338 ARC the 300 Blackout killer?

[5pins]

Hornady just dropped their version of the 338 Spector, the new 338 ARC. 338 sub and super in an AR platform.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oguvjVZRM28

https://www.hornady.com/338arc#!/

[Flamingo]

I am semi-interested in this. I have a 6 ARC/6.5 GDL bolt and a couple of magazines. I think this would be nice with my can (a SiCo 36M).

[Noah]

Same bolt and mags as a 6 ARC?

[TAZ]

Q and the 8.6 Blackout are not going to be very happy.


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[ccmdfd]

Q and the 8.6 Blackout are not going to be very happy.


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That was my first initial thought when I heard about it today. They're going right after the 8.6 blackout crowd

[Clusterfrack]

Hornady is the Sig of ammunition. And I mean that in both good and bad terms.

[5pins]

Same bolt and mags as a 6 ARC?

Yes.

[Cheap Shot]

https://vimeo.com/1018809991

Discusses 338 ARC vs 8.6

[Caballoflaco]

2,000 fps from a 175 grain super in a 16” barrel isn’t as slow as I thought it might be. It’s almost into .30-30 territory.

[littlejerry]

2,000 fps from a 175 grain super in a 16” barrel isn’t as slow as I thought it might be. It’s almost into .30-30 territory.

I'm sure it's better than .30-30 past 100 yards

[RealSelf]

Sounds like a blast, perfect timing? as I was just getting primed for a .300 BLK. Now I'm second guessing as this actually delivers what I want from .300 BLK.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LfqoyLIefU

[5pins]

.300 Blackout 135gr FTX
125214

30-30 160gr FTX
125215

.338 ARC 175gr Match
125216

[Tokarev]

This would probably be a fun cartridge in the AK if it would stack correctly in the magazine.

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[Tensaw]

Q's take on the .338 ARC.

https://youtu.be/67xbJvOuQiU?si=2IuvaEvJm7uzP_kY


(TLDL: They not a fan.)

[sharps54]

I don’t see a compelling reason to go with this over 300 BO for the average user. 300 BO is established, uses standard magazines, and kills deer plenty dead (with supersonic loads).

[Tokarev]

Q's take on the .338 ARC.

https://youtu.be/67xbJvOuQiU?si=2IuvaEvJm7uzP_kY


(TLDL: They not a fan.)Kevin doesn't like something he wasn't involved with?

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[Tokarev]

Here's the grandfather

https://www.sbrammunition.com/338-Spectre_c_26.html

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[5pins]

Here's the grandfather

https://www.sbrammunition.com/338-Spectre_c_26.html

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Here is the redheaded stepchild. The.338 Razorback.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsg7h8K0q4I

[Tokarev]

To summarize what Hornady and others have said about 300 BLK, it has two nodes of remarkable inefficiency and instability: one with heavy bullets at subsonic speeds, one with light bullets at supersonic speeds. It doesn't do either one particularly well. Small variations in powder charge, temp, case volume can make for big changes in velocity.

This new cal is supposedly much more efficient and stable at those ends of the velocity spectrum, and carries much more energy, too.

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[RealSelf]

Q's take on the .338 ARC.

https://youtu.be/67xbJvOuQiU?si=2IuvaEvJm7uzP_kY


(TLDL: They not a fan.)

He makes some good points. My takeaway, the most important concept he presented here is that ammo companies should work with firearm companies.

"Ammo companies shouldn't be making cartridges for guns that don't exist or have to be modified" -Kevin @ Q

Think back, the 5.56 was designed in tandem with the M16 rifle. The M5 was designed for the 6.7 Fury. I have very limited interest in adopting new calibers that were not designed in tandem with firearm designers to make sure they function in a gas gun properly. Did Hornady actually work with a firearms company to design the round? Hornady claims it was designed for a request with unnamed military/LE or something along those lines (very slight mention with no specific) but was this simply this agency planning on just modding an existing weapon system in inventory?? Too many question marks here and as he mentions if there are problems with the cartridge working as intended with what's produced Hornady can blame the gunmakers.

His comments regarding 6mm ARC seem a bit of a stretch considering there are options that work (though expensive) with the Geissele GFR series. Expensive design requirements do not mean a terrible design, IMO.

[Disciple]

Here's the grandfather

https://www.sbrammunition.com/338-Spectre_c_26.html

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I think that would be the 9x39mm.

[5pins]

He makes some good points. My takeaway, the most important concept he presented here is that ammo companies should work with firearm companies.

"Ammo companies shouldn't be making cartridges for guns that don't exist or have to be modified" -Kevin @ Q



His comments regarding 6mm ARC seem a bit of a stretch considering there are options that work (though expensive) with the Geissele GFR series. Expensive design requirements do not mean a terrible design, IMO.

Here is the list of firearms companies that Hornady is working with according to their website.



Aero Precision
AR Stoner
Ballistic Advantage
Black Rain Ordnance
Brownell’s
Carbon Six
CMMG
Faxon
KAK Industry
Maxim Defense
ODIN Works
Palmetto State Armory
Preferred Barrels
Primary Weapon Systems
PROOF Research
Seekins Precision
Stag Arms
Uintah Precision


ODIN Works is taking pre orders on their barrels and Faxon has them listed as coming soon.

He sales his 8.6 rifles for $3000 to $4000 but complains about needing to buy a premium bolt for $200.

I do agree with him that the twist is too slow, and the magazines are not the best.

[RealSelf]

He sales his 8.6 rifles for $3000 to $4000 but complains about needing to buy a premium bolt for $200.

I do agree with him that the twist is too slow, and the magazines are not the best.

Hornady discusses in the Podcast for the .338 that the only reason Q went with such a fast twist rate was because they were using off the shelf bullets not designed around 8.6 BLK and needed the fast twist to get the bullets to expand reliably. They mention that they could have used faster twist but it caused too many additional complications to make that compromise.

It seems silly to even discuss the bolt pricing not just for what you mention but because this caliber itself is not going to be cheap to fire, the shorter bolt life and/or expensive bolt is a drop in the bucket long term I'd say.

[psalms144.1]

I'm perfectly happy with the 300BO. I'm looking for a round that performs well out of short barrels (mine is 7.5, because I have Rattler taste but a PSA budget). From what I've seen, this round looks optimized for longer barrels.

To me I don't see the selling point of this except for someone looking for something new. The "supers" aren't that super, so saying one gas system will run super or sub unsuppressed seems gimmicky. And, I don't understand why anyone would want to shoot anything sub sonic without suppressing it in the first place.

But, I'm just a poor dumb country boy from NY, what do I know?

Oh, and OF COURSE, the Q video is marketing nonsense. And repetitive. And annoying. And idiotic - "expensive bolt" and "proprietary mags" seem like the last thing you'd be worried about if you're looking for a new rifle chambered in one of the ARCs.

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/-0MqaZ6cnYg

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[Sensei]

There are plenty of 300blk rifles that collapse down to MP5K sizes. Has anyone fired a 338ARC or 8.6blk with a barrel less than 9 inches? The shortest barrel for an AR-pattern rifle that I can find for either caliber is around 12.5”.

In other words, the 300blk brings legit rifle performances out to 300 meters to PDW-sized weapons that are easily suppressed. Neither the 338ARC nor the 8.6blk should be mentioned in the same breath as the 300blk until there are sub-9” barrels for these calibers.

[Eric_F]

There are plenty of 300blk rifles that collapse down to MP5K sizes. Has anyone fired a 338ARC or 8.6blk with a barrel less than 9 inches? The shortest barrel for an AR-pattern rifle that I can find for either caliber is around 12.5”.

In other words, the 300blk brings legit rifle performances out to 300 meters to PDW-sized weapons that are easily suppressed. Neither the 338ARC nor the 8.6blk should be mentioned in the same breath as the 300blk until there are sub-9” barrels for these calibers.

KAK industry posted their velocity testing, including from 8.5" barrels here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/1hk32pn/338_arc_velocities_tested/

Supposedly we'll see barrels from them soon, but I'm not seeing a single one from anyone in stock yet.

[Sensei]

They advertise 1850 fps with a 175 grain projectile from an 8.5” barrel is near the lower limit of rifle performance for most bullets. That’s not going to make me embraces these calibers as 300blk alternatives.

[jtcarm]

I'm sure it's better than .30-30 past 100 yards

I doubt it.

175-grain .338 bullet is going to have a low bc and shed velocity pretty quick.

[5pins]

KAK industry posted their velocity testing, including from 8.5" barrels here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/1hk32pn/338_arc_velocities_tested/

Supposedly we'll see barrels from them soon, but I'm not seeing a single one from anyone in stock yet.

I'm seeing ammo but no barrels.

[Eric_F]

Not seeing any barrels either, but both types of factory ammo are available. IMO, no point to supersonic ammo in this cartridge, but the subsonic potential is very interesting. Effectively the same external and terminal ballistics as 8.6 BLK, but with reasonable twists so less bullet restrictions and easier to keep subsonic reliably, plus smaller format actions. And if you compare sub 300 BLK to sub 338 ARC, you're putting more mass on target and retaining velocity longer. Only downside is a more niche supply and more expensive ammo.

[Sensei]

Not seeing any barrels either, but both types of factory ammo are available. IMO, no point to supersonic ammo in this cartridge, but the subsonic potential is very interesting. Effectively the same external and terminal ballistics as 8.6 BLK, but with reasonable twists so less bullet restrictions and easier to keep subsonic reliably, plus smaller format actions. And if you compare sub 300 BLK to sub 338 ARC, you're putting more mass on target and retaining velocity longer. Only downside is a more niche supply and more expensive ammo.

I come at this from the angle of having several 300blk rifles but not a single subsonic bullet. That is to say, I exclusively use the 300blk because it gives me marginal rifle performance out to 150 meters. I believe that marginal rifle performance is significantly superior to good pistol performance.

Thus, I don’t understand this desire to improve on the 300blk subsonic terminal performance with the 8.6blk or 338ARC. These are sub-9mm hole punchers if they don’t expand or yaw. I’d take the terminal performance of a 9mm PCC loaded with 147 grain HST over anything that these rifle caliber subsonic loads offer until they design a load that reliably feeds and expands. If I’m going subsonic, then I’m using a pistol caliber with a proven bullet construction.

[Sensei]

Just a quick qualification to my previous post. My reference to “marginal performance” from the 300blk is in reference to a supersonic bullet fired from a sub-10” barrel. As noted in the figure in my previous post and data published in the thread https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?26978-Factory-Ammo-Chrono-Results-from-Various-Barrel-Lengths, the 300blk terminal performing smokes 5.56 at distances less than 150 meters. It’s really not even close when you look at what the Barnes Vortex bullets do against intermediate barriers; the best performing bonded 5.56 bullets (RA556B, Speer Bonded, etc) can’t touch that when fired from a 9” barrel. Moreover, at 2100-2200 fps, the 300blk supers retain legit rifle stretch cavity performance that pistol and rifle caliber subs can’t touch. That stretch capability is maintained well out to 25-50 meters from a 5.5” Rattler barrel driving the bullet 1800+ fps. Hence, the 300blk from a Rattler is still just edging out the terminal performance of a MP5 or other PCC with an 8-10” barrel.

[nate89]

I come at this from the angle of having several 300blk rifles but not a single subsonic bullet. That is to say, I exclusively use the 300blk because it gives me marginal rifle performance out to 150 meters. I believe that marginal rifle performance is significantly superior to good pistol performance.

Thus, I don’t understand this desire to improve on the 300blk subsonic terminal performance with the 8.6blk or 338ARC. These are sub-9mm hole punchers if they don’t expand or yaw. I’d take the terminal performance of a 9mm PCC loaded with 147 grain HST over anything that these rifle caliber subsonic loads offer until they design a load that reliably feeds and expands. If I’m going subsonic, then I’m using a pistol caliber with a proven bullet construction.

I also have been using 300 BLK for quite a few years now. At one point, I had a 7" straight pull pistol, a 16" bolt gun, and 2 ARs in 300 BLK. I've trimmed that down a bit as of late, but I've been shooting and handloading 300 BLK for quite some time (although I haven't been into it long enough to say I was loading 300 whisper pre-SAAMI approval). I have also had great success using the 110 Barnes projectiles, and can get them to just over 2,000 FPS in my 7" AR. I will say the Makers 200 and 220 grain expanding subs have also been very reliable as far as accuracy, expansion, and good penetration in the years I've been buying and using them.

That being said-in my experience with a DI AR15, there is a significant difference between a 110 super and a 220 sub as far as reliably cycling and what I perceive as being hard on on the gun. I almost look at the supers and subs as two different calibers--and you need some sort of adjustment to the gas/buffer/etc. between the two, especially if you are shooting higher round counts. I say that as someone who has broken bolt lugs and barrel extensions in less rounds that you would expect shooting supers suppressed (and all factory ammo at that point as well!). What I see as one of the big advantages of 338 ARC is the difference in the super and sub ammo as far as cycling the gun is not so drastic. I imagine 338 ARC is much closer to a "single setup for supers and subs" that 300 BLK promised, but I believe failed to deliver. I'm still really happy with 300 BLK, and with the common bolt and magazines I don't see moving to 338 ARC myself, for someone not invested in blackout (and perhaps already into 6mm or 22 ARC) it is compelling.

I had almost made a jump into 338 Spectre a year or so ago, and I'm glad I didn't because I'd prefer the factory support with 338 ARC, and the better supersonic performance it offers.

In closing: I'm glad Hornady released this, I could see getting into it in the future, and I hope it does well.

[Eric_F]

Found one (expensive) source of barrels right now: https://mos-tek.com/product/338-arc-barrel-15-twist-stainless/

Personally I'm waiting to see how the 307 Sub-X performs, if it reliably feed and expands subsonic that really makes the case for this cartridge.

[5pins]

Found one (expensive) source of barrels right now: https://mos-tek.com/product/338-arc-barrel-15-twist-stainless/

Personally I'm waiting to see how the 307 Sub-X performs, if it reliably feed and expands subsonic that really makes the case for this cartridge.

Three in stock and not cheap and I know nothing about them. 1 in 5 twist, interesting.

[RevolverRob]

I'm with Sensei on this. My view on .300BO is that you can crack rifle ballistics out of a 6" Rattler AND it suppresses well in supersonic. The 110-grain Barnes has full penetration and expansion down to ~900fps of impact velocity, too.

Subsonic .300BO is useful for playing with and occasionally shooting thin skinned, under 30kg pests, like coyotes. I know there are some secret squirrel dudes who use them for killing certain baddies. That's not me. If you need to kill something of merit with a subsonic and suppressed bullet, you can launch a bunch of different large caliber bullets at it - just pick one.

540-grainers out of a .458 SOCOM - fires out of an unmodified AR15, minus the obvious barrel change.

Or you know, a good old fashioned 500-grain bullet out of a .45-70 on a moderate charge will easily give you under 1000FPS. With enough penetration to drop any human, deer, or even an elk. I'm sure Brittingham will tell you 8.6BLK will do it too, I'm sure it will. But I can buy a .45-70 Marlin or Henry and enough supplies to make .45-70s for about 1/2 the cost of a Q Fix in 8.6.

[RevolverRob]

Additional thought. I think we need to take this cute little .338 ARC case, and stick about 100gr bullet in it and stuff it into a HK USP or something robust. A big-bore 5.7 if you will.

[Sensei]

My bottom line is that these 300blk alternatives would need to show superior supersonic terminal performance from barrels less than 9” before they are “killers” or replacements for the 300blk. I’ve not seen testing of supersonic loads from sub-9” barrels. Simply improving on the subsonic performance at any barrel length is not going to make most of us abandon our 300blk rifles.

[RealSelf]

In a nutshell, the real need for this cartridge is longer range subsonic accuracy and terminal performance. If you don't need this, look elsewhere or carry on. The supersonic performance is just another facet to this cartridge but again it's worth noting that the development was originally for certain units who needed a longer range subsonic capability.

[5pins]

The .300BK and this cartridge only interest me for subsonic rounds. If I need something supersonic, I already have other options.

MosTek barrels seem to have a pretty good reputation, so I ordered the 8.3 with a 1 in 5 twist. All the other barrels out there (and not for sale yet0 seem to be 12 inches or longer, with a 1 in 8, and I don't see the point for subs.

I could be wrong and may regret it, but I guess I'll find out.

[5pins]

All ready to go, just waiting on the weather.

128552

[Eric_F]

Very interested to see what you find.

KAK Industry has uppers available, barrels not yet. They're also saying that Grendel mags don't work, and only recommend 400 Legend mags.
https://kakindustry.com/complete-ar15-upper-receiver-338-arc-8-5-barrel-7-2-mlok/

The PSA Mixtape, with Six8-pattern wider (longer?) mag well and upper to fit Magpul's new ICAR dedicated 6 ARC mags is also interesting but for much more money.

[5pins]

Very interested to see what you find.

KAK Industry has uppers available, barrels not yet. They're also saying that Grendel mags don't work, and only recommend 400 Legend mags.
https://kakindustry.com/complete-ar15-upper-receiver-338-arc-8-5-barrel-7-2-mlok/

The PSA Mixtape, with Six8-pattern wider (longer?) mag well and upper to fit Magpul's new ICAR dedicated 6 ARC mags is also interesting but for much more money.

I went to the range yesterday and got mixed results, mostly because of me. The scope I picked wasn't the best. The parallax was problematic at 50 yards, and the stock was also a bad pick to use with a rear bag, so accuracy was inconsistent. I have since replaced both and plan to go out Wednesday.

But here are some observations.

I shot the first four rounds, two subs and two supers, to make sure the bullets were not tumbling before I put the suppressor on. Without the suppressor, the bolt would not lock back properly but worked fine with it on.

Velocity was 1856 fps with the supers and 1020 fps with the subs. The velocity numbers are just a ballpark figure because I only got readings from three supers and two subs.

The subs didn't feed out of the 6.5 Grendel mags made by ACS but worked fine with the C-products marked 6.8. the two look almost identical.

BTW Odin works has barrels in stock.

https://www.odinworks.com/searchresults.asp?Search=338&Submit=rrels

[5pins]

I made it out to the range twice now since the first outing. The second trip wasn’t much better than the first. Groups ranging from 1.5 to 2.5 inches at 50 yards, three shot groups. This was after putting a 10-power scope, with parallax adjustment, and better stock.

After getting home I looked at the groups and noticed a pattern. Almost all the groups would put two rounds close together and one flyer would open it up significantly. The thought came to me that the bipod was bouncing across the bench. So, I went back out yesterday with the bipod removed and used a bag as a rest. I only had six rounds of subs and four of the supers. The two, three shot groups, of subs were a little better but more symmetrical at 1 inch and 1.5 inches. Not great but encouraging. The suppers show much better improvement with a four shot groups of .47 inches. Again, this is at 50 yards.

The results were good enough for me to order more ammo and try pushing it out to 100 yards.

My thoughts at this point? More ammo to pick from would be nice. PSA/ AAC has announced they will be coming out with some. Gel test of the sub X bullet would be interesting. You would think getting a .338 bullet to expand like a .335 bullet shouldn’t be a problem.

[RealSelf]

I made it out to the range twice now since the first outing. The second trip wasn’t much better than the first. Groups ranging from 1.5 to 2.5 inches at 50 yards, three shot groups. This was after putting a 10-power scope, with parallax adjustment, and better stock.

After getting home I looked at the groups and noticed a pattern. Almost all the groups would put two rounds close together and one flyer would open it up significantly. The thought came to me that the bipod was bouncing across the bench. So, I went back out yesterday with the bipod removed and used a bag as a rest. I only had six rounds of subs and four of the supers. The two, three shot groups, of subs were a little better but more symmetrical at 1 inch and 1.5 inches. Not great but encouraging. The suppers show much better improvement with a four shot groups of .47 inches. Again, this is at 50 yards.

The results were good enough for me to order more ammo and try pushing it out to 100 yards.

My thoughts at this point? More ammo to pick from would be nice. PSA/ AAC has announced they will be coming out with some. Gel test of the sub X bullet would be interesting. You would think getting a .338 bullet to expand like a .335 bullet shouldn’t be a problem.

Your groups are too small if shooting 3 shot groups. 20 shot groups are much better representing what the true accuracy picture looks like. Hornady has some great podcasts on this subject, fyi.

[The Rat]

Your groups are too small if shooting 3 shot groups. 20 shot groups are much better representing what the true accuracy picture looks like. Hornady has some great podcasts on this subject, fyi.

20 round groups on a boutique, expensive round is gonna add up real quick.

[LittleLebowski]

Your groups are too small if shooting 3 shot groups. 20 shot groups are much better representing what the true accuracy picture looks like. Hornady has some great podcasts on this subject, fyi.

You buying the ammo?

[RealSelf]

You buying the ammo?

The facts remain that you can expect 3 rd. groups to not represent the true accuracy cone of fire for any rifle in real life. If you can't afford 20 rd groups to zero, etc, you have much bigger problems and probably would be better running a cheap AK with surplus crap and not even mention accuracy in the discussion.

[RealSelf]

20 round groups on a boutique, expensive round is gonna add up real quick.

If you've not ran 20 rds. through a build you have not even broken in the barrel, lol. 20 rds. of Hornady is not going to bankrupt anyone that's not already broke.

These so called 'flyers' are nothing more than artifacts of the greater picture of true accuracy and are not to be discarded. If you shoot more rounds you'll see that everything ends up in a nice obvious cone shape and that's the true accuracy, period.+

[LittleLebowski]

The facts remain that you can expect 3 rd. groups to not represent the true accuracy cone of fire for any rifle in real life. If you can't afford 20 rd groups to zero, etc, you have much bigger problems and probably would be better running a cheap AK with surplus crap and not even mention accuracy in the discussion.

I know, dead on the streets because of my cheapness ;) I'll live somehow though.

[RealSelf]

I know, dead on the streets because of my cheapness ;) I'll live somehow though.

Interesting that you have no real comments on the assertion that 3 rd groups are not an accurate representation of accuracy potential. What are you adding to this discussion exactly, my friend?

[LittleLebowski]

Interesting that you have no real comments on the assertion that 3 rd groups are not an accurate representation of accuracy potential. What are you adding to this discussion exactly, my friend?

I own this joint, friendo. I’m just laughing at your oh-so-seriousness. The OP did us a valuable service and shares a ton of knowledge, all at his own expense, and all you do is nitpick. I’d appreciate it if you were a bit more friendly and less ascerbic.

[RealSelf]

I own this joint, friendo. I’m just laughing at your oh-so-seriousness. The OP did us a valuable service and shares a ton of knowledge, all at his own expense, and all you do is nitpick. I’d appreciate it if you were a bit more friendly and less ascerbic.

Interesting that you find it friendly to laugh at someone pointing out an important detail that is little understood. And you also consider this to be a technical forum? Ironic that someone points out a technical detail that really does matter and you call it nitpicking.

[5pins]

Interesting that you have no real comments on the assertion that 3 rd groups are not an accurate representation of accuracy potential. What are you adding to this discussion exactly, my friend?

[5pins]

Interesting that you have no real comments on the assertion that 3 rd groups are not an accurate representation of accuracy potential. What are you adding to this discussion exactly, my friend?

You missed what I was trying to do. I was not trying to find out the accuracy potential of the rifle. I was trying to get a ruff zero at 50 and then zero it at 100.

[LittleLebowski]

Interesting that you find it friendly to laugh at someone pointing out an important detail that is little understood. And you also consider this to be a technical forum? Ironic that someone points out a technical detail that really does matter and you call it nitpicking.

🤣

[LittleLebowski]

Back on topic.

[Phaedrus]

I don't know much about the 338 ARC but ammo prices will have to drop by 70% for it to have much chance of being a .300 Blackout killer.

[Borderland]

The really nice thing about 300 is you can set around in your underwear, cutting and reforming brass form .223/5.56 to 300. Or you can just buy it from Starline for about the same price as .223. I didn't see any 338 ARC brass on the SL website. You can also load 300 with about any 308 bullet. I have a few thousand 110 gr bullets and 223 cases. I was considering a cheap 300 bolt gun for awhile. Might still do that being cheap.

The object of any new cartridge is ammo sales. That requires a lot of marketing by both ammo and firearms manufacturers. If one or the other doesn't sell the cartridge will disappear in a few years.

[LittleLebowski]

The really nice thing about 300 is you can set around in your underwear, cutting and reforming brass form .223/5.56 to 300. Or you can just buy it from Starline for about the same price as .223. I didn't see any 338 ARC brass on the SL website. You can also load 300 with about any 308 bullet. I have a few thousand 110 gr bullets and 223 cases. I was considering a cheap 300 bolt gun for awhile. Might still do that being cheap.

The object of any new cartridge is ammo sales. That requires a lot of marketing by both ammo and firearms manufacturers. If one or the other doesn't sell the cartridge will disappear in a few years.

I just save my.300BO brass and I’ve picked up a shitload at public ranges.

[5pins]

I don't know much about the 338 ARC but ammo prices will have to drop by 70% for it to have much chance of being a .300 Blackout killer.

I agree it's nowhere near to killing the .300 BK. Prices will need to drop and more manufactures will need to jump in. Even then the 300 is too popular and entrenched.

[Borderland]

I just save my.300BO brass and I’ve picked up a shitload at public ranges.

I got my .223/5.56 brass from a private range. I probably had 5,000 cases until I sold some. Still have too much. Used to be hundreds of cases in the brass bin until a few years ago.

300 BO is a pretty slick little cartridge. A 21st century 30 Carbine.