PDA

View Full Version : Caliber step down



EVP
04-08-2011, 05:03 PM
Hello

I was reading a thread in the marksmanship section about the shooting characteristics between 45acp and 9mm. This was not a discussion on caliber effectiveness. The topic was about if you could shoot a 45 well do you use it or stick with 9mm. This is were my question comes in and want to get yalls feedback. I currently have a Hk45c lem and it has been a great gun. It is accurate, reliable, and has minimal recoil for a 45. There are a couple of reasons why I have thought about moving to a 9mm. The first is ammo availability. Since I moved to a new state, it has been increasingly hard to find 45 ammo locally. Just about every Wally world around here has 9 on the shelves. Also when I was reading the various posts, I saw people that obviously had a higher skill set then I do currently sticking to 9mm. That got me thinking that stepping down to 9mm would help me develop skills faster and more efficiently. I would like to get a good platform such as a g19 or m&p, stick with it and be done with changing guns for training and ccw.

What is yalls take on this? Thanks for the advice.

jslaker
04-08-2011, 05:17 PM
9x19mm ammunition is just over half the price of .45 ACP. Shooting twice as much will make you a better shooter faster.

That's the primary reason I'm wanting to move from .40 S&W to 9x19, personally.

GJM
04-08-2011, 07:08 PM
If you like your HK 45C, why not get a P30 LEM in 9mm, train with the P30, and carry the HK 45C or P30 9mm as you see fit. The manual of arms is the same, and they even fit the same holsters.

I start a course at the Rogers School Sunday, and have a 45C with me for carry and two P30's in 9 for the course.

YVK
04-08-2011, 07:09 PM
I kind of sound like a broken record, but I keep saying that shooting different calibers challenges you in different ways. Every time I step up from 9 to 45, I find myself challenged with recoil management and sight tracking and I find it beneficial to keep shooting 45. Having said that, my personal biggest issues with shooting is anticipation, and 9 mm is plenty enough to work on that - at twice the live practice volume. With current ammo prices, I can't see anybody being able to afford meaningful live fire volume with 45 alone, unless you reload, get ammo through employment or are sponsored. I am about 3:1 9 to 45 ammo expenditures per year and I find it sufficient. So, if I were in your case, I'd keep 45c and get P2000 or p30 in lem for similarity purposes.

Prdator
04-08-2011, 07:26 PM
I think your right on track!! I just sold all my .45's so I could devote more time and $$ to my .40's and 9's. i can buy 4000 115gr 9mm's for the same $ as 2000 230gr .45's.

I have to believe that training with the ''extra'' 2000 rounds will improve my shooting, and for me I care more about improving than owning ''extra'' guns.

turbolag23
04-08-2011, 09:36 PM
9x19mm ammunition is just over half the price of .45 ACP. Shooting twice as much will make you a better shooter faster.

That's the primary reason I'm wanting to move from .40 S&W to 9x19, personally.

i've been considering the same lately. i carry 40sw and shoot it alright but its a lot of effort to shoot well in comparison to the 9mm.

jslaker
04-09-2011, 08:24 AM
i've been considering the same lately. i carry 40sw and shoot it alright but its a lot of effort to shoot well in comparison to the 9mm.

Yup. It's costs me $32/100 rounds after sales tax to shoot .40 S&W, and I can acquire 9mm for around $22-23/100 locally. Given that I'd like to substantially up my round count, that adds up quick.

Kyle Reese
04-09-2011, 10:54 AM
I too shoot 9x19 about 98% of the time due to ammunition cost, but have an HK 45 and M&P 45 in the safe.

JV_
04-09-2011, 12:13 PM
I prefer to practice more, so I shoot 9mm almost exclusively.

John Ralston
04-09-2011, 08:23 PM
9mm for ammo cost - I have 45's and shoot them well, but I prefer to shoot more. Even with reloading the 9mm makes more sense (and right now I don't have time for reloading).

I plan to shoot at least 4000 rounds this year (not enough - I know), but right now, that's the plan. It would cost almost double to shoot 45.

jar
04-09-2011, 08:44 PM
I sold my 45 and shoot 9mm almost exclusively. I can load 9mm for about $11/100.

will_1400
04-10-2011, 12:38 PM
Another 9mm guy here for many of the same reasons that have been already mentioned: lower cost, lower recoil, etc.

P30shtr
04-10-2011, 11:24 PM
If you like the .45acp and can afford to practice with it
(couple hundred rounds a week or two), then I say, stick with it. For me it comes down to $$$. Hence the P30. Not so much a question of stopping power, bigger holes or all the other "HYPE". Dont get me wrong, I want one. Not trying to start a cal. war. That said I would still probably carry a 9mm due to capacity.

jar said it too, I can reload 50rnds for 5-6 bucks. Cheapest I find 9mm is around $11.50. I dont reload .45 but I'm guessing it would be around twice that.

ffhounddog
05-10-2011, 02:04 PM
I carry a 9mm most of the time except when I go out to the forest. Then its a 40. I just have 2 40's now a P229 and a Glock 23 because I have 9mm's that are the same as those.

Now if I get a HK P2000sk that would be a different story.

NGCSUGrad09
05-11-2011, 08:20 AM
It's very rare for me to shoot a .45 anymore. While I have the ability to reload it, I MIGHT shoot about a 1000 a year for fun. 9mm is so much cheaper along with being easier to shoot. I did the 9 and 45 trick with 1911s for a little while, but then switched back to just Glock 9mms for consistency across everything I do.


Ask the forum meister (TLG) if he'd run another .45 endurance test..

IanS
05-14-2011, 03:28 AM
I sold all my .45's last 18 months. 2 SA Pro's, a Baer TRS, and 2 Glock 21SF's. I'm sticking with my Glock 9mm's, a J frame snub .38 and occasionally a Ruger GP100 .357 (for fun). Going completely to 9mm I think of it as a side step not a step down. I got over the need to have a .45.

First post here at pistol-forum. Hello everyone. Glad to be here!:cool:

LittleLebowski
05-14-2011, 05:41 AM
Not to mention that if you really practice, a 9mm is much easier on your arms. Todd was wearing an elbow brace/wrap while shooting the HK45 for testing.

Savage Hands
05-14-2011, 11:28 AM
I've consolidated to 9mm for over 2 years now, I'll eventually get a .45 down the line but I can barely train or practice as is right now lol

rsa-otc
05-14-2011, 03:46 PM
I really love my 45 and by buying bulk components I got the ammo cost down to 6.50 a box. But if this tendinitis keeps up in my right forearm I probably will step down to 9mm.

CQC.45
05-18-2011, 02:23 PM
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and is only representative of my experience.

I shoot .45 exclusively. This is for a variety of reasons including I want to train with what I carry and the sunk costs I already have in the platform (multiple M&P45s). However, I think once one understands the advantages and disadvantages of each caliber, they can make an informed decision on which is best for them based on their experience level, life style, environment, strengths, weaknesses, etc.

So I generally like to believe I am past the caliber debate, as I believe there is no "best" caliber for all people/situations. Simply put, there is only the best for you.

Personal Example: I chose the .45 for advantages in barrier defeating properties and larger wound cavity. However, I also understand this comes with disadvantages such as decreased capacity and increased recoil. Thus, (tho these skills are important regardless) I give special attention when training to ensure things like reloads and recoil management (i.e. accurate shots w/ reduced split times, etc.) are able to compensate.

Another big disadvantage is cost (as many have already mentioned), I have been meaning to get a reloading system soon...with ammo costs what they are, I think I have been finally pushed over the edge. Obviously no real way to mitigate cost, .45 is simply expensive as compared to other options. I still force my self to spend the money so I train/practice often.


In the end, i believe caliber (like platform, sights, etc.) is a personal choice. Hopefully this made some sense, again this is only my personal opinion on what works for me. For the record, I would never consider 9mm to be inadequate in any shape or form (well maybe FMJ ;))

DocGKR
05-18-2011, 08:54 PM
Most people are far better off using a quality 9 mm handgun like the ubiquitous G19, since for CCW and most urban LE duty, there are a lot of advantages in carrying a 9mm--easy to shoot one handed, relatively inexpensive to practice with, lots of bullets in the magazine. When I injured my strong hand a few years ago and lost its use for several months, I found out how much more effective I was using a G19 weak handed compared to a 1911...

There are several circumstances where going with .45 ACP makes sense:

-- If you get issued free .45 ACP ammo at work and not other calibers
-- If you already possess a large cache of .45 ACP ammo
-- There is a strong likelihood you will have to shoot through laminated glass or wood intermediate barriers and .40 S&W is not an option
-- You are issued a pistol type that works best in .45 ACP (ex. 1911) or clearly shoot best with such a pistol
-- You live in a state that has asinine laws illogically restricting magazine capacity to 10 rds or less

In any of the above cases, it is hard to beat an M&P45 (esp. the mid-size) or HK45c.

EVP
06-16-2011, 12:08 PM
Just a little update.

When I started this thread I had been contemplating going from a 45 to a 9mm due to a couple of factors. Long story short I sold my Hk45c LEM and got a good deal on a pre 2010 g19. It was even better when I found out that the g19 was an excellent condition barely used made in Austria gun. I put Ameriglo Defoor sights on it and did a short range trip a found out that I just shoot the g19 better then the HK. That is not to say the Hk did not shoot great, because it did. It was a reliable and accurate gun as anyone who shot one can attest to. The g19 grip and the gun in general fits my hand very well and works better for me. Personally I think the gun is great as is and dont see a need for any trigger enhancments or small extras. This weekend I plan on doing some extended shooting with it. I am looking forward to learning and become proficient with this platform.

I also plan on purchasing another gen3 g19 in a few weeks due to the recommendation of some of the seasoned SME's on these forums. This is sound reasoning and it makes obvious sense to have a backup gun. I never had a problem with getting Hk parts but is kinda nice to be able to get practically any part if needed inexpensively. I saw OEM recoil assemblies for under $10. It's pretty cool that I can have a surplus of extra parts without having to invest almost a quarter of what the gun costs.

Thanks