.357 vs .38 spl woods gun for South West

[BK14]

I know I could just get hardcast bullets for my G19 and be functional, but I’ve got a good price on either a Taurus 856 or 605 Toro just staring at me.

I’m wanting to pick up one of these two options as a “woods gun” for the US southwest, primarily Arizona and Colorado. I do some hunting, lots of backpacking and hiking, and want something in this 3” revolver size category for the use of personal protection while out. I currently have the 2” 856 hammerless UL that’s my rule 1/deep concealment gun and it’s been great.

For my area, what’s the consensus on a 6 shot .38 spl with some Lost River ammo, versus a 5 shot .357? Is the .357 adding that much capability?

[jtcarm]

Is there a possibility of any four-legged threats that might require more oomph than bipedal vermin?

[WDR]

I'd opt for the .357, simply because you can always stuff .38's in the .357... but you cannot do the reverse.

Which is why I have a 3" S&W Model 60 .357 :cool:

[Stephanie B]

I dunno. I like 3" guns, but there is a a lot to be said for a 4" Model 66 with .357 158grn HSTs in an AIWB holster or, when it gets colder, a Model 28.

[JonInWA]

I recommend taking a hard look at High Desert Cartridge Company's offerings; Darryl Bolke has been instrumental in working up their revolver cartridge offerings; I've been very impressed with their .357. (I like their .38 Special as well; but for woods use, I'd go with their .357).

Best, Jon

[1slow]

Take a look at what worked in the past for Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton etc….

If memory serves Skelton favored a .357 and was mainly in the southwest , Keith a .44 with approximately 250 gr. At 1100- 1200 fps. In Idaho.

Come close to those ballistics.

Take a look at what GJM and others have experimented with in semi auto pistols.

[L-2]

There's no doubt Taurus has some lower pricing than other brands: S&W, Ruger, Kimber, and Colt, which all come to mind.

I haven't previously considered or been exposed to the Taurus brand. I just personally don't know anyone who has one. There's also the Rossi company as long as we're talking Taurus:
https://rossiusa.com/revolvers?id=60&view=category

Also, I suppose if the revolver is to be carried, but seldom shot, anything will be ok. Shooting a lot (name the number of rounds to be periodically put through the gun) can possibly disclose whatever failures may arise (e.g., light strikes; failures to ignite; failures to cycle; outright breakages; shaving lead/mistiming; sticky chambers; accuracy; all come to mind.

I personally hate various imperfections or needing to send a gun back to the factory for anything. My revolvers are S&W and Ruger.

Three inch barrels seem to be a good compromise, size-wise. Do consider there are 2.5" to 4" barreled revolvers which may shoot just as well with minimal size/carry differences.

Besides Taurus, Ruger also has the single-action models, btw. here's one which might be considered, too:
https://www.ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkStainless/specSheets/0309.html

I've typed too much already, not being anybody's salesperson and really have no cares as to what somebody else buys.
Good luck on your shopping and decision-making. Let us know what you get with some pics and a review if you have time.:)

[titsonritz]

I recommend taking a hard look at High Desert Cartridge Company's offerings; Darryl Bolke has been instrumental in working up their revolver cartridge offerings; I've been very impressed with their .357. (I like their .38 Special as well; but for woods use, I'd go with their .357).

Best, Jon

https://highdesertcartridge.com/

I was at Steve’s range helping him record velocities with his chronograph on the first batch of .38spl turned out by his presses. IIRC it was after a weekend class with Jon Dufresne, I hung out an extra day for some alone trigger time.

As to the OP, 357

[Bushytale]

Many years with a 4 inch m-19 and/or m-66 pre lock. Used many thousands of mid range .357 loads, 158 grain at about 1100 fps, for a comfortable and useful load. The K-frame gives you enough size and weight without being overly heavy or large. you can step up the power to 158 gr at about 1250 or go milder with 38 special loads of any type. Just my experience in south Florida and Texas

[gato naranja]

I know I could just get hardcast bullets for my G19 and be functional, but I’ve got a good price on either a Taurus 856 or 605 Toro just staring at me.

I’m wanting to pick up one of these two options as a “woods gun” for the US southwest, primarily Arizona and Colorado. I do some hunting, lots of backpacking and hiking, and want something in this 3” revolver size category for the use of personal protection while out. I currently have the 2” 856 hammerless UL that’s my rule 1/deep concealment gun and it’s been great.

For my area, what’s the consensus on a 6 shot .38 spl with some Lost River ammo, versus a 5 shot .357? Is the .357 adding that much capability?

I have never personally owned that many 3" guns but do like them as long as they have a set of sights that are easily adjusted or replaced. With my old eyes, a 3" revolver with the right front blade and a rear that doesn't require Kentucky windage guessing games actually works rather well. In my own experience, the 3" revolvers are better enjoyed with .38 Specials or the lighter end of .357 Magnum loads than their longer-barreled siblings. For my own use, I have almost abandoned what I would classify as medium and full power .357 Magnum loads due to my own increasing recoil intolerance. That being said, I still keep plenty of .357 around for use in a dirt-common full-lug 4" GP-100 and some lever-action carbines. Were I going where something was likely to consider me prey, I still want the extra that the the Magnum round can deliver.

(Yes, I could use Elmer-level hot .38 handloads, but if I want to play ballistics games with the two case lengths, I would rather run light .357 Magnums.)

As for the five-hole vs six-hole controversy, six is always going to come out on top in theory; in practice, I have found the former only irritating to me when out plinking or otherwise mindlessly blasting away. The Talo 3" SP101 in .357 actually comes very close to my idea of the all-around "one revolver that can do anything in a pinch," but I am getting too blasted old to want to run much .357 through one.

[okie john]

I know I could just get hardcast bullets for my G19 and be functional, but I’ve got a good price on either a Taurus 856 or 605 Toro just staring at me.

I’m wanting to pick up one of these two options as a “woods gun” for the US southwest, primarily Arizona and Colorado. I do some hunting, lots of backpacking and hiking, and want something in this 3” revolver size category for the use of personal protection while out. I currently have the 2” 856 hammerless UL that’s my rule 1/deep concealment gun and it’s been great.

For my area, what’s the consensus on a 6 shot .38 spl with some Lost River ammo, versus a 5 shot .357? Is the .357 adding that much capability?

To answer the question you asked: 357, not for more power but because it can also use 38 Special ammo.

To answer the questions you didn’t ask: you're most likely to have trouble from other humans on the way to and from the trail head. A semi wins for that, and is a good bet for bad dogs should the need arise. Beyond that, I'd choose something legal for big game where you live, and I'd keep bear and cougar tags in my wallet. Then if you shoot something, you tag it and take it home instead of spending months and tens of thousands of dollars explaining yourself in court. Share this thinking your companions before you leave so you don’t get a lot of hostile questions while you’re standing over a steaming carcass with a knife in your hand.

I own S&W 44 Magnums and Glocks, so I carry a four-inch Model 29 where WA law requires it and a 9mm Glock everywhere else. If I had to start over, then I’d go G19 and G21, upgrade sights, and run Lost River ammo in both.

I already have the guns I need, so I'd probably spend the Taurus money on new boots or ammo.


Okie John

[lee n. field]

I know I could just get hardcast bullets for my G19 and be functional, but I’ve got a good price on either a Taurus 856 or 605 Toro just staring at me.

I’m wanting to pick up one of these two options as a “woods gun” for the US southwest, primarily Arizona and Colorado. I do some hunting, lots of backpacking and hiking, and want something in this 3” revolver size category for the use of personal protection while out. I currently have the 2” 856 hammerless UL that’s my rule 1/deep concealment gun and it’s been great.

For my area, what’s the consensus on a 6 shot .38 spl with some Lost River ammo, versus a 5 shot .357? Is the .357 adding that much capability?

I have a steel 605, have had it since (I think) 2008. Lots of .38 through it. Only have 2 or 3 cylinders worth of .357 through it. It's not fun. Your tolerance for violent explosions going off right in front of your hand may be different than mine.

That said, I hear Lost River is loaded lighter, yes? (Maybe I'm confusing them with someone else.)

[fatdog]

I would vote for a steel framed .357 6 shot for the reasons cited by many here, especially versatility when it comes to ammo choices. I see model and brand as a crap shoot these days, and getting yours well vetted and tested is crucial no matter which one.

Personally I would be more comfortable hiking with your G19, and considering the location I would be fine with conventional JHP's (off Doc's list) for black bears under 300lbs, wild dogs, or cougars, but I don't know for certain what size critters are there. The presence of grizzlies or the larger sized black bears changes my thinking on ammo. These days on the trail, I am more concerned about the 2 legged adversaries, especially those that travel in multiples, stake out trailheads or camping spots, etc. and I would be much happier with the G19 in those circumstances.

[Caballoflaco]

Personally I would be more comfortable hiking with your G19, and considering the location I would be fine with conventional JHP's (off Doc's list) for black bears under 300lbs, wild dogs, or cougars, but I don't know for certain what size critters are there. The presence of grizzlies or the larger sized black bears changes my thinking on ammo. These days on the trail, I am more concerned about the 2 legged adversaries, especially those that travel in multiples, stake out trailheads or camping spots, etc. and I would be much happier with the G19 in those circumstances.

I carry a G19 or 26 for those exact reasons, one of the most dangerous things I ever encountered in the woods was returning to our car at a trailhead in the TNF to find a couple of inebriated fellas sighting in their deer rifles in the damn parking lot, shooting past where the trail entered the parking lot.

[Salamander]

A quick search for “Black bear range” shows presence in all of mountainous Colorado, and only small parts of Arizona. Anyplace with bear (or feral pigs) I’d want more than 38. That said, I mostly carry a 9mm semi in the woods these days. JHP to the trailhead, then swap to a magazine of monolithic solids before hiking in.

[03RN]

I think a 4" tapered barrel m10 with 158gr swc @1000 fps would be just fine

[SCCY Marshal]

...Is the .357 adding that much capability?

It adds options for loading. A buddy just picked up a 3" S&W model 60 for a similar application. Live with .38 or .38+P and have a vetted magnum load when he feels the need (and is a hunting legal caliber in his jurisdiction while 38 Special is not). Another old mountain gorilla I know likes a well vetted 2.5" Charter Bulldog with edge broken hammer spur for more oomph over .38 while still being low pressure and somewhat reasonable for small game in a pinch. I think he picked up that habit doing trail maintenance and mountainside construction seven days a week in Arizona.


I think a 4" tapered barrel m10 with 158gr swc @1000 fps would be just fine

Despite aiming for 850-900fps to splat small game less, have a milder report when plinking around camp, and take it easier on the gun; I second the motion. I've yet to find a gun that fits real hiking and camping as well as a pocket-size snub or Model 10/64. Even a model 15 gets heavy, is less tuckable in various spots, and has a rear sight that loves to find ways to jab/tear gear/break.

[Zeke38]

3" S&W Model60-15 is a great choice. Colt 3" King Cobra and or a Ruger SP101 3" with adjustable sights. I've owned all three and have made many a sojourn into the brush here in Idaho's lower country. 158 gr and similar points of aim and impact whether with the magnum or the Special loads. It kind of goes in the weeds when we drop down to 125 grain or lower weights for maintaining a common POA/POI.

The KC 3" is very accurate even without adjustables and the gun likes the 158 grain bullet weight and is a 6 shot weapon. I truly regret selling the King Cobra, it was a classy revolver to carry and shoot.

All of the above mentioned weapons are in the same weight class.







Zeke38

[M2CattleCo]

I use a 3” SP101 with Buffalo Bore 38+p 158 hardcast outdoorsman.

[Tarrrnation!]

My goto in the NW is a 3 inch GP100 with Buffalo Bore or Underwood + p 38 special 158 grain Lead hardcast semiwadcutter for 4 legged and the LSWHP version for defense from 2 legged critters. If I was in a semiauto mind, I’d chose an HST or Gold dot in .40 sw and an HK USP. Probably you’d be fine with any caliber you can shoot proficiently. I second others and say *always* people are my first concern over animals.

[Buckeye63]

123312

I carry my Ruger Security Six 357 often while hiking or camping…

[JonInWA]

Although I enjoy and appreciate my revolvers-both single-and double-actions, when I'm hunting or hiking in the Pacific Northwest I usually will carry a semi-auto for personal defense for several reasons-weight, on-board ammunition capacity, ease of reloading, weather imperviousness, and ease of maintenance if necessary. Generally, it'll be a Glock, usually my Gen4 G22 .40 with Underwood Lehigh 140 gr Xtreme Penetrators, along with a magazine of my normal carry load, which is Federal 180 gr HST or 180 gr Gold Dots.

If I wished to move closer into .357 magnum performance, I've got the Glock .357 SIG barrel and magazines for the gun, so .357 SIG could certainly be a consideration, so as long as you don't envision a need to purchase more .357 SIG ammunition during the venture at a local store.

Best, Jon

[taroman]

Four years in southern Arizona. This was my constant companion.
$123 new at Jensen's in Tucson.
One kill. A rattlesnake.
123515

[JTMcC]

Growing up in the SW I'd go .357 all day every day given a choice.
If no other choice I would carry .38 Spc.
Out and about, in the rural SW, you have the opportunity to encounter wild range cows that don't like humans, large wild range bulls much, much more so.
Black bears abound but "normally" are no threat, for that matter most humans are no threat. We arm ourselves not for the everyday norm but for the odd largest belligerant possible threat.

Only antecdotal of course, but feral dogs in my experience drop much faster from .357's than they do from .38"s. .44's even more so. I have a fairly large sample base there.

Living decades in remote SW America I'd (and do) carry .44 mag, be very content with .357 mag, be a lot more cautious with a .38 and pick my .38 ammo very carefully. .45 acp with proper ammo is another decent choice.
Odds are low, but I've seen obscure odds pop up in my face and come alive and myself (and others) were happy to have some additional horsepower, your travels will likely require zero level of horsepower to be launched but it's a gun forum and we just enjoy being prepared for the unlikely :D

[Rock185]

JTMcC makes some good points. I've lived in Arizona for a very long time. Never giving it much thought, I pretty much carried whatever in the boonies. But with the 3" and longer barrels, the.357 really starts pulling away from most .38 Spcl.+P loads. And FWIW, the large PD I worked for issued .38 +P 125 JHP for years. It was not unusual for dogs or humans shot with this ammo to survive. While I was a patrol sergeant, one of my guys had to shoot a vicious dog that had already bitten someone, chased someone else atop a car, and came for the officers. Shot between the eyes with the .38+P, the dog went down and appeared dead. Soon after, the hot tone went off on the radio, at which point the "dead" dog jumped up and ran off. The dog was recaptured and survived.

[taroman]

Four years in southern Arizona. This was my constant companion.
$123 new at Jensen's in Tucson.
One kill. A rattlesnake.
123515
If I was in the same spot now, I'd be carrying my Colt King Cobra.
123747