View Full Version : Beretta 92 FS Compact (and general Beretta love lately)
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Seems everywhere I look (slight exaggeration), folks are talking about Beretta pistols. I see an Elite II going for crazy prices on GunBroker, and lots of mention of this new 92FS Compact.
What gives?
shootist26
03-17-2013, 06:29 PM
Seems everywhere I look (slight exaggeration), folks are talking about Beretta pistols. I see an Elite II going for crazy prices on GunBroker, and lots of mention of this new 92FS Compact.
What gives?
what gives is that Beretta used to make great pistols (basically any -G config 92 version) and they stopped. So they are obviously very expensive and in demand.
As for the M9A1 Compact, I don't really know. I guess maybe people just want to see something new.
If it's between a non G Beretta and a Sig, I'll take the Sig every time.
this Elite is at $1,525 with 4 days left to run on the auction:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=332801377
orionz06
03-17-2013, 06:50 PM
Holy shit! I have had a customers for some time now to make an AIWB and thought it was some goofy 2-tone Beretta from the late 90's that no one liked or cared for.
Tamara
03-17-2013, 07:09 PM
Holy shit! I have had a customers for some time now to make an AIWB and thought it was some goofy 2-tone Beretta from the late 90's that no one liked or cared for.
They're about as cult-y as a Beretta gets, dude.
LittleLebowski
03-18-2013, 08:36 AM
I've been pondering one of the nice Berettas for a little bit; comments like JV's above and reading about GJM's re-discovery of the Sig keep me from spending money.
1986s4
03-18-2013, 08:39 AM
Count me as one of those nuts who doesn't mind the safety on a FS Beretta. I have longish thumbs and I train to off safe when I draw, much like a 1911 thumb safety. That said I use my G model the most...
comments like JV's aboveHere's my thought: I don't want a manual safety on the hammer fired DA/SA, especially one that's difficult for me to reach. Other than the super smooth slide to frame feel, what does the 92 do better than a 226? For me, nothing. Since all of the regular Sigs are G/"decock only", and their readily available, it's a no brainier.
Also, with the E2 grips, I can more easily reach the mag release than on a 92.
TCinVA
03-18-2013, 09:58 AM
For me, the Beretta has always fit my hands better than the Sig. I can use all the controls and I don't neuter the slide release when I grip the pistol.
I'm not sure why the Beretta is suddenly gaining favor again. The Beretta 92 was the first handgun I ever purchased, largely because I'd been fantasizing about it since I first encountered the Die Hard and Lethal Weapon franchises. I mean, if you can't watch that scene where John McClane wastes all those bad guys in the airport (who had just efficiently wiped out an entire SWAT team, but couldn't kill one guy armed with a pistol for some reason) with the 92 without feeling at least some bite from the cool factor, then there's no light in your soul.
Shortly after finding out people talked about guns on the internet, I was treated to all kinds of stories about how the Beretta 92 shattered like plate glass if you fired more than X rounds through it. Or how it beheaded like 4 dozen SEAL operators when slides broke. Etc. I got so intrigued I actually started looking for documentation of all these horrors and found that the situation wasn't quite what the internet said it would be. (Shocker) So I wrote a little ditty about it.
The myth of the plate-glass Beretta seemed to die down a bit, and once the military stopped using Checkmate mags the furor seemed to die down.
If they are experiencing a resurgence in popularity, possible explanations would be:
- After a few incidents where somebody has managed to injure (or in some cases even kill) themselves with a striker fired handgun that has a ~ 5 pound trigger and no safety, some people are beginning to think that there really is more to this safety thing than boogerhook and bangswitch.
- Potentially being bored with Glocks.
- A sort of hipster retro-cool cache attached to a much maligned pistol
- Belated recognition that they really were pretty darn good guns
this Elite is at $1,525 with 4 days left to run on the auction:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=332801377
When I was heavy into Berettas, that was one of the pimp-daddy, gotta-have-it Beretta options. I actually have a Gen I Elite, but I got into the 1911 black hole before I could snag an Elite II.
The holy grail was:
1349
Steel frame, frame-mounted safety, do want.
tremiles
03-18-2013, 10:31 AM
The holy grail was:
1349
Steel frame, frame-mounted safety, do want.
I'll be in my bunk.
I came to the Beretta after growing up with the 1911, and it was primarily an economy thing. I got my first Beretta for a steal of a deal, and 9mm was a heck of a lot cheaper than .45 when I was a poor college student. Eventually, I found that the much maligned DA trigger wasn't all that bad with a proper tune-up, the gun ran more reliably than most of my 1911s, and the G-model controls made the safety a non-issue.
Over the years I've looked at other designs, but the Sig doesn't fit my hand well (and lately QC issues have me completely turned off from them), the HK, Walther and M&P lines are too expensive for a complete switchover compared to any theoretical performance gains I might or might not acquire, Glocks have that silly grip angle and XDs have a bad reputation for reliability/durability.
I wish I had another Elite I. They really are outstanding guns, though holster options are getting harder and harder to find. I was lucky enough to get an MTAC before they stopped offering them for the Brigadier-slide 92s, and I still have a late-90s-vintage Blade Tech belt holster for IDPA/IPSC.
Suvorov
03-18-2013, 10:53 AM
To add my thoughts to TCinVA as always excellent post.
I first started shooting them when I joined the National Guard in college and shot on the marksmanship team there. I then became a tanker so it was my assigned personal weapon for the rest of my Army career. I liked it the first time I shot it, and I have continued to like it ever since. While I (against the advise of the learned members of this forum) tend to stray to other platforms year to year, and while my current issued gun is a LEM, the Beretta is to me, the "Alpha" of pistols. It is the one that I am most comfortable with, it is the one that I shoot best, and it is the one that makes me feel warm inside. The added bonus for me is that in the mid-90s, I was able to score quite a few standard capacity magazines and collect key replacement parts, so I have a large support system for the platform, which has been helpful in ban states. I have never had any problem with the slide mounted safety though I do prefer the G variant for its simplicity factor.
The Beretta 92 platform has done everything for me I could ask for. I have heard all the stories, lived through the check mate disaster, and having been responsible for a armor company's worth of M9s, have seen how they are cared for by US Army "armorers", and based on my experience which is limited compared to many, but a lot greater than most shooters, the M9 has proven to be a superbly reliable and dependable gun when properly cared for and supplied with quality magazines. To counter a previous post, while I am a fan of Sigs and have been "dating" a SP2022 for the last 2 years, there is nothing a Sig can do (or an HK for that matter) that a Beretta can't do just as well for me.
As for the resurgence in popularity, I think the fact that a lot of troops are coming back and looking wanting to buy the gun they carried is a big factor. While the "gun guy" vets will probably gravitate to glocks and HKs, most vets are not gun guys and will simply buy what they know. Also, there is probably a good sized portion of the civilian population that wants what the .mil has for no other reason than that. The gun is still widely seen in Hollywood productions and in a world of blocky guns, the Beretta is a sexy girl.
ffhounddog
03-18-2013, 06:05 PM
I have shot a lot of rounds out of a Beretta and it is a gun I wish I had never gotten rid of. It is like the M4, I have played with a SCAR, ACR, and other 5.56 rifles and I still grab the M4 over any other rifle. It is what I am comfortable with. The gun I lusted for was a 92FS Centurian for a long time and never could find one.
Just ordered a Beretta 92FS Police Special myself. NIB w/3 15rd mags.
I totally get the love, even though the trigger reach makes it a non gun for me. My friends all based their firearms purchases on The Killer* and Die Hard, and so I've put a lot of rounds through 92s. Bill Wilson *really* likes them, and so do a lot of very knowledgeable people. If I ever stumble across the single stack I may succumb.
*for me, it was 'Hardboiled,' but I fortunately have been able to resist the urge to buy a couple of Toks.
Clyde from Carolina
03-18-2013, 07:54 PM
Just ordered a Beretta 92FS Police Special myself. NIB w/3 15rd mags.
My first duty gun, and one I bought when we transitioned to H&Ks. Probably still tops of my all-time love list of personally-owned guns. It just works and fits my hand well. I remember reading Walt Rauch's book years ago and he said something like your best gun was the one you found yourself reaching for when you thought you might need a gun. For a long time, that was my trusty Beretta 92.
I had a conversation with Bill Rogers a month or so ago, where he was telling me how the Sig 226 was his favorite pistol. And, he said the only pistol he shot better, was a Beretta!
Clyde from Carolina
03-18-2013, 09:26 PM
I had a conversation with Bill Rogers a month or so ago, where he was telling me how the Sig 226 was his favorite pistol. And, he said the only pistol he shot better, was a Beretta!
Wow, I love that. :D
David B.
03-18-2013, 10:42 PM
Here's my thought: I don't want a manual safety on the hammer fired DA/SA, especially one that's difficult for me to reach. Other than the super smooth slide to frame feel, what does the 92 do better than a 226? For me, nothing. Since all of the regular Sigs are G/"decock only", and their readily available, it's a no brainier.
Also, with the E2 grips, I can more easily reach the mag release than on a 92.
Two simple solutions for that.
1. Josh's (AGW) low profile safety lever. This lever is really for just using to decock and that's it. It makes the slide almost totally smooth and you'll never accidentally engage the safety with it. The only advantage a G has over this is one less step on the range since it automatically goes back to the fire ready position. Actually, if it was a choice between this lever and a G model, I'd rather have this lever. Now the ideal would be a G model with this lever.
2. An extended (E2) mag catch. I've actually been using the extended oversized mag catch and I don't even have to break my grip at all to drop the mag.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/Apostolos/ccr910_zps70d66cbe.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/Apostolos/mag_zps90c068d4.jpg
I've owned a Sig 225, 220, and 226 (the 226 had 15k+ rounds through it before sold it, remember the crazy rattle it had?), and nothing feels as smooth and slick as a Beretta. Also, in my limited experience, nothing I've tried has ever been as reliable as a Beretta. Also, nothing looks as good as Beretta. :)
God Bless,
David
So what pistol would you get as a base gun to send to AGW?
Up1911Fan
03-18-2013, 11:43 PM
Considering he can convert a FS to G i've been thinking of an M9A1.
David B.
03-19-2013, 12:35 AM
So what pistol would you get as a base gun to send to AGW?
My personal opinion is a full-size aluminum framed Beretta.
I don't have any problem CCWing with a full-size Beretta so I don't see the point in the compacts.
Then you've got to decide if you want something that's current production or an overpriced discontinued model. Personally, I'd opt for a current production model.
Then you've got to decide which model, i.e, rail or no rail, dovetailed or integral front sight, flared or non-flared mag well, checkered or serrated front and back-straps, etc.
Again, personally, I like the slide and frame refinements of the 92A1. The only thing the frame lacks is a flared mag well. My choices in order of preference are:
92A1 - Most updated frame and slide design.
M9A1 - Older frame design, but has flared mag well and front and back-strap checkering.
92FS - No rail and integral front sight, but I'd still be happy with one. Lots of holster options.
Once you get your gun, Josh can do almost anything you want to it, that's when the fun begins.
God Bless,
David
Two simple solutions for that.
1. Josh's (AGW) low profile safety lever....
Yea, but the Sig maintains factory support since it was built "correctly" from the start. I don't know how the modified safety would impacts those that shoot gun games.
I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable saying you'll never accidentally engage it, I want my draw to disengage it (or try to) - whether it was supposed to be on or not. Making it a low profile lever just makes that harder since I can't reach the OEM one anyway.
remember the crazy rattle it had?),Oh yes. It was bad.
David B.
03-19-2013, 12:08 PM
I don't know how the modified safety would impacts those that shoot gun games.
This is something that needs to be considered. Philosophical ideas come into play.
I know I'm never going to be a national competitor. I don't know if I possess the proper DNA and I certainly don't want to put the time, money, and effort into training like that. So I do some local club matches both sanctioned and non-sanctioned USPSA just for the fun of it and to improve my skills.
My modifications, i.e., speed-bump trigger, extended mag release, etc., preclude me from production division. Therefore I have to shoot in limited division. Obviously this puts me at a competitive disadvantage shooting both minor power factor and with a gun that really belongs in production division. Fellow competitors often marvel at the choice I make and don't quite understand it.
I can easily take the mods out and replace them with stock parts and my performance wouldn't diminish much if any at all. However, the modifications I have give me optimal ergonomics and makes what I do with the pistol a little easier.
So philosophy number 1 is that I'm willing to use aftermarket parts even though there isn't a significant performance benefit, but because they feel better in my hands they are on the gun.
Philosophy number 2 is that I CCW with the same gun I train and compete with. Therefore I will sacrifice the competitive "fairness" component in favor of doing everything with the same gun. At the end of the day it's more important for me to have the confidence and competence with my carry gun than be concerned about whether a charlie is worth 3 or 4 points.
These are the mods I've done to my 92A1:
Cut to 4.7" and re-crowned barrel by Josh at AGW
AGW Speed-bump trigger
AGW Low profile custom carry safety /decock lever.
Steve Bedair stainless guide rod.
E2 extended mag catch.
E2 skeletonized hammer and D spring.
Aluminum flush hammer spring cap and dog bone pin
Dawson Fiber Optic front and Novak Custom rear sight. (.270 high and .155 wide).
Custom (by me) reshaped and stippled vertec grips.
CCR CPII plated slide and barrel.
Trigger job (by me).
That last thing I'm going to do is have Josh flare the mag well in the next month or so.
God Bless,
David
Suvorov
03-19-2013, 12:41 PM
Forgive my ignorance but what is the speed bump trigger?
Forgive my ignorance but what is the speed bump trigger?A trigger that limits overtravel, but not with a screw. It has a little bump on the back that is filed to fit.
Forgive my ignorance but what is the speed bump trigger?
A little bit of awesome. I have one of the old LTT speed bumps on my Elite, and it makes a small but noticeable difference.
Given my recently found love for TDA pistols with metal frames, this thread is a problem.
NickA
03-19-2013, 04:11 PM
Given my recently found love for TDA pistols with metal frames, this thread is a problem.
+1.
Threads like this is why I can't have money.
+1.
Threads like this is why I can't have money.
No kidding. I just sold a buddy a shotgun, and today "re-invested" that money into a mint Beretta 92G that I snagged off GunBroker.
David B.
03-19-2013, 07:51 PM
No kidding. I just sold a buddy a shotgun, and today "re-invested" that money into a mint Beretta 92G that I snagged off GunBroker.
Congrats on the purchase. Looking forward to your thoughts after owning it.
God Bless,
David
Here it is:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=333150331
What should I do to it? Allegheny for the work?
Here it is:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=333150331
What should I do to it? Allegheny for the work?
Shoot it!
Perhaps you'll find it perfect as is.
David B.
03-19-2013, 10:20 PM
Here it is:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=333150331
What should I do to it? Allegheny for the work?
That's a nice Beretta. It's an older model with the straight dustcover and non-radiused back-strap. I've always liked the straight dustcover look.
The first thing you should do even before shooting it is get a D spring from Brownells. It's a hammer spring made for DAO (D models), but has also been incorporated into other models and works well with the skeletonized hammer, which is the same weight as a D model hammer.
The D hammer spring will reduce your trigger pull by a few pounds. It really is a must since the stock spring comes with an 11-12lb DA pull.
Other than that, just shoot it and see what you like and don't like about it.
God Bless,
David
jumpthestack
03-20-2013, 12:51 AM
Speaking of Berettas, am I correct in thinking that it's considered acceptable to carry one off safe, hammer down? Because there's a long heavy double action pull anyways and the safety just gets in the way. I was carrying one this way during a recent class and a few people told me my gun was off safe and it was getting tiresome to explain the whole situation to them. The instructor didn't say anything about it.
Is there some strategy to make it clear that it's off safe on purpose so people don't bug me about it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTalnzcO0xk
Sure is considered acceptable, however something to consider would be to sweep the safety regardless in case it clicks on inadvertently. I personally think it's a liability, and if I had known about AGW doing FS>G conversions I would most likely still own my Beretta 92.
TCinVA
03-20-2013, 09:27 AM
Speaking of Berettas, am I correct in thinking that it's considered acceptable to carry one off safe, hammer down?
Yes, it's perfectly acceptable. Lots of PD's carried the 92 that way.
I was carrying one this way during a recent class and a few people told me my gun was off safe and it was getting tiresome to explain the whole situation to them.
...I assume that at least some of these people were packing Glocks or similar weapons, yes?
Smile and nod, my friend. Smile and nod.
The instructor didn't say anything about it.
Then at least he/she knew what they were doing.
Is there some strategy to make it clear that it's off safe on purpose so people don't bug me about it?
There's a way to smile politely and answer "Yes" to the question of "do you know your safety is off?" that communicates "I do, and I'm not interested in explaining to you why." At least I think I've been polite when I've done it. Others may have thought I was being a jerk.
ST911
03-20-2013, 10:09 AM
LE context here.
I never utilized or advocated use of the manual safety except in areas of increased likelihood of a gun grab on an exposed gun, and obviously where regs required it. Otherwise, the safety was to be kept in the off position. Officers are taught to sweep the safety on presentation and in handling to ensure that the safety remains off. I recommend and prefer decock-only (G) variants of Berettas and similar pistols for that context of use.
breakingtime91
03-20-2013, 10:10 AM
Just picked up a 92fs stainless(not inox) about a week ago. I carry mine off safe and I guess if someone asks I'll just tell them it's a decocker. I don't really see the saftey as a liability, I had a situation where I forgot to flip it back up and I got a dead trigger, added about .3 to my press out/first shot. I know to some people that bothers them but .3 is pretty acceptable for the shoot ability/ how much I like this pistol. Having said that I am also sending it in to Josh to get a few things done including having him putting his low profile safety in. I think the biggest problem I'm having right now transitioning from a glock is the reloads, driving a magazine into a polymer frame is a little more forgiving that a metal frame.
Suvorov
03-20-2013, 10:18 AM
Speaking of Berettas, am I correct in thinking that it's considered acceptable to carry one off safe, hammer down? Because there's a long heavy double action pull anyways and the safety just gets in the way. I was carrying one this way during a recent class and a few people told me my gun was off safe and it was getting tiresome to explain the whole situation to them. The instructor didn't say anything about it.
Is there some strategy to make it clear that it's off safe on purpose so people don't bug me about it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTalnzcO0xk
Were there a lot of .mil guys in the class?
Most units I have been around (who are of course commanded by officers and senior NCOs who are not gun guys and only care about covering their butts) will require soldiers to carry the M9 with the safety on. As you and others mentioned, the Beretta is more than safe with hammer down and safety off on a loaded chamber. Most PDs (LAPD and LA Sheriff) have long since abandoned the need to keep the safety on when carrying the gun as well as .mil units that have "enlightened leadership."
Next time you encounter this ignorance you could either just set them straight, tell them this is how LAPD does it, or simply tell them it is a "G" model that is docock only.
About the safety, it is kind of ironic that the Army tends to be so adamant about carrying the gun with safety on. Recently I was reading about the M9 trials and one of the gigs against the Beretta entry was that the Army thought the safety/decock to be redundant and preferred the Sig in this regard.
Suvorov
03-20-2013, 10:27 AM
Negligent Discharge.
JonInWA
03-20-2013, 02:59 PM
My .02 for this thread...I've had several Beretta 92 pistols-an issue 92FS back in the day(early 1990s), a 92D Centurion Police Special, a 92 Compact Type M, and my current 92D. While I'm no gunsmith, I do have what I consider more than a nodding familiarity with the 92. My 92D is used for IDPA, carry, and nightstand duty.
I consider the 92 series to be an outstanding example of the previous generation of autopistols-meticulously manufactured to very demanding standards and tolerances, using multiple springs (and types of springs), grips fastened by screws, and oriented around military/law enforcement contract requirements/usage. Interestingly, perhaps because of a superior design, materials, production standards, quality controls, ongoing military contract quality specifications/testing protocols (or any or all of the above), the 92 platform seemingly has avoided being plagued with some of the ongoing problems inherent to many, if not most (to a degree) contemporary production firearms, as has been discussed in a number of threads on the forum here.
Due to the tolerancing, a 92 requires lubrication-and consistent lubrication at multiple points-much (and many) more than your Glock/HK/M&P. While certainly not a kiss of death for me, it is a fact of life for the platform, and might give mere casual users a cause to go to another platform.
The Achilles heel of the 92 platform in my opinion is the OEM trigger return spring. Their forecasted lifespan is 5K trigger strokes-and notice I said "trigger strokes," not rounds. For anyone who has a dryfire program, that number comes up very, very quickly. While the current (since around 2008) OEM Beretta trigger return spring is a vast improvement of its predecessor, in my opinion that just means that there's an excellent likelihood that it'll actually last for the 5K manipulations. While it's not hard, or expensive to replace, it is of a greater magnitude of difficulty than, say, a recoil spring replacement. When a trigger return spring breaks, the gun is still fireable (since the triggerbar spring is the spring tensioning the trigger for actual firing), but the trigger won't automatically be levered forward-you have to mechanically re-position it forward yourself.
The solution, for the Border Patrol/INS, and myself, and many others, is to go too an ingenious replacement component that Wolff Gunsprings called the Trigger Conversion Unit or TCU designed at the behest of the Border Patrol back in the day when their issue gun was a 96D Brigadier (and plagued with breaking OEM trigger return springs)-a trapped coil spring (versus the "lever type" OEM spring), which provides a significantly increased lifespan (which Wolff has specified to be in the thousands of manipulations range). The caveat to it is that if you have a newer 92, you'll need to get the older all-steel trigger for the TCU to work; fortunately, BUSA currently stocks a neat package containing a steel trigger, a "D" mainspring, and an OEM trigger return spring that's very reasonably priced.
Magazines. A couple of threads have mentioned the Check-Mate magazines a problematic, but the true explanation is much more nuanced. As some of you know, I'm one of Check-Mate's sponsored shooters, but that came about due to my genuine appreciation of their magazines after using and field-testing over time (but you're still welcome to question my objectivity if you desire...). Here's the somewhat abbreviated story on their contract (and commercial) magazines for the 92/M9: Check-Mate provided the original contract magazines to DoD mandated specifications-which included phosphate-coating the exterior and interior of the magazine tube and baseplate. DoD's intention was that the coating would improve corrosion resistance (which it certainly did); however, the interior coating, mimicing a crackle-finish, also had the unanticipated side-effect of trapping the fine sand/grit/dust particles inherent to Iraq and Afghanistan, and precluding cartridge movements in the magazine-definitely not a good thing. When Check-Mate was provided in-theater sand samples, they realized the problem, and came up with the replacement dry-film finish in 2004, which eliminated the problems, and immediately produced thousands of magazines for the theater. Unfortunately, in their infinite wisdom, DoD failed to purge the old phosphate-coated magazines from the theater, and also my understanding is that the new dry-film magazines were indiscriminately intermixed with the older problematic phosphate-coated ones. Subsequently, Check-Mate offered to refinish any and all of the phosphate-coated magazines with the dry-film finish (first removing the phosphate coating) at what I can best describe at a very advantageous price-DoD declined.
Somewhat concurrent to the problems inherent to the phosphate-coated magazines, some not-so-bright-lights thought that the solution would be to remove the magazine springs, stretch them, and then re-stuff them in the magazines for greater spring tension to help overcome the particulate resistance. This solution 1) doesn't work; and 2) actually REDUCES the spring tension and longevity...
I personally prefer the dry-film magazines in my 92D for several reasons: First, they're very well made, and have a lifetime guarantee (as do all Check-Mate magazines); Second, I prefer their hardened steel baseplate, both for its durability and it's slightly lower profile. While the dry-film magazines came about in 2004, if you're uncertain, just stick with 2005 or later date-rollmarked Check-Mate magazines to ensure that you have ones with the dry-film finish.
Contractually, DoD has used/contracted Beretta/BUSA, Check-Mate, Airtronics and now (again, and currently) Check-Mate for the M9. Beretta also has their excellent PVD-coated sand resistant magazines (which are OEM with the M9A1), which incorporate interior strakes and a slick tube finish to preclude sand issued. MDS (Mechannica del Sarca, a Beretta subsidiary, also markets blue steel magazines for the 92 platform, basically identical to their Berretta rollmarked compatriots, with the Beretta magazines exhibiting perhaps a slightly superior finish, at least aesthetically. My personal magazine preference is for Check-Mate, then Beretta/MDS.
I wish that Beretta had not discontinued the 92D around 1998 (other than for some subsequent contract orders). The triggerpull, while long, is exquisite-think along the lines of a gunsmith-tuned Smith & Wesson revolver. The "D" mainspring nicely lightens the DAO triggerpull to the vicinity of 8 lbs. The lack of safety levers slightly slims down the slide profile, simplifies the manual of arms, and eliminates an egress point for dust and dirt entry, and strengthens the slide. Like a revolver, a 92D tends to be an acquired skill, especially for longer-distance firing.
On my personal 92D, I've replaced the grips with a set of ultra-slim Trausch TJ92 grips-unfortunately, Jacques Trausch recently passed away, and their current and future availability is somewhat in doubt. In addition to the Wolff TCU trigger return spring, I've also replaced my recoil, triggerbar, and slide release springs with Wolff springs. My personal 92D also came with the Trijicon nightsights as the OEM sights-they provide a very good day and night sight picture.
I hope that this somewhat lengthy post is helpful.
Some images:
http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1163.jpg
http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1164.jpg
http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1158.jpg
Best, Jon
Timbonez
03-20-2013, 09:45 PM
Were there a lot of .mil guys in the class?
Most units I have been around (who are of course commanded by officers and senior NCOs who are not gun guys and only care about covering their butts) will require soldiers to carry the M9 with the safety on. As you and others mentioned, the Beretta is more than safe with hammer down and safety off on a loaded chamber. Most PDs (LAPD and LA Sheriff) have long since abandoned the need to keep the safety on when carrying the gun as well as .mil units that have "enlightened leadership."
Next time you encounter this ignorance you could either just set them straight, tell them this is how LAPD does it, or simply tell them it is a "G" model that is docock only.
About the safety, it is kind of ironic that the Army tends to be so adamant about carrying the gun with safety on. Recently I was reading about the M9 trials and one of the gigs against the Beretta entry was that the Army thought the safety/decock to be redundant and preferred the Sig in this regard.
The AF specifically tells their people to chamber a round and carry the M9 with the safety off. That's how I carry when I fly.
Suvorov
03-20-2013, 10:40 PM
The AF specifically tells their people to chamber a round and carry the M9 with the safety off. That's how I carry when I fly.
That's the Air Force. Who knows, maybe things have changed in the Army as well, but when I was in, every unit I saw (including MPs) were carrying safety on. I haven't heard of much good change either.
David B.
03-20-2013, 11:31 PM
I hope that this somewhat lengthy post is helpful.
Thank you.
It was interesting to read about the magazines. Do you know who makes the current 17 round mags that ship with the 92A1's? They've got a high gloss finish and are very slick. Thanks.
God Bless,
David
ADKilla
03-21-2013, 04:55 AM
Do you know who makes the current 17 round mags that ship with the 92A1's?
Not sure about the 92A1, but military is fielding the 20rd mags by Mec-Gar. It's their standard 18-rd flush-fit mag with their +2 baseplate.
ST911
03-21-2013, 08:44 AM
Looking back at my Beretta days, I remember the 9mm >15 mags being iffy in function with the exception of the OEM 20rd. Are they better of late?
1986s4
03-21-2013, 09:04 AM
Thank you.
It was interesting to read about the magazines. Do you know who makes the current 17 round mags that ship with the 92A1's? They've got a high gloss finish and are very slick. Thanks.
God Bless,
David
Sir, I believe those are made by Beretta. The Mec-Gar Opti-mags are 18 and 20 round mags. Mec-Gar also makes 15 round mags that are nicely polished and blued but lack witness holes in the back.
Best,
1986s4
Dave J
03-21-2013, 10:51 AM
Looking back at my Beretta days, I remember the 9mm >15 mags being iffy in function with the exception of the OEM 20rd. Are they better of late?
I used a few Mec-Gar 18-rounders last trip downrange, and was happy enough with them that it was what I kept in the gun when not on the practice range. I normally kept them downloaded one round short of full capacity, on the assumption that it might aid long-term durability.
However, I was only able to get my hands on about 3K rounds of 9mm for practice during that time, and much of that got fired through the 15-rounders I also had, so take it FWIW. Subjectively, I felt they worked much better than the extended 20's I've occasionally tried in years past.
HTH,
Dave
Dave J
03-21-2013, 11:02 AM
Speaking of Berettas, am I correct in thinking that it's considered acceptable to carry one off safe, hammer down? Because there's a long heavy double action pull anyways and the safety just gets in the way. I was carrying one this way during a recent class and a few people told me my gun was off safe and it was getting tiresome to explain the whole situation to them. The instructor didn't say anything about it.
Is there some strategy to make it clear that it's off safe on purpose so people don't bug me about it?
FWIW, simply painting the red dot black tends to make it much less noticeable to those who don't have much of a clue anyway. At least in my experience.
JonInWA
03-21-2013, 12:55 PM
Thank you.
It was interesting to read about the magazines. Do you know who makes the current 17 round mags that ship with the 92A1's? They've got a high gloss finish and are very slick. Thanks.
God Bless,
David
David, I'm honestly not sure. Previously, especially for the commercial guns, Beretta has prided itself (as well as pretty much singularly setting themselves alone in the field of contemporary firearms manufacturers) on in-house manufacturing virtually every component in their pistols. Obviously there have been visible exceptions regarding grips from time to time (with Hogue as an OEM vendor, and Farrar as a previously approved one), but such exceptions have been few.
I'll admit that the glossy/shiny finish described makes me also think MecGar (at least as a possibility), but I believe that Beretta has also had a similar finish on one of their proprietary sand-resistant magazine variants, which I assume that they (or MDS) manufactured. In these days of magazine shortfalls throughout the US, it would not particularly surprise me if Beretta has, or is engaging in some magazine outsourcing. At any rate, if they are in fact MecGars, MecGar has an excellent reputation in the magazine field, and they have been the OEM vendor of choice of SIG-Sauer (for their Sigpro 2340/SP2202 series, and probably others), and for FN's Hi Power.
Best, Jon
You all are costing me money. Between GJM singing praises to DA/SA guns and everybody feeling warm and fuzzy about Sigs and Berettas, I rented a couple of them recently. As a result, I have just mailed out a payment for an unfired 92G Elite II. Provided I can get a good appendix setup for it, it might become my next learning tool.
What are good sight options for an Elite II? I was surprised to find out that Heinie doesn't support Beretta.
You all are costing me money. Between GJM singing praises to DA/SA guns and everybody feeling warm and fuzzy about Sigs and Berettas, I rented a couple of them recently. As a result, I have just mailed out a payment for an unfired 92G Elite II. Provided I can get a good appendix setup for it, it might become my next learning tool.
What are good sight options for an Elite II? I was surprised to find out that Heinie doesn't support Beretta.
Honestly, I like the factory sights on the Elite series, but the Warrens are nice too.
What are the factory sights on the Elite II? If they are tritium, I assume they will be dim given when the pistols were made.
The elite II comes with black on black novaks. The standard Trijicons for the brigadier slide provide a good sight picture and are worth a look,
FotoTomas
04-09-2013, 08:32 AM
Beretta fan boy here. Carried a 92 SBc for awhile in the early eighties and loved it. The agency I work for had the 92D Centurion as standard issue and I carried one ten years until the office I am assigned to switched to the SIG 229R DAK. Some offices still have the 92D and the transition will not be complete for several more years.
I often carried a personal 92D off duty. I am a big GLOCK fan boy as well. When my wife was learning to shoot she liked the Beretta better and adopted mine as hers. This of course required me to get another one. I have lost count of how many I have had over the years.
Plan to keep one in the house always for the better half and as a walk down memory lane for me.
A side note... My magazines were almost always Beretta factory but I too had some GI surplus Checkmate magazines and loved them. Flat baseplate was a bonus. Since no sand box in my current assignment I have no fears my older CMI magazines will be a problem. Another point is this...I often carried a MecGar 17 round magazine with flat baseplate off duty. Work required the issued Beretta 15 rounders but I preferred the extra two rounds in the MecGar on my time. I have not seen any of the older 17 round MecGars lately.
Several of the Beretta reference works I have, as well as a blurb on the MecGar website mentioned they had made magazines for Beretta in the past. During my time in the military, pistol magazines and holsters were often issued as individual kit and the weapons and ammo drawn from the arms room. This to better account for the rounds issued and returned. As explained to me the initial adoption of the M9(92 SBf/92F) required a LARGE supply of magazines to be in the supply line. Beretta made most but contracted with MecGar to manufacture the balance under the Beretta Name. It is quite possible that an older GI magazine with ASSY number and Beretta branding is a contract produced MecGar. I trust the MecGar brand as if factory OEM. :)
LSP972
04-10-2013, 07:28 AM
I too had some GI surplus Checkmate magazines and loved them. Flat baseplate was a bonus. Since no sand box in my current assignment I have no fears my older CMI magazines will be a problem.
Ditto. I was exposed to the 92 "system" when we were evaluating the then-current crop of wundernines for agency use. My main reaction was a yawn; although I sorta liked the Centurion.
Fast-forward 25 years, and #1 grandson is planning to join the Marine Corps. Knowing that the training he will get on the service pistol will be slim to none, I bought him a 92F (he has been a Grock shooter since age 7) so he would at least be familiar with the "platform" should he find himself in harm's way with nothing but an M9 to hand. We have been shooting it for a year now, and I'm getting to where I actually like the thing. I have scrounged numerous magazines, several of which are the GI Checkmate example. They work just fine.
#2 grandson has recently graduated to a centerfire handgun, and wants a Beretta like his older cousin. Of course, he told me "It has to be an M9, Granddad."
So I'm now on the look-out for one of those M9 clones, in the brown cardboard box, that Beretta sold for a year or so. Is there a special designation for that one that will ease my search?
I know, a garden-variety 92F is pretty much the same gun sans markings. But the kid has been knocking his grades out of the park, so I want to reward him.
.
JonInWA
04-10-2013, 06:09 PM
Or get him one of the new M9A1 Compacts...
Best, Jon
Or get him one of the new M9A1 Compacts...
Best, Jon
If you can find one. I'm waiting for the Bruniton version to arrive.
Sal Picante
04-16-2013, 05:38 PM
I'm probably the only other "nuthugger" out there shooting a Beretta other than Ben (who I know pretty well and who got me into 'em in the first place but is probably switching to Tangfo Stock3 soon). I was also the guy that started the petition for Beretta to bring back the Elite/Elite 2 pistols - They just didn't listen (this time - Hoping they will)
I've got several Elite's (not 2's) that I've converted a bit (E2 hammer, D springs, Nowak/Dawson sights, 11# recoil springs. Lots of Enos Slide Glide keeps you from needing oil - if it isn't exuding sex-lube, you're not using enough) and I've been hammering the snot out of them for a while now. Used one this past weekend to win the Battle of the Bluegrass USPSA match.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Vx8TnBQUI
There seems to be a resurgence of interest in DA/SA guns - CZ, Tangfo specifically - and I think a lot of folks are seeing that stock Beretta's can really race with the best polymer guns out there. Hopefully Beretta listens to their fan base and offers an updated G model soon...
Yep, I sure do remember you from Rogers (other Beretta thread question) and how well you shot the G22. On TDA love, I just got back from Rogers a few days go, where I shot Advanced with a Sig 226.
Think I heard you did well at the FL match at Universal -- that right and were you using the Beretta?
I have an Elite II waiting for me in Alaska, when I get home in a few weeks. One thing I don't like about the 226 is how fat it feels in girth, and I wonder if the Beretta is thinner? What grips are you using?
Sal Picante
04-16-2013, 11:22 PM
Yep, I sure do remember you from Rogers (other Beretta thread question) and how well you shot the G22. On TDA love, I just got back from Rogers a few days go, where I shot Advanced with a Sig 226.
Think I heard you did well at the FL match at Universal -- that right and were you using the Beretta?
Nice job on the advanced score! Tony and were reminiscing about Rogers on the way down to Kentucky...
I did alright in FL - felt off my game a bit. Finished 13th, know I left a lot on the table even though the match this year wasn't as tough as in years past.
I'm just using stock Beretta grips - might try the VZ grips in the future, but it seems to be working well. I worry about VZ grips being "too sticky"...
I'm probably the only other "nuthugger" out there shooting a Beretta other than Ben (who I know pretty well and who got me into 'em in the first place but is probably switching to Tangfo Stock3 soon). I was also the guy that started the petition for Beretta to bring back the Elite/Elite 2 pistols - They just didn't listen (this time - Hoping they will)
I've got several Elite's (not 2's) that I've converted a bit (E2 hammer, D springs, Nowak/Dawson sights, 11# recoil springs. Lots of Enos Slide Glide keeps you from needing oil - if it isn't exuding sex-lube, you're not using enough) and I've been hammering the snot out of them for a while now. Used one this past weekend to win the Battle of the Bluegrass USPSA match.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Vx8TnBQUI
There seems to be a resurgence of interest in DA/SA guns - CZ, Tangfo specifically - and I think a lot of folks are seeing that stock Beretta's can really race with the best polymer guns out there. Hopefully Beretta listens to their fan base and offers an updated G model soon...
Nice. I still get odd looks when people see me running a Beretta and running it well in matches. It's like people are hardwired to think the Beretta's unshootable. All it takes is a little practice, and a proper setup.
Sal Picante
04-18-2013, 01:29 PM
Nice. I still get odd looks when people see me running a Beretta and running it well in matches. It's like people are hardwired to think the Beretta's unshootable. All it takes is a little practice, and a proper setup.
It is a fine pistol, as accurate as any, more reliable than most.
LSP972
04-23-2013, 08:19 AM
Well, I located a NIB M9 Commercial that, according to the seller, has been fitted with a genuine surplus government M9 slide and had the larger hammer pin mod done to it. It has "M9" stamped all over it, so the kid should be happy.
I know, I'm taking a chance on a possible frankengun (or was lied to), but the cost was in line with other NIB offerings and as long as it functions, the kid (and I) won't care. There are plenty of other factory guns out there if this one tanks.
After some research on the subject (and please correct me if I'm wrong), genuine Beretta .22 conversion units are scarce, and in fact the only way to get a new one is e-mail Beretta and get in line, so to speak. True?
And please don't suggest the Ciener unit. I wouldn't buy air from that sack of cancer.
.
Well, I located a NIB M9 Commercial that, according to the seller, has been fitted with a genuine surplus government M9 slide and had the larger hammer pin mod done to it. It has "M9" stamped all over it, so the kid should be happy.
I know, I'm taking a chance on a possible frankengun (or was lied to), but the cost was in line with other NIB offerings and as long as it functions, the kid (and I) won't care. There are plenty of other factory guns out there if this one tanks.
After some research on the subject (and please correct me if I'm wrong), genuine Beretta .22 conversion units are scarce, and in fact the only way to get a new one is e-mail Beretta and get in line, so to speak. True?
And please don't suggest the Ciener unit. I wouldn't buy air from that sack of cancer.
.
The kits come up periodically on the Beretta forum, but other than that and the occasional Gunbroker listing, you're stuck with waiting on Beretta
LSP972
04-23-2013, 08:15 PM
The kits come up periodically on the Beretta forum, but other than that and the occasional Gunbroker listing, you're stuck with waiting on Beretta
Got it, thanks.
.
Sal Picante
04-26-2013, 02:04 PM
After some research on the subject (and please correct me if I'm wrong), genuine Beretta .22 conversion units are scarce, and in fact the only way to get a new one is e-mail Beretta and get in line, so to speak. True?
And please don't suggest the Ciener unit. I wouldn't buy air from that sack of cancer.
Yeah, just sign up for email - they had a run of .22 conversion in January and they sold out in 3 days... They run well.
Yeah, just sign up for email - they had a run of .22 conversion in January and they sold out in 3 days... They run well.
Mine runs great with my unmodified 92F. It consistently (about 50% of the time) light strikes with my Elite, due to the lighter hammer and D spring.
arcticlightfighter
07-04-2013, 10:12 AM
Sorry for the necro post.
I too am moving away from the striker fired pistols and am finding the traditional DA/SA Beretta 9X series to be the right pistol for me at this time.
I started running a NIB commercial M9 as a T&E for a viability study for LE. I have since moved on to EDC a minty 92FS Compact which is a tack driver. I bought it lightly used and will be upgrading the locking block and recoil assy.
Although I will continue to T&E the M9, I will be replacing it with my NIB 92A1 with the addition of a couple of factory mods like the "D" spring, EliteII hammer and night sights. Now, If I can find a duty holster that will fit the 92A1 with Surefire X300, Ill be GTG.
I find it interesting to see how many people still are Beretta fan boys.
LSP972
07-06-2013, 08:43 AM
The "M9" I bought for grandson #2 was as advertised, and even had a D spring fitted. Shoots wonderfully.
I also got lucky and caught Beretta with some .22 kits in stock. I'm impressed with that .22 kit... by far the best-executed .22 conversion kit I've ever seen; and it runs 100% with standard velocity ammunition. That's a first in my experience, as well.
However... the D spring was giving me light hits (failure to fire) with the .22 kit. No problems with the 9mm upper. I bought and installed a standard main spring; problem solved. Others have reported this issue as well... FYI.
My main "interest" these days is concealed carry, and the 92F doesn't work for me in that venue. But that .22 kit is a hoot to shoot, and I'm putting more time on it than those boys are.
What I would give for a genuine HK .22 conversion kit for a P30 or HK45C...
.
Jupiter
07-06-2013, 06:33 PM
I bought this beauty back in 2001 and sent it directly to Mr. Langdon.
He did a level II action job. While waiting for my Kytac holster and mag. Pouches to arrive, I picked up a couple of Glock 34s for IDPA.
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/lushl0sn/Beretta92_elite.jpg
Here is a top view of my 92a1 and Elite II.
That Elite has one beefy slide.
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/lushl0sn/7E06F1A9-44F1-4AB4-961F-FBC801EEDEDA-2008-0000002A6994D208_zps8ec99c8a.jpg
92a1
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/lushl0sn/1BCF3912-B2F7-43F8-AE57-85AEAA37AD00-2528-0000004B90287815.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/lushl0sn/53B82D32-AD31-4E32-B33C-4C730689C0F8-2528-0000004BAD18DFCF.jpg
phidelta308
07-16-2013, 09:26 AM
Considering he can convert a FS to G i've been thinking of an M9A1.
Thanks to this thread, I'm going be spending some money with AGW. I've got a 2011 production 92 Compact that I'd love to convert to a G model. The low profile safety, speed bump trigger, spurless D hammer, and a D hammer spring will also be installed.
Chuck Whitlock
07-16-2013, 10:57 AM
From the Guns I regret getting rid of since I've joined this forum list:
... 96D Centurion
:mad:
fixer
07-17-2013, 06:00 AM
Jupiter...Nice collection!
TCinVA
07-17-2013, 07:32 AM
I always wanted an Elite II...just never got around to buying one before I moved on to 1911's and plastic.
Kyle Reese
07-17-2013, 10:09 AM
I always wanted an Elite II...just never got around to buying one before I moved on to 1911's and plastic.
I wish Beretta would start making them again.
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/prez1967/Guns/9EB5A84F-D951-4CFD-8319-E92EEBCABEBD-424-000000126F2152B1.jpg
Novak's 92FS and 92FS Compact Type M
I have a M9A1 on the way and a Brigadier slide im planning on building my version of the perfect Beretta 92.... Just need to get it home from MSP paperwork jail...
... 96D CenturionFrom a durability standpoint, I wouldn't regret getting rid of a 96.
Tamara
07-17-2013, 04:22 PM
From a durability standpoint, I wouldn't regret getting rid of a 96.
Yeah, I know we're not supposed to like them because they die early deaths, but I miss my Border Marshal, too, sometimes. :o (Not enough to run out and buy another one, mind you; nostalgia is safest at a distance... :) )
Chuck Whitlock
07-17-2013, 08:12 PM
From a durability standpoint, I wouldn't regret getting rid of a 96.
What can I say...I jumped on the .40 bandwagon early. I like to tell myself that when it came out, it actually was better.
The other gun on that list was a .40 BHP MkIII, even though I had hammer-bite something awful. The BHP thread here made me ill.
Jupiter
07-19-2013, 07:30 PM
Jupiter...Nice collection!
Appreciate that, fixer!
Those 92s really are beautiful pistols. It doesn't hurt that they work pretty darn well either.
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/prez1967/Guns/35BDD2E5-8C48-4E56-A833-D93BBFB7FBA3-12974-00000359A0AEFF74_zpsf43d88ae.jpg
Building my own 92Brig-SD... Should be ready in two weeks or so
5pins
07-20-2013, 11:08 AM
That's the Air Force. Who knows, maybe things have changed in the Army as well, but when I was in, every unit I saw (including MPs) were carrying safety on. I haven't heard of much good change either.
The Navy also requires the M9 to be carried with the safety on. I found that when I draw from my ALS my thumb is in the perfect position to take off the safety as I hit the release so it’s not a big deal with me. A lot of people (especially woman) have trouble with it and use their weak had thumb instead.
I’m not a big fan of the M9 and if it wasn’t for my job I don’t think I would even own one. I decide after I got this job to by one so I could train on my own time so I could become more proficient with it.
They are however very reliable and not nearly as fragile as their reputation suggest.
Sal Picante
08-06-2013, 12:09 PM
Thanks to this thread, I'm going be spending some money with AGW. I've got a 2011 production 92 Compact that I'd love to convert to a G model. The low profile safety, speed bump trigger, spurless D hammer, and a D hammer spring will also be installed.
I'll have pictures coming soon - another day or so...
Im having a 92D Centurion project in the works, converting the DAO frame to SAO with Billennium frame safeties. Should be home in a week and a half or so... Need to decide on a finish for it. :cool:
Edit: My Project 92Brig-SD is back... and it shoots great!
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/prez1967/Guns/FCD08141-A76B-4098-84CB-68DE33B1C50B-12469-0000035002925F62_zps692a35e5.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/prez1967/media/Guns/FCD08141-A76B-4098-84CB-68DE33B1C50B-12469-0000035002925F62_zps692a35e5.jpg.html)
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/prez1967/Guns/30836850-B023-4301-B3F4-DE1189BA5A0A-12469-0000035026B9209D_zps822f2518.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/prez1967/media/Guns/30836850-B023-4301-B3F4-DE1189BA5A0A-12469-0000035026B9209D_zps822f2518.jpg.html)
7 yards, 10 shots per target after a 14 hour day at work...
Suvorov
08-06-2013, 01:38 PM
Im having a 92D Centurion project in the works, converting the DAO frame to SAO with Billennium frame safeties. Should be home in a week and a half or so... Need to decide on a finish for it. :cool:
Edit: My Project 92Brig-SD is back... and it shoots great!
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/prez1967/Guns/FCD08141-A76B-4098-84CB-68DE33B1C50B-12469-0000035002925F62_zps692a35e5.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/prez1967/media/Guns/FCD08141-A76B-4098-84CB-68DE33B1C50B-12469-0000035002925F62_zps692a35e5.jpg.html)
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/prez1967/Guns/30836850-B023-4301-B3F4-DE1189BA5A0A-12469-0000035026B9209D_zps822f2518.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/prez1967/media/Guns/30836850-B023-4301-B3F4-DE1189BA5A0A-12469-0000035026B9209D_zps822f2518.jpg.html)
7 yards, 10 shots per target after a 14 hour day at work...
Thanks for the photos, please keep us (me at least) updated on your build.
What real world difference or improvement has the barrel bushing made in your opinion? :confused:
Sal Picante
08-06-2013, 01:43 PM
I like my GSD a lot - put a steel trigger and guide rod in, replaced the hammer with an E2 hammer, added an extended mag release, swapped slotted screws for silver ones, and replaced the rear sight with a Novak (not in picture)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A6Lp8-yCEAAd9F_.jpg
What real world difference or improvement has the barrel bushing made in your opinion? :confused:
Just like a 1911 or even an HK, anything that you can do to positively lock down the barrel until the time that the slide starts to move rearward will do wonders for accuracy. All of my 92s, even my Novak's 92FS with a Bar-Sto barrel has a little bit of wiggle to the front end of the barrel when everything is in lockup. This conical barrel bushing does just that.
I like my GSD a lot - put a steel trigger and guide rod in, replaced the hammer with an E2 hammer, added an extended mag release, swapped slotted screws for silver ones, and replaced the rear sight with a Novak (not in picture)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A6Lp8-yCEAAd9F_.jpg
Thats the pistol I originally wanted... Figured since the rest of my Berettas were in FS configuration, I'd build my own version of it. Great looking gun!
From a durability standpoint, I wouldn't regret getting rid of a 96.
I got rid of mine in about 2 weeks back in 4-98
I will say it was nicely made and pulling back the slide was slick.
Chuck Whitlock
08-08-2013, 11:32 PM
I got rid of mine in about 2 weeks back in 4-98
I will say it was nicely made and pulling back the slide was slick.
It was indeed slick as kitten.
Todd's recent blog post reminded me of another reason that I'd gotten the 96D. During the AWB, giving up one round of capacity was more palatable than giving up 5 rounds.
As a cop, I could get standard-capacity mags......I just couldn't kittening afford them! And, it wasn't worth the hassle for only one round.
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/prez1967/Guns/0D754974-FC2E-4F1D-BEC0-52A9CC769086-1422-00000042F05EE42D_zps6eee7e26.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/prez1967/media/Guns/0D754974-FC2E-4F1D-BEC0-52A9CC769086-1422-00000042F05EE42D_zps6eee7e26.jpg.html)
Full size frame with a 92D Centurion slide being converted to Single Action Only using Billennium frame safety components. Machinist sent me this picture today. Hopefully by tomorrow evening the project will be ready to head home :cool:
Anyone reversed a mag catch on these and are there tricks to make it more user friendly that way?
I'd like to keep a manual of arms similar to one of P30, but I admit I find dropping the mag with trigger finger on a Beretta ain't easy, that spring is stiff.
Suvorov
08-14-2013, 09:28 PM
Anyone reversed a mag catch on these and are there tricks to make it more user friendly that way?
I'd like to keep a manual of arms similar to one of P30, but I admit I find dropping the mag with trigger finger on a Beretta ain't easy, that spring is stiff.
I remove the assembly and clip half a coil at a time, reassemble and test. Alternately you could go to an oversized mag release which isn't so oversized when you compare it to a Sig Sauer release.
Oddly, I find the HK mag release harder to work than a Beretta, at least on the USP as the nanny's in Sacramento don't feel the P30 is safe for me to own.
Makes sense, thanks for the tip.
It was indeed slick as kitten.
Todd's recent blog post reminded me of another reason that I'd gotten the 96D. During the AWB, giving up one round of capacity was more palatable than giving up 5 rounds.
As a cop, I could get standard-capacity mags......I just couldn't kittening afford them! And, it wasn't worth the hassle for only one round.
Yes that part of my reason as well.
Main reason I wanted to go 40 back then was because the 9mm wasn't doing so well.
Now I would like to go back to 9mm because of the good bullets like HST etc! Plus less recoil.
Chuck Whitlock
08-15-2013, 04:01 PM
Yes that part of my reason as well.
Main reason I wanted to go 40 back then was because the 9mm wasn't doing so well.
Now I would like to go back to 9mm because of the good bullets like HST etc! Plus less recoil.
So would I......but agency I'm with now only authorizes Glock 22/23/27. Any move to 9mm would be strictly training or HD, until policy changes or retirement. :)
Sal Picante
08-16-2013, 08:48 AM
Work has been kittening me lately! These were pics that I wanted to get up a little bit ago...
"David B." posted a lot of nice pictures of Josh's conversions on http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5018-Allegheny-Gun-Works-92FS-gt-92G-conversion
I figured "what the hell, may as well": I bought a 92FS Compact to have it converted to 92G by Josh at Allegheny Gun Works (http://alleghenygunworks.com) (AGW) - this was my first time dealing with him.
Josh did some not-too-crazy-but-pretty-cool trick stuff to the pistol: Trigger job with speed bump and DAO contoured hammer. (I'll post some pictures on the above link...)
I ran ~hundred rounds at when I first got it back, while trying to get the right height Novak sight, then ran another ~100 through it after I resprung with a lighter recoil spring. Noting to report yet... Shoots like all the other Berettas I've got: well.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/731798/beretta/IMG_4193.jpg
I've been practicing from AIWB using the Blade-Tech Nano - the draw is getting there, but I think I'm going to have to remove a bit of the sweat guard since it hangs up my thumb sometimes. Running ~1.4s to the first shot on the FAST drill.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/731798/beretta/IMG_4189.jpg
I like it... I'm used to these guns now and I'd like to continue to use 'em. Compact isn't much wider than the glock I used to AIWB on occasion (Chicago and all that...)
I really like the DAO hammer on there... Were any modifications needed to it or was it drop in?
If my Type M doesn't sell, I'd consider swapping in a DAO hammer :)
ToddG
08-16-2013, 09:42 AM
Somewhere around here I should have a pic of LTT 1, a standard 92G and the first gun Ernest built when he formally started his company. It has a bobbed hammer as did many of the guns he worked on for me (and others). Here's one on a Vertec:
1703
No question, the bobbed hammer is a great choice for anyone who doesn't care about thumb-cocking a DA gun. For what it's worth, someone mentioned that the bobbed hammer is the same weight as the Elite hammer. That's not a coincidence. The Elite hammer was specifically designed to have the same weight as the 92D hammer because that weight had proven acceptable in terms of ignition reliability on so many 92D's around the world.
I'll try to remember to pull "LTT 1" out of the safe this weekend and snap a few photos of it.
I figured "what the hell, may as well": I bought a 92FS Compact to have it converted to 92G by Josh at Allegheny Gun Works (http://alleghenygunworks.com) (AGW) - this was my first time dealing with him.
Josh did some not-too-crazy-but-pretty-cool trick stuff to the pistol: Trigger job with speed bump..
Do you feel the difference between speed bump and regular? I don't know if I can say without side by side comparison. Stock does feel like some overtravel, but not to bad. Basically, this bump is a difference between ESP and SSP divisions for me.
I am waiting on a stock short reach trigger to check it out.
I had to send my slide to Josh after I realized his low-pro lever doesn't work with G models. Could've just sent the lever, but I figured what the hell and sent it the slide and small parts for "parts in the bag" trigger job. The whole thing feels very smooth, but I've not done live fire yet.
The Compact looks like a nice size for CCW. There is an unfired Type M factory G-model being sold on GB, but looks appealing, but I don't want single stack. So far, about 3 hours of dry-fire of Elite II from an appendix rig, it feels appropriately concealable, but I'd defer final opinion until I have carried there loaded and all day long.
I'll try to remember to pull "LTT 1" out of the safe this weekend and snap a few photos of it.
Waiting...
Shipwreck
08-16-2013, 09:58 AM
Glad to see the Beretta love here :)
I was up to nine 92 variants earlier this year. I had two 92 compacts. They did balance nicely, but I have to have rubber grips on all my guns. And, the Hogue rubber grip panels for the compact are actually thicker than on the fullsize models. I put up with it for about 2 years, and finallys old the compacts.
To me, the regular, fullsize model (with no rail) is my absolute favorite. It balances the best, and I like the standard grip serrations over the checkered frames. Also, with small hands, I have to go with the curved dustcover frame because of that rear strap indentation. I sold my 92FS that had the straight dustcover. The feel of the grip is no longer "perfect" without that 1 aspect.
So, I went from this (9):
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/9-wheel-o-berettacopy1_zpsa2c9e08d.jpg~original
To this now (5, all the same):
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/Line1_zpse5c6519a.jpg~original
The Elite hammer was specifically designed to have the same weight as the 92D hammer because that weight had proven acceptable in terms of ignition reliability on so many 92D's around the world.
I'll try to remember to pull "LTT 1" out of the safe this weekend and snap a few photos of it.
I noticed that the D and EII hammers had the same weight as well... I figured it had to do with how the hammer and "D" spring worked together to hit the primer.
Looking forward to seeing the pics!
Willshoot: Is that Nano for a full size 92? Or did you get one made in Centurion/Compact size?
Sal Picante
08-16-2013, 10:44 AM
I really like the DAO hammer on there... Were any modifications needed to it or was it drop in?
If my Type M doesn't sell, I'd consider swapping in a DAO hammer :)
BTW-this hammer isn't just a DAO hammer - it was a hammer that was re-contoured to match the spurless DAO hammer. This one actually goes into Single action mode.
I don't know about a type-M, but the hammers just swap. I'll be Josh knows...
Sal Picante
08-16-2013, 10:50 AM
Do you feel the difference between speed bump and regular? I don't know if I can say without side by side comparison. Stock does feel like some overtravel, but not to bad. Basically, this bump is a difference between ESP and SSP divisions for me.
A bit - not too much. I think where I can tell most is with the reset, it seems to just "click" sooner/more effortlessly.
I'm in the same boat, adding a speed bump takes me out of production division. But on this gun, I just wanted to try it out...
I am waiting on a stock short reach trigger to check it out.
I think that is a bump to ESP as well... I've got huge hands, so the trigger length/contour never bugged me too much...
The Compact looks like a nice size for CCW. There is an unfired Type M factory G-model being sold on GB, but looks appealing, but I don't want single stack. So far, about 3 hours of dry-fire of Elite II from an appendix rig, it feels appropriately concealable, but I'd defer final opinion until I have carried there loaded and all day long.
There isn't much weight difference - that nano holster fits a Elite or a 92FS. The main win is that the compact handle is just a bit better to conceal...
Sal Picante
08-16-2013, 10:51 AM
So, I went from this (9):
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/9-wheel-o-berettacopy1_zpsa2c9e08d.jpg~original
To this now (5, all the same):
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/Line1_zpse5c6519a.jpg~original
You sir, have a problem... :D
Shipwreck
08-16-2013, 11:04 AM
You sir, have a problem... :D
Pretty much. I've owned almost everything under the sun at one point or another - been collecting non stop since around 1997. I've had Berettas come and go. Caught the Beretta bug again about 5 years. Slowly found I liked it more than anything else. Sold most stuff off and got more Berettas.
I have a few other handguns now, but mostly Berettas. Don't really need more than 5 of the same, so, not real interested in taking it back up to 9 again. But yea, I have a slight Beretta "problem" :D
fixer
08-17-2013, 09:21 AM
Pretty much. I've owned almost everything under the sun at one point or another - been collecting non stop since around 1997. I've had Berettas come and go. Caught the Beretta bug again about 5 years. Slowly found I liked it more than anything else. Sold most stuff off and got more Berettas.
I have a few other handguns now, but mostly Berettas. Don't really need more than 5 of the same, so, not real interested in taking it back up to 9 again. But yea, I have a slight Beretta "problem" :D
Glad to see shipwreck over here...
The wheel of berettas will live on in legend.
Shipwreck
08-17-2013, 09:27 AM
Yes, I am everywhere on all the forums. Hahaha...
Sal Picante
08-19-2013, 02:32 PM
Did ok: Managed to win the 2013 Michigan USPSA Sectional with my pizza gun...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYzSb37iiX4
Suvorov
08-19-2013, 02:45 PM
Did ok: Managed to win the 2013 Michigan USPSA Sectional with my pizza gun...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYzSb37iiX4
Not Possible! Everyone knows that DA/SA triggers can not be shot well and the Beretta's slide will detach and kill you after 100 rounds. :rolleyes:
Seriously - great shooting, it is nice to see a Beretta being driven fast and hard! CONGRATS!
Nicely done. These are certainly very capable guns.
fixer
08-20-2013, 06:18 AM
Excellent!
Clyde from Carolina
08-20-2013, 07:02 AM
Good deal, well done!
Project is home and asssembled. Hoping to get it to a range either tomorrow or Monday after work.
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/prez1967/Guns/A1C19B34-7B57-46BB-95BD-F0777690CACC-70568-000011A4EDBC9F1C_zps9ea0e2a3.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/prez1967/media/Guns/A1C19B34-7B57-46BB-95BD-F0777690CACC-70568-000011A4EDBC9F1C_zps9ea0e2a3.jpg.html)
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/prez1967/Guns/C03A2745-8E93-4B47-8425-D22247A1B61C-70568-000011A4F938DD58_zps20209e9b.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/prez1967/media/Guns/C03A2745-8E93-4B47-8425-D22247A1B61C-70568-000011A4F938DD58_zps20209e9b.jpg.html)
Tamara
08-24-2013, 06:42 PM
Every now and then I get spun up about a Type M and have to go and have a lie-down until the urge goes away. As it is, my only Beretta currently is that adorable little 81.
(One of the Glock service guys who have sprung up at gun shows like mushrooms in a cow pasture was working on a Beretta 93R today. Closest I've been to one of those in about a decade...)
ToddG
08-24-2013, 06:46 PM
The Type M is the goofiest gun.
Beretta takes the 92 and makes it shorter in the butt and nose: 92 Compact.
Someone says it should be thinner, single stack: Type M.
Then some utter moron designs the grips for the gun to be extra wide so the grip feels identical to the standard double-stack 92.
True story.
A 92 Type is literally a 92 Compact in which you opt to run 8rd mags instead of 13rd mags. It's like asking the car company to rip out your gas tank and replace it with an 8g one.
Tamara
08-24-2013, 06:55 PM
The Type M is the goofiest gun.
Beretta takes the 92 and makes it shorter in the butt and nose: 92 Compact.
Someone says it should be thinner, single stack: Type M.
Then some utter moron designs the grips for the gun to be extra wide so the grip feels identical to the standard double-stack 92.
True story.
A 92 Type is literally a 92 Compact in which you opt to run 8rd mags instead of 13rd mags. It's like asking the car company to rip out your gas tank and replace it with an 8g one.
Didn't say it made sense. That's why I go and have my lie-down.
(Last Type M someone traded in when I was still counter monkeying had a Hogue Handall on it. No lie.)
(And, really, is it any goofier than a double stack .32 that is practically the same size?)
Shipwreck
08-24-2013, 08:04 PM
Project is home and asssembled. Hoping to get it to a range either tomorrow or Monday after work.
That is pretty cool.
i'd be tempted to do that, but I haven't seen any rubber grips that work with a frame safety...
Todd, I actually just sold my Type M for the same reasons you mentioned. The grip was too fat given its decreased round capacity and the grip length itself didnt fit my hand too well.
Ship, I was hoping to find a set of rubber grips for this one too, but now that I have it in my possession, these factory combat grips are SO THIN and comfortable that Im going to have the front and back straps checkered in hope to make up the texture/grip difference.
hufnagel
08-25-2013, 06:28 PM
been sniffing around a Beretta Elite II 92G that's for sale. lightly used, with aluminum case. they're asking $1500. seems a bit steep.
they're asking $1500. seems a bit steep.
Indeed. Gunbroker auctions have closed at $1100-$1250 lately.
Speaking of GB, today I scored a 92G compact with three magazines, tritium sights, supposedly just light holster wear for $500. Figure I will send it to Josh at Allegheny for spa treatment when I send him some others in a few weeks. If I decide to be a full time Beretta guy in the future, I figured I would want a compact, and if not, there is always YVK.
I was under the impression these are somewhat hard to find? What is the popular opinion on the 92G compact?
shootist26
09-03-2013, 06:55 PM
Speaking of GB, today I scored a 92G compact with three magazines, tritium sights, supposedly just light holster wear for $500. Figure I will send it to Josh at Allegheny for spa treatment when I send him some others in a few weeks. If I decide to be a full time Beretta guy in the future, I figured I would want a compact, and if not, there is always YVK.
I was under the impression these are somewhat hard to find? What is the popular opinion on the 92G compact?
92G Compact is awesome and impossible to find.
ToddG
09-03-2013, 07:50 PM
I was under the impression these are somewhat hard to find? What is the popular opinion on the 92G compact?
Between the 92G Vertec and the 92G Compact, I'd be hard pressed to choose. Everything else is an also-ran in my book.
92G Compact is awesome and impossible to find.
I try to avoid concepts like 'unfair.' It's pinko. However, GJM often tempts me to feel as if luck is not always evenly distributed.
So what is the allure of the 92G Compact slide on a 92A1 lower (found reference to this in an older thread)?
TLG tells me that the 92G Compact along with the Vertec version of it are perhaps his two favorite pistols.
Sal Picante
09-04-2013, 12:24 PM
So what is the allure of the 92G Compact slide on a 92A1 lower (found reference to this in an older thread)?
TLG tells me that the 92G Compact along with the Vertec version of it are perhaps his two favorite pistols.
Congrats: You just re-devleoped the centurion.
xray 99
09-04-2013, 08:34 PM
Does Beretta still import non-rail 92 Compact Type Ls from time to time?
Im looking for a AIWB holster for my 92D Centurion. I see JM Kydex has a Centurion option on their holster. 5 Shot Leather can only make a SME in full size configuration. Any manufacturer im missing? About ready to order the JM Kydex but am wondering if anyone has experience with another holster maker. I'd prefer leather...
shootist26
09-05-2013, 07:21 AM
So what is the allure of the 92G Compact slide on a 92A1 lower (found reference to this in an older thread)?
TLG tells me that the 92G Compact along with the Vertec version of it are perhaps his two favorite pistols.
That would basically a railed 92G Centurion, which might be my favorite config out of all of them. Full size frame, full size mags, Compact G slide and barrel, rail...hello:cool:
Sal Picante
09-05-2013, 10:40 AM
Im looking for a AIWB holster for my 92D Centurion. I see JM Kydex has a Centurion option on their holster. 5 Shot Leather can only make a SME in full size configuration. Any manufacturer im missing? About ready to order the JM Kydex but am wondering if anyone has experience with another holster maker. I'd prefer leather...
Been using a Blade-Tech nano as AIWB. Not tuckable, but it works pretty well.
Been using a Blade-Tech nano as AIWB. Not tuckable, but it works pretty well.
Im looking for something thats made for a compact/centurion size slide. I dont see that option on blade-tech's sight (unless im missing something?)
JonInWA
09-05-2013, 02:10 PM
Im looking for something thats made for a compact/centurion size slide. I dont see that option on blade-tech's sight (unless im missing something?)
Call Blade-Tech and discuss your specific need, and you'll get the answer.
Best, Jon
Up1911Fan
09-05-2013, 02:13 PM
I'd go with the JM Custom for sure.
Call Blade-Tech and discuss your specific need, and you'll get the answer.
Best, Jon
Called blade tech, they said they dont have anything for the centurion available IWB... Looks like i'll be placing another order with JM :) between bladetech and JM there is no comparison anyway.
Sal Picante
09-05-2013, 04:49 PM
Im looking for something thats made for a compact/centurion size slide. I dont see that option on blade-tech's sight (unless im missing something?)
The stock 92-length slide will fit the Centurion/Compact (I'm running a compact from the holster).
The extra length helps things stay where they should.
(I'll probably order a JM holster sooner than later... BTW, but since IL doesn't have CCW figured out yet, I can wait...)
Edited to add: Interestingly, the nano will also fit Brigadier slides too - flexible enough...
rathos
09-06-2013, 01:16 AM
I can't say for sure, but I think they don't make these anymore. At least that is what I was told by a Beretta Rep (but we all know that sometimes they don't get all the info)
The Ms are still made though and the last time they had any imported was roughly over a year ago. Since they are now making the new 92 compact with the rail I am not sure if they will import those anymore.
Does Beretta still import non-rail 92 Compact Type Ls from time to time?
I am planning to shoot the Glock through at least the end of October, when I may focus on the Beretta for a while. In the meantime, I have been doing a bit of dry firing with the 92G-SD. The good part, is pressing the pizza gun's DA trigger may have been responsible for some specific recent breakthroughs I have had with the Glock trigger. The bad news is the Beretta trigger is so good by comparison, the Glock trigger doesn't feel so good any more!
If I do go Beretta, I also need a .40 for places with four leg creatures. I don't hear good things about the Beretta and .40, and may consider a P229 or P30 V3 for the .40 role, given the similarity in DA/SA manual of arms.
GardoneVT
09-11-2013, 02:13 PM
I am planning to shoot the Glock through at least the end of October, when I may focus on the Beretta for a while. In the meantime, I have been doing a bit of dry firing with the 92G-SD. The good part, is pressing the pizza gun's DA trigger may have been responsible for some specific recent breakthroughs I have had with the Glock trigger. The bad news is the Beretta trigger is so good by comparison, the Glock trigger doesn't feel so good any more!
If I do go Beretta, I also need a .40 for places with four leg creatures. I don't hear good things about the Beretta and .40, and may consider a P229 or P30 V3 for the .40 role, given the similarity in DA/SA manual of arms.
If it's any consolation ,the old .40 Beretta 96 is history in its original from.
The folks at Gardone VT are making it in the 96A1 variant,which has an integrated frame buffer, beefed up receiver and accessory rail.Ive yet to see a problem with those,and I don't expect to anytime soon.
Here's a photo of my last range session at 3 yards w/an 8.5x 11 target printed from here.Every journey begins with one step,right?
http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq266/Silversmok3/IMAG0015_zpsa4597644.jpg
Sal Picante
09-11-2013, 03:38 PM
If it's any consolation ,the old .40 Beretta 96 is history in its original from.
The folks at Gardone VT are making it in the 96A1 variant,which has an integrated frame buffer, beefed up receiver and accessory rail.Ive yet to see a problem with those,and I don't expect to anytime soon.
Here's a photo of my last range session at 3 yards w/an 8.5x 11 target printed from here.Every journey begins with one step,right?
http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq266/Silversmok3/IMAG0015_zpsa4597644.jpg
Don't forget that Josh at AGW can do a G-conversion on that 96 too... My G-compact conversion is doing just fine.
(Didn't mean YOUR 96, just that it is possible to convert A 96...)
GardoneVT
09-11-2013, 04:14 PM
Don't forget that Josh at AGW can do a G-conversion on that 96 too... My G-compact conversion is doing just fine.
(Didn't mean YOUR 96, just that it is possible to convert A 96...)
That be a 92,good sir.
In any event I like my 92FS the way it is,manual safety and all.But thanks for the tip!
My 92G Compact I got thru GunBroker arrived. I am thrilled beyond words -- it appears to have never been fired, and came in a beautiful box with the accessories.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Image1_zps6c7bb978.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Image1_zps6c7bb978.jpg.html)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Image_zps5f1731f5.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Image_zps5f1731f5.jpg.html)
I'm torn between being congratulatory and bitter.
Suvorov
09-16-2013, 09:01 PM
My 92G Compact I got thru GunBroker arrived. I am thrilled beyond words -- it appears to have never been fired, and came in a beautiful box with the accessories.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Image1_zps6c7bb978.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Image1_zps6c7bb978.jpg.html)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Image_zps5f1731f5.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Image_zps5f1731f5.jpg.html)
Very nice!
A uber rare find for those in free states, I don't even have a dream of finding one inside the granola curtain. The police special box is also a pretty cool thing to have (of course saying that will incur the wrath of the anti-collectors here).
I'm siding towards bitterness.
shootist26
09-16-2013, 10:22 PM
gaahhhhh
The police special box is also a pretty cool thing to have (of course saying that will incur the wrath of the anti-collectors here).
I wasn't a collector, but I may have just become one.
It ain't all good news (:)), the Trijicon tritium lamps are about dead, but I guess I just send the slide to Tool Tech?
ffhounddog
09-17-2013, 04:29 AM
It does look pretty. I would take an FS one of those if I could not find a G model. I really liked the Centurion version the best but those are harder to come by that Wilson Combat 1911's.
My 92G Compact I got thru GunBroker arrived. I am thrilled beyond words -- it appears to have never been fired, and came in a beautiful box with the accessories.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Image1_zps6c7bb978.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Image1_zps6c7bb978.jpg.html)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Image_zps5f1731f5.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Image_zps5f1731f5.jpg.html)
Nice!
GJM, That 92G Compact is the stuff of dreams, truly.
I recently got to shoot a Beretta 81 in 7.65 that a friend of mine recently restored, and against all sensibility I want one - even though 7.65 is almost useless as a defensive round.
Being that this seems to be a 'Beretta general' thread; I recently acquired a Beretta 92FS Inox that has seen some use, and I was going to order a steel guide rod and a host of various new springs for it. (This thread might have me sending it off for a serious cleanup and a G conversion too, but that's beside the point)
In the course of sourcing springs from Wolff, I found that they offer a trigger spring conversion setup:
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/BERETTA/92,%2096,%20AND%20CENTURION/cID1/mID2/dID36#64
Anyone have any experience with that trigger spring configuration? Should I stick with a traditional trigger spring and the ~4-5k replacement schedule, or is this a good solution?
GJM, That 92G Compact is the stuff of dreams, truly.
It is really goofy, as I am not a collector, but this pistol, between the original box and apparently unfired condition, makes me almost afraid to shoot it. I am half tempted, since he likes this model so much, to wait until I see TLG, and let him fire it first.
Kyle Reese
09-19-2013, 10:41 AM
Very nice, GJM.
Clyde from Carolina
09-20-2013, 05:36 AM
Yeah, very nice! I still have the same PS box like that for my regular 92FS, but the gun isn't mint anymore and certainly ain't a G model either. That thing is too cool.
It's not on their website yet, but 10-8 Performance just announced on FB that they're in prototype stage for their 92-series rear sight. According to their post, it should be out around the end of the year.
GardoneVT
09-22-2013, 02:30 PM
In the spirit of the thread,here's my latest range outing practicing Mozambique Drills from the holster at 10 yards.
Be gentle.
http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq266/Silversmok3/IMAG0037_zpsb0eb154d.jpg
It's not on their website yet, but 10-8 Performance just announced on FB that they're in prototype stage for their 92-series rear sight. According to their post, it should be out around the end of the year.
That would be nice, although I'd have to have rear notch recut. Can't do their U-notch. I wonder if they'll offer different heights, with 92s fixed front.
Be gentle.
OK.
I could easily see an application for a non-lethal Mozambique, like shooting off his dick, and left ear after that. :cool:
I've been doing this too recently. I am maybe tighter on a body, but I miss head more, usually high.
In the spirit of the thread,here's my latest range outing practicing Mozambique Drills from the holster at 10 yards.
Be gentle.
-- I would either tape or use a negative target, unless it's a real PITA on your range. I get more out of it that way.
JSGlock34
10-07-2013, 09:24 PM
Beretta USA posted a "Give this a LIKE if you think we should bring back the Elite" on their Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/BerettaUSA?ref=stream) today, which made me think of this thread.
https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQA_qD7LIHt5n16H&w=377&h=197&url=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-frc3%2Fq74%2Fs720x720%2F1392097_10151705352352877_ 2018815760_n.jpg&cfs=1
GardoneVT
10-07-2013, 09:37 PM
Beretta USA posted a "Give this a LIKE if you think we should bring back the Elite" on their Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/BerettaUSA?ref=stream) today, which made me think of this thread.
https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQA_qD7LIHt5n16H&w=377&h=197&url=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-frc3%2Fq74%2Fs720x720%2F1392097_10151705352352877_ 2018815760_n.jpg&cfs=1
Hopefully the political obstacles Todd previously mentioned have been cleared up. Last I checked here, Beretta was their own worst enemy regarding the Elite series.
jkurtz7
10-08-2013, 03:43 PM
I'm a big fan of the Beretta 92 series, and have been carrying my 92 Vertec lately due to my G26 having it's first failure last time I took it to the range.
I shoot the 92 very well having cut my handgun teeth on DA/SA guns back in the 90's. I find my Vertec kind of a pain to carry though since it is a large and heavy gun, but a better belt may help with that. Over all, the 92 is probably my number one favorite pistol.
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc53/jkurtz7/575710_10200792445363743_2010649782_n_zpse47cf0c9. jpg (http://s213.photobucket.com/user/jkurtz7/media/575710_10200792445363743_2010649782_n_zpse47cf0c9. jpg.html)
GardoneVT
10-08-2013, 03:46 PM
I'm a big fan of the Beretta 92 series, and have been carrying my 92 Vertec lately due to my G26 having it's first failure last time I took it to the range.
I shoot the 92 very well having cut my handgun teeth on DA/SA guns back in the 90's. I find my Vertec kind of a pain to carry though since it is a large and heavy gun, but a better belt may help with that. Over all, the 92 is probably my number one favorite pistol.
In reference to belts,I'm using a Bulldog leather belt now.It makes the gun feel ten times lighter .
jkurtz7
10-08-2013, 03:55 PM
In reference to belts,I'm using a Bulldog leather belt now.It makes the gun feel ten times lighter .
My current belt is just a Dickies work belt, and that worked fine carrying the wretched little G26. I'll be getting a proper belt very soon.
My current belt is just a Dickies work belt, and that worked fine carrying the wretched little G26. I'll be getting a proper belt very soon.
Fortunately, good belts are out there now, for reasonable prices. I'm quite fond of my Wilderness Frequent Flyer belt (and their classic Instructor belt). Get the 5-stitch model, it's plenty stiff enough.
Beretta USA posted a "Give this a LIKE if you think we should bring back the Elite" on their Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/BerettaUSA?ref=stream) today, which made me think of this thread.
https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQA_qD7LIHt5n16H&w=377&h=197&url=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-frc3%2Fq74%2Fs720x720%2F1392097_10151705352352877_ 2018815760_n.jpg&cfs=1
That's the second time they've posted that. I hope they get enough interest to do at least a limited run. I'd love another Elite, and I'd commit atrocities for a 92G-SD.
That's the second time they've posted that. I hope they get enough interest to do at least a limited run. I'd love another Elite, and I'd commit atrocities for a 92G-SD.
Whats that you say??
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=369583673
Whats that you say??
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=369583673
You are a very very bad man.......
You are a very very bad man.......
Lucky I already build my own version of that gun, or that one would have been kept a secret until after the auction ended :cool:
Whats that you say??
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=369583673
I hate you. That's about what I just spent to replace my water heater.
As of a minute ago, "Billjwlson" is high bidder.
GardoneVT
10-09-2013, 11:55 PM
That would be nice, although I'd have to have rear notch recut. Can't do their U-notch. I wonder if they'll offer different heights, with 92s fixed front.
OK.
I could easily see an application for a non-lethal Mozambique, like shooting off his dick, and left ear after that. :cool:
I've been doing this too recently. I am maybe tighter on a body, but I miss head more, usually high.
That was the first time I ran the Beretta from the holster shooting that drill.Started concealed & hammer down. Typically I shoot an indoor range which very strictly forbids holster practice. I wish I could argue, but they don't have much ceiling left and can ill afford liability lawsuits.
That afternoon and the rest of the week I had access to a field where I could do as I pleased. How liberating -and i'm now quite jealous of people who have their own ranges.
As of a minute ago, "Billjwlson" is high bidder.
I know a guy named bill Wilson who likes 92s a lot.
rathos
10-18-2013, 12:17 AM
I know a guy named Bill Wilson who recently purchased a 92 compact from me...
I know a guy named bill Wilson who likes 92s a lot.
Quite in line with thread title of general Beretta love that 92G-SD sold for $1570...That's a whole lot of love.
Moshjath
10-20-2013, 09:19 AM
Just curious, figured I'd ask the experts. I've installed a D spring, and have the skeletonized hammer on hand...I just wonder if I'm losing anything in reliability/gaining anything in performance compared to the stock 92FS hammer, or if it's mostly just a cosmetic upgrade. I'll be shooting a good amount of NATO M882. Thanks!
GardoneVT
10-20-2013, 09:23 AM
Just curious, figured I'd ask the experts. I've installed a D spring, and have the skeletonized hammer on hand...I just wonder if I'm losing anything in reliability/gaining anything in performance compared to the stock 92FS hammer, or if it's mostly just a cosmetic upgrade. I'll be shooting a good amount of NATO M882. Thanks!
I've been running the D spring/E2 skeleton hammer combo for the last 500 rounds with zero problems, including a 100 round box of 9mm NATO.
My backup Beretta has the same combination, and it hasn't choked either.
5pins
10-20-2013, 10:16 AM
I've been running the D spring/E2 skeleton hammer combo for the last 500 rounds with zero problems, including a 100 round box of 9mm NATO.
My backup Beretta has the same combination, and it hasn't choked either.
Do you feel like you have gained anything with the skeletonized hammer?
GardoneVT
10-20-2013, 10:43 AM
Do you feel like you have gained anything with the skeletonized hammer?
Besides aesthetic improvement, it does make manipulation of the slide w/the hammer down slightly easier.
hufnagel
10-20-2013, 01:04 PM
I keep waffling about a 92. I got a chance to shoot someone's 92FS the other day at the range. It didn't scream my name like my first P30 did. Shot pretty soft with my usual plinking ammo but I only put 14 rounds down the tube. Grip didn't speak to me either, but I'm still drawn to them anyways. I didn't HATE the gun, but I didn't LOVE it either at first blush. I have my eye on a 92G and if the price is right I just might pull the trigger.
It's only money after all :)
GardoneVT
10-20-2013, 01:22 PM
I keep waffling about a 92. I got a chance to shoot someone's 92FS the other day at the range. It didn't scream my name like my first P30 did. Shot pretty soft with my usual plinking ammo but I only put 14 rounds down the tube. Grip didn't speak to me either, but I'm still drawn to them anyways. I didn't HATE the gun, but I didn't LOVE it either at first blush. I have my eye on a 92G and if the price is right I just might pull the trigger.
It's only money after all :)
The following might alter your view on them.
The good thing about the 92FS, from my perch, is that it handles +P and +P+ rounds like a champ. One of the dilemmas with 9mm pistols is that the typical carry ammo has more recoil then the standard target stuff, which can result in drastically different recoil feel when shooting the "hot stuff". This morning I shot five rounds of Buffalo Bore +P+ after finishing some FAST drills, and the recoil impulse is hardly different from the 115gr Federal I was shooting beforehand.
As to the "G" mode, there's a gunsmith in Pennsylvania who converts the standard 92FS'. I personally won't do that, based on advice from an SME on self-defense incidents I consulted who mentioned that it could be interpeted as negligence by plaintiffs' council in civil court- "GardoneVT willfully deactivated a safety" type nonsense. Since my Beretta is a defensive gun, that mod's a no go. You may not have such a concern about that if its a range toy/competition gun only.
hufnagel
10-20-2013, 01:36 PM
I personally wasn't considering the Beretta as a defensive or carry gun... I have 4 HK's for that job. :)
I hear you on the defensive usage vs. modified problem. It's part of the reason I haven't converted any of mine to LEM v1 yet... well that and getting parts is insanely difficult.
I'm looking at the Beretta more as a fun-to-shoot/semi-heirloom/something-different type of addition to my collection. If it's a Balloon Goes Up type of moment i'm grabbing the HKs and the bags with mags in them, not the Beretta.
As for the plinking vs. defensive ammo feels... I've found and spec'ed a couple different rounds that all feel and POI close enough that I'm confident in my ability to use the Important Stuff if the time ever came. (for reference... P9HST1, AE9AP, CCI 5201.)
ToddG
10-20-2013, 01:38 PM
Just curious, figured I'd ask the experts. I've installed a D spring, and have the skeletonized hammer on hand...I just wonder if I'm losing anything in reliability/gaining anything in performance compared to the stock 92FS hammer, or if it's mostly just a cosmetic upgrade. I'll be shooting a good amount of NATO M882. Thanks!
The E2 hammer was specifically designed to have the same mass as the DAO ("D") hammer and thus is every bit as reliable as a standard DAO 90-series pistol (same hammer mass, same hammer spring).
The original Elite hammer (aka E1) had a lighter hammer that did cause reliability issues, especially when folks ran Cougar F springs instead of the 92D hammer spring.
ToddG
10-20-2013, 01:40 PM
As for the "converting F to G" thing and liability, balderdash. The G is a factory configuration used by LE and military personnel around the world and used in the company's top tier competition guns. I carried G's for about four years. You're more likely to have trouble shooting weird off-brand "+p+" ammunition and having a lawyer claim that the stuff cops carry isn't "deadly enough for you." (and I wouldn't worry about that overmuch, either)
GardoneVT
10-20-2013, 01:54 PM
As for the "converting F to G" thing and liability, balderdash. The G is a factory configuration used by LE and military personnel around the world and used in the company's top tier competition guns. I carried G's for about four years. You're more likely to have trouble shooting weird off-brand "+p+" ammunition and having a lawyer claim that the stuff cops carry isn't "deadly enough for you." (and I wouldn't worry about that overmuch, either)
The advice I received on this matter was from an SME with years of legal experience on self defense issues.He made the additional point that since the weapon still says "92FS " on the slide, if I sold the weapon some goober might flip the deactivated safety, pull a stoopid, and then come after me for liability.I'm not selling the piece so the latter issue isn't my concern,but I do have family near Chicago and in the event of a problem I do need to keep legalities in mind.
If you want to know who I asked, PM me.
ToddG
10-20-2013, 02:25 PM
The advice I received on this matter was from an SME with years of legal experience on self defense issues.
I remember when "SMEs with years of yadda" decried that my first folding knife, the Advanced Folding Combat Knife, had a name that would cause me to go blind in court or something. There are a million shades of liability & exposure. You want to worry about worst-case of the worst cases, knock yourself out. Personally, if I wanted a Beretta and couldn't find a "G" I'd very seriously consider getting an F converted and the only reservations I'd have would be reliability and durability, not liability.
He made the additional point that since the weapon still says "92FS " on the slide, if I sold the weapon some goober might flip the deactivated safety, pull a stoopid, and then come after me for liability.
This one I agree with. It's why Beretta only offered "G" models to the commercial market when they were special (and different looking) from the regular M9/92FS. I still think it's paranoid but it's far closer to reality than the other issue.
I am not as much interested in who that dude is or how many years he did it, but what is his actual case load, like case number list. There is a number of "legal SME" names in circulation, but when I tried to find actual cases to read through, I always fell short.
To the date, nobody who has brought up "don't modify factory safeties" argument, any gun model (go read 1911forum about pinned grip safeties), has been able to provide a single actual case example, criminal or civil, where altered safety made a difference in case outcome of otherwise justifiable use of lethal force. I mean, I followed up these discussions for almost a decade now, and have not seen ONE factual case quote.
Back to Beretta. I've got 1600 rounds through my Elite 2 in last 2 months, plus at least same amount of dry fire. Shot 2 matches. DA shot still kicks my ass under time pressure if target is anything but easy. Shooting moving targets in DA on timer is just a pain. Short reach trigger is a huge save for me. I still can't clear a Wall Drill in DA mode one handed with a regular trigger, but I can do it consistently with SRT. The gun is stupidly accurate and soft shooting. The sights are the biggest disappointment to me.
Moshjath
10-20-2013, 03:27 PM
Thanks Todd, and others. I'll give the elite hammer a try. I'd prefer a G model, but I'm issued an M9 at work, and am finally deciding to use the same gun as my work gun in my off duty time. I feel pretty comfortable with it, I shot an M9 for ~4 years on USMA's CWT, so I'm not new to it.
GardoneVT
10-20-2013, 03:43 PM
YVK, the problem IMO isn't criminal court but civil court.
Civil tort has much lower standards of proof then criminal, which is why people routinely sue each other over BS.Yet, even a BS civil case brought against me by the perp or his family still requires that I incur an expense to defend myself.
Now, in my neck of the woods (South Dakota) such a BS suit ain't gonna happen, period.Yet I have family in Chicago, which is a whole 'nother story.The Windy City jury pool isn't by nature gun friendly , and I'd rather train around the manual safety then have to use a different weapon entirely for home defense when I visit family. That's a personal determination, and if I knew I'd never visit Illinois ever again I'd gladly mod my carry gun.
LSP972
10-20-2013, 03:47 PM
The advice I received on this matter was from an SME with years of legal experience on self defense issues.
He probably believes what he's telling you, too. It still doesn't make it true.
Did he also 'splain to you exactly how this information would come to light in the first place? No? Then I will.
When your pistol is seized by the cops, it will go to a crime lab somewhere to be examined. Unless the submitting agency specifically asks for a more detailed examination, the pistol will be test-fired to produce reference bullets and cartridge cases and to see if it works properly. The technician will NOT be looking for any modifications unless he has a reason to. Granted some technicians are "gun guys" and will notice things... for instance, I felt something "off" on a G34 trigger one day that had come in for test firing, tore it down, and found one of those retarded skimmer triggers.
And here's the real news flash about that... this pistol was used by a cop to wrongfully kill (via negligent discharge, nothing intentional; a classic flex/reflex response for those of you who know what that is) a miscreant, and our report clearly stated that the pistol had a user-modified after market trigger. Now... if you believe some of these "subject matter experts", you would think that a whole platoon of slavering attorneys would be all over this one like white on rice. IT DID NOT BECOME AN ISSUE. As far as I can tell (and I've followed this one, because I know the deputy involved), the fact that the pistol had a non-factory, user-modified trigger didn't even come up on either side of the table.
You can believe who you choose... but there it is.
.
P.S.: I believe the fellow said that the pistol he was looking at was a factory 92G... so this whole discussion is moot, I reckon.
.
GardoneVT
10-20-2013, 04:00 PM
Back to topic, I stand confused that Beretta discontinued their Elite series guns.
Clearly Sig Sauers making bank with their P series variants, some of which are even SAO.Why doesn't Beretta make the Elite II, or at least import their SAO 92s which they happily sell overseas?
Back to topic, I stand confused that Beretta discontinued their Elite series guns.
Clearly Sig Sauers making bank with their P series variants, some of which are even SAO.Why doesn't Beretta make the Elite II, or at least import their SAO 92s which they happily sell overseas?
Because Beretta's marketing department is so inept, they couldn't promote free sex.
JSGlock34
10-21-2013, 05:23 PM
Seems to me that even a replacement Elite slide or upper would be a popular item for those of us who already own the various 92F variants. The combination of a replaceable front sight and a 'G' series decocker would be an appealing user upgrade.
GardoneVT
10-21-2013, 05:33 PM
Seems to me that even a replacement Elite slide or upper would be a popular item for those of us who already own the various 92F variants. The combination of a replaceable front sight and a 'G' series decocker would be an appealing user upgrade.
The Model 92s archetecture requires machining a different slide to become a G model.One ,sadly, cannot just swap the slide and call it good.
ToddG
10-22-2013, 07:42 AM
Back to topic, I stand confused that Beretta discontinued their Elite series guns.
Because PX4.
Beretta tried to force the PX4 on its entire competition team, the result of which was a unanimous chorus of "I quit" from every member of the team. Ringing endorsement for the PX4, no?
Ernest Langdon and I met with Beretta in early '11 at their invitation specifically to talk about an "Elite 3" concept. It went nowhere because they were specifically looking to promote the PX4 and we were specifically looking to promote a reliable pistol.
The Model 92s archetecture requires machining a different slide to become a G model.One ,sadly, cannot just swap the slide and call it good.
One can, in fact, "just swap the slide and call it good." A G-model slide will go on a F/FS/D-model frame with no problem (though you'd need to add a sear to the D-model frame or you'd never get a single action mode).
GardoneVT
10-22-2013, 08:25 AM
Because PX4.
Beretta tried to force the PX4 on its entire competition team, the result of which was a unanimous chorus of "I quit" from every member of the team. Ringing endorsement for the PX4, no?
Ernest Langdon and I met with Beretta in early '11 at their invitation specifically to talk about an "Elite 3" concept. It went nowhere because they were specifically looking to promote the PX4 and we were specifically looking to promote a reliable pistol.
One can, in fact, "just swap the slide and call it good." A G-model slide will go on a F/FS/D-model frame with no problem (though you'd need to add a sear to the D-model frame or you'd never get a single action mode).
I stand corrected.
Thanks for the info.
ToddG
10-22-2013, 08:38 AM
Seems to me that even a replacement Elite slide or upper would be a popular item for those of us who already own the various 92F variants.
The trick "back in the day" was to get a Vertec G slide. Decocker only function, replaceable sights, and lighter weight/better cycling than the Brig/Elite slides.
The only reason the Brigadier slide was used for the E/E2 guns was the desire for a replaceable front sight. When I started the Vertec project (which was called the "Evolution" before Marketing got involved), the Production Manager (Tom Valrose) got behind it in a big way and worked out lightening the slide as much as possible while maintaining the dimensions necessary for a front sight dovetail. Tom is also the guy who brought me the flat backstrap prototype frame and asked, "Would this help?"
If Tom is still at Beretta, it sounds like his talents could be more appreciated at a manufacturer that wants to put out improved guns.
jkurtz7
10-22-2013, 01:13 PM
Because Beretta's marketing department is so inept, they couldn't promote free sex.
Todd would know better than I, but it seems to me that Beretta wants to be a shotgun company, and that they are taking the M9 contracts for granted, and not caring much about civilian handgun sales.
Beretta marketing is very lacking in the handgun dept. The PX4 doesn't seem to be all that popular overall, and they have given us the Nano, which doesn't seem to like to work much. I like Beretta, but I'll stick with the 92 series for awhile, at least they tend to work more often than not. If they could come up with a fix for the Nano issues, I'd probably buy one.
ToddG
10-22-2013, 01:29 PM
At least when I was there, Beretta USA was making half its annual revenue through handguns. This was at a time when the .mil was purchasing very few guns.
Folks can argue chicken & egg but personally I think the PX4 -- and Italy's insistence that BUSA "make it popular in the US" -- caused the huge drop in commercial popularity. The LE market was already in the tubes because the 90-series simply wasn't up to par in .40-cal and the PX4 didn't gain any greater traction with LE than it did with casual & competition pistol shooters.
Beretta needs to reboot its pistol program completely and that means letting folks in the US -- and not Italians who are living here for a while -- design something new. Smith did that with the M&P and production/QC issues aside, the design itself was awesome and immensely popular. What other gun has earned 10% as much of the market as the M&P since Glock was introduced?
JSGlock34
10-22-2013, 05:50 PM
The trick "back in the day" was to get a Vertec G slide. Decocker only function, replaceable sights, and lighter weight/better cycling than the Brig/Elite slides.
Darn. Several Vertec frames on Gunbroker, but no slides. Some folks are selling complete pistols, but I'm not quite that committed...yet.
How does the 92A1 slide differ from the Vertec slide?
Sal Picante
10-22-2013, 06:30 PM
Darn. Several Vertec frames on Gunbroker, but no slides. Some folks are selling complete pistols, but I'm not quite that committed...yet.
How does the 92A1 slide differ from the Vertec slide?
I think the slide is beefier, but more of a 90-2 instead of a vertec. I dunno if a 92A1 slide will fit on a std M9/92fs frame.
ToddG
10-22-2013, 06:30 PM
How does the 92A1 slide differ from the Vertec slide?
Don't know. That's past my time there.
I've got a buddy with a handful of NIB 92G Vertecs that might be up for sale soon. I'm thinking about grabbing one so I'll have a pair of them that I'll never shoot instead of just the one. :cool:
GardoneVT
10-22-2013, 06:46 PM
Darn. Several Vertec frames on Gunbroker, but no slides. Some folks are selling complete pistols, but I'm not quite that committed...yet.
How does the 92A1 slide differ from the Vertec slide?
You can send your slide off to Allegheny Gun Works for a G-model conversion.I spoke to the owner some time back when I ordered a spurred hammer ,and he's a stand up businessman . That's a better route then lingering on Gunbroker like a vulture.
IMO, if you want a G Beretta cruise your local dealers and gun shops.Most of them are unaware of its status and will sell it like an ordinary 92FS.I found an Elite II for $500 once at a gas station gun shop.
JSGlock34
10-22-2013, 08:45 PM
I recently acquired a M9, and somewhat to my surprise I'm really enjoying shooting it, which has led to my renewed interest in the Beretta line. I say to my surprise because my introduction to the M9 was 20 years ago, shooting a poorly maintained example with little remaining factory finish under the tutelage of a NCO who appeared to be reading the POI for the first time as he delivered the class. I paid for my own ammunition to qualify, and like everyone else I shot the qualification course by cocking the hammer for the first shot. It did little to engender confidence in my sidearm.
Now I'm a little older, a little wiser, and the M9 I'm shooting doesn't look as if it had arrived at the range after being dragged behind a deuce and a half. I'm finding it among the most accurate pistols in my safe, with a terrific factory trigger. To paraphrase Colonel Whelen, "only accurate pistols are interesting."
But the M9 lacks several features that I look for in a carry pistol, and apparently I missed a plethora of obscure Beretta 92 variants during my 15 years shooting Glocks. I've no interest in the 'G' conversion as I'm not planning on modifying the M9 (kind of the point of having a M9 in the safe is keeping it a M9). Besides, I'm no fan of the integral front sight. I think the ability to change out sights (and use a set of modern high visibility night sights like the Trijicon HDs) is a feature just as important to the 'G' decocker were I considering a Beretta for carry purposes. Thankfully, there are factory models out there that have all of these features, and I'm willing to wait for the right one.
We'll see if this love affair lasts. At least one of my Glock toting friends thinks I'm having some sort of mid-life crisis, and I'm fairly certain another is planning an intervention.
JSGlock34
10-22-2013, 10:32 PM
On another note, I thought this was an interesting looking Beretta displayed at AUSA...
https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1381177_10151732363027877_871914030_n.jpg
Sal Picante
10-23-2013, 08:34 AM
You can send your slide off to Allegheny Gun Works for a G-model conversion.I spoke to the owner some time back when I ordered a spurred hammer ,and he's a stand up businessman . That's a better route then lingering on Gunbroker like a vulture.
The g-conversion works fine - just finding g-levers is tough. Josh is set to machine a few but he's had some production delays.
GardoneVT
10-24-2013, 11:14 AM
http://sigforum.com/movedimages/para/SHOT_13/IMG_8109_IMG_8106_BERETTA_9.jpg
Coming Soon.....
Crow Hunter
10-24-2013, 01:08 PM
ETA.
Oops.
Nevermind, I got the L and the M confused. (Doh)
I thought the L was the single stack that is rare as hens teeth that I almost bought back in the 90's but didn't.:(
I have seen the Inox "L" around at our local Gander Mtn that I didn't buy.
justintime
10-24-2013, 07:43 PM
so the question for me is.. are they more accurate than the sig? are they more reliable than sig? how do the triggers compare to the srt? how does their finish hold up compared to the sig? cause they seem to do the same thing, only a lot less money.
GardoneVT
10-24-2013, 08:00 PM
so the question for me is.. are they more accurate than the sig? are they more reliable than sig? how do the triggers compare to the srt? how does their finish hold up compared to the sig? cause they seem to do the same thing, only a lot less money.
Out of the box, the Sig P-series has a better trigger.
Once you've switched the spring with the D type, that drawback goes away.You can see the finish quality in my training journal-that Bruniton 92FS is my daily carry, and only has wear on the front high spots.Both are accurate enough for serious work .
Where the Beretta gets the edge is quality control and cost.The accessories for a Beretta abound, given it's status as the GI gun and all.For the price of one Sig mag I ordered three 92 mags.Working on them is ,compared to other guns, relatively easy.There's nothing on a 92FS which strikes me as non user serviceable.In a world where Glocks and Sigs are sufferring function issues, I've yet to see a run of bad 92s.My examples haven't had a stoppage yet between them, and that's about 2200 rounds of use with regular cleaning and lubrication after each range trip.
Lastly, the raw looks can rival a Browning product ,especially with the Inox.It's too bad Berettas internal politics won't let them make a single action only Inox w/an overtravel trigger skeletonized hammer.
JSGlock34
10-24-2013, 08:00 PM
With Veteran's Day approaching, thought I'd point out that Beretta is offering a $50 rebate for both active and former military, as well as LEOs, first responders, etc.
http://www.berettausa.com/UserFiles/file/2013_America_s_Defenders_P_1_2013.pdf
ToddG
10-24-2013, 08:35 PM
so the question for me is.. are they more accurate than the sig? are they more reliable than sig? how do the triggers compare to the srt? how does their finish hold up compared to the sig? cause they seem to do the same thing, only a lot less money.
Having shot and competed with both, I'd say it's a tough call.
A Beretta with a Speed Bump trigger (which I think the Allegheny guy is doing now, and still using the name Langdon came up with) has a reset that's longer than an SRT but not enough to be worried about IMHO. However, it's obviously much easier to get a SRT than a Speed Bump. It's much easier to do a trigger job on a Beretta than a SIG, though.
While most of the Berettas I had were quite accurate, there's no guarantee and some are definitely lacking. SIGs, at least in my experience, are almost always amazingly accurate. SIG has made changes in the barrel and locking insert since I was there, though, and I'm not certain if current standard US-production guns (as opposed to speciality guns or German-made guns) continue to be as accurate.
Reliability and durability? I'd give the durability edge to the SIG without a second thought. The locking block on the Beretta remains a weak link and while the problem is grossly exaggerated in many circles, they do break and it is a PITA when it happens. A 9mm SIG needs little more than spring and pin changes to make 100k.
Personally, I think the SIG is dramatically more ergonomic. I'd only seriously use a G-model Beretta and they're just plain hard to find. Also, detail stripping the slide of a G-model requires three arms and a small leprechaun, and can only be done properly during a solar eclipse.
Most models of the Beretta don't have a replaceable front sight. For the models that do, options are very limited. Since many people are extremely particular about their sight choices, I'd seriously consider whether you can get sights you want on the Beretta before committing to one.
At the end of the day, if I had one and was happy, I wouldn't look too seriously at the other.
.
Personally, I think the SIG is dramatically more ergonomic.
That's interesting, TLG. When I was choosing which one of the two to pick for my foray into a world of traditional DA/SA guns, the ergos were a reason I chose the B. One does need to have larger hands, though. Goes to show how preferences differ.
I found that B has a notable pre-travel in SA mode, sort of reduced travel LEM, and I prefer it over pretty much wall break of Sig.
Wholly agree on sights and slide disassembly. I broke two punches removing decocker levers on my Elite.
David B.
10-25-2013, 12:52 AM
Here is my carry 92A1. It's totally tricked out. :cool:
AGW speed bump trigger and low profile decocker (G-alternative), you're not going to accidentally engage it.
Bedair guide rod, custom sights, finish, grips, E2 hammer, extended mag catch, D-spring and flush hammer spring cap.
My training/comp gun is setup identical to this one. However, I just sent my training gun to Josh at AGW for some frame work (mag well flare, front and back-strap checkering, re-anodizing). This is going to get the same treatment as soon as the funds are available.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/Apostolos/carry_zps3a414929.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Apostolos/media/carry_zps3a414929.jpg.html)
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/Apostolos/carry1_zps8e132812-1.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Apostolos/media/carry1_zps8e132812-1.jpg.html)
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/Apostolos/carry2_zpsb2f9a4ba.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Apostolos/media/carry2_zpsb2f9a4ba.jpg.html)
God bless,
David
Whiskey_Bravo
10-25-2013, 11:42 AM
That is down right gorgeous David. Congratulations.
Have you considered installing the Trijicon HD sights on your guns? I am curious to see if they work well on the 92a1. I saw a 92a1 in the case at a local shop and I can not stop thinking about it.
David B.
10-25-2013, 12:30 PM
Have you considered installing the Trijicon HD sights on your guns? I am curious to see if they work well on the 92a1.
Yes, I have considered it, but the HD front sight post (for the 92A1) is way too high and wide to use with any other aftermarket rear sight and still maintain the sight picture and POA/POI I prefer.
I like using the top of the front sight blade to slice through the point of impact for precision shoots. I also like 30 thousandths of an inch difference between the front post and rear notch for the amount of light I see in the sight picture. This allows for a good balance between precision and speed given the current condition of my eyes. Trijicon HD's don't offer this setup.
I'm currently using a Trijicon front that is .125" wide and a custom Novak rear with the notch opened up to .155" by Tooltech Gunsight. The front has a normal size green tritium vial with white ring, and two smaller size yellow vials in the rear without the white rings. This allows me to maintain focus on the front sight easier while still enabling me to acquire proper sight alignment in low light conditions.
I routinely shoot at dusk and I can tell you that for me, night sights makes hitting the target possible in low light conditions.
I have recently been experimenting with Testors paint on the front sight post, but it's too soon for an opinion. I've ordered a few different colors i.e., florescent orange, green, etc., and I'm still waiting for them to come in.
God Bless,
David
Sal Picante
10-25-2013, 02:33 PM
That is sharp!
Love the pizza!
Looks great - David!
I'm glad to see you're still around.
David B.
10-25-2013, 05:10 PM
Looks great - David!
I'm glad to see you're still around.
Thanks.
It's good to be around. Each day is a gift and I'm cognizant of fact that there is no guarantee for tomorrow.
God Bless,
David
hufnagel
10-25-2013, 07:10 PM
And right there those pictures make me lust after a 92 again. Thanks. :grumble:
37th Mass
10-25-2013, 07:53 PM
On another note, I thought this was an interesting looking Beretta displayed at AUSA...
https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1381177_10151732363027877_871914030_n.jpg
I played with this one a bit at AUSA and spoke with the BUSA rep at the booth. This gun was labeled "M9A3 Prototype". It had the captured guiderod spring and internal buffer of the 92A1. It also had safety/decocker levers which went higher than 90 degrees when in the 'fire' position. (This photo seems to show the lever in between the safe and fire position) The rep said that was to reduce the chance of accidentally putting the gun on safe when racking the slide.
I would think that the internal buffer might help a bit with durability. I'm not convinced the safety/decocker lever position would make much of a difference, but it would be interesting to hear from someone who has actually shot a Beretta with that feature.
GardoneVT
10-25-2013, 08:33 PM
When I run my 92s, I grab the slide by putting the base of my left hand thumb and pointer finger right over the safety lever.In so doing, I wrap my pointer finger on the left side under the lever.In that position I can't accidentally activate the safety, since the lever is blocked from going down by my hands.It's hard to describe in words, but I'll post a picture later.
JSGlock34
10-25-2013, 08:43 PM
I played with this one a bit at AUSA and spoke with the BUSA rep at the booth. This gun was labeled "M9A3 Prototype". It had the captured guiderod spring and internal buffer of the 92A1. It also had safety/decocker levers which went higher than 90 degrees when in the 'fire' position. (This photo seems to show the lever in between the safe and fire position) The rep said that was to reduce the chance of accidentally putting the gun on safe when racking the slide.
I would think that the internal buffer might help a bit with durability. I'm not convinced the safety/decocker lever position would make much of a difference, but it would be interesting to hear from someone who has actually shot a Beretta with that feature.
Hey, thanks for posting. The threaded barrel and removable front sight had caught my attention, but I wasn't aware of the safety lever changes.
Seems to me, the solution to the 'accidentally put on safe' problem is a 'G' decocker, removing the safety position. I suppose the military isn't interested in that solution, hence this beyond 90 degree contraption. The M11 seems to do just fine without a safety setting...
jkurtz7
10-25-2013, 09:04 PM
When I run my 92s, I grab the slide by putting the base of my left hand thumb and pointer finger right over the safety lever.In so doing, I wrap my pointer finger on the left side under the lever.In that position I can't accidentally activate the safety, since the lever is blocked from going down by my hands.It's hard to describe in words, but I'll post a picture later.
This is how I do it too, but it has never been a conscience thing, it's just how my finger and thumb happens to naturally be when racking the slide at the rear. A lot of times when chambering a round, I just use my thumb and index finger on front bevels of the slide. I've ever had an issue with inadvertently actuating the safety.
fixer
10-25-2013, 09:13 PM
When I run my 92s, I grab the slide by putting the base of my left hand thumb and pointer finger right over the safety lever.In so doing, I wrap my pointer finger on the left side under the lever.In that position I can't accidentally activate the safety, since the lever is blocked from going down by my hands.It's hard to describe in words, but I'll post a picture later.
same here.
it does work once you practice and make it an ingrained habit.
GardoneVT
10-25-2013, 09:25 PM
As promised.
Offhand grip.
http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq266/Silversmok3/IMAG0073_zps375b48d6.jpg
Profile view. Note my thumb is parallel to the frame.
http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq266/Silversmok3/IMAG0074_zps997c250a.jpg
Left side view.
http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq266/Silversmok3/IMAG0075_zps8890d206.jpg
And the ejection port is NOT covered or blocked .
http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq266/Silversmok3/IMAG0076_zpsb0dece0e.jpg
justintime
10-25-2013, 10:50 PM
Thanks for the feedback, very interesting. I need to find someone who has a few of these as they seem fairly interesting to me.
Having shot and competed with both, I'd say it's a tough call.
A Beretta with a Speed Bump trigger (which I think the Allegheny guy is doing now, and still using the name Langdon came up with) has a reset that's longer than an SRT but not enough to be worried about IMHO. However, it's obviously much easier to get a SRT than a Speed Bump. It's much easier to do a trigger job on a Beretta than a SIG, though.
While most of the Berettas I had were quite accurate, there's no guarantee and some are definitely lacking. SIGs, at least in my experience, are almost always amazingly accurate. SIG has made changes in the barrel and locking insert since I was there, though, and I'm not certain if current standard US-production guns (as opposed to speciality guns or German-made guns) continue to be as accurate.
Reliability and durability? I'd give the durability edge to the SIG without a second thought. The locking block on the Beretta remains a weak link and while the problem is grossly exaggerated in many circles, they do break and it is a PITA when it happens. A 9mm SIG needs little more than spring and pin changes to make 100k.
Personally, I think the SIG is dramatically more ergonomic. I'd only seriously use a G-model Beretta and they're just plain hard to find. Also, detail stripping the slide of a G-model requires three arms and a small leprechaun, and can only be done properly during a solar eclipse.
Most models of the Beretta don't have a replaceable front sight. For the models that do, options are very limited. Since many people are extremely particular about their sight choices, I'd seriously consider whether you can get sights you want on the Beretta before committing to one.
At the end of the day, if I had one and was happy, I wouldn't look too seriously at the other.
justintime
11-02-2013, 11:38 PM
So what is the deal on the centurion? my uncle has a 92fs centurion USA made that he would let go to me for cheap. I'm wondering if the guide rod/springs are easily found and if you can upgrade the DA pull with the D spring? Will the gun fit in standard 92fs holsters? I'm really not wanting to play around with another gun besides the sig this year but I'm in a collecting kinda mood :D
So what is the deal on the centurion? my uncle has a 92fs centurion USA made that he would let go to me for cheap. I'm wondering if the guide rod/springs are easily found and if you can upgrade the DA pull with the D spring? Will the gun fit in standard 92fs holsters? I'm really not wanting to play around with another gun besides the sig this year but I'm in a collecting kinda mood :D
Im a really big fan of the Centurion sized 92 pistols. Guide rods and springs are easy to find (both stock and aftermarket). D spring upgrades work just as well as on other 92/M9 pistols and the Centurions will indeed fit in full size holsters. If your getting a deal on the pistol, jump on it. Decent 92FS Centurions dont pop up very often lately.
justintime
11-03-2013, 02:43 PM
I went out and shot the centurion today. Only put 200 rounds through it but I am both impressed and unimpressed with it. The integral front sight is kinda a downer since it does not have tritium. That being said I really actually like the stock sights which is a first for me(I'm on the fence with the sig night sights after blacking them out). The front blade is very thin and for some reason easy for me to align posthaste. The gun was defiantly accurate enough.. I would say on par with most of my glock 19s but not on the same level as the sig 229r. The trigger reset was annoying after spending so much time with the SRT but in a way I might be better with it as it does not promote trigger freeze as easily for me. The double action pull is way to heavy and unlike the sig, I am not confident in my accuracy with it.
The safety/decocker is really annoying and not much needs to be added to that issue that has not been beaten to death.
The gun shoots a lot smoother and flatter than the 229 and I can only describe it as smooth. I had absolutely zero problems tracking the sights through rapid fire and unlike the sig, I shoot splits better than the glock with it right from the get-go which was the most surprising aspect of the gun. The magazine well is marginally better than the sig despite the fact it is cut straight... It still doesn't have the grips to get hung up on.
I defiantly prefer the sigs slide release and decocker.
Strangely I shot just as well with it as I do the sig inside of 15 yards... odd
My girlfriend shot it today and instantly was putting all her shots through the same hole at 7 yards which I have not seen her do with any-gun. So she has claimed it as hers lol. I sorta think this gun would have a slight edge in IDPA than the sig, but that is just a hunch at the moment. I'm thinking my opinion might heavily sway towards the Beretta with a lighter DA pull and a removal of the safety.
How reliably does the D spring ignite primers?
Sal Picante
11-03-2013, 03:03 PM
I went out and shot the centurion today. Only put 200 rounds through it but I am both impressed and unimpressed with it. The integral front sight is kinda a downer since it does not have tritium. That being said I really actually like the stock sights which is a first for me(I'm on the fence with the sig night sights after blacking them out). The front blade is very thin and for some reason easy for me to align posthaste. The gun was defiantly accurate enough.. I would say on par with most of my glock 19s but not on the same level as the sig 229r. The trigger reset was annoying after spending so much time with the SRT but in a way I might be better with it as it does not promote trigger freeze as easily for me. The double action pull is way to heavy and unlike the sig, I am not confident in my accuracy with it.
The safety/decocker is really annoying and not much needs to be added to that issue that has not been beaten to death.
The gun shoots a lot smoother and flatter than the 229 and I can only describe it as smooth. I had absolutely zero problems tracking the sights through rapid fire and unlike the sig, I shoot splits better than the glock with it right from the get-go which was the most surprising aspect of the gun. The magazine well is marginally better than the sig despite the fact it is cut straight... It still doesn't have the grips to get hung up on.
I defiantly prefer the sigs slide release and decocker.
Strangely I shot just as well with it as I do the sig inside of 15 yards... odd
My girlfriend shot it today and instantly was putting all her shots through the same hole at 7 yards which I have not seen her do with any-gun. So she has claimed it as hers lol. I sorta think this gun would have a slight edge in IDPA than the sig, but that is just a hunch at the moment. I'm thinking my opinion might heavily sway towards the Beretta with a lighter DA pull and a removal of the safety.
How reliably does the D spring ignite primers?
D-spring is reliable with anything that you pretty much put in it.
(If you're reloading and you use Tula primers, expect problems, but stock Glocks won't reliably set off those either... Solution? Don't use Tula Primers...)
GardoneVT
11-03-2013, 03:53 PM
I went out and shot the centurion today. Only put 200 rounds through it but I am both impressed and unimpressed with it. The integral front sight is kinda a downer since it does not have tritium. That being said I really actually like the stock sights which is a first for me(I'm on the fence with the sig night sights after blacking them out). The front blade is very thin and for some reason easy for me to align posthaste. The gun was defiantly accurate enough.. I would say on par with most of my glock 19s but not on the same level as the sig 229r. The trigger reset was annoying after spending so much time with the SRT but in a way I might be better with it as it does not promote trigger freeze as easily for me. The double action pull is way to heavy and unlike the sig, I am not confident in my accuracy with it.
The safety/decocker is really annoying and not much needs to be added to that issue that has not been beaten to death.
The gun shoots a lot smoother and flatter than the 229 and I can only describe it as smooth. I had absolutely zero problems tracking the sights through rapid fire and unlike the sig, I shoot splits better than the glock with it right from the get-go which was the most surprising aspect of the gun. The magazine well is marginally better than the sig despite the fact it is cut straight... It still doesn't have the grips to get hung up on.
I defiantly prefer the sigs slide release and decocker.
Strangely I shot just as well with it as I do the sig inside of 15 yards... odd
My girlfriend shot it today and instantly was putting all her shots through the same hole at 7 yards which I have not seen her do with any-gun. So she has claimed it as hers lol. I sorta think this gun would have a slight edge in IDPA than the sig, but that is just a hunch at the moment. I'm thinking my opinion might heavily sway towards the Beretta with a lighter DA pull and a removal of the safety.
How reliably does the D spring ignite primers?
Haven't had a stoppage yet, and my example has the lighter E2 hammer also.
Next year's project for me is to pick up a 92D project gun and turn it SAO courtesy of Allegheny Gun Works.That approach would solve both of your objections -and you can have the frame cut with a beveled magwell.
JonInWA
11-04-2013, 04:04 PM
Haven't had a stoppage yet, and my example has the lighter E2 hammer also.
Next year's project for me is to pick up a 92D project gun and turn it SAO courtesy of Allegheny Gun Works.That approach would solve both of your objections -and you can have the frame cut with a beveled magwell.
Turning a 92D into a SAO 92?! Sacrilege!
Best, Jon
ToddG
11-04-2013, 04:11 PM
A 92FS can be turned into a cocked-and-locked gun very easily. Well, cocked-and-on-safe, at least. Pulling the trigger still drops the hammer but doesn't discharge a round; then the gun can be manually cocked or shot from DA.
It's silly but doable simply by replacing a single part.
GardoneVT
11-04-2013, 04:16 PM
Turning a 92D into a SAO 92?! Sacrilege!
Best, Jon
Apostasy never looked so good.
Courtesy Pres1267 from the Berettaforum.
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/prez1967/Guns/BDA336E7-31CB-4489-8FFA-AB7CC66E6C39-5779-0000017FA4ABD84F_zps3d52d2bd.jpg
TORCH2J
11-04-2013, 04:18 PM
Oh good golly, that sure is pretty.
Sal Picante
11-04-2013, 04:27 PM
... So I can send him a message...
GardoneVT
11-04-2013, 04:44 PM
... So I can send him a message...
And so he has.
;)
A 92FS can be turned into a cocked-and-locked gun very easily. Well, cocked-and-on-safe, at least. Pulling the trigger still drops the hammer but doesn't discharge a round; then the gun can be manually cocked or shot from DA.
It's silly but doable simply by replacing a single part.
Used to be a popular mod with a lot of specialised units in the South African Police. On both B92's and Z88( the locally made copy)
TORCH2J
11-05-2013, 06:42 AM
Used to be a popular mod with a lot of specialised units in the South African Police. On both B92's and Z88( the locally made copy)
What was the reasoning behind this?
Apostasy never looked so good.
Courtesy Pres1267 from the Berettaforum.
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn89/prez1967/Guns/BDA336E7-31CB-4489-8FFA-AB7CC66E6C39-5779-0000017FA4ABD84F_zps3d52d2bd.jpg
Thats mine :cool:
My screen name is prez1967 over on Berettaforum and some others.
Still waiting on my gold bead front sight to be installed (apparently it takes a while to source the right size gold rod to make the sight) and it'll be coming my way.
Currently searching for an elusive 92D Brigadier slide (or maybe even a Steel-I or Billie slide) to make a full size upper for that lower.
ToddG
11-05-2013, 04:02 PM
Thats mine :cool:
Personally I never got the appeal of the SAO Berettas (or SIGs), but then when I was with those companies I never got the appeal of SAO in general. In fact, even after a year and a half with a 1911 I still don't. :cool: So perhaps I'm not the best judge.
Currently searching for an elusive 92D Brigadier slide (or maybe even a Steel-I or Billie slide) to make a full size upper for that lower.
I'll shoot a buddy at BUSA an email and see if there is by some chance a 92D Brig slide lying around somewhere that they might be willing to part with...
I'll shoot a buddy at BUSA an email and see if there is by some chance a 92D Brig slide lying around somewhere that they might be willing to part with...
That would be might kind of you Todd! Keep me posted. I'll owe you one!
Last night I was watching the lobby scene from The Matrix, and I noticed something: The two Beretta 92s that Neo uses are not standard 92FS pistols. They've got slick-side, non-Brig slides (looks like 92D slides), and are being carried cocked-and-locked, with the later Combat/Stock-style thumb safety, but no extended beavertail. Later on, when he shoots the elevator cable, you can see the slide has no safety either. Did Beretta ever make such a gun in a factory configuration?
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h103/LordHeadshot/Matrix_Mystery_Berettas_zps174e12a5.png
And for the record, while I once lusted for an SAO 92 variant, now I actually prefer the options that the DA/SA config brings to the table when properly set up.
JSGlock34
11-05-2013, 09:54 PM
According to the IMFDB (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Matrix,_The#Beretta_84FS_Cheetah), those are actually Beretta 84Fs tucked into Neo's belt, despite him using the 92FS in the rest of the scene.
"Two Beretta 84FS pistols passed off as Beretta 92FS's are seen tucked in Neo's waist. Note the forward curve on the grips and the frame mounted safeties. The size difference between the 84FS and 92FS is not that visible when tucked into a belt like this."
GardoneVT
11-05-2013, 11:40 PM
According to the IMFDB (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Matrix,_The#Beretta_84FS_Cheetah), those are actually Beretta 84Fs tucked into Neo's belt, despite him using the 92FS in the rest of the scene.
"Two Beretta 84FS pistols passed off as Beretta 92FS's are seen tucked in Neo's waist. Note the forward curve on the grips and the frame mounted safeties. The size difference between the 84FS and 92FS is not that visible when tucked into a belt like this."
Neo carries the 92s in a double shoulder holster,which is where he draws during the famous dual wield rooftoop shootout.
What was the reasoning behind this?
Simply so guys could carry cocked and locked.
5pins
11-06-2013, 07:13 AM
Last night I was watching the lobby scene from The Matrix, and I noticed something: The two Beretta 92s that Neo uses are not standard 92FS pistols. They've got slick-side, non-Brig slides (looks like 92D slides), and are being carried cocked-and-locked, with the later Combat/Stock-style thumb safety, but no extended beavertail. Later on, when he shoots the elevator cable, you can see the slide has no safety either. Did Beretta ever make such a gun in a factory configuration?
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h103/LordHeadshot/Matrix_Mystery_Berettas_zps174e12a5.png
My guess would be they are Taurus 92’s
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