AR15's are bad, mkay? [Archive]

View Full Version : AR15's are bad, mkay?

Kyle Reese

03-10-2013, 10:25 AM

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/03/09/Gabby-Giffords-Husband-Buys-AR-15-Announces-He-s-Not-Keeping-It-After-News-Leaks-Out

The hypocrisy is nothing short of breathtaking....

WobblyPossum

03-10-2013, 10:51 AM

NETim

03-10-2013, 11:16 AM

These people and their "too easy to buy" nonsense. Alcohol's waaaaayyyyy easier to buy and it's involved in waaaaayyyyy more deaths every year than are firearms.

No one seems to have their panties in a twist over that.

LOKNLOD

03-10-2013, 12:37 PM

I call BS. It says he purchased "high capacity mags" on March 5th, and we know that's damn near impossible.

ETA: If it's "too easy" then why is the gun still at the store, and he hasn't taken possession of it? Do any of you buy guns and then just leave them at the store to pick up later? More BS. Publicity stunt.

Too bad the shop didn't refuse him service because of his "obvious lack of mental capacity displayed on national media recently" and turn him away.

PS Cap'n Kelly, I bought two handguns on the way home from work Friday and the whole thing took less than 30 minutes, including me waiting on slow service. One had high cap mags and the other had a threaded barrel. Free America FTMFW, baby.

This caught my eye:

...who argued that semi-automatic weapons ... and other guns with military-style features level the playing field against law enforcement.

One of the more honest gun control statements I've heard.

Suvorov

03-10-2013, 03:50 PM

His "excuse" just doesn't make any sense. So he is trying to show everyone how easy it is for an O-6, Space Shuttle Commander, Husband of a (F) Congresswoman, and personal friend of the POTUS, to buy a firearm :confused:

That is a far cry from some 14 year old jail bait with a whale tail trying to buy a pack of smokes at the quicky mart.

The only logical explanation is that Mark Kelly likes guns as much as the rest of us do, wants to make sure "he gets his", but unlike us, does not believe that they should be available to the "subject" classes. :mad:

Tamara

03-10-2013, 04:30 PM

The only logical explanation is that Mark Kelly likes guns as much as the rest of us do, wants to make sure "he gets his", but unlike us, does not believe that they should be available to the "subject" classes. :mad:

The absolutely ingenuous hypocrisy of these people leaves me gobsmacked.

Talk to an ofay Birkenstock-wearing liberal neighbor in your bourgeoisie bohemian neighborhood, maybe in the aisle at the local Whole Foods. Get them going on the topic of "semiautomatic weapons". Casually mention that you own a semiautomatic pistol and shoot it in sports and relaxation and see nothing wrong with using it for self-defense, push-come-to-shove (don't tell them that it's on your hip right there in the organic produce department; don't want their head to asplode) and watch them backpedal and say that, well, sure... you're responsible and intelligent and a nice person and white and middle class, they didn't mean take them away from you! Just... you know... from those people... those violent people.

Their fears of gun violence are as much projection as their cries of racism or classism.

Dan_S

03-10-2013, 04:46 PM

The absolutely ingenuous hypocrisy of these people leaves me gobsmacked.

Talk to an ofay Birkenstock-wearing liberal neighbor in your bourgeoisie bohemian neighborhood, maybe in the aisle at the local Whole Foods. Get them going on the topic of "semiautomatic weapons". Casually mention that you own a semiautomatic pistol and shoot it in sports and relaxation and see nothing wrong with using it for self-defense, push-come-to-shove (don't tell them that it's on your hip right there in the organic produce department; don't want their head to asplode) and watch them backpedal and say that, well, sure... you're responsible and intelligent and a nice person and white and middle class, they didn't mean take them away from you! Just... you know... from those people... those violent people.

Their fears of gun violence are as much projection as their cries of racism or classism.

Funny, that.

In those situations I've never seen them backpedal. I have had someone threaten to report me to ATF however, since to quote the individual in question "no one needs a weapon that will fire between 650 and 750 rounds per minute." Never mind the fact that the weapon in question was a semi-freaking-automatic....

I generally just make a point of not talking to people that think that way anymore (or more accurately stated, I make a point of not talking to people in general...) Oddly enough, my blood pressure levels are amazingly low....

MikeyC

03-10-2013, 05:25 PM

, well, sure... you're responsible and intelligent and a nice person and white and middle class, they didn't mean take them away from you! Just... you know... from those people... those violent people.

Their fears of gun violence are as much projection as their cries of racism or classism.

I point this out to a woman one afternoon at a picnic during my son's extremely brief tenure at a Waldorf School and the woman jumped out of her seat like she had a JATO in her back pocket. Apparently "Separate but Equal" liberals don't like being called out on it. My bad :cool:

Kyle Reese

03-10-2013, 05:52 PM

I point this out to a woman one afternoon at a picnic during my son's extremely brief tenure at a Waldorf School and the woman jumped out of her seat like she had a JATO in her back pocket. Apparently "Separate but Equal" liberals don't like being called out on it. My bad :cool:

Waldorf, MD? Probably a good call the tenure there was brief. :cool:

NETim

03-10-2013, 06:19 PM

The Left projects?

Holy smokes!!!

:)

TCinVA

03-11-2013, 07:38 AM

Talk to an ofay Birkenstock-wearing liberal neighbor in your bourgeoisie bohemian neighborhood, maybe in the aisle at the local Whole Foods. Get them going on the topic of "semiautomatic weapons". Casually mention that you own a semiautomatic pistol and shoot it in sports and relaxation and see nothing wrong with using it for self-defense, push-come-to-shove (don't tell them that it's on your hip right there in the organic produce department; don't want their head to asplode) and watch them backpedal and say that, well, sure... you're responsible and intelligent and a nice person and white and middle class, they didn't mean take them away from you! Just... you know... from those people... those violent people.

I've met plenty of granola-eating hippie morons who had not the slightest reservation over calling me a sociopath. I'd love to meet some who are so wobbly about their oppressive tendencies that they'll demure when faced with someone who would be directly impacted by their idiocy. It would be a refreshing change over the types who would scream that the sky is magenta rather than concede a point.

Tamara

03-11-2013, 07:59 AM

I've met plenty of granola-eating hippie morons who had not the slightest reservation over calling me a sociopath. I'd love to meet some who are so wobbly about their oppressive tendencies that they'll demure when faced with someone who would be directly impacted by their idiocy. It would be a refreshing change over the types who would scream that the sky is magenta rather than concede a point.

Well, for starters, it helps if you start the conversation with a phrase other than "Look, you ignorant granola-eating sheeple..." ;)

TCinVA

03-11-2013, 08:16 AM

Well, for starters, it helps if you start the conversation with a phrase other than "Look, you ignorant granola-eating sheeple..." ;)

Perhaps. All I did, though, was point out to a coed that a crazy guy with a knife can kill you just as dead as a violent felon with a knife, and that the law recognized lethal force as a reasonable alternative to getting your head cut off in either situation.

My experience with the granola-eating hippie morons is that they respond to facts like a vampire being shown a cross. There's hissing, spitting, and then a lot of flapping around.

Maybe I'm just cursed to walk the earth in a life encumbered by interactions with idiots.

MDS

03-11-2013, 08:40 AM

Maybe I'm just cursed to walk the earth in a life encumbered by interactions with idiots.

I often feel the same way. I go through life more easily, though, when I remember the words of that wise crone: "the chocolate coating makes it go down easier."

peterb

03-11-2013, 09:39 AM

Apparently "Separate but Equal" liberals don't like being called out on it. My bad :cool:

To be fair, I've seen "Love the sinner, hate the sin" conservatives backpedal just as hard when faced with dealing with a real live gay person.

If you can't be honest, you can at least be quiet.

TCinVA

03-11-2013, 10:00 AM

To be fair, I've seen "Love the sinner, hate the sin" conservatives backpedal just as hard when faced with dealing with a real live gay person.

If you can't be honest, you can at least be quiet.

A lot of people hold ideas that, for some reason or another, they've never had to actually pose to anyone and defend intelligently. This naturally leads to hopeless floundering the first time it happens and subsequently after if they don't actually take the time to consider their presentation.

Someone who came to their opinion carefully typically has no problem defending it in the face of the opposition and doing so without being a churlish boor about it.

I'm continually amazed at how many opinions I encounter that were not arrived at with any apparent care or deliberation on the part of the person holding it.

Chuck Haggard

03-11-2013, 10:46 AM

As shocking as this sounds to say coming from me, but maybe I'm just a people person because I actually enjoy those conversations.

A few years ago I was standing outside, in uniform, at my off-duty gig when I was approached by a nice older lady. She wanted me to know how much she liked seeing a copper at the theater she was attending and how she knew we had a tough job and that she supported LE.
After I thanked her for her kind thoughts she threw out that she had marched for handgun control while living in Chicago, one reason was to support the cops with a tough job. I replied that I was against gun control and an NRA Life member.
The look on her face and the wave of emotions was priceless to behold, but I was able to throw a few more facts in, which coming from a street cop seemed to have great weight to her. I felt a bit bad for crashing through her glass house and trashing the place, but I think I actually got through to her just a bit.

In the immortal words of Jack Burton, "Hey, ya never know til you try."

BaiHu

03-11-2013, 11:15 AM

A lot of people hold ideas that, for some reason or another, they've never had to actually pose to anyone and defend intelligently. This naturally leads to hopeless floundering the first time it happens and subsequently after if they don't actually take the time to consider their presentation.

Someone who came to their opinion carefully typically has no problem defending it in the face of the opposition and doing so without being a churlish boor about it.

I'm continually amazed at how many opinions I encounter that were not arrived at with any apparent care or deliberation on the part of the person holding it.

I think this has been an ongoing change in the educating of young people for at least the last 2 decades that I've been teaching martial arts. 15 years ago, 99% of kids in the 8-12 year old range, were still capable of abstraction, hard work, self-discipline and could keep a stiff upper lip if they got rocked occasionally.

Today, that generation of kids is gone. They have no need to critically back anything up, b/c we don't call anyone on failure anymore. Simply showing up 'earns' a reward. It is no wonder people don't have a leg to stand on when an intelligent conversationalist engages them. Most people bloviate and move on without a care in the world, b/c the 'training' environment of the young no longer offers any consequences.

The words courage, discipline, loyalty, honor, honesty are an anathema to a generation that gets trophies just for 'signing up' to a team, gets good grades just so 'no child is left behind', and lawyers ever game they play, especially computer games. I've never been on an online video game in the last 15 years and not encountered cheating and oftentimes gloating along side it-why don't they just paint the scoreboard with 'I win' and call it a day?

Let's not even mention the politicians, business folk, entertainers and athletes and the 'god mode' they possess, b/c they have no law that governs them. I'm not trying to be naive with this last comment, I'm pointing out that the slope went from 'we need to at least act like we're punishing X' to 'don't look that way, a crime is being committed by Y and if we call attention to it, it will backfire on us and we'll end up being seen for the criminals we really are too...shhhh, just walk away.'

So the fact that an anti-gunner never met and/or exchanged a pleasant conversation with 'another kind' of person is not surprising, b/c we have more segregation now than we ever had, it's just 'intellectual' segregation of those 'in control of the information' and 'those that aren't capable of understanding the information' and therefore need to be protected.

It's for the children!

BaiHu

03-11-2013, 11:34 AM

Just came upon this article that supports my point. The letter doesn't get going till the end, so I'll share the link and some highlights, but it's still worth the entire read:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/03/10/i-have-had-enough-veteran-teacher-tells-school-board/?tid=pm_local_pop

You have made us information pushers, test givers, and paper passer outers. LET US TEACH!!! You have taken all of this away. You give us a new common core curriculum that is almost impossible to finish in a year, and now you slide in Compass, new evaluations, JPams, and On Course all in a single year, and all which require more time that we just don’t have. You are setting teachers up to fail. Teaching was once a noble and creative profession. Learning was once fun! If you want kids to stay in school, make them want to come!!!

Our jobs should not depend on two lessons a year. Principals should be able to walk into a classroom any time and do a true evaluation. To tell children that OUR jobs depend on them-well you are giving the students the “upper hand”!

They now have the power and they know it. I have heard some students say that they are not even going to try on the standardized tests. They are even “out” for some teachers and are going to score low on purpose. Many students won’t do their homework or study for tests-WHY? They know they won’t fail because of your policies. You have made it all about “what the teacher needs to do” instead of “what the student needs to do!” HOLD them responsible! Would a doctor lose his job if his diabetic patient didn’t follow their recommendations for losing weight when that patient is hospitalized for his/her choices? Of course not! The educational system is no different. We should not be held responsible for apathy and wrong choices!

If you really want to change one thing in our school system-start with discipline: SIMPLE nothing else, just DISCIPLINE. Follow through from first grade on up to twelfth grade. Be consistent, give consequences. Teachers should not be repeating rules to the same students over and over again. If you would listen to experienced teachers who have good discipline, it works and learning is going on. No fancy programs, no bells and whistles, just the teacher in charge. Stop moving students from school to school. This just dilutes other schools!

You are hiding the problems-NOT solving them! The same students that we saw get away with the “little infractions” over and over, and over again, are the same students that end up in the paper under “local arrests”. We are not here to be popular or please parents, we are here to teach children. Small things like uniforms, gum chewing, and tardies may seem small to you, but to a classroom teacher they are the small things that lead to larger problems like disrespect. If you don’t back us up on these issues, the students know it and lose respect for us. Don’t give in half way through the year, or keep changing things. Follow through. Back your teachers up! You have taken our “power” away. No Discipline=No Teaching-Period!

You have basically taken “morals” and work ethics out of ours schools, yet now our tax money is paying for students to go to private schools where they teach morals and work ethics. I believe we should bring BOTH back to our schools, and this will bring our students back as well.

You want to save one child by not removing them from the classroom or campus because you don’t want THAT child to miss out on learning, but you are doing a TOTAL injustice to the average and above average students who want to learn and know how to behave. The others are NOT learning because teachers are spending their time repeatedly correcting, constantly documenting, meeting one on one, and conferencing with the one child who chooses not to behave. I have about 10 daily behavior plans with only 2 out of the 10 working. Why is this? There is no follow through at home! Teachers work harder than the parents and the child to help that child succeed. If you do not think this is true, again, just ask a classroom teacher!

RoyGBiv

03-14-2013, 05:03 PM

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/03/09/Gabby-Giffords-Husband-Buys-AR-15-Announces-He-s-Not-Keeping-It-After-News-Leaks-Out

The hypocrisy is nothing short of breathtaking....
Hypocrisy....?? ... LINK (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/03/14/Mark-Kelly-s-AR-15-Stunt-Provokes-Giffords-Photo-Leak?utm_source=contentsharing&utm_medium=linkexchange&utm_term=postion1&utm_content=Mark-Kelly-s-AR-15-Stunt-Provokes-Giffords-Photo-Leak&utm_campaign=foxnews)

http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Big-Government/2013/03/14/Giffords.png

The source, who is a member of the law enforcement community, told Breitbart News:

"We were told she wanted to toughen her image. She asked to come out and she wanted to shoot a rifle. She had one of our guys out there to show her how to shoot an AR-15."

TGS

03-14-2013, 06:10 PM

Why is she so proud of missing the target?

Spr1

03-14-2013, 06:12 PM

Wow. "For campaign purposes"

Tamara

03-14-2013, 06:21 PM

Hypocrisy....?? ... LINK (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/03/14/Mark-Kelly-s-AR-15-Stunt-Provokes-Giffords-Photo-Leak?utm_source=contentsharing&utm_medium=linkexchange&utm_term=postion1&utm_content=Mark-Kelly-s-AR-15-Stunt-Provokes-Giffords-Photo-Leak&utm_campaign=foxnews)

No, I'm sorry, but:

1) getting a bullet in the brain might, rightly or wrongly, change somebody's opinions about a few things and,
2) I believe her when she says she's on of those "gun owner, but..." types.

MEH

03-15-2013, 07:39 AM

Yes, it is hypocrisy.

If you profess something and a "life event" changes your mind then just maybe you didn't critically think your way through your original position.

Reminds me of the folks who change their position (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/15/politics/portman-gay-marriage/index.html) on gay marriage when they find out a relative is gay.

Many things people believe are based on emotion and not thought.

In Giffords case, as with all politicians, I don't trust them.

MikeyC

03-15-2013, 08:26 AM

Tamara

03-15-2013, 08:45 AM

I'd be more willing to buy the life changing event motive if everything lined up better. She was shot in the head with a handgun, not an assault rifle, and they're clearly still pro-handgun. Unless of course you're suggesting that her change in stance is related to brain damage, but I'm not reading it that way.

Believe it or not, there are people who have no problem with you being licensed to carry a revolver or even a Glock but who would have you go through an NFA-grade background check to buy an AR, or ban them altogether, or restrict them to ten-round mags. It's true! Not all gun owners are wookie-suiters who shout "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!" at the the idea of background checks.

Personally? When I'm goddess-empress of the planet, you'll be able to buy a Mk 48 out of a vending machine on the street corner, but until then we need to figure out a way to swing these people to our point of view, and I'm pretty sure that opening sentences with "Listen, you hypocritical gun-grabbing traitor..." isn't going to help.

RoyGBiv

03-15-2013, 09:21 AM

Believe it or not, there are people who have no problem with you being licensed to carry a revolver or even a Glock but who would have you go through an NFA-grade background check to buy an AR, or ban them altogether, or restrict them to ten-round mags. It's true! Not all gun owners are wookie-suiters who shout "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!" at the the idea of background checks.
I agree with this generally, but, we're talking specifically about the Giffords here... I'm sticking with Hypocrisy.

Personally? When I'm goddess-empress of the planet, you'll be able to buy a Mk 48 out of a vending machine on the street corner, but until then we need to figure out a way to swing these people to our point of view, and I'm pretty sure that opening sentences with "Listen, you hypocritical gun-grabbing traitor..." isn't going to help.But we're talking among friends here, so, speaking the truth is ok.

MikeyC

03-15-2013, 09:31 AM

BaiHu

03-15-2013, 11:19 AM

One of my students, who is bi-curious* about guns, saw a pro 2A sign on his way to my house for a lesson today-in NJ of all places-so he asked me how serious the situation has become. Is this guy's sign about 'they are going to take away our guns' an actual concern?

Instead of peppering him with my thoughts, I let him watch my new go-to-video of Henson Ong. At one point he said, 'Well I'm not sure if I believe the Tiananmen Square would never happen part, but he was the most eloquent speaker for an immigrant on our country and the 2nd A.' I agreed and said maybe Ong should replace LaPierre. Then I reminded him that if the Chinese had never disarmed the populace to start, then Tiananmen might not have happened due to earlier resistance by the populace. He had to at least acknowledge that as a possibility.

Anywho, after that exchange he said, 'I don't believe for a second that magazine capacity or any other restrictions will stop any criminals. And secondly, all of these mass shootings are typically white boys gone wrong in the head.' I said he needs to speak up more, b/c we need more people like him speaking logically about something they normally don't engage in. We need these intelligent middle grounders speaking up on our behalf more than ever.

*He's a history buff and understands the importance of 2A, but he hasn't gotten the gumption to go shooting with me yet-he's a bit of a firearm-phobe. He's held my Garand, b/c it was a piece of history to him, but I think I've gotten him convinced to at least start on my pellet gun.

NETim

03-15-2013, 04:11 PM

It's true! Not all gun owners are wookie-suiters who shout "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!" at the the idea of background checks.

The nature of government really isn't all that hard to understand though, is it? :confused:

As the great pirate philosopher Mal once said, "That's what governments do. They get in a man's way."

Dan_S

03-15-2013, 04:17 PM

The nature of government really isn't all that hard to understand though, is it? :confused:

As the great pirate philosopher Mal once said, "That's what governments do. They get in a man's way."

I think this article may have some bearing on this subject...

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=arc_ayn_rand_the_nature_of_gov ernment