Week 62: El Presidente

[DocGKR]

Please read the rules (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1837-Drill-of-the-Week) before participating in this thread.

Week 62: El Presidente
results may be posted until 11:59pm EST on Monday 04-February-2013.

Range: 10 yds
Target: IPSC A-Zones or 8" circles (short bus version will use 3x5 cards)
Start position: concealed
Rounds fired: 12

Here is a link to the USPSA description of the drill: www.uspsa.org/classifiers/99-11.pdf

Set three targets at the 10 yd line. Space them 1 yd apart, each approximately at chest height. Note--if you shoot at a pansy range that will not let you set multiple targets, you may alternatively use three 3x5 cards oriented vertically and spread horizontally as far apart as possible on your target holder, as shown below:

1279

Face away from the targets with the hands held above the shoulders. On the start signal, turn and fire two rounds at each of the targets, perform a reload, and re-engage the each of the three targets with two rounds.

For purposes of this drill, any hits to the C-zone will add 2 sec to to your time; any hits to the D-zone or a full miss adds 10 sec to your time (there is no C-zone on a 3x5 card, so it is either a hit or a miss with the short bus version of the drill...).

Here is a link to Robert Vogel running the drill in 4.61 sec, but he gets a C, bumping his score to 6.61 sec:
http://s459.beta.photobucket.com/user/DocGKR/media/VogelElPrezsmall_zps748e7fa2.mp4.html.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Start position (pistol, holster type, concealment).
Target used.
Total time to complete the drill, number of hits to the A-zone, adjusted score with any penalties.


Note, if you need an IPSC A-zone, feel free to download this one and print on legal paper (8.5x14): http://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1018&d=1347302460. You can also use the 8" circle on the FAST target here: http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/fast-target.pdf, also printed on legal paper (8.5x14).

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

[Boxy]

Doc. Should the first string be engaged left to right would it not be appropriate to engage the second right to left or visa versa?

[DocGKR]

Vogel recommends shooting both strings L to R, for right hand shooters: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5859-Robert-Vogel-2-Day-Pistol-Class-AAR-01-Nov-2012. Also check the linked video of him doing just that: http://s459.beta.photobucket.com/user/DocGKR/media/VogelElPrezsmall_zps748e7fa2.mp4.html.

[JHC]

The Vogel El Prez vid is really slick. I've long heard the advice that one's splits and transition between targets should be the same and you can hear that in the vid. I've not managed to figure that out yet.

[MDS]

short bus version)

Doc, I appreciate you always having a "short bus version" of these drills. I hope to fix the lack of grown-up ranges in my AO by moving out of SoFla, but in the meanwhile this makes it possible for me to participate. :cool:

[JeffJ]

The Vogel El Prez vid is really slick. I've long heard the advice that one's splits and transition between targets should be the same and you can hear that in the vid. I've not managed to figure that out yet.

The Blake Drill is really helpful for this.

[JHC]

The Blake Drill is really helpful for this.

I shall search for that. Thanks!

edit - ah found it straight away in Ben Stoeger's book Champion Shooting. I just needed to read a couple more pages. ;)

[DocGKR]

G17 w/grip cut for G19 mags mounting an RMR06 and carried AIWB in a Fricke Seraphim concealed under an un-tucked long sleeve shirt and TNF vest firing Fed AE9FP 147 gr FMJ.

Shot on an IPSC A-zone target.

8.63 sec clean, with all A-zone hits.

[HoggerNaut]

The Blake Drill is really helpful for this.

Cant seem to find it. Can you maybe point me in a direction?

[JeffJ]

Cant seem to find it. Can you maybe point me in a direction?

Ben Stoeger's latest book explains it well. Basically it's a cadence drill - slow your splits to match your transistions and then gradually ramp them both up. So, if you have .20 splits and .40 transitions slow your splits down (It helps me to count out loud) until you are shooting everything at .40 (or really close) then gradually speed up until you can shoot .20 splits and transitions.

[HoggerNaut]

Much appreciated, thanks.

[Mr_White]

Shot this a bunch of times this week. I really got sucked into the drill out of frustration and shot it kind of obsessively. Over the last three days, I shot it ten times a day. I am kind of kicking myself for spending that much ammo on it, and it was very frustrating at times, but I think I made progress on transitions so hopefully it is worth it.

All of this was shot the usual way for me – Gen3 G34, Ameriglo Defoor sights, Blazer 124gr Cleanfire ammo, concealed in a Keeper under a t-shirt. I used USPSA targets on all runs.

Cold run Tuesday: 6.64 clean.

So that’s my score for the DotW. Based on my subsequent progression, that was actually a pretty strong run for me, especially cold. The rest of this amounts to practice.

I tried to progress a couple of ways. I did some runs going full speed ahead, especially trying to drag the transitions along at the same speed as my splits. I found this frustrating because my transitions on this just aren’t running at .2x with decent accuracy. There was a lot of instability when I stopped the gun and a lot of bad hits. Transitions are a weak point in my shooting and something I really need to practice to up my overall skill level.

When I shot it to be sure of the hits, splits were .2x but the transitions were back to .4x.

Then I tried the Blake drill method, having been reminded of it by the posts in this thread, slowing my splits to match the transitions, and it immediately worked really well. Hits got much better, though the overall time was a bit slower. As I tried to drive the splits and transitions down together, hits stayed pretty good and my transitions got below where they had been. I’m going to keep working on my transitions using this method. I found it very productive within the scope of this drill.

So, I basically ended up with a rough performance range of:

7-8 seconds – nearly guaranteed excellent hits, most of them in the upper half of the lower A zone.

6-7 seconds – probably good hits, but I would not say guaranteed.

5-6 seconds – there will probably be a few C-zone hits at this pace, but that is better than before I did this progression over the last few days.

Under 5 seconds – definitely too many Cs and a D here and there, but again that is better than before I did this progression.

Best clean run was 6.34. Using a different scoring scheme, the best run would probably have been around 5.5 with a couple of Cs.

Although it was frustrating and cost me a lot of valuable ammo, I felt like I realized a slightly higher level of performance in this drill, mostly from better transitions. By the end of this, I had a better level of visual awareness during the transitions and that led to better hits.

[ST911]

Like OrigamiAK, I shot this quite a bit working the transitions and splits. When firing at speeds for 100% confidence in A-zone hits, I was in the 12-14 second range with the guns and gear below. Pushing faster for speed, I got down into the ~9 second range but was losing 1-3 hits to the C zone. On the upside, my C-hits were almost-As. Not the goal, but not a D or a miss. There's work to be done. Scores for the record below are lowest times with misses.

Indoor range, and a delightful ~70 degrees
IPSC targets
Glock sport/combat tupperware holster and mag pouch, 3:00 OWB
Shot from concealment under long tee shirt

gen3 Glock 34 w/ Trijicon standard Trijicon NS, 5# trigger. Federal 147gr JHP (9MS)
9.92 sec, -2 to the C zone, 13.92

gen1 Glock 17 w/ Meprolight NS, Federal AE 115 FMJ (AE9DP)
9.77 sec, -1 to the C zone, 11.77

gen 4 Glock 19 w/ Trijicon HD, Federal AE 124 FMJ (AE9AP)
9.75, -3 to the C zone, 15.75

gen4 Glock 26 w/ Glock FS, Federal AE 115 FMJ (AE9DP)
10.8, -4 to the C zone, 18.80

[JHC]

Start position (pistol, holster type, concealment).
Target used.
Total time to complete the drill, number of hits to the A-zone, adjusted score with any penalties.
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Paper plate

Holster - Talon Tactical A10 OWB

Jacket Arcteryx LT Atom, 35 degrees and windy

Gen 4 G34 9.37 clean

Gen 3 G26 8.55 clean

Once again I find the little gun to run visibly flatter and faster for drills 10 yards and shorter. I have a lot of work to do on the Blake Drill discussed earlier. My transitions ave 0.5!

[Corey]

Short bus version is hard :p
M&P9 FS, open front concealment. I did three runs and had one miss on each run.
Run 1: 15.62, -1, final score 25.62
Run 2: 14.19, -1, final score 24.19
Run 3: 13.91, -1, final score 23.91
I missed on the first shot on two of the three runs. I would much rather shoot the regular version of the El Pres.

[JHC]

Short bus version is hard :p
M&P9 FS, open front concealment. I did three runs and had one miss on each run.
Run 1: 15.62, -1, final score 25.62
Run 2: 14.19, -1, final score 24.19
Run 3: 13.91, -1, final score 23.91
I missed on the first shot on two of the three runs. I would much rather shoot the regular version of the El Pres.

What distance is the 3x5 version shot at? 10 yds? :eek:

[Corey]

What distance is the 3x5 version shot at? 10 yds? :eek:

10 yards. Transitions are easier as the cards were only about 8 inches apart edge to edge, but trying to hit those cards fast at that distance is challenging!

[JHC]

10 yards. Transitions are easier as the cards were only about 8 inches apart edge to edge, but trying to hit those cards fast at that distance is challenging!

I went back and re-read the OP to find the 5 yards listing for 3x5s :D Holy cow, harder I guess! I will try that version soon. I've seen some vids of Frank Proctor practicing and he spreads 3x5s out across a silouette and just dumps strings of 4-5 in each card moving across, up, down but those look more like 7 yards.

[GrumpyGrizz]

Glock 20 10MM Auto
Safariland 6380

10 Yards 8" Circle

1. 11.65 2C 1M Adj: 23.65
2. 12.36 1C Adj: 13.36
3. 11.77 1C Adj: 12.77

Learning: Keep practicing. Concentrate on technique. It's good to finally establish a base line on this drill.