They'll shoot a baby in the face [Archive]

TCinVA

03-26-2013, 07:47 AM

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/23/mother-of-baby-shot-dead-speaks-out-in-heartbreaking-interview-he-must-have-died-instantly/

“A boy approached me and told me he wanted my money and I told him I didn’t have any money and he said ‘give me your money or I’m gonna kill you and I’m going to shoot your baby.’”

West was shot in the ear, the bullet just grazing her skin, and in the leg above her knee.

“I thought it was a BB gun. It was a small gun, and then all of a sudden he walked over and he shot my baby right in the face,” West said. “He must have died instantly because I screamed for help and a neighbor to call the police, and he ran off — he got scared that I screamed.”

Bad men often don't obey laws of reason. There's really no reason to shoot a baby in the face...but that doesn't seem to stop people like De’Marquise Elkins.

How do friends of a person like this react to the news he shot a baby in the face on a public forum like Facebook?

1361

Government programs can't fix that, folks.

Kyle Reese

03-26-2013, 07:48 AM

Obviously just misunderstood, on the way to church, and in the process of turning their lives around, right?

RoyGBiv

03-26-2013, 08:05 AM

I wonder what Reverend Al thinks? Or Jesse?
Oh right.... The baby doesn't look like he could be Obama's son.... No need to fret about it.

Rest in Peace Antonio.

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/AP676958791030-620x418.jpg

Desmond82

03-26-2013, 08:21 AM

Care to give me a correlation between government programs and this incident ?!!

butler coach

03-26-2013, 09:03 AM

This shit breaks my heart!!!! Every time I read something like this I cannot help but think about my two boys. There is a special place in hell for people who do things like this.

Maple Syrup Actual

03-26-2013, 09:12 AM

Well, unless these kids don't attend state-funded schools, there's got to be some kind of correlation between government language programs and the appalling massacre they're committing against the English language. Their writing is an abomination! Good god.

I had to go slow and sound it out before I could work out if they were even saying anything that bothered me.

On the plus side, they seem to be embracing a degree of radical freedom ("that's the life he chose") and presumably won't be bothered if people take a similar approach to solving the problem that these undereducated thugs seem to present. Let's at least agree to a consistent position on face-shooting: the grammarless types featured above think it's okay to shoot random parents' babies; I think it's okay to shoot their parents' babies. That's a fair application of a consistent rule that they ought to be okay with, right?

And no doubt we won't hear any complaining from their friends or families if a bunch of them get shot, on account of the lives they chose?

All righty then. Problem seems eminently fixable, at least once the ammo crunch abates.

JMS

03-26-2013, 09:15 AM

Desmond, his last sentence has the same semantic content as having typed "Some people's kids, huh...?"

It was like the final part of the most recent argument I had with my boss: Immediately before I walked away from him, I rooted around in my trouser pocket while muttering "...wait, I've got something for you...coulda sword I just had it...aha, HERE it is....!!" and flipped him off as I pulled my hand out. Had precisely ZERO to so with the actual topic...but expressed certain strong feelings regarding the topic at hand.

There's the correlation....

We're talking about the callous, depraved murder of an infant by an iredeemable dreg of society. Expect some hyperbole.

TCinVA

03-26-2013, 10:26 AM

Care to give me a correlation between government programs and this incident ?!!

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that De’Marquise Elkins, most of his friends and many members of his family have been the target of various government efforts at assistance and education. The sort of programs that are billed to keep people from acts like...well...shooting children in the face. The behavior of Mr. Elkins himself and the comments of his friends seem to indicate that they aren't really having the impact we would like in terms of making people not OK with shooting children in the face.

I submit that there is no government program that can fix this level of depravity.

There's a certain mindset at work here that is durable...immune from well-meaning interference by outsiders. Mr. Elkins grew up in a culture that nurtures this sort of behavior, that excuses it when it occurs, and that responds to inquiries about basic human decency with the barely-intelligible scribe listed above. If one of my friends walked up to a 13 month old in a stroller and shot the little tike in the face, I don't know for sure how I'd react...but I certainly wouldn't be on facebook saying "***CENSORED*** that baby". None of my friends are really capable of such an act in the first place...if I thought they were then we really couldn't hang...but you get the point.

You cannot help Mr. Elkins, as all the failed efforts to do precisely that have demonstrated. At best, you can protect the rest of society from Mr. Elkins and those like him by locking them up or, if necessary, with some degree of physical force.

There are lots of people like Mr. Elkins out there walking around breathing free air. You may encounter one. If you do, understand what it is you are dealing with and react accordingly.

Do not rest your hopes for survival on the rational behavior or moral recognizance of evil men.

BaiHu

03-26-2013, 10:33 AM

Care to give me a correlation between government programs and this incident ?!!

My guess is you thought gov't programs was a code word for a racist remark?

If so, I'd say that the gov't programs, that are supposed to 'stop the violence', 'stop the homeless', 'stop the drugs', 'stop the poverty', 'stop the ignorance' and 'stop the hungry' initiatives haven't done a damn thing.

That being said, no gov't program can stop:

...the callous, depraved murder of an infant by an iredeemable dreg of society....

ETA: As TC said...we were typing at the same time ;(

Gary1911A1

03-26-2013, 10:39 AM

We all know what should happen to these two thugs.

BaiHu

03-26-2013, 10:44 AM

We all know what should happen to these two thugs.

Sadly, what will happen is probably the 'r' word: recidivism.

joshs

03-26-2013, 11:03 AM

Sadly, what will happen is probably the 'r' word: recidivism.

I'm not so sure. If convicted of first degree murder, the best sentence he could hope for is Life with the possibility of parole in 25 years.

jetfire

03-26-2013, 11:06 AM

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that De’Marquise Elkins, most of his friends and many members of his family have been the target of various government efforts at assistance and education.

That's a pretty sturdy limb, bro. Like...a whole tree.

MDS

03-26-2013, 11:08 AM

That's a pretty sturdy limb, bro. Like...a whole tree.

Bro, I would have sworn that nothing in this thread could make me laugh.

TCinVA

03-26-2013, 11:10 AM

I'm not so sure. If convicted of first degree murder, the best sentence he could hope for is Life with the possibility of parole in 25 years.

I would hope that a 17 year old who deliberately executes a small child in a stroller would be tried as an adult.

TGS

03-26-2013, 11:16 AM

How do friends of a person like this react to the news he shot a baby in the face on a public forum like Facebook?

Looks like they both have kids, too.

BigT

03-26-2013, 11:20 AM

The demon, send it back to hell.

Shellback

03-26-2013, 11:31 AM

I have a hard time fathoming how someone can sink to that level of depravity and callousness. I sincerely hope that the inmates, in whatever facility they're housed in, treat them as they would a child molester. I'm not that well versed in the "prison code of justice" but I do know that people who commit crimes against children are often treated to a special kind of prison justice.

Le Français

03-26-2013, 11:35 AM

I'm not so sure. If convicted of first degree murder, the best sentence he could hope for is Life with the possibility of parole in 25 years.

You're implying that criminal acts that occur while the actor is incarcerated do not count as recidivism. I think that they do, and, while the pool of possible victims is theoretically limited to fellow inmates and staff at the facility, I don't think we should imply that their victimization somehow doesn't matter. (I understand that you likely were not trying to imply any such thing.)

joshs

03-26-2013, 11:45 AM

I think that they do, and, while the pool of possible victims is theoretically limited to fellow inmates and staff at the facility, I don't think we should imply that their victimization somehow doesn't matter. (I understand that you likely were not trying to imply any such thing.)

I agree. I think that this is one of the better justifications for capital punishment. Although capital punishment will not be available in this case even though he has been charged as an adult because our "evolving national standards" do not permit capital punishment of a 17 year old.

BaiHu

03-26-2013, 11:58 AM

I'll still guess this guy will be up for parole before my kids go to high school (no kids yet ;)). As you stated we have an "ever evolving" system that finds a myriad of excuses for some of the worst of society's transgressors.

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TCinVA

03-26-2013, 12:00 PM

I agree. I think that this is one of the better justifications for capital punishment. Although capital punishment will not be available in this case even though he has been charged as an adult because our "evolving national standards" do not permit capital punishment of a 17 year old.

When we're too civilized to kill a dude who executed a 13 month old in a stroller, maybe we're just a tad too civilized, IMO.

treat them as they would a child molester.

People's notion of prison justice is often quite inflated. There is violence in prison because of the sort of people housed in it, but that violence is usually prompted by the same sorts of things that prompts it on the street: Money, contraband, turf, the law of the jungle, and good-old-fashioned anti-social tendencies.

Every now and then somebody who molests a kid does get knifed...but I'd posit the theory that they'd get shanked anyway sooner or later.

The 17 year old who shoots a baby in the face is going to get locked up with people who are just as depraved and indifferent to innocent life as he is. He may even get some cred for "keeping it real" by victimizing white people.

It would be comforting to think that even the people we lock up would find this act abhorrent, but they won't. To a sociopath, what happened to that baby was the mother's fault for not giving up the cash.

Corlissimo

03-26-2013, 12:01 PM

TCinVA

03-26-2013, 12:07 PM

And that, to me, is a big part of the problem as well. These "kids" commit heinous crimes knowing that the likelihood of them paying any real price for their acts is low

I think you're giving them too much credit in terms of strategic planning.

If the penalty was that somebody would show up on scene right away and put two between his eyes, sure...that might have made a dent. Other than that, I don't think the array of options in our legal system would have been anywhere in his mind when committing the act.

I'll gladly defer to the expertise of those on this board who really know criminals if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell there was no rational thought to this. There was no "eh, I probably won't get in any real trouble if I shoot this kid" inner monologue. There was just violence...a reflex action, as impulsive as it is repulsive.

Desmond82

03-26-2013, 12:07 PM

Work nights will respond when I get up

NickA

03-26-2013, 01:28 PM

Aaand now the suspect's mother and aunt have been arrested, for making false statements to the police.
http://us.cnn.com/2013/03/26/justice/georgia-brunswick-baby-killing/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Also they've found a gun and are testing to see if it's the murder weapon.

TGS

03-26-2013, 01:33 PM

Wow, this is her second child to be murdered.

That is rough.

BaiHu

03-26-2013, 01:36 PM

Wow, this is her second child to be murdered.

That is rough.

Okay, so maybe now I agree with joshs-it'll be 25 to life....yeessh!! Poor woman.

Shellback

03-26-2013, 01:47 PM

People's notion of prison justice is often quite inflated...

As usual, some very valid points. However, I'm pretty sure, for the right price, justice can be bought and paid for if someone were so inclined.

CCT125US

03-26-2013, 01:53 PM

I would like to propose a test. It would be a 1 question test. Perhaps something like "Are you ok with shooting a baby in the face?" If yes, proceed to step 2..... instructions for step 2 being "Please look down this rifled tube, smile and wait for flash"

NickA

03-26-2013, 01:55 PM

Corlissimo

03-26-2013, 03:01 PM

I think you're giving them too much credit in terms of strategic planning.

If the penalty was that somebody would show up on scene right away and put two between his eyes, sure...that might have made a dent. Other than that, I don't think the array of options in our legal system would have been anywhere in his mind when committing the act.

I'll gladly defer to the expertise of those on this board who really know criminals if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell there was no rational thought to this. There was no "eh, I probably won't get in any real trouble if I shoot this kid" inner monologue. There was just violence...a reflex action, as impulsive as it is repulsive.

Oh, I agree completely. My point was aimed more towards the idea that this way of thinking is ingrained by the life they live out on the streets. With that lifestyle comes the "value system" of thuggery. It's no secret that dealers like to use younger children to do their dirty work & dealing, since they typically get lighter sentences if caught, so any kid raised on that mentality likely has adopted the same rationale, albeit subconsciously.

At least, that's my understanding of it. I could be wrong, but right or wrong, it doesn't change the depravity of Elkin's actions.

~ Typos brought to you by my laziness & in attention to detail.

Odin Bravo One

03-26-2013, 03:52 PM

I
I submit that there is no government program that can fix this level of depravity.

Oh there is...........

But even Holder doesn't have the balls to try to explain it away once it gets used.

Shellback

03-26-2013, 03:57 PM

http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/demarquis-elkins.jpg?w=500

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8524/8581877370_859c05ecfa_b.jpg

From his facebook page.

http://topconservativenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/obamason.jpg

http://bazaardailynews.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/demar4.jpg?w=812

http://rabidrepublicanblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Elkins-in-2010.jpg

Gary1911A1

03-26-2013, 04:55 PM

I'm retired from Corrections. At one time a child molester might not of been safe in General Population unless they had a "Man" looking out for them, but times have changed and child molesters move around in GP without any problems as long as they keep the inmate code like any other inmate. I predict sadly nothing will happen to these two POS in prison.

Tamara

03-26-2013, 08:24 PM

Don't know what to make of this:
www.firstcoastnews.com/brunswicktoddlermurder/article/305674/634/Daughter-of-Brunswick-victim-questions-mothers-story
Daughter is questioning the mother's story, says she's bipolar with schizophrenic tendencies.
And it seems her other son may or may not have been killed in self defense :
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/topstories/article/305027/483/Slain-babys-mother-loses-2-sons-to-violence

Just some sad, sad stuff all around.

Something seemed off about her affect in the interviews she gave the press. I've been more bent out of shape when my cat got out of the house. I'm doubtful we'll ever have the whole story.

On the other hand, I'm not too worried about miscarriage of justice in this case; perusal of the alleged perpetrator's public data, if it truly is his, has me pretty sold on the idea that air should be illegal if he breathes it. If he didn't actually do this, odds are pretty good that he has done or will do something else for which he deserves to be in the pokey and just hasn't been caught yet. This is why I would not be a good goddess-empress of the universe.

Chuck Haggard

03-26-2013, 08:29 PM

Mom being mentally ill doesn't preclude said scumbags from having murdered this baby.

Mentally ill people are victimized at a higher rate than the average person in my observation.

Tamara

03-26-2013, 08:49 PM

Mom being mentally ill doesn't preclude said scumbags from having murdered this baby.

Didn't say it did. Just said that my hunch is that it didn't go down the way she told the story to the camera, which tripped my totally non-scientific, hunch-based fib detector.

Whether it was a stickup or a dope deal gone bad or whatever, the end result is the same, and wouldn't have much effect on my thinking if I were in the jury box. Which is why I'm probably never going to be in a jury box.

Dan_S

03-26-2013, 09:16 PM

Didn't say it did. Just said that my hunch is that it didn't go down the way she told the story to the camera, which tripped my totally non-scientific, hunch-based fib detector.

Whether it was a stickup or a dope deal gone bad or whatever, the end result is the same, and wouldn't have much effect on my thinking if I were in the jury box. Which is why I'm probably never going to be in a jury box.

I don't really care if it was a dope deal gone bad, or anything else.

For the life of me, I can't see what justification De'whatever-his-name-is for shooting a small child. Period. End of story.

Just when I start to seriously question the morality of the death penalty, I hear about this...and suddenly, my faith in capital punishment returns....

Chuck Haggard

03-26-2013, 09:30 PM

Tamara

03-26-2013, 09:53 PM

I don't really care if it was a dope deal gone bad, or anything else.

Gosh, it's almost as though I just said that.

Just when I start to seriously question the morality of the death penalty, I hear about this...and suddenly, my faith in capital punishment returns...

I have no problems with the dude dying for this. If he did it. Funny how many conservatives don't trust the government to be fair, just, or even competent when it comes to enforcing gun laws, delivering the mail, or distributing health care, but suddenly they're infallable paragons of virtue when it comes to strapping the right ne'er-do-well in the chair.

BaiHu

03-26-2013, 10:17 PM

Gosh, it's almost as though I just said that.

I have no problems with the dude dying for this. If he did it. Funny how many conservatives don't trust the government to be fair, just, or even competent when it comes to enforcing gun laws, delivering the mail, or distributing health care, but suddenly they're infallable paragons of virtue when it comes to strapping the right ne'er-do-well in the chair.

You make a great point here about the death penalty, but I'd guess most of us would rather be tried "by 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty" than governed by 535 too duplicitous to trust them to watch the sands of time fall :D

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Odin Bravo One

03-26-2013, 11:17 PM

Funny how many conservatives don't trust the government to be fair, just, or even competent when it comes to enforcing gun laws, delivering the mail, or distributing health care, but suddenly they're infallable paragons of virtue when it comes to strapping the right ne'er-do-well in the chair.

I'm not a fan of the death penalty.

And my views are generally considered to be on the "conservative" side.

JAD

03-27-2013, 04:59 PM

his is why I would not be a good goddess-empress of the universe.
-- You aren't? What the hell am I supposed to with this shrine?

NETim

03-27-2013, 05:18 PM

-- You aren't? What the hell am I supposed to with this shrine?

HA!

Nephrology

03-27-2013, 06:26 PM

The colors he is wearing in his photos and the "writing" employed by his friends (replacing Cs with Ks and Bs) is evidence that the shooter in question is a member of the Bloods, or some local set affiliated with the bloods.

Here's to hoping he wanders onto the blue side of the yard in the pokey. Or, better yet, he is magically transported back in time 500 years and is drawn and quartered.

TCinVA

03-27-2013, 10:11 PM

I'm not a fan of the death penalty.

And my views are generally considered to be on the "conservative" side.

I'm a big fan of the concept of some people getting zapped. Like Harry Calahan once said, I don't mind shooting...as long as the right people get shot.

Trouble is that like any power granted to the state, it becomes problematic in its implementation. (If men were governed by angels, etc) In just the last few years there have been high profile oopsies in the criminal justice system, like NYPD detectives planting evidence (probably largely on people who were guilty of something anyway, but still), crime lab personnel deliberately producing false results in forensic testing, and federal agents trying to stick a child porn conviction on a guy when it turns out the supposed child in the video was actually a legal adult actress. Then there's the growing question of how much of what the general public considers forensic science is actually science...etc.

Lots of room for uneasiness with the death penalty from the conservative side of the house...not just the special snowflake theorists. On the plus side, most of the people we sentence to death die of natural causes before the state can execute them...

I'm a fan of having the death penalty...but I'm also kind of glad it's staunchly opposed, too.

Tamara

03-27-2013, 10:42 PM

I'll just leave this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hayne) here.

LHS

03-27-2013, 11:37 PM

I'll just leave this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hayne) here.

That's the problem with the death penalty, no doubt. There are certainly folks who deserve the needle post haste (the nutjob who shot Giffords, the nutjob who shot up the movie theater in Aurora, etc), but in the grand scheme of things they're few and far between. Everything else has room for error. As such, I'm not opposed to the death penalty per se, but I am very leery of how we implement it.

NickA

03-28-2013, 06:30 AM

Not a death penalty case, but just heard this one on the radio: man is convicted of killing his wife, has been in prison the last 25 years. New evidence comes to light and he's set free, the real killer is convicted. The fun part? The real killer will be eligible for parole in 15 years.

Tamara

03-28-2013, 07:32 AM

man is convicted of killing his wife, has been in prison the last 25 years. New evidence comes to light and he's set free, the real killer is convicted. The fun part? The real killer will be eligible for parole in 15 years.

If I roll those two numbers around in my head too long, I'm liable to get a real mad on.

TCinVA

03-28-2013, 09:00 AM

Tamara

03-28-2013, 09:33 AM

Personally, I think the best time for a ne'er-do-well to get his ticket punched is during his criminal act.

The intended victim is the one person in the whole affair who can be most certain that he's got the Right Guy.

Shellback

03-28-2013, 10:45 AM

I'll just leave this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hayne) here.

This news report (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/sfl-anthony-caravella-jury-finds-two-officer-liable-20130326,0,7821815.story) just came out today. He has been awarded $7 million in damages.
The jury in the Anthony Caravella civil lawsuit decided two of the four officers are liable for framing the mentally challenged 15-year-old for the 1983 rape and murder of a Miramar woman, condemning him to maximum security prisons for close to 26 years until DNA set him free in 2009... Both men acted with malice or reckless indifference to Caravella, violated his constitutional right against malicious prosecution and coerced him into confessing, the jurors decided... He was awarded $7 million in damages.

I read this report (http://www.baltimorebrew.com/2013/03/19/city-to-pay-man-150000-for-false-imprisonment/) last week and it struck a chord as well.

An innocent man imprisoned for seven months by Baltimore police on the basis of his reputed nickname will be awarded $150,000 to settle his lawsuit.

The Board of Estimates is set to pay the sum tomorrow to Darren Brown, who charged four police officers with acting “with deliberate and/or reckless disregard for the truth” while conducting an investigation of an August 2008 shooting at a Chinese carry-out on Harford Rd.

I'll stop posting examples but I will say this happens a lot more frequently than it should.

Ray Keith

03-28-2013, 02:41 PM

I'll just leave this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hayne) here.

The Texas exploits of Richard Koons, George Denkowski, Walter Quijano and their ilk are legendary. Decent people have no idea what is being done in their name.

LOKNLOD

03-28-2013, 02:58 PM

Personally, I think the best time for a ne'er-do-well to get his ticket punched is during his criminal act. After all, there's no confusion about his guilt when his intended victim splits his skull with a hollowpoint before he can complete his violent act.

Agree, as long as we don't then take the deferred cost and spend it by making the defender prove it was a good shoot...