Cartoon Guns must sell pretty well...

[Tensaw]

Sigh,... why does Mossberg keep doing this? I know, I know, they are in business to make money, not necessarily guns, but still. This thing has an MSRP of almost $1,200! Who in their right mind would buy this abomination over an A300? I guess they are selling though. Just, wow... I have an 835 that I actually really like. With just a little more fine tuning and QC, that thing seems like it could be battle-worthy. But I think I would just about rather take a sharp stick to a fight rather than this thing pictured below. It's like all the derp got mashed into one gun.

128010

[mtnbkr]

Sigh,... why does Mossberg keep doing this? I know, I know, they are in business to make money, not necessarily guns, but still. This thing has an MSRP of almost $1,200! Who in their right mind would buy this abomination over an A300? I guess they are selling though. Just, wow... I have an 835 that I actually really like. With just a little more fine tuning and QC, that thing seems like it could be battle-worthy. But I think I would just about rather take a sharp stick to a fight rather than this thing pictured below. It's like all the derp got mashed into one gun.

Why does it need to be "battle worthy" or be taken to a "fight"? Why can't it merely exist for the joy of shooting an abomination?

I have no use for it, but some guy or girl ('cause I know a woman who would buy this thing and enjoy the heck out of it) buying and shooting this won't prevent me from buying something "battle worthy", whatever that means.

Chris

[fatdog]

other than the barrel shield I can observe not one single desirable or modestly useful feature (to me) on that abomination, ugh!

[HeavyDuty]

Better than the ones they did with the chainsaw handle.

[Trooper224]

Because, some people buy things just because they think they're cool.
Because, some people just shoot for fun.
Because the company recognizes demographics, other the the trapist monk gunfighter/gamer and caters to them.

And that's all okay.

Not my thing, but it's not hard to figure out.

[Tensaw]

Better than the ones they did with the chainsaw handle.

And that is one I had in mind when I said that Mossberg "keeps on doing this."

For those who say that not every gun has to be for a serious purpose, okay - fair enough. But you gotta think there are some folks who will plunk down hard-earned money for this thing thinking that they have now obtained a serious home defense weapon. It just seems to me that if Mossberg could focus their considerable resources on making *better* guns/making their guns better, they would be doing themselves, and their customers, a favor.

ETA: For what it is worth, this gun shows up as the third listing under the section of "Security Firearms" (along with the Chainsaw version of the Shockwave...) - so while you can say this is merely a fun gun/range toy, Mossberg certainly is not marketing it that way. Of course, they also show the image below on that same page...

128013

[RevolverRob]

For real - for real - that AR-style safety is a legit upgrade over most shotgun safeties. Cross bolts and sliding tang safeties suck.

[MandoWookie]

Okay, so I am not well versed in shotguns, haven't taken classes yet, but other than looks, what about this is so nonfunctional or goofy? How is it all that different than an 870 with a Mesa Tactical stock kit?
The safety is a major upgrade for me, as I hate the tang safety.
The mags? They make a regular tube feed version too it looks like.

It looks goofy? It looks way less goofy to me than that LTT1301 with the weird stock. It just looks like Mossberg put together what people have been doing with 870s for decades.

[TCinVA]

For real - for real - that AR-style safety is a legit upgrade over most shotgun safeties. Cross bolts and sliding tang safeties suck.

I want to see how it actually works to see if it's genuinely better or just a different placement for the same old concept.

Either way, it will probably suck unless you're using a pistol grip...which I don't want on any of my shotguns.

[TCinVA]

Okay, so I am not well versed in shotguns, haven't taken classes yet, but other than looks, what about this is so nonfunctional or goofy?

All of the modifications are based on the use of a pistol grip on the shotgun.

Pistol grips are a pretty terrible idea on a shotgun because they load recoil into the hand, specifically the thumb joint of the hand.

There's nothing "tactical" about having a pistol grip on a shotgun. In the old days when practically every gun shipped had a more traditional stock that has a wrist angle that kind of sucks for holding on to the gun with a single hand, the pistol grip had some utility. Magpul pretty much fixed that with their SGA.

But to the general public, pistol grip means "tactical" and so the general public keeps buying them even if they're fucking stupid.

The safety doesn't look too bad. I have a feeling it's just a rotating knob on the same sort of safety arrangement which would probably be an improvement over the usual Mossberg safety...but time will tell.

They have engineered the back end of the gun to match the sight to bore relationship of the AR, which introduces height over bore concerns on a gun that previously didn't have one.



It looks goofy?


It looks goofy if you actually know what you're looking at due to having some idea of how to set up a good defensive shotgun.

You'll note that the people who are most skilled with a defensive shotgun have not been campaigning for pistol grip setups.

[TCinVA]

And that is one I had in mind when I said that Mossberg "keeps on doing this."

For those who say that not every gun has to be for a serious purpose, okay - fair enough. But you gotta think there are some folks who will plunk down hard-earned money for this thing thinking that they have now obtained a serious home defense weapon. It just seems to me that if Mossberg could focus their considerable resources on making *better* guns/making their guns better, they would be doing themselves, and their customers, a favor.

ETA: For what it is worth, this gun shows up as the third listing under the section of "Security Firearms" (along with the Chainsaw version of the Shockwave...) - so while you can say this is merely a fun gun/range toy, Mossberg certainly is not marketing it that way. Of course, they also show the image below on that same page...

128013

This is clearly intended to be a police/defense shotgun.

"Make it look and kind of work like an AR" is a decent marketing strategy for that given how few police and how few members of the public have any meaningful experience with shotguns at this point. For police agencies, the more commonalities you can get with a weapon they're already being trained on (like the patrol rifle) the better because it's one less thing that has to be addressed in training.

That will override anything I would worry about, but nobody has me making purchasing decisions for police departments and military units.

[MandoWookie]

You'll note that the people who are most skilled with a defensive shotgun have not been campaigning for pistol grip setups.

See that was where the confusion started for me. Because I recalled not long ago folks ooing & aaahing over the LTT Chisel stock, seen plenty of folks using the Mesa Tactical Urbino or AR stock adapter kits, on here & elsewhere.
So at 1st blush this Mossberg actually looked like a good setup for a pistol grip shotgun, something that prior it was completely unsuitable for due to safety location.
It also made the mag fed version look a lot more appealing.

[MandoWookie]

This is clearly intended to be a police/defense shotgun.

"Make it look and kind of work like an AR" is a decent marketing strategy for that given how few police and how few members of the public have any meaningful experience with shotguns at this point. For police agencies, the more commonalities you can get with a weapon they're already being trained on (like the patrol rifle) the better because it's one less thing that has to be addressed in training.

That will override anything I would worry about, but nobody has me making purchasing decisions for police departments and military units.


That's probably why it's so appealing to me too. I've got way more rounds & familiarity with my ARs(not enough to be really competent, but definitely more comfortable) than my 870. As a complete shotgun novice, it's definitely more approachable in this configuration.

[TCinVA]

See that was where the confusion started for me. Because I recalled not long ago folks ooing & aaahing over the LTT Chisel stock,

Chisel makes some excellent stuff for precision rifles. Of the pistol-gripped stock options on the market, theirs is by far the best...but I still have no use for a pistol gripped stock on my shotgun.

People who sell things are in business to sell things. All things being sold, however, are not necessarily the best possible thing one can have.



seen plenty of folks using the Mesa Tactical Urbino or AR stock adapter kits, on here & elsewhere.


Sure. Lots of people buy them even though they're a bad idea because lots of people have no idea what they are actually buying or why. A lot of people think pistol gripped stock setups are "tactical" for precisely the reasons I described above even though that thought is outdated and irrelevant.



So at 1st blush this Mossberg actually looked like a good setup for a pistol grip shotgun, something that prior it was completely unsuitable for due to safety location.
It also made the mag fed version look a lot more appealing.

The mossberg box magazine for a shotgun is still just as terrible an idea as it was before this revision to the back half of the gun.

[MandoWookie]

.



The mossberg box magazine for a shotgun is still just as terrible an idea as it was before this revision to the back half of the gun.

Do the mags not work? On the standard 590 they look awkward, & when I've handled them in stores I'm always surprised by how chunky they are.
But like I said, they look more appropriate on this setup, so that caused me to wonder if they were actually a usable upgrade over the tube instead of just dismissing them like I did before.

[CleverNickname]

I really wish Genesis Arms would find a way to lower the price on the Gen-12. It seems to be the best AR-format shotgun out there, but at $3k it's just too expensive for most people.

[ragnar_d]

I want to see how it actually works to see if it's genuinely better or just a different placement for the same old concept.

Either way, it will probably suck unless you're using a pistol grip...which I don't want on any of my shotguns.
The gun geek/engineer in me really wants to see that too. A still born program I worked on was trying to make a cross bolt safety work with an AR type FCG in a traditional style rifle, I'm guessing this is the opposite of using a traditional shotgun FCG with the rotary safety.


"Make it look and kind of work like an AR" is a decent marketing strategy for that given how few police and how few members of the public have any meaningful experience with shotguns at this point. For police agencies, the more commonalities you can get with a weapon they're already being trained on (like the patrol rifle) the better because it's one less thing that has to be addressed in training.
Funny how the world keeps evolving. I remember the 7615 coming out at the beginning of the adoption patrol rifles to try and sell departments on keeping maintain a similar manual of arms to the 870 that was in just about every patrol car in the country at that point.

[DDTSGM]

As several have mentioned, Mossberg makes several iterations of the 590R (wonder what the R stands for, Rotary safety?) the one in the OP's photo is a 590RM - Stand-Off (M = magazine fed) with an 18.5" fixed choke stand-off barrel.

The 590R is the plain- jane magazine tube version with an 18.5" Accu-Choke barrel. It's below:

128018

It was noted in another post that the shotgun has been designed to replicate same sight to bore distance as the AR. While that is detrimental to a regular shotgun, IF you are working with folks who are coming from the AR world it isn't as much a detriment.

Based on the pin locations in the receiver and the location of the AR-style rotary safety, it is probably not a 'new' per se, rather just designed to work the disconnector from below rather than with a safety bar from above - that's my guess.

Like many folks, I don't like AR- style stocks on shotguns, but obviously Mossberg noted something that I've seen folks and agencies overlook when equipping shotguns - the tang safety sucks for use with a pistole grip stock. So kudos to Mossberg for addressing that. Likewise, safety location for AR users will be easy to transition to with little/no hassle. (From pics I'd guess its equivalent to a 60 degree short throw safety)

Fair and balanced aside, I wouldn't have the magazine version up my rear if I had room for a sawmill, but would probably think about a tubed version at $500.00, just for fun.

[HeavyDuty]

I really am not a fan of pistol gripped shotguns, but there is something strangely appealing about this tubular version - like a futuristic cruiser shotgun.

https://www.mossberg.com/media/catalog/product/cache/e481e64536a684f69707b47f11cbf51f/5/0/50761_mossberg_590r_7shot_standoff_2700x650_1_.jpg

[Tensaw]

I think I would argue that most folks would be happier, and better served, with the example below. Throw a Magpul stock on there and go have fun/do work - whichever is your thing - for less money than the pistol-gripped things. I do wonder if that rotary safety might not gee-haw with the SGA...

128019

[Tensaw]

I really am not a fan of pistol gripped shotguns, but there is something strangely appealing about this tubular version - like a futuristic cruiser shotgun.

https://www.mossberg.com/media/catalog/product/cache/e481e64536a684f69707b47f11cbf51f/5/0/50761_mossberg_590r_7shot_standoff_2700x650_1_.jpg

You gonna need one of them Unity 1.96 mounts to go on that thing... :D

[RevolverRob]

I hope this ends up having a firing pin safety worked in as part of the redesign of the back half.

[Shotgun]

other than the barrel shield I can observe not one single desirable or modestly useful feature (to me) on that abomination, ugh!

What about the breaching serrations at the muzzle? Gotta have breaching serrations on your home defense shotgun.

[HeavyDuty]

What about the breaching serrations at the muzzle? Gotta have breaching serrations on your home defense shotgun.

Avon calling!

[Tensaw]

I hope this ends up having a firing pin safety worked in as part of the redesign of the back half.

Meaning that this would render the gun drop safe? I guess a feller can dream... (*That* would be a step forward!)

[TCinVA]

Based on the pin locations in the receiver and the location of the AR-style rotary safety, it is probably not a 'new' per se, rather just designed to work the disconnector from below rather than with a safety bar from above - that's my guess.


Mine, too.

[DDTSGM]

Just saw this one in my email feed, it was in an ad from AimSurplus:

128024

Perfect example of a manufacturer putting special doodads on a shotgun without input from anyone with relevant experience.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

While I see no use for the serrations in front for me (nor a pistol grip), of course an anecdote is important. A good friend of mine was walking on his place in the hill country. He was carrying a pistol grip pump. Walking through the brush, a big old pig charged him. Surprised and close, he punched the big in the snout with the barrel of the gun and it ran away. So maybe serrations would help - LOL. He later changed to a regular stock. I know several people who ate a pistol grip by bringing it to eye level, naively (ahem and two others, one quite well known). I was naive then, first time with that sort. 30 years ago.

[beenalongtime]

Anyone have one from Acme? Trying to get a road runner.:p

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Since cars are weapons, I have actually run over a road runner. It was on a TX highway. It landed in front of the car next to me. It saw it and hopped in front of mine. There was a thump and explosion of feathers. Adios.

[gato naranja]

Who in their right mind would buy this abomination...

"No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."
- H.L. Mencken

H.L. was probably only marginally less impressed with human beings in general than I have become as I near my three-score and ten. Anyone on this forum who has ever been "the gun guy" for a group - be it work, church, social, etc - has probably been serially appalled and/or amused by what people want or think they need.

Mossberg firearms tend to be aesthetically challenged; it is in their DNA from as far back as I can remember. By way of contrast, Remington has offered a number of 870 variants that were no less "cartoonish" WRT features, but (by-and-large) they usually didn't desecrate the landscape when pulled out of the case.

As for the features, I really can't say this offering appeals to me, because the more extra stuff there is on a shotgun, the less I like using it. Mileage may vary.

[TCinVA]

Do the mags not work? On the standard 590 they look awkward, & when I've handled them in stores I'm always surprised by how chunky they are.

The box magazine for a defensive pump action shotgun is another attempt to answer the complaint that the pump action shotgun is not an AR15. The shotgun doesn't need to be an AR15. It's a different weapon and the primary problem it's had in use anywhere other than perhaps infantry combat has not been that it lacks sufficient capacity to handle the business it's intended to handle. It takes repeated application to achieve the intended results with pretty much all other weapons commonly used for close range combat, but generally a single round from a shotgun reliably stops a threat.

This is discussed at length in this thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?50413-Shotgun-Capacity-in-Real-World-Use

Those (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?50413-Shotgun-Capacity-in-Real-World-UseThose) big, blocky magazines do not address a real issue with capacity. They don't really address confusion with manual of arms terribly well either because the magazines don't go into and out of the gun like an AR-15, nor does the gun they're going into and out of function anything like an AR-15. They accomplish that feat at the cost of actually useful shotgun manipulations like the ability to top off the gun as you go or to swap ammunition on the fly. You could certainly switch magazines to get another munition...if you were carrying one. Which nobody would be because who the fuck is carrying two of those magazines?

We have some folks here who have actually used tube fed shotguns in real infantry combat. I'll leave it to them to theorize on the utility of that box magazine fed gun for their application vs. the traditional tube.

Something like the Genesis semi-autos I can see utility in for defensive application...but a box magazine fed pump action shotgun seems to be a similar idea to a semi-automatic revolver.

[Borderland]

There's no accounting for tastes in women's clothing or SD shotguns.

Mossberg ought to be bitch slapped for building something like that.

[sharps54]

There's no accounting for tastes in women's clothing or SD shotguns.

Mossberg ought to be bitch slapped for building something like that.

Although if, and it is a big if, the new safety makes it drop safe there might be something salvageable in the tube fed models.

[03RN]

I actually don't hate it. I think it looks pretty useful.

Will I buy one? Probably not.

[03RN]

"No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."
- H.L. Mencken

H.L. was probably only marginally less impressed with human beings in general than I have become as I near my three-score and ten. Anyone on this forum who has ever been "the gun guy" for a group - be it work, church, social, etc - has probably been serially appalled and/or amused by what people want or think they need.

Mossberg firearms tend to be aesthetically challenged; it is in their DNA from as far back as I can remember. By way of contrast, Remington has offered a number of 870 variants that were no less "cartoonish" WRT features, but (by-and-large) they usually didn't desecrate the landscape when pulled out of the case.

As for the features, I really can't say this offering appeals to me, because the more extra stuff there is on a shotgun, the less I like using it. Mileage may vary.

Mossberg makes some stupid things but I think their basic 18" wood stocked gun looks better than an 870. And 590s all look like tits to me too.

[03RN]

The box magazine for a defensive pump action shotgun is another attempt to answer the complaint that the pump action shotgun is not an AR15. The shotgun doesn't need to be an AR15. It's a different weapon and the primary problem it's had in use anywhere other than perhaps infantry combat has not been that it lacks sufficient capacity to handle the business it's intended to handle. It takes repeated application to achieve the intended results with pretty much all other weapons commonly used for close range combat, but generally a single round from a shotgun reliably stops a threat.

This is discussed at length in this thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?50413-Shotgun-Capacity-in-Real-World-Use

Those (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?50413-Shotgun-Capacity-in-Real-World-UseThose) big, blocky magazines do not address a real issue with capacity. They don't really address confusion with manual of arms terribly well either because the magazines don't go into and out of the gun like an AR-15, nor does the gun they're going into and out of function anything like an AR-15. They accomplish that feat at the cost of actually useful shotgun manipulations like the ability to top off the gun as you go or to swap ammunition on the fly. You could certainly switch magazines to get another munition...if you were carrying one. Which nobody would be because who the fuck is carrying two of those magazines?

We have some folks here who have actually used tube fed shotguns in real infantry combat. I'll leave it to them to theorize on the utility of that box magazine fed gun for their application vs. the traditional tube.

Something like the Genesis semi-autos I can see utility in for defensive application...but a box magazine fed pump action shotgun seems to be a similar idea to a semi-automatic revolver.
People lose their mind over capacity. It's unfortunate because it's their loser mindset. My shotguns are not 5-8 round guns. They're infinite guns.

I shot 100 rounds through my Benelli today. I never once ran the magazine dry .

[Bigghoss]

Anyone else remember when FN did this?

https://ammoterra.com/system/images/images/000/041/857/original/ca2d3d61a06dd0c4a676e8687bc1422b.png?1603194558

[Mercworx]

Why does it need to be "battle worthy" or be taken to a "fight"? Why can't it merely exist for the joy of shooting an abomination?

I have no use for it, but some guy or girl ('cause I know a woman who would buy this thing and enjoy the heck out of it) buying and shooting this won't prevent me from buying something "battle worthy", whatever that means.

Chris




Got my eyes set on a Henry lever action supreme for this reason.

[TCinVA]

Anyone else remember when FN did this?

https://ammoterra.com/system/images/images/000/041/857/original/ca2d3d61a06dd0c4a676e8687bc1422b.png?1603194558

I've seen one in class. It worked.

I don't like the A2 grip on an AR. Turns out it's even worse on a shotgun.

[Erick Gelhaus]

For real - for real - that AR-style safety is a legit upgrade over most shotgun safeties. Cross bolts and sliding tang safeties suck.

Having shot the model with the rotating safety, I really like the idea. What it is derived from is a very solid design.

[MDFA]

Sticking with my Ultima Patrol and 870 SBS thanks...

[RevolverRob]

Having shot the model with the rotating safety, I really like the idea. What it is derived from is a very solid design.

TBH - I think it's a smart idea overall and tackles what is possibly the single weakest aspect of most shotguns. The top-tang safety Mossberg uses is better than a crossbolt, and is my preference for a traditionally stocked gun, but still isn't ideal.

And I get that the crossbolt works well with a traditional stock, for off-safing, but I dislike having to break the weak hand off the gun or seriously break the shooting hand off the grip to re-safe. I know we can argue, "This is a training issue." Sure, it is, it's also an ergonomics issue. And it is simply absent when using almost any of the various ARs, SMG-pattern PCCs, or even a pistol.

___

Things I don't care for on this gun - the odd decision to use AR sight-radius. I get the reasoning why - but that seems absolutely silly to me. If I acquire one of these (and I'm actually looking at it quite hard). Mine would lose that silly heat shield, get nice front sight, a CROM-style plate with a dot on it. And then just to piss people off, I'd probably use Woox wooden stock, pistol grip, and their M590 forend. Because I'm a d-bag who likes to mix it all up and irritate - everyone.

ETA: And if I get one, maybe I'll get the mag fed just to irritate everyone else I haven't pissed off.

[03RN]

TBH - I think it's a smart idea overall and tackles what is possibly the single weakest aspect of most shotguns. The top-tang safety Mossberg uses is better than a crossbolt, and is my preference for a traditionally stocked gun, but still isn't ideal.

And I get that the crossbolt works well with a traditional stock, for off-safing, but I dislike having to break the weak hand off the gun or seriously break the shooting hand off the grip to re-safe. I know we can argue, "This is a training issue." Sure, it is, it's also an ergonomics issue. And it is simply absent when using almost any of the various ARs, SMG-pattern PCCs, or even a pistol.

___

Things I don't care for on this gun - the odd decision to use AR sight-radius. I get the reasoning why - but that seems absolutely silly to me. If I acquire one of these (and I'm actually looking at it quite hard). Mine would lose that silly heat shield, get nice front sight, a CROM-style plate with a dot on it. And then just to piss people off, I'd probably use Woox wooden stock, pistol grip, and their M590 forend. Because I'm a d-bag who likes to mix it all up and irritate - everyone.

ETA: And if I get one, maybe I'll get the mag fed just to irritate everyone else I haven't pissed off.

Fwiw the SAW has a crossbolt safety

[Tensaw]

Things I don't care for on this gun - the odd decision to use AR sight-radius. I get the reasoning why - but that seems absolutely silly to me. If I acquire one of these (and I'm actually looking at it quite hard). Mine would lose that silly heat shield, get nice front sight, a CROM-style plate with a dot on it. And then just to piss people off, I'd probably use Woox wooden stock, pistol grip, and their M590 forend. Because I'm a d-bag who likes to mix it all up and irritate - everyone.

ETA: And if I get one, maybe I'll get the mag fed just to irritate everyone else I haven't pissed off.

Please post up pics (in this thread maybe) when you get 'er all built out - so we can point and laugh. :D

[Bigghoss]

I've seen one in class. It worked.

I don't like the A2 grip on an AR. Turns out it's even worse on a shotgun.

For as much as those things cost back in the day it had better work. I think they were even more than the 590r is now and that was 20 years ago. It's just a Winchester 1300 with AR stuff on it.

[ragnar_d]

Things I don't care for on this gun - the odd decision to use AR sight-radius. I get the reasoning why - but that seems absolutely silly to me. If I acquire one of these (and I'm actually looking at it quite hard). Mine would lose that silly heat shield, get nice front sight, a CROM-style plate with a dot on it. And then just to piss people off, I'd probably use Woox wooden stock, pistol grip, and their M590 forend. Because I'm a d-bag who likes to mix it all up and irritate - everyone.

ETA: And if I get one, maybe I'll get the mag fed just to irritate everyone else I haven't pissed off.
As someone who considered getting a pink zombie hydrodipped VersaMax for 3-gun because it was stupid cheap and I don't take myself all that seriously, I wholeheartedly approve of these shenanigans. :cool:

[GearFondler]

Another problem with 12g box mags is that if they are left loaded over time the spring pressure can deform the plastic shell casings creating oval shells that don't feed properly. Apparently the Russians solved that issue by using brass sleeves instead of plastic but that's not really a solution that helps anyone here.
This isn't an issue for a field gun that doesn't sit around loaded all the time but it is for a duty/HD weapon.

[Tensaw]

Another problem with 12g box mags is that if they are left loaded over time the spring pressure can deform the plastic shell casings creating oval shells that don't feed properly. Apparently the Russians solved that issue by using brass sleeves instead of plastic but that's not really a solution that helps anyone here.
This isn't an issue for a field gun that doesn't sit around loaded all the time but it is for a duty/HD weapon.

Well, I mean, let's face it... That thing I posted at the top of this thread is the squatted truck of firearms.

[Chuck Whitlock]

...seen plenty of folks using the Mesa Tactical Urbino or AR stock adapter kits, on here & elsewhere.



...but I still have no use for a pistol gripped stock on my shotgun.

Lots of people buy them even though they're a bad idea because lots of people have no idea what they are actually buying or why. A lot of people think pistol gripped stock setups are "tactical" for precisely the reasons I described above even though that thought is outdated and irrelevant.

TCinVA,

I put an Urbino stock on my M1S90, not so much for the pistol grip as for the reduced LOP. The SGA is obviously a no-go. What would you recommend for this gun?

I kinda thought that the pistol grip worked well with push-pull. What am I missing? I'd like to get 03RN 's take as well.

[Chuck Whitlock]

...seen plenty of folks using the Mesa Tactical Urbino or AR stock adapter kits, on here & elsewhere.



...but I still have no use for a pistol gripped stock on my shotgun.

Lots of people buy them even though they're a bad idea because lots of people have no idea what they are actually buying or why. A lot of people think pistol gripped stock setups are "tactical" for precisely the reasons I described above even though that thought is outdated and irrelevant.

TCinVA,

I put an Urbino stock on my M1S90, not so much for the pistol grip as for the reduced LOP. The SGA is obviously a no-go. What would you recommend for this gun?

I kinda thought that the pistol grip worked well with push-pull. What am I missing? I'd like to get 03RN 's take as well.

[03RN]

TCinVA,

I put an Urbino stock on my M1S90, not so much for the pistol grip as for the reduced LOP. The SGA is obviously a no-go. What would you recommend for this gun?

I kinda thought that the pistol grip worked well with push-pull. What am I missing? I'd like to get 03RN 's take as well.

Im good with either. Doing drils I don't notice a difference but jumping over stumps and avoiding other hazards has a more negative effect on times. But also run drills with m1903s and AR15s.
Im a big believer in
128164

[SCCY Marshal]

I actually don't hate it. I think it looks pretty useful.

Will I buy one? Probably not.

If I had the scratch, I'd consider one for a 3 Gun loaner. AR safety for the newbie, practice reloads with a few reps of an empty mag, fast reloads on the clock, can paint/tape a spare mag for slugs, the heat shield will keep an AR guy from getting his fingers warm at the end of a stage being used to tubular rifle guards, and it would cause eye rolls among the serious business crowd for being a manual repeater. It would be worth the money for the last bit alone.

But I'm not rich so greenhorns can continue to borrow a 500A or share my 590.


People lose their mind over capacity. It's unfortunate because it's their loser mindset. My shotguns are not 5-8 round guns. They're infinite guns.

I shot 100 rounds through my Benelli today. I never once ran the magazine dry .

Your triple post was on a roll and ended with the best point.

[TCinVA]

@TCinVA (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=4),

I put an Urbino stock on my M1S90, not so much for the pistol grip as for the reduced LOP. The SGA is obviously a no-go. What would you recommend for this gun?

I kinda thought that the pistol grip worked well with push-pull. What am I missing? I'd like to get @03RN (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=15517) 's take as well.

I once put a pistol-gripped stock on a Beretta 1201 because it had a shorter LOP.

I don't like pistol grips on shotguns, but too long of a LOP is a worse problem to have in terms of effectively using the gun.

Of the PG stocks out there, the Urbino's rather large and squishy grip seems to help ameliorate some of the downsides of the pistol grip better than other stocks. If I were shooting that a lot, I would do so with my thumb on the right side of the grip instead of behind it in a traditional pistol style grip so as to avoid loading recoil into the basal joint of my thumb. You can still effectively push/pull that way.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Thanks for the feedback, gents.

TCinVA,

As an alternative to the SGA on 590's and 870's, what are your thoughts and/or experiences with the Hogue short stock?

https://www.hogueinc.com/remington-870-20-gauge-black-overmolded-shotgun-stock-12-l-o-p

I'd like to get my agency to retrofit our 870s, and $89-ish for a stock and overmolded forend is a pretty good deal, especially when you're talking 50+ weapons.

https://www.hogueinc.com/rem-870-overmolded-shotgun-stock-kit-w-forend-12-l-o-p

[TCinVA]

Thanks for the feedback, gents.

@TCinVA (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=4),

As an alternative to the SGA on 590's and 870's, what are your thoughts and/or experiences with the Hogue short stock?

https://www.hogueinc.com/remington-870-20-gauge-black-overmolded-shotgun-stock-12-l-o-p

I'd like to get my agency to retrofit our 870s, and $89-ish for a stock and overmolded forend is a pretty good deal, especially when you're talking 50+ weapons.

https://www.hogueinc.com/rem-870-overmolded-shotgun-stock-kit-w-forend-12-l-o-p

The Hogue is a good piece of equipment. A little too short for my preferences but I can work with it just fine.

If I was wearing body armor regularly the LOP on that would be about perfect.

[03RN]

The Hogue is a good piece of equipment. A little too short for my preferences but I can work with it just fine.

If I was wearing body armor regularly the LOP on that would be about perfect.

They used to make a 13" one for a while. It was made for a online accessory store that I forget the name of. I wish I got a few.

[Centerfire]

Sigh,... why does Mossberg keep doing this? I know, I know, they are in business to make money, not necessarily guns, but still. This thing has an MSRP of almost $1,200! Who in their right mind would buy this abomination over an A300? I guess they are selling though. Just, wow... I have an 835 that I actually really like. With just a little more fine tuning and QC, that thing seems like it could be battle-worthy. But I think I would just about rather take a sharp stick to a fight rather than this thing pictured below. It's like all the derp got mashed into one gun.

128010

That gun has most of the features I see people adding to 1301's.

[TDA]

You can still get an M1 Super 90 on gunbroker for less than the MSRP on that Mossberg. Why wouldn’t you?

More to the point, that’s a basic Mossberg tarted up with strange accessories, why would I be 3 gunning with it?

[Wes Peart]

They used to make a 13" one for a while. It was made for a online accessory store that I forget the name of. I wish I got a few.

The one you want is the Speedfeed manufactured 870 youth stock with a R3 recoil pad. Gives a hair under 13" LOP and is a great stock.

Shot over a hundred 1600fps 12ga slugs in one day with it with zero bruising, many from prone.

[ricky_bobby]

I'd like to get my agency to retrofit our 870s, and $89-ish for a stock and overmolded forend is a pretty good deal, especially when you're talking 50+ weapons.

https://www.hogueinc.com/rem-870-overmolded-shotgun-stock-kit-w-forend-12-l-o-p

I would absolutely say that is a good option to get shorter LOP for agency users wearing body armor or even if not, to keep the weapon in tight and compact as possible

The Hogue equipment is nice, durable, and light, and for 50+ weapons would be a great investment if you are keeping the 870's in rotation!

[mrozowjj]

Another problem with 12g box mags is that if they are left loaded over time the spring pressure can deform the plastic shell casings creating oval shells that don't feed properly. Apparently the Russians solved that issue by using brass sleeves instead of plastic but that's not really a solution that helps anyone here.
This isn't an issue for a field gun that doesn't sit around loaded all the time but it is for a duty/HD weapon.

That's interesting and something I never once considered about box mags and shotguns.

Kind of defeats the purpose of a box mag IMO. The benefits of the box is you can have half a dozen loaded and ready but you kind of can't if you aren't using them often.