Need a recommendation for Optic for my AR-15

[cclaxton]

My Bushmaster came with a 1X red-dot which works fine for short range. It does not have any iron-sights.

A buddy of mine was telling me about a scope that is combination red-dot scope AND can be used as iron sights...like a 1X mode.

Also, I want to pay less than $500 so that might make it harder.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
CC

[Jay Cunningham]

You should be able to get an Aimpoint PRO for around $400. It's not going to help you with using it like an iron but it's going to be very, very reliable, robust, and have a very long battery life.

[Steady Up]

I'll second Jay's recommendation of the Aimpoint brand. I have a Micro H-1 and an ML2. Both of them have proven to be dead nuts reliable. When I purchase another Aimpoint, it will most certainly be the PRO. Between my H-1 and ML2, I prefer the ML2 only because the larger body allows me to more easily acquire the dot when shooting in odd positions (like when I can't shoulder my stock to get a traditional cheek weld).

[LittleLebowski]

Going cheap with an optic is fraught with peril.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[cclaxton]

Nobody makes scopes to compete with the Trijicon http://www.manventureoutpost.com/products/Trijicon-TA01NSN-ACOG-4x32-w%7B47%7DYllw-Ctr%7B47%7DTA51%7B47%7DIronSts.html

that has built-in iron sights?

Hard to justify optics that cost more than the gun itself.
CC

[LittleLebowski]

Hard to justify optics that cost more than the gun itself.
CC

No, it's not to folks that know the value of good optics and that value hitting the target. My $700 22-250 wears an $800 6-20x Leupold and my only thought after shooting it with the Leupold was why I hadn't done this sooner? Ask yourself why the Swarovski z6i is popular with 3-gunners? If you don't understand then, try shooting Chris Rhines' rifle with the z6i on it. Also take the time to check out long range forums and see what the serious guys are using.

[MEH]

Aimpoint Pro and get magpul backup sights.

[Jay Cunningham]

Nobody makes scopes to compete with the Trijicon http://www.manventureoutpost.com/products/Trijicon-TA01NSN-ACOG-4x32-w%7B47%7DYllw-Ctr%7B47%7DTA51%7B47%7DIronSts.html

that has built-in iron sights?

Hard to justify optics that cost more than the gun itself.
CC

Don't kid yourself, the iron sights built into the top of that are a joke. You may as well index and point shoot. Even a little red dot way up there isn't all that great.

[Kyle Reese]

Nobody makes scopes to compete with the Trijicon http://www.manventureoutpost.com/products/Trijicon-TA01NSN-ACOG-4x32-w%7B47%7DYllw-Ctr%7B47%7DTA51%7B47%7DIronSts.html

that has built-in iron sights?

Hard to justify optics that cost more than the gun itself.
CC

Depends on the performance you expect to get of your carbine. You'll get out of if what you invest in it, as a general rule. If you spend $200 on Chinese knock off optic, expect to replace it in short order. No one is saying to by a S&B Short Dot, but a quality variable optic isn't something you can go cheap on.

My Recce carbine wears a Nightforce 1-4x24, with FC2 reticle. It wasn't inexpensive, but it's survived several carbine classes (LAV x2, Tiger Swan x2 & some others) and given excellent service in the 4 years that I've owned it.

[GJM]

I would run just a DD fixed rear iron sight, or a Troy rear, with a good white light, before I spent good money on a crappy optic.

[JV_]

I would run just a DD fixed rear iron sight, or a Troy rear, with a good white light, before I spent good money on a crappy optic.

I agree. I'd always pick good irons over a crappy optic.

[TGS]

A buddy of mine was telling me about a scope that is combination red-dot scope AND can be used as iron sights...like a 1X mode.


Nobody makes scopes to compete with the Trijicon http://www.manventureoutpost.com/products/Trijicon-TA01NSN-ACOG-4x32-w%7B47%7DYllw-Ctr%7B47%7DTA51%7B47%7DIronSts.html

that has built-in iron sights?

I think it might help everyone else (and yourself) if we figure out what you're actually looking for. Seems like there's some confusion.

A Trijicon ACOG is not a red dot sight (RDS). It is a fixed low power compact scope. Depending on the model, it may or may not come with an illuminated reticle. With some ACOGs, there is the option of having a piggy-backed red dot sight, or with the TA01 some completely useless, non-regulated iron sights. Using either these sights or a piggy backed RDS is not a "1x mode", it's basically a backyard mechanic's stop-gap. Their efficacy is highly questionable, being you have no cheek weld when using a piggy backed RDS; a cheekweld is important to quick target acquisition unless your school of shooting is from General Butt Naked's army under Liberian warlord Roosevelt Johnson.

No, there is nothing to compete with an ACOG. There are Chinese knockoff's branded under the names of SIG, Swiss Arms, UTG/Leapers, and NCStar. These don't compete in any way, unless your sole purpose of buying the optic is to say you have an optic and take pictures.

Your use of the verbiage "1x mode" makes me think you're looking for a variable low-power optic, however. There are tons of patrol rifle optics with magnification ranging from 1x to 8x. When set to 1x, they can be used like a red dot sight however are still "scopes", not red dot sights, and thus will still have an eye box and eye relief. For a decent, dependable functional one you're looking at $400. I have one....the Burris MTAC. I like it for what it is and trust it, but I also see why it's $400 and don't kid myself about it being just as good as a legit duty optic suitable for being banged around. The variable power scopes will also weigh about twice as much as an ACOG....it is very noticeable.

Your final option is an RDS with a flip-to-side (or screw-on) 2-3x magnifier mounted behind it. Regular 1x RDS when you want it, or fixed 2 or 3x magnification when you want it. You could buy ones for under $200, but the magnifiers are pretty chinsy/low quality and the RDS will likely quit on you around 2 years of use. You can add up the replacement cost versus buying an Aimpoint once and see which option is actually cheaper.

[Jay Cunningham]

There are so-called "etched reticule" 1x optical sights out there which match the description of what you say you're looking for. I'm thinking Leuopold Mark 4 CQ/T and Tactical Prismatic Riflescopes, and some goofy Russian stuff like the PK-AS. I'm not recommending them, just advising of their existence.

[Dave J]

Nobody makes scopes to compete with the Trijicon http://www.manventureoutpost.com/products/Trijicon-TA01NSN-ACOG-4x32-w%7B47%7DYllw-Ctr%7B47%7DTA51%7B47%7DIronSts.html
that has built-in iron sights?


Well, the Elcan Specter DR kind of fits that description. But I don't think you'd want one.

[cclaxton]

OK, I need a scope that will allow me to make shots up to 200 yards.
I need iron sights and/or a red-dot for closer targets.
I will be using this for IDPA DMG 3-gun.

Thanks,
CC

[TGS]

OK, I need a scope that will allow me to make shots up to 200 yards.
I need iron sights and/or a red-dot for closer targets.
I will be using this for IDPA DMG 3-gun.

Thanks,
CC

If the targets at 200 require magnification to identify, I think the cheapest functional option would be either a Burris MTAC 1-4x24 (http://swfa.com/Burris-1-4x24-MTAC-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P50898.aspx) or Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 (http://swfa.com/Vortex-Viper-PST-Rifle-Scopes-C2860.aspx). Vortex has better customer service, and arguably better glass than the Burris, but you may prefer the Burris MTAC reticle for closeup stuff. There's other low power variable scopes in that price range from other manufacturers, but the MTAC and Viper PST seem to be the most popular from when I researched (I bought the MTAC). Add a cat-tail to help with transitioning between 1x to 4x.

I think either of these two will serve you well as long as you're mindful of their limitations. If you bang them hard enough, they might not hold zero. The illumination will be washed out when in outdoors daylight, as well. One of the reasons I bought the MTAC is because of how people described the illumination brightness as "nuclear" at its highest setting. It most certainly is....but only when indoors. Thankfully daylight illumination wasn't something I was terribly concerned with, but it's just one point of demonstration in the performance/quality difference between a $400-$500 scope and a $800+ Trijicon Accupoint or SWFA SS.

If the targets at 200 do not require magnification to identify, I would go with a used Aimpoint. The weight difference between an RDS and previously mentioned low power variable scopes will be very noticeable in weapons manipulations/handling.

[Chris Rhines]

I'm not familar with IDPA Multigun course design, but if it's anything like 3GN or outlaw 3-gun, some magnification will be a huge help in engaging long targets. These aren't IDPA targets out at 200+ yards - they're generally 10" (or smaller) steel plates, and they're often tough to see.

Unless you're shooting in an irons-only division, you don't want or need backup irons on a 3gun rifle. You'll never use them, and they're just dead weight on your gun.

If your budget is ~$500, the Burris MTAC is a solid performer. If you can spend ~$1000, the Leupold Multigun VX-6 and the Meopta Meostar 1-4x22KD are rugged scopes, fairly light, and both have daylight-visible illuminated reticles; a HUGE help in hosing close targets. If your budget is unlimited, the Swarovski Z6i-BRT is the best practical rifle scope you can buy right now, and for $2400 it should be...

If you can't afford $4-500 for an optic, shoot irons until you can.

[JMS]

Hard to justify optics that cost more than the gun itself.

There was a time when the only device with an objective lens/laser aperture that hung off an M4/M16A4, and was less expensive to replace than that weapon, was a PEQ device. Not the case, any longer....

It's EASY to justify optics that cost more than the gun itself....presuming you want them to work and be durable enough to work for a long time under a certain level of abuse.

I think Chris did a really good job of King Solomon-ing things in his post in particular, and you've got some good recommendations in the thread in general.

[SPDGG]

Another Vote for a Aimpoint RD.
Also, agree w/ = Fixed Irons + Quality Light before spending any coin on a lower quality/unproven optic.

fwiw: I've had various optics for the AR platform in the past, but always go back to the Aimpoint Comp line.
For approx. $400 shipped the PRO is hard to beat.

[cclaxton]

Thanks for all the great information.. I am still looking at my options.
I looked at the Aimpoints and Bushnell's. Not sure Bushnell is a good quality brand.

Any good/bad opinions of the Burris AR-332 Prism RD 3X sight?

Any advantage or disadvantage to a prism sight or is that just a marketing thing?

Thanks, again.
CC

[Little Creek]

I just put a Leupold scope, Mark AR MOD 1 1.5 x 4, and mount on my DDM4V7lw. It has a variable green dot. I like it. I like Leupold in general. I works out to 200 yards. I have not tried it beyond 200 yards. I think the MOD 1 was introduced at the SHOT show this year.

[BoppaBear]

I run a PRO with MBUS as my back-sights...they co-witness perfectly. The PRO has been a great optic so far, but is a 1x.