Gun Buying Craziness - Ending?

[JV_]

I went by a local gun shop, they were fully stocked on nearly everything. I was mostly checking out the Glocks and there were 2 or 3 dozen in the case. I was pretty surprised they restocked this quickly.

Virginia Arms didn't have many rifles or Glocks, but they did have 1 AR on the wall (Bushmaster) and a few handguns. The handguns were 1911s, HKs, FNs, Berettas, and M&Ps.

[F-Trooper05]

If it's not over I'm going to blame this thread for jinxing it. ;)

All of the shops up here are instituting lotteries for all of the AR's that come in. And ammo and mags have been limited to two or three items per customer, per day. So it aint over yet for me.

[JV_]

Virginia Arms has ammo limits. I don't know if the other shop did or not. I don't normally worry about that because I don't buy ammo locally.

[F-Trooper05]

We can't buy ammo online in AK because of Canada (thanks again Slavex). So it really sucks up here.

[JV_]

We can't buy ammo online in AK because of CanadaWhy?

[F-Trooper05]

Because it has to be shipped via ground, and you can't drive hazmat stuff through Canada.

[JV_]

Because it has to be shipped via ground, and you can't drive hazmat stuff through Canada.How are the local gun shops getting their ammo?

[F-Trooper05]

How are the local gun shops getting their ammo?

Freight that gets shipped up from Seattle.

[NickA]

The shop at my range was still picked clean as of last week. They got in one AR and a few pistols, and ran them as a "members only" special for Saturday morning. They had people calling to ask if they could camp out:eek:
That said, they've only been open about six months and I doubt they have any pull with distributors or manufacturers. I haven't been able to get to any other shops to check them out.

[JV_]

they've only been open about six months and I doubt they have any pull with distributors or manufacturers.That's what's interesting about my LGSs. Virginia Arms is pretty well known, big, established, and they move a lot of guns - but has almost nothing. The other ship is maybe 6 months old and fairly small and is fully stocked..

[Zhurdan]

Local gun store and pawn shops are picked clean of most guns. One shop has a ton of ammo, but the prices are redonkulous.

$70 some odd dollars for a box of 50 in 9mm, .40, and .45. Funny thing is, it's all old stock that was overpriced to begin with. People aren't happy with them at this point.

Other funny part is, their reloading components are selling out like hot cakes as their pricing was decent all along, but I'm guessing their next shipment of stuff is a long way off and will have a substantial markup. I picked up 2k CCI400 primers for $34.00/1000 and a couple H110 one pounder's for around $19/ea for the 300BLK from there.

Also got some Barnes 110g black tips from Midway, so now I can start reloading, yippee!

[JMS]

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2013/01/update-status-of-gun-industry.html


Status of gun industry

Attention F.B. fans: to follow will be several IMPORTANT Info updates about the status of the gun industry currently, followed by an INVENTORY UPDATE: We traveled to Texas for Industry meetings concerning the shortages, here's what we were told.

Smith & Wesson-is running at Full capacity making 300+ guns/day-mainly M&P pistols. They are unable to produce any more guns to help with the shortages.


RUGER: Plans to increase from 75% to 100% in the next 90 days.

FNH: Moving from 50% production to 75% by Feb 1st and 100% by March 1. Remington-Maxed out!

Armalite: Maxed out.

DPMS: Can't get enough parts to produce any more product.

COLT: Production runs increasing weekly...bottle necked by Bolt carrier's.

LWRC:Making only black guns, running at full capacity...can't get enough gun quality steel to make barrels.

Springfield Armory: Only company who can meet demand but are running 30-45 days behind.

AMMO: Every caliber is now Allocated! We are looking at a nation wide shortage of all calibers over the next 9 months. All plants are producing as much ammo as possible w/ of 1 BILLION rounds produced weekly. Most is military followed by L.E. and civilians are third in line.

MAGPUL is behind 1 MILLION mags, do not expect any large quantities of magpul anytime soon.

RELOADERS... ALL Remington, Winchester, CCI & Federal primers are going to ammo FIRST. There are no extra's for reloading purposes... it could be 6-9 months before things get caught up. Sorry for the bleak news, but now we know what to expect in the coming months. Stay tuned, we'll keep you posted...

Related commentary from Bob Owens:


They didn’t know when they’d be getting anything back in stock, from magazines to rifles to pistols. Manufacturers were running full-bore, but couldn’t come close to keeping up with market demand. It wasn’t just the AR-15s, the AK-pattern rifles, the M1As, and the FALs that were sold out. It really hit me when I realized that the World War-era M1 Garands, M1 carbines, and Enfield .303s were gone, along with every last shell. Ubiquitous Mosin-Nagants—of which every gun store always seems to have 10-20—were gone. So was their ammo. Only a dust free space marked their passing. I’ve never seen anything like it.

Every weapon of military utility designed within the past 100+ years was gone. This isn’t a society stocking up on certain guns because they fear they may be banned. This is a society preparing for war.

The bolded part is, to me, the most important one that indicated NO, the panic isn't over.

It's at least the one of most significant immediate impact to folks that actually shoot, and don't need more STUFF. We were just on the brink of having come all the way back from the idiocy of the 2008-2009 panic in terms of ammo, in both availability and pricing....

[NickA]

That's what's interesting about my LGSs. Virginia Arms is pretty well known, big, established, and they move a lot of guns - but has almost nothing. The other ship is maybe 6 months old and fairly small and is fully stocked..

Huh. Might be as simple as who got their orders in first. Or who knows somebody that could pull some strings. I've been through one shortage in my business (from the distribution side), and it sucked. We definitely had to pull some shenanigans to keep our best customers happy and had to watch our manufacturers like a hawk to make sure we were treated right.

[JV_]

It might be that some distributors are having more issues than others.

FWIW: The stocked dealer uses Gallery of Guns / Davidsons.

[Byron]

I will be fascinated to see the 2012 Annual Firearms Manufacturers And Export Report (http://www.atf.gov/statistics/) when it comes out.

Year..........Total Firearms Manufactured*
1998..........3,725,191
1999..........4,085,514
2000..........3,873,210
2001..........3,014,546
2002..........3,366,895
2003..........3,308,404
2004..........3,099,025
2005..........3,241,494
2006..........3,650,324
2007..........3,922,613
2008..........4,298,197
2009..........5,555,818
2010..........5,459,240
2011..........6,544,886

*I just opened each year's PDF and summed the values for pistol/rifle/shotgun/etc. I don't understand why '98-'01 included "Machine Guns" and "AOW" as separate categories, while '02 and later do not. I have no idea if those values are now reflected in other categories.

Maybe there should be a P-F.com betting pool on what 2012's number will be.

[JM Campbell]

Was just at bass pro shop and academy sports...nadda for 223/556, pistol ammo 1 box per person per day max of 3 boxes mixed caliber and 9, 40, 357, 45, 223/556 available at customer service only. It's not over and gun cases were wiped out except for 380s and low tier guns we consider not carry worthy (Tri-Star?) ETA: this was at academy

[TGS]

The bolded part is, to me, the most important one that indicated NO, the panic isn't over.

It's at least the one of most significant immediate impact to folks that actually shoot, and don't need more STUFF. We were just on the brink of having come all the way back from the idiocy of the 2008-2009 panic in terms of ammo, in both availability and pricing....

Thanks for posting that, it was a good read.

Something to consider is foreign companies upping their production. I'm not an industry insider, nor even a business man......but my observations lead me to believe that the American gun industry is fairly slow to act and needs to see a wide profit margin to invest, whereas foreign companies will spool up a whole new production factory if it means they'll make a penny. Places from behind the former Iron Curtain especially. I'm interested to see what Armscor, PMC, MFS, Prvi Partizan, and the various Russian plants will respond with, and I'd put money down that it will be a sharper response than American companies.

[JV_]

I thought that 1 million mag number from Magpul was BS ... ??

[HCM]

I thought that 1 million mag number from Magpul was BS ... ??

Not sure but Pmags and other quality AR mags are slowly becoming availible for short periods online at "normal prices" though quantities are sometimes restricted.

Wasn't Magpuls 2010 EMAG contract with the Brits for 1 million mags ? Anyone know how quickly they were able to produce those ?

[MDS]

made a quick stop at the lgs on my way home. Things are looking a little better. They have actual AR's on the wall, mostly junk but a couple of m&p's... and while they're still out of 9mm clocks, they have more than a couple of 9mm m&p's. I asked and the m&p's aren't just the recent order, they just are moving as fast as the glocks.

ammo is different story. They have no 9mm or 45, though they did have a couple of boxes of 40. the only 223 they had was a customer trying to sell 900 rounds of federal for $1300. No 30cal rifle ammo be it for ak, 308, or 300 blk - and the gun nerd behind the desk actually chuckled when I asked about reloading components for 300 blk.

on the plus side they had a nice new Remington 700 XCR in 338 that I got to finger bang for a little bit. a lot like my LTR, actually, only now with moar awsum! Can't wait to live where I can stretch the legs on something like that....

[Zhurdan]

Surprisingly, Wal-Mart out here is still getting in about three Colts a week. All accounted for as of last check and it's 30 people deep.

[ST911]

I think a lot of it has to do with the surge capacity (read: available credit) of the consumer running low. The news is reporting more of the potential difficulty in passing gun legislation than likelihood of same. People are calming down. More oxygen is reaching consumer brains.

[MDS]

Right on schedule, too. Wasn't it mid-December when folks here were saying that pawn shops would be ripe for picking come February? :D

[YVK]

Still meh over here. Pistol shelves repopulated a bit, but mostly with Sigs at just-sub-1K price. Some ARs, from distance low quality. Pretty nice milled Arsenal AK, at $2990. No ammo.

Surprisingly, lots of people shooting on the range. Glad to see not all ammo is being hoarded or flipped.

[JV_]

I was shocked to see how much ammo the NRA Range had on their shelves, they were stocked with Fed AE (IIRC) and lots of other ammo, including .22LR bulk packs!

[Odin Bravo One]

What's the price on the Bulk pack .22? Might need to detour Sunday on the way home...........

[JV_]

What's the price on the Bulk pack .22? Might need to detour Sunday on the way home...........

Too much for me to bite, $38 or $39.

[JM Campbell]

Too much for me to bite, $38 or $39.

I would....been ----0--- in my AO for a month when it used to be stacked from the floor for pennies in almost any variety. I'm finding .17hmr regularly just nothing to shoot it out of.

ETA: I have taken the plentiful times for granted and now wish I stocked up. Learning my lesson daily now.

[will_1400]

I'm having a heck of a time finding 9mm, but .40 is everywhere. Lesson learned: stock up on ammo when I can and probably get an M&P 40 (or Glock 22/23) so I can have something to shoot if/when the next panic hits.

[Odin Bravo One]

Too much for me to bite, $38 or $39.

Unless its GemTech/CCI Subsonic, I'll pass at that price too............pretty sure the 35,000 rounds in the garage will last until the panic dies down.

[SecondsCount]

Handguns don't seem to be in as rare of supply as AR's. Most places that have them have bumped up the prices a little and if you can wait a couple weeks then they can get you what you want.

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

I'm in CA, so our particular situation with regard to basically anything fed from a box mag is likely different from the rest of the country thanks to our ban on mags with more than 10 rounds. I surmise that manufacturers are building guns for the rest of the country before they build/package neutered guns for California. As a result, the LGS I work at is out of virtually everything. We've got probably 1/4 of our usual inventory on hand.

The only handguns I have in stock in any quantity were things that were bought in bulk as door busters for sales. I've got a pile of Sig SP2022s but haven't seen a Glock in probably two weeks. Springfield XD "Essential Package" guns are fairly available, but I can't get my hands on any M&Ps. As rifles go, I can't get ahold anything semi-auto outside of a few 22LR guns. Anything AR related is really, really tough. We've only managed to get our hands on a few rifles that are "Allocated" by my distributors. However, I've got pallets of ammo in most calibers, but no 22LR. The last 6 weeks or so have been the busiest I've seen it in the 6 years that I've been in the business, but it has finally started to slow down now that we're out of most of the stuff that people actually want.

[hufnagel]

I get the impression you're glad it slowing down. :)

[ToddG]

I was at the LGS yesterday to fill out my MD background check paperwork for my Caspian frame (upcoming Heirloom gun). The State Police is backed up to 3-4 weeks right now. The last pistols I received, the paperwork was back in 3-4 days.

By law, the gun shop is allowed to release the gun to a customer after one week even if the state doesn't get the background check done. In other words, the state has one week to disallow the sale, and if the state doesn't do so within that time, the shop and purchaser are free & clear.

By practice, however, no gun shop in the state will release the firearm before the State Police finish the background check... even back in the bad old days when it often took more than a month. The State Police is the issuing authority for a Maryland handgun sales license, and they've told FFLs that they'll revoke the license of any shop that transfers a gun before the background check is completed regardless of the delay.

In fairness to the MSP, they've increased the staff at the firearms section to the point where checks very rarely take more than the statutorily mandated time. But with the sudden rush to buy -- especially given impending MD state legislation -- it's become overwhelming. According to one of the head guys at my LGS, the State Police had 6,500 checks backed up as of Friday.

[littlejerry]

I just ordered a glock 17 through GSSF and was told "maybe next month, but it'll get here when it gets here."

This was one of the larger distributors that gets blue label guns right next door to Glock in Smyrna.

[justintime]

I went to the SAXET gun show yesterday. no ak's under 1400. there was an actual surprising amount of ar15s at ridiculous prices... which I consider good as the demand clearly is lower. But almost no glocks, m&p's or hks to be seen. Primarily I was seeing nagants exc. The magazine vendors were all but absent and same for the ammo people. All the local stores I have seen are still missing ammo and freedom munitions is still sold out. I have noticed gun broker prices going down a lot too.

[TGS]

I was at the LGS yesterday to fill out my MD background check paperwork for my Caspian frame (upcoming Heirloom gun). The State Police is backed up to 3-4 weeks right now. The last pistols I received, the paperwork was back in 3-4 days.

By law, the gun shop is allowed to release the gun to a customer after one week even if the state doesn't get the background check done. In other words, the state has one week to disallow the sale, and if the state doesn't do so within that time, the shop and purchaser are free & clear.

By practice, however, no gun shop in the state will release the firearm before the State Police finish the background check... even back in the bad old days when it often took more than a month. The State Police is the issuing authority for a Maryland handgun sales license, and they've told FFLs that they'll revoke the license of any shop that transfers a gun before the background check is completed regardless of the delay.

In fairness to the MSP, they've increased the staff at the firearms section to the point where checks very rarely take more than the statutorily mandated time. But with the sudden rush to buy -- especially given impending MD state legislation -- it's become overwhelming. According to one of the head guys at my LGS, the State Police had 6,500 checks backed up as of Friday.

6,500 checks.....as in NICS checks, or the MD background check? What's the difference between the two?

As for the 10 day rule, it sounds like NJ where the law says that police must process our purchase permits within 45 days or else they have to issue one....which they never will. Most PD's will routinely take longer (mostly on purpose). I'm not sure what the going rate for a purchase permit is right now....mine took 3 weeks way back when.

[ToddG]

TGS -- I don't know the details, but Maryland on paper has the ability to look into more than a standard NICS check. For example, you are now required to sign a release giving the State Police the power to examine your mental health records. I have absolutely no idea when, or if, or how MSP does that or any other part of the background check beyond just NICS.

For complete guns, they also get a spent shell casing which is cataloged ostensibly for tracking guns used in crimes. My recollection is that the database has been successfully used once, in a case where not only the criminal but the gun itself were already in police custody making the need for the database exactly zero. But it sounded good in the Baltimore Sun.

[TCinVA]

TGS -- I don't know the details, but Maryland on paper has the ability to look into more than a standard NICS check. For example, you are now required to sign a release giving the State Police the power to examine your mental health records. I have absolutely no idea when, or if, or how MSP does that or any other part of the background check beyond just NICS.

For complete guns, they also get a spent shell casing which is cataloged ostensibly for tracking guns used in crimes. My recollection is that the database has been successfully used once, in a case where not only the criminal but the gun itself were already in police custody making the need for the database exactly zero. But it sounded good in the Baltimore Sun.

Tens of millions of dollars...solves one crime that was going to be solved anyway.

Great success!

[MDS]

Swung by lgs today. Saw some .308 and 5.56 for outrageous prices. Saw some 9mm American eagle 115gr for $.50/rd - there was a whole case of it. Still no 9mm glocks, and still no 300blk...

[JM Campbell]

6,500 checks.....as in NICS checks, or the MD background check? What's the difference between the two?

As for the 10 day rule, it sounds like NJ where the law says that police must process our purchase permits within 45 days or else they have to issue one....which they never will. Most PD's will routinely take longer (mostly on purpose). I'm not sure what the going rate for a purchase permit is right now....mine took 3 weeks way back when.

God I love TX....last purchase was 15 min and out the door, of course with a CHL.

[Kyle Reese]

God I love TX....last purchase was 15 min and out the door, of course with a CHL.

Virginia is pretty sweet too. :)

[Odin Bravo One]

JV's computer-fu is much stronger than mine..........and found me 220 projo's.

BOOM!

JV is the man.


(We need an "I'm not worthy" smiley thingy)

[TGS]

Virginia is pretty sweet too. :)

I always got delayed at least a day in Virginia. Lots of criminals with my name, I guess.

[JV_]

I always got delayed at least a day in Virginia. Lots of criminals with my name, I guess.

I'm regularly delayed if I use one particular shop. It happens at least every other check. If I use another shop, which I've done 6 times recently, I don't get delayed.

-Sent using Tapatalk.

[JV_]

JV's computer-fu is much stronger than mine..........and found me 220 projo's.

BOOM!

JV is the man.


(We need an "I'm not worthy" smiley thingy)

I'm glad I could help! Spending other people's money is a skill of mine :)

-Sent using Tapatalk.

[Tamara]

Tens of millions of dollars...solves one crime that was going to be solved anyway.

Great success!


http://youtu.be/ZXVN7QJ8m88

[ezthumper]

(We need an "I'm not worthy" smiley thingy)


http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n597/ezthumper01/emot-worship_zps2105f20b.gif

[jumpthestack]

If one store has inventory and another doesn't, it's most likely that the one that has inventory is setting their prices appropriately and the one that has no inventory has their prices too low. I think stores are increasing prices now to the point where supply/demand equilibrium is restored and that's why they have availability again.

[Kyle Reese]

Oh how I wish 100 million rounds of European manufactured 9x19 FMJ would be imported in the next few days......

[Chemsoldier]

The two biggest gun stores in Colorado Springs are still sold out of all centerfire semi-auto rifles. Glocks (all calibers and sizes) and most of the lower cost (not talking cheap) semi-auto pistols and even the expensive 9mms are sold out. J-Frames are gone as well, interestingly. I think that may have something to do with the 1600 CCW permit application appointments that have been made by the Sheriff's Department in the last 2 weeks alone. They do permit applications by appointment only and the are backed up almost 80 days right now.

I think within the general run on guns, you have a run on CCW guns due to people getting their permits who had been dithering before.

[littlejerry]

Oh how I wish 100 million rounds of European manufactured 9x19 FMJ would be imported in the next few days......

That would be spectacular. I wish I knew who would be carrying some of that hypothetical ammo at a reasonable price.

At first I thought I'd be able to weather the storm comfortably for the next 6 months but a few family members decided to become new gun owners. Now its on me to find/supply ammo for the training I'm pushing them all to take.

[CCT125US]

Stopped by the Gander Mtn in Huber Heights today. They actually had plenty of nice bolt guns, shotguns, and pistols. Several Glocks, M&P, Sigs, H&K, lots of revolvers. As far as the HK line they had 5 or so P2000SK in .40, 3 P30s in 9, several USP series. As far as ammo, they had several shelves of .380, .357, .40 each. No 5.56, and surprise, no AR pattern rifles. It was actually refreshing to see so many guns for a change. I did find it interesting in the used section they had 30 or so Lucznik P83 and P64s. Looks like they found a surplus buy and stocked up. Prices were stupid high as per Gander policy. A box of .38Spec +P was going for $45. American Eagle had a combo pack of .45LC and .410 handgun ammo at $65 per 70 rounds. Overall it was a good selection comared to other local shops. The shelves had many empty slots but I thought they had a good selection. And as usual, the customers and the staff were entertaining.

[abu fitna]

I definitely can second observation on the increasing sales of CCW type weapons. I have been watching a lot of new folks put in for the first time, and a lot of folks picking up a new EDC along with it.

A clerk at the Fairfax courthouse said that they had over 1,000 applications just in January 2013. That is a not trivial demand indicator, especially considering how many folks in the county work in places where carry (or even parking lot storage) are banned.

[JAD]

At first I thought I'd be able to weather the storm comfortably...
I know, right? Here I am sitting behind a moderately comfortable amount of my own .45 auto, when My New Favorite Gunsmith texts me with a short lead time on a p35 project that I figured would take months.

Anyone got 10k small pistol primers they don't need?

[Odin Bravo One]

Oh how I wish 100 million rounds of European manufactured 9x19 FMJ would be imported in the next few days......

You're supposed to shoot them Fred, not eat them............are you out of what we traded for already?

I need a 625JM or Delta Elite...........I can part with a few K of my 9mm fodder stash for either of those! ;)

[mizer67]

Anyone got 10k small pistol primers they don't need?

I can spare 10K CCI SPPs if you can figure out how to ship them legally?