Questions re the FN Five seveN and the Steyr range of pistols.

[Panoply]

Hello Y'all,

I hope you all enjoyed your holidays half as much as I did! I am curious to know why the people here who wrote to me dislike the FN Five seveN so much. Is it purely aesthetic? I agree, it's fugly. Is that the only beef? Appearance and the materials used (plastics)? Is it because the round overpenetrates? Just what is it about it that makes so many hate it? As for the Steyr pistols, what do y'all know about them? What is that (a safety) above the trigger well on the right side. Don't care for that, or the disfiguring 'key lock safety' that s so prominantely on the weapon. Outside of that, it's a sexy auto and I'd like to know more about it. I've yet to even handle one, whatever info y'all have is appreciated.
Let me add that I'd like to know y'alls opinions and insights into the CZ P-07 Duty. Thnx!

:o I've still yet to decide on a replacement carry weapon. If y'all remember I carry a S&W 642 and was looking into autos. I'm now leaning simply to another revolver with a longer barrell! It's that or the S&W Shield or the 3.8" 9mm Springfield XDm. Or maybe keep what I've got and invest in a FiveseveN. Thought on this are welcome, too.


Carnival season is right around the corner and I formally invite all of you to come down here and enjoy Mardi Gras, cher!

Panoply

[guymontag]

I hope you all enjoyed your holidays half as much as I did! I am curious to know why the people here who wrote to me dislike the FN Five seveN so much. Is it because the round overpenetrates?

I'd wager the dislike you read is due to the cost of the handgun, the cost of the round, the round's performance, and the lack of aftermarket support.


As for the Steyr pistols, what do y'all know about them? What is that (a safety) above the trigger well on the right side. Don't care for that, or the disfiguring 'key lock safety' that s so prominantely on the weapon. Outside of that, it's a sexy auto and I'd like to know more about it. I've yet to even handle one, whatever info y'all have is appreciated.

Information abounds here on the Steyr (search function); member CK1 provides a great analysis on them in one of the threads. I've had interest in the Steyr L9-A1, however with persistent reports of FTExtract/Eject and earlier inconsistent triggers, I'd rather risk buying a Glock.

[G60]

Aesthetics are probably the last thing most of the folks here are concerned about.

There is a lengthy thread on the 5-7 here: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3266-Speaking-of-five-seven

[john556]

I can assure that the reasons for people here not liking the Five Seven have nothing to do with it being ugly or made of plastic. Many people here, may JMB have mercy upon their souls, carry ugly plastic pistols. The main complaint about the FS is that it's a solution looking for a problem, in most situations. It's also a full size auto with inferior ballistics compared to most modern service calibers. Couple that with the expensive, hard to find ammo; close to zero aftermarket support and you have yourself a very niche pistol.

[TGS]

After shooting the FN Five Seven, I didn't like the safety. It's position is just dandy for plinking, for it's definitely not a good position (in my opinion) nor a reliable movement for your finger to make. Compare this to the 1911 or HK45, where your thumb will pretty much do its own job with little tactile effort needed. The Five Seven safety requires too much tactile dexterity for my liking.

In addition, I found the controls to be super cheap feeling. The little gray plastic controls felt like the same kind of cheap plastic used in kids toys at Walmart.

The round it fires can have some potential for self-defense, but we're talking a very specific custom load that is very, very expensive with limited availability. The non-custom commercial rounds do not exhibit acceptable terminal wounding performance as cited by DocGKR. You have to keep in mind the context this pistol and round were developed for.....it was not developed for rapid incapacitation of a threat. It was designed in response to a NATO request for pistols/PDW's that can at least puncture CRISAT body armor worn by the Reds as they swept through Europe. In that context 9mm does not compare, because 9mm AP rounds like the M39/b have a AP capability only out for 40-50 meters or so, whereas the 5.7 was a couple hundred. All it needed to do was give support troops armed with pistols and SMGs to have a chance of puncturing body armor, which their 9mm would likely not have. It was not purposed to rapidly incapacitate a threat, so keep that in mind when considering the 5.7 for that purpose.

The upside to the gun is that recoil is superbly low. Shoot a Five Seven for 100 rounds, then shoot a 9mm.....the 9mm will feel like a cannon in comparison. The gun is also very "shootable," meaning that I found it very easy to shoot accurately and quickly without requiring too much effort on my end....it's going to require some serious "fail" on the shooters end to mash the trigger and throw shots, in my opinion.

Cool gun, but for me to consider it the controls would 1) have to be made of some more confidence inspiring material, 2) Safety position changed to a more traditional type, and 3) More effective loads at a reasonable price from multiple reliable manufacturers, not from a single small shop with a sketchy ethics history and history of being raided (whether legitimate raids or not, I don't want my only source of defense ammo to be out of business leaving me stranded).

[YVK]

You'd need that safety enlarged by factor of three for positive and rapid disengagement under any type of hurry. Of course, if it is made any bigger, building a holster for this gun would become interesting. The mags felt like a block, hated reloading that thing.
TGS is right on all counts.

[Panoply]

Thank you all for your input, especially TGS. I found the position of the safety to be fairly handy, but it is true that it takes a conscious thought to disengage in a stressful situation - you'd naturally be trying to use your thumb. Maybe after running a couple k's of ammo through it you'd be OK? The controls DO seem...insubstantial, but appearances can be deceiving. The overpenetration, even w/ a polymer tip, are a negative factor. As is the price of ammunition. Availability I'm not too worried about as I'd buy in bulk. I love the low recoil and delayed blowback (the idea of it anyway having only handled it).
I just don't know. I suppose I'm leaning away from it, but it does have it's appeals.
Aesthetics DO play a part in deciding which gun to buy. Some more than others (me quite a bit), but everyone takes that into consideration consciously or unconsciously. I can't be persuaded otherwise. I also believe peer evaluation plays a part (me much less than others) in people's choices. As much of both of these as is practical. The thing to do is recognize this. Yes, there will be exceptions to this rule.
As for the Steyrs, I'm not interested any longer after reading more about them.

Thanks, all, for the help!

[jkm]

I attended a ammo testing day awhile back. I was unfamiliar with the Five Seven, but had heard very good things about it.
From what I observed, the Five Seven would probably make a good round for shooting woodchucks or possibly other small game. In fairness to the round, I only saw the results of it being fired from a handgun. I did not see it fired from a carbine. If I had, perhaps I'd have a better opinion of the round. .....jkm

[TGS]

I did not see it fired from a carbine. If I had, perhaps I'd have a better opinion of the round. .....jkm

I wouldn't count on it:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4338-Small-Caliber-PDW-s-FN-5-7-mm-HK-4-6-mm

[EMC]

Go over to fnforum and check out the kaboom pictures in the archives. Imagine the only thing between a high pressure rifle round and your hands is a blowback design and some plastic. That said, as long as you don't reload hopefully statistics would be in your favor.

[Moshe Dayan]

I have a Steyr M9A1, a slightly older one from before they changes the trigger a bit. Have has few issues with the pistol, with them being limited to the rim on some MFS ammunition ripping off resulting in failures to extract, and a round of Tula that was of excess pressure blowing out the primer and becoming lodged in the pistol. Additionally, the primer-cover was forced through the firing pin hole and intermittently would block the striker. More on the here: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=89841

Overall it has been a very good handgun with no malfunctions I can blame on the gun itself in the thousand rounds or so I have put through it. The trigger is very good, the ergonomics are better than those of a Glock, and the overall design is better though out. The internal components of the frame are all built into a chassis and can all be removed at once for cleaning, leaving only the magazine release still attached to the frame itself. The sights are interesting, easy to pick up and fast, but somewhat difficult to be precise with. I wouldn't pick them on purpose but they have not been bothersome enough to make me want to change them, plus they are somewhat characteristic to the handgun. If you like the M9A1 I would say give it a go.

[1986s4]

I don't know much about the 5.7, only handled one at a shop. I have had two Steyr M series. A M9 and M40. Both were lemons and caused me to forever reject Steyr handguns. The newer M series maybe better but not for me.

[ST911]

Never cared much for the 5.7 pistol, but this 5.7 is a hoot...

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/IMG_4633a.jpg

[Zhurdan]

Yes... yes they are fun. Unfortunately, mine doesn't have that extra little "click" but I've shot one that does (rented) and it is pert neer impressive.


http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r127/Zhurdan/Gun%20stuff/P90-01.jpg

[Tamara]

The main thing I don't like about the P90/PS90 is the ejection pattern. It flings brass with enough velocity to leave bruises in a tender spot if I'm not holding it just right. Guys might not have the same problem, especially if they're wearing vests.

[Kyle Reese]

I owned a Steyr M9 about 9 years ago. It had many failures to extract with FMJ/JHP, and was least reliable with M882 type ammunition. I sold it at a considerable loss (with full disclosure).

Perhaps the newer models are more reliable?

[JonInWA]

I had one of the "First Generation" Steyr M40 pistols soon after they came out; initially I considered it a bit of an upgrade to a Glock G23. Mine was subject to the trigger upgrade that Steyr provided at no cost. It was an interesting gun conceptually, but flawed in execution-it was guaranteed to experience at least 1 ejection/extraction issue per 100 rounds. Subsequent models reportedly resolved these, but my interest (and patience) had waned by that point. I traded mine for another Glock as I recall, with absolutely zero regrets or seller's remorse. Designer Willi Bubits seems to be fraught career-wise with interesting ideas/designs and flawed executions...I'll let others be the beta-testers for his latest incarnation, the Caracel, given his track record...

Best, Jon

[Drang]

The main thing I don't like about the P90/PS90 is the ejection pattern. It flings brass with enough velocity to leave bruises in a tender spot if I'm not holding it just right. Guys might not have the same problem, especially if they're wearing vests.

Never seemed to bother Amanda Tapping.:cool:

[JonInWA]

Two of my bigger disappointments in pistols in the 1990s were the Steyr M40 and the Beretta Cougar 8357 in .357 SIG-both platforms had great conceptual promise, and significantly flawed executions...

Best, Jon