Gimme Five Feet!!!!

[NETim]

I watched a video tonight produced by a nationally known "street smarts" guy. In it he mentions that when a potential threat approaches, challenging him with "Gimme Five Feet" will (might?) stop him as cons know what that means.

Other than that, it was pretty standard stuff IMHO. Instead of "Condition White" or "Yellow" he used "Code One" or "Two." Why, I don't know. Everyone uses Cooper's system that I'm aware of. It's not like it's copyrighted or something.

Anyway, "Gimme Five Feet!" Good? Bad? Indifferent?

[Zhurdan]

Mind telling us who it was or what channel? Youtube? I'd be interested in seeing it.

Hell, I'd ask for 21 feet. :)

[NETim]

Mind telling us who it was or what channel? Youtube? I'd be interested in seeing it.

Hell, I'd ask for 21 feet. :)

"Safe In The Street" by Marc MacYoung, produced in '93.

I'd want 'em stopped long before 5 feet as well. Just wondering if the phrase would be effective as a deterrent or more akin to waving a red cape in a bull's face.

[MD7305]

The "gimme" part immediately made me think Lynard Skynard "Gimme Three Steps" but that's cause I'm a product of my environment. "Gimme five feet, gimme five feet mister, and you'll never see no more.":)

[gringop]

An old expression from the California penal system, supposedly it would engage the ex-cons subconscious memory and they would back off. Goofiest thing I have ever heard of.

You might as well shout "You'll spend a night in the box!" in the hope that they have watched Cool Hand Luke and would think you are The Captain.

I've got some MacYoung books, they are entertaining with little self defense value.


Gringo (Animal) P

[NETim]

An old expression from the California penal system, supposedly it would engage the ex-cons subconscious memory and they would back off. Goofiest thing I have ever heard of.

You might as well shout "You'll spend a night in the box!" in the hope that they have watched Cool Hand Luke and would think you are The Captain.

I've got some MacYoung books, they are entertaining with little self defense value.


Gringo (Animal) P

I wondered the same thing. My thoughts are that I would be playing someone I'm not, and the words really wouldn't be authentic.

[TCinVA]

I watched a video tonight produced by a nationally known "street smarts" guy. In it he mentions that when a potential threat approaches, challenging him with "Gimme Five Feet" will (might?) stop him as cons know what that means.


Absent some sort of data to back that up, I'm going to have to bring up the example of one guy asking the other "You read the book, I read the book, but did the bear read the book?"

The criminal who is trying to encroach on you isn't interested in a conversation. He's likely trying to fixate you on what he's saying and isn't terribly receptive to what you're saying. How you vocalize whatever it is you vocalize and your body language when doing so are likely to be much bigger factors than what, specifically, you're saying.

Telling someone to "back the ***CENSORED*** up!" didn't have any impact for me. Upping the volume to 11, taking an aggressive posture, and beginning my draw had quite an impact.

[Zhurdan]

Having worked at a bar for several years now (part time job), body posture speaks much louder than words, as I'm sure most of you already know.


"See, what you do is, you turn your right hip away thustly, giving the illusion that you have a gun. You place your hand on your right hip thustly and speak in an authoritative tone. Oh, and If you remember one thing from today, it's this: the mind is the only weapon that doesn't need a holster." ;)

Making solid eye contact (not staring though) seems to work well at an even further distance.

[Cecil Burch]

I'd take anything MacYoung says and file it under "fantasyland".

[TCinVA]

I'd take anything MacYoung says and file it under "fantasyland".

Good enough for me.

[Dropkick]

I'd take anything MacYoung says and file it under "fantasyland".

Yup. ^

Heck, I'm "white and nerdy." No hardened street thug is going to change his mind because I knew some magic password or secret handshake.

[Byron]

Like many other "tricks" in the self-defense world, this one seems to be built on a series of unverifiable assumptions:


That your potential attacker has spent time in prison. (Not a bad assumption, actually)
That "Gimme Five Feet!" was a common phrase in his prison of residence. (Can anyone actually verify that this is a common phrase still used in all U.S. prisons, or more likely, was it common to a particular region or period of time?)
That your potential attacker was so thoroughly institutionalized, not only does he fear/respect prison guards, but through some magical transitive property he would fear/respect you just for talking like one. (If the first two assumptions weren't already dangerous enough, here's where the wheels really start falling off)


While I think that all three are problematic assumptions, I think the third is the most dangerous. Why? Because even if we were to stipulate that this phrase would be understood by the potential attacker, and even if we stipulate that the phrase would activate some deep association in his brain, why would we ever assume that is a beneficial association?

Or put another way: who says that an ex-con wouldn't want to hurt you more after he heard you using 'screw' lingo? What if rather than activating fear and submission in his mind, you activate rage and violence? What if the effort of trying to sound like a guard succeeds, but that only makes you a more appealing target? After all, a prison guard being attacked on the outside is not unheard of.

[SouthNarc]

This is the second stupid piece of advice (IMO) from someone purporting to teach "street smarts" that I've seen mentioned recently. Not that I'm surprised.....

[Kyle Reese]

I thought this was a promotion for a Subway 5 foot sandwich or something. :D

[Mitchell, Esq.]

The only time I could ever see this working would be if the person demanding 5 feet was so utterly menacing that the attack would never have taken place with enough warning to demand the 5 feet.

[SouthNarc]

Here's a question! Why would a thug listen to someone who purported to be a correctional officer when he's not in jail?:rolleyes:

[Mitchell, Esq.]

From what I can call out of my own memory of this video, the theory was that this 5 feet statement was the immediate precursor to a major ass whooping if not instantly complied with.

Of course, this did not take into account criminal realizing he should then attack immediately before the purported ass whoopIng commenced.

It may have something to do with assuming your attacker will be a complete moron and anticipating "best case scenario of worst case scenario" - the same thing that many people who say " well sure you may need a gun for self defense, but a little 38 will do just fine. You don't need one of those assault pistols with a 17 round magazine to defend yourself when a little revolver will do just as well!"

[Dagga Boy]

This is right up there with "using language of the street". I wish people would stop with this crap. Non-hardened decent citizens look ridiculous when trying to act hard. You aren't. Its generally why you have been chosen as a victim. Don't try to play police no matter how many times you have watched cops. If you aren't an illiterate ghetto rat, don't talk like one. If you are not a correctional officer, don't talk like one. If you aren't a hardened metropolitan street cop, don't talk like one. You will sound like an idiot, and you may invoke a response you don't want. "Stay in your lane" applies on the street. Clear, short, concise, commands like "stop", "don't move" "get away from me" are far better than trying to speak a language you don't really speak. For those not daily tasked with dealing with animals, trying to gauge when and where to use what terms is adding complexity into a situation where you need to be running on simple.

[JDM]

This is right up there with "using language of the street". I wish people would stop with this crap. Non-hardened decent citizens look ridiculous when trying to act hard. You aren't. Its generally why you have been chosen as a victim. Don't try to play police no matter how many times you have watched cops. If you aren't an illiterate ghetto rat, don't talk like one. If you are not a correctional officer, don't talk like one. If you aren't a hardened metropolitan street cop, don't talk like one. You will sound like an idiot, and you may invoke a response you don't want. "Stay in your lane" applies on the street. Clear, short, concise, commands like "stop", "don't move" "get away from me" are far better than trying to speak a language you don't really speak. For those not daily tasked with dealing with animals, trying to gauge when and where to use what terms is adding complexity into a situation where you need to be running on simple.

This is an incredibly good post.

Thank you!

[ezthumper]

Spoke with my ex-wife who is a Sgt. for the DOC in California, and she said she has never used that term or heard of it except in a song.

Basically when they do a challenge, extraction, contraband search or whatever they say a few things that I cannot relay here, and the proceed to do whatever they need to get it done. Normally it involves big dudes, shields, head gear, sticks and medical attention.

She did mention the only thing that it may relate to, is to tell them to back away from the cell door when you have to take them out of the cell for some reason.

[JMS]

Related to "language of the street:"

What logic string includes the ridiculous idea that the urchins talk the same way today that they did in '93....? That's 20 YEARS AGO!

[Ed L]

I remember reading a book or two from Marc MacYoung decades ago.

In one he asserted that a sword was a better home defense weapon for a woman than a firearm.

In another he claimed to have been in several bullwhip fights.

A dozen years ago he appeared at a seminat with several other self defense instructors (Rich Dimitri & Sammy Franco). Marc was demonstrating part of his knife defense which consisted of bringing your hand and arm to the side of his head as though bringing a phone to his ear.

In demonstrating it at half speed, he wound up having a rubber knife slice his throat.

He turned to the audience without missing a beat and asked, "What just happened?" as though it were planned.

Audience members responeded, "Uh, you got your throat cut."

To which MacYoung responded, "Yes, but how deep?" --as though getting your throat sliced requires a deep cut to be life threatening.

[TGS]

To which MacYoung responded, "Yes, but how deep?" --as though gutting your throat sliced required a deep cut to be life threatening.

Did people get up and leave at that point?

[will_1400]

Why five feet? That's still well within kicking range for me which is too freaking close for me to have an aggressive and presubably violent opponent who hasn't been lit up yet. Makes no sense whatsoever. And yelling at a probably ex-con like you're a corrections officer is more likely to get you the response you don't want. EPIC FAIL.

[Cecil Burch]

I remember reading a book or two from Marc MacYoung decades ago.

In one he asserted that a sword was a better home defense weapon for a woan than a firearm.

In another he claimed to have been in several bullwhip fights.

A dozen years ago he appeared at a seminat with several other self defense instructors (Rich Dimitri & Sammy Franco). Marc was demonstrating part of his knife defense which consisted of bringing your hand and arm to the side of his head as though bringing a phone to his ear.

In demonstrating it at half speed, he wound up having a rubber knife slice his throat.

He turned to the audience without missing a beat and asked, "What just happened?" as though it were planned.

Audience members responeded, "Uh, you got your throat cut."

To which MacYoung responded, "Yes, but how deep?" --as though getting your throat sliced requires a deep cut to be life threatening.


He also in one book talked about walking down he street, and out of the corner of his eye seeing a "really dangerous appearing guy", and reacting defensively. Then he realized he was looking at his own reflection in a window.........

Uh huh.

[SeriousStudent]

Does he have a set of DVD's I can buy?

I foresee a new drinking game at my next BBQ. "Spot the Tacticool Fail". The first person to see the error yells "FAIL!". You stop the DVD, and everyone else has to drink a shot. Winner is the last one still conscious, and gets to eat all the BBQ.

Yes, no, maybe?

[NETim]

:) I had no idea this thread would become so entertaining. :)

I don't think this video was ALL bad. But the "Gimme 5 Feet" thing just didn't ring true to me.

[Ed L]

He also in one book talked about walking down he street, and out of the corner of his eye seeing a "really dangerous appearing guy", and reacting defensively. Then he realized he was looking at his own reflection in a window.........

Uh huh.

When someone makes a statement like Cecil quoted above, that person has lost most if not all credibility.

[Ed L]

I don't think this video was ALL bad. But the "Gimme 5 Feet" thing just didn't ring true to me.

I had the video tape a long time ago and sold it on Ebay at least 10 years ago.

I remember it having some decent basic info about how criminals might approach you and such. At the time it came out there might not have been as much of that info available to the average person whose lives were mostly removed from such things. But now there are better videos/DVD, much better instructors, and better sources of online information.

When someone teaches things that I recognize as highly questionable or stupid, it brings their credibility into question. I also don't recommend against them because not everyone can recognize and filter the stupid and dangerous things that these people advocate.

[Hatchetman]

I think Marc is marketing himself and filling what market niches he can. Appears these days he's moved into a deescalation/legal use of lethal force sphere and indeed has been banging a gong for a lot of years that some martial practices may land you in jail. Alas he won't say in a paragraph what he can't rattle on about for a page, tends to be didactic about the lessons of his bar brawling days, and, as mentioned, has had several instances where he's shown he talks it better than he walks it. With that said his excitable boy prose style amuses me so I do read him every now and then.

[Ed L]

In reading over this thread I notice that sometimes I overedit my posts to the point where some sentances contradict themselves and contradict what I am trying to say.

What I meant to say in the quote below was that I don't recommend people like MacYoung because even though they may make some valid points, they also make some stupid and dangerous ones, and not everyone can recognize and filter out the stupid and dangerous things that they say.


When someone teaches things that I recognize as highly questionable or stupid, it brings their credibility into question. I also don't recommend against them because not everyone can recognize and filter the stupid and dangerous things that these people advocate.

[jthhapkido]

Seems odd to me that lots of people are having problems with a video that was produced almost 20 years ago----a time in which the culture, the terminology, and the general self-defense knowledge was very different. Matter of fact, it interests me that that the focus was on "gimme 5 feet" as opposed to his commentary on the specific precursors to attack, the commentary on attention and awareness, etc.

Instead, what was chosen was a time-dependent phrase that may have been temporarily useful in a specific place.

Well, yes, that does make it easy to say it sucks. :)

Regarding his later stuff----hm. I've seen MacYoung in a couple of different seminars. And like everyone, I've seen him make mistakes. (and own up to them) I've also seen him teach a lot of good stuff. In addition, his commentary and work (along with Rory Miller) regarding Conflict Communications has some excellent stuff in it.

He is certainly wordy when he writes, and he certainly has a unique tone to his writing, some of which can be very annoying.

However, hearing lots of people dismiss him as a has-been (or wording like it) is interesting. Reading his older stuff it is certainly true that parts of it are incredibly dated, and the writing style matches the times. On the other hand, his commentary regarding assaults, precursors, and such, is still relevant. His newer stuff, especially the parts regarding legal aspects of self-defense, is worth reading.

YMMV, of course.

[Byron]

Matter of fact, it interests me that that the focus was on "gimme 5 feet" as opposed to his commentary on the specific precursors to attack, the commentary on attention and awareness, etc.
The thread title is "Gimme Five Feet." The OP asked about the specific phrase, "Gimme Five Feet," because it stood out to him against what he otherwise considered standard commentary on awareness. I'm not sure why it's therefore "interesting" that the thread has focused on the phrase, "Gimme Five Feet." Why would the OP ask about other aspects of the material that he considered "pretty standard"?
:confused:


...Other than that, it was pretty standard stuff IMHO. Instead of "Condition White" or "Yellow" he used "Code One" or "Two."...

[jthhapkido]

The thread title is "Gimme Five Feet." The OP asked about the specific phrase, "Gimme Five Feet," because it stood out to him against what he otherwise considered standard commentary on awareness. I'm not sure why it's therefore "interesting" that the thread has focused on the phrase, "Gimme Five Feet." Why would the OP ask about other aspects of the material that he considered "pretty standard"?
:confused:

Probably because as I read the thread itself, quite a few parts discussed the "gimme five feet" and made judgements on the instructor based on that one point.

Discussing the point itself, of course, makes sense--after all, that is what the question was about. However, using a single point from which to develop an entire opinion seems a little strange. Of course, we did have the standard followup of "oh, I know that guy, he sucks" that is common on forums, so that probably influenced people too.