AIWB and Car Accidents

[RoyGBiv]

Any AIWB'rs been involved in a car accident while carrying AIWB?
Any extra damage to your body that you would attribute to AIWB carry?

I ask because the question came to mind following a near miss a few days ago. Some jackwad decided he didn't want to go to the airport after all and instead needed very urgently to be two lanes to the left. :mad:

Any empirical or anecdotal info would be of interest.
Other than a few people asking this question, I haven't found any examples on the interwebs yet.

Thanks.!

[EMC]

I'm interested in this also, I know some will tell you to put the belt behind the gun, but on me that places it too high on the abdomen and seems even more dangerous. I'm starting to think removing everything for car travel is the only way, although inconvenient.

[jon volk]

Good post, in for info.

[secondstoryguy]

Never had a wreck while carrying AIWB but I was in a head on (45mph)with a duty type belt on and while I got banged up I didn't have any injuries related to my seatbelt being a little high on my abdomen. I seriously doubt that it would cause a significant increase in damage, especially in a vehicle that is equipped with an airbag.

[RoyGBiv]

I never considered that not all AIWB is the same regarding seat belt position. For example, my seat belt generally rides across the barrel. If I'm using a low ride holster (summer) the belt might also cross the trigger guard (added AD risk in a crash?). This typically puts the belt across, or just above my hips. I never considered moving the belt higher or behind the gun. Seems that higher would be less safe (organs getting crushed instead of the belt grabbing bones) and moving the belt behind the gun would be all sorts of trouble getting out fast (maybe.. I'll need to check that out more carefully tomorrow).

If you have an example of a crash to share, please include whatever detail you recall regarding where the gun was and where the belt was relative to your gun and your body.

Thanks.!

[JMS]

Got ran off the road on a drive from Fredericksburg VA and Loiusville KY, at about 0130, 23 Dec 12. No airbag deployment, but I landed in the ditch hard enough to need to get the rear axle and drive shaft of my truck replaced.

I carry AIWB immediately right of center (call it 1230), with a Raven ACR in this instance, set to it's lowest configuration without drilling any extra holes in the strut on the leftmost side of the holster. Seat belt is the standard "low across the hips" setup. Settles maybe 2" below my navel. Call it at or on the low side of the trigger guard.

I was a bit tender high on my left hip, but that seems consistent with the fact that I ended up spinning counter-clockwise and ended up on the right (starboard) side of the road, from the left lane. Got thrown against the belt leftward. Bonked my head a little on the left side, but I attribute the cushioning of my Jayne-hat to helping to keep that minor. :p

Nothing of note along my centerline that differed from what I usually encounter when worn for a long, full, active day. But, since I didn't get flung headlong into anything, that doesn't seem surprising.

[DocGKR]

I was hit by an SUV and knocked off my bicycle this fall while carrying a G19 w/RMR AIWB; broke my wrist, but no injuries as a result of the pistol.

[JonInWA]

I was hit by an SUV and knocked off my bicycle this fall while carrying a G19 w/RMR AIWB; broke my wrist, but no injuries as a result of the pistol.

Geez, Gary-between that and your dogwalking-with-the-revolver incident, 2012 was quite the exciting year for you-here's hoping 2013 is different in a good sense.

Best, Jon

[pangloss]

I was involved in a wreck in August, 2011. A woman in a CRV hit me at a right angle and impacted the back, passenger side wheel. She was accelerating out a parking lot, oblivious to a stop sign. She drove through the impact and spun my car almost 180 degrees. No air bags deployed, but my car sustained about $5K of damage. Neither my wife (pregnant at the time) nor myself were injured in any way. I was carrying a Glock 26 at about 12:30 AIWB in a Fricke ArchAngel.

[orionz06]

I suspect body position has a lot to do with minimizing risks. A relative had a rather unfortunate 3 years of recovery from an accident in which he slid forward and busted his gear up enough to create many long term issues. Function checks did not pass for some time. All as a result of a laid back seat. My guess is no one here drives leaning back but with a bunch of metal down there I would be careful and prevent my gun from being struck by the steering wheel.

[SLG]

I have been in one crash as a passenger, no aiwb problems at all. I have rammed many, many cars, on purpose, and also suffered no damage or discomfort whatsoever. I put my belt below the grip of my gun, and across the slide/triggerguard area. Most of these incidents involved speeds below 35 MPH. I suspect that much above that speed, you will have more to worry about then where your pistol is located.

[ekrauos]

aiwb car crash

Sorry for posting on an old thread; however I have some input.

Vehicle: 1991 suburban, captain chairs, normal (correct) seating position, no airbag.
Belt: Volund gear works Atlas
Holster: Dale Fricke Archangel, at 12:30~01:00 ish
Gun: Ruger LCR 357
Me: 5'9", 180 lbs, largeish rib cage and semi short torso.

The lap belt rode over my gun belt, and the sholter strap was just over the butt of the revolver.

Story: snow/ice; eventually resulted in a head on with a solid tree at roughly 15-20 mph.

It seems the butt of the gun pushed up under my rib cage, bruising false ribs #8 and 9. I have not been to the doc yet to see if they are cracked, but they are definitely tender and visibly swollen, two weeks post crash.

I believe the shoulder belt may have helped jam the butt into my rib cage, this may have been prevented by putting the shoulder belt under the butt of the grip; This can be easily done, since I always pull my shirt out from the lap belt anyways.


However; after some playing around in the seat, it seems even pressure from the lap belt could push the grip into/under the rib cage; as hard as the shoulder belt? Who knows, we would need crash test dummy's and crash rigs, with accelerometrs and all the other testing hardware.


Anyways, AIWB is the only place I will carry besides pocket, and I dont like pocket anymore (after discovering AIWB). I am not a fan of moving or removing the gun for driving either. I am just unsure about say a 40mph crash, where you would otherwise be alright; but because of AIWB you have to get surgery on your soft innards and wait for ribs to heal.

what to do...

[john556]

A head-on collision >45~ can result in serious injuries with AIWB. Although most head-on collisions at speed will result in serious injuries, even without a firearm present to increase the damage to the abdominal area.

[ToddG]

A head-on collision >45~ can result in serious injuries with AIWB.

Not arguing the point, simply asking for clarification: How? My lap belt is below my holster (across my actual lap) and the shoulder strap is above the butt of the gun. I very specifically set myself up that way when I belt in, though admittedly it's to make sure I have clear access to the gun rather than out of some concern about collision safety.

[SamuelBLong]

I've never seen anything attached on the waist massively (key point here) increase primary or secondary injury as a result of compression against the lap & shoulder belt. Obviously if you have a hard surface that is compressing into your abdomen, and something for your abdomen and internals to hit in the 3rd stage of the collision, there will be some damage... Will it be worse than if nothing was there? Yes. Much more? Probably not.


If your belt is in the proper position, and the gun isn't being obstructed in the first place, then I wouldn't worry about it. There are far more things to worry about in a 45mph+ crash.

[ekrauos]

I just sat in F-250 and a Fusion, to make sure I have been wearing my seatbelt correctly (as I have never thought of that before). Turns out the lap belt is riding where my legs connect to my torso; right on my hip bones as it should. And the shoulder belt is riding between my neck and shoulder as it should.

I think the main problem is that my pants belt rides on my hip bones as well; there is no way possible to get the lap belt below my holster. My body type will not allow a paints belt to ride higher. I'm guessing a body type allowing higher riding pants belt will allow the lap belt to go below the holster?

The problem is reduced by putting the shoulder belt behind the butt of the gun; however I think the main force that shoved the gun into my rib cage was the lap belt. :(

[joshs]

I just sat in F-250 and a Fusion, to make sure I have been wearing my seatbelt correctly (as I have never thought of that before). Turns out the lap belt is riding where my legs connect to my torso; right on my hip bones as it should. And the shoulder belt is riding between my neck and shoulder as it should.

I think the main problem is that my pants belt rides on my hip bones as well; there is no way possible to get the lap belt below my holster. My body type will not allow a paints belt to ride higher. I'm guessing a body type allowing higher riding pants belt will allow the lap belt to go below the holster?

The problem is reduced by putting the shoulder belt behind the butt of the gun; however I think the main force that shoved the gun into my rib cage was the lap belt. :(

Are you carrying more toward 1:30-2:00 o'clock? I can't see how the shoulder belt could be a problem otherwise. I also can't get the lap belt completely below my holster, either.

[ekrauos]

@joshs

I am carrying at 1:30, and the shoulder belt is just barely over the butt of the gun (like .75 inches). It is easy for me to slip the shoulder belt under the butt with my shirt on; however it would look silly to someone who doesn't know I am carrying.

Also
I did an experiment; I hiked my belt up about two inches, at the hiked up position I can get the lap belt below my holster, then position the shoulder belt behind the grip. If this was the orientation in my crash I'm sure no gun butt would have damaged my ribs. However, when exiting the car my belt instantly dropped, then I had to re-adjust it as well. Adjusting my belt pre and post car ride is not very practical...

It seems that some body types (where the lap belt rides on the holster) will just have to deal with the increased possibility of belt/holster/gun related injury. :(

[Trajan]

I wear my pants at hip level as well. The lap belt covers the grip.

[sys_999]

Interesting question and one to which I have a definitive personal answer (YMMV of course). Last year I captained my car into a fixed object at about 30-45 mph. Vehicle was in bad shape, frame rails forward of engine completely bent, total airbag deployment in dash and seats... while carrying a G19 AIWB at 12:30 in a low-pro EDC Holsters rig (https://www.facebook.com/pages/EDC-holsters/183368308400728). No AD/ND, no loss of retention, no broken ribs, no injuries, no anything. Seat belt rode over the belt clip of the holster, as it always does. I won't say that I would gladly do it again, but the gun and rig was the least of my concerns at the time.