So would you pay for an "Enthusiast" model gun

[part-time shooter]

After reading through the QC thread and seeing the drop in production QC levels since the turn of the century a thought occured to me.

In the PC market the same market pressures are in play and the lowest price usually sells the most units. However Intel noticed that there is a subset of it's customers that will pay for "unlocked" versions of their highest performance CPU's, they are called Extreme editions or Black editions from AMD. They are much more expensive than the normal boxed CPUs found in 99.99% of desktop and laptop computers.

Would this business model work for factory guns? it obviously works for 1911's already but not on a large scale and in some cases, Kimber etc, points out the exact same issues as with other larger makers. In Kimbers case it looks to be pure profit chasing as they didn't lower their prices just their standards to make more money per unit sold. Bean counter decision making has rotted many great companies from the inside out. Looks like the firearms industry is no exception.

But my question is "Would you pay $650-$700 for a "carry grade" Glock 17/19 or M&P9"? $900? from the factory with the only difference being in the QC process and perhaps the quality of internal parts that would be needed to pass a more stringent QC inspection and evaluation. Nothing Else, no whiz bang finish or match grade anything, just the standard gun built to higher standards.

[JDM]

No. If they are selling it, it should work. It should work for the guy that shoots 500 rounds a year, and it should work for guys that shoot 50,000 in 10 months.

And to a point, the firearms industry as a whole is structured like this already.

Hk>Taurus right?

[John Ralston]

And to a point, the firearms industry as a whole is structured like this already.

Hk>Taurus right?

Good point, and if I am going to pay a bunch more for a gun, I would rather just send a standard model off to get the features that I want on it. You are never going to get everything you want on a factory gun, so you are still going to dump money in it after the initial purchase. You would spend about the same in the end, but get the sights/trigger/grip work that you want.

[JHC]

I guess I might if the situation were that bad. But I've got to feel it vs read it. And in the last 12 months, two new Gen 3's and four new Gen 4's have only delivered Glock 9mm performance of legend. Shooting pals have added about that many as well with only good results.

The M&P I only owned and shot a few months (2400 rds) but it was very well put together too.

So I'm sticking with "coach" for the time being.

[Pistol Shooter]

No.

My HK's are already "Enthusiast's" handguns. :D

[Mitchell, Esq.]

If I thought a handgun was that shitty that I couldn't go with the off the shelf gun, I wouldn't buy it, and chose something else.

[ToddG]

An idea like this was discussed briefly at SIG while I worked there. The suggestion was that we offer an "extra accuracy" barrel (which would have been equivalent to the standard barrels of the time) and a "normal accuracy" barrel (which would have been made to looser tolerances and receive less QC). Luckily, it got shot down.

Many companies use different QC procedures for their LE versus non-LE products.

[YVK]

Yes, I would pay for higher QC standards - not extra feature set, but QC standards.

[jslaker]

The suggestion was that we offer an "extra accuracy" barrel (which would have been equivalent to the standard barrels of the time) and a "normal accuracy" barrel (which would have been made to looser tolerances and receive less QC).

This actually sounds more than a little like what happened with the evolution of the XD to the XD-M.

[JV_]

"Carry Grade" & "Enthusiast" models sound like an acknowledgment that their regular ones suck.

[Chuck Haggard]

I dunno, lots of historical precedent in the service, I have shot "rack grade" and "match grade" guns for years.

I would, if the product and the conditions were right for what I was looking for.

There is a bit of this going on, theoretically, with S&W and the Performance Center.

If you could call up S&W (like they did way back in the day with guns like the registered magnums) and order what you wanted (M&P long slide with match barrel, Apex sear, CT grips, and Hack sights.... and the senior gunsmith QC check and test fire....) then it would be worth it IMHO

[JV_]

You'd need to price it so that it's not the same price as if someone built the same gun with their aftermarket accessories.

I'd rather have a Glock with a fitted BarSto than a hand picked factory barrel, and it seems unlikely that their 'top shelf' guns would have other brands of parts in them, excluding sights.

Now that I think about this more, if the need to get hand picked guns is going to rise, I may as well entertain the 1911 - again.

[YVK]

If you could call up S&W (like they did way back in the day with guns like the registered magnums) and order what you wanted (M&P long slide with match barrel, Apex sear, CT grips, and Hack sights.... and the senior gunsmith QC check and test fire....) then it would be worth it IMHO

To me, if you could call S&W and make sure that somebody examines my pistol, checks that vertical play between slide and frame is minimal etc. and guarantees that I won't get a sear bounce, that would be worth it.




Now that I think about this more, if the need to get hand picked guns is going to rise, I may as well entertain the 1911 - again.

Several years ago SWAT Mag reported a T&E Ed Brown come in with a broken disconnector; I even kept an article somewhere. How that thing passed test fire is beyond me.

Some pistols come in with one fired cartridge; I want mine to come with 200 of those, so to speak.

[SecondsCount]

I like to spend the money on a good solid product. It does not always have to be "the best" from a fit and finish standpoint but it had better perform.

The quality control process starts at the beginning, when the steel is being forged or the plastic is extruded, and continues on all the way through machining, molding, and assembly.

This is one of the reasons that the Japanese have always done well. If they find a problem at one of the check points along the way, the part(s) are rejected.

I had a customer years ago that made the little colored plastic ATO fuses for cars. They would send them over to Japan in bulk bags. If the Japanese inspector opened the bag and saw something as small as one of the fuses being a different shade than the rest, the entire lot would be rejected and sent back.

Another customer made dental supplies and shipped to Japan. One of the items was similar to a bandage and would come in 100 count boxes. If an inspector opened the box and found more than 100 the box was rejected even though it would be considered a "bonus" to a US consumer.

The biggest issue is the consumer in this country. Most don't care and will shop at a store for the cheapest item available. There those that say that HK or even S&W and Glock are overpriced when compared to a Taurus, Hi-Point, or Philippine made 1911. We are starting to see it in the AR world where the lower end manufacturers are having to step up and improve their product or lower the price because consumers are becoming more educated.

For me, I think it is smart to separate yourself from others by making a good consistent product and charge a little more for it.