60167's Pissin Hot Screamers

[60167]

I just got a Dillon 550 and all the accoutrements to start loading. My immediate goal is to be able to efficiently churn out the highest quality 130PF gamer loads with the least amount of heartache as possible. My long term goal is to be able to apply what I've learned to to developing accurate and consistent rifle cartridges.

More to come.

[mmc45414]

Welcome to the slope, The Slippery Slope... :cool:

[shane45]

Are you new to reloading?

[Exiledviking]

Welcome to the slope, The Slippery Slope... :cool:

This! It never ends. And you never stop learning.
OP, what caliber are you going with for 130 PF?

[SecondsCount]

Are you new to reloading?

It looks like he has loaded rifle before.

[60167]

To clarify, I've never reloaded before but I'm familiar with the process since I am surrounded by people who do. I'm hoping to find the right combo so I can shoot 130 PF in 9mm with a soft recoil impulse.

I've set up the Dillon 550 Press with Hornady Dies. I purchased 124 Xtreme Rn Bullets, CCI 500 Primers, and Tightgroup. Based on a fair amount of internet research and suggestions from friends, my specs are: 1.145" OAL and .375" Crimp.

My initial goal was to load 3.8, 3,9, 4.0 and 4.1 grains of Titegroup and go chrono. After making 75 rounds, I found that I had really inconsistent seating depth due to the Hornady combination seating and crimping die. My OAL was floating between 1.138" and 1.152" for some reason. I didn't think using a chrono would be that fruitful because my understanding is that seating depth variance over .003" effects pressure. I went to the range and shot those rounds just to see if they would work. The rounds functioned and were fairly accurate, but I was surprised how harsh the recoil impulse was; it felt like I was shooting full power nato spec ammo.

I went back to the Hornady instruction manual and Youtube to revisit the the seat/crimp die setup. I set it up again twice following the directions carefully. I think it's improved, but there's some variance ( as much as .0004" intermittently) in seating depth but I suspect that it has to do with using mixed brass. I have a separate seating die on order and I'm going to try seating and crimping as separate processes to see what that does to fix the issue.

In the meantime, I made new rounds one-by-one to maintain QC on the OAL. I loaded 3.5, 3.6, 3.7, and 3.8 grains of Titegroup. I made 10 rounds of each grain weight with a .375" and a.380" crimp for science. I'll be shooting those and measuring with the chrono to see what I need to make PF.

I think I'm going to eventually go up in bullet weight and perhaps change powders based on recommendations from others. I purchased the components I did because they were on the shelf in front of me when I went on my shopping spree, I'm not married to anything at this point.

[NETim]

Generally speaking, loading for the action pistol games is more about reliability than it is accuracy. Accuracy is wonderful and should be a goal, but first and foremost, get the gun running reliably. Make PF with a little to spare if you’re playing gun games for real and have to contend with match chronos.

Components like powder and primers aren’t so critical as they would be in the precision rifle/benchrest game. These days, it’s just nice to have the components that will work, even if they’re not optimal accuracy wise.

Loading on a progressive press, I look for powders that drop consistent charges, like most any ball powder. Flake shotgun powders can be problem children.

Make sure the bullet seating stem in your seating die closely approximates the bullet profile. Some guys will put some RTV in the stem and press a bullet in it to get a better fit, which should yield more consistent seating depths as long as the bullets themselves are consistent anyway. (Allow the RTV to cure naturally.)

I have an aftermarket powder baffle in my Dillon powder measure on my 650. I think it delivers more consistent powder charges.

Also, consider getting a case gauge of some kind. A Shockbottle/Hundo is worth its’ weight in gold IMHO. A single gauge will get you by but the Hundo greatly speeds up the process. I load range pickup brass and HiTek coated lead bullets. That combo invites trouble. Mixed headstamp brass fired out of all kinds of guns with all kinds of chamber dimensions will give the occasional round that the case gauge will reject. Better to find it at the bench than in the middle of a stage with club bragging rights on the line. Stuff that passes the Hundo test is GTG.

Good to hear that you have mentors. Good luck!

[1911Nut]

Generally speaking, loading for the action pistol games is more about reliability than it is accuracy. Accuracy is wonderful and should be a goal, but first and foremost, get the gun running reliably. Make PF with a little to spare if you’re playing gun games for real and have to contend with match chronos.

Components like powder and primers aren’t so critical as they would be in the precision rifle/benchrest game. These days, it’s just nice to have the components that will work, even if they’re not optimal accuracy wise.

Loading on a progressive press, I look for powders that drop consistent charges, like most any ball powder. Flake shotgun powders can be problem children.

Make sure the bullet seating stem in your seating die closely approximates the bullet profile. Some guys will put some RTV in the stem and press a bullet in it to get a better fit, which should yield more consistent seating depths as long as the bullets themselves are consistent anyway. (Allow the RTV to cure naturally.)

I have an aftermarket powder baffle in my Dillon powder measure on my 650. I think it delivers more consistent powder charges.

Also, consider getting a case gauge of some kind. A Shockbottle/Hundo is worth its’ weight in gold IMHO. A single gauge will get you by but the Hundo greatly speeds up the process. I load range pickup brass and HiTek coated lead bullets. That combo invites trouble. Mixed headstamp brass fired out of all kinds of guns with all kinds of chamber dimensions will give the occasional round that the case gauge will reject. Better to find it at the bench than in the middle of a stage with club bragging rights on the line. Stuff that passes the Hundo test is GTG.

Good to hear that you have mentors. Good luck!

Very solid advice. Insert "Like" here

[Exiledviking]

I went back to the Hornady instruction manual and Youtube to revisit the the seat/crimp die setup. I set it up again twice following the directions carefully. I think it's improved, but there's some variance ( as much as .0004" intermittently) in seating depth but I suspect that it has to do with using mixed brass. I have a separate seating die on order and I'm going to try seating and crimping as separate processes..

In my experience, bullets like the one you're using will show up to 0.005" in variance in overall length, sometimes more.
0.0004" of variance would be awesome...😉
I read somewhere that commercial reloaders use a tolerance of +/- 0.005" in OAL. That's typically what I see unless I'm using premium bullets like Hornady XTPs.

The "blemished" 115 gr FMJ bullets I'm currently reloading that I bought from American Reloading are giving me a OAL of +/- 0.005". Considering that I'm using them for action pistol and steel plate matches, and that I got 2000 real FMJs for $120, I'm perfectly happy with that.

[Exiledviking]

Very solid advice. Insert "Like" here
Ditto.

[Exiledviking]

Generally speaking, loading for the action pistol games is more about reliability than it is accuracy. Accuracy is wonderful and should be a goal, but first and foremost, get the gun running reliably. Make PF with a little to spare if you’re playing gun games for real and have to contend with match chronos.

Components like powder and primers aren’t so critical as they would be in the precision rifle/benchrest game. These days, it’s just nice to have the components that will work, even if they’re not optimal accuracy wise.

Loading on a progressive press, I look for powders that drop consistent charges, like most any ball powder. Flake shotgun powders can be problem children.

Make sure the bullet seating stem in your seating die closely approximates the bullet profile. Some guys will put some RTV in the stem and press a bullet in it to get a better fit, which should yield more consistent seating depths as long as the bullets themselves are consistent anyway. (Allow the RTV to cure naturally.)

I have an aftermarket powder baffle in my Dillon powder measure on my 650. I think it delivers more consistent powder charges.

Also, consider getting a case gauge of some kind. A Shockbottle/Hundo is worth its’ weight in gold IMHO. A single gauge will get you by but the Hundo greatly speeds up the process. I load range pickup brass and HiTek coated lead bullets. That combo invites trouble. Mixed headstamp brass fired out of all kinds of guns with all kinds of chamber dimensions will give the occasional round that the case gauge will reject. Better to find it at the bench than in the middle of a stage with club bragging rights on the line. Stuff that passes the Hundo test is GTG.

Good to hear that you have mentors. Good luck!

Another like here.

[60167]

Thanks for all the solid advice.

Now that I've shot my second batch through chronograph, I'm seeing an average spread of 60 FPS across the board on all my loads. What's acceptable and how do I mitigate it?

[NETim]

Thanks for all the solid advice.

Now that I've shot my second batch through chronograph, I'm seeing an average spread of 60 FPS across the board on all my loads. What's acceptable and how do I mitigate it?

To preface this long winded essay, I’ll state at the outset that I have never loaded TG in anything. So I have no first hand experience with the stuff. A lot of folks load it, so it must have something going for it. I load W231 in my nines because I have a fair amount of it on hand. It works even though it’s sooty stuff.

So very, very many variables are involved here. Truthfully, I’ve never paid much attention to the SD of any of my loads intended for plinking or even match use. I shoot for a solid average velocity that makes PF and call it good. Usually 25 rounds across the chrono is more than enough.

Maybe shame on me but I get by. The matches I shoot most are at a club with shallow bays, so a 20 yard shot is a long one. Occasionally a demented MD will put 6” plates out there at 15, 18, 20 yards but I still ring ‘em consistently if I do my part anyway.

I am not trying to create bullseye loads. 😎

What is the SD of your reloads?

Titegroup is a fairly dense powder, so it doesn’t fill the case as much for a given charge weight.

If you look over this MEC powder bushing chart, you’ll see that a given powder bushing will drop more TG by weight than some other powders. Therefore a 4 grain charge of TG won’t fill the case as much as a 4 grain charge of say, Hodgdon Int’l Clays. For example, the MEC bushing #16 will drop 15.4 grs of TG as opposed to 10.8 grs of IC. Granted, it’s not going to be a dramatic difference at typical 9mm charge weights, but still there won’t be as much TG in 4 grains (by volume) as there will be compared to other powders.

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/MEC-BUSHING-CHARTNOTES-24.pdf

What I’m getting at in my long winded way is the way the powder charge lies in the case at the time of ignition can affect velocity and can account for velocity swings. It’s obviously more pronounced in larger cases. The more space a powder takes up in a case the more consistent the load will be all things being equal. Generally. Usually.

It’s just one of many factors that can affect velocity. Internal case volume, primer consistency, primer seating depth, bullet seating depth are just a few.

Anyway, what kind of accuracy do your loads deliver as compared to factory loads and/or your friends’ loads? If they’re comparable and they function the way you like then you’re pretty much there. I wouldn’t burn precious, expensive reloading components chasing the nth degree of accuracy unless your loads just plain suck in the accuracy department. Not for action handgun games anyway.

I put my efforts into case prep. I take grungy, crappy range brass, polish it up in a wet tumbler, make it look pretty and then watch it feed slick as snot through the gun. Sometimes I even manage to push the good shooters a little with my efforts. 😄

[Spartan1980]

Thanks for all the solid advice.

Now that I've shot my second batch through chronograph, I'm seeing an average spread of 60 FPS across the board on all my loads. What's acceptable and how do I mitigate it?

Are you running mixed brass like most of us? That's probably the bulk of your variance. I never got great numbers running WST powder even though it metered freaking outstanding through Dillon's measure. I mean, I never had to touch it once set, it was always spot on and I only checked powder weights outta habit, kind of outstanding. Variance was .1gr maybe. Loads shot fine with very unimpressive spreads.

And, since when is 130PF a "pissin hot screamer'? LMAO!

[shane45]

As a new reloader, I appluad your choice in press. I run into a lot of new reloaders wanting to jump straight into say a 750. I think the 550 is a much beter choice because its more forgiving. I find its much easier to back out of a mistake when you need to which happens a lot when starting out. Good luck to you!

[60167]

Truthfully, I’ve never paid much attention to the SD of any of my loads intended for plinking or even match use. I shoot for a solid average velocity that makes PF and call it good. Usually 25 rounds across the chrono is more than enough.

Maybe shame on me but I get by. The matches I shoot most are at a club with shallow bays, so a 20 yard shot is a long one. Occasionally a demented MD will put 6” plates out there at 15, 18, 20 yards but I still ring ‘em consistently if I do my part anyway.

I am not trying to create bullseye loads. 😎


This is helpful. My overall goal is to make them good enough to get by, and not get too wrapped around the axle on minutiae. I agree with your sentiment of reliability trumping all else.

[60167]

And, since when is 130PF a "pissin hot screamer'? LMAO!


Haha, it's mainly what my buddies and I refer to reloads. It's a pretty tongue-in-cheek reference to gun show fudds.

[gtmtnbiker98]

If I can offer one piece of advice. Get a light that illuminates under the dies, so you can see that your cases are charged accordingly and it assists in seating the bullet atop the brass for stage 3. You simply can’t have too much light.

[JCS]

What gun(s) are you loading for?

You need to plunk test them as well to make sure they will work for your gun. Especially if you are shooting a CZ. I have to load very short for my CZ.

[Exiledviking]

What gun(s) are you loading for?

You need to plunk test them as well to make sure they will work for your gun. Especially if you are shooting a CZ. I have to load very short for my CZ.

I found that I had load shorter for my gen 5 Glocks too. Gotta do the plunk test and rotate to be safe.

[MGW]

I love the 550. Great press. TG group always felt “blasty” to me. A lot of people use it because it burns clean. As stated above, 231 works really well in 9mm and will have a more mild feel to it. It doesn’t burn as clean as TG but I always liked it. HP38 is the same powder from a different manufacturer. I haven’t used the seating die that you have. We always had really consistent results with the Dillon carbide dies. A three die set is $129.

[Jim Watson]

231 works really well in 9mm and will have a more mild feel to it. It doesn’t burn as clean as TG but I always liked it. HP38 is the same powder from a different manufacturer.

Nitpick Alert
W231 and HP38 are the same powder from the same manufacturer.
The distributor, Hodgdon, just labels it for whichever brand they have orders for.

News Alert
I have recently learned that AA#5 is now the same as HS6.
Caution, it didn't used to be, check your can of #5 for source.

[LittleLebowski]

I love the 550. Great press. TG group always felt “blasty” to me. A lot of people use it because it burns clean. As stated above, 231 works really well in 9mm and will have a more mild feel to it. It doesn’t burn as clean as TG but I always liked it. HP38 is the same powder from a different manufacturer. I haven’t used the seating die that you have. We always had really consistent results with the Dillon carbide dies. A three die set is $129.

I use TG because it's economical. Not the most pleasant to shoot, but damn those TG jugs last.

[Exiledviking]

I use Titegroup for my .50GI as that's one of the few powders they have loads for.
It's not my favorite powder due to the density, the report, and the sooty cases at low to mid-range charges.
For a new reloader Titegroup can be an issue as it's very easy to put a double or triple charge in a case.
For example, I'm currently developing a sub-minor to minor 9mm competition load using WSF on my Dillon RL450. The starting powder charge of WSF has enough volume that there's no way to put a double charge in a 9mm case. I really like that about WSF, plus it tends to burn fairly clean.

[60167]

For my next batch of ammo, I'm going to order some new projectiles and use what's left of my Titegroup. A lot of people at my club suggest 147 Blue Bullets with ~3.4 grains Titegroup to accomplish my goal of 130 PF with a soft impulse.

That said, if I were to hypothetically wipe the slate clean and start with new powder and projectiles, what would you suggest?


As an aside, I'm going to shoot a match tonight with my new loads. Maybe I'm crazy, maybe I'm stupid, or reckless; but I'm inviting Murphy to the party.

[Exiledviking]

For my next batch of ammo, I'm going to order some new projectiles and use what's left of my Titegroup. A lot of people at my club suggest 147 Blue Bullets with ~3.4 grains Titegroup to accomplish my goal of 130 PF with a soft impulse.

That said, if I were to hypothetically wipe the slate clean and start with new powder and projectiles, what would you suggest?


As an aside, I'm going to shoot a match tonight with my new loads. Maybe I'm crazy, maybe I'm stupid, or reckless; but I'm inviting Murphy to the party.

Will you be shooting indoors? If so, quite a few competitors on another forum say they don't like coated bullets like the Blue Bullets due to the smokiness from the coating.
If you look at RMR bullets or Precision Delta bullets, you'll see that their jacketed bullets are the just about the same price as the Blue Bullets.
As far as powder goes, I really like Accurate No. 2, N320, N330, and WSF for 9mm. Not sure if AA#2 will make 130 PF though.

[SecondsCount]

For my next batch of ammo, I'm going to order some new projectiles and use what's left of my Titegroup. A lot of people at my club suggest 147 Blue Bullets with ~3.4 grains Titegroup to accomplish my goal of 130 PF with a soft impulse.

That said, if I were to hypothetically wipe the slate clean and start with new powder and projectiles, what would you suggest?


As an aside, I'm going to shoot a match tonight with my new loads. Maybe I'm crazy, maybe I'm stupid, or reckless; but I'm inviting Murphy to the party.
A heavy bullet with a light charge of fast burning powder will give the soft recoil pulse/gamer load that you are looking for.

My experience with Titegroup is limited, but it is a fast powder. I use the 135 Blue with a light charge of Clay Dot, and it shoots soft.

With 124 grain bullets, I use N320 or WSF, but Titegroup would work.

[60167]

Will you be shooting indoors? If so, quite a few competitors on another forum say they don't like coated bullets like the Blue Bullets due to the smokiness from the coating.
If you look at RMR bullets or Precision Delta bullets, you'll see that their jacketed bullets are the just about the same price as the Blue Bullets.
As far as powder goes, I really like Accurate No. 2, N320, N330, and WSF for 9mm. Not sure if AA#2 will make 130 PF though.

Great point, I shoot 1-2 indoor matches a week.

[60167]

Well folks… my initial impressions are good. Aside from the 100-ish test rounds for metering, I shot my first mass produced (150 rounds) batch of ammo at tonight’s indoor match. The rounds functioned without issue and the perceived recoil was subjectively lighter in a match condition in contrast to a loud stuffy indoor shooting lane.

Thanks everyone for your great feedback. I’m glad I started poking around in this part of the forum.

[MGW]

Nitpick Alert
W231 and HP38 are the same powder from the same manufacturer.
The distributor, Hodgdon, just labels it for whichever brand they have orders for.

News Alert
I have recently learned that AA#5 is now the same as HS6.
Caution, it didn't used to be, check your can of #5 for source.

Good to know. Thanks!

[mmc45414]

Maybe I'm crazy, maybe I'm stupid, or reckless; but I'm inviting Murphy to the party.

I shot my first mass produced (150 rounds) batch of ammo at tonight’s indoor match. The rounds functioned without issue and the perceived recoil was subjectively lighter in a match condition in contrast to a loud stuffy indoor shooting lane.

Depending on what you do for brass, since you shoot that many matches, you might consider one of the gages. I used to think that was a goofy step, but one bad round from one lame case that got mixed into yours will screw up a match. I decided to buy one, figuring I would use it just for rounds that would be going to matches. But they most all come with flip trays so it is easy to transfer them into an MTM box, another thing I used to think was goofy, but it really now enjoy keeping a stack of them on the bench so I know what I have on hand. I load my magazines from the last partial, and grab a fresh box of Qty100 when I head out to shoot. I figured I would just check match ammo, but now I just do them all, it is a casual thing you can do a few at a time when you want to. I do not drink beer when I reload, but putting rounds into the checker/boxes often includes a cold one. :cool:

129871

[farscott]

Nitpick Alert
W231 and HP38 are the same powder from the same manufacturer.
The distributor, Hodgdon, just labels it for whichever brand they have orders for.

News Alert
I have recently learned that AA#5 is now the same as HS6.
Caution, it didn't used to be, check your can of #5 for source.

Things like this are why reloading manuals have a limited lifespan. Many powders have changed formulations, and older manuals show much higher maximum powder weights than newer manuals. Whenever I open a new container of powder, I now work the load up from scratch.

On the seating die, the Redding Competition Seating Die has a micrometer to allow finer seating adjustments. Not inexpensive but it pays for itself very quickly.

[Exiledviking]

On the seating die, the Redding Competition Seating Die has a micrometer to allow finer seating adjustments. Not inexpensive but it pays for itself very quickly.

I second this. I have one for 9mm, one for .45ACP, and one for .38 Super. Makes it SO much easier when changing bullets and/or seating depths.

[Spartan1980]

Haha, it's mainly what my buddies and I refer to reloads. It's a pretty tongue-in-cheek reference to gun show fudds.

Well, just so you know, I got a chuckle out of it when I read it. I may have to steal it somewhere down the line. :cool:

[awp_101]

I wish I’d known that term when a buddy told me about his uncle whose starting point for .44 Magnum loads was wherever his loading manual maxed out.

[60167]

I’ve loaded all 1000 projectiles I initially started with. Big range day tomorrow to take advantage of the nice weather. I expect to shoot 500-600 rounds during this time, which is about average for me.

I got a shock bottle hundo case guage. Thanks for that suggestion, it’s a game changer.

I got a LEE seating die and moved my Hornady seating/crimp over to the next vacant station. I ran the seating part up so it’s just a crimp die for now. I’m still not sorting my brass so there will be some variation in OAL but I think there’s some merit to seating/crimping in separate steps.

I also started having a bitch of a time dropping de-capped primers; and they interfered with the primer bar’s full travel. For whatever reason the little trap door would stick open at the top of the stroke and spit the used primers everywhere. After some research, I found the cotter pin that holds things together will get dirty and bind. The solution is to replace the cotter pin with something that won’t collect crud. I used a finish nail and the problem seems to be solved. You can see in the pic where a bunch of schmutz is collecting- a couple old primers in there is enough to get everything out of time.

130309

[SecondsCount]

....bitch of a time dropping de-capped primers; and they interfered with the primer bar’s full travel. For whatever reason the little trap door would stick open at the top of the stroke and spit the used primers everywhere. After some research, I found the cotter pin that holds things together will get dirty and bind. The solution is to replace the cotter pin with something that won’t collect crud. I used a finish nail and the problem seems to be solved. You can see in the pic where a bunch of schmutz is collecting- a couple old primers in there is enough to get everything out of time.

130309

I love the 550, but agree that the priming mechanism is a pain to keep clean. I keep one of those little parts cleaning brushes nearby, and use it to give that area a quick cleaning when the primers need a refill.

[60167]

I just cranked out 500 rounds for my next practice session. It takes me about 12 minutes to crank out 100 rounds, and about 4 minutes for QC using a Shockbottle guage and calipers. No dropped primers, looks like the nail fixed worked.

[Jamie]

**Liked** for the finish nail.

I used a straight cut piece of a "jumbo" paper clip for the same. Solved the issue on my old 550. (press is 35 + years old and still running).

Lots of gunk will gather around the primer bar. I keep an old tooth brush handy for that.

[mmc45414]

I used a straight cut piece of a "jumbo" paper clip for the same.
I think I used a thin piece of safty wire, the more pin-to-hole slop the better, probably.


Lots of gunk will gather around the primer bar. I keep an old tooth brush handy for that.
You do not want oil, but I have used the furniture polish I use to make the shotgun primers slide on the SL900.
I think some people use One Shot, just want to be sure whatever is dry before you introduce any new crud.
Also if you do not have a compressor a can of computer blow-off air might help.

[Jamie]

You do not want oil, but I have used the furniture polish I use to make the shotgun primers slide on the SL900.
I think some people use One Shot, just want to be sure whatever is dry before you introduce any new crud.
Also if you do not have a compressor a can of computer blow-off air might help.

Absolutely. No oil. I'll lightly brush the surface with some fine steel wool. But that's rarely done.

I had to look it up but I also use a JW Systems Primer Track bearing plate. I think LL mentioned it several years ago.

I just saw them listed on Ebay actually.

And 100% agree on compressed air. I keep a can on my reloading bench and dust off debris every time I load another tube of primers.

Good tip one the One Shot. I might give it a try. TY

[60167]

I shot 600 rounds the other day, I'm shooting another 600 tomorrow. Teaching Monday, next Saturday and the following Friday with two matches in between. I have 4000 projectiles coming from Summit City at the suggestion of a buddy. The price is great but the shipping is slow, so I had to run into Scheels to grab more 124 Xtremes to carry me through. I just stumbled across brass monkey bullets (saw it on the back of a guy's jersey actually, lol) and they offer good prices and reportedly fast shipping.

I'm shooting faster than I can crank them out, and doing both faster than the shipping rate, so I need to get ahead on components to keep pace.

Logistics.

[mmc45414]

I just got a Dillon 550

I shot 600 rounds the other day, I'm shooting another 600 tomorrow.
I'm shooting faster than I can crank them out
I think you know this, but there is a different press in your future. And probably a bullet feeder.
I went the 550 to another 550 to a 650 to a another 650 to an 1100.
Current Situation: 550 & 650 & 1100.
You would be well served by a 650, then get the bullet feeder if you want.
1100 is nice of you have many crimped cases working their way into your supply.

[60167]

I think you know this, but there is a different press in your future. And probably a bullet feeder.
I went the 550 to another 550 to a 650 to a another 650 to an 1100.
Current Situation: 550 & 650 & 1100.
You would be well served by a 650, then get the bullet feeder if you want.
1100 is nice of you have many crimped cases working their way into your supply.

I think you are right.

[mmc45414]

I think you are right.
Resistance Is Futile, you are one of Us now... :cool:

Anyway, the good news is that you have not gone too deep into 550 stuff. In my case I lagged when it came to transitioning into a 650 because I had many 550 setups that would have cost a great deal to replicate (the 650 setups include case feed components and cost(ed) significantly more. Then I realized I could keep one of the two 550s and get a 650, initially only planning to use it for 9mm. And maybe 5.56. And then I liked it enough I got a 45acp setup (used once). And one time I made a bit of an impulsive decision and got a 38/357 setup (not sure I have ever used that one). At this point the main thing I do on my 650 is load 5.56 cases that have been sized and swaged on the 1100. But maybe after I retire my 38 and 45 volume will go up, never know...

I ended up with a bunch of crimped 9mm cases polluting my supply of brass. I thought I got a real bargain on that brass, a smarter person would have thrown everything away and started over. Me, OTOH, spent $2500 on a press with a swager station...

But if you are not encountering many/any swaged primer pockets (and you are checking for high primers when you Hundo) you would probably be (very) happy with a 650. You can go faster, but also easier with the indexing and case feed. And selling a used 550 is like selling a used Honda Civic.

Then you have the option of adding the bullet feeder, this speeds up the process a little more, but also lowers the stress level, especially if you end up loading many of those slippery coated bullets.

[60167]

Resistance Is Futile, you are one of Us now... :cool:

Anyway, the good news is that you have not gone too deep into 550 stuff. In my case I lagged when it came to transitioning into a 650 because I had many 550 setups that would have cost a great deal to replicate (the 650 setups include case feed components and cost(ed) significantly more. Then I realized I could keep one of the two 550s and get a 650, initially only planning to use it for 9mm. And maybe 5.56. And then I liked it enough I got a 45acp setup (used once). And one time I made a bit of an impulsive decision and got a 38/357 setup (not sure I have ever used that one). At this point the main thing I do on my 650 is load 5.56 cases that have been sized and swaged on the 1100. But maybe after I retire my 38 and 45 volume will go up, never know...

I ended up with a bunch of crimped 9mm cases polluting my supply of brass. I thought I got a real bargain on that brass, a smarter person would have thrown everything away and started over. Me, OTOH, spent $2500 on a press with a swager station...

But if you are not encountering many/any swaged primer pockets (and you are checking for high primers when you Hundo) you would probably be (very) happy with a 650. You can go faster, but also easier with the indexing and case feed. And selling a used 550 is like selling a used Honda Civic.

Then you have the option of adding the bullet feeder, this speeds up the process a little more, but also lowers the stress level, especially if you end up loading many of those slippery coated bullets.

Much to think about.

[NETim]

I jumped from an SDB to a 650. Output significantly improved. Added a Mr. Bullet not long after. Output improved significantly again. Set up can be a bit fiddly but it’s worth it.

I get a few crimped primer cases in the mix. Not many though. I have a Dillon primer pocket swager bolted to the bench to work over the occasional crimped case.

Slow ship speeds are not helped by USPS “inefficiencies.” The worker bees don’t like handling those heavy boxes. I suspect the days of flat rate heavy boxes will be coming to a close.

[Spartan1980]

I think you are right.

He IS right. Just pony up for an 1100 now. Set it up for one caliber and call it a day. Use your other press(es) for smaller qty loading. This is what you will end up doing. Mark that down. :cool:

[NETim]

He IS right. Just pony up for an 1100 now. Set it up for one caliber and call it a day. Use your other press(es) for smaller qty loading. This is what you will end up doing. Mark that down. :cool:

I am inclined to agree. If I were young and knew I had years and years of reloading ahead of me, I’d go full bore with the 1100.

[mmc45414]

Just pony up for an 1100 now. Set it up for one caliber and call it a day.
Because of swaging, I switch the 1100 over to 5.56 every couple years or so (when I am ahead on 9mm), just to size and swage.
While it is setup I will size/swage every 223/5.56 case I can lay my hands on. Then form any sketchy ones into 300BO. Then I can trim and debur at my leisure, and load as needed on the 650.

[60167]

I've loaded and shot 2k of 124 Xtreme over 4.0 of Titegroup to make 130 PF. I've ordered a fair amount of 147 projectiles... but they haven't arrived yet. So I stopped by Bass Pro today while I was on that side of town to discover that they have 147 Xtremes. I bought a box of those and a brick of Winchester primers, which I have no experience with.

I'm loading 3.1, 3.2, and 3.3 Grains of Titegroup at 1.140 OAL to try out. I don't have any plans on actually shooting these projectiles in any meaningful quantity but perhaps it's smart to work up a load for things I can easily grab off the shelf in a pinch.

[60167]

I've loaded and shot 2k of 124 Xtreme over 4.0 of Titegroup to make 130 PF. I've ordered a fair amount of 147 projectiles... but they haven't arrived yet. So I stopped by Bass Pro today while I was on that side of town to discover that they have 147 Xtremes. I bought a box of those and a brick of Winchester primers, which I have no experience with.

I'm loading 3.1, 3.2, and 3.3 Grains of Titegroup at 1.140 OAL to try out. I don't have any plans on actually shooting these projectiles in any meaningful quantity but perhaps it's smart to work up a load for things I can easily grab off the shelf in a pinch.

Update- I had feeding issues, where the slide was either locked closed on a chambered round, or a double feed from poor extraction.

I set my OAL for 1.145 but since I'm using mixed brass, the variance lead to some OAL being closer to 1.148 on the extreme end. When I was back at the bench, I pulled my factory M&P barrel and found that none of the rounds passed the plunk test because the bullet profile engaged with the rifling sooner compared to a pointier 124 which doesn't engage the rifling at that length. The overall length was short enough for the gun to cycle most of the time, but the extreme length of ~1.148 was just too much.

I did the plunk test (with failures) on a factory M&P barrel, but interestingly all rounds passed the test with an APEX barrel. My conclusion is that a case guage only tells half the story when I'm developing a load.

The more you know.

[60167]

I FINALLY got in an order of coated bullets (it only took 3 weeks to ship) and got everything set up. Like I stated in my first post, I planned on finding a load that works for my needs and cranking it out in volume with little desire to mess with a bunch of different variables.

The details are as follows:


147 grain round-nose polymer coated Brass Monkey projectile.
CCI SPP or White River Energetics SPP
3.3 Grains of Titegroup
Loaded to 1.385"
.375 Crimp


It's coming in at 922 FPS on average, which is a healthy 135 Power Factor. It shoot's 2" out of my MP's and functions just fine in my P365.

I can get a brick of CCI's locally for $80 or a brick of White River primers for .05 and free shipping online if I buy in enough volume. I've been shooting a bunch of locally sourced stuff with the White River primers lately and they've all seated fine and gone off without issue. I'll probably use CCI for big matches and WR for practice.

My biggest complaint is that these dang coated bullets are so freakin slick it's hard for me to grab them out of the tray and place them in the case mouth when reloading. It slows my process a bit and is just another nagging reminder that I need to nut up and get a 650 or something with a bullet feeder. Such is life.

[60167]

https://www.armanov.com/shop/powder-measure-knob-with-absolute-position-3110?category=10#attr=1948

This is foreshadowing.

[NETim]

I FINALLY got in an order of coated bullets (it only took 3 weeks to ship) and got everything set up. Like I stated in my first post, I planned on finding a load that works for my needs and cranking it out in volume with little desire to mess with a bunch of different variables.

The details are as follows:


147 grain round-nose polymer coated Brass Monkey projectile.
CCI SPP or White River Energetics SPP
3.3 Grains of Titegroup
Loaded to 1.385"
.375 Crimp


It's coming in at 922 FPS on average, which is a healthy 135 Power Factor. It shoot's 2" out of my MP's and functions just fine in my P365.

I can get a brick of CCI's locally for $80 or a brick of White River primers for .05 and free shipping online if I buy in enough volume. I've been shooting a bunch of locally sourced stuff with the White River primers lately and they've all seated fine and gone off without issue. I'll probably use CCI for big matches and WR for practice.

My biggest complaint is that these dang coated bullets are so freakin slick it's hard for me to grab them out of the tray and place them in the case mouth when reloading. It slows my process a bit and is just another nagging reminder that I need to nut up and get a 650 or something with a bullet feeder. Such is life.

Yes, you want a bullet feeder. It speeds up the loading process exponentially.

I have been using Servocios Adventuras(sp?) primers with excellent results. Ammoseek will give you the online prices for online retailers. SyA primers have been 100% in my Glocks and Prodigy. Seating them fully is key.

Your OAL sounds long to me. They pass the plunk test?

[revchuck38]

Your OAL sounds long to me. They pass the plunk test?

Yeah, that OAL wouldn't fit in a .38 Super magazine, much less a 9x19 mag. Did you mean 1.1385?

[60167]

Yeah, that OAL wouldn't fit in a .38 Super magazine, much less a 9x19 mag. Did you mean 1.1385?

You are correct.

[60167]

Yes, you want a bullet feeder. It speeds up the loading process exponentially.

I have been using Servocios Adventuras(sp?) primers with excellent results. Ammoseek will give you the online prices for online retailers. SyA primers have been 100% in my Glocks and Prodigy. Seating them fully is key.

Your OAL sounds long to me. They pass the plunk test?



I'm very interested in the SA Primers. I'm glad to hear they work for you.

[60167]

131390

3000 rounds of Summit City 147. This should get me through a few weeks.

[willie]

131390

3000 rounds of Summit City 147. This should get me through a few weeks.

Swingline makes rubber finger tips that might help picking these up.

[revchuck38]

131390

3000 rounds of Summit City 147. This should get me through a few weeks.

Right before Covid hit, I ordered a case of 124-grain FMJs and an eight-pound jug of BE-86. I rarely time things that well. ;)

[SecondsCount]

131390

3000 rounds of Summit City 147. This should get me through a few weeks.

So awesome 😎

[60167]

Well shoot darn. You guys were right. It's not that I didn't believe you, it's that I ordered all those Summit City bullets weeks ago. The Titegroup burns really fast and burns the Hi-Tek Coating, causing it to smoke and smell funny.

The new gen coating on the Brass Monkey bullets doesn't smoke or smell nearly as much, if at all. I need to shoot up all of these, but it seems like I'll be standardizing around the BM bullets for the time being.

[revchuck38]

I've had good luck with 231 and BE-86 with coated bullets.

[mmc45414]

Yeah, maybe something just slightly slower might be better with 147gn anyway.

[60167]

I think I should rename this thread "Misadventures of a Stupid Person"

Anyway... As a stupid person, I am easily parted with money so I decided it would be neat to get the Armanov Powder Drop Knob so I can (theoretically) have a finer adjustment of powder I drop.

131483

I get to work on removing my existing powder drop and I can't get the original bolt out. Nice.

131485

I manage to get the new unit installed and everything works as advertised. Unfortunately, the knob is plastic and feels very flimsy and cheap. I'm in no way better off.

[60167]

I got an order of Servicios y Aventuras primers in. I loaded up 300 rounds and hit the range for a practice session. Out of the 300, I have 15 that failed to ignite on the first hit out of my factory M&P. 12/13 ignited after a second hit and one failed to ignite after several attempts.

I understand seating depth is the culprit. A brief search online determined there's little I can do to change primer seating depth on the 550, but there's a two-stage technique that some report using to push the press handle forward for decent results. At this point I think I'm going to rely on CCI primers for matches and things that "matter."

[60167]

Before

131697

After:

131698

Thus far, I've had the usual 550 experience. The primer bar would get dirty and hang up in the back position, I'd tap it lightly and it would shoot forward and launch a primer, thereby gumming up the works. I could prevent that from happening if I went slowly, but that too compounds over time.

Enter this thing: I found it on Reddit, ordered it on Ebay from a dude who makes them in his garage. The extended plate holds things steady and the bearing keeps everything aligned and smooth. I haven't used it yet, therefore I'm probably posting too soon, but I'm optimistic.

This unit, plus the spent primer drop mod (a finish nail) and the Armanov powder knob has this setup about as good as it can get.