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View Full Version : Ambi mag releases for ARs?



LittleLebowski
02-06-2013, 01:59 PM
Does anyone here have experience with any of the below?


Norgon (http://02a574b.netsolhost.com/Home_files/AmbiCatch.htm)
Knights (http://www.knightarmco.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4)
Troy (http://store.troyind.com/Ambidextrous_Magazine_Release_p/srel-amb-00bt-00.htm)

Matt O
02-06-2013, 02:57 PM
I only have experience with the Norgon ambi release, which I am still currently using. Overall it's pretty easy to actuate and significantly speeds up left-side reload times. My only gripe is I find it difficult to fully depress when there's a full or mostly full mag in the gun. So I generally use it for speed reloads on an empty magazine, but if I'm clearing the gun or removing a relatively full mag for whatever reason, I just reach up with my right hand and use the standard mag release.

Sparks2112
02-06-2013, 04:27 PM
The knights on their factory guns is excellent, never tried it on a user installed one.

SeriousStudent
02-06-2013, 07:57 PM
I run a Norgon on my AR's; I'm cross eye dominant.

I honestly use the Norgons because I got a good deal on a box of 5, so each AR got one. They have worked well for me, and I have not had the desire to try something different.

I'm betting the KAC gear would be sweet, like virtually all their stuff. I've just never had the reason to try them.

mizer67
02-06-2013, 08:19 PM
Using a Norgon, not sold completely but it does speed up reloads for me (a lefty).

Why: Marginally wrong position, wrong size, sometimes difficult to depress, sort of in the same place as the bolt catch which has the possibility of making malf. clearances more fun.

Will let you know on the KAC once I get my Mod 1. Probably won't be for a while though, given how backlogged KAC is on them.

PT Doc
02-06-2013, 08:41 PM
I'm a lefty and started with the Norgon but ditched it pretty quick. It had a very small '' sweet spot '' for an easy press. Most times it required a lot of force to depress. I switched to the Troy and never looked back. Easy to depress from any angle.

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Little Creek
02-07-2013, 02:03 PM
I have three Norgons. They work for me

Sparks2112
02-07-2013, 02:59 PM
Using a Norgon, not sold completely but it does speed up reloads for me (a lefty).

Why: Marginally wrong position, wrong size, sometimes difficult to depress, sort of in the same place as the bolt catch which has the possibility of making malf. clearances more fun.

Will let you know on the KAC once I get my Mod 1. Probably won't be for a while though, given how backlogged KAC is on them.

This is much more appropriate for PM. - Jay Cunningham

BWT
02-25-2013, 01:58 PM
I've used the Knights Ambi release and I'm in love with it.

It's easy to reach and manipulate.

LittleLebowski
07-05-2013, 07:46 AM
Just got my ambi Knight's release in and I like it a lot. Only dry fired and did mock reloads but it installed perfectly on my beat up S&W 5.45 (complete rifle) and works perfectly. Will be buying another for my 5.56 rifle.

BWT
07-05-2013, 01:43 PM
Just got my ambi Knight's release in and I like it a lot. Only dry fired and did mock reloads but it installed perfectly on my beat up S&W 5.45 (complete rifle) and works perfectly. Will be buying another for my 5.56 rifle.

The only problem I can find with them is finding them. Dang if sourcing this last one wasn't bad. I just bought my 2nd one for my AR SBR, now if I could just find an LMT ambi-selector.

Magic_Salad0892
07-10-2013, 05:43 AM
I have experience with the KAC one. It's works just fine, if you can actually find one.

LittleLebowski
07-10-2013, 06:31 AM
I'm very impressed with the KAC unit.

I seriously don't understand why more personally owned and newly built ARs don't come with ambi safeties, charging handles, and mag releases. Just logical evolution of the platform.

Little Creek
07-11-2013, 08:15 AM
I'm very impressed with the KAC unit.

I seriously don't understand why more personally owned and newly built ARs don't come with ambi safeties, charging handles, and mag releases. Just logical evolution of the platform.

I could not agree more. That is one reason I like the S&W M&P10. It has the ambi safety, ambi mag catch/release, and ambi bolt catch/release. Now, if they would just add an ambi charging handle.

rob_s
07-11-2013, 08:21 AM
I'm very impressed with the KAC unit.

I seriously don't understand why more personally owned and newly built ARs don't come with ambi safeties, charging handles, and mag releases. Just logical evolution of the platform.

I have something of an opposite surprise, that this has become such a trend and hot topic.

LittleLebowski
07-11-2013, 09:21 AM
I have something of an opposite surprise, that this has become such a trend and hot topic.

So....why not? Why not go ambi? Cost? Let's leave emotionally driven stuff out like "I hate trendiness and hot topics" and keep it at the facts.

Are we saying civilian owners would never use ambi controls should they buy them? Should the AR15 never ship with ambi controls? Are ambi controls a crutch that keep people from learning how to manipulate the AR with either hand as is? Is the cost of ambi controls not worth the equivalent in ammo/supplies/et cetera?

rob_s
07-11-2013, 11:05 AM
So....why not? Why not go ambi? Cost? Let's leave emotionally driven stuff out like "I hate trendiness and hot topics" and keep it at the facts.

Are we saying civilian owners would never use ambi controls should they buy them? Should the AR15 never ship with ambi controls? Are ambi controls a crutch that keep people from learning how to manipulate the AR with either hand as is? Is the cost of ambi controls not worth the equivalent in ammo/supplies/et cetera?

Seems like quite the outburst for someone that wants to leave out emotion. :P

I just find it odd that it has risen to fever pitch over the last year or two. Obviously whoever made the *first* ambi part struck a nerve in the market that ignited all of this and woke up all the lefties that had an axe to grind over the years, but I don't recall ever hearing much bitching from them before that. At least the ones I knew that could shoot.

I also happen to think that this whole lateral-transition thing has gotten completely out of hand. I've attended, and seen video of, matches where it's required. Read AARs where people spend half or a whole day fiddling with it, etc. What I see most often is people that are struggling to make hits on their strong side lose training time and only get worse messing with their weak side.

Fro the natural (or un-natural as in your case) I guess there's a perceived need, it's just weird that it's become the new black. I also have concerns as to the quality of a lot of these parts, and the fact that people are trying to stuff them into designs not intended for them, but ultimately as long as they aren't on the AR of the cop that comes to save me I don't much care what everyone else's gun looks like.

Since you seem such a fan, maybe you can expound on why you are such a huge proponent of the trend,and I seem to recall seeing a thread about the Howe gun somewhere that you pretty much hijakced into a "why no ambi?!" discussion. Having shot with a lot of really good lefties over the years I don't know any of them that are wound up about ambi, and the reversible Colt safety (that most don't even seem to know about) pretty much addressed their one concern.

None of this should be seen as me trying to stop you from doing whatever you want to your gun, or as me much caring what you do to your gun, this is just a trend I don't "get" and I thought I might get a rational explanation as to the excitement.

LittleLebowski
07-11-2013, 11:12 AM
Seems like quite the outburst for someone that wants to leave out emotion. :P


I'll catch up on the rest in a bit but know that I didn't mean for that to sound emotional at all. Just friendly discussion.

Odin Bravo One
07-11-2013, 01:12 PM
I'm normal. Meaning, right handed. The gun, as it comes, is fine for me. I've trained plenty to work it with the other side, and even shoot from the left side. But I have never really had cause to do so outside of the training environment. If I was shooting a ton of competitions where I was forced by a CoF to shoot lefty, then having ambi-controls might be of use to me. But as it stands, I do more than 99% of all of my shooting righty, and the gun works just fine set up as it is for that.

fuse
07-11-2013, 01:38 PM
I think there BADASS started this trend.

(love mine)

LittleLebowski
07-11-2013, 02:02 PM
Since you seem such a fan, maybe you can expound on why you are such a huge proponent of the trend,and I seem to recall seeing a thread about the Howe gun somewhere that you pretty much hijakced into a "why no ambi?!" discussion. Having shot with a lot of really good lefties over the years I don't know any of them that are wound up about ambi, and the reversible Colt safety (that most don't even seem to know about) pretty much addressed their one concern.


In a nutshell and leaving stuff from another forum at another forum, why not? Why not have fully ambidextrous capabilities? What if Eugene Stoner had designed the AR with ambi safety, mag catch, and charging handle? Would you be arguing against folks making their ARs like what we have now?

In certain situations, I've found the ambi safety useful. I really haven't trained with the BCM ambi charging handle yet.

I just don't understand why folks wouldn't do these upgrades other than in the name of "tradition" and "I've trained myself around it."

Little Creek
07-11-2013, 02:57 PM
Seems like quite the outburst for someone that wants to leave out emotion. :P

I just find it odd that it has risen to fever pitch over the last year or two. Obviously whoever made the *first* ambi part struck a nerve in the market that ignited all of this and woke up all the lefties that had an axe to grind over the years, but I don't recall ever hearing much bitching from them before that. At least the ones I knew that could shoot.

I also happen to think that this whole lateral-transition thing has gotten completely out of hand. I've attended, and seen video of, matches where it's required. Read AARs where people spend half or a whole day fiddling with it, etc. What I see most often is people that are struggling to make hits on their strong side lose training time and only get worse messing with their weak side.

Fro the natural (or un-natural as in your case) I guess there's a perceived need, it's just weird that it's become the new black. I also have concerns as to the quality of a lot of these parts, and the fact that people are trying to stuff them into designs not intended for them, but ultimately as long as they aren't on the AR of the cop that comes to save me I don't much care what everyone else's gun looks like.

Since you seem such a fan, maybe you can expound on why you are such a huge proponent of the trend,and I seem to recall seeing a thread about the Howe gun somewhere that you pretty much hijakced into a "why no ambi?!" discussion. Having shot with a lot of really good lefties over the years I don't know any of them that are wound up about ambi, and the reversible Colt safety (that most don't even seem to know about) pretty much addressed their one concern.

None of this should be seen as me trying to stop you from doing whatever you want to your gun, or as me much caring what you do to your gun, this is just a trend I don't "get" and I thought I might get a rational explanation as to the excitement.

There are more LH people in the world than RH people will admit. That is a fact. I bet Eugene Stoner was right handed. IMHO he sould have developed the AR-15 with ambi controls to begin with. I am as LH as one can be. IMHO anything that can be designed ambidextrous should be. I should be able to manipulate my M4 the same way you do with my shooting/support hands the same way you do. If you don't think so, then I wish you would try one of the M4 style carbines designed for a LH with no RH controls. All my M4 style carbines are RH models with ambi controls I installed, except for the M&P10. To imply that "really good" LH shooters don't need nor want ambi controls is a slap in the face of all LH shooters. That is my opinion. I think it is a rational yet emotional explanation.

BWT
07-17-2013, 08:15 AM
I have experience with the KAC one. It's works just fine, if you can actually find one.

Hamlund Tactical has them.

rob_s
07-17-2013, 08:32 AM
"I've trained myself around it."

what is wrong with this as a reason? Seems like your reason FOR it is no better.

I personally think this is all largely psychological. I don't begrudge anyone their doodads, but I don't understand the hysteria and the explosion of this as a trend. Unless I'm mistaken natural left-handers account for 10% of humans. Figuring that the number of swap-eye-dominant people is equal for both right-handers and left-handers so the number of left-handed shooters is probably 10% as well.

My guess is that this is largely due to the increase in popularity of the "lateral transition" and the lack of training in simply learning to manipulate the gun with the wrong hand, although given that many of these people lack sufficient training with their correct hand it's not surprising that they haven't been taught that a good portion of wrong-handed training should be manipulations.

At the end of the day this seems no different than most of the AR world, looking for hardware solutions to software problems.

LittleLebowski
07-17-2013, 08:42 AM
rob, once again I'm not here to debate your problem with "hysteria" and trends. I prefer these doo-dads and find them to work better for me than "training around" limitations of the platform that can be easily, cheaply, and logically addressed. Are you arguing against the ambi controls on other, newer rifles?

Sparks2112
07-17-2013, 09:59 PM
I actually like the ambi safety for an odd reason, I use my trigger finger to put the gun back on safe.

Drang
07-20-2013, 08:52 PM
Keeping in mind that the only thing Ive operated in a "real" tactical environment was radio-direction finding and jamming gear, it seems to me that "Not wanting to clutter the design with stuff that wasn't in there originally" might be as valid with the AR as with the 1911.

Granted, if one says that and puts rails and lights and lasers and VFGs and cell phones and bottle openers and sighting implements that weren't even dreamed of in the 50s on your AR you've kinda invalidated it.

It also seems to me that, if there was that big a need for ambi-everything then the M16A2, if not the A1, would have had it. An ambidextrous safety/selector switch is pretty clearly a trivial operation from an engineering standpoint.
I don't see the point behind an ambi-charging handle. Are there people who don't use one finger on each side of the upper to work it? But, hey, if you're a sinistral rights activist, go for it.
Now, ambidextrous mag and bolt releases I can see the point to, but the examples of the former I've seen seem to be elegant kludges* -- the mechanism goes through the trigger guard? -- and an ambi bolt release would seem to call for such extensive redesign that the result would be known as a new rifle that uses an AR lower.

No doubt Sheepdog 24/7 will be along shortly to school me... :p


*Note that I have not handled on in person, so possibly my misgivings are unfounded.

Little Creek
07-21-2013, 07:01 AM
what is wrong with this as a reason? Seems like your reason FOR it is no better.

I personally think this is all largely psychological. I don't begrudge anyone their doodads, but I don't understand the hysteria and the explosion of this as a trend. Unless I'm mistaken natural left-handers account for 10% of humans. Figuring that the number of swap-eye-dominant people is equal for both right-handers and left-handers so the number of left-handed shooters is probably 10% as well.

My guess is that this is largely due to the increase in popularity of the "lateral transition" and the lack of training in simply learning to manipulate the gun with the wrong hand, although given that many of these people lack sufficient training with their correct hand it's not surprising that they haven't been taught that a good portion of wrong-handed training should be manipulations.

At the end of the day this seems no different than most of the AR world, looking for hardware solutions to software problems.

You may be a subject matter expert. But you are wrong on this, the number of left hand shooters is closer to 20% than it is 10%. So what, why vocalize against LH AR shooters? It is obvious you do not give a hoot about LH shooters. If you don't like a TV show turn it off. If you don't like ambi controls on an AR then do not have them on your weapons. For those of us who are not warfighters and will not have to pick up a weapon on a battle field, ambi controls work better than the standard Mil Spec M4 controls.

LittleLebowski
07-21-2013, 07:24 AM
It also seems to me that, if there was that big a need for ambi-everything then the M16A2, if not the A1, would have had it.

Huh? Are you saying the A1/A2 had everything needed and nothing else? As in the pinnacle? You do know that Stoner went on refine his design at KAC, right?

JSGlock34
07-21-2013, 08:26 AM
For those of us who are not warfighters and will not have to pick up a weapon on a battle field, ambi controls work better than the standard Mil Spec M4 controls.

I'm not sure this argument is going to be as valid in the near future. The M4A1 Product Improvement Program is supposed to introduce ambidextrous firing controls. The USMC has approved the Norgon Ambi-Catch. Canadian C7A2s are issued with the Norgon. Perhaps soon enough, ambi controls will be the standard issue even among war fighters...

Drang
07-21-2013, 09:10 PM
Huh? Are you saying the A1/A2 had everything needed and nothing else? As in the pinnacle?

Clearly not. A3, A4, M4, several attempts to replace the M16/M4. Did any of them add ambi-controls?

Mind you, If I was in charge of a project to produce a battle rifle, ambidextrous controls would be on The List of Desirable Features. Not sure I'd put them on the list of Have This Or Else.

LittleLebowski
07-22-2013, 06:31 AM
Clearly not. A3, A4, M4, several attempts to replace the M16/M4. Did any of them add ambi-controls?

Mind you, If I was in charge of a project to produce a battle rifle, ambidextrous controls would be on The List of Desirable Features. Not sure I'd put them on the list of Have This Or Else.

I still wouldn't advise using military PIPs as a yardstick to evaluate future evolution of weapons systems, especially after having served and seen how the military operates. For example, switching back to full auto and a heavier barrel ala the M4A1 which supposedly has ambidextrous controls (not sure how they're implemented).

Ambi controls are easy and just make sense for future weapons and new ARs.

Little Creek
07-22-2013, 10:11 AM
I'm not sure this argument is going to be as valid in the near future. The M4A1 Product Improvement Program is supposed to introduce ambidextrous firing controls. The USMC has approved the Norgon Ambi-Catch. Canadian C7A2s are issued with the Norgon. Perhaps soon enough, ambi controls will be the standard issue even among war fighters...


AS a LH guy, that is all I have ever asked. Why make something right handed when it can be made ambi for little or no extra cost. I have added ambi fire selectors, Norgan ambi mag catches, and Raptor charging handles to all my M4 style carbines. My QD sling attachments are al either ambi, preferred, or LH (left side rear, right side rear end of the handguard). The reasons I like the S&W M&P 10 are my previous positive expierence with the M&P15 and the ambi controls. I rest my case. Thanks for all your patience.

Failure2Stop
07-22-2013, 03:30 PM
I strongly prefer to have well thought-out and implemented ambi controls. Sometimes it just makes more sense to shoot from one side than the other.

Colt was clever in their recent selector design, where the selector can be removed and inserted in the opposite side. Not truly ambi, but it certainly helps for those that primarily shoot from the left side, or prefer the selector on the right side for other reasons.

The critial factor to me is that the ambi controls cannot be detrimental to the operation of the weapon. I generally prefer reduced profile or cut down controls on the side that is in support versus the primary control side.

cvann
07-26-2013, 08:31 PM
My LWRC has ambi mag and selector controls. Is awesome....

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