Feinstein's list of 'evil guns' set to be banned - grandfathered weapons to be NFA

[JRB]

Pretty much a worst-case scenario. Watching the dog & pony show and the dirge of misinformed vomit live on C-span just a little while ago was one of the most upsetting things I've ever watched.

The ignorance carries into the list - and in no small amount:
http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Feinstein-Weapons-Ban-e1359047805173.jpg

Some interesting holes in that list, like Saiga 20's.


WASHINGTON — California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein staged a dramatic press conference Thursday on Capitol Hill with 10 weapons at her side and unveiled legislation instituting a government ban on more than 150 types of firearms, including rifles, pistols and shotguns.

Flanked by other anti-gun liberal lawmakers, including New York Sen. Chuck Schumer and Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin, Feinstein announced the introduction of the “Assault Weapons Ban of 2013.”

The legislation being pushed by Feinstein — who has long history of calling for gun bans — would prohibit the sale, transfer, importation and manufacture of certain firearms.
During the press event at the Dirksen Senate Office Building, the Democrats described these firearms as “dangerous military-style assault weapons.” The bill would also ban high-capacity ammunition feeding devices that can hold more than 10 rounds.

Feinstein said the country’s “weak” gun laws allow massacres like the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting occur.

“Getting this bill signed into law will be an uphill battle, and I recognize that — but it’s a battle worth having,” Feinstein said in literature handed to reporters at the Thursday event.

Source, if you want to click: http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/24/feinstein-calls-for-banning-more-than-150-firearms-during-dramatic-press-conference/


Time to really start blowing up the phones and the inboxes of our representatives.

[JHC]

D.O.A. (my bet anyway)

[jetfire]

I had no idea the Beretta CX4 was an "AR type." Thanks for the education, Senator.

[LOKNLOD]

I had no idea the Beretta CX4 was an "AR type." Thanks for the education, Senator.

So is the Barrett M82A1, apparently.

[JDM]

Isn't the traditional HK operating system (a la HK 91) about as different as one can get from a DI AR?

Idiots.

[tmoore912]

What's in Feinstein's gun bill?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/24/politics/feinstein-bill-details/index.html

[JRB]

What's in Feinstein's gun bill?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/24/politics/feinstein-bill-details/index.html

Looks like they got a little smarter and removed the provision to grandfather 'assault weapons' as NFA.

A shame, because as long as the NFA provision was in there, it'd be a guaranteed DOA.

[John Ralston]

What's in Feinstein's gun bill?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/24/politics/feinstein-bill-details/index.html

Did you see that it bans all G17's...

"Semiautomatic Versions of an Automatic Firearm" AKA the G18

[JRB]

Did you see that it bans all G17's...

"Semiautomatic Versions of an Automatic Firearm" AKA the G18

If that applied to Glocks, it'd apply to Beretta 92's as well, thanks to the 93R's equally rare and limited existence.

Insanity.

[vaglocker]

I still don't understand the anti-crowd's fascination with the "shoulder thing that goes up" (barrel shroud).

[will_1400]

I still don't understand the anti-crowd's fascination with the "shoulder thing that goes up" (barrel shroud).

Well, when you shroud something you're hiding it so obviously a barrel shroud is a device that hides a barrel so people won't know you're pointing your gun at them.

^^^^This is the most memorable answer I got from an anti when I asked them what a barrel shroud is.

[TCinVA]

I still don't understand the anti-crowd's fascination with the "shoulder thing that goes up" (barrel shroud).

It's about the same thing as Jenny McCarthy talking about preservatives used in vaccines. People who don't have any understanding of the technical details of the subject they're claiming expertise in trying to sound clever.

[Tamara]

I had no idea the Beretta CX4 was an "AR type." Thanks for the education, Senator.

You're an editor now, dude. Go back and look at the commas and semicolons.

You're welcome. ;)

[JHC]

Did you see that it bans all G17's...

"Semiautomatic Versions of an Automatic Firearm" AKA the G18

Holy smokes. But not G19s or G21s etc. WTF? :mad:

Well she pretty much swung for the fence. Pretty much. I wonder why they dropped the NFA registration for the grandfathered items? Too much pure volume to even pretend or politics? I would think the former.

[JRB]

Holy smokes. But not G19s or G21s etc. WTF? :mad:

Well she pretty much swung for the fence. Pretty much. I wonder why they dropped the NFA registration for the grandfathered items? Too much pure volume to even pretend or politics? I would think the former.

Typical gun-grabber card game - they demand abject utter completely unsupportable insanity.
Then they dial that back to abject utter insanity to show that they're 'reasonable' and 'willing to cross the aisle' etc. etc. Then when gun rights advocates stonewall it outright, they call those advocates 'unreasonable' and 'unwilling to take meaningful steps to prevent violence' etc etc.

They completely fail to understand that making *ANY* further demand of gun owners is what has us pissed off.

It doesn't matter how small of a slice they want of this cake - they never had any right to the smallest slice of that cake from the beginning, let alone any MORE slices than what they've cut themselves off already.

In a way I kind of wish they'd left the NFA grandfathering in there, just because explaining that to fence-sitters would tip a lot of them toward the pro-gun side of things.

[LOKNLOD]

I wonder why they dropped the NFA registration for the grandfathered items? Too much pure volume to even pretend or politics? I would think the former.

Based on the text from the CNN website, there are several provisions regarding existing grandfathered AWs that would require some sort of registration to work.


The legislation addresses the millions of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines
currently in existence by:
Requiring a background check on all sales or transfers of a grandfathered assault
weapon.
This background check can be run through the FBI or, if a state chooses, initiated
with a state agency, as with the existing background check system.

Prohibiting the sale or transfer of large-capacity ammunition feeding devices lawfully
possessed on the date of enactment of the bill.

Allowing states and localities to use federal Byrne JAG grant funds to conduct a
voluntary buy-back program for grandfathered assault weapons and large-capacity
ammunition feeding devices.

Imposing a safe storage requirement for grandfathered firearms, to keep them away from
prohibited persons.

Requiring that assault weapons and large-capacity ammunition feeding devices
manufactured after the date of the bill's enactment be engraved with the serial number
and date of manufacture of the weapon

How do you even pretend to enforce transfer of grandfathered items, without some sort of registration? It could be an empty gesture and they know it, or a way to tack on more charges when other crimes are committed, or a backdoor way of pushing some registration through. No matter what definitely a way of hanging up law abiding folks while not even phasing those with criminal intents.

[rsa-otc]

So what do we think of the studies quoted in the proposal to justify the legislation?

[tmoore912]

The one comment that is sticking with me from the press conference was that this legislation is meant to dry up the total numbers of Assault Weapons and Magazines over a period of time. Just like the banning of machine guns in 1986.

They will have buy back programs, you will never be able to legally sell a "High Cap Mag"(they will break or eventually wear out from use), they will make it very difficult to buy ammunition just to go shooting.

[LOKNLOD]

The one comment that is sticking with me from the press conference was that this legislation is meant to dry up the total numbers of Assault Weapons and Magazines over a period of time. Just like the banning of machine guns in 1986.

They will have buy back programs, you will never be able to legally sell a "High Cap Mag"(they will break or eventually wear out from use), they will make it very difficult to buy ammunition just to go shooting.

Bingo! Plus, once things get that restricted, their value goes through the roof, and they start getting hoarded. If a mag is locked in the safe and seen again because it is irreplaceable and therefore (perceived to be) very valuable, is it really that much different that being banned outright?

[JHC]

On another board someone looked at this CNN link and asked - do light rails on a pistol that could accept a VFG give it the one military feature? I dunno.

[TGS]

So what do we think of the studies quoted in the proposal to justify the legislation?

Well, let's have a looksie at the updated version of the document she's citing: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/research/aw_final2004.pdf

Hag's legislation, Page 3, "The same study also found that "Assault weapons are disproportionally involved in murders with multiple victims, multiple wounds per victim, and police officers as victims."

Koper 2004, Page 15, "A compilation of 38 sources indicated that AWs accounted for 2% of crime guns on average".....

"Similarly, the most common AWs prohibited by the 1994 federal ban accounted for between 1% and 6% of guns used in crime according to most of several national and local data sources examined for this and our prior study (see Chapter 6 and Roth and Koper, 1997, Chapters 5, 6):

...snip...

"National (guns used in mass murders of 4 or more persons, 1992-1994): 4-13%"

"Even the highest estimates, which correspond to particularly rare events such mass murders and police murders, are no higher than 13%."

Koper 2004, page 16, "Even so, most survey evidence on the actual use of AWs suggests that offenders rarely use AWs in crime."

This study is well over 100 pages and chock full of information. Check out these little tidbits:

Page 97, "Further, a study of handgun attacks in one city found that about 3% of gunfire incidents involved more than 10 shots fired, and those cases accounted for nearly 5% of gunshot victims. However, the evidence on these matters is too limited (both in volume and quality) to make firm projections of the ban’s impact, should it be reauthorized."

Page 100, "Should it be renewed, the ban might reduce gunshot victimizations. This effect is likely to be small at best and possibly too small for reliable measurement."

After skimming through this study, I came to the conclusion that all of the recommendations are to continue studying the effects of the AWB over decades, as the measurable impact over one decade is so small as to be not credible for stating whether or not the AWB had any effect. That, ladies and gentlemen, means the AWB accomplished jack shit.

[G60]

Am I the only person that reads "semiautomatic versions of automatic weapons" as things like MPA-10's, and not "semiautomatic versions of semiautomatic weapons that might have had automatic variants produced at one time or another"?

[jetfire]

You're an editor now, dude. Go back and look at the commas and semicolons.

You're welcome. ;)

Shelley's the editor, I'm just a gun writer/advertising executive/pro shooter/King of the Internet.

But you're right, they did sneak a semi-colon in there on me. Bastards. Would it have been so hard to fucking write "the following guns are also all banned, suck it."

[Chemsoldier]

Am I the only person that reads "semiautomatic versions of automatic weapons" as things like MPA-10's, and not "semiautomatic versions of semiautomatic weapons that might have had automatic variants produced at one time or another"?

This. The Glock 17 was invented first. Then the Glock 18. This means the G17 is not a semi-auto version of an FA weapon. Same with the Beretta 92.

Also, is anyone else confused by the semi-auto and magazine importation ban provision? If sales of new items are illegal after the law takes effect, that means new Semi-auto rifles and standard capacity magazines are illegal to everyone except LE/Mil sales. Why would they limit the importation of items that could only be purchased by Johnny Law anyway?

Flash supressors are removed from the military characteristic list. The Springfield Armory M1A is not on the specific list I have. Would that make the M1A legal? The rifleman's rifle? The darling of the live in Idaho and plan on potting the blue helmets at 500 yard set is actually legal under this? The deuce you say. Sure, force the evil anti-government militia types the SPLC are always wringing their hands about to use more powerful rifles. Good plan.

[WDW]

You know what would be awesome? Is if US gun/ammo manufactures decided they were no longer going to sell ANYTHING to any agency or entity, local, state & federal, that in any way supports this idiocy. I mean, it's their industry at risk here. Shouldn't they play what hand they have?

[Robert Mitchum]

Feinstein

Removed NSFW/unnecessarily profane content -BOM

[LOKNLOD]

This. The Glock 17 was invented first. Then the Glock 18. This means the G17 is not a semi-auto version of an FA weapon. Same with the Beretta 92.


I was thinking the same thing on that case.



Flash supressors are removed from the military characteristic list. The Springfield Armory M1A is not on the specific list I have. Would that make the M1A legal? The rifleman's rifle? The darling of the live in Idaho and plan on potting the blue helmets at 500 yard set is actually legal under this? The deuce you say. Sure, force the evil anti-government militia types the SPLC are always wringing their hands about to use more powerful rifles. Good plan.

Would the M1A be a semiautomatic version of a select fire weapon, the M14?

[JHC]

Feinstein

Removed NSFW/unnecessarily profane content -BOM

Yeah THAT's my boy!!! ;)

[rsa-otc]

I was thinking the same thing on that case.

Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but why do I think this distinction will be lost on the anti's?



Would the M1A be a semiautomatic version of a select fire weapon, the M14?

I think in their minds yes.

[MDS]

Feinstein

Removed NSFW/unnecessarily profane content -BOM

BOM, you left the most profane part...

[JDM]

BOM, you left the most profane part...

Hahaha. Well done.

[John Ralston]

Am I the only person that reads "semiautomatic versions of automatic weapons" as things like MPA-10's, and not "semiautomatic versions of semiautomatic weapons that might have had automatic variants produced at one time or another"?

Yes...with a couple exceptions above. If you think for one second the Dems haven't intended this to be a vague, sweeping Bill that casts a large umbrella of restrictions over all semi auto guns, you are dreaming.

[secondstoryguy]

Anyone know when this bill will be voted on? I've been looking around on the net and have found nothing of substance.

[JHC]

Anyone know when will this bill be voted on? I've been looking around on the net and have found nothing of substance.

Story I heard reported is Reid may bring it up but leave it WIDE open for amendments to carve it up. He doesn't want to have to vote on it in raw form; or take the POTUS/Leftwing heat for burying it.

[Chemsoldier]

Would the M1A be a semiautomatic version of a select fire weapon, the M14?
True. On the other hand so are most of the weapons on the explicitly banned list but they feel it necessary to list them. It would have been super easy to ad "M14/M1A and all derivations and variants." to the list. We will see.

[JRas]

still trying to figure out how this collapsible buttstock makes my rifle concealable :rolleyes:

[Tamara]

But you're right, they did sneak a semi-colon in there on me. Bastards. Would it have been so hard to fucking write "the following guns are also all banned, suck it."

Literally LOL! :D

[Drang]

The bill is now listed on Thomas as S-150, no text, or even a summary, listed.
This is what GovTrack says: A bill to regulate assault weapons, to ensure that the right to keep and bear arms is not unlimited, and for other purposes. (S. 150) - GovTrack.us (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s150)
GovTrack gives it a 10% chance of passing out of committee, and only 1% chance of being enacted.
Feinsteins "Assault Weapon" Bill (http://thecluemeter.blogspot.com/2013/01/feinsteins-assault-weapon-bill.html)
Also
Gun bills in the US Senate (http://thecluemeter.blogspot.com/2013/01/gun-bills-in-us-senate.html)
and
Gun Bills in the House of Representatives of the United States (http://thecluemeter.blogspot.com/2013/01/gun-bills-in-house-of-representatives.html)

[tmoore912]

This is not the filed Bill as far as I know, but it is probably close. A Draft.

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve/?File_id=9a9270d5-ce4d-49fb-9b2f-69e69f517fb4

122 pages, mostly of the excluded firearms.

[Drang]

Thank you.

[rudy99]

I still don't understand the anti-crowd's fascination with the "shoulder thing that goes up" (barrel shroud).

We you'd better defend our rights to one. As they say...

First they came for the shoulder thing that went up,
and I didn't speak out because I didn't have a shoulder thing that went up.

Interesting that the AR-15 type rifles specifically mentioned are all bottom of the barrel manufacturers (e.g. DoubleStar, Oly, etc). I wonder if it is a status symbol to own one of these on ARFCOM...

[Shellback]

She's a senseless twit and proves it with this tripe. At 1:30 paraphrasing - "Assault weapons have but one purpose... to hold at the hip and spray fire..." She's seen way too many Rambo movies. So much fear mongering, lies and BS I don't even know where to begin.


http://youtu.be/KGnad82pdsY

Hunters and sportsmen?!?! The 2nd Amendment isn't about smoking Bambi you dumb (@^+!!!

"The purpose is to dry up the supply of these weapons over time..." Anyone supporting this unconstitutional garbage has forsaken their oath and should be removed from their position posthaste.

[Tamara]

At 1:30 paraphrasing - "Assault weapons have but one purpose... to hold at the hip and spray fire..."

Better get 'em away from the cops and soldiers, then, due to the risk of collateral damage. Besides, VP Biden says that a double-barrel shotgun works better anyway.

[JM Campbell]

Better get 'em away from the cops and soldiers, then, due to the risk of collateral damage. Besides, VP Biden says that a double-barrel shotgun works better anyway.

Biden smokes crack....should we?

Do they really think we are all lemmings?

[Tamara]

Biden smokes crack....should we?

Do they really think we are all lemmings?

What makes you think you know more about this stuff than the Vice President of the United States? He's the Vice President of the United States! And he has white hair!

[JM Campbell]

What makes you think you know more about this stuff than the Vice President of the United States? He's the Vice President of the United States! And he has white hair!

Common sense....oh and I read the Constitution from time to time :cool:

[NETim]

See, this is yet another reason I'm upset Team Obama got re-elected. Uncle Joe's time is all tied up with fighting the evils of Capitalism and the excessively archaic Constitution. He could be out in the field, toiling tirelessly to pass on his immense tactical knowledge. He says they don't even have time to prosecute gun buyers who lie on form 4473, that's how busy the man is!!

I've dropped all this money on AR's, Pmags and Aimpoints, only to find out they're inferior as tools for defense. :mad:

[Tamara]

Common sense....oh and I read the Constitution from time to time :cool:

Phhhtt! That old thing? It's just a tool written by rich old white men to keep rich old white men in power.

Look at all the more modern constitutions; they all include important rights, like the right to housing, food, a job, and health care, and don't include atavistic throwbacks about the right to hunt deer with muskets.

[JM Campbell]

Phhhtt! That old thing? It's just a tool written by rich old white men to keep rich old white men in power.

Look at all the more modern constitutions; they all include important rights, like the right to housing, food, a job, and health care, and don't include atavistic throwbacks about the right to hunt deer with muskets.

Interweb high five!

I dig your style Tam.


No time for 4473 falsifying is a huge fail....how in the heck will you police your new proposed law if you can't police the existing?

Oh wait that's "common sense"....isn't that their coined phrase?


PHRASING!!!!!!

[Tamara]

No time for 4473 falsifying is a huge fail....how in the heck will you police your new proposed law if you can't police the existing?

It's a tacit admission that the background check is just a feelgood measure that does nothing to actually stop criminals from acquiring guns (they'll just get them illicitly) and therefore serves no real purpose except to make people feel "safer" and annoy and inconvenience legitimate good citizens.

[NETim]

I almost forgot, Uncle Joe the Tactical Master, DOES have time to proclaim "gun control as just one aspect in a move to curb the “coarsity” of American culture."

There ya have it. A profound observer of the human condition AND a master tactician. And I bet he'd make an IPSC GM in no time flat once he got on the circuit.

[NickA]

I almost forgot, Uncle Joe the Tactical Master, DOES have time to proclaim "gun control as just one aspect in a move to curb the “coarsity” of American culture."


That's pretty rich from a guy who practically molested the mothers and wives of every Congress member at the recent swearing in ceremony. That was some creepy stuff.

[JRas]

She's a senseless twit and proves it with this tripe. At 1:30 paraphrasing - "Assault weapons have but one purpose... to hold at the hip and spray fire..." She's seen way too many Rambo movies. So much fear mongering, lies and BS I don't even know where to begin.


http://youtu.be/KGnad82pdsY

Hunters and sportsmen?!?! The 2nd Amendment isn't about smoking Bambi you dumb (@^+!!!

"The purpose is to dry up the supply of these weapons over time..." Anyone supporting this unconstitutional garbage has forsaken their oath and should be removed from their position posthaste.

There lack of knowledge is sickening.. and the sad thing is the general public is hearing this crap and believing it.

Did you hear the NYPD officer (same meeting) claiming there would be no meat left if you used these for hunting purposes? Last I checked the majority of hunters use over a .223/5.56mm

Joe Biden claiming a double barreled shotgun would be easier and better than an "assault weapon" in terms of a SHTF sitation (earthquake was used).

[NETim]

That's pretty rich from a guy who practically molested the mothers and wives of every Congress member at the recent swearing in ceremony. That was some creepy stuff.

I forget, wasn't one of the pigs in Orwell's "Animal Farm" named "Uncle Joe?" ;)

[Tamara]

I almost forgot, Uncle Joe the Tactical Master, DOES have time to proclaim "gun control as just one aspect in a move to curb the “coarsity” of American culture."

Part and parcel of modern liberalism is to have a sort of fawning, leg-humping infatuation with western Europe. Not only do they have socialised medicine and workers pension programs to die for, and paternity leave and, and, and well, everything, but on top of it, they're just so... European! And if you can't be arsed to learn a foreign language so that you can move to someplace civilised like Amsterdam or Copenhagen, then you can try to bring the mountain to Mohammed, as it were.

Believe me, I live among them. If they were riding their city bike (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Bike) on the bridge over the canal in Broad Ripple and looked down and saw a real gondolier among the ducks, they'd decorate their cupcakes right there.

[NETim]

There lack of knowledge is sickening.. and the sad thing is the general public is hearing this crap and believing it.

Did you hear the NYPD officer (same meeting) claiming there would be no meat left if you used these for hunting purposes? Last I checked the majority of hunters use over a .223/5.56mm

Joe Biden claiming a double barreled shotgun would be easier and better than an "assault weapon" in terms of a SHTF sitation (earthquake was used).

Then he'd certainly crap his drawers if he saw what the 88 year old .270 Winchester can do with 110 Hornady HP's clocking a sedate 3200 fps.... from a long, long ways away. :cool:

[secondstoryguy]

Part and parcel of modern liberalism is to have a sort of fawning, leg-humping infatuation with western Europe. Not only do they have socialised medicine and workers pension programs to die for and paternity leave and, and, and everything, but on top of it, they're just so... European! And if you can't be arsed to learn a foreign language so that you can move to someplace civilised like Amsterdam or Copenhagen, then you can try to bring the mountain to Mohammed, as it were.

Believe me, I live among them. If they were riding their city bike (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Bike) on the bridge over the canal in Broad Ripple and looked down and saw a real gondolier among the ducks, they'd decorate their cupcakes right there.

Well said Tam. I see and hear the rhetoric all the time due to liberal relatives that live part-time in Europe. Also, it's all over the place here in Austin,TX (Paris/Moscow on the Colorado). Regarding bikes, the tight-jean-wearing-doll-eyed-euro-hipster's crowd around Austin love to piddle down busy streets on their big antique bikes. The result is an increasing number of curbside death-memorials around town commemorating their stupidity.

[NETim]

Part and parcel of modern liberalism is to have a sort of fawning, leg-humping infatuation with western Europe. Not only do they have socialised medicine and workers pension programs to die for, and paternity leave and, and, and well, everything, but on top of it, they're just so... European! And if you can't be arsed to learn a foreign language so that you can move to someplace civilised like Amsterdam or Copenhagen, then you can try to bring the mountain to Mohammed, as it were.

Believe me, I live among them. If they were riding their city bike (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Bike) on the bridge over the canal in Broad Ripple and looked down and saw a real gondolier among the ducks, they'd decorate their cupcakes right there.

I note the "s's". :)


“Socialism provides safety in numbers. And that’s OK, if you don’t mind trading your name—your identity and individualism—for a number. 
” ― Jarod Kintz, 99 Cents For Some Nonsense

[Tamara]

I note the "s's". :)

I'm glad my attention to detail wasn't for naught. ;)

[SeriousStudent]

Then he'd certainly crap his drawers if he saw what the 88 year old .270 Winchester can do with 110 Hornady HP's clocking a sedate 3200 fps.... from a long, long ways away. :cool:

Ssssh..... don't tempt him. That's probably next on his list.

Note to self: Find a nice old Winchester Model 70 in .270, and Google "Colorado antelope tags".