Best inexpensive red dot/reflex optic

[digiadaamore]

Ok so now that im running a shotgun with a lovely rail on top for home defense im interested in putting an optic on it, the thing is this isnt a high dollar ar so i dont want to run an aimpoint or eotech. are there any quality red dot or reflex style optics at a lower price point? this is only for in the house distance, so i dont need any magnifier options. any suggestions? thanks

[Jay Cunningham]

Ok so now that im running a shotgun with a lovely rail on top for home defense im interested in putting an optic on it, the thing is this isnt a high dollar ar so i dont want to run an aimpoint or eotech. are there any quality red dot or reflex style optics at a lower price point? this is only for in the house distance, so i dont need any magnifier options. any suggestions? thanks

My opinion is that your reasoning is ass-backwards. If your declared mission for the gun is home defense "in house" then it needs to be a real optic. Especially with the heavy recoil that shotguns dish out... they'll make mincemeat out of lesser optics.

I recommend the Aimpoint Micro. Some of the higher quality pistol optics would probably work really well too, like the RMR or DeltaPoint.

Dude... when you insert "home defense" as a category, it takes things to a whole different level.

[Tamara]

My opinion is that your reasoning is ass-backwards. If your declared mission for the gun is home defense "in house" then it needs to be a real optic.

Massive +1.

I'll occasionally justify a lower-end optic on a range toy/practice gun like my M&P15/22, but if it's a gun I think I may ever use to play for keepsies, then I suck it up and pay the tariff. :eek:

[Jay Cunningham]

Massive +1.

I'll occasionally justify a lower-end optic on a range toy/practice gun like my M&P15/22

Agree.

[Odin Bravo One]

I started running an RDS on a shotgun about 13 years ago. I have been through any that had a name worth mentioning. Some lasted a few months. Had one that lasted a few minutes. We have come a LONG way since then, and you can cry once when you shell out the cash for quality equipment that is up to the proposed task, or you can cry twice when you fork out some money, then fork it out again for the quality optic you shold have started with after the "save a few bucks" purchase loses it's virtues like a VOPN.

You get what you pay for when it comes to an RDS in this day and age. Expensive doesn't necessarily equate to "better", but in-expensive almost universally equates to "Epic pile of shit".

Certainly a 12 gauge is not in the realm of a .600 Nitro, but it still generates recoil energy. And a decent amount, which beats the snot out of an electronic optic. Only the top tier manufacturers have the intelligence, ability, technology, and "give a shit" to produce a device that will withstand repeated use on such a platform.

For a top rail, mounted to a shotgun.......there is one optic choice that makes any sense to me.

Aimpoint Micro.

[TGS]

Digi,

I'm looking around at various red dots for the same reasons. My firearm is not going to Afghanistan. While home defense is a life or death matter, my optic doesn't need to withstand the same abuse as one driving through IEDs. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

The two lower cost options I looked into were the Vortex Strikefire and SPARC, as I have a Vortex Diamondback that I think is an excellent scope......especially for the money.

As of right now, I'm leaning towards a used Aimpoint. They're just in another league, and not much more money (used) than most of the recreational grade red dots. If Aimpoints were really hard to get for some reason, then I'd buy a Vortex. They look really appealing with their price and decent quality, and the included 2x magnifier is a nice touch. While I don't need my optic to survive an IED or being felled upon on a rocky cliff, I do need it to work reliably. From what I'm reading, you have a very high chance with these lower cost options having electrical problems by 2 years of regular use. I guess this isn't bad if you treat your optics like disposable items, but I don't......and I'd rather not have it experience electrical gremlins when I need it. Even cheaper ones, such as the Bushnell TRS-25, are legitimate pieces of shit.

You really do get what you pay for, me thinks. If the cheaper red dots didn't have these traits, I'd feel better about purchasing them. Maybe I'll be able to convince myself they're a good buy, but at this point I'm leaning heavily towards a used Aimpoint. Buy once, cry once.

ETA: It's an unfortunate truth, but quality optics do tend to cost as much as the gun itself.

[Corlissimo]

Another plus to running a quality optic is that you can usually leave it turned on all the time and the battery will still last for years before needing replacement. Why worry about having to switch on the red dot in an HD scenario when you (or your wife/GF) don't need to?


~ Typos brought to you by my laziness & in attention to detail.

[TGS]

Some of the higher quality pistol optics would probably work really well too, like the RMR or DeltaPoint.

I was looking into these for my shotty, as well.

With pistols, shooters often complain about the small window/box that your eye has to be within to see the dot. Is this still a problem when placed on a long arm?

[SPDGG]

^ Agree w/ the above posts, I'd buy at least an Aimpoint PRO

imho: The above mentioned products are not because of the "have to be brand name" reason. Aimpoint, Eotech, Trijicon are mentioned & recommended because of their proven track record. I agree with the "Buy Once Cry Once". Crap happens when you least expect it & want it. Lifes to short to depend on "unproven". I'll pay a little extra to know Im GTG.

"To each their own"

[Odin Bravo One]

Who recommended an EOTech?

Come on..........fess up............

[Jay Cunningham]

Who recommended an EOTech?

Come on..........fess up............

Yeah, right?

:cool:

[Nik the Greek]

I have a PRO right now. I also want a red dot on my shotgun. If I get a T-1, I'd rather mount it on my carbine. Is the PRO viable on a shotgun? Either way, why would the T-1 be preferable as a red dot on a shotgun? Weight savings?

[Odin Bravo One]

I don't like a bulky gun. For a hair more than you pay for a PRO, you can easily find an H-1 for sale on numerous boards at half the overall footprint of the PRO.

There are also mounting trade-offs. H-1/T-1 in their factory low mount are fine for a shotgun. How is the height of the PRO going to be? I don't know. But if you use the mount that I have seen, it defeats the purpose of the RDS.......which is to speed up TA&E. Hard to be quick when you don't have a proper cheekweld, and the gun can't be mounted properly because you are "finding" your dot.

That is a very simplified response, as there is a fucking gizmo for anything you can conceive, or configuration you can imagine. You just have to look hard enough. But if you are running something like a Mesa SS/top rail combo, standard drop/comb tactical type stock, the lower you mount your RDS, the more benefit it will have.

[littlejerry]

I agree with the much more experienced guys on here about using a quality optic for your home defense gun.

... But just as a data point I've had a Primary Arms micro dot on a .22 for a little over a year now. It has done great for its intended role-a lightweight optic for hunting squirrels. It gets carried more than it gers shot.

But again, I wouldn't put it on a shotgun and risk my life with it.

[digiadaamore]

Thanks for all the responses guys, i should say i really hate optics and do think they are disposable, my shotgun has sights and i prefer them to an optic. You may ask why i am even considering one and thats for my wife if she needed it without me. Im just surveying the options rigt now, not making a decision,i was really hoping there was a decent option out there besides the big guys. I guess there isnt as of yet, i wonder when someone will make a legitimate challenger to those sights. TGS, i have looked at the vortex optics but im not sure that a full size tube style sight would be the best option for very close quarters?

[Corlissimo]

Digi-
One other very important thing to consider is what level of G load rating can the optic withstand.

IME, the lower end units tend to fall apart quickly under the shock loads of a shotgun, especially pump guns. They might last a little longer on a semi-auto due to a slightly softer recoil impulse, but you never know when/if they are going to go belly up. Not exactly desirable in a weapon you may need to trust your life to.

As an aside, as mentioned earlier, a lower mounted optic is preferred, especially if you have a ramped front sight, or similar, a you may be able to get a 1/3 co-witness which would sure be nice if your dot goes dark.

--
Please excuse any typos, my Droid's kinda stupid. (°_°)

[TGS]

TGS, i have looked at the vortex optics but im not sure that a full size tube style sight would be the best option for very close quarters?

I'm not sure what you mean, as the Strikefire is only an inch longer than an Aimpoint M2......but if you want a smaller footprint, I guess that's why they also make the SPARC which is a poor-man's less reliable Aimpoint H1.

But, me personally, I haven't found tube length to be an issue for indoors with my 1-4x24 optic, so I'm not seeing why it'd be a problem with a RDS. Can you clarify?

[shootist26]

I have an Aimpoint Micro on my 870. It sits on a Larue QD low mount on a mesa rail. Works well so far (as far as I can tell from my limited shotgun experience).

I opted to go for the QD mount because unlike an AR, I don't have backup irons that cowitness in the event of an optic failure. With the QD mount, I can pop the optic off and still use the bead reasonably effectively.

[Super J]

Save your money until you can afford to buy a decent RD ie aimpoint or even a rmr. Buy it right the first time to avoid spending more $$$ on the replacement.

[Odin Bravo One]

I'd have reservations of running an RMR on a shotgun. There are enough documented issues with the RMR equipped pistols that as my "one and only" optic on my "HD" shotgun, it is not something I am prepared to spend that kind of money on, in hopes that the issues are being resolved. I know for a fact the H/T-1 will hold up, and is many times, cheaper than an RMR.

I know I sound like some Aimpoint Fanboi......

But over the past 20 some odd years, having run just about every RDS ever made on shotguns, rifles, pistols, machineguns, the one manufacturer that stood out among the rest and displayed consistent ability to produce a rugged, and quality product. I also spent several years intimately involved in the testing, selection, purchase, and factory support for a ~2500 person organization and their RDS and MRDS optics. Again, Aimpoint stood head ans shoulders above the rest.

[baddean]

I haven't heard it mentioned here but Lucid http://mylucidgear.com/reddotsights.php makes an excellent optic for a reasonable price.
Excellent customer service too.
Holds up to a .458SOCOM should hold up on a shotgun.
A reasonably priced optic doesn't have to equate to "POS" in all cases.
Definately worth a look.

[dickmadison]

although I love the aimpoint micro - you could always get a trijicon rmr dual illuminated which doesn't have the electronics in it. Slightly cheaper than the aimpoint micro.

[TGS]

I haven't heard it mentioned here but Lucid http://mylucidgear.com/reddotsights.php makes an excellent optic for a reasonable price.
Excellent customer service too.
Holds up to a .458SOCOM should hold up on a shotgun.
A reasonably priced optic doesn't have to equate to "POS" in all cases.
Definately worth a look.

Looks decent enough quality. MAC reviews it, and drops it a few times on its side and on its top when mounted on a rifle and it works fine. However, it's 14oz. It's also pretty big, and for a shotgun I'd rather use their M7...which doesn't have any reviews on it.

In addition, there seems to be very few users of this brand. Not sure how the electronics will hold up over time.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NTqJnIGQ7h4

[Tamara]

Holds up to a .458SOCOM...

How many rounds in the gun book? (More importantly for a housegun, how long can you leave it switched on to a middlin'-low setting so that when you scoop the gun up you don't have to dick with any knobs or buttons or switches?)

[TGS]

How many rounds in the gun book? (More importantly for a housegun, how long can you leave it switched on to a middlin'-low setting so that when you scoop the gun up you don't have to dick with any knobs or buttons or switches?)

I guess I can see why some people care about this, but I'll raise my hand and say, "I don't get it, prof..." At the bare minimum you'll be dicking with a safety, which is a switch (or button). And if you keep your HD gun in condition 3, you've also got to charge it. And, you'll also have to dick with turning on the light of your HD weapon, too. And calling 911. Molesting the side of the optic to turn it on seems like the easiest task of the bunch, and a miniscule thing to make an issue of.

[joshs]

I guess I can see why some people care about this, but I'll raise my hand and say, "I don't get it, prof..." At the bare minimum you'll be dicking with a safety, which is a switch (or button). And if you keep your HD gun in condition 3, you've also got to charge it. And, you'll also have to dick with turning on the light of your HD weapon, too. And calling 911. Molesting the side of the optic to turn it on seems like the easiest task of the bunch, and a miniscule thing to make an issue of.

I've practiced taking the safety off, running the slide/pump/charging handle, and using the white light a lot more than I've practiced turning on an optic and getting it to the appropriate setting. I also know that I can do the first three tasks easily in the dark.

[TGS]

I've practiced taking the safety off, running the slide/pump/charging handle, and using the white light a lot more than I've practiced turning on an optic and getting it to the appropriate setting. I also know that I can do the first three tasks easily in the dark.

Honestly. Honest to god....this made me lol. If I can do all those other things, I really don't see how turning on an optic would be so complicated. It's just turning on an optic.

On what you guys are using, is the interface troublesome? Mine is just a knurled knob about the size of a turret. I can turn it either way, and it will come on at an appropriate brightness unless I continue cranking it. It's not at all hard to find in the dark.

[joshs]

Honestly. Honest to god....this made me lol. If I can do all those other things, I really don't see how turning on an optic would be so complicated. It's just turning on an optic.

On what you guys are using, is the interface troublesome? Mine is just a knurled knob about the size of a turret. I can turn it either way, and it will come on at an appropriate brightness unless I continue cranking it. It's not at all hard to find in the dark.

I don't store guns that I'm ready to use in condition 3, so the only thing I have to do is pick up the gun and it is "ready." The safety, if equipped, comes off as part of the presentation and effectively adds no time to using the gun. The lights on my guns are set up so that I can use them without shifting hand position, so using a light doesn't really add time either. The time added to turn on an optic may be very small, but it still adds time to making ready. Unlike the safety or light, it is difficult to turn on an optic concurrently with another task, so this is added time that can be avoided by using a different optic.

Aren't you using an Mtac? You optic is effectively "on" all the time, since the etched reticle can be used without illumination.

[TGS]

I don't store guns that I'm ready to use in condition 3, so the only thing I have to do is pick up the gun and it is "ready." The safety, if equipped, comes off as part of the presentation and effectively adds no time to using the gun. The lights on my guns are set up so that I can use them without shifting hand position, so using a light doesn't really add time either. The time added to turn on an optic may be very small, but it still adds time to making ready. Unlike the safety or light, it is difficult to turn on an optic concurrently with another task, so this is added time that can be avoided by using a different optic.

Aren't you using an Mtac? You optic is effectively "on" all the time, since the etched reticle can be used without illumination.

Yes sir, I am. I've been leaving it on 24/7 on a lower setting appropriate for night, which let a brand new battery last almost a month and a half. I'm not sure if I want to replace my battery every month, so I'm leaving it off for now on.

I guess it comes down to how you plan to use the weapon, as well. My pistol is within reach of me when sleeping, condition 1. My rifle is in my room, not in reach, condition 3. I dry fire and practice manipulating it almost every day, so I don't feel like having to cycle $30 worth of premium ammo into the practice bin every month....otherwise it'd be condition 1. If I'm going for my rifle, it's because I perceive having the time to put it into service.

[Odin Bravo One]

I haven't heard it mentioned here but Lucid http://mylucidgear.com/reddotsights.php makes an excellent optic for a reasonable price.
Excellent customer service too.
Holds up to a .458SOCOM should hold up on a shotgun.
A reasonably priced optic doesn't have to equate to "POS" in all cases.
Definately worth a look.

On a toy.

Absolutely worth a look.

I have a lot of lower rent RDS's and MRDS's on my toy guns.

I've had two Lucid optics, which I bought after an 80 hour T&E for optics. I ended up giving one to my nephew for his .22, and kept one for my .22. After 80 hours testing them against 17 other similar optics and owning 2 of them, I stand by my recommendation of an Aimpoint Micro for a HD Shotgun. Maybe their newer stuff is a little better, but they are still a very, very young company, and have a ways to go still. I wish them the best of luck, and hope they can provide a competitive quality optic and a price point well below the big boys. But they are not there yet.

If one insists on sticking with the low cost optics for a shotgun, (and I hesitate to mention as I don't want to be misunderstood as endorsing it for HD), the Burris Fast-fire systems would be my low cost alternative to a duty proven optic. The mounting method between the stock and the receiver puts the optic barely touching the gun, and giving it some isolation from shock. The plastic riser kits put the optic onto whatever height you need. Still......not my first, second, or third choice.

[Tamara]

Honestly. Honest to god....this made me lol. If I can do all those other things, I really don't see how turning on an optic would be so complicated. It's just turning on an optic.

On what you guys are using, is the interface troublesome? Mine is just a knurled knob about the size of a turret. I can turn it either way, and it will come on at an appropriate brightness unless I continue cranking it. It's not at all hard to find in the dark.

It's a 30mm Aimpoint. You've seen 'em; rotary knob facing you @ about 2 o'clock on the tube?

Anyhow, given the intended use of the gun, which is predicated on the assumption that I will have time to run fetch something while someone's kicking in a door or breaking a window, I'd rather just scoop up the gun and have it ready to go than waste processor cycles under pressure dicking with that little knob. I'm not saying "OHGODYOUWON'THAVEFINEMOTORCONTROL!!ELEVEN!", I'm just trying to make things easier on myself in what will no doubt be a pretty stressful situation.

If I can just leave the optic running and prophylactically swap out the batteries when I change the ones in the smoke detector, then that's a bonus in my book.

[SeriousStudent]

.......

If I can just leave the optic running and prophylactically swap out the batteries when I change the ones in the smoke detector, then that's a bonus in my book.

This. I run an H-1 on everything that has an RDS. I just make a habit of swapping all the CR2032's on New Year's Day, after choking down some Advil.

I have a shotgun class in March, and am having the local gun mechanic bolt a Mesa Tactical rail section to the roof of a used 870. Slap on the spare H-1 with a fresh battery. New Energizers are a buck.

I read that excellent shotgun thread last month, and shamelessly stole ideas for the spare shotgun. As they say on Action Figure Therapy - "Problem solved, problem staying solved."