PDA

View Full Version : teacher options



butler coach
12-17-2012, 10:15 AM
So I work in one of these “gun free zones” however we now have armed security. What do you think I should carry while at work which is a high school grade 11 and 12. Gun and knife are out of the questions. A knife can be carried as long as it’s a “tool” used in every day activities. So I carry my Swiss army knife. In my room I have a lot of improvised weapons so not too concerned here just while I am moving through the halls or cafeteria duty, etc… I have been in some self-defense training and am going to get more soon. I am open to all suggestions just trying to do some brain storming to get a plan for myself.

JM Campbell
12-17-2012, 10:23 AM
Kubaton, sap, asp telescoping baton if legal in your state. They are all easily concealed.

OC spray maybe.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

JHC
12-17-2012, 10:26 AM
Would the civilian model of the Taser be allowed? It's very compact targeted to civilian carry.

JM Campbell
12-17-2012, 10:41 AM
Tactical pen (surefire for example)

I do want to say that implementation of hand held contact weapons opens up yourself to extreme amounts of risk. If you are prepared and with the proper mindset I say get on with your bad ass self, but seek continued training with such tools and highly recommend SouthNarcs ECQC as a starting point and Cecil Birch with his IAJJ (his DVD just released BTW).

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Zhurdan
12-17-2012, 10:51 AM
Tactical pen (surefire for example)

I do want to say that implementation of hand held contact weapons opens up yourself to extreme amounts of risk. If you are prepared and with the proper mindset I say get on with your bad ass self, but seek continued training with such tools and highly recommend SouthNarcs ECQC as a starting point and Cecil Birch with his IAJJ (his DVD just released BTW).

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Not schooled in hand to hand as much as I'd like, but it seems to me that with most of these whack jobs perpetrating this crap, ANY sort of resistance is enough to slow if not stop them. My reason for thinking this? Because they continually attack places where they expect no resistance whatsoever.

Regardless of what I'm armed with, if an opportunity presents itself (distance/surprise), I'm gonna throw a chair or a rock or a monitor or a face full of hot coffee at these jacka$$'s and do everything possible to prevent their cowardly actions from hurting others. I'm sick to my stomach at all this crap as of late. I can't carry at work, which sucks, but I'm definitely considering other alternate methods. Heck, even taking a look around your current location where you're sitting while reading this, there are always things better than just your hands, to use.

Stay safe out there everyone.

JM Campbell
12-17-2012, 10:59 AM
I didn't mean to seem snarky or confrontational by my above post I'm definitely not as eloquent as TCinVA. I commend his standing up and seeking ways to take action if the situation arises.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Zhurdan
12-17-2012, 11:15 AM
I didn't mean to seem snarky or confrontational by my above post I'm definitely not as eloquent as TCinVA. I commend his standing up and seeking ways to take action if the situation arises.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

NO snarkiness detected nor non intended in my post. I just used your post as a spring board is all. I was pointing out that many of us work in places where we can't carry our guns and it sucks. That being said, there's a crap load of stuff in my office that I know I wouldn't want thrown at my face at full force. :cool:

NickA
12-17-2012, 11:17 AM
just trying to do some brain storming to get a plan for myself.

IMO this is probably the most important thing.
Look around at your surroundings wherever you may be during your day, and think about possible exits, cover and concealment, improvised weapons, and the best way to utilize them. Also the best ways to move your students to a safe position. For instance, can your classroom door be locked? Barricaded? Is there a place where you can be in position to strike if that barricade is breached? Do you have windows that can be broken as an alternate exit, or that could be a point of entry for an attacker? Basically the kind of layers of defense we often talk about on a personal level.
Also, if you're allowed or if the school doesn't already drill for it, talking about options with your students would seem to be a good idea, making sure everyone knows what to do in an emergency, just like I'm sure you have fire drills (and I'm aware this may not be an option, as it would possibly cause a full-on freak out among parents and/or administrators.) At the age of your students they could certainly be an asset in their own defense, if you can get everyone on board with a plan.
Obviously I'm focusing on an active shooter type deal given recent events, but thought should be also be given to more common situations, like fighting students, belligerent parents, etc.

TCinVA
12-17-2012, 11:32 AM
The bottom line is this:

If he has a gun and you don't, the odds heavily favor him.

Getting close enough to do damage to a guy who is there to kill as many people as he can before he offs himself isn't the same thing as getting close to a guy who wants your wallet.

This doesn't mean you roll over and wait to get shot by any means, but understand that closing distance with that sort of individual is a long shot highly likely to result in incapacitation the moment he lays eyes on you. If you can do it without him noticing or if he's close enough through a combination of stupidity/arrogance and you can take him by surprise it's different than going to the sound of gunshots and doing something useful.

That being said, there seems to have been multiple occasions in these incidents where the scumbag gets within arm's reach of his intended victims. ECQC would be a superb start in gaining useful skill in that sort of scenario.

Anything that would be useful as a weapon in that sort of scenario is probably prohibited by a teacher's workplace policy. You'll have to look over the details of the policy to see what is and isn't prohibited. Some policies may not regulate something like a pen knife. Granted it isn't much, but if it comes time to deal hands-on with a dude who wants to kill you being able to stuff a pen knife into his eye socket beats the hell out of fingernails. Something like one of the "tactical" pens on the market would probably get by pretty much all policies because, hey, it's a pen.

JHC
12-17-2012, 11:46 AM
Baseball bats are somewhat common in schools. Every right minded teacher might should have an aluminum bat in the room.

When I was on active duty in the early '80's body armor was non-existent in the regular Army at least. I had a Second Chance Level III packed in my . . . "A bag" I think we called them. I took a lot of ribbing about it too from a couple LTs I was naive enough to tell about it. (But not the one that borrowed it for a live fire and got knocked off a tree stump he was sitting on when a mortar round fell short.) But today, that's not so out of the box. I'm reaching but to TC's point - closing on a shooter with hands or improvised weapon - concealed armor would be better than a kick in the head.

butler coach
12-17-2012, 11:56 AM
thanks guys so far great info to think about. let me say that i will not be confronting anyone. i will be getting my students and my self the hell out. I am not a hero and want to go home everyday to my wife and kids. My door is locked and closed at all time and I do have a 16 oz hammer on my desk for in class use. I think the pen may be a good idea what recommendations on brand do you have.

JM Campbell
12-17-2012, 11:59 AM
Great input on pens in another thread here can't link, about to hit a meeting. PM NickA he has a cool cheap pen that might work out for you. IIRC it's a Zebra but not certain.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Zhurdan
12-17-2012, 12:02 PM
You guys are far and away more informed that I'll probably ever be, but I just want to point something out about what I posted.

It's hard to not inject my own "environment" when discussing stuff like this and I need to get better when talking about it by being considerate of others environment when saying what I'd do. For that I apologize.

The "distance" that I'm dealing with is akin to bad breath distance for the most part. I'd never go looking for the bad guy in my environment, I'd just check outside the window to make sure it's clear, then high tail it outta here like greased lightning and call the authorities, given enough time (and hope the 10 ft drop isn't too far). Time being important because by the time someone went loud and crazy where I work, there wouldn't be a whole lot of time to do much other than close and lock the door (small building, lots of corners, lots of doors). I can only think of two areas where there a longer line of sight than 40' (hallways).

I'd imagine, based on the school where my sister teaches, that there's a whole lot more distance to be concerned with. I don't envy having to deal with that and bringing this up to my sister would be akin to asking her to chop off all her hair and gauge her ears. Any tips for bringing this up "softly"?

NickA
12-17-2012, 12:19 PM
Great input on pens in another thread here can't link, about to hit a meeting. PM NickA he has a cool cheap pen that might work out for you. IIRC it's a Zebra but not certain.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Zebra F-701, it's the standard rec for a cheap "non-tactical" tactical pen.
If you want to spend more there's all kinds of options. I think people have had good luck with the S&W models (around $25). I prefer a clicky pen and the only option I know of there is from Surefire, but they're around $100, which is why I don't have one :p
There's at least one or two threads about pens here if you do a search.

peterb
12-17-2012, 12:43 PM
A standard dry-chemical fire extinguisher gives you a few feet of standoff distance, provides a visual screen, and can be a close-range impact weapon. Aim for the face. A lungful isn't immediately lethal but it might slow the attacker down.

JM Campbell
12-17-2012, 12:46 PM
A standard dry-chemical fire extinguisher gives you a few feet of standoff distance, provides a visual screen, and can be a close-range impact weapon. Aim for the face. A lungful isn't immediately lethal but it might slow the attacker down.

Excellent advice...they are everywhere in public buildings ...fire code you know.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

VolGrad
12-17-2012, 06:02 PM
I would also recommend a good glass breaking tool. I bought my teacher wife one a few years ago and gave one to another teacher friend over the weekend as she expressed concern as we talked about CT. This particular one looks like a pen but has a spring in it. You place the tip in the bottom corner of a window, pull back the spring, then let go. The window should shatter like mad.

I personally don't want my wife and her kids stuck in a room when a bad guy is trying to get in. Regardless of what the school security plan is she's always told me she's breaking a window and tossing babies out once the shooting starts. Can't argue with that.

butler coach
12-18-2012, 07:57 AM
Talking to our newly armed school police officers about stuff mentioned me getting a tac pen and he gave me his schrade tac pen as a gift. He told me it was for supporting them. I am glad these are the people around our kids

MGW
12-19-2012, 09:23 PM
So I work in one of these “gun free zones” however we now have armed security. What do you think I should carry while at work which is a high school grade 11 and 12. Gun and knife are out of the questions. A knife can be carried as long as it’s a “tool” used in every day activities. So I carry my Swiss army knife. In my room I have a lot of improvised weapons so not too concerned here just while I am moving through the halls or cafeteria duty, etc… I have been in some self-defense training and am going to get more soon. I am open to all suggestions just trying to do some brain storming to get a plan for myself.

Make sure you read your BOE policy closely. In our district getting caught with a concealed knife could potentially get me just as fired as being caught with a concealed firearm. That being said, I'm on very good terms with our one SRO for a variety of reasons. He knows I carry a knife and knows that I carry other "things" at certain events.

If anyone else found out I would likely be looking for a job though. For me it's worth the risk though. I am very careful about not CCing where it is illegal for me to do so.

On a kind of related topic you would be surprised how many schools in this state are not posted correctly according to state statue. I've often wondered if this is done intentionally by principals or the SRO or if people are just that ignorant of the statute.

KravPirate
12-19-2012, 10:06 PM
There are many tools available in a school or any office environment that can be converted to improvised weapons. If you need to buy something for a defensive scenario and can't carry a firearm or knife, I highly recommend a tactical handheld flashlight. it can be used as a blunt force weapon and temporarily blind in a low light area. For example, many modern schools and office buildings do not have windows in classrooms or offices. If that is the case, a good tactical handheld light is a great defensive tool. Lock the doors and cut off the lights.

Most importantly, a defensive object can never replace quality self defense training.

Lomshek
12-28-2012, 01:03 AM
Talking to our newly armed school police officers about stuff mentioned me getting a tac pen and he gave me his schrade tac pen as a gift. He told me it was for supporting them. I am glad these are the people around our kids

Since you're in tight with him ask about volunteering at their active shooter training whenever they have it. I did at one and it helped me see the good (and horrible) in our AS planning.

Aside from one deputy ND'ing into another's back with air soft the cops were on the ball. :p

MGW
12-28-2012, 06:03 PM
Since you're in tight with him ask about volunteering at their active shooter training whenever they have it. I did at one and it helped me see the good (and horrible) in our AS planning.

Aside from one deputy ND'ing into another's back with air soft the cops were on the ball. :p

I did active shooter training with our local LEO's at our high school a few years ago. I figured out right then and there that we're basically on our own if it happens. There is way to much territority to cover. Add response time to that and in all likelyhood it'll be all over before help can make a difference.