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View Full Version : AAR: Gunsite 250 January 21-25, 2013



Ray Keith
01-28-2013, 12:56 PM
The 250 has been a bucket list class for me since I started shooting a pistol. The collision of time and money never worked and I went years without going. After making it a priority and putting $ away over time, I finally made it. I have had quite a bit of previous instruction, so I was not going in as a beginner. It was about a 12 hour drive each way, when it was all said and done, a long week.

I used my EDC pistol, a Glock 17 and rotated between 2 IWB holsters and a "range" holster. Class instructions called for 1,000 rounds. I shot approximately 875. I had the general impression of Gunsite "doctrine" and wondered how that would all work out. I don't shoot Weaver-ish, I don't carry a .45 etc.. In the end as I had hoped it didn't matter a bit. The class was 15, 14 men 1 lady. 4 doctors, including 2 surgeons, 3 LEO's. Skill levels ranged from complete beginner to very skilled handgun shooters. There were two shooters (I'm one) who play IDPA. The class started off 1911 heavy and ended up with a balance of tupperware and 1911's. Several 1911's had problems and were at the Gunsmith shop from time to time. One student brought a .45 and ended up with a 9mm. I think several others decided polymer served their purpose better at this point in time and skill rather than the 1911 they brought. The class included folks from Florida, Ohio, Oklahoma, Texas, New Jersey, Arizona, Georgia?, among the ones I knew of.

There were 3 instructors all week. A lead instructor and 2 coaches. The lead instructor had military and law enforcement background. Both coaches had law enforcement backgrounds. All 3 were professional at all times. They were knowledgeable and able to convey what they knew. There was no attitude whatsoever and all 3 demonstrated a belief in the necessity of ordinary people being armed and able to defend themselves. Occasionally during the week current events related to the gun-grab in progress came up, it was clear where the instructors stood on these issues.

The Gunsite facility is a shooter's Disneyland. The ranges are immaculate, and everything is maintained. There is no trash or other junk laying around. We used 1 square range, 2 shoot houses, and 2 outdoor simulator's (wash). The final shoot off was in a 2nd square range. The primary pistol range went to 50 yards. Pics of the range and range shed for breaks, loading mags, water etc...

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Day 1

Monday morning starts with paperwork and other housekeeping before class starts at 8 am. It was 8 degrees on the truck thermometer when I got out at 7:30 a. I figured it would be good to figure out if Gun Butter freezes at that temp... (it doesn't) and how manipulations go with frozen hands.

At 8 the owner of Gunsite Buz Mills gave a brief welcome. The lead instructor then took over and introduced the coaches. The lecture this morning covered, general Gunsite rules, facilities, history, do's, don't's etc... The bathroom "pegs" are interesting...you need to go. During warmer months the bathroom doors need to be closed at all times or you may find yourself sitting next to another bathroom visitor who happened to come in for water. We then had a thorough safety briefing, safety violations wouldn't be tolerated and each of the 4 rules was covered in some detail. A couple of incidents involving Gunsite students were discussed as well. Following the 4 rules, additional range rules were covered.

The lecture next went to the Modern Technique as developed by Cooper and those shooters who he learned from and incorporated into the technique. Basic shooting principles were covered, Cooper's Combat Triad, and pistol nomenclature. The instructor that has given me the bulk of my training has a certificate from Gunsite when it was still A.P.I., much of this was familiar, with a new thought or twist on it here and there.

The 5 elements of the Modern Technique were explained in detail.

We hit the range about 9:30, I'd guess it was maybe 18-20 degrees.

The instructors do a quick orientation of the range and rules. They then look at each shooter's stance and grip. The lead instructor noticed my cross-dominance issue immediately and offered a suggestion. He believed that this adjustment would be advantageous in dealing with the issue. It will take time for me to figure out if I can adopt it or not. What I do now is engrained, which isn't to suggest it is the best way, but it will take time to change. He also obviously saw my stance and grip and asked how long, who taught etc... That as the last that was said about it. There was never any "coercion" to shoot Weaver, they ask that you try, that is all. In Ayoob's MAG 40 he also has you try Weaver, Chapman and Isosceles, no coercion there to shoot one way or another. They certainly believe in their doctrine and with beginning students they are more firm about it. This shouldn't be a reason for someone not to go to Gunsite in my opinion.

We began discussing trigger reset, and started with controlled pairs at 3, 5, and 7 focusing on trigger reset. We used a Gunsite target, I have heard called a "furbee" it is a vague pattern, no bright clear circles, but faint head and body zones.

This continued until lunch at about 11:30 a. Lunch is either brought by you or you buy from the caterer. If you have traveled in the caterer is probably easier. You get a chance to roam the immediate area (not the ranges) and browse the pro-shop.

The afternoon consisted of discussion of scanning, simply waiving the pistol around wasn't going to cut it. It was followed by instruction in the Gunsite presentation, also very similar to my previous instruction. At this point the "speed reholster" was discussed and that it would not be tolerated. Reloads were covered, Gunsite teaches a tac-load for use "when time and circumstances allow". It is not appropriate for a fight. The speed reload was also discussed along with the emergency reload. Dry work and drills usually accompanied each topic. Hammer's were then discussed compared with controlled pairs. They also emphasized that despite teaching pairs, drawing, firing two shots and reholstering, is not tactically sound. There may be times when something else is required. The non-standard response was covered later. The afternoon range work concluded with a single "dot drill", and pairs at 3, 5, 7 and 10.

A classroom session ended the day, on dry fire. Safe dry fire took up the bulk of the time, with more stories of people shooting holes in motel room walls etc.. They offered a ballistic target for each student to borrow if they wished for night time dry fire.

Day 2

The morning temp soared to 11 degrees as we started on the range, thankfully no wind. We started with about 15 minutes of dry work, to warm up (literally). Drills took up most of the morning, pairs at 3, 5, 7, 10 and single head shots at 3. A re-lecture on scanning ensued when there were too many casual or ignored scans after drills. Time was spent explaining that perfect sight alignment isn't required for close range along with a demo. The morning ended with a shoot off on steel from 7 yards. The afternoon started with discussion, demo and practice of malfunction drills. The afternoon also was the start of the use of pneumatic turning targets instead of them remaining static. The times got shorter as the week went on, until you got to the required times for the standards testing you would get on Friday. Pairs were shot on the turners at 3, 5, 7, 10 for the remainder of the range time.

About 3:15 we went back to the classroom for a lecture on ballistics. Gunsite doctrine says .45 is best. However they do not say or teach that it is the only way. Proper shot placement is far more important. Not all of the instructors carry 1911's. The instructors provide the reasoning behind the doctrine and why they advocate it. You can accept or reject it, but they have their reasons and they aren't willy-nilly. The instructors also provided the other side of the coin-where the ".45 or nothing" types, stretch the truth to dismiss the 9mm or .40. I found it to be a balanced discussion of the caliber "war". In the instructor's opinion, Federal HST or Winchester Ranger SXT are the two brands they suggest. They don't dismiss the others, but believe these two are the best available. A noted member of this forum has his work on this subject in the course notebook provided by Gunsite. The Miami Shootout is discussed some and the ever-changing winds of law enforcement and military ammo choices is covered. In essence Gunsite doctrine is "bigger is better" but there is a limit to that, and also it is not offered as the only way.

Day 3

Truck temperature is a chilly 15 degrees this morning, thankfully we start in the classroom with the mindset lecture. In my opinion, based on the way the course was presented, this is the essence of Gunsite. Not Weaver, not .45 ACP or some other hardware. Mindset underlies everything that is taught in the 250. A mindset lecture video is shown done by Col. Cooper. It appears, based upon the hair and clothing seem to be early Reagan Administration. Cooper does mention that he developed the color codes "6 years ago", perhaps someone here can date the video based on that. The instructor starts the video by saying "this is Col. Cooper in his prime and on top of his game" in a mindset lecture. Among the main points: you must accept that "it" can happen to you, maybe now, maybe tonight, accept it and learn to deal with it if it comes. Your mindset must not be "I can't believe this is happening to me" but instead "I thought this might happen one day."

Cooper covers the color codes in detail.

Mechanical problems/shooting problems are often easy to solve, anyone can be taught. The mental preparation for combat (he emphasizes that someone trying to kill you or hurt you is combat, regardless of where it occurs) is the tough part. Some people cannot accept or deal with the concept. Defensive mindset and it's value is borne out by results from the street Cooper says.

Cooper believes that the more skill and confidence in your skills you have, the less likely you are to ever need to use them. People with lesser skills and confidence resort to the gun sooner and exercise poorer judgment in violent encounters.

The video ends and the instructors pick back up. Stating from the beginning that some of Cooper's stuff is "dated", his terminology and certain attitudes may not correlate well today. The instructors emphasize that you must know the law where you are. If you don't, when faced with a violent encounter your mind will go to the question of law and legality whether you want it to or not. This creates lag time in your response. Cell phones, pda's and the havoc they wreak on living in yellow is discussed.

We go to the range around 9:30, it's now 20. More drills are followed by 3 kneeling positions, demos and practice. Students who are unable to kneel without pain are not required to do so. Same with rollover prone. Kneeling is pain riddled for me, but I lack the good sense not to do it. After lunch failure drills are discussed, demo'd and practiced. The afternoon concludes with turns: L, R, 180 and barricade shooting. Around 3 we travel to the Playhouse:

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One of the shoot houses we used. One of the coaches then lectures on interior techniques and the other on exterior techniques. We go in the house and as we move through it the coach lectures. The primary teaching point is "don't do this." They teach you if you must, but clearing spaces is a bad bad idea, particularly alone. If you don't have to, wait and call people who get paid to clear buildings. We learn basics on doorways, angles, movement, opening doors, open space vs closed space. They also emphasize the importance of knowing your house and property, and at night, walking them in the dark. Same principles apply outdoors. It is a very eye-opening hour.

Day 4

We start on the range, with groups going to the simulators or doing drills. It is in the mid-20's which is downright balmy. The skies are a little threatening. We do school drills at all the tested yardages. You then go to the Playhouse and the Donga for your teaching runs through the simulators. The instructor coaches you along if necessary, explaining your good and bad decisions. You learn a lot and frankly the Donga is one of the most fun things during the week. You shoot frangible in the simulators.

After your run through the simulators you work on the El Pres. The Gunsite El Pres is 10 yards, 3 "furbee" targets, 2, 2, 2, speed reload, 2, 2, 2. Gunsite scoring is 5 pts for a hit in the proper zone (basically a smaller down zero on IDPA target) 2 pts for anywhere else on the body. 10 seconds is par time. For each second above 10 you subtract 5 points. For each second below 10 you add 5 points. My runs were consistently around high 40's to low 50's from concealment. The shot timer was brought out which caused the pavlovian gamer reaction, so I tried to slow down and get good hits. Reloads under this time pressure were eye opening for many students. At this point it is drizzling or light rain and fairly miserable.

We then cover the Gunsite method for movement and NSR's. Drills are done for each following demos. Due to the rain we head back to the classroom early. There we get a lecture on low light and flashlights. Gunsite teaches 120 lumens minimum and in this class teaches the FBI and the Harries. They are demo'd dry in the classroom. They emphasize having a light with you all the time. Issues associated with human eyes in the dark are discussed, the Diallo shooting in NYC is discussed, and myths are dispelled about using your 9000 lumen strobing light at 25 yards to render your opponent helpless. One limited use of the strobing light is demo'd and the proper purpose of strobing is explained.

The strengths and weaknesses of the FBI and the Harries are covered. We break until 5 pm, when there will be night and low light shooting.

By the time the night shoot starts it is very foggy and heavy drizzle. Wet, cold hands and fog provide a great learning environment for me anyway. We begin with one handed shooting, strong hand. The 250 did not cover weak hand shooting. There were no one hand manipulations in this class only shooting.

Lights off movement following the shots is explained, demo'd and practiced. A "how fast are you?" test is given. 1 shot from the holster, best time. I managed what felt like a clumsy 1.22 in the dark, rain, cold etc...

Proper scanning with the light is taught and drilled.

Day 5

It felt so warm this morning I didn't remember to check, but I think it was around 30. By this point in the week, my knees hurt, hands hurt, back hurts etc... All the components of a too out of shape middle aged man. We start with drills on the square range and groups break off for the "real" runs through the simulators. The school drills (the ones that will be tested) are worked a lot. This morning there is a different wash used for the outdoor and back to the Playhouse for the indoor. You are videotaped in the Playhouse and given a flash drive with your video when you leave at the end of the day. This time through the simulators the instructors say nothing other than as I understand it, "bang, you're dead" if you screw up. I never had to hear that, but I'm sure I was so slow that whoever I was trying to reach died anyway...

On the square range you work the El Pres more along with the school drills. Getting into position fast is key on the kneeling and rollover prone. If you are slow there isn't time to shoot. At this point in the week, getting into position quickly for me involves some discomfort. After the lunch break, testing is done. I shoot a 42/50 on the school drills and a 55 on the El Pres (40 pts in 7 seconds), I'm disappointed in both. Rollover prone kills me and going too fast in El Pres hurt too.

The man on man shoot off is last, 2 small round pieces of steel at maybe 5 and 10 then a speed reload with your 1/2 of a steel popper at maybe 7 yards. I draw the best shooter in the class, we're even until I cannot get a good press on my mag release and he beats me. Got all 3 hits in 3 shots, the reload lost it for me. My opponent was an excellent shooter, even with a clean reload he may have won anyway. He goes on to win the shoot off and is awarded the top shooter in the class.

Final talk in the classroom, certificate presentation, other goodies they pass out. You complete evals on the instructors, and as they say "if you don't live here, get out of here."

Final thoughts:

It lived up to my expectations. Money and time well spent. If money and time allowed I would go back. Yes it is expensive. However it is a well-oiled machine, very efficient and student oriented. Nice people, that matters to me. I don't need to spend money to be around assholes, I do that for free in areas of my work. As I said, Disney for shooters. I would have liked a tour, just to see all of the ranges and playgrounds they have. I was never "you're just a civilian'd" never talked down to, and always taught-not skimmed over. You break safety rules you can expect a chewing, it shouldn't be any other way. Like good instructors should, they leave you motivated and with more skill and confidence than you came with. The beginner students made huge strides, they were different people. I didn't see anyone that seemed to have a bad time. You can expect some good natured grief, if you are thin-skinned, it might not be for you. They are equipped to deal with all the problems a new shooter has, bad gear, gear that doesn't work for them, a gunsmith on site, a pro-shop with what you forgot or discovered you need.

Despite the misery, I think it was very beneficial to shoot and gun-handle in single digit temps. I learned a lot about gear in general and my ability to function in that environment with no gloves (not allowed).

They don't beat on you with doctrine. If you are a beginner, it seems to me you would do well to do what they teach, there is time to do your own thing later. If you do something else, like me, you do well to absorb what they are teaching, if it works for you great, if not, you still learned. I left with a ton of new things even though I don't shoot "their way".

Negatives? Maybe the utility of 25 yard prone shooting in an entry level class. The road in from the highway...wow, unbelievably rough. More seating in the "shed". It wouldn't bother me to go another hour longer during the day. No class photo, not sure why, I like them-YMMV.

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GJM
01-28-2013, 01:05 PM
Well done, AAR! I know it takes quite a bit of effort to organize a thoughtful AAR like this.

Brings back memories. I did my first Gunsite class, along with my wife, in 1991, API 270 rifle taught by Jeff Cooper, just before we went to Botswana hunting on our honeymoon. Took 250 the following year, and many more classes since then.

Kyle Reese
01-28-2013, 01:16 PM
Outstanding AAR. I plan to train at GS at some point in time.

Jay Cunningham
01-28-2013, 01:48 PM
That is one of the best AARs that I've ever had the pleasure to read.

If only more of them focused on the training and not the personalities...

*sigh*

Al T.
01-28-2013, 02:00 PM
Well done sir!

SeriousStudent
01-28-2013, 09:20 PM
Thank you for taking the time to create and post your AAR. Even if we do not get a chance to go there, you gave us a lot of good things to think about. I always appreciate the chance to learn from others.

Ed L
01-28-2013, 11:23 PM
That was a comprehensive and awesome AAR!

It seems like they covered quite a bit in their entry level pistol course.

I especially liked this point, as I feel it is an important reminder:


The instructors emphasize that you must know the law where you are. If you don't, when faced with a violent encounter your mind will go to the question of law and legality whether you want it to or not. This creates lag time in your response.

vcdgrips
01-29-2013, 01:02 AM
Your observations regarding the soft sell of weaver and introduction of reset( along with a thumbs forward v. thumb over thumb grip) were surprising hallmarks of my Gunsite 250 in June of 07. Frankly, while the core doctrine and mindset focus have remained the same, Gunsite has unquestionably begun to evolve with the times, particularly regarding stance, grip and weapons platform.

My first shooting mentors were all multiple Gunsite grads from 1978 to date. All, in more candid moments, would acknowledge that Col Cooper could have his days, but was often much less strident in private and in the classroom setting beyond 250. They were all surprised at the schools' instructional evolutions.

I went to Gunsite with 19 of my closest shooting friends in a contracted class. We did the 250 with a bit more simulator/shoot house work. All of us shot 1911s. Once I demonstrated that I could hit at speed, My Iso oriented stance was all but ignored.

I suspect that there are very few pistolcraft teachers of note to date that are even but one generation removed from a Gunsite trained instructor.

Thank you for an excellent and comprehensive AAR.

David of vcdgrips.com