Reloading press choice

[LHS]

I'm looking into finally doing done reloading, and the myriad choices of components and equipment has me in a bit of a vapor lock. So far I think I want a single stage press to start out, and eventually get a progressive press for volume. Dies anyone have any experience with the Hornady Lock-n-Load? I know the RCBS Rock Chucker is the benchmark in this area, but the Hornady's quick change die feature and 500 free XTP bullets are intriguing. I don't intend to load large volumes on this press, it's more a way to get me into the hobby, and once I get a progressive press down the road, I'll transition the single stage into hunting/precision ammo.

[JV_]

FWIW: You can get the Hornady quick die change on an RCBS RC:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/858110/hornady-lock-n-load-press-and-die-conversion-bushing-kit

I use my Rock Chucker for loading rifle rounds. If I had to do it over again, I would get the Dillon 550B rather than the RC.

I load pistol rounds on a Super 1050.

[John Ralston]

either one would be fine for a single stage - for a progressive, Dillon all the way (I have a L-N-L AP, and would never do it again)

[Corvus]

I would get the Dillon 550. It does not auto index so it is a "single stage" press if you choose to use it that way. Put in one die at a time in the first position and use it just as a single stage press until your are comfortable loading. Then when you are ready you already own a progressive press and if reloading turns out to not be your thing the Dillon has great resale value.

[CCT125US]

I would go the route of the single stage to get my feet wet. However, on the D550, since it does not auto index you must pay very close attention. It is very possible to get out of sequence and double charge a case. A neighbor went with the D550 as his first press and is loading for .38 spec. A tall case and easy to throw a double charge that you can miss. The mental steps I laid out for him are to rotate, place empty cartridge, place bullet, pull / push, repeat. He is not happy with the process. Just something to consider. The cost of D650 or Hornady LNL is not much more BTW. After you get comfortable with the single stage, you can easily duplicate the load on the progressive. I personally feel the manual indexing is a potential failure point. With that being said, adjusting and experimenting with small batches of ammo is a pain with an auto indexer. The single stage is IMO great for working up loads and getting the mental steps down.

[JV_]

I feel the need to reiterate this:


I would get the Dillon 550. It does not auto index so it is a "single stage" press if you choose to use it that way.

If you're worried about double charging during the learning phase, don't use it as a multi-stage press.

When learning, I specifically picked a powder that would overflow if double charged.

[JAD]

There is a stripped down version of the 550, the bl550, that can be upgraded to a full 550. Or get a rock chucker -- either approach will be sound.

[CGA]

either one would be fine for a single stage - for a progressive, Dillon all the way (I have a L-N-L AP, and would never do it again)

I'm looking into presses myself. Just curious ... what was your issue was with the Hornady LNL?

[JConn]

I love my dillon 650. No other experience with other presses. I am loading 9mm.

[LHS]

I certainly plan to get a Dillon progressive (probably a 650 or 1050) when I get a bit more experience under my belt, and want to go for volume production of service pistol or 5.56mm ammo. But I figure a single-stage will be simple and easy to learn on, and I can use it for hunting and/or precision ammo for calibers I shoot in low volume (I plan to start with .44 Mag, and then probably go to 9.3x62mm Mauser, and eventually add .308 and .30-'06 when I get rifles in those calibers). I don't see myself loading more than 50 rounds at a sitting at first.

So far I can get either the Rock Chucker or the single-stage L-N-L in a kit for $300. The only real difference seems to be that Hornady is offering 500 free bullets with theirs. $150 worth of .44 180gr XTPs is tempting. My only concern is that while the Rock Chucker is a well-known and highly regarded press, I haven't found much info on the L-N-L single-stage. If the Hornady is as good as the RCBS, then the free projos and quick-change dies seem to make it a better deal (though having to shell out $50 for bushings for every new caliber does start to eat away at that savings, I don't plan on doing more than two calibers in the reasonably near future on this press).

[SecondsCount]

Buy the Dillon 550, you will be spending the money anyway, one month after you purchase and use a single stage.

Find a buddy or someone in your area that has one and will let you give it a try. You will find that it really isn't as difficult as it seems.

[JAD]

Man, if I spent three bills and wasn't a third of the way into a 550 setup I'd be mad.

I've loaded on 550s and 650s. With the variety you're talking about you'll be just fine if you go down the BL550 path.

[RobG]

I have traveled down this road exactly as you have lain out. My first press was a RCBS Rock Chucker starter kit. That was when I had more time than money. It was a great way to learn reloading because set up was simple and it was easy to adjust the variables. Now that I shoot higher volumes of a single load, I use a Dillon 650. This reloads the same round with precision at 5 times the speed and stays configured for that load. I still use the RCBS for small volume reloading of other caliber pistol rounds, precision rifle, and working up test loads. I do not regret getting the RCBS and think it definitely has a place on my reloading bench, but having to do it all over again, I would have added the Dillon sooner. Good luck.

[BN]

If you're going to get a single stage press, you might as well get a cheap one. That way you won't feel so bad when you get a Dillon. :)

I just checked the survey from the last IDPA Nationals. 189 people used a Dillon, 11 used Hornady, 10 used Lee, 2 used RCBS and 1 used Ammoload 1000.

I started out with the Lee set where you pounded the brass into the die with a stick. :) I kept moving up until I got a Dillon 550 and later I got a 1050 and kept the 550 for smaller batches. Go Blue. You won't be sorry. :)

[John Ralston]

I'm looking into presses myself. Just curious ... what was your issue was with the Hornady LNL?


The AP is Hornady's progressive, and it just isn't 100%. Great concept, not so great execution. Finished round ejection is about 80% (mine is the old wire style, and I have not upgraded to the newest), the ejection wire also interferes with some dies if you use the last station.

I wish I had spent all the money I have into it on a 650.

[EricP]

The first press I bought was a Dillon 550B. It was not a difficult press to learn on and I don't think it is a necessity to start out on a singe stage.

I also have a Hornady LNL (single stage) that I bought with the intent of using for rarely loaded pistol ammo and rifle ammo. The quick change die bushings were a huge factor in buying that press. Being used to the production rates of the 550B, loading on the the single stage was beyond tedious. I ended up purchasing extra tool heads for the 550B. The Hornady now sits as a host for a Dillon Rapid Trim. It is worth mentioning that the Rapid Trim will unlock the Hornady bushings due to the rotation of the cutter if you don't find away of bracing it.

If your purpose in reloading is to make as much ammo as possible in a short amount of time, I don't think you'll be happy with a single stage.

[SecondsCount]

The AP is Hornady's progressive, and it just isn't 100%. Great concept, not so great execution. Finished round ejection is about 80% (mine is the old wire style, and I have not upgraded to the newest), the ejection wire also interferes with some dies if you use the last station.

I wish I had spent all the money I have into it on a 650.

I agree. A friend purchased a Hornady LNL AP last year and I helped him set it up. I found it to be built fairly well but on the clunky side. The 650 is so much smoother and well built.

If you are not happy with your AP, now would be an excellent time to sell it.

[John Ralston]

If you are not happy with your AP, now would be an excellent time to sell it.

Why is that - are they hard to get right now?

[Corvus]

Reloading equipment / supplies are sold out just like most everything else. Good chance you could get all your money back on it.

[John Ralston]

Reloading equipment / supplies are sold out just like most everything else. Good chance you could get all your money back on it.

I will have to look into that - I have a couple single stage presses to get me by (as well as plenty of loaded ammo).



***So, if you know someone that wants a LNL-AP with the powder through expander system, case feeder (small Rifle and pistol) and 45/5.56/40 shell plates, let me know*** It also has the new ejector system, I just haven't installed it yet (all the shell plates were modified by Hornady).

[SPDGG]

The AP is Hornady's progressive, and it just isn't 100%. Great concept, not so great execution. Finished round ejection is about 80% (mine is the old wire style, and I have not upgraded to the newest), the ejection wire also interferes with some dies if you use the last station.

I wish I had spent all the money I have into it on a 650.
imho/fwiw: I havent had that with my LNL, ejection has always been positive. But, I have a Newer LNL with the latest ejection plate/mech. Maybe do the upgrade before passing on your LNL.

Main thing I dislike is the center bolt working its way loose after a couple primer tubes. I do check it often, keep it clean and use a large air bulb to keep any powder grains out of the works of the press.

From the start I have been using a Dillon Powder Check/Buzzer. Just had to do a slight relief for the Dillon PC Rod. The Rod has a larger Washer attached to engage the edge of the plate on the upstroke.

BUT, If I had to do it over I'd probably go Dillon 650/1050. Reason: Ease of having all the dies setup on a tool head with separate powder assembly.

If you don't run tight Match Chambers in your handguns & will not load Rifle cartridges, A great Setup is the Dillon Square Deal B.

To Add: Hornady Customer Service is TOP NOTCH ! Always helpful, never quick to get off the phone with any troubleshoot questions, & great about getting me parts if its under warranty.

[BLR]

From my experience, the 650 and LNL are about on the same level. Each has strong points, and each limitations. An advantage to the LNL is the powder measure. The case feeder is not as good as the Dillon.

Both will serve well, both are from great companies.

FWIW, I have LNLs and 1050s. No 650s.

[John Ralston]

From my experience, the 650 and LNL are about on the same level. Each has strong points, and each limitations. An advantage to the LNL is the powder measure. The case feeder is not as good as the Dillon.

Both will serve well, both are from great companies.

FWIW, I have LNLs and 1050s. No 650s.

What do you like better about the LNL powder measure?

[BLR]

What do you like better about the LNL powder measure?

Accuracy. The LNL measure is 2x + more accurate in my experience.

[Rich]

I started reloading because I never had enough ammo to make practice worth while and was lucky enough to live in the country . shooting range just a few yards from reloaders bench .:cool:

I bought a Dillon Square Deal Press and a Dillon digital scale.
Digital scales is a must have in my book.

Anyway when I bought this little handgun press I knew nothing about reloading except what Ive read from books.

The Dillon Square Deal is so simple to use. All one has to do is measure out evertything. from length to powder charge.

I also found out early some powders work better than others out of the SD Dillon Press.

The Ball type powders seem to measure more consistant. My Dillon SD Press loves AA pistol powders.

Anyway for just starting out the Dillon SD would make a good first reloading press.

Some of my very best groups came from lead bullets and a reloading press.

On the other hand
I also bought a cheap Lee turret press
and found out it can load up a cartridge just as accurate as my Dillon SD

[66L]

It's been said a couple of times, but buy the Dillon RL550B and be done with it. You can treat it as a single stage if you wish. I predict you become "comfortable with reloading" very quickly and will want the speed/options of a progressive. Dillon is renowned for their customer service and tech. support. It could easily be the one and only loader you need to buy for the rest of your life. Having the different tool-heads set up makes rolling different calibers a breeze. I love reloading as a hobby, but single stages are painfully slow by comparison and take some of the joy out of it for me.

[Xenogy]

imho/fwiw: I havent had that with my LNL, ejection has always been positive. But, I have a Newer LNL with the latest ejection plate/mech. Maybe do the upgrade before passing on your LNL.

Main thing I dislike is the center bolt working its way loose after a couple primer tubes. I do check it often, keep it clean and use a large air bulb to keep any powder grains out of the works of the press..

Try dropping a nail in the spent primer hole on station #1 and use it to keep the shellplate holder from indexing. Then crank the center bolt down real good. That's what I did a few weeks back, and atleast 1500rds later it hasn't come loose and my COL has been really consistant.

I bought mine about 2 years ago and as far as ejecting I only had .40 cases get stuck ejecting. Since my switch to 9mm I don't have the problem anymore. The issue with the .40 cases is a widespread issue with the LNL from what I have read. Other calibers eject fine.

[gunkid]

of different levels of adhesion. some require heat to break loose.

[1986s4]

My first reloading experience was with a Rock Chucker press. I read books and did everything step by step. It worked but was so labor intensive and time consuming that I only reloaded a few hundred rounds before I stopped for years. A buddy of mine convinced me to buy a Dillon SQDB with accessories at a gun show back in the late 90's. I have never looked back. When stuff breaks you call Dillon, they ask you what broke and check your address. That's it, a few days later you have it. Even wear items. I would use the Rock Chucker for rifle ammo but my brother has it. My only criticism of the SQDB is that I would love to be able to load .30 carbine but no dice.

[LHS]

Well, I ended up with the Hornady single-stage press, and so far I like it. It is a bit time-consuming, but I'm learning the nuts and bolts of the process and really taking my time making sure everything's right. I worked up a 'hot' .44 Mag load of 180gr XTP over 27gr IMR-4227 with a Federal Large Pistol Magnum primer, and tomorrow I'll start on a 'mild' .44 load. I think I'll start with 200gr LRNFP over 4.3gr IMR-700X and CCI No.300 primer. All with Winchester cases. At this point, I can shoot plinking loads of .44 Mag for about 15 cents per shot. Hell, I might even try my hand at shooting SSR in an IDPA match just for S&G's. Now I need a lever-action carbine for the rifle portion...

I see there are multiple options for cleaning brass now. When I was growing up, Dad used a Dillon case vibratory cleaner, but looking back that seems like a horrible idea, what with the lead dust going everywhere during media separation. The newer ultrasonic cleaners would seem at first glance to keep the lead in the fluid rather than in the air. Any opinions one way or the other?

[John Ralston]

and tomorrow I'll start on a 'mild' .44 load. I think I'll start with 200gr LRNFP over 4.3gr IMR-700X and CCI No.300 primer.

I would caution against doing this...a lower charge of a much slower powder is the way to go for light loads (especially if you are new to reloading). With such a small charge of 700X you could easily double or triple charge a case and visually not notice. That is a quick way to get a new 44...

[EricP]

I see there are multiple options for cleaning brass now. When I was growing up, Dad used a Dillon case vibratory cleaner, but looking back that seems like a horrible idea, what with the lead dust going everywhere during media separation. The newer ultrasonic cleaners would seem at first glance to keep the lead in the fluid rather than in the air. Any opinions one way or the other?

I have one of these (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/176956/rcbs-rotary-case-and-media-separator). It does a pretty good job of keeping the dust contained and out of your face.

[SecondsCount]

I do all of my dry media tumbling outdoors, and store the tumbler and media in the garage.

In the last couple years, wet tumbling has become popular. This process uses the rotary tumblers with dish soap, Lemi-Shine crystals, and stainless pins to get brass looking like new. Youtube has several videos on how to do this and there are kits on the market. For rifle or match grade brass, where someone would want the primer pockets sparkling clean, de-priming before the process is required but the results are very nice.

One thing I have found is that just soaking brass in a half gallon of water mixed with a squirt of dish soap and a 1/4 teaspoon of Lemi-Shine crystals will get brass looking about 90% again. Shake the container every 15 minutes or so, total soak time of about an hour. After that I rinse the brass in clean water, shake it in an old beach towel to get it mostly dry*. Dump it in the dry media tumbler, with corn cob and a brass polish, for another hour. Brass looks brand new and the media lasts forever because most of the crud comes off in the wet process. Also, I never put the lid on the dry media tumbler. This helps the dust to escape and the brass comes out with less of a film.

*Living in a high desert helps things dry faster so you may want to leave a little more time depending on the relative humidity in your area.

[LHS]

I would caution against doing this...a lower charge of a much slower powder is the way to go for light loads (especially if you are new to reloading). With such a small charge of 700X you could easily double or triple charge a case and visually not notice. That is a quick way to get a new 44...

That's definitely something I'm concerned about, and for this particular batch, I will be putting every single charge on an electronic scale (700x doesn't meter for crap anyway). I'm doing a small enough batch that I still manually weigh every finished round as well when I'm done. I'm definitely not taking any of this lightly. Hopefully I can eventually find a more suitable powder for light loads that fills up more of the case, but in today's environment, I was lucky to even find 700x.

[LSP972]

I would get the Dillon 550. It does not auto index so it is a "single stage" press if you choose to use it that way. Put in one die at a time in the first position and use it just as a single stage press until your are comfortable loading. Then when you are ready you already own a progressive press and if reloading turns out to not be your thing the Dillon has great resale value.

This is the best, most concise answer to that question I've ever seen. Tons of information in there, yet not long-winded like I would have replied.

Still, those who find a long reply boring tend to be attention-deficit afflicted and have no business reloading...;)

Bravo, Corvus; excellent response.

.

[LSP972]

The cost of D650 or Hornady LNL is not much more BTW.

Caliber changes on the 650 cost almost twice as much as on the 550; no free lunch. And that Hornady LNL thing... well, it ain't no Dillon.

.

[LHS]

That's definitely something I'm concerned about, and for this particular batch, I will be putting every single charge on an electronic scale (700x doesn't meter for crap anyway). I'm doing a small enough batch that I still manually weigh every finished round as well when I'm done. I'm definitely not taking any of this lightly. Hopefully I can eventually find a more suitable powder for light loads that fills up more of the case, but in today's environment, I was lucky to even find 700x.

Aaaaand my little Hornady kit electronic scale seems incapable of measuring. I was getting variations as much as a full grain with the same exact charge of powder when I measured them repeatedly. So I emptied them all and took a short drive up to Dillon to get a real scale. Just my luck, they had a few in stock, as well as used 30-cal ammo cans for $5 each, so I nabbed a few of those too. I also found that, with this light charge and flake powder, it was easier to load the measuring pan with the powder trickler rather than the full-size measure. It actually went fairly quick, even with repeated measuring and verification. Problem solved, 20 test rounds loaded.

[LSP972]

Aaaaand my little Hornady kit electronic scale seems incapable of measuring. I was getting variations as much as a full grain with the same exact charge of powder when I measured them repeatedly. So I emptied them all and took a short drive up to Dillon to get a real scale. Just my luck, they had a few in stock, as well as used 30-cal ammo cans for $5 each, so I nabbed a few of those too. I also found that, with this light charge and flake powder, it was easier to load the measuring pan with the powder trickler rather than the full-size measure. It actually went fairly quick, even with repeated measuring and verification. Problem solved, 20 test rounds loaded.

I'll wager large that most of the current crop of e-scales are made in the same Chinese sweat shop; and that includes the Dillon. I've gone through THREE different RCBS units, all of which failed within six months, and a Dillon that gave it up within ONE month. By "failed or gave it up" I mean various degrees of unreliability suddenly manifest themselves. I have a laboratory grade e-scale by AccuLab that is amazingly precise; it also costs almost $500. Unfortunately, it is not calibrated to read grains. The one they sell that does is another couple hundred bucks.

These "reloading" scales are made to a price point, as opposed to a level of quality. IMO, they are, in the main, junk. I went back to a simple mechanical beam balance scale. Even most of these offered by the reloading companies are cheap as shit and have a lot of plastic in them. The Redding offering is an exception and is what I went with. What I would give to have my old RCBS 510 back...

.

[LHS]

I'll wager large that most of the current crop of e-scales are made in the same Chinese sweat shop; and that includes the Dillon. I've gone through THREE different RCBS units, all of which failed within six months, and a Dillon that gave it up within ONE month. By "failed or gave it up" I mean various degrees of unreliability suddenly manifest themselves. I have a laboratory grade e-scale by AccuLab that is amazingly precise; it also costs almost $500. Unfortunately, it is not calibrated to read grains. The one they sell that does is another couple hundred bucks.

These "reloading" scales are made to a price point, as opposed to a level of quality. IMO, they are, in the main, junk. I went back to a simple mechanical beam balance scale. Even most of these offered by the reloading companies are cheap as shit and have a lot of plastic in them. The Redding offering is an exception and is what I went with. What I would give to have my old RCBS 510 back...

.

I went with the Dillon balance beam mechanical scale. I figured no electronic scale within my price point would be worth a crap, and I don't want to blow my guns up (or myself).

[JV_]

I have an RCBS Chargemaster and a tuned RCBS 1010. I use the Chargemaster, even if it's just for the scale.