH A GUN UNLESS YOU HAVE A NEW YORK PISTOL PERMIT!

This isn't about respecting New York's law, she was simply traveling through based on the new article. She was doing everything correctly under Federal law. New York City simply doesn't respect Federal law. They will arrest anyone attempting to check a gun that doesn't have a New York pistol permit.

[Odin Bravo One]

Like Caleb's rules for avoiding trouble.

Might be prudent to add "Don't go to stupid places that have stupid laws".

[HCM]

NYC doesn't respect FOPA, DO NOT FLY THROUGH THERE WITH A GUN UNLESS YOU HAVE A NEW YORK PISTOL PERMIT!

This isn't about respecting New York's law, she was simply traveling through based on the new article. She was doing everything correctly under Federal law. New York City simply doesn't respect Federal law. They will arrest anyone attempting to check a gun that doesn't have a New York pistol permit.

FOPA is the law of the land and "safe passage" is one of it's key provisions. Whether NY wants to respect FOPA or not is just as irrelevant as whether Alabama wants to respect the Voting Rights Act.

It is unlawful for state or local law enforcement officers to engage in a pattern or practice of conduct that deprives persons of rights protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, (42 U.S.C. § 14141) including discriminatory harassment and false arrests.

The question is who wants to be the test case for a federal injunction against NYC and or the Port Authority of NY / NJ and what 2nd Ammendment organization will fund the challenge ?

[RoyGBiv]

NYC doesn't respect FOPA, DO NOT FLY THROUGH THERE WITH A GUN UNLESS YOU HAVE A NEW YORK PISTOL PERMIT!

This isn't about respecting New York's law, she was simply traveling through based on the new article. She was doing everything correctly under Federal law. New York City simply doesn't respect Federal law. They will arrest anyone attempting to check a gun that doesn't have a New York pistol permit.

FOPA doesn't apply if you make a layover to visit friends in NYC.
FOPA only applies to continuous travel.

If, for example, you are driving from VA to NH, a situation where your gun is welcome on both ends of your trip, FOPA will apply if you get pulled over on I-95 in the Bronx. You may still take the ride, but Federal law trumps.

If you are changing aircraft in NYC, your bag is already checked. If your continuing flight is canceled or you are in a situation where you need to reclaim your luggage for any reason DON'T. Call a Transit COP and explain the situation, but DO NOT take possession of your luggage with the gun inside. Better yet, don't ever take a connecting flight via NYC. If for some unexpected reason you find yourself in NYC in possession of your gun, keep your trap shut, rent a car, drive to Pennsylvania IMMEDIATELY. The extra car/air travel charges will be a pittance compared to the potential legal woes.

IANAL, this is my opinion, not legal advice.

[Odin Bravo One]

IANAL, this is my opinion, not legal advice.

Perhaps not legal advice. But sound just the same.

Creepy that you used the VA to NH example. I'm driving to NH, from VA next week to teach a carbine course.

And my route, while less convienient than the most direct route, takes me plenty far away from NJ and NY because getting hemmed up by the cops and their interpretation of the law, or Bloomberg and his cronies and their interpretation of the Constitution isn't worth saving a couple of hours and $30 worh of gas.

[TGS]

Perhaps not legal advice. But sound just the same.

Creepy that you used the VA to NH example. I'm driving to NH, from VA next week to teach a carbine course.

And my route, while less convienient than the most direct route, takes me plenty far away from NJ and NY because getting hemmed up by the cops and their interpretation of the law, or Bloomberg and his cronies and their interpretation of the Constitution isn't worth saving a couple of hours and $30 worh of gas.

How are you driving from VA to NH without going through NY?

[MEH]

How are you driving from VA to NH without going through NY?

Either just avoiding NYC or perhaps it's easier to go through Canada. :)

[PPGMD]

FOPA doesn't apply if you make a layover to visit friends in NYC.
FOPA only applies to continuous travel.

Oh I understand that, but NYC airports are the airport of choice even for people not actually visiting the city, this story for example. Unless there is more to the story it sounds like she went from the airport to Philly, and straight back to the airport. So if that is true she should be would covered by FOPA, but Port Authority Police arrest first and let the DA deal with it. OTOH that boxer, he was staying in NYC, he wasn't covered by FOPA.

Personally if my understanding of the events were true, she would be the perfect test case for SAF or the NRA to slap down Port Authority Police on their automatic gun arrests. She is a youngish mom, with a husband in the military, pregnant at the time, and attempted to follow the law.

[LittleLebowski]

Creepy that you used the VA to NH example. I'm driving to NH, from VA next week to teach a carbine course.


Skipping NoVA along the way. No SeanM carbine classes in NoVA. I see how it is......:D

[PPGMD]

How are you driving from VA to NH without going through NY?

Yeah I am confused also, there is no way to drive between those two states without crossing through New York for some distance. Unless you own boat that can carry a car.

But anyways I've rarely heard these FOPA issues out the rest of NYS, most of them are from New York City.

[RoyGBiv]

Oh I understand that, but NYC airports are the airport of choice even for people not actually visiting the city, this story for example. Unless there is more to the story it sounds like she went from the airport to Philly, and straight back to the airport. So if that is true she should be would covered by FOPA, but Port Authority Police arrest first and let the DA deal with it. OTOH that boxer, he was staying in NYC, he wasn't covered by FOPA.

Personally if my understanding of the events were true, she would be the perfect test case for SAF or the NRA to slap down Port Authority Police on their automatic gun arrests. She is a youngish mom, with a husband in the military, pregnant at the time, and attempted to follow the law.


Ferrizzi’s stumble into New York’s legal system began March 16, when she and her daughter flew to New York City to visit her best friend, meet Ferrizzi’s husband and attend his sister’s wedding in Philadelphia.
I read this as "her best friend that lived in NYC", otherwise, why fly into NY when you're headed to Philadelphia?
I suppose the article is somewhat ambiguous on that.

I've heard it argued (by a TX lawyer, which I am not) that if you drive your car from your NYC residence, to a NYC airport, planning to fly to Texas, even though you are traveling from a place where you are legally allowed to have a gun, TO a place where you are legally allowed to have a gun, that the airport is considered a "destination" and therefore NOT covered as part of your "continuous journey" from your house to Texas. The airport would be considered a "planned stop". Now, I feel that's just plain BS, but, I'm not intending to test my opinion.

If I'm traveling from VA to NH via car, you can bet that I'm stopping only for gas and tolls. I'll bring a sandwich to eat and sleep when I'm in safe territory.

[RoyGBiv]

How are you driving from VA to NH without going through NY?
You can avoid NYC easily enough... Perhaps that's what he meant.?

Tough crowd.! :D

[Ed L]

I've heard it argued (by a TX lawyer, which I am not) that if you drive your car from your NYC residence, to a NYC airport, planning to fly to Texas, even though you are traveling from a place where you are legally allowed to have a gun, TO a place where you are legally allowed to have a gun, that the airport is considered a "destination" and therefore NOT covered as part of your "continuous journey" from your house to Texas. The airport would be considered a "planned stop". Now, I feel that's just plain BS, but, I'm not intending to test my opinion.

I certainly agree with the bolded part!

The problem is with regard to handguns in NY State that you need a permit to simply own a handgun. And they do not recognize any out of state permits to own or carry firearms.

To make matters worse, NY City issues its own permits and does not recognize NY State permits. The two main airports, Laguardia and JFK are inside of NYC. Technically you should be protected by the FOPA if you are travelling from your residence in NY State where you have a license for the handgun to another place where the handgun is legal. But NYC does not recognize FOPA. People have gone to trial and been founc not guilty or have got off with minor sentences, considering what they face. It would take a major lawsuit from someone wrongfully arrested to become case law to change things (or maybe someone with more legal knowledge than I have could comment).

Many years ago when I lived in NYC I would fly out with handguns all the time. At that time it was like checking guns at almost any other airport, which is done by the airline personnel. Sometimes they would ask to see my handgun permit; other times they wouldn't. However now whenever someone wants to check a handgun, the baggage check in person summons the Port Authority Police to check the handgun and the license.

Having said all of that, the people recently arrested who made the news were out of state people who were leaving from NYC or NY State, and checking in the handgun that they had brought to the state. Therefore they were not protected by the FOPA since the handgun was not legal where they had brought it and were leaving from.

I feel terrible for these people who get arrested for this, especially with the possible sentences they face. The legal penalties that they face are insane.

Most gun-aware people know that you don't try to bring a handgun into a state like NY or NJ or MA. But keep in mind some gunowners are as cognizant of gun issues as most of us are with toaster issues. Still, even if you are not gun-aware there have been some very high profile cases of people arrested in NYC for having an unlicensed gun under exactly these circumstances. There have even been cases of people who drove in from other states and tried to check their guns in at upstate NY airports who have been arrested. Technically they should have been protected by FOPA since they were making an uninterrupted journey from someplace where it is legal to another place where it is legal.

[jetfire]

Like Caleb's rules for avoiding trouble.

Might be prudent to add "Don't go to stupid places that have stupid laws".

I have spent a considerable amount of money to avoid connections in NYC in the past, and I still get the heebie jeebies when I have to connect through Chicago. Although I've not heard any tales of people getting hooked up at O'Hare for trying to check guns, it still makes me nervous.

[TGS]

Would FOPA cover standard capacity magazines when traveling through ban states?

[Ed L]

Would FOPA cover standard capacity magazines when traveling through ban states?

I'm not sure. But I do know that the state of NJ has arrested people who were travelling through the state who had magazines in excess of the state limit. In one case it was an M-1 carbine 30 round magazine.

I'm afraid that it is going to take a law suit by someone wrongly arrested to establish some sort of case law Hopefully someone with better legal knowledge will chime in and either correct or elaborate on what I wrote.

[RoyGBiv]

Would FOPA cover standard capacity magazines when traveling through ban states?

Again, the way I understand it is... If you are traveling (on a continuous journey) from a place where the firearm is legal to another place where the firearm is legal, then FOPA applies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act#.22Safe_Passage.22_p rovision
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A


Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

**** CAUTION *****
Even if FOPA applies, so does the GFSZA... If your FOPA journey passes by within 1000' of a school, which takes precedence?
Good luck. Be sure to let us know how that turns out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990#State_reciprocity_ag reements

Although the Federal GFSZA does provide an exception for an individual licensed to carry a firearm, this exception only applies in the State that physically issued the permit.

[TGS]

Again, the way I understand it is... If you are traveling (on a continuous journey) from a place where the firearm is legal to another place where the firearm is legal, then FOPA applies.

Right, I get that.......but I'm asking about magazines, not a firearm.

[Ed L]

Again, the way I understand it is... If you are traveling (on a continuous journey) from a place where the firearm is legal to another place where the firearm is legal, then FOPA applies.

I know it applies. The problem is NY State and NYC don't seem to recognize it. NJ doesn't seem to recognize it either. I don't know about MA, who also has strict gun laws. I'm afraid it is going to take a major law suit by someone someone wrongly arrested.

[RoyGBiv]

Right, I get that.......but I'm asking about magazines, not a firearm.

It appears that FOPA is silent on both magazines and ammunition (can you transport JHP through NJ?, for example).
Reasonable thought would have you keep magazines unloaded and in a locked container, same for ammo. But, reason doesn't apply in those jurisdictions.

Interesting discussion over here: http://forum.pafoa.org/national-11/123787-fopa-transport.html
Particularly the first paragraph of post #7 and post #13.

[Drang]

Personally if my understanding of the events were true, she would be the perfect test case for SAF or the NRA to slap down Port Authority Police on their automatic gun arrests. She is a youngish mom, with a husband in the military, pregnant at the time, and attempted to follow the law.

It is my understanding that there are multiple law suits pending against the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey on this subject.

[Odin Bravo One]

You can avoid NYC easily enough... Perhaps that's what he meant.?

Tough crowd.! :D

Yea.....NYC......sorry. While I know the laws are state-wide......having been to other parts of the state, it is easy to see that they don't all live in the same NY.

[TGS]

It appears that FOPA is silent on both magazines and ammunition (can you transport JHP through NJ?, for example).

FWIW, you can as they are not illegal to buy, own, possess, shoot or transport in NJ; a permit/license is required to buy them face-to-face from an in-state dealer, but not to buy online, own, possess, shoot or transport. The only way HPs are illegal in NJ is for carry with the exception of on/off-duty LEOs, including on/off-duty out-of-staters covered under 218, and with the exception of being carried for hunting.

[HCM]

Oh I understand that, but NYC airports are the airport of choice even for people not actually visiting the city, this story for example. Unless there is more to the story it sounds like she went from the airport to Philly, and straight back to the airport. So if that is true she should be would covered by FOPA, but Port Authority Police arrest first and let the DA deal with it. OTOH that boxer, he was staying in NYC, he wasn't covered by FOPA.

Personally if my understanding of the events were true, she would be the perfect test case for SAF or the NRA to slap down Port Authority Police on their automatic gun arrests. She is a youngish mom, with a husband in the military, pregnant at the time, and attempted to follow the law.

PPGMD is spot on about NYC airports serving as regional hubs. My understanding from the article regarding the mom was that she flew in and out of NY LaGuardia and took another mode of transportation to / from Philly. NYC and Philly are only 100 miles apart. Changing my mode of transportation should not nullify FOPA. If I recall correctly FOPA specifically provides for reasonable stops for rest, food, etc. I believe, turning in a rental car in order to board a commercial flight would be an example of a "reasonable" stop.

If the facts of the NYC / Philly travel support FOPA coverage, I agree this would be a great test case.

[Shellback]

More NY stupidity (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/04/n-y-dads-pistol-license-suspended-over-something-his-10-year-old-son-said-and-it-could-be-8-years-before-he-gets-it-back/).

N.Y. DAD’S PISTOL LICENSE SUSPENDED OVER SOMETHING HIS 10-YEAR-OLD SON SAID — AND IT COULD BE 8 YEARS BEFORE HE GETS IT BACK