An argument for the Sig

[GJM]

For as long as I can remember, I have shot Glock and HK pistols. I really appreciated the quality, accuracy and reliability of the HK, and especially the hammer/long trigger of the LEM system. The problem is I shoot Glock pistols better than the HK, especially one hand. This has led to a yoyo between the hammer (HK) versus performance (Glock) tradeoff.

I last shot a Sig about 10 or 15 years ago, and then only a little. I never understood why anyone would want "two triggers," and assumed the Sig was foisted onto organizations largely as a risk management tool with the DA trigger to keep folks shooting themselves or others they didn't intend to. The use of the 226 by elite units of the Navy seemed curious, but I didn't give it too much thought. After following some TDA threads, about a year ago, including JV's experiment, I decided I ought to get a Sig, and figure out to shoot it -- both to round out my ability and satisfy my curiosity as to whether the platform was shootable. Early last summer, I won a GunBroker auction for a new 226R as a ridiculously low price, and off and on, over the last months shot a few rounds thru it.

About a month ago, I decided to focus on shooting the 226 as a winter project. Pretty quickly, I was very impressed by the Sig's accuracy. While that wasn't surprising, what was surprising was I actually liked the trigger. As I thought about the Sig's attributes, they seemed a good match for my interests. Here is what I liked:

1) The heavier, longer DA trigger and hammer are great for appendix carry. The trigger guard is large enough to work with gloves in a cold environment which describes where I live.

2) The DA trigger has great roll and is easy to get a surprise break with. It feels like a good revolver trigger, and while heavier, is easy to get a surprise break with than the LEM trigger. The SRT SA trigger feels like cheating, and right from the get go, I was getting faster splits than the HK or Glock.

3) The pistol is extremely accurate. I recall hearing second hand from SLG, that TLG tested a bunch of Sig pistols with a laser off sand bags, and they shot like 1-2 inches at 25 yards.

4) The 226 has been very reliable, and I haven't had a single stoppage in the approximate 2,000 rounds I have thru it. The Sig does not seem grip sensitive, and no matter how I hold it, including one hand, it has been reliable.

5) I like the construction of the magazines. They feel good handling, and they are trim enough that they seem to carry easier.

6) I really like how the E2 grip feels in my hands, and find it to have just the right amount of texture for carry and shooting.

7) It is fun to dry fire the Sig, because I can work the DA press without resetting the trigger, and then release the trigger just a tad simulating the SA second shot.

8) The pistol is extremely fast to do slide lock reloads with.

9) The 226 has very modest recoil.

10) .22 uppers are available for training, and mine seems to run with CCI AR Tactical ammo.

I dry fired the 226 a lot for about 10 days when I couldn't get to the range in Alaska, and then had my first dedicated live fire session with it Wednesday, when I put 1,000 +/- rounds thru it, and shot my G34 too for some comparisons. Pretty quickly, I was able to run the DA/SA transition without conscious thought. I have shot it some on successive days, and the pistol continues to grow on me. I am still working my grip to avoid interference with the slide stop, and hope I can be consistent with that. Otherwise I will trim it, like JV did. I am not going to quote times, because they only mean something relative to my performance with other platforms, but right off, I am seeing the potential for my performance with the Sig to be better than the Glock or HK.

Shooting one hand, the 226 rocks -- both shot one with the great rolling DA press, followed by that cheating SA trigger. When I think about my ability to shoot well with one hand, it comes down to aggressive prepping of the trigger, and frankly the SRT SA Sig trigger makes that a lot easier as it has so little travel.

I only wish I had figured this out years ago, and look forward to gathering more data.

[Tamara]

I really liked my P228s.

You know you've been on the internets too long when you start free-associating posts; this line


5) I like the construction of the magazines. They feel good handling, and they are trim enough that they seem to carry easier.

caused me to have a sudden flashback to this guy (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=545416&postcount=21), who was always claiming that SIG magazines would spontaneously pop open along the seam in the back, a failure mode I have yet to see for some reason.

[JV_]

I regret getting rid of my 226, I'm already looking for a replacement.

I don't have the same regrets for the 229, but I did like the increased slide velocity.

[JDM]

Awesome thread.

[John Ralston]

I like my P220 and my P229. Wish the 229 was a 9 though (hind sight...it's a wonderful thing). I changed the P229 over to the E2 grip, which I like much better. I put a 22 conversion on the P229 as well, which makes for some cheap practice.

[GJM]

John, for +/- $350 you can buy a complete caliber exchange kit from Osage Guns (and I am sure others) that will turn your 229 .40 into a 9 (using 229-1 9mm magazines).

[JodyH]

I really liked my P228s.

You know you've been on the internets too long when you start free-associating posts; this line



caused me to have a sudden flashback to this guy (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=545416&postcount=21), who was always claiming that SIG magazines would spontaneously pop open along the seam in the back, a failure mode I have yet to see for some reason.
Trip down memory lane... the Wild Romanian was quite the internet gun guru wasn't he?

[Kyle Reese]

I regret getting rid of my 226, I'm already looking for a replacement.

I don't have the same regrets for the 229, but I did like the increased slide velocity.

I gave the 229 a good home. :D

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[John Ralston]

John, for +/- $350 you can buy a complete caliber exchange kit from Osage Guns (and I am sure others) that will turn your 229 .40 into a 9 (using 229-1 9mm magazines).

I have buddy who is a Sig dealer...I will give him a shout and see if I can get one coming. I would shoot it A TON more than I do now. Chances are I would sell the 40 upper half and be out nothing. Plus I have a pile of 40 bullets, brass and factory rounds I could sell off and get myself an SPR Barrel for my next AR Project too.

Thanks for the heads up - I had no idea they were available.

[orionz06]

Borrowed this briefly, I wanted to hate it but couldn't.

http://i.imgur.com/5emhZ.jpg

[CCT125US]

A buddy of mine had a 229E2 that helped pave the way for my use of the P30 V3 (DA/SA). It was a great pistol, very accurate and stupid fast trigger. Please don't ask me to define "stupid fast".... it's a memory of years past. I certainly would not hesitate to carry one today.

[JM Campbell]

I was shooting a SP2022 today....really digging it.

[BCL]

I've been toying with the idea of getting a 226 and/or a 229 lately. With the E2 grips and SRT trigger, both options seem like a win to me.

[98z28]

I was shooting a SP2022 today....really digging it.

I just picked up a pair of SP2022's that will be getting a good workout this year. Over the last year and a half I've bought a P226 w/SRT, a P239 w/SRT, an SP2022, a G17, a S&W M&Pc, and an HK P30 LEM (all 9mm) trying to figure out what works best for me. It was a lot cheaper when someone issued me a gun and I had to live with it.

My favorite was the SP2022, but it was impossible to find holsters for. The lack of holsters was a deal killer, so I sold it and kept the P30.

JRC Custom now has one of the new Exeter made SP2022's with the new rail, so he can make any of his holsters for it. :cool:

The SP2022 was just as accurate as the P226 and P30, but it was much "softer" shooting. To be fair, I haven't seen any meaningful differences in split times, but it didn't feel as challenging to track the front sight on the Sig Pro. In fact, it almost felt like cheating when shooting Bill Drills back-to-back with the other guns. The trigger on the SP2022 is buttery smooth, the reset is darn near as quick as the SRT, and it has less over travel than the P226 I had.

It also helps that you can buy two SP2022's at retail for less than one used P30. Top Gun Supply has just about any part you might need for the Pro's.

Orionz06,

The P250's are really intriguing, but I'm not man enough to drop my own cash on one. Caleb had good things to say about his experience with one. Has anyone else put a lot of rounds through a recent production P250? Are they holding up any better than the early ones?

[PPGMD]

caused me to have a sudden flashback to this guy (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=545416&postcount=21), who was always claiming that SIG magazines would spontaneously pop open along the seam in the back, a failure mode I have yet to see for some reason.

On old German JP Sauer zipper back magazines, it can happen. Rare, but it can happen. Never seen it, or heard of it happening on the Italian Mecgar made magazines.

[Tamara]

Borrowed this briefly, I wanted to hate it but couldn't.

I can hate it for you, then. :p

[GJM]

I am interested in tips from others for coming up the Sig learning curve ASAP.

JV helped me with an intermittent heeling problem, as any shots I missed would be slightly high. JV pointed out that my support hand position controlled this, and sure enough problem solved. SLG has also been helping. At his suggestion, most of my drills have been two shots, to get maximum reps of the DA/SA transition. Today, I shot groups on the 3x5 at 25 yards, and the 8 inch circle at 50 yards, all DA, and was amazed how small my groups were DA.

[wmu12071]

Really, I was just getting over my desire for a Sig. I currently shoot glocks even though I shoot da/sa guns better. I'll be watching this thread to see what happens.

[98z28]

Anything that makes you work the first DA shot and the transition from DA to SA will help pull you up the learning curve. Here are a few of our DoW that I like to revisit:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2862-DotW-17-2-shot-Draw-on-Two-Targets
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3037-DotW-19-2-Shot-SHO-amp-WHO-Draws
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3239-DotW-21-Press-Six
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4711-Week-35-3x5-in-5



You've been working the LEM for a while, so I suspect you will find DA/SA isn't that hard to wrap your head around. Honestly, I think the first DA shot is easier to master than the LEM. The Sig DA is heavier than the LEM, but it is a consistent, smooth level of resistance all the way through (or should be). I was constantly having to fight anticipation with the two-stage LEM. It was a pure mental game as the trigger pull shouldn't be any different between a DA trigger and the LEM, but the change in resistance in the LEM is challenging to ignore.

Most folks (me included) have more trouble anticipating the first SA shot following a DA shot than they do mastering the first DA pull. Working drills like the above will help. I like to run some of the non-timed drills with a mix of ball and dummies once in a while.

I have also found that the P226 requires a firmer grip than something like a G17 to help with sight tracking. The front sight can seem a little sloppy in recoil, but a more solid grip helps it track straighter.

[VolGrad]

The last email blast from CDNN had 226 9mm for 499. In case anyone is looking .....

[JAD]

This is speaking to me. I want to run a 'modern' pistol as a discipline thing, but don't like plastic; I have been geeking out over the relentless stream of M11 ads that have been in the gun rags recently; I want to evaluate the 1911-trigger-as-crutch thing; and I've been employing AIWB a bit more lately and was not reconciling that with GLOCKs very well.

So what's the school solution as far as variants go? I would think I'd prefer a 229 versus 226 since this would be an all the time pistol; the SAS seems to have the right components.

How hard is it to gunbroker a German 228?

Are any of the currently sold SIGs made in Germany?

How much would I hate myself if I got a .357 SIG?

[John Ralston]

I like the grip on the P226 better than the P229 (the P229 has a funky bulge up near the slide stop). I like the E2 grip on the P229 much better than the standard though.

[GJM]

You've been working the LEM for a while, so I suspect you will find DA/SA isn't that hard to wrap your head around. Honestly, I think the first DA shot is easier to master than the LEM. The Sig DA is heavier than the LEM, but it is a consistent, smooth level of resistance all the way through (or should be). I was constantly having to fight anticipation with the two-stage LEM. It was a pure mental game as the trigger pull shouldn't be any different between a DA trigger and the LEM, but the change in resistance in the LEM is challenging to ignore.

Interesting, I feel that it is easier to be very aggressive with the Sig DA than the LEM, since the Sig DA trigger is linear. By comparison, working the the P30 I need to do the initial take-up and then roll through the rest of the press.

[GJM]

This is speaking to me. I want to run a 'modern' pistol as a discipline thing, but don't like plastic; I have been geeking out over the relentless stream of M11 ads that have been in the gun rags recently; I want to evaluate the 1911-trigger-as-crutch thing; and I've been employing AIWB a bit more lately and was not reconciling that with GLOCKs very well.

So what's the school solution as far as variants go? I would think I'd prefer a 229 versus 226 since this would be an all the time pistol; the SAS seems to have the right components.

How hard is it to gunbroker a German 228?

Are any of the currently sold SIGs made in Germany?

How much would I hate myself if I got a .357 SIG?

My preference is DA/SA with the SRT trigger. I don't like the short trigger (that is the trigger and not the SRT which is about reset) as it pinches my trigger finger between the trigger and frame.

Sean M, and JV make a strong case for the 226. I am wearing my 226 now in a JM Custom appendix, and it is concealable under just a t shirt. The 229 is a smidge shorter in the grip, but hardly enough to matter under most garments. I also have a 229 SAS, and think that is the way to go in a 229, as it is very smooth. On my 226, I ended up having the edges rounded on the beaver tail area (not the Elite or whatever Sig causes their 1911 beaver tail thing, just the classic model), as my high grip was irritating the web of my hand. No such problem with the SAS.

I have a German 228, and purists seem to like them. You will end up sending it in for an E2 grip and SRT anyways. TLG and others point out that the modern pistols with stainless slides, coated with Nitron, hold up better to high round counts. The 228 is +/- 3 ounces lighter than the 229, all based on the slide. The modern stainless slide is obviously more rust resistant. If you want a 228, go on GunBroker and get a CPO (certified pre-owned one).

I don't get hung up on made in Germany versus US, especially with the 9mm models.

I think a .357 Sig 226/229 would be a terrible hard use shooting gun, as in hard on you, the pistol, and anyone shooting near you. However, I wouldn't hesitate to start with the 9mm model, but for $350 buy a caliber exchange kit in .40 or .357 Sig to plop on your lower for special purposes. I got .40 because I want to run .40 hard cast loads for Alaska, which I think will out penetrate FMJ penetrator loads from a 10mm. (My 229 .40 seems to feed the hard cast and shoot POI with HST/Ranger.)

[John Ralston]

Interesting, I feel that it is easier to be very aggressive with the Sig DA than the LEM, since the Sig DA trigger is linear. By comparison, working the the P30 I need to do the initial take-up and then roll through the rest of the press.

Do you have the TLG Version? I never even notice the stacking - by the time I get to it I am already through it.

[GJM]

Do you have the TLG Version? I never even notice the stacking - by the time I get to it I am already through it.

I do, multiple copies. On each of them, there is take up, then a change in the trigger feel before the trigger breaks. On my Sig pistols, the DA trigger is linear from start to finish.

[CCT125US]

Several students in recent classes have shot very well with my V3. Some were used to a striker fired gun, the VERY first DA shot led to a flinch since the gun did not go off when expected. (Yep, not all guns break at 5lbs) Sometimes the look of "I think your gun is broken" is humorous. However, the next DA shot was on target since it has no stacking or indication it is about to break. As long as they had a proper sight picture, and maintained it through the pull, they shot very well. One guy was decocking after each shot and working the DA, and made the comment that the feedback from seeing the hammer cocking let him know he was working the trigger. He had on heavy gloves and said his fingers were sort of numb from the cold. I thought of you GJM, and how shooting in Alaska presented its own set of challenges. BTW, it was really cold at 29 degrees :)

[John Ralston]

I do, multiple copies. On each of them, there is take up, then a change in the trigger feel before the trigger breaks. On my Sig pistols, the DA trigger is linear from start to finish.

Mine has take up too, but it doesn't really change until right at the end, and when I am shooting at speed it seems to just roll right through to the break. It definitely is different than my P220 and P229, which as you say are the same from start to finish, but I do like the P30's consistent trigger pull on every shot.

[Tamara]

I want to run a 'modern' pistol as a discipline thing, but don't like plastic...

Every time somebody talks about how they don't "like" plastic guns or they don't like a certain gun because it's "ugly", I want to go all Gurney Hallek: "'Like'? What has 'like' to do with it? ... 'Like's' a thing for cattle or making love or playing the baliset. It's not for fighting."

Okay, that's out of my system. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. :D

[JAD]

Every time somebody talks about how they don't "like" plastic guns...

I recognize the logic, but since most handguns provide equal levels of suck, you might as well get one you enjoy. There is no 'best' handgun out of the top tier (hmm, twenty? Could we name 20 platforms of reasonable equivalency?), so it is most reasonable to get the cheapest or the one that pleases you most. Spending an extra five bills on a pistol isn't going to retard my ammo / training budget (I don't have those; my time constraints, which currently are wearing pull-ups, far outweigh my financial constraints), so I think it's entirely reasonable and defensible to choose a handgun because it looks cool. I do appreciate a dune quote, though (as long as it's from the first book).

[JAD]

Sean M, and JV make a strong case for the 226.)

Excellent post, thank you. Is the 226 vs 229 examination on pf? 'Sig,' '229,' etc. are all too short for search terms.

[GJM]

I believe Sean's comments are in the recent, multi page Sig 239 thread:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?6350-Sig-P239-opinions-and-experiences

Can't remember whether JV's comments are in that thread or direct communication when he was solving my heeling issue.

[JV_]

I prefer the 229s faster slide movement, but that's about it. I prefer the 226, over the 229, because:

It's easier to reload
I don't like that the grips extend below the frame on the 229
With E2 grips, the 226 mag release is much easier to hit. They made the grips too fat in this area on a 229:

https://cvpjxw.dm1.livefilestore.com/y1pV0feiOmSvzY6mvCyd9uWd_bmiNJ3a99tYuosSvaypw7YhCh 2OKEpYVLx7k3vZDoFs58vuspqBMgqLUKXf2yA6vvDvjwBG5vn/IMG_8788.jpg?psid=1

[ToddG]

Interesting, I feel that it is easier to be very aggressive with the Sig DA than the LEM, since the Sig DA trigger is linear. By comparison, working the the P30 I need to do the initial take-up and then roll through the rest of the press.

Like Ralston, I never notice the mostly weightless take-up of the LEM (and in fact, I set my guns up to have more resistance through that space, not less). It shouldn't be shot in two stages. The trigger should move in one consistent non-stop motion.

As for the SIG, especially with the SRT, I agree 100% that it's a great trigger and woefully under appreciated. I still have one of the original prototype sets (just the two SRT parts, not a gun equipped with them) that I was using before the SRT ever hit the market, and from that moment I tried to champion the idea of making the SRT standard on all TDA SIGs. If you can learn to operate the DA stroke properly -- something far easier to do than most people realize, and most instructors want to admit -- then the followup shots are ridiculous. A slightly tuned P226 or P229 w/SRT can have a single action trigger pull as short and light as a competition 1911, while still providing the safety benefit of a long, heavy trigger stroke for the first shot.

The negative is that a significant percentage of the people I know who get post-2005 SIG pistols have issues with them. Every few months you here "the problems are resolved, SIG is doubling its QA efforts." But then takedown levers start falling off the guns, trigger bars break, and so on. The most recent sample I saw was an early 2012 production gun that started having trigger reset issues... something that has been happening on and off with the SRT for years.

Having said that, I'd love to do a year long test of an SRT-equipped P229. I think it's one of the handiest, most shootable pistols on the market. With relatively little maintenance, they are also ridiculously durable. They've been around so long, options for sights, grips, holsters, etc. are almost as good as a Glock or 1911.

[JM Campbell]

And the next test subject has been chosen.....:cool:

[ToddG]

And the next test subject has been chosen.....:cool:

Doubtful. I've approached SIG about it a couple of times, but my history with the company won't be soon forgotten. Neither am I a popular figure given the times I've pointed out their QC/QA issues. I'd be impressed (and amazed) if SIG was willing to "put up or shut up," but from their viewpoint I doubt they think I'd be a fair reviewer.

[BCL]

You could always do it like you did the Glock test - without the manufacturer's backing.

[JM Campbell]

Doubtful. I've approached SIG about it a couple of times, but my history with the company won't be soon forgotten. Neither am I a popular figure given the times I've pointed out their QC/QA issues. I'd be impressed (and amazed) if SIG was willing to "put up or shut up," but from their viewpoint I doubt they think I'd be a fair reviewer.

OH so true....I just will never understand why companies can't see that proof is in the pudding and not their marketing hype. I would actually give a Sig DA/SA a run for the money if it did well in your testing...just not willing on the gamble uninformed with good test data.

Just my .02

[JV_]

I would actually give a Sig DA/SA a run for the money if it did well in your testing...just not willing on the gamble uninformed with good test data

The only thing holding me back from buying a pair of 226s is the price. A new 226 is almost 2X the cost of a Glock.

[John Ralston]

Does the SRT work with all versions of the P229? I would definitely like to try it out, but mine is a pre 94 model.

I would also like to give it a go on my P220, but it is older as well.

**ETA** Apparently it does...so now to find a couple kits!

[PPGMD]

Doubtful. I've approached SIG about it a couple of times, but my history with the company won't be soon forgotten. Neither am I a popular figure given the times I've pointed out their QC/QA issues. I'd be impressed (and amazed) if SIG was willing to "put up or shut up," but from their viewpoint I doubt they think I'd be a fair reviewer.

You can always buy it off the shelf like you did with the Glock 17.

I would get an American made frame with the new larger extractor just to take it all the way to the extreme. Since many of the Sig collectors think those are the end of the world.

You know only recently has my arsenal of M&Ps start to rival my collection of Sigs, I bought quite a few of them over the few years I was shooting Sigs. Though I am still a couple of years away from reaching the round count I have with Sigs I didn't keep records those early years but based on what I had the final couple of years I probably have around 50k through the main Sigs.

My favorite is still this fella right here:
http://www.lazyeights.net/Avion/Sig_226_STBR_IPSC_Med.jpg

It doesn't look nearly as good now, as there is an almost permanent stain of gun powder on the front inch of the slide. You know I should probably pull her out to make sure she is still in good condition.

[GJM]

John, I just sent a 225 into Sig for a SRT and action job, and that is a 90's pistol.

[PPGMD]

Does the SRT work with all versions of the P229? I would definitely like to try it out, but mine is a pre 94 model.

I would also like to give it a go on my P220, but it is older as well.

I installed SRT on this pistol:
http://www.lazyeights.net/Avion/MiscGunPics/SigP220-19mmLeft.jpg

P220 with the original thin serrated trigger, old style main spring (which got replaced with the new plastic base), 9mm. No issues whatsoever. Though I should point out that I used one of the earlier versions ones that didn't come with the decocking lever. The new ones come with a decocking lever for the P220 so I am not sure if they fit.

Oh for those that don't know, Top Gun Supply sells SRT kits now. You no longer have to go through an armorer (including the ones online that were selling them for $100 when Sig sold them at a price point that supported a $55 MSRP) or Sig.

http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-srt-kits/

[ToddG]

Last I knew -- and I'm definitely not up to date -- the SRT would work in any 9mm, .40, or 357 pistol. However, a different trigger spring was needed for the P239... something the company didn't figure out until after delivering a thousand pistols to an agency that promptly began breaking the springs.

As for a self-funded SIG test, I don't see it in the same light as the Glock test. The gen4 Glock was just coming out and people were clamoring for information about it. I received countless requests from people to test it. There wasn't decades of information about the gun already out there. And, unlike the SIG, I didn't personally have years of serious training with one so (like the 1911) it was something new and interesting for me. I was also able to get quite a bit of unofficial support from Glock whereas anyone at SIG who tried to help me with a P229 test would probably get fired.

Finally, on a personal note, I just don't see investing five figures of my own money to support a company that fired me unceremoniously. :cool:

[John Ralston]

I know where you're coming from!

Now to find a couple SRT Kits...Top Gun Supply is out and I won't pay a premium : )

[ST911]

I prefer the 229s faster slide movement, but that's about it. I prefer the 226, over the 229, because:

What are you describing here? The time from slide lock to battery?

[JV_]

What are you describing here? The time from slide lock to battery?

The slide velocity. From bang to slide fully retracted, to fully closed.

[BCL]

Double post.

[Surf]

I carry a Sig P226 daily and have done so for about 12 years now. Ungodly amount of rounds via my training P226 as it is the most fired pistol that I have. I prefer the 226 over the 229 also. I also utilize an SRT trigger set up. Might be doing some serious testing of the upcoming P227 but some details need to be worked out.

Todd - I should be in Exeter in April. I can drop your name and see how they feel about getting you a 229 to beat on. Or should I just keep that one to myself. :confused: ;)

[GJM]

Just finished a range session with my 2012 226R with SRT, Heinie sights and otherwise stock.

I am 2,300 rounds since new, without a stoppage or cleaning. Just ran a bore snake thru the barrel three times and lubed the rails.

Was shooting at 50 yards, verifying my exact rear sight position (took some fiddling with the brass punch). Worst 5 shot group was 6 or 7 inches, and best five shot group at 50 yards was under four inches. I was also doing press outs strong and support hand only at 7 yards to the 3x5, and really enjoying the rolling DA trigger on shot one, at which time shot 2 hitting is a given if you don't go to sleep. I finished up with DA press outs to an 8 inch steel at 50 yards.

Slide stop interference is still giving me intermittent problems -- may have to do the JV dremel fix.

[taadski]

The only thing holding me back from buying a pair of 226s is the price. A new 226 is almost 2X the cost of a Glock.

JV,

I followed your most recent foray into Sigdom with interest. And your subsequent return to the Glock platform. Have you had another change of heart (or mind)?



...However, a different trigger spring was needed for the P239... something the company didn't figure out until after delivering a thousand pistols to an agency that promptly began breaking the springs.

Todd, could you elaborate on this a bit? Are you talking about back when the trigger bar springs didn't have the coil loop in them? Or a different change perhaps I'm unaware of? I've installed a bunch of SRTs and specifically have a P239 I put one in without issue, but I think it was after I'd already transitioned to the coil style spring.



GJM,

Does your 2012 226 have the new long extractor? I just bought another 9mm 226 exchange kit the other week that has the new external long one but I've only got 5 or 600 rounds through it at this point. Just curious. Anyone know of any reported issues with them?


TIA all,

T

[GJM]

JV,
GJM,

Does your 2012 226 have the new long extractor? I just bought another 9mm 226 exchange kit the other week that has the new external long one but I've only got 5 or 600 rounds through it at this point. Just curious. Anyone know of any reported issues with them?


TIA all,

T

I am not certain, but it certainly looks longer than any external extractor I have seen before. Rear end of the extractor extends six cocking grooves out of the 11 or 12 on the slide.

[JV_]

My 226 was a 2010 model, old stock, it had a short extractor.


Have you had another change of heart (or mind)? I really have no idea what sparked it.

Both of my serious hobbies, cycling and guns, involve a chase. I like to track my performance numbers, figuring out how to get better, implement some changes, and see the improvement. I like that chase just as much as the actual shooting portion.

I can stop shooting my Glocks for a year, pick them back up and shoot them at about 90% of my previous level - with almost no effort. I think that ability leaves me bored.

[SLG]

Finally, on a personal note, I just don't see investing five figures of my own money to support a company that fired me unceremoniously. :cool:[/QUOTE]

I don't know why people who are getting fired feel they deserve a ceremony...;-)

To Tam's initial post about the mags, as well as the guy she linked to's other comments...I have seen the zipper mags come apart, though they more often just fail to hold tension properly. I have also seen many 228's fail at or before the 10,000 round mark - due to the PM issues of that older, pinned slide. The one piece slides cured that issue, and by 2004 (probably earlier), the new Sig mags had resolved the other issue. A well made 229 is my all time favorite duty gun. Wish I could still carry one.

[taadski]

Sounds like the newer (bottom) version. Thanks.



http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/taadski/photo_zpse87d8dce.jpg

[98z28]

Last I knew -- and I'm definitely not up to date -- the SRT would work in any 9mm, .40, or 357 pistol. However, a different trigger spring was needed for the P239... something the company didn't figure out until after delivering a thousand pistols to an agency that promptly began breaking the springs.

As for a self-funded SIG test, I don't see it in the same light as the Glock test. The gen4 Glock was just coming out and people were clamoring for information about it. I received countless requests from people to test it. There wasn't decades of information about the gun already out there. And, unlike the SIG, I didn't personally have years of serious training with one so (like the 1911) it was something new and interesting for me. I was also able to get quite a bit of unofficial support from Glock whereas anyone at SIG who tried to help me with a P229 test would probably get fired.

Finally, on a personal note, I just don't see investing five figures of my own money to support a company that fired me unceremoniously. :cool:


The P239 SRT kits still come with trigger spring while the others do not (226, 229, etc). I put one in an old P239 and the spring that came with the kit was different than what was in the gun. No clue if Sig has since started using the same spring in standard and SRT equipped P239's.


There isn't a lot of info state-side on the SP2022. All I can dig up are some comments along the lines of, "It seems to be quietly doing well", or "It's a damn good gun" from names like Ken Hackathorn and some guy that goes by ToddG. ;) Bruce Gray has good things to say about them, but in one of the only direct quotes from him I can find he says something along the lines of his personal gun "has been great for 5,000 rounds." If the French or the Swiss are having issues with small parts breaking (as we've seen in the post-2005 P-series), we are not getting the information. Somehow I doubt their guns are getting shot enough to uncover such problems, but that's pure speculation on my part.

It would be awesome to see one or two go to some high round counts. Given the price point and the lack of reported problems, it is suddenly an interesting gun in a field that has widespread problems of one flavor of another.

[taadski]

My 226 was a 2010 model, old stock, it had a short extractor.

I really have no idea what sparked it.

Both of my serious hobbies, cycling and guns, involve a chase. I like to track my performance numbers, figuring out how to get better, implement some changes, and see the improvement. I like that chase just as much as the actual shooting portion.

I can stop shooting my Glocks for a year, pick them back up and shoot them at about 90% of my previous level - with almost no effort. I think that ability leaves me bored.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. It seems that a big part of expertise in any realm is continuing to be a student; continuing to be attentive, evaluate and learn, regardless of skill level. Folks that don't enjoy that process to some extent (the chase) don't often seem to make it to the higher levels of skill.

T

[GJM]

Sounds like the newer (bottom) version. Thanks.

1) Yes, you are correct.

2) As most good Sig shooters have likely figured out, and I did at 50 yards today, with the relatively wide body of the double stack Sig, it is important to press the trigger straight back, as it is easy to deflect shots left (right hand shooter) if the trigger isn't pressed straight back.

3) Regarding carrying the 226 versus the 229, I am surprised how little difference there is above the "water line" between a 226 and 229 carried appendix. See the two pictures below of my 226 and 229. (I need to touch up my 226 were I had the beavertail dehorned, something not necessary with the 229 SAS.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/2291_zpsc425ac4e.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/2292_zpse75fc2da.jpg

[Le Français]

If the French or the Swiss are having issues with small parts breaking (as we've seen in the post-2005 P-series), we are not getting the information. Somehow I doubt their guns are getting shot enough to uncover such problems, but that's pure speculation on my part.

Interestingly,the French LE units that do the most shooting/training (GIGN, GIPN, RAID) carry Glocks in 9mm rather than the Sig. I'm not sure why, but it sure doesn't help alleviate the lack of data on hard-use Sig SP2022s.

[Tamara]

To Tam's initial post about the mags, as well as the guy she linked to's other comments...I have seen the zipper mags come apart, though they more often just fail to hold tension properly. I have also seen many 228's fail at or before the 10,000 round mark - due to the PM issues of that older, pinned slide.

Oh, I'm sure the mags can fail in that manner, I've just never seen it myself. (I mean, I've seen Metalform 1911 mags pop the tack welds holding on the baseplate, but I don't start gun board threads telling people to avoid 1911s because their mags blow up (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2009/04/two-is-one-and-one-is-none.html). ;) )

I've got a photo around here someplace of the cracked breechblock from our rental 228 which eventually went Tango Uniform when the roll pin gave after going unreplaced for who knows how many squillion rounds.

To read that dude, though, the things broke if you looked at 'em crosseyed...

(Actually, one of the more impressive displays of pistol endurance I've seen was from an old stamped-slide 226 in that same rental showcase. It was set up as a DAO because that's what the Wackenhut guards at ORNL used to carry 'til they transitioned to DAK guns, and it got rented at least once a day and usually more, 50 rounds at a lick, for years and years. Rode hard and put up wet and cleaned only when it absolutely needed it, and what's maintenance, anyway? Parts replacement? Huh? And it wound up getting sold as a used gun to someone who took it home and kept shooting the thing...)

[John Ralston]

Found a SRT Kit for my P229, but no joy for my P220 yet. If anyone sees one, let me know.

[ToddG]

Todd - I should be in Exeter in April. I can drop your name and see how they feel about getting you a 229 to beat on. Or should I just keep that one to myself. :confused: ;)

In reality, there's almost no one left at SIG from my time there. Odds are no one at the Academy would recognize my name.


Todd, could you elaborate on this a bit? Are you talking about back when the trigger bar springs didn't have the coil loop in them? Or a different change perhaps I'm unaware of? I've installed a bunch of SRTs and specifically have a P239 I put one in without issue, but I think it was after I'd already transitioned to the coil style spring.

No, the change from the shot-peened spring to the looped spring happened well before I began at SIG (2002).

When installed in the P239, the SRT mechanism was shaving the short leg of the trigger spring (the part that is left of the trigger bar internally). After a pretty short service life it would break and in some instances disabled the gun. The solution was simply to provide a spring with a shorter leg that wouldn't interfere with the other parts of the gun. As I said, this was discovered by an agency that received a substantial quantity of the P239 SRT guns and began having problems during initial testing and qualification. Ironically, the guns were delivered many months later than originally promised by SIG in part, allegedly, because the company needed to test the function and durability of the SRT in the P239. :rolleyes:

[98z28]

Excellent post, thank you. Is the 226 vs 229 examination on pf? 'Sig,' '229,' etc. are all too short for search terms.

Try going to google.com and entering "site:pistol-forum.com sig 229" in the search box. It will search the site for whatever text you enter after "pistol-forum.com".

[NickA]

Every time my lust for a SIG dies down, you guys gotta start another thread :mad:
The high cost of entry has held me back so far. Shot the SP2022 with Skyline and another shooter a few weeks ago. I also really liked it, but I want to try the SRT trigger and AFAIK it's not an option on that gun.
There seems to be plenty of DAK guns in 40 running around, anyone know if those can be converted to DA/SA? And to change to 9mm would you need the whole Xchange kit or just a barrel or what?
Luckily the new instructor at our range ran SIG Academy for years, so maybe Skyline and I can pick his brain, and possibly his gun safe, to try out some options.
Interestingly, a coworker has a P239 that he's owned since the '90s. He just told me he got a letter from SIG offering to send a free SRT upgrade for his gun.

[HCM]

Every time my lust for a SIG dies down, you guys gotta start another thread :mad:
The high cost of entry has held me back so far. Shot the SP2022 with Skyline and another shooter a few weeks ago. I also really liked it, but I want to try the SRT trigger and AFAIK it's not an option on that gun.
There seems to be plenty of DAK guns in 40 running around, anyone know if those can be converted to DA/SA? And to change to 9mm would you need the whole Xchange kit or just a barrel or what?
Luckily the new instructor at our range ran SIG Academy for years, so maybe Skyline and I can pick his brain, and possibly his gun safe, to try out some options.
Interestingly, a coworker has a P239 that he's owned since the '90s. He just told me he got a letter from SIG offering to send a free SRT upgrade for his gun.

Re: Surplus -DAK guns in 40

Yes, they can be converted to DA/SA. Parts are available from Top Gun supply.

You can do 40. to 9mm via a caliber exchange kit (complete slide and barrel) or via a conversion barrel available from Barsto among others.

A Barsto 9mm conversion barrel is on my want list

[JM Campbell]

I must resist. To big of a money dump. I will respectfully sit back and see how you kind gentlemen fair and then wish I had tried. (Reverse psychology)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

[taadski]

Thanks a bunch for the info, Todd. I'm 6,000ish rounds down the road with that pistol without issues and I don't believe I'm running the SRT version of the trigger bar spring (unless that's what they've gone to across the board). I've just been purchasing and installing the standard maintenance parts kits at appropriate intervals. I'm looking into finding the SRT specific replacement springs as we speak. Again, thank you.


The DAK to DA/SA conversion is pretty straight forward. The parts are a bit pricey but I sold the DAK ones to recoup the cost. There's a pretty good market for them. There are also folks out there looking to switch the other way pretty regularly and it doesn't appear difficult finding someone to trade if you're certain that's the direction you want to go. Sigforum is a good resource in that regard.


T

[ToddG]

taadski -- Again, my latest info on that particular issue was from '07 so it's quite possible that SIG addressed it in a way that eliminates any need for concern. I'm quite sure current production P239 pistols that leave the factory with SRT components would have the right spring. For all I know, every SIG pistol now uses that spring for commonality.

[taadski]

Copy. FWIW, the current LE parts list I have in front of me lists both versions of the spring, so it would at least appear they're not using them across the board.

[ToddG]

Copy. FWIW, the current LE parts list I have in front of me lists both versions of the spring, so it would at least appear they're not using them across the board.

So I'm curious, what are the two springs? Is there one specifically for all P239, one specifically for all SRT, or one specifically for P239-SRT?

[taadski]

So I'm curious, what are the two springs? Is there one specifically for all P239, one specifically for all SRT, or one specifically for P239-SRT?


They list two specifically for the 239 with the following parts numbers:

34239295 TRIGGER BAR SPRING

34239295M TRIGGER BAR SPRING (SRT)


They only list a single TBS under each of the other P series pistols.


T

[ToddG]

The only two parts that were changed for the original SRT kit were the sear and internal safety lever. I shot tens of thousands of rounds out of multiple SRT-equipped guns, guns in which I'd installed the SRT parts myself btw, without ever using a different trigger return spring. I also never broke a TRS during that time. In fact, off the top of my head, I don't remember ever breaking a TRS in any SIG I ever shot. But I'd have to go back through my records before I'd swear to that.

My swag is that they went with the P239SRT-friendly version of the spring for all SRT guns just to keep things simple. But it's certainly possible other changes in the past five years (to the trigger bar, frame, or internals) could make the SRT-specific spring a necessity now.

[NickA]

Re: Surplus -DAK guns in 40

Yes, they can be converted to DA/SA. Parts are available from Top Gun supply.

You can do 40. to 9mm via a caliber exchange kit (complete slide and barrel) or via a conversion barrel available from Barsto among others.

A Barsto 9mm conversion barrel is on my want list

Thanks. It would be the long way around and maybe more expensive, but something to keep in mind.

I must resist. To big of a money dump. I will respectfully sit back and see how you kind gentlemen fair and then wish I had tried. (Reverse psychology)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
Actually my plan is to talk you into trying it then talk you into selling me your stuff (at a discount, of course) :p

[taadski]

I've seen a few trigger bar springs break on Agency guns over the years but these were the older style springs that I'm guessing we had in armory inventory. They were certainly getting installed during annuals well past 2002, anyway. :( I don't think I've seen one of the "newer" (loop style) springs break since we started only installing those.

FWIW, none of my SRTd pistols (3) came that way from the factory. And as noted, I haven't changed out the type of TBS on any of them, only the sear and sear safety lever as you noted above. I haven't had any problems with them and while I don't shoot even a fraction of your round counts, one of the 226s has 20,000+ rounds through it.

Sorry for the derail, everyone.

Anyway...yes, Sigs! Shoot them! :p

[HCM]

Thanks. It would be the long way around and maybe more expensive, but something to keep in mind.



Summit Gun Broker has .40 cal DA/SA P-229 trade ins for $ 475.

CDNN has DAK .40 cal p-226's for $499.

Its a rare cop gun that sees 10k rounds.... i wouldn't hesitate to pick up either.

DAK to DA/SA parts would run about $60 to 100 with SRT parts.

Bar sto 9mm conversion barrel is about $200 vs Caliber exchange kits at about $325-ish

[taadski]

snip...DAK to DA/SA parts would run about $60 to 100 with SRT parts.


Not to be contrary but where you shopping, brother? Those are some good prices. ;-) I think I came in at little under $200 the last time I put all the parts together. And with agency pricing from Sig direct you can get it down to around $150. That's the cheapest I've been able to find but if you have a better line, I'd love to source it.

Going DA/SA to DAK is a bit less expensive but my retail priced tally for the swap came out like this (from TGS):

• Decocking Lever 4.95
• Decocking Lever Spring 3.95
• Decocking Lever Bearing 7.95
• Hammer 46.95
• Hammer Strut Pin 4.95
• Hammer Reset Spring 4.95
• Hammer Strut 9.95
• Mainspring 4.95
• Safety Lever 9.95
• Sear 34.95
• Sear Spring 4.95
• Trigger Bar 69.95
• DA/SA Grips with Decocking Lever cutout 15.95
_______
$224.35

[GJM]

I just got a notification that Top Gun Supply has 229-1, 15 round Sig 9mm magazines back in stock, limit of two.

[John Ralston]

I just got a notification that Top Gun Supply has 229-1, 15 round Sig 9mm magazines back in stock, limit of two.

Apparently those didn't last long.

What is the difference between the 13 rd and the 15rd 9mm mags? I was able to easily get 15 into a 40 cal magazine.

[GJM]

Apparently those didn't last long.

What is the difference between the 13 rd and the 15rd 9mm mags? I was able to easily get 15 into a 40 cal magazine.

This is how Top Gun describes them:

SIG SAUER P229 E2 15 round magazine for 9mm E2 P229 models. These magazines will not fit P228's or P229 9mm's that typically use 9mm 13RD magazines. The E2 and some of the recent P229 9mm models use a .40S&W frame which has a larger diameter magazine well. Matte phosphate finish.

---------------

While I defer to the Sig experts, if you are getting a 9mm caliber exchange kit for your 229 .40, I believe it will be for the 15 round -1 magazines.

PS, I think this is the caliber exchange kit you want:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=329269310

[John Ralston]

This is how Top Gun describes them:

SIG SAUER P229 E2 15 round magazine for 9mm E2 P229 models. These magazines will not fit P228's or P229 9mm's that typically use 9mm 13RD magazines. The E2 and some of the recent P229 9mm models use a .40S&W frame which has a larger diameter magazine well. Matte phosphate finish.

---------------

While I defer to the Sig experts, if you are getting a 9mm caliber exchange kit for your 229 .40, I believe it will be for the 15 round -1 magazines.

PS, I think this is the caliber exchange kit you want:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=329269310

So...since mine is originally a 40, I guess I would use 15rd mags. Thanks!

[HCM]

Not to be contrary but where you shopping, brother? Those are some good prices. ;-) I think I came in at little under $200 the last time I put all the parts together. And with agency pricing from Sig direct you can get it down to around $150. That's the cheapest I've been able to find but if you have a better line, I'd love to source it.

Going DA/SA to DAK is a bit less expensive but my retail priced tally for the swap came out like this (from TGS):

• Decocking Lever 4.95
• Decocking Lever Spring 3.95
• Decocking Lever Bearing 7.95
• Hammer 46.95
• Hammer Strut Pin 4.95
• Hammer Reset Spring 4.95
• Hammer Strut 9.95
• Mainspring 4.95
• Safety Lever 9.95
• Sear 34.95
• Sear Spring 4.95
• Trigger Bar 69.95
• DA/SA Grips with Decocking Lever cutout 15.95
_______
$224.35

Ay Chingow ! It's been 4 years since I priced the parts ... you can cut that a bit if you scrounge for used parts.

The grips on our 2007/2008 vinatge 229 DAK's have the cut out - we have been replacing them withn the slim line grips as time goes by.

[JV_]

you can cut that a bit if you scrounge for used parts.

I'd be less than thrilled about running a used sear and hammer from two different guns.

[HCM]

I'd be less than thrilled about running a used sear and hammer from two different guns.

Good point. Last one I did involved a complete used parts set (from the same gun) and I swapped out the used springs for new.

[NickA]

This is speaking to me. I want to run a 'modern' pistol as a discipline thing, but don't like plastic; I have been geeking out over the relentless stream of M11 ads that have been in the gun rags recently; I want to evaluate the 1911-trigger-as-crutch thing; and I've been employing AIWB a bit more lately and was not reconciling that with GLOCKs very well.

So what's the school solution as far as variants go? I would think I'd prefer a 229 versus 226 since this would be an all the time pistol; the SAS seems to have the right components.

How hard is it to gunbroker a German 228?

Are any of the currently sold SIGs made in Germany?

How much would I hate myself if I got a .357 SIG?

Just the thing for you doc, P220 in 38 Super:
http://www.durysguns.com/shop/sig-sauer-model-p220-38-super-used-gun-inv-143691

[John Ralston]

Just the thing for you doc, P220 in 38 Super:
http://www.durysguns.com/shop/sig-sauer-model-p220-38-super-used-gun-inv-143691

That is awesome...I have tons of 38 super brass lying around. Of course, I could use the $$$ for that and buy ammo for my regular shooters.

[Morbidbattlecry]

This thread isn't helping my want of a P229r. Guess My springer 1911 9mm needs to make one last trip to the fun shop this weekend.

[GJM]

I got an irate call from YVK this afternoon. Apparently he rented a Sig 226 this afternoon, and shot it great. Says this thread is going to cost him money.

A little bird told me even TLG is getting all gooey (again) over Sig pistols.

[YVK]

I got an irate call from YVK this afternoon. Apparently he rented a Sig 226 this afternoon, and shot it great. Says this thread is going to cost him money.

A little bird told me even TLG is getting all gooey (again) over Sig pistols.

That was a sample of whole 70 rounds, which amounts to honeymoon phenomenon just as much as to real data. Having said it, I liked it more than I'd hoped I would...

[LOKNLOD]

That was a sample of whole 70 rounds, which amounts to honeymoon phenomenon just as much as to real data. Having said it, I liked it more than I'd hoped I would...

See, this is why I've stopped shooting any new/different guns...

[SecondsCount]

So Sig is now the flavor of the week? That's okay, my bases are covered, having purchased a 9mm P226 new in 1996. :cool:

I had a P226 in 40 for a while as well that I bought new in 2000. The 9mm P226 was sold after I bought a complete parts gun minus the frame in 9mm. It allowed me to swap uppers back and forth on the 40. I ended up buying back the 9mm P226 and selling the 40 with the upper to a fellow shooter a few years ago. He bought a new P226ST and had a bunch of extraction problems with it, even after two trips to Sig. We laugh because the frankengun, the 40 with the 9mm upper, runs like a champ.

I also have a SP2022 that a guy traded me with some cash for my P220. Another nice gun that I think I would rather carry from a size standpoint over the P226. My wife uses it in her ladies classes to demonstrate a DA/SA trigger.

Neither the 226 or the 2022 are causing me to go away from the HK, especially my recent acquisition- the P2000.

[Tamara]

The SIGpros make me sad. They're among the best in the bang-for-the-buck department on the market, and the grip (both of them) are shaped almost exactly wrong for my hand.

On the upside, it saves me from having to make the Diogenes-like search for holsters.

[JAD]

Just the thing for you doc, P220 in 38 Super:
http://www.durysguns.com/shop/sig-sauer-model-p220-38-super-used-gun-inv-143691

I know, I know. I'm trying to be good, here, and get on the 9 hi cap 'modern pistols' bandwagon.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[JHC]

That was a sample of whole 70 rounds, which amounts to honeymoon phenomenon just as much as to real data. Having said it, I liked it more than I'd hoped I would...

I've shot a friends 226 on two occassions but it was more slowfire plinking sort of stuff and I was awestruck by the easy of making precise shots. I've never run it fast in any of our common drills. Would like to someday. I'm sure it would rock. Over the last near decade of getting myself and two sons set up for Glock and building skill with same, $700 Sigs were not that tempting. Now as a true empty nester I intend to try one out; maybe after all the dust settles this year over hicaps etc.

[98z28]

The SIGpros make me sad. They're among the best in the bang-for-the-buck department on the market, and the grip (both of them) are shaped almost exactly wrong for my hand.

On the upside, it saves me from having to make the Diogenes-like search for holsters.

Interesting. The SIGPRO is the only plastic gun I have picked up and not thought, "If I just take a file to it right here...it would be perfect." The Pro fits my oddball hands well.

On the holster front, JRC can hook you up with any of his gear for the SP2022. Just sayin'.

[Cecil Burch]

DO NOT ask Spencer Keepers to make you one of his awesome holsters for a 2022. He will most likely threaten to shoot you in the knee cap. The 1911 is the only pistol he has a harder time with than a 2022.

Ask me how I know :p

[JM Campbell]

I remember Dallas, and you went to the range afterwards with him....brave or trusting?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

[Cecil Burch]

I remember Dallas, and you went to the range afterwards with him....brave or trusting?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2


He didn't yet know what a pain in the ass it was to finish the holster for the 2022. I got off lucky........

[NEPAKevin]

In the last couple of pro-Pro threads, it was mentioned that XD holsters often work as asubstitute. FWIW, I tried my 2022 in a DeSantis Cozy partner and it fits like it was made for it.

If its of any interest, the P220 in 38 super can supposedly run 9x23 with just a spring change and 9mm with a barrel swap The mags are its Achilles heel.

[GJM]

Range session today with my 2012 226R, now 2,720 rounds since new without a stoppage.

Another personal best -- this time draws to a 2 inch dot at 7 yards. I also shot groups at 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. The SRT trigger is incredible one hand. Was shooting an 8 inch steel at 30 yards, left and right hand only, and shot a steel IPSC target support hand only at 75 yards. I decided to try the IPSC head at 75 yards, free style, hit the head my first two rounds, and decided to stop lest I miss.

100 yard shooting on painted steel, where you can see your hits immediately, is very informative for learning the trigger on a new platform.

Still having problems with intermittent interference with the slide stop, and plan to modify that soon.

[tkitna]

I'm pretty bummed out with my wife's P238. It jams more then Hendrix on an acid trip. I admit that I havent shot a lot of rounds through it (100 maybe 150 so far), but it will jam at least once every 5 or so shots. I've been running some Winchesters and Blazers and i'm going to look for an all rounded head shell asap. It appears Fiocchi makes some, but everyone is out at this time. I've cleaned it a few times really well, but maybe I need to look at the feed ramp and see if it has a few burs or something. Problem seems to be getting worse.

I do love my P220 that I just bought. Really nice shooting gun and pretty darn accurate right out of the box.

[Tamara]

I'm pretty bummed out with my wife's P238.

Ron Cohen's crazy cost cutters figured out a way to **** up a Colt Mustang? This is my shocked face -> :|

SIG already made the Cadillac of 380s. Sure, it was a little big, but you couldn't fault the P232 for accuracy or reliability, and it would fit any pocket that would hold a J-frame (ask me how I know.) It was like a PPK* that actually worked and didn't weigh a metric ton.


*If there is any handgun less worthy of the adulation it receives than the PPK, I don't know what it is. If Ian Fleming weren't dead, I'd like to slip one of those high-priced collector-grade jammomatics in a sock and bludgeon him to his knees with it.

[Up1911Fan]

A DA/SA P229 is the only gun I regret selling. Sold it off with the rest of my .40's when I went to 9mm about 6 years ago.

[John Ralston]

OK...so I did some research, and the era of my P229 is not compatible with the 9mm Caliber Exchange Kit. I am going to go with a Barsto Conversion Barrel. So, for someone in the know...

I assume the 40 mags will work, BUT if I have issues, can I swap the followers out for 9mm P229-1 Followers?

[NEPAKevin]

OK...so I did some research, and the era of my P229 is not compatible with the 9mm Caliber Exchange Kit. I am going to go with a Barsto Conversion Barrel. So, for someone in the know...

I assume the 40 mags will work, BUT if I have issues, can I swap the followers out for 9mm P229-1 Followers?

I used to have an older P229 in 9mm that used the same mags as the 13 round P228 and those mags would lock into the 357/40 P229 but there was a little space between the frame and the lower part of the mag. Guys who used the converted 40/357 said that both mags ran fine and the 10 round 40s would hold 11 rounds of 9 if you wanted to be a closet rebel during the ban. Back then, when you ordered a follower they only asked if it was for a Klinton or a real mag. But those were simpler times.

[MD7305]

My experience with two BarSto conversion barrels was very positive. No fitting required, plug and play. I also never obtained 9mm specific mags and just used the 40/357 mags. It worked fine, no malfunctions and as I remember the 12rd mag held like 15 or 16 9mm rounds. I wouldn't trust the combo for personal defense/carry but for range/training it was good to go. The BarSto barreled 229 was very accurate and 9mm in that package had much less recoil vs. the 40.

[Tamara]

Guys who used the converted 40/357 said that both mags ran fine and the 10 round 40s would hold 11 rounds of 9 if you wanted to be a closet rebel during the ban. Back then, when you ordered a follower they only asked if it was for a Klinton or a real mag. But those were simpler times.
Heh. In those days, I had a Beretta 96 Border Marshal and my roommate had a 92, and my spare mags kept going missing... ;D

[John Ralston]

My experience with two BarSto conversion barrels was very positive. No fitting required, plug and play. I also never obtained 9mm specific mags and just used the 40/357 mags. It worked fine, no malfunctions and as I remember the 12rd mag held like 15 or 16 9mm rounds. I wouldn't trust the combo for personal defense/carry but for range/training it was good to go. The BarSto barreled 229 was very accurate and 9mm in that package had much less recoil vs. the 40.

Thanks. I think I will get the barrel ordered.

[HCM]

Heh. In those days, I had a Beretta 96 Border Marshal and my roommate had a 92, and my spare mags kept going missing... ;D

yes, 11 round Beretta 96 mags would hold 14 rounds of 9mm in a 92F - if you did the closet rebel thing ...

MD7305 - did you swap recoil springs or just use the .40 sprngs ?

[NEPAKevin]

I wouldn't trust the combo for personal defense/carry but for range/training it was good to go.

I used the ten rounders and aftermarket mags with factory followers and springs for the range and saved the factory full capacity mags for carry. Reminiscing about the ban days brings to mind the saying about what happens to those who fail to learn from history.

[MD7305]

I used the ten rounders and aftermarket mags with factory followers and springs for the range and saved the factory full capacity mags for carry. Reminiscing about the ban days brings to mind the saying about what happens to those who fail to learn from history.

Truth.

[SecondsCount]

I'm pretty bummed out with my wife's P238. It jams more then Hendrix on an acid trip. I admit that I havent shot a lot of rounds through it (100 maybe 150 so far), but it will jam at least once every 5 or so shots. I've been running some Winchesters and Blazers and i'm going to look for an all rounded head shell asap. It appears Fiocchi makes some, but everyone is out at this time. I've cleaned it a few times really well, but maybe I need to look at the feed ramp and see if it has a few burs or something. Problem seems to be getting worse.

I do love my P220 that I just bought. Really nice shooting gun and pretty darn accurate right out of the box.

Send it back to Sig.

I see quite a few of these at the range and at classes. Some run great while others not so much. The last one I saw ran beautifully, was in a woman's hand, and she was using aluminum cased Blazer ammo.

My first thought was to ask her to play the lottery for me on the way home.

[ST911]

Re P238... I'm trying to think of a gun I am less enthused about than a really-subcompact, single action in 380ACP. Repeated exposure doesn't develop an appreciation, only an RMI... Repetitive "Meh" Injury.

A friend has a P238 that runs well, but so far she is only shooting two different loads. One is a ~90 grain FMJ, the other JHP-XTP. A couple of other P238s around are finicky. Most folks are passing on them in favor of the LCP.

[GJM]

A few days ago, I was on hold for the Sig Custom Shop, and the recorded message made me aware that Sig offered the 250 in a variant holding 13 rounds of .380, for "when you need capacity."

I was shooting my old P220 tonight, right before dark, and hitting an 8 inch steel at 60 yards in fading light. The 220 seems to have modest recoil for its weight, and have accuracy/shootability on par with my good 1911 pistols.

[YVK]

Now that we have 12 pages of how great they are, maybe we should talk about negatives?

Extra time commitment and variable quality of current Sigs have been mentioned.

DA shot fully depends on a press out. I think that if one were forced to fire early, from retention or compressed ready, lighter and shorter triggers would offer an advantage. I'd like to hear comments on this.

I am also concerned with first timed shot from concealment one handed. I know that with full grip I can control the gun on target and press 10 lbs trigger fast enough without losing an alignment. I think one handed first shot with Sig will be slower than with Glock or LEM, particularly with reduced size targets.

[John Ralston]

I think one handed first shot with Sig will be slower than with Glock or LEM, particularly with reduced size targets.

I did the home trigger job on my P220 (polished all the surfaces - no material removal) and although it might be heavier than an LEM, it is smooth and I don't think that the timer would reveal a huge handicap. During one handed dry fire the sights don't come off the target. This might also be due to the fact that my primary is an LEM and I am used to a long trigger cycle.

[barnaby]

Gee thanks guys..

After divesting myself of all but one Sig.. I've succumbed to this thread by finding and purchasing a LNIB KE P228.

This is the Sig that I missed the most.. so it is back in the stable.

Almost too nice to shoot.

[GJM]

Now that we have 12 pages of how great they are, maybe we should talk about negatives?

Extra time commitment and variable quality of current Sigs have been mentioned.

DA shot fully depends on a press out. I think that if one were forced to fire early, from retention or compressed ready, lighter and shorter triggers would offer an advantage. I'd like to hear comments on this.

I am also concerned with first timed shot from concealment one handed. I know that with full grip I can control the gun on target and press 10 lbs trigger fast enough without losing an alignment. I think one handed first shot with Sig will be slower than with Glock or LEM, particularly with reduced size targets.

No idea on quality. I am over 2800 rounds without a stoppage on a 2012 226R.

No difference in first shot, one hand only from concealment. I am in the middle of a range session now, but from OWB concealment, averaging 1.25 free style to the 8 inch circle, and 1.35 for strong hand from concealment. These are indistinguishable from my Glock/P30 times. I would argue that one hand is easier with the rolling DA trigger of the Sig, as you can be aggressive and still get a surprise break.

No idea how to test from retention, as I don't time that stuff. As regards a high prob target, shorter/lighter would seem to be faster if you just mash the trigger. With any precision required, I don't think trigger weight on shot one is material.

[JDM]

No idea on quality. I am over 2800 rounds without a stoppage on a 2012 226R.



How's your slide to frame fit now compared to new?

[Cecil Burch]

DA shot fully depends on a press out. I think that if one were forced to fire early, from retention or compressed ready, lighter and shorter triggers would offer an advantage. I'd like to hear comments on this.



My non-scientific experience is that from retention there was no noticeable difference in shooting my G19, M&Pfs, or my 2022. And shooting from compressed ready, I was actually better with the SIG. I think because I had to focus on the trigger a little more so my results were much better and much more consistent.

Of course, I am a pretty mediocre shooter, so that might skew the results somewhat.

[GJM]

How's your slide to frame fit now compared to new?

Not sure, as I didn't look carefully when new? You having issues with your 226?

[JDM]

Not sure, as I didn't look carefully when new? You having issues with your 226?

No issues, and I'm sure it's normal wear, but coming from plastic guns, noticeable wear is a foreign concept to me.

:p

[taadski]

No issues, and I'm sure it's normal wear, but coming from plastic guns, noticeable wear is a foreign concept to me.

:p



If you don't mind my asking, what sort of noticeable wear are you seeing?

[396]

Send it back to Sig.

I see quite a few of these at the range and at classes. Some run great while others not so much. The last one I saw ran beautifully, was in a woman's hand, and she was using aluminum cased Blazer ammo.

My first thought was to ask her to play the lottery for me on the way home.

The wife's P238 has fed everything we've put in it so far. Only issue was a stovepipe with some Prvi ammo the first time out that I attributed to her limping it as she hasn't shot an semi-auto in years. The Blazer aluminum stuff is noticeably hotter than an other factory stuff she's fired in it. Last time out, her fourth with the gun and shooting Fiocchi XTP'S, she made a free-hand five shot group that you could cover with a quarter with three nearly in the same hole.

It was only fifteen feet, but she's easily shot more in the month she's had the pistol than in past 10 years, so I was still impressed. I guess we got lucky.

[ToddG]

How's your slide to frame fit now compared to new?

Slide to frame fit on P220-series guns plays no real role in accuracy. While many SIG pistols are moderately "tight" from the factory, they do loosen up through use. Some of the SIGs I used to shoot would literally rattle when I shook them hard. A gunsmith can actually remove the rattle by re-fitting the barrel but it won't do anything other than stop the rattle.

What matters is that the barrel locks up tight with the slide. The slide has the sighting system, so as long as the sights and the barrel remain repeatably aligned then minor variations in the top end's position relative to the frame are meaningless.

[Suvorov]

Slide to frame fit on P220-series guns plays no real role in accuracy. While many SIG pistols are moderately "tight" from the factory, they do loosen up through use. Some of the SIGs I used to shoot would literally rattle when I shook them hard. A gunsmith can actually remove the rattle by re-fitting the barrel but it won't do anything other than stop the rattle.

What matters is that the barrel locks up tight with the slide. The slide has the sighting system, so as long as the sights and the barrel remain repeatably aligned then minor variations in the top end's position relative to the frame are meaningless.

While you certainly need no supporting evidence, I will add that while my SP2022 has to have more rattle and slide to frame slop than any other modern pistol I own, it will chew a single hole if I do my part. I can find no appreciable difference in accuracy between it and my Sig Classic and Beretta pistols.

[JDM]

Slide to frame fit on P220-series guns plays no real role in accuracy. While many SIG pistols are moderately "tight" from the factory, they do loosen up through use. Some of the SIGs I used to shoot would literally rattle when I shook them hard. A gunsmith can actually remove the rattle by re-fitting the barrel but it won't do anything other than stop the rattle.

What matters is that the barrel locks up tight with the slide. The slide has the sighting system, so as long as the sights and the barrel remain repeatably aligned then minor variations in the top end's position relative to the frame are meaningless.

Cool.

Thank you, Todd.

[cdunn]

I picked up a 228 today, before reading this.I'm going to make an effort to work with the sa/da because I also have a hk45c coming.So the M&P will be sitting it out for a while.I've looked for a srt kit they are hard to come by.

[GJM]

I picked up a 228 today, before reading this.I'm going to make an effort to work with the sa/da because I also have a hk45c coming.So the M&P will be sitting it out for a while.I've looked for a srt kit they are hard to come by.

If I can pass on the advice SLG gave me -- learn to love the DA Sig trigger pull. Get yourself a snap cap, and DA the crap out of your pistol until you own DA. When you do live fire drills, do fewer drills that involve one DA shot and a bunch of SA presses, and focus on lots of two shoot drills until the DA/SA transition becomes subconscious.

[cdunn]

If I can pass on the advice SLG gave me -- learn to love the DA Sig trigger pull. Get yourself a snap cap, and DA the crap out of your pistol until you own DA. When you do live fire drills, do fewer drills that involve one DA shot and a bunch of SA presses, and focus on lots of two shoot drills until the DA/SA transition becomes subconscious.
sounds good to me, thanks

[JV_]

When I was learning my Sig, I would put up (2) 2" circles at 5Y. Draw and shoot one (DA) to the left dot, and then transition to the right dot for the SA shot. Decock, holster, repeat.

I also used (2) 3x5 cards @ 7Y for the same drill.

[JDM]

When I was learning my Sig, I would put up (2) 2" circles at 5Y. Draw and shoot one (DA) to the left dot, and then transition to the right dot for the SA shot. Decock, holster, repeat.

I also used (2) 3x5 cards @ 7Y for the same drill.

Given how limited, and expensive ammo is of late, most of my live fire has been comprised of this drill or some variation of it for 50 reps or so. I really like this type of thing for working on the SIG manual of arms.

[JodyH]

Given how limited, and expensive ammo is of late, most of my live fire has been comprised of this drill or some variation of it for 50 reps or so. I really like this type of thing for working on the SIG manual of arms.
My range sessions have been trimmed down to 50 rounds per until that light at the end of the tunnel is an ammo train.
I started doing "The First 48 Drill" (basically half of my "99 Drill (http://pistol-training.com/drills/99-drill)").

Target : 3x5 card
7 yards, 2.5sec PAR: draw and shoot three (5 times, total 15 rounds)
7 yards, 5.0sec PAR: draw, fire one, reload, fire two (5 times, total 15 rounds)
10 yards, 3.5sec PAR: draw and shoot three (5 times, total 15 rounds)
15 yards, 5.0sec PAR: draw and shoot three (1 time, total 3 rounds)

To finish out the 50 round box I'll often back up to 25+ yards and do 2 shots on the 3x5, pure precision no time limit.
:cool:

[GJM]

Not that .22 ammo is growing on trees, but I have found having a .22 top end for my 226R to be a really good thing for practicing DA/SA transitions.

[JohnN]

Not that .22 ammo is growing on trees, but I have found having a .22 top end for my 226R to be a really good thing for practicing DA/SA transitions.

That's a good idea but in Indiana
.22 ammo is as scarce as 9mm:-) .

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

[secondstoryguy]

This thread has motivated me to brush the dust off an old P229 in 9mm that I haven't fired in years. It was acquired used and has Ashley Big Dot sights on it that I'd like to get rid of. Has anyone run the Warren sights on their Sig?

[GJM]

I have a Warren rear, that I haven't yet installed, but I am led to believe it matches height wise with a factory front sight, or a Dawson that spec height. I have been replacing factory sights with Heinie, and have a set of Trijicon HD sights waiting to try.

[Tamara]

That's a good idea but in Indiana
.22 ammo is as scarce as 9mm:-) .

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

Scarcer, even. I can sometimes find 9x19, after all, but deuce-deuce is just flat gone.

[taadski]

This thread has motivated me to brush the dust off an old P229 in 9mm that I haven't fired in years. It was acquired used and has Ashley Big Dot sights on it that I'd like to get rid of. Has anyone run the Warren sights on their Sig?

The Warren rears are about .03 taller than the #8 factory Sig rear. If you like your POI to be at the top of the post, this can help remedy the stock "behind the dot" point of impact Sigs come with these days. FWIW, I'm also running Heine's currently. My sample of a couple sets also print at the top the post at 20 yards.

G,

What width rear are you running?


t

[JonInWA]

I'm seeing more .40, .38 Special, and .45 ACP in the Seattle Metro area than 9mm AND .22. I have no earthly idea why .22 is being hoarded by the panicistas, other than Jim Billy Bob going shopping for 9 mil, finding none, then saying "Hold my beer while I load up the cart on .22 for mah mall ninja tactical .22."

Ok, so I'm mixing paraphrases, cultures, and demographics, but work with me...

Best, Jon

[Drang]

I'm seeing more .40, .38 Special, and .45 ACP in the Seattle Metro area than 9mm AND .22. I have no earthly idea why .22 is being hoarded by the panicistas, other than Jim Billy Bob going shopping for 9 mil, finding none, then saying "Hold my beer while I load up the cart on .22 for mah mall ninja tactical .22."

Ok, so I'm mixing paraphrases, cultures, and demographics, but work with me...

Best, Jon

1) Seattle hipsters like .22 LR for self-defense?
2) Stocking up on sub-sonic .22 for the suppressed 10/22s we can now shoot legally? (Really getting tired of marauding raccoons, and we've spotted coyotes in the neighborhood.)

[JonInWA]

1) Seattle hipsters like .22 LR for self-defense?
2) Stocking up on sub-sonic .22 for the suppressed 10/22s we can now shoot legally? (Really getting tired of marauding raccoons, and we've spotted coyotes in the neighborhood.)

1. Beats the heck outa me!

2. Most coyotes in the Seattle metro area are likely to be found in area singles bars...

Best, Jon

[Drang]

1. Beats the heck outa me!

2. Most coyotes in the Seattle metro area are likely to be found in area singles bars...

Best, Jon

Last one seen in my neighborhood was heading in your direction...

[Odin Bravo One]

I'm seeing more .40, .38 Special, and .45 ACP in the Seattle Metro area than 9mm AND .22. I have no earthly idea why .22 is being hoarded by the panicistas, other than Jim Billy Bob going shopping for 9 mil, finding none, then saying "Hold my beer while I load up the cart on .22 for mah mall ninja tactical .22."

Ok, so I'm mixing paraphrases, cultures, and demographics, but work with me...

Best, Jon


1) Seattle hipsters like .22 LR for self-defense?
2) Stocking up on sub-sonic .22 for the suppressed 10/22s we can now shoot legally? (Really getting tired of marauding raccoons, and we've spotted coyotes in the neighborhood.)

Shortage of .22 seems to be everywhere.

Except my garage. I hoard .22LR when I can find it at reasonable prices.

To the tune of about 40k right now.

Why?


http://youtu.be/lYXifOyNk1s

Because @ 1400 RPM it goes quick!!

[ak214]

This thread has made me start practicing with my p220 because all I can seem to find is 45acp in my neck of the woods.

[GJM]

Funny thing is two weeks ago, I found 9mm practice ammo in another part of Montana, and bought 10,000 rounds. This afternoon, I was looking at the 1,000 round cases I bought, and saw they gave me one case of .45 by mistake. I was not pleased.

[ak214]

I guess im not looking hard enough then. I wish I had that much ammo, I would be in hog heaven.

[SouthNarc]

http://youtu.be/lYXifOyNk1s

Because @ 1400 RPM it goes quick!!

Holy shit I haven't seen one of those in years! My gun nut neighbor had one back in the early 80s. Serious fun!

[cdunn]

my old 228 has dead night sights,I like to hear and see some night sight recommendations.

[GJM]

Heinie, Trijicon HD, Warren rear with a factory or Dawson front, Sig factory night sights.

[secondstoryguy]

The Warren rears are about .03 taller than the #8 factory Sig rear. If you like your POI to be at the top of the post, this can help remedy the stock "behind the dot" point of impact Sigs come with these days. FWIW, I'm also running Heine's currently. My sample of a couple sets also print at the top the post at 20 yards.

G,

What width rear are you running?


t

It has the "V" style Ashley rear sight(the one that belongs on a dangerous game rifle). In its current configuration it's unshootable.

[JDM]

I have standard Trijicon three dots on my 228. They work well enough.

[taadski]

It has the "V" style Ashley rear sight(the one that belongs on a dangerous game rifle). In its current configuration it's unshootable.

Understood.

I may have an older set of Mepro #8/8s I'm not using. I'll have to go digging but if you could use em, I'll look around a bit and see if I can find them.


t

[cdunn]

Today was my first trip to the range with the 228, I was pleased not much recoil, pretty accurate.I like the sights but they are dead night sights.the double action is a bit heavy, the SA was nice and light.Its a keeper, now I need a couple spare not being used 226 mags.I'm going to work on some reloads and draws ,then hopefully I'll call early enough to get a slot at the KSTG match coming up.

[Tamara]

I like the sights but they are dead night sights.

As an aside, dead night sights will sell on auction sites; dudes buy 'em to put on deuce-deuce conversion slides.

[JV_]

the double action is a bit heavyYea, that's an understatement.

[cdunn]

my googlefoo came up with 12lbs DA, 4.5 SA.I could be wrong.

[JV_]

my googlefoo came up with 12lbs DA, 4.5 SA.I could be wrong.

It felt like it was 16+. Can you bring it next Friday? I'll bring my trigger pull gauge.

[JDM]

My 228s DA pull is seriously heavy. Nearly twice what my 226 is I'd bet.

[cdunn]

It felt like it was 16+. Can you bring it next Friday? I'll bring my trigger pull gauge.

I will try , but work is suppose to start back next week.I'll let you know.
according to wolff a standard hammer spring is 24lbs.what spring were you using?

[NEPAKevin]

my googlefoo came up with 12lbs DA, 4.5 SA.I could be wrong.

That would be the specs for pistols with the short hammer spring. The older ones with the longer spring were much heavier and were more likely to have a gritty DA pull. The quick fix is to install a lighter hammer spring and trigger job. OTOH, some people pay a good chunk of change for those hand grip things to strengthen hand muscles. .

[Suvorov]

Odd, my P228 pull is only slightly heavier than my 92 pulls with "D" springs. A lot lighter and shorter than a standard 92 pull or my SP2022 pull. :confused:

[Mickey]

The trigger pull on my west German P228 was substantially heavier than on my 92fs.

[Odin Bravo One]

That would be the specs for pistols with the short hammer spring. The older ones with the longer spring were much heavier and were more likely to have a gritty DA pull. The quick fix is to install a lighter hammer spring and trigger job. OTOH, some people pay a good chunk of change for those hand grip things to strengthen hand muscles. .

I'm a firm believer in developing the strength required to properly manipulate the firearm(s) in use. However, I have also had Sig's with some serious trigger weight issues.

Dropping to a lighter weight spring can be beneficial, but I have found it can also cause some light strike issues, especially with hard primers, or ultra-light springs. Best COA is to use a lighter, but not the lightest mainspring. Wolff Gunsprings sells a 3 pack, of 17,18,19 pounds for the 226's, and have a similar package for 228/229's. I don't know the exact weights off the top of my head. Usually middle of the road, along with a trigger job can produce a pretty decent DA trigger pull.

I use a 19lb MS in my 226, and a 20lb MS in my 228. Combined with polish, and properly mated engagement surfaces, I have about a 9.5-10 lb DA pull, and 4-5lb SA.

[GJM]

Sean, reference a conversation I recently had with Bill Rogers regarding 226 durability, he mentioned that Sig first developed the new slide for the Navy folks using the 226, to resolve durability issues related to the classic, stamped slide and flex being transmitted to the frame and breaking the lower. This familiar to you?

[Odin Bravo One]

I know the stories, but mostly antecdotal, and not from guys I consider "gun guys" insofar as really being able to articulate the issues, and what the new equipment actually solved. The documentation on it is relatively weak. Not sure why that is. But this all happened before I was carrying a Sig on a regular basis. Still, the only Sig I ever broke broke, was an older model with a stamped slide. Sheared the frame rails right off.

............but I am also sure that pistol was well into a 6 digit round count.

As for Sig durability over all.......I'm pretty happy with every 226 I have had. My current Sig has a significant amount of ammo through it to date with no signs of quitting any time soon. Slide has been refinished due to some finish issues, but it is also very hot and humid where it has spent most of it's life, so dropping a C-note for a new finish, considering all the ammo it has expended, is a relatively minor maintenance expense.

[GJM]

Breaking the frame rails is exactly what Bill Rogers reported. He said he broke a half dozen pistols in the 20,000 round range, all with the old slide, which he attributed to flex transmitted from the old slide to the frame. He said the new slide solved the problem, and he had great durability after the change.

Any idea what year the new slides might have replaced the classic slide on Navy pistols? He suggested Navy got the new 226 slide before it found its way into regular production.

[Odin Bravo One]

I don't.

I can't remember when we replace 99% of our systems. I can usually give a time frame with some degree of accuracy......+/- 3-5 years either direction. :cool:

[ToddG]

Sean, reference a conversation I recently had with Bill Rogers regarding 226 durability, he mentioned that Sig first developed the new slide for the Navy folks using the 226, to resolve durability issues related to the classic, stamped slide and flex being transmitted to the frame and breaking the lower. This familiar to you?

This is incorrect. I was starting at SIG when the change was first being implemented, and the "Navy folks" were part of my direct responsibility as Fed/Mil Projects Manager. The 9mm P226 got changed to a solid 1-piece stainless slide primarily because of the public perception that the older style slide wasn't as good as the newer ("more modern") slides on the P229 and .40/.357 P226 models. Furthermore, the technology to produce the machined 1-piece stainless slides existed in the US factory in Exeter while the older slides had to come from Germany.

While I cannot speak to current inventory, for quite a while NSW had both the old & new type slides in service. The reason the anchor is engraved on the new style P226 slides that go to the Navy is specifically to allow a quick visual indicator of which type slide the gun had.


Breaking the frame rails is exactly what Bill Rogers reported. He said he broke a half dozen pistols in the 20,000 round range, all with the old slide, which he attributed to flex transmitted from the old slide to the frame. He said the new slide solved the problem, and he had great durability after the change.

The new style slide isn't more durable so much as it requires less maintenance to achieve durability. The FBI and Navy, in particular, used to break a lot of frames because they failed to replace the slide roll pins regularly. When the roll pins in the old style 2-piece stamped slides started to loosen, the breech block would move slightly during recoil which in turn reduced the overall rigidity of the slide. As the steel slide flexed, the aluminum frame rails got stressed and eventually cracked.

The new slide, being a solid machined piece of steel, doesn't develop that flex over time.

The old slide, as long as the pins were replaced every 5k rounds, also remained rigid and plenty of guns (with proper spring and pin replacement) saw well into the 100,000 round mark. I once saw a Canadian Special Forces gun (at Blackwater) that had been shot so much the barrel was completely absent any lands & groves (a true smooth bore), but the frame and slide were still fine.


Any idea what year the new slides might have replaced the classic slide on Navy pistols? He suggested Navy got the new 226 slide before it found its way into regular production.

While it may be possible that the Navy saw early samples, I do not believe they received the first solid steel slide P226 9mm pistols produced. In fact, my recollection is that they were sold into the commercial market first and became a simple running product line change. I know there were plenty of old style P226s in NSW inventory with a variety of units years into the existence of the new style P226 9mm.

[GJM]

Todd, it would be interesting for you to discuss this with Bill Rogers. As you probably know, Bill says the 226 is his favorite pistol, and the one he has consistently shot his best scores with on his school test. He told me that he was replacing the pins at 3,000 - 5,000 rounds with the classic slides, and still breaking the pistols, six as I recall, at low round counts. As soon as he was given two of the new slides the pistols ran and ran. What I didn't ask was exactly what year what happened.

[ToddG]

GJM -- All I can say is that I'm very surprised to hear that. The Bureau was pretty regularly seeing slide cracks around 12-14k "back in the day" when they weren't replacing the pins. It was that experience which caused so many people to believe that 12-14k was the service life of the P228.

I've seen SIGs with cracked frames at very early round counts, but they were always anomalies.

I don't doubt Bill's experience, it's just contrary to my own.

[Odin Bravo One]

This is why I pointed out that the poor 226 I broke was well into what had already been a long service life. It was well used when I got it, and I did not replace said roll pins. The previous owner had been a Sig armorer, and I am assuming he knew to do this, or it would be tough to explain how it made it so long. I was not a Sig armorer at the time. I also knew nothing of replacing roll pins. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure I knew what a roll pin was.

Like I said, I had heard the stories, but nothing concrete, and not from "reliable" gun sources. Thanks for coming in to clarify TG.

[ToddG]

Sean, your SIGs probably have so much sand in them that they cemented the breech block to the slide, eliminating the need for pins altogether. :cool:

[GJM]

I am curious at to whether folks are using the E2, "stock" Sig grips or something else? I have intermittent slide interference issues with the E2 grips, despite doing my best to splay my dominant thumb out. I put the "stock" grips on, and the problem went away. I think the shorter reach of the E2 grips puts my dominant thumb closer to the slide stop.

[JDM]

I'm using the stock grips on both my guns. I will be putting laser grips on my 228 in the next week or so however.

Interestingly, SIGs are the only guns I've never had issues with failure to lockback. The other guns I've run seriously have all required modification to my grip (usually slight), but not these guns.

[taadski]

I will be putting laser grips on my 228 in the next week or so however.

I'm interested in hearing your impressions, BOM. I've had the CTCs on both a past duty 228 and my current 226, and while I really like having the laser available, the grip diameter forces me to shift my grip ever so slightly more than I'm comfortable with to hit the magazine release. I may change my mind again at some stage and put em back on, but I've currently chosen to keep stock sized grips on both of my work guns.

t

[cdunn]

It felt like it was 16+. Can you bring it next Friday? I'll bring my trigger pull gauge.

JV I think the sight are PT night sights.

[David S.]

A couple of links for your review.

Gray Guns: Guide to SIG Sauer Pistol Inspection. (http://grayguns.com/guide-to-sig-sauer-pistol-inspection/)

Gray Guns: Lubrication of the SIG Sauer pistol rails (http://grayguns.com/lubrication-of-sig-sauer-pistol-rails/)

(Having cut my gun-learnin' teeth on SIGForum and trained with Bruce and his crew, I admit to being a bit of a BG fanboi. That said, I think his experience is worth sharing.)

[ToddG]

Gray Guns: Lubrication of the SIG Sauer pistol rails (http://grayguns.com/lubrication-of-sig-sauer-pistol-rails/)

The recommendations here are contrary to my experience with SIGs. While I do not doubt for a moment that following the suggested program will keep the gun running, it's not the best solution IMO.

Grease tends to trap particulate/debris far more than oil. Putting grease on the rails means that a lot of gun shot residue from the chamber/breechface area is going to get blown into the rails and then distributed through the grease over time. The result is that the lubrication properties disappear sooner plus you've created a slightly abrasive compound that is rubbing along the rails every time the gun is fired. If you're in dusty or sandy environments, the problem is multiplied manifold.

SLG and I frequently went thousands of rounds between cleaning our SIGs doing little more than putting a drop or two of decent oil (I use Militec) down the slide rails. Over time you'll see some finish wear on the frame rails and if you're particularly concerned you can also rub a light coating of oil onto those spots.

[PPGMD]

Grease tends to trap particulate/debris far more than oil. Putting grease on the rails means that a lot of gun shot residue from the chamber/breechface area is going to get blown into the rails and then distributed through the grease over time. The result is that the lubrication properties disappear sooner plus you've created a slightly abrasive compound that is rubbing along the rails every time the gun is fired. If you're in dusty or sandy environments, the problem is multiplied manifold.

Granted I have one fifth your round count in Sigs. But I didn't find that to be the case, as long as the grease was replaced every couple of thousand rounds it kept the rails looking like new.

While with my gun that I oiled (using Militec) in the same round count had much more significant rail wear.

[ToddG]

Granted I have one fifth your round count in Sigs. But I didn't find that to be the case, as long as the grease was replaced every couple of thousand rounds it kept the rails looking like new.

While with my gun that I oiled (using Militec) in the same round count had much more significant rail wear.

Interesting!

The times I tried grease, the gun would malf earlier (fewer rounds before cleaning) pretty consistently.

I admittedly never paid a lot of attention to finish wear on the rails either way.

[JV_]

FWIW: I also used grease on my Sigs, with success.

-Sent using Tapatalk.

[PPGMD]

The times I tried grease, the gun would malf earlier (fewer rounds before cleaning) pretty consistently.

Obviously I have no idea what type of grease, how you carried it, or what the weather was like. But since you live in the cold white north (which by my definition currently is anywhere north of I20), that might have something to do with it. Many gun greases are too thick for the colder weather, I have little experience with shooting cold weather; but I would probably switch to TW25B (what I used on my Sig internals), Lubriplate (they have a thin grease that is practically an oil), or even to an oil.

But for the climates I live in I use a lithium wheel bearing grease, Militec makes one, which is what I used on my P228R.


I admittedly never paid a lot of attention to finish wear on the rails either way.

I didn't either until he pointed out that the service life of the Sig frame is most often determined by the rails. And the longer the hard anodizing on the rails last, the longer the frame lasts. He isn't advocating babying it, or not shooting it. Simply that you should use grease if you are going to be shooting a Sig heavily on the range.

[JV_]

I use a lithium wheel bearing grease, Militec makes one, which is what I used on my P228R.FWIW: I use Lubriplate.

[David S.]

Interesting!

The times I tried grease, the gun would malf earlier (fewer rounds before cleaning) pretty consistently.

I admittedly never paid a lot of attention to finish wear on the rails either way.

I too have found no reliability issues with any of my centerfire pistols (Glock, SIG) while using grease (medium Slide Glide) per his recommendations, though I also live in a warm climate, clean regularly and have shot fewer rounds in my lifetime than some of you shoot in a typical year.

I did find that using just "a couple drops of oil" on my SP2340 was insufficient to prevent significant wearing. I was seeing a lot of gold color and starting to see some silver color with a total round count of under 5,000 rounds. According to this guide, enough to be concerned. Admittedly, it was my first gun at a time that finances were extremely tight so I would clean and oil it after shooting and go weeks or months before shooting it next with no maintenance in between. It is entirely possible that whatever oil I did apply had evaporated by the time I got around to shooting it again. Grease, on the other hand, stays put.

Cheers,
David

[joshs]

This should probably be split off since it's no longer Sig specific, but I think the grease or oil question depends on how often you clean your pistol. While grease may last longer than oil, it also needs to be cleaned off before the pistol is re-lubricated. With oil, new oil can be added to the pistol to keep it running without cleaning.

[GJM]

Not suggesting this is definitive, but beyond the Bruce Gray and Scott Falk grease recommendation,

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/908103701

new Sig pistols arrive from the factory with grease, plus extra small packets of grease in the box.

[Danjojo]

Makes me curious how much the grease recommendation is biased towards long-term durability vs reliability in various conditions. Only time I put grease on a weapon was with 50 cals.

[ToddG]

Obviously I have no idea what type of grease, how you carried it, or what the weather was like.

TW25B, behind the hip IWB, all climes but primarily DC-area which is very hot and humid in the summer, can be cold in the winter but 95% of my shooting was at a temperature controlled indoor range.

I still use TW25B for the action of some of my guns, it does wonders smoothing them out.


I didn't either until he pointed out that the service life of the Sig frame is most often determined by the rails. And the longer the hard anodizing on the rails last, the longer the frame lasts. He isn't advocating babying it, or not shooting it. Simply that you should use grease if you are going to be shooting a Sig heavily on the range.

The "black" on the frame can wear away without diminishing the hardness/resistance of the aluminum. Most of the high round count guns I saw had silvery rails but were still structurally fine.


I did find that using just "a couple drops of oil" on my SP2340 was insufficient to prevent significant wearing. I was seeing a lot of gold color and starting to see some silver color with a total round count of under 5,000 rounds.

What do you mean by "gold color?" Nothing gold should be in the gun regardless of your choice of lube. So either you were getting brass shavings, had a lot of unburnt powder, or you were shooting frangible/non-toxic ammo which tends to produce a gold-colored residue that can get blown all throughout the gun.


It is entirely possible that whatever oil I did apply had evaporated by the time I got around to shooting it again.

My experience with different oils is very limited, but I've never had that problem with Militec. My current carry gun sat barely touched, dirty, for about two months before it went back to the range and fired hundreds of rounds without any problem, and without any new/additional lubrication. Militec claims that their oil penetrates and treats metal when it gets hot so as you shoot the gun, you're protecting the metal for times when there isn't as much visible oil. I don't know whether that's true or not, but I've had tremendous success with a lot of high round count pistols that were given nothing but Militec oil every few thousand rounds to keep them running.


new Sig pistols arrive from the factory with grease, plus extra small packets of grease in the box.

This comes and goes over the years depending on whether a lubricant company wants to provide them as marketing samples. It was TW25B, in fact, for some of the time I worked there. Beretta did the same with Militec (oil, I think) for a while when I worked there. I wouldn't read much into it.

Having said that, I will say that most of the gunsmiths at SIG when I worked there preferred a homemade grease concoction that they used everywhere for everything. The only reason I don't consider their solution definitive is that they're the same guys who would faint when I told them my gun wasn't cleaned after each range session. I brought one of my guns in right before a big match once for them to inspect and they literally didn't believe it would fire that dirty. They insisted on cleaning it and "touching up the internals," after which it malfunctioned at the match.

[GJM]

I am just past 4,100 rounds since new on my 2012 226R, and have yet to have a stoppage. Most fun I can remember shooting a new platform.

I am at the point I am more comfortable making a low prob shot DA than SA-- both freestyle and one hand. Probably means I need to start spending more time on the SA trigger. One odd thing I noticed, because I have my 22 upper on a non SRT lower, and my main shooter is SRT, is the non SRT SA trigger has more travel before the break, and I find that an advantage when transition between targets. I had just assumed the SRT is the way to go, and now I am not sure. Thoughts?

[GJM]

Just past 5,660 rounds, and still not a single stoppage with my 2012 226R. Since new, I have just run a bore snake thru the pistol twice, and added a smidge of grease twice.

Replaced the slide stop with a trimmed down part, that JV modified, and it seems to have absolutely eliminated my slide stop interference issue with no appreciable change in ability to intentionally drop the slide stop with my dominant thumb.

[bigslim]

If this is a thread jack please delete it and i'll start a new thread but i am seriously looking at the p226 22lr classic and using the caliber x-change kits. any thoughts or issues with this set up? same durability as a native 9 or 40?

mike

[GJM]

If this is a thread jack please delete it and i'll start a new thread but i am seriously looking at the p226 22lr classic and using the caliber x-change kits. any thoughts or issues with this set up? same durability as a native 9 or 40?

mike


1) I will defer to the Sig experts, but the .22 route is an economical way to get a .22 and centerfire caliber for not much more than just the centerfire, and I believe the lowers are the same, with the caveat that many of the centerfire pistols come with a SRT trigger, and most of the .22's seem not to. One caution is that I have been looking for a 226 9mm caliber exchange kit without success for the last two months.

2) Got to briefly handle a friend's 226 with a beavertail on Saturday, but didn't get the chance to shoot it. What is the thinking on whether the beavertail is a good thing or not? Right now, I have two small cracks in the skin in the web of my thumb from my attempt to get as high as possible with my grip on my 226R (no beavertail).

3) Crimson Trace laser grips came in for my 239, and I like that CT application more than any other laser I have used. The grips make the 239, which is already a soft shooter, even more docile.

4) Finally, Mark Housel put an RMR on a 226 slide for me, turning it around quickly with his typical high quality work. The combination of the Sig's accuracy and trigger really help to bring out the benefits of a red dot on a handgun.

[bigslim]

So you like the beaver tail, I will have to handle them side by side to see which one I like. A RMR is another option I am considering. I will have to get out and put my hands on some.

Mike

[NEPAKevin]

I have a .22 conversion for the 226 and like it with the only druther being that they do not lock the slide open. A friend with the same unit has had some issues with his being ammo sensitive but mine has digested pretty much everything I have fed through it. As far as I know, the ones that come from the factory with the 22 upper are the same frame as the 9/40/357 and should have the same durability with the respective conversions.

[HCM]

1) One caution is that I have been looking for a 226 9mm caliber exchange kit without success for the last two months.



Try these guys

http://www.gtdist.com/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNumber=SIG-CALX-226-9-BSS

[GJM]

Try these guys

http://www.gtdist.com/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNumber=SIG-CALX-226-9-BSS

can you confirm that link -- neither that link or gtdist.com works for me.

[JV_]

It works for me.

[LOKNLOD]

I hate you guys. I have a trade offer for a P226 from a guy on a local forum and instead of going "no thanks" as I should I actually briefly considered it. :p

[tomrkba]

Question about roll pins: Which pins to I need to replace every 5k rounds or so? Is it just the one in the slide? Does anyone know of a good tutorial on replacing them?

***


198 posts consisting of mysterious squiggly marks, only one movie and no pictures.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb425/tomrkba/firearms/semi-autos/SIG%20P220/photo-11.jpg
SIG P220 "Classic" with Hogue recheckered grips. These are not as grippy and annoying (less "sharp" and fewer "LPI") as the new grips. The gun is sitting in a Milt Sparks VMII with mismatched loops.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb425/tomrkba/firearms/semi-autos/SIG%20P220/photo-8.jpg

[Timbonez]

Question about roll pins: Which pins to I need to replace every 5k rounds or so? Is it just the one in the slide? Does anyone know of a good tutorial on replacing them?

***


198 posts consisting of mysterious squiggly marks, only one movie and no pictures.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb425/tomrkba/firearms/semi-autos/SIG%20P220/photo-11.jpg
SIG P220 "Classic" with Hogue recheckered grips. These are not as grippy and annoying (less "sharp" and fewer "LPI") as the new grips. The gun is sitting in a Milt Sparks VMII with mismatched loops.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb425/tomrkba/firearms/semi-autos/SIG%20P220/photo-8.jpg

The 5K replacement is just for the roll pin holding the breech block inside the slide. It's actually 2 roll pins (1 inner and 1 outer). I don't have a link to a tutorial, but it should be pretty straight simple: Drift out the old ones with a punch and replace with the new ones.

ETA: By the way, very nice, clean looking pistol. The P220 is my favorite SIG.

[Odin Bravo One]

Bruce Gray of Gray's Guns did a P series video that is worth the $30 bucks. It isn't perfect, but rumor is they worked out the first production run kinks, but if you get a DVD that acts up....send it back, they will take care of it. For the cost of 1/2 box of ammo, you get an education, insight, and useful tips and tricks to do various things to your 22x. Mostly I learned (or rather re-learned) to just stay in my lane. Shoot them. Let someone else maintain them/ take them apart.

[PPGMD]

Mostly I learned (or rather re-learned) to just stay in my lane. Shoot them. Let someone else maintain them/ take them apart.

Sigs are easy to take apart and put back together compared to some other guns like CZs, or the Ruger Mk series. And once you do it a few times you get the hang of it.

[GJM]

Sean has people for that! :)

[Odin Bravo One]

Sean has people for that! :)

"House elves" is the currently popular term.

And seriously, why do myself what I can just go pawn off onto someone else? Who gets paid to do just that........seems to me I am taking away the justification for his job if I start doing things myself.

And I am pretty sure there are actually rules against user-level modifications. At least that is what I am told every time I turn a Sig in for replacement..............who knew?

[FotoTomas]

OK...so I did some research, and the era of my P229 is not compatible with the 9mm Caliber Exchange Kit. I am going to go with a Barsto Conversion Barrel. So, for someone in the know...

I assume the 40 mags will work, BUT if I have issues, can I swap the followers out for 9mm P229-1 Followers?

I know I am coming in late here but I had a similar situation.

I wanted a 229R DAK to duplicate my duty 229R DAK in 9mm. Found one for for $500, used cop trade in in .40. Bought it. Found a SIG 229R 9mm Caliber exchange kit that was originally marketed for the 229 sold as a .22. Was told it would NOT work on my German 229 .40 frame. I bought it anyhow because I was told by others on SIG Forum that the standard 9mm locking insert was the key to getting those special 9mm kits to work on the .40/German frame guns. I had a 9mm magazine disconnect locking insert that would fit my pistol. When the 9mm kit arrived...as advertised it did not fit. After the locking insert swap I have put over 700 rounds of 9mm ball and JHP through her with nary a problem. She is now my personal EDC belt gun off duty. My 228 9mm mags work great and the new 15 rounders should work just as well if not better. I bought the disconnect model inserts from SIG about three years ago for about $50 each. I got two. They were limited to LE at the time but the regular models should be easy to get. If I can find another .40 DAK to buy in with It too will be set up like the first.

[Sparks2112]

I hate you all, and this thread specifically. Funny thing happened at work today. A 226 followed me home. :confused:

[DanH]

A 226 followed me home. :confused:

I hate it when that happens.

[bigslim]

Still lookin for my P226 in 22lr, but it will be mine.

Mike

[Matt O]

I hate you all, and this thread specifically. Funny thing happened at work today. A 226 followed me home. :confused:

A P226R followed me home a couple weeks back as well, precisely because of this thread (and the fact that I'd been wanting to try a DA/SA pistol for some time now).

I've been pretty impressed so far. The trigger isn't too bad - the double action is smooth and doesn't feel excessively heavy. Accuracy is very impressive. The pistol shot a 5 round 1.75" group at 25 yards (benched), unfortunately just 3" to the right so I think some windage adjustment is in order.

Muzzle flip "feels" higher than my G17's, but admittedly I'm still getting used to the recoil impulse and how to run it. I also dropped the SRT kit in and now the reset is ludicrously short.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MD7305]

If any of you guys are looking for a Sig you might find this interesting. Stamped slide 220s NIB, no rail. I'm not affiliated in any way just thought I'd pass it along.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100001098&dir=700|1012|1026

[Gary1911A1]

If any of you guys are looking for a Sig you might find this interesting. Stamped slide 220s NIB, no rail. I'm not affiliated in any way just thought I'd pass it along.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100001098&dir=700|1012|1026

That does appear to be a good deal, but I already have two 220s' in .45ACP now plus a .22 Conversion Unit. I keep hearing the 220 will not hold up to a thousands of rounds, but I like to think as long as I change the springs/pins at the recommended schedule and keep the rails greased they will last a long time. The HK45 is likely a more durable pistol, but it will never match the DA trigger of a 220.

[littlejerry]

If any of you guys are looking for a Sig you might find this interesting. Stamped slide 220s NIB, no rail. I'm not affiliated in any way just thought I'd pass it along.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100001098&dir=700|1012|1026

That is very tempting. After shooting only glocks for 3 years I'm itching for some variety. Unfortunately its .45 and I don't hate myself...

[Sparks2112]

That is very tempting. After shooting only glocks for 3 years I'm itching for some variety. Unfortunately its .45 and I don't hate myself...

HAH!

[JodyH]

If any of you guys are looking for a Sig you might find this interesting. Stamped slide 220s NIB, no rail. I'm not affiliated in any way just thought I'd pass it along.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100001098&dir=700|1012|1026
Only ships with one magazine... c'mon Sig.

[GJM]

Update -- I am just back from the Rogers School. My 2012 226R just passed 8,590 rounds since new, and has yet to experience a single stoppage. I have really enjoyed the process of beginning to learn how to shoot the Sig these last few months. In fairness, I think it is more demanding to shoot at a reasonably high level than, for example a Glock, but it is a wonderful platform for someone that values the Sig's attributes.

[WobblyPossum]

GJM, are you still primarily shooting your P226 or have you gone back to Glocks and HKs? If you're still on the SIG, is it still running flawlessly? I've always loved SIGs but by the time I was old enough to buy handguns, it was the heyday of SIG's quality control problems. I'm seriously considering dropping the cash for a P229 SAS or one of the M11-A1s.

[GJM]

All my Sig pistols ran great, and I don't recall a single stoppage or other issue through the whole process. I believe learning the Sig DA trigger made me a better everything trigger shooter.

For now I am shooting a Glock 17 for training and lower 48, and carrying a Glock 22 with a KKM barrel and hard cast loads in Alaska.

[Rich]

The recommendations here are contrary to my experience with SIGs. While I do not doubt for a moment that following the suggested program will keep the gun running, it's not the best solution IMO.

Grease tends to trap particulate/debris far more than oil. Putting grease on the rails means that a lot of gun shot residue from the chamber/breechface area is going to get blown into the rails and then distributed through the grease over time. The result is that the lubrication properties disappear sooner plus you've created a slightly abrasive compound that is rubbing along the rails every time the gun is fired. If you're in dusty or sandy environments, the problem is multiplied manifold.

SLG and I frequently went thousands of rounds between cleaning our SIGs doing little more than putting a drop or two of decent oil (I use Militec) down the slide rails. Over time you'll see some finish wear on the frame rails and if you're particularly concerned you can also rub a light coating of oil onto those spots.



I agree fully.
I've been shooting a Sig for some time now and never ever used that much lube. or even grease.
Like you I have no worries over the slide rails.

Now my carbine I do slap the carrier/bolt with more than a few drops of earl.

[Sparks2112]

Just to add to the discussion I've been playing with two 226 9mm's for about two months now and I think I have enough time with them to say that it's been the easiest platform for me to use so far out of all the ones I've tried. I actually feel silly for ignoring them for as long as I did. Ah well. :) Anyway, I think I might be a fanboi now :(

[GJM]

You may only be half way there. Full Sig spell is you peruse the Sig Forum daily, have the armorer's CD from GGI, a 239 with a laser for carry, a 229 for more carry, and are thinking about getting a 228 and 220.

[Sparks2112]

You may only be half way there. Full Sig spell is you peruse the Sig Forum daily, have the armorer's CD from GGI, a 239 with a laser for carry, a 229 for more carry, and are thinking about getting a 228 and 220.

But I'm carrying the 226 AIWB with a WML, doesn't that make me one of the cool kids or do I need the other stuff too?...

I got to handle a 224 the other day, I kind of want a 9mm one... :(

...And an M11A1, real bad....

...And some more 226's...

[GJM]

OK, you are 3/4 the way there.

Damn, I wanted a 224 in 9, too.

[Sparks2112]

Oddly, and I don't know why so don't ask me but the 226 is the only gun I've ever bought then actually WANTED a second one, and after I got the second one a third one sounds like a good idea. Argh.

[Kimura]

All my Sig pistols ran great, and I don't recall a single stoppage or other issue through the whole process. I believe learning the Sig DA trigger made me a better everything trigger shooter.

For now I am shooting a Glock 17 for training and lower 48, and carrying a Glock 22 with a KKM barrel and hard cast loads in Alaska.

I'm curious as to why you went back to Glock. Just because it's your preference or...?



Oddly, and I don't know why so don't ask me but the 226 is the only gun I've ever bought then actually WANTED a second one, and after I got the second one a third one sounds like a good idea. Argh.

I have a German P226. Nice gun, I shoot it well (for me) and there's really no reason not to love the gun, but I don't. Not really sure why. I also don't hate it and if issued one I wouldn't complain, but given the choice I'd rather shoot a Glock or a 1911.

[GJM]

I'm curious as to why you went back to Glock. Just because it's your preference or...?


I really enjoyed the Sig, and learning to shoot it some. I enjoy shooting it at long distance targets as much as anything. My personal goal was to be able to shoot Advanced at Rogers with it, and I was able to do that in April after getting serious about the Sig in 2013.

With summer, the Glock is very attractive to me because my wife shoots one, we spend a lot of time 100 miles off the grid in Alaska and I can easily maintain our pistols, and we have carried a G 20/29 in the summer for years. Mostly, though I just had an itch to shoot a 17 again. It seems like I am 6-12 months behind whatever JV does. :)

[JV_]

It seems like I am 6-12 months behind whatever JV does. :)LOL. There's a lot of nothing going on over here.

[Symmetry]

I've been using classic Sigs for the better part of a decade. At first, I didn't like the Teutonic ergos of the gun, but soon adapted. We are required to carry classic Sigs, and nothing else. Some of my other officers call me the "gun hopper" because I'm always trying out new configs, calibers, and models. I've come to the conclusion that with practice I can shoot any one of them better than the vast majority of people that I know. P220 .45s, P226 9mm & .40s, P228 9mms, P229 .40s, P232 .380s, and P239 9mm & .40s. However, I've found that the dreaded P220 .45 :eek: seems to be the sweet spot for me as a duty gun. The slender, elongated grip seems to just naturally point the pistol where I want it to go, and it helps reduce lateral movement of the trigger when it is pulled. Yeah, I got some lip from people regarding my choice of using not only a single stacked gun, but a .45acp gun at that with a reputation for durability issues. Well I did my homework and stayed within the best model years, and learned every detail of the ins and outs of the gun. I've always been exceptionally smooth and fast with my reloads and emergency action drills, so working with the reduced capacity wasn't as much of a concern for me. I've never had any problems with the two carbon slide P220s that I run, probably because I lube them right, stick with standard pressure .45acp, and do a full service every 5000rds. I use an early 2000s P239 .40S&W as my off duty gun since it is also a single stack with the same magazine capacity. If I could choose any pistol that I wanted to carry on duty, I'd probably go with the HK45. I think the ergos on it are hard to beat, it seems to have a better action for better reliablity, and it will be easier to maintain......but hey, I make the best of what I am allowed to use.

[Sparks2112]

Just an update, finished up the rest of my 9mm ammo this weekend other than some p9hst2 I'm keeping in reserve. I've got about 1500 rounds total with the sig. Here's the main thing I've noticed. My on demand accuracy is incredible for me, even at speed. Finding the magwell with the magazine could be a bit easier. I wish there was an after market option other than the sig extended grips. 17 pound Wolff mainspring has proven to be completely reliable with various types and qualities of Ammo.

At a recent range session with a buddy I made two shots that I wouldn't have been capable of with a glock. Since then I've started duplicating those shots with more frequency. I don't see myself switching from sig any time in the near future.

[NickA]

Just an update, finished up the rest of my 9mm ammo this weekend other than some p9hst2 I'm keeping in reserve. I've got about 1500 rounds total with the sig. Here's the main thing I've noticed. My on demand accuracy is incredible for me, even at speed. Finding the magwell with the magazine could be a bit easier. I wish there was an after market option other than the sig extended grips. 17 pound Wolff mainspring has proven to be completely reliable with various types and qualities of Ammo.

At a recent range session with a buddy I made two shots that I wouldn't have been capable of with a glock. Since then I've started duplicating those shots with more frequency. I don't see myself switching from sig any time in the near future.

Very cool, glad it's working out for you. Would probably make an interesting show topic for you as well.

[Sparks2112]

Very cool, glad it's working out for you. Would probably make an interesting show topic for you as well.

I probably won't talk about it much in all honesty. I don't know how many of the listeners are at the point where they can make the distinction between "It works well for me." and "It works well for me so you should go out and buy it." You'd be astounded with the number of people who thought I was telling them they absolutely had to go out and start carrying AIWB when it came up on the show.

[tomc51]

I have a Sig P250 compact version. I have put well over a thousand rounds through it without the slightest problem. A lot of people complain about the long trigger pull,but I don't have a problem with it. It is long,but smooth all the way through and after awhile you don't even notice it.
My only concern was that it only came with one mag. However it did come with a Sig laser,which I sold and bought two mags and a box of really nice Hornady SD ammo.
I've shot the cheapest target ammo through high end SD ammo without any problems. I've even intentionally let it get dirty and it still performed very well. I would trust it with my life and I do as it is my EDC.I have no problems recommending this pistol.:cool:

[Odin Bravo One]

Seems the FAM's, and other Domestic & International LE disagree.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/5581

Everyone can and does make crap once in awhile. And even a broken watch is correct twice a day. But given the extensive testing, and documented failures of the P250 by multiple sources, using published testing criteria, and a wide sampling of the platform (versus a single specimen) the end results for the 250 have been poor to lackluster at best.

My limited experience with two of them left me with the conclusion that I would not take one as a gift.

I am pleased yours runs well, and you have confidence in it. Ultimately, that is what matters. But as a family of pistols, the 250 fails.

[GJM]

Let's hope the 320 does better, given its genealogy.