Dedication, the LCP, and LCR

[SCCY Marshal]

Due to circumstances last summer, I spent a few months with a Ruger LCP in my pocket rather than my usual LCP for part of the day. I pulled the little bottom-feeder out, confirmed function and zero, cleaned, reviewed a notebook entry, and carried on. I'd have to disassemble, de-grease, clean, and re-lube the gun every two weeks to keep it reasonably reliable. Drop the magazine, track the chambered round to avoid both setback and excessive marring of the case rim by the extractor, fiddle with it all, occasionally unload the magazine to take apart and clean, and grow less patient with every session. My revolvers just needed occasional oil when seeming thirsty every few months and maybe a dust bunny brushed off once in a while to feel like I was doing any upkeep at all.

I'm a fairly driven gun owner and carrier and have seen the average dude. Their pocket .380 tends to look like something pulled from a lint trap in its daily service condition. So, when my stint with the part-time LCP came to an end, I kept it loaded and threw it in a pocket for a couple months of carry. Not as a carry gun but riding along in a pocket all the same. It was loaded with its preferred load proven again and again over years and a vetted magazine. While transferring from the old pants or vest to the new, I would blow any lint from the hammer slot, pop the mag free to check the top round for corrosion, chamber check the slide back enough to see brass, and bump back into battery before re-seating the magazine. A basic daily pre-flight.

Yesterday seemed a good day to haul it out to the range for a low round count maintenance practice session with my LCP. The cold drill was a single rep of the Hayes 5^5 and I ran the .380 LCP first from low-ready.

*Bang...*

*Imaginary exasperated sigh as I noticed the slide out of battery while tracking the front sight back down*

*tap-rack1*

*Bang-Bang-Bang-Bang*

I managed to land all shots in time and on target with the immediate action; but I have spent decades practicing tap-rack, done so with even pocket pistols to the point my non-grip fingers stick out automatically to allow my support hand to slam the magazine, the magazine well was filed to allow the magazine baseplate to reliably seat deep enough to actually lock the magazine, and I expected the stoppage. I expected the stoppage because experience with the LCP in every variant since my first-year-production example told me it was coming without a full biweekly service. The magazine drop and chamber check have never been enough to break the slide sufficiently free for reliable function. Fully unloading and reloading as an owner with a "flawless" LCP does at the yearly or biannual range session does before lecturing me about being wrong has shown to extend the cleaning service time due to cranking the slide gunk through a full range of motion to break the worst gum-ups free. Another but, that leaves a nominally functional gun that is at the very edge of function in a controlled environment with a properly pre-established grip due to holster work being prohibited by indoor range rules. Hiking a mile through snow, crossing a brook, nursing a second degree burn on the web of the thumb, just recovering from three weeks of pneumonia, and drawing to low ready from a vest with the sung glare in one's unshaded eyes is not a controlled environment but is a realistic one.

The LCR had zero issues while shooting three cylinders worth of six month old carry ammo and the oldest speed strip ammo from five to thirty yards as drawn from my pocket with some lint fuzz softening the front sight for the first couple shots. The trigger wasn't as smooth as usual and got a drop of oil worked in the hammer pin hole when I got home. Then straight back into its pocket holster.



1. Tap-Rack my eye, I slammed the magazine baseplate hard enough to leave an impression in the heel of my hand which was still visible after the string of fire and "racked" like I was trying to tear the entire slide off the end of the rails, leaving traces of my epidermis visible in the serrations.

[feudist]

I feel your frustration.
The very use case that the small pocket autos excel at in employment(very close range, from the pocket, likely one hand only) is where they are least reliable.
I've run through a variety over the years including two P3ATs, a P32, an LCP and currently two LCP IIs and a Lite rack.
All were finicky and very subject to malfs induced by less than perfect grips.
The Lite Rack is reliable with MiniMags only, and is haunted by the occasional misfire.
It's interesting that the click is plainly audible through ear plugs and headphones...

[RustWins]

Yep. Here's how my pocket/roamer gun journey went.

Started with a 38 LCR. It worked well but I hated shooting it. Went to a p32. Carried well, shot well but I couldn't trust it. I got a NAA pug next. It's crazy light and the Hamre forge grips have a great pocket clip setup but shooting it leaves a lot to be desired. I still have the pug but I acquired a 43c snub in 22lr. Only 1 oz heavier than the p32 and more reliable, but it's still a bit hard to shoot and it's difficult to trust 22lr, even the well regarded federal punch.


I also bought a 432 to accommodate my 43c, because I always wanted a 32 snub, and since I had decided that j frames were going to be a staple of my EDC, I wanted something with a little more oomph as it were. It's a lovely gun, but just too heavy for the pocket. I was blessed to find a LNIB 332-1 online recently and I've finally found the best roamer gun of all time. The 332 is lighter fully loaded than the 432 is empty, even after ditching the heavy VZ grips the 432 came with. I haven't shot my 332 yet but I'm sure it will be similar to my 432. I'll probably find a hardcast 32 long loading but I'll try some of the 32 mag stuff as well. My primary mode of carry for this thing is AIWB with the new AFR grips from Hamre forge, but I'll throw it in a pocket when needed and I have a Harrys icon 2 that works with the grips too.

Weight is always more of a concern for me than bulk, so even though the 332 is slightly heavier and quite a bit more bulky than a p32, I'm okay with it, especially as it permits me more modes of carry with the HF grips. I tried the clip draw with the p32 and it was almost impossible to get a clean draw because of how flat the pistol is. Using a stretchy belt from arcade, I can dig in with my hand and access the j frame with just a bit more effort and concentration than what is required with a proper holster.

It's taken me about 15 years to get to this point of my carry journey, and between a 332 and an rxm I'm going to pick up, I really don't need much else. The PUG is certainly a keeper, and I'll have a place for my 43c and 432 for sure, although I wouldn't hesitate to part with both of them if I find another 332. I obviously can't exactly recommend the same route for everyone because the 332 is discontinued, but a snubbie of any type with the Hamre forge AFR grips and a stretchy belt is carry perfection in my mind.

[BillSWPA]

As a big fan of the kel-Tec P-32 and P3AT, one of the few flaws in the design is the big open space in the back of the slide for the hammer. This space is a lint trap, admitting lint into various parts of the interior, including but not limited to the frame/slide interface and hammer spring area. The trigger area is also a lint trap.

A well-designed pocket gun should not provide any easy access to lint. Access to the hammer is not necessary to operate a P-32, P3AT or LCP. There is no reason not to extend the slide and the back of the frame back another 1/16 inch and cover the hammer.

[Navin Johnson]

OP: An SME on PF (legit but can’t remember who) said in classes the little autos very frequently choked after the first round. He gave no explanation that I recall. He is a revolver for pocket guy. I have G42 I have been playing with but random shit happens

I was in a LGS looking at a SW BG 2.0 and friendly counter guy was telling me how much easier it was to clear a malfunction on a semi auto than a revolver. So after thinking about it even though I have many more rounds through a semi…..I have never had a problem with a revolver that prevented me from finishing a string. (Yes I know how revolvers work and they get dirty)

[SwampDweller]

OP: An SME on PF (legit but can’t remember who) said in classes the little autos very frequently choked after the first round. He gave no explanation that I recall. He is a revolver for pocket guy. I have G42 I have been playing with but random shit happens

I was in a LGS looking at a SW BG 2.0 and friendly counter guy was telling me how much easier it was to clear a malfunction on a semi auto than a revolver. So after thinking about it even though I have many more rounds through a semi…..I have never had a problem with a revolver that prevented me from finishing a string. (Yes I know how revolvers work and they get dirty)

Chuck Haggard has said that a couple of times IIRC.

[WobblyPossum]

Chuck Haggard has said that a couple of times IIRC.

That was my guess too. I remember him talking about it on a podcast.

[Tannhauser]

As a big fan of the kel-Tec P-32 and P3AT, one of the few flaws in the design is the big open space in the back of the slide for the hammer. This space is a lint trap, admitting lint into various parts of the interior, including but not limited to the frame/slide interface and hammer spring area. The trigger area is also a lint trap.

A well-designed pocket gun should not provide any easy access to lint. Access to the hammer is not necessary to operate a P-32, P3AT or LCP. There is no reason not to extend the slide and the back of the frame back another 1/16 inch and cover the hammer.

I completely agree.

I have a couple of LCPs and a G42 that I use for pocket or ankle carry. After two weeks of carry, I will take them down for a cleaning. This is probably on the paranoid side for a mousegun, but I'm very aware of how my pistols run very well when clean and well lubed, and they are operating within a narrow window.

Something like a M&P9 Compact or G19, I'll do a maintenance cleaning every 6ish months.

There are definite tradeoffs with a mousegun, and shootability isn't the only one.

[BillSWPA]

I completely agree.

I have a couple of LCPs and a G42 that I use for pocket or ankle carry. After two weeks of carry, I will take them down for a cleaning. This is probably on the paranoid side for a mousegun, but I'm very aware of how my pistols run very well when clean and well lubed, and they are operating within a narrow window.

Something like a M&P9 Compact or G19, I'll do a maintenance cleaning every 6ish months.

There are definite tradeoffs with a mousegun, and shootability isn't the only one.

For the LCP that 2 week cleaning is necessary. For the Glock, it is certainly a good practice, but I would bet the inside had less lint than the LCP when you took it apart.

[Tannhauser]

For the LCP that 2 week cleaning is necessary. For the Glock, it is certainly a good practice, but I would bet the inside had less lint than the LCP when you took it apart.

After only two weeks, LCP or G42 are still very clean. My chosen schedule just puts me way ahead of any buildup of pocket crud.

There was a time when I cleaned them much less regularly, and I can say the LCP was always much more of a crud collector.

[WDR]

Despite a fair amount of pocket lint, I don't recall either of my P-32's ever jamming when fired "straight from the pocket"... I did take the time to blow them out with canned air once in a while, and cleaned and lightly relubed them fairly often. I have not carried my LCP .22 enough to say if it will have the same reliability.

That said, I think an enclosed mechanism like a Centennial J-Frame will fair better with pocket debris vs any auto. And both have their place.

[Doc_Glock]

As a data point I always pocket an LCP Max. Loaded with 11 ball. I keep it totally dry. Every 6-12 months I will go to the range, draw it as it is and it never fails to discharge all 11. I blow off the dust and reload and re pocket. I love this thing.

My experience with the LCP mirrors the OP. They kinda suck.

LCR and J Frame are just too big and heavy IMO.

[RustWins]

As a data point I always pocket an LCP Max. Loaded with 11 ball. I keep it totally dry. Every 6-12 months I will go to the range, draw it as it is and it never fails to discharge all 11. I blow off the dust and reload and re pocket. I love this thing.

My experience with the LCP mirrors the OP. They kinda suck.



LCR and J Frame are just too big and heavy IMO.

I can't find the loaded weight of the lcp max but I'd imagine that it's heavier than the 12.5oz loaded LCP. A 43C/351pd is 11.5 oz loaded, and I'd much rather have that than an LCP of any stripe. The new 32 mag LCR will probably be around 15oz loaded and the new 432/632 with a titanium cylinder will probably be around 14.5 oz loaded. Still a bit larger but with the proper pants it'll work fine.

[4RNR]

An example of one. I have the LCP "Custom" I bought used about a decade ago. It is only for quick and casual trips. Run to the store, walk the dog, answer the door, have a contractor stop by.... So its not used that much but it has had plenty of use in the 10 years that Ive owned it. As well as about half a case, 2 mags at a time. I have never taken it apart. I take it to the range every two months or so and put a few mags through it.

Recently I have been debating on getting the new Bodyguard

[Doc_Glock]

I can't find the loaded weight of the lcp max but I'd imagine that it's heavier than the 12.5oz loaded LCP. A 43C/351pd is 11.5 oz loaded, and I'd much rather have that than an LCP of any stripe. The new 32 mag LCR will probably be around 15oz loaded and the new 432/632 with a titanium cylinder will probably be around 14.5 oz loaded. Still a bit larger but with the proper pants it'll work fine.

15.2 oz loaded with 11 rounds with Holster. 14.1oz without holster.

[RustWins]

15.2 oz loaded with 11 rounds with Holster. 14.1oz without holster.

Thanks, that puts things into perspective. So about the same weight as a standard J, but with twice as many BBs at the cost of potential reliability issues. I scored a major win recently with a 332-1 J in 32 mag which is 13oz loaded. I say this in every thread so bear with me if I'm repeating myself but having the Hamre Forge AFR clip grip is an awesome addition which makes the J frame an extremely flexible "roamer" gun. I can even use a Harrys icon 2 if I want a proper holster. I don't typically use a pocket holster and I limit pocket carry to when it is needed so it works out very well and gives me plenty of options.

[KevH]

There is a reason lots of us prefer the Centennial model Smiths (or LCR's now too I guess) for pocket carry. They tend to just work...and work...and work.

After about 18 years of carrying one I will say you do need to clean out the lint, holster or no holster, every few months. If you sweat a lot you will need to detail strip it more often. I've had them get sluggish, but I have never had one misfire or jam on me.

As for the LCP, I have a few coworkers that love them, but I could never personally warm up to them and I have "issues" when it comes to relying on 380 ACP based upon things I have witnessed. I just trust 38 Special much more.

[feudist]

That was my guess too. I remember him talking about it on a podcast.

He's stated it on at least a couple of P&S podcasts.
He asserts that even if they are range reliable, if they are carried a while and then shot as carried on the range they will have a disturbing number of second shot stoppages. I believe the context for this was when he conducts ballistic testing seminars, attendees will draw their carry piece and fire it as is into gelatin to test their carry load.
Presumably, these guns have been carried loaded for days/weeks and are shot cold, as opposed to the likely common practice of going to the range, unloading carry ammo(cycling the slide several times) and then loading fresh ball in a training magazine.
If that is indeed the difference, it's a pretty thin margin of reliability to start a FUT with...

[Buckeye63]

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Some of my pocket carry guns .. the LCR357 mostly is carried OWB
The small / light P-32 and LCP is pocket carried often.
The 642 & 85 NV are my most pocket carried revolvers ..

[Duelist]

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Some of my pocket carry guns .. the LCR357 mostly is carried OWB
The small / light P-32 and LCP is pocket carried often.
The 642 & 85 NV are my most pocket carried revolvers ..

Clever pocket magazine holder! Like that.

[Joshmill]

^^^^^ LIKE!

[Paul Blackburn]

A former LGS range had a decent selection of rental guns. I was told numerous times that the LCR's were shot a lot and just kept working. However it was quite common for other rentals to be unavailable because they had to be sent back to the manufacturer for repairs.

[Joe S]

A former LGS range had a decent selection of rental guns. I was told numerous times that the LCR's were shot a lot and just kept working. However it was quite common for other rentals to be unavailable because they had to be sent back to the manufacturer for repairs.

I think GJM had said at some point that Rogers' school were shooting the crap out of .22 and 9mm LCRs for their revolver classes and found them very durable and used friendly. If there is someone I trust to run something really hard within the realm of reason, it would be them.

[Paul Blackburn]

I think GJM had said at some point that Rogers' school were shooting the crap out of .22 and 9mm LCRs for their revolver classes and found them very durable and used friendly. If there is someone I trust to run something really hard within the realm of reason, it would be them.

Speaking of the Rogers School, having tried a few LCR grips, I have found the Rogers LCR Grip to be the best compromise. What I mean by that is its not the most concealable, not the most comfortable in the hand, but out of the holster at speed I land/acquire the most consistent hand placement that just puts the sights dead on target with my natural point of aim.

[awp_101]

https://youtu.be/GKcQUZYA_go?si=HdALwBc07WVh0u7j

[Sasage]

https://youtu.be/GKcQUZYA_go?si=HdALwBc07WVh0u7j

Eyeing a 442 so I’ll give this a watch.

[Paul Blackburn]

Here's my modified Darkstar Gear LCR Apollo. It provides concealment, quick access with perfect hand placement, and is so comfortable its hardly noticeable it there.


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