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View Full Version : To strobe or not to strobe?



Shellback
04-04-2011, 06:01 PM
My EDC light is a 4 Sevens Quark 123 Tactical with the strobe feature. When I initially purchased it I played with the strobe feature but ultimately set the light up with the bright setting being my standard setting and the low light being the secondary.

I've been really pleased with the light and it's output thus far. Bright is BRIGHT and the low setting is great for late night BBQ'ing and navigating around a dark house at night. After setting it up this way I hadn't given it much thought until now.

Fast forward a year and I recently received the Streamlight TLR-1S which also has the strobe feature. After promptly nuking my own pupils at close range I decided I needed a more "scientific" test. So I convinced my wife to let me test the light on her orbs last night, the little ones, using the constant on and strobe effect in a darkened room.

After proclaiming that we needed some techno music, a few ecstasy pills and glow sticks she said that the strobe effect was definitely more effective in terms of being "disorienting", gave a more pronounced loss of night vision and also helped in not being able to as easily locate the source. In order to round out our highly sophisticated mode of testing I had her light me up as well and came to the same conclusions.

Although the testing was limited and done under a strictly controlled environment of my own making I am now pitching my tent in the "strobe the bad guy camp". How about you? Have you done any testing? What were your conclusions? Positives, negatives, etc?

All references to music, drugs and glowing single-use translucent plastic tube thingies were fictional and only used to add humor to the story, the rest is true.

ToddG
04-04-2011, 06:20 PM
I'm a fan and have been since the first demo of the original tactical strober (Gladius) at SHOT years back. It's not a lethal weapon by any means, but it has a real effect on many people and it's a beneficial addition.

orionz06
04-04-2011, 06:43 PM
I have never remembered when the opportunity was there, but I am curious how the strobe effects someone who is drunk.

167
04-04-2011, 06:43 PM
Not all strobes are created equal, there are some lights that have pretty slow strobes that are way less effective.

With a light that has a good strobe setting, I think there is some value there.

jslaker
04-04-2011, 06:58 PM
I have never remembered when the opportunity was there, but I am curious how the strobe effects someone who is drunk.

My Highly Scientific Experimentation™ involving blasting wasted friends with an LED strobe indicates that it effects a copious stream of profanity from the test subject. :cool:



Not all strobes are created equal, there are some lights that have pretty slow strobes that are way less effective.

Again, from my Highly Scientific Experimentation™, a strobe rate in the 8-9Hz range appeared to be most irritating.

Odin Bravo One
04-04-2011, 07:05 PM
When Ken had Sure-Fire's Low Light course, he intro'd this technique to a lot of guys, and I think we can probably attribute a lot of the strobing technique(s) to the days when he was pushing the technique without flashlights capable of giving us the option to choose. You had "On" and you had "Off".

With the advent of lights that gave you a strobe setting, we saw a resurgence of these techniques, and lights that have more crazy strobing options than you can hit with a dead cat.

That said..........I personally don't see the "need" for a light that strobes, except for an emergency strobe. I am not against it.......nor will I bother to attempt to argue against using strobe lights or techniques. If it works for you, roll with it. Strobing lights are certainly "A way", and advocated by many shooters who I have the highest respect for their technique and experiences. But if you spend more time fucking with your flashlight than putting rounds into the vitals, you might be better served working with a fixed light.

VolGrad
04-04-2011, 07:08 PM
I will admit I've waffled on this topic in the past. I started thinking it was a great idea, then went to the opinion it was a novelty, now am just plain undecided.

I think it could be effective IF deployed properly ... ie not fumbling with the switch when trying to activate it thus going through all the settings whilst you get shot by the bad guy.

jslaker
04-04-2011, 07:21 PM
But if you spend more time fucking with your flashlight than putting rounds into the vitals, you might be better served working with a fixed light.

Isn't that the point of including a built-in strobe setting, though? It makes it as fire-and-forget as flashing a solid beam normally would be.

Now, I agree with you when it comes to some of the lights I've seen that have completely byzantine interfaces.

Shellback
04-04-2011, 07:23 PM
But if you spend more time fucking with your flashlight than putting rounds into the vitals, you might be better served working with a fixed light.


I think it could be effective IF deployed properly ... ie not fumbling with the switch when trying to activate it thus going through all the settings whilst you get shot by the bad guy.

The only 2 lights I've experimented with so far are the Quark 123 and the TLR-1S. With the Quark you set up the programming so that by pushing the button it's in strobe mode from the get go so there are no further manipulations needed, just like a regular light.

With the TLR-1S it requires that you push the momentary on position and then depress it again within .5 second. This would be slightly more difficult and possibly more problematic if you were relying on the strobe feature. You can turn this feature off completely as well.

Rverdi
04-04-2011, 07:24 PM
The idea of thinking you will "switch to strobe" when needed is completely unrealistic. Todd's setup is to go straight to strobe, so a straight light would require a light manipulation, certainly the thinking mans way to strobe.
That being said while I think the strobe can be dis-orienting, I'm not sure it's enough of an advantage that I want my light set there all the time. When the Gladius was first introduced I was an office pogue so I lent it to some road guys who used it and while they saw some effect, they didn't feel it was any more effective than a constant on bright led in the eyes.
One other thing to consider with a WML set to come on in strobe is how it will affect your shooting. Depending on your surroundings, shooting with a strobe activated can be difficult and is definitely something you should experience way before you need to really experience it.

Shellback
04-04-2011, 07:29 PM
The idea of thinking you will "switch to strobe" when needed is completely unrealistic. Todd's setup is to go straight to strobe, so a straight light would require a light manipulation, certainly the thinking mans way to strobe.

I am in complete agreeance. The Quark is set up exactly the way you're describing.

ToddG
04-04-2011, 07:33 PM
But if you spend more time fucking with your flashlight than putting rounds into the vitals, you might be better served working with a fixed light.

That's precisely why I carry a handheld flashlight that allows me to have it in "strobe" mode as the default, one-press function. If the light needs some specific combination of loving words and tender caresses to get it to strobe, my guess is that my focus might not be adequate when someone is trying to brain me with an electric hockey stick.

VolGrad
04-05-2011, 06:58 AM
The idea of thinking you will "switch to strobe" when needed is completely unrealistic.

That being said while I think the strobe can be dis-orienting, I'm not sure it's enough of an advantage that I want my light set there all the time.

One other thing to consider with a WML set to come on in strobe is how it will affect your shooting. Depending on your surroundings, shooting with a strobe activated can be difficult and is definitely something you should experience way before you need to really experience it.

Well stated Rich. This is what I should have said as it echos my thoughts perfectly.

BTW the only light I have with the strobe feature is my TLR-1s lights. As someone mentioned it requires a double tap to activate the strobe.

orionz06
04-05-2011, 07:06 AM
BTW the only light I have with the strobe feature is my TLR-1s lights. As someone mentioned it requires a double tap to activate the strobe.

Correct. I have been toying with this instead of an X300 on one of my carbines and the strobe function will show up here and there if you are shutting the light off between multiple targets.

irishshooter
04-05-2011, 08:26 AM
The idea of thinking you will "switch to strobe" when needed is completely unrealistic.....That being said while I think the strobe can be dis-orienting.

agreed. i ran an Insight with strobe during a low light/no light course with FOF. it disoriented me as much as it disoriented the threat. not as bad when shooting a static target but it certainly was not what i expected when my target was mobile. very difficult to track a moving target with the strobe IMO/IME. i have since done away with the strobe.

Shellback
04-05-2011, 02:17 PM
Correct. I have been toying with this instead of an X300 on one of my carbines and the strobe function will show up here and there if you are shutting the light off between multiple targets.

To disable the strobe mode tap the momentary paddle switch 9 times and hold it down on the 10th time. After one second the light will turn off to indicate reprogramming was successful. Repeat the procedure to re-enable the strobe mode.

orionz06
04-05-2011, 02:18 PM
To disable the strobe mode tap the momentary paddle switch 9 times and hold it down on the 10th time. After one second the light will turn off to indicate reprogramming was successful. Repeat the procedure to re-enable the strobe mode.

Excellent! I guess those manuals are good for something.

Shellback
04-05-2011, 02:38 PM
Excellent! I guess those manuals are good for something.

Only on rare occasions ;)

Chuck Haggard
04-05-2011, 10:21 PM
Strobing works very well in certain circumstances, but it is basically a part of a larger magic trick, you have to know the whole trick to make it work.

It does a great job of keeping the person you are strobing from knowing that you are sliding in on them.
I have head tipped people who never knew I was close enough to go hands on.

You can, BTW, strobe just fine with a light that doesn't strobe, it's all in the wrist. Ken had us strobing people before anyone ever tried to make a flashlight strobe all by itself.

TCinVA
04-08-2011, 07:06 AM
I suppose I'm something of a Luddite when it comes to flashlights. My operating theory is that I'm reaching for a light in much the same circumstances that I'm reaching for a gun...namely because there's a problem and I need to fix it within a very limited window of opportunity. I tend to be much more interested in how easy the light is to use in conjunction with a handgun rather than how many different tricks it can perform.

In my use I don't see a need for a strobe function...but my life doesn't require me to raid the houses of drug dealers or the lairs of insurgents. If guys who do that sort of thing for a living find it to be useful, more power to them. I just want completely predictable behavior in a light with a prominent pressure switch that I can adjust to the pressure I want it to have. Surefire has started screwing around with their pressure switches lately I guess feeling the heat from the various Chinese manufacturers that flashlight geeks are always going on about.

I do not like this development. I just had the opportunity to handle one of the G2X Pro lights and it wasn't a happy experience. The pressure switch was set too low in the endcap and the body of the light was too slick for use with the Rogers technique. (My preferred hand-held light technique) I had a hard time getting the level of light I wanted out of the thing with that dual mode pressure switch.

I want simple, predictable behavior in a form factor that works well when you're trying to use the light with a handgun. Sadly that doesn't seem to be the wave of the future.

Chuck Haggard
04-08-2011, 08:09 AM
I want simple, predictable behavior in a form factor that works well when you're trying to use the light with a handgun.

I concur.

After the Gladius, which has switching developed by a guy who REALLY knew what he was doing, every other flashlight with a strobe seems to be trying to jump on the "me too" band wagon, with poor results.

Having to tap your switch in the correct Morse code while rubbing your belly at the same time to get the light to switch functions is unsat, just doesn't work in real light.

ToddG
04-08-2011, 08:30 AM
Unlike TC, I have my flashlight in my hand far more often than my pistol. I normally hold it pretty much any time I'm out in low light: walking to the car, walking the dog, etc. As such, the odds that I'll pop someone with the light are a million times higher than with the pistol. And having strobed a number of unsuspecting folks over the years, the short term immediate effect is something I find valuable.

That's precisely why I carry a light that strobes as its default (one touch) function. If I need solid light, then I'm not likely in an immediate threat situation and I can perform whatever manipulation is necessary to put my light in that mode. With the 4Sevens lights, that means twisting the bezel.

Chuck Haggard
04-08-2011, 11:06 AM
I do that quite a bit as well off duty.

I use an E2e with a TNVC LED upgrade, so no real strobe, but you can still get the effect if you know how.

I have noticed that in after dark MUCs a bright light to the face re-sets damn near everyones' OODA loop, and makes them stop thinking stupid thoughts and just go away.

gringop
04-09-2011, 02:05 PM
I EDCed a Fenix TK-11(non-strobe) for years but after a SouthNarc AMIS class, where I got to experience the effects of both types inside and outside, I picked up a 4Sevens Quark Tactical.

I've shot 4 IDPA-ish night matches with it and had no problems hitting in the dark on strobe. It's a lot easier than trying to shake a non-strobing light to get the strobe effect.

I'm sold on the strobe.

Gringop

Frank B
04-09-2011, 02:26 PM
I´m sold to strobe, since attending a 55 hours low light class with Ken Good in 2007. I´ve used the Gladius and Fenix flashlight´s successful in various situations.

BigT
04-10-2011, 04:16 AM
I find the strobe has a very noticable negative effect on my shooting. It is more disorentating having it shone in my face but I don't want to sacrifice my shooting ability for something like that.

Corey
04-19-2011, 06:09 PM
I thought it was a gimmick when I first saw it. Then I did some force on force in low light where I got to be on the receiving end of it. Changed my mind real fast.

Slavex
04-20-2011, 11:09 AM
why Surefire refuses to market a handheld light (and not that abomination brick) with this kind of function is beyond me.


That's precisely why I carry a handheld flashlight that allows me to have it in "strobe" mode as the default, one-press function. If the light needs some specific combination of loving words and tender caresses to get it to strobe, my guess is that my focus might not be adequate when someone is trying to brain me with an electric hockey stick.

ToddG
04-20-2011, 12:59 PM
why Surefire refuses to market a handheld light (and not that abomination brick) with this kind of function is beyond me.

Because for years they had patent issues getting a strobe, and as a result for years their sales and training people constantly argued that strobe was teh ghey. Now that they could do it, their own institutional inertia keeps them from offering it in a meaningful manner.

BTDT. When I was at SIG and the P250 was first on the drawing board, the question arose whether we should make it hammer-fired or striker-fired. All of us (LE division) voted to keep it hammer-fired. Why? Because we'd been telling people for years that hammers were better than strikers. Between drinking our own bathwater and not wanting to look stupid to customers when we reversed ourselves, we blew the chance to produce something that might have actually been desirable in the market.

NickDrak
04-20-2011, 10:51 PM
I also feel strobes have limited use in some limited situations relating to handheld lights.

As Chuck said earlier, I have found that a quick, surprise flash with a quality handheld light to the face of anyone is disorienting enough to make them think twice.

For me, they make threat identification more difficult and they are disorienting to me especially when in confined spaces.

I think a strobe feature on a weapon mounted light is a no-go. Weaponlights are for identifying threats and non-threats....not for disco.

Slavex
04-21-2011, 04:29 AM
The added bonus of being able to go to a Rave and fit in sells the strobe feature for me.

Frank B
04-21-2011, 04:36 AM
The added bonus of being able to go to a Rave and fit in sells the strobe feature for me.

LoL :cool: dont forget your protective suit and sunglasses :D

sorry for the OT, but I couldn´t resist.

Chuck Haggard
04-21-2011, 08:01 AM
Because for years they had patent issues getting a strobe, and as a result for years their sales and training people constantly argued that strobe was teh ghey. Now that they could do it, their own institutional inertia keeps them from offering it in a meaningful manner.


I could answer that in detail, but I'm really not at liberty to do so.

As a general commentary, in many organizations petty personality conflicts and politics pop up. When the people in charge are too stupid, or incompetent, or egotistical, to admit the truth or learn new things, you will have issues.