New CZ P-09 Nocturne

[RONK]

Hi,CZ just came out with what appears to be an updated P-09,the Nocturne,optic ready,full size 91662 and compact 91670(P-07?).I'm sure more information will be coming out about them.

[Noah]

Where did you see this? Any pics?

[RONK]

Our CZ rep was in on Monday and said something new was coming out,he was unspecific.This morning I received a notification from a distributor indicating the new pistol.Sorry but I don't have a picture.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

BIG if true!

[Clusterfrack]

Outfuckingstanding

[CAB980002]

I got this email yesterday introducing them. I have been looking around and no additional info that I can find.

New CZ P-09 Nocturne
The new CZ P-09 Nocturne not only retains all key features of the previous CZ P-07/09 generation, but in some ways takes them even further. It comes with improved ergonomics, the ability to mount a red dot sight without a plate, and controls that further expand the features found in the CZ P-09 family.

https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/meips/ADKq_NZ6bP-iJ9vlrffUZlq_UydIpAqTUZ7lxqEEppZ6JkhWArW8QPDHFFDAV vNj2bWnVY7eRSx1y3kBQf61ovdf6gg7je-KvbuegfSXQgVWI_VtCnk1UFYBek5xz1B9sz0TFSiq2MYG0DFG9 I-M7PY-keDrTTAMZYyyszQ=s0-d-e1-ft#https://mcusercontent.com/2e4ad2f2fb49af4828dc03d92/images/7e9829f8-3310-2c34-4790-ef2609f0b1a5.jpg

https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/meips/ADKq_NZvPS_eFZ-llVPedEJ6AxZxhf2LneUMLENw6aJiKVg6jtSshdoP5Km-JHpJbOYmx_a6G8ODjV0IhpE_9QOaJOo7sd8dNBa56-Kj86lJOSj1-rmNC455-7snvok3MtdDNU8MigdBjKb7tWqdZ2I75RxOfIeczTOoHLI=s0-d-e1-ft#https://mcusercontent.com/2e4ad2f2fb49af4828dc03d92/images/295904d9-7911-f0b2-f75f-c1a959f8b963.jpg

[helothar]

looks like an optic ready p07?
https://prod.brownells.com/guns/handguns/semi-auto-handguns/p-09-c-nocturne-9mm-luger-semi-auto-handgun/

[TheNewbie]

Does the magazine/magazine well look different?

[Noah]

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[Noah]

Does the magazine/magazine well look different?

At a glance, the old mag might fit but the new mag won’t fit the old ones without changing the basepad.

Unless it’s all new.

[45dotACP]

It is about damn time...

[Lunker]

Too late.
Jagerwerks already got my money. [emoji3]


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[Kanye Wyoming]

Based on the Brownell’s page, it looks like the P07 is now the P09 C.

[Kanye Wyoming]

Now up on the CZ website (https://cz-usa.com/product-category/handguns/).

122329

[RealSelf]

Hard to tell from the pics but looks like either an indentation or slight 'plateau' area around the slide stop and decocker may interfere with holster fit for the P-07/P-07. If an indention there then no worries but a raised area that is thicker would be a problem for sure. I only notice because I sourced a holster for P-07 with intentions of finding one and this is even better if it works. Romeo-X Compact would be perfect on this pistol if the sights were lower.

[omega9]

TFB TV has a video up.

Interesting that they went with the holosun K cut.

https://youtu.be/VP9rS75MH1c

[GJM]

Is this essentially the same old 07/09 with an optic cut or are there other significant changes?

[Rwlambert]

Is this essentially the same old 07/09 with an optic cut or are there other significant changes?

It also has redesigned slide stop and safety/decocker levers, grip texture, and slide serrations. Otherwise it is dimensionally the same and uses the same magazines as the current P-07/09.

[Hstanton1]

Wow, this is pretty exciting. This will probably get me to finally give CZ pistols an honest try. I’d given up on trying to replace my glocks, but here we go again…

[LockedBreech]

Oh hell yeah. Glad I didn't panic-buy a P07 when I thought they were gonna be gone for good. It was close!

[GlockenSpiel]

https://prod.brownells.com/guns/handguns/semi-auto-handguns/p-09-c-nocturne-9mm-luger-semi-auto-handgun/

So not in stock yet, but if $520 will be the price then it's going to be hard to say no!

[MattyD380]

Timely. I've got a "legacy" P-07 on the way.

Clearly, the meaningful change is the optic cut; the CZ engineer that James interviews (in the TFBTV bit) confirms there's no internal/mechanical differences. So, since I'll be running irons anyway (because I'm Gun Amish), I figure I'll be perfectly happy with my middle-aged, non-duty P-07. We can embrace our mutual mid-life crises together.

The one P-07 I held felt freakin' great in hand. Honestly, better than the PCR I had. Can't believe it's taken me this long to try one.

[G19Fan]

Timely. I've got a "legacy" P-07 on the way.

Clearly, the meaningful change is the optic cut; the CZ engineer that James interviews (in the TFBTV bit) confirms there's no internal/mechanical differences. So, since I'll be running irons anyway (because I'm Gun Amish), I figure I'll be perfectly happy with my middle-aged, non-duty P-07. We can embrace our mutual mid-life crises together.

The one P-07 I held felt freakin' great in hand. Honestly, better than the PCR I had. Can't believe it's taken me this long to try one.

Don't love da/sa guns but loved a previously owned pair of p07s

[G19Fan]

TFB TV has a video up.

Interesting that they went with the holosun K cut.

https://youtu.be/VP9rS75MH1c

Czs have slimmer slides vs most same size guns

[Sig_Fiend]

This makes me both excited and sad. Excited, as a lover of hammer-fired guns, and how this is yet another chance to keep hammer guns alive and relevant.

Sad, as a lover of LEM, in the realization that HK will likely never do this for their hammer guns so they're forever stuck in time.

[RONK]

A few of our distributors notified us that the P-09 Compact is available.

[MattyD380]

Don't love da/sa guns but loved a previously owned pair of p07s

That's a solid endorsement, actually. Looking forward to trying it.

On the flip side...

I also just bought a P10C. Not typically a striker guy, but damn... that pistol can shoot. There's nothing fancy or revolutionary about it, per se, but the fundamentals in terms of the ergos and inputs are just good. It's like a striker-fired teaser for the P-07.

[H&K]

Good thing I hesitated to pick up a P07 that I saw yesterday. Now that's why they are somewhat scarce last few months.

[Clusterfrack]

This looks great. Parts compatibility. EPS footprint. Better grip texture and controls.

[backtrail540]

I'll be getting one. The p09 was pretty good as is with texture being one of my biggest quibbles. I have an issue dragging my finger on the rear trigger guard but that's workable. At the price point it is a great value.

[Redhat]

Good news for those who've been waiting for a factory optic cut.

[Nick B]

Hopefully a 10mm version.

[GJM]

This looks great. Parts compatibility. EPS footprint. Better grip texture and controls.

EPS full size without a plate is perfect -- wonder if the BUIS are taller than required?

[Lunker]

Unlike many folks with good impulse control, I bought the spare P07 when rumors were that they were going to be discontinued.

One with Dawson fiber optics and one milled by Jagerwerks for an RMR.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240815/934ab244321d9ac5dbeb6203528584df.jpg

[Elwin]

Is there a workable manual safety option for these? I assume no but wanted to ask. That would add to the appeal - poor man’s Staccato CS in addition to being a solid DA/SA choice.

[coN]

Is there a workable manual safety option for these? I assume no but wanted to ask. That would add to the appeal - poor man’s Staccato CS in addition to being a solid DA/SA choice.They are convertible to use a safety and it's included with purchase. Good ole' CZ Omega. I dunno if there are extended ones via aftermarket. Clusterfrack may know.

As for the OR P09; This does appeal to me as I have a free 507k free from a P365 but I'm already heading towards the HK/Beretta path for a hammer-fired gun. Tis' a shame these werent released sooner...

[Sasage]

Add this to the list of guns I don’t need but intend on buying.

[TheNewbie]

Is there a workable manual safety option for these? I assume no but wanted to ask. That would add to the appeal - poor man’s Staccato CS in addition to being a solid DA/SA choice.

A quick google search produced this. I did not read through the thread, so it might not be what you are looking for.


https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=124225.0



I’m glad to see the P-07/09 platform get new life. My dream situation would be then to make one with a LEM/DAK/etc type trigger and a workable manual safety. There was a prototype for a military trial, but a real option would be nice.


For a TDA, I’m mostly happy with the platform as is. They need to do another run of the Gen 2s and sell them at blow out prices.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Just want to say I am so happy about this!
Every year I browse through piles of shot show videos hoping for a true modern TDA option that is affordable for the masses, and every year I've been disappointed. This most recent one I was excited by the Grand Power mk23s, but the importer killed that by only importing manual safety models. I had totally given up on CZ, and figured something like this wouldn't be coming until after the updated P10, if ever.

This really seems to do everything right:

1. K/rmsc footprint. This is, imo, objectively the best footprint. It would be ACRO or 509 but there aren't any compact options for that footprint. k/rmsc pattern gives you tons of great options from many different companies. And if someone absolutely must mount a different pattern optic, I'm sure an adapter plate will be coming on the market soon enough with how many guns use this footprint now.
2. Grip texture. Hard to say without a gun in hand, but the texturing looks great. It appears more agressive and covers much more of the surface area of the grip. This is a big deal because its something buyers notice when they pick up the gun in a LGS and most people aren't going to risk destroying the gun with stippling.
3. Redone slide stop, decocker, safety, general styling. I don't have any complaints in these areas but I guess some do and this will be nice for them. with how popular 2011s are now I imagine there will be a fair number of people interested in running a manual safety if the ergos are improved on that.
4. Pretty much everything backwards compatible and forwards compatible so those of us with plenty of mags and spare parts are good to go.
5. Naming convention... Standardizing to the way they do the P10 makes sense. Trying to explain CZs ever changing naming conventions to a non gun nerd is a sisyphean task, but one number per platform with letters for sizes is as logical as its gonna get for CZ.

And for all this the price is the same as the legacy models, mid 500s. An optics ready CZ might be cheaper than an optics ready Glock now.

The only thing they are missing is an improved firing pin retaining pin and lighter hammer spring. Easy fixes for a shooter, but would be nice to have those taken care of out of the box for the average gun owner.

[Lunker]

And for all this the price is the same as the legacy models, mid 500s. An optics ready CZ might be cheaper than an optics ready Glock now.
.

Don’t forget to include the cost of the Cajun trigger kit. [emoji3]


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[elgrecoski]

Big fan of the EPS footprint. Hope we see this more often moving forward.

[Kanye Wyoming]

The James Reeves video must have been recorded quite a while ago and embargoed, as it appears the C is now in stock at a few places.

https://www.kygunco.com/product/cz-usa-p-09-c-nocturne-9mm-15rd-3.74

https://grabagun.com/cz-p-09-c-nocturne-9mm-3-7-barrel-15-rounds.html

[Virtuosity Student]

The CZ web store still has the P09/P10F 19 and 21 round mags in stock at discounted prices. The P07/P10c mags are out of stock. They dropped prices end of last year/earlier this year. Standard mags 15/19 round mags rival Glock mag prices.

I must say a P10c and a P07 combo have been calling my name as of late. Poor mans VP9/P30.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Don’t forget to include the cost of the Cajun trigger kit. [emoji3]


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Not sure if that was meant to be sarcastic, but I don't think stock CZ's are in need of any substantial mods to be good to go for any typical purposes you would use a handgun for.

My primary do everything handgun this past year has been a P-01 omega. It has the full defensive carry package from CGW, along with milling for an EPS. The trigger is straight up excellent both DA and SA, puts a smile on my face in dryfire.

I recently picked up a spare. Lightly used and totally stock. I added a CGW FPRP, extended FP, lighter HS. I've been dryfiring and shooting the spare frame with the dotted slide basically exclusively since getting it.

My experience has been that my performance is a little worse with the nearly stock model, but only very slightly. I'm talking the degree of performance difference that only the type of person that trains regularly with a timer would be able to notice. Definitely not enough that I feel any less well armed carrying the nearly stock gun. Without a shadow of a doubt, the dot makes a far far greater performance difference than trigger mods.

Those mods cost under $40, and if you add them to the cost of the Nocturne your still at under the price of a G19MOS. For a gun that I personally feel far safer carrying and can shoot substantially better. If you want an SCD for the Glock, then the Glock is suddenly substantially pricier.

[krav51]

Is it just me or does the manual safety look a little larger with more of a shelf? I've always wanted to try one of these and run it in SA only but the safety was entirely too thin.

[Le Français]

Being obligated to carry Glocks has saved me so much money, it should be considered part of my compensation package at this point. I would not be able to resist something like this otherwise.

[awp_101]

CZ GOES OPTICS READY WITH NEW P-09 NOCTURNE (https://www.guns.com/news/2024/08/15/cz-goes-optics-ready-with-new-p-09-nocturne)


https://youtu.be/rDXE4EKNGe4?si=2xql7e610RYRewSw

[G19Fan]

Not sure if that was meant to be sarcastic, but I don't think stock CZ's are in need of any substantial mods to be good to go for any typical purposes you would use a handgun for.

My primary do everything handgun this past year has been a P-01 omega. It has the full defensive carry package from CGW, along with milling for an EPS. The trigger is straight up excellent both DA and SA, puts a smile on my face in dryfire.

I recently picked up a spare. Lightly used and totally stock. I added a CGW FPRP, extended FP, lighter HS. I've been dryfiring and shooting the spare frame with the dotted slide basically exclusively since getting it.

My experience has been that my performance is a little worse with the nearly stock model, but only very slightly. I'm talking the degree of performance difference that only the type of person that trains regularly with a timer would be able to notice. Definitely not enough that I feel any less well armed carrying the nearly stock gun. Without a shadow of a doubt, the dot makes a far far greater performance difference than trigger mods.

Those mods cost under $40, and if you add them to the cost of the Nocturne your still at under the price of a G19MOS. For a gun that I personally feel far safer carrying and can shoot substantially better. If you want an SCD for the Glock, then the Glock is suddenly substantially pricier.

Agreed 100% from my own experiences witj czs and cgw

[Lunker]

Not sure if that was meant to be sarcastic, but I don't think stock CZ's are in need of any substantial mods to be good to go for any typical purposes you would use a handgun for.


I’m not 100% sure either. I find there to be a lot of variability in the double action on these guns.
One new P07 I handled at the Kittery Trading Post not too long ago (when I was looking for a spare) was practically unshootable in double action.
The roller bearing that the trigger bar rides on can have a huge impact on the double action. CGW makes beautifully machines bearings to precise tolerances. And the CGW hammer makes the single action much crisper. I have never had the patience to take a bone stock P07 and just shoot it into smoothness. The $200 for the pro package was worth it to me. I don’t install the extended firing pin or lightened firing pin spring since it is a defensive pistol. I wish CGW still made the cheaper carry package that omitted these fp parts.


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[awp_101]

https://youtu.be/UPGZ8PUMrNw?si=wBgkR0KGYmvt0iTs

[Clusterfrack]

With a reduced power hammer spring (#18 or #15) and a bit of lubrication and break in, the stock trigger is decent. It’s not buttery smooth but when you pull it realistically fast, I don’t think that matters.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?31326-Suggestions-for-replacement-carry-piece&p=744301&viewfull=1#post744301

[JCS]

They can’t be dry fired? Wow glad I saw that. Since I started shooting Shadow 2s I’ve been wanting a da SA gun for winter carry. Looks like this will be the one.

[Noah]

They can’t be dry fired? Wow glad I saw that. Since I started shooting Shadow 2s I’ve been wanting a da SA gun for winter carry. Looks like this will be the one.

I know Clusterfrack competes with S2s and carries P07s very happily

[Clusterfrack]

They can’t be dry fired? Wow glad I saw that. Since I started shooting Shadow 2s I’ve been wanting a da SA gun for winter carry. Looks like this will be the one.

All you need is half an earplug between the FP and hammer.

[Clusterfrack]

They are convertible to use a safety and it's included with purchase. Good ole' CZ Omega. I dunno if there are extended ones via aftermarket. Clusterfrack may know.

As for the OR P09; This does appeal to me as I have a free 507k free from a P365 but I'm already heading towards the HK/Beretta path for a hammer-fired gun. Tis' a shame these werent released sooner...

Just saw this. (Traveling).

No idea about aftermarket thumb safeties. I don’t use them.

[Polecat]

These look nice, I am in. Looking at the handgunhero. The slide on my G43x is same length, and grip is similar. I love the more aggressive look.

[backtrail540]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPGZ8PUMrNw

[Mirolynmonbro]

The grip texture looks really good. Those are some slippery grips

[backtrail540]

What big red dot options will direct mount to these? I'm not up on optic footprint compatibility. Will dpp stuff fit or are they just screw hole patterns that are the same and the optic body will be too long? Some of the sig optics seem to be dpp etc...romeomax pro etc....

[Noah]

What big red dot options will direct mount to these? I'm not up on optic footprint compatibility. Will dpp stuff fit or are they just screw hole patterns that are the same and the optic body will be too long? Some of the sig optics seem to be dpp etc...romeomax pro etc....

Pretty sure EPS would be the biggest.

Other companies will make plates.

[TAZ]

They can’t be dry fired? Wow glad I saw that. Since I started shooting Shadow 2s I’ve been wanting a da SA gun for winter carry. Looks like this will be the one.

Wait…. What do you mean they can’t be dry fired???


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[Clusterfrack]

Wait…. What do you mean they can’t be dry fired???


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You can dryfire but need a cushion between the hammer and FP.

[TAZ]

You can dryfire but need a cushion between the hammer and FP.

Even with snap caps?? That’s weird to say the least. What’s the story there?


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[Clusterfrack]

Even with snap caps?? That’s weird to say the least. What’s the story there?


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The firing pin retaining pin was designed by someone who didn't know about dryfire. If you dryfire the gun enough it will damage that pin and jam the firing pin. Fortunately, CGW makes an improved FP retaining pin that I have yet to destroy. And you can dryfire with an earplug or o-ring in the way.

[RealSelf]

The firing pin retaining pin was designed by someone who didn't know about dryfire. If you dryfire the gun enough it will damage that pin and jam the firing pin. Fortunately, CGW makes an improved FP retaining pin that I have yet to destroy. And you can dryfire with an earplug or o-ring in the way.

I've always wondered if the earplug route could cause any other issues with time, seems benign but you never know I guess without high cycle counts to verify.

[Clusterfrack]

I've always wondered if the earplug route could cause any other issues with time, seems benign but you never know I guess without high cycle counts to verify.

I have 10s of thousands of cycles…

[Joe in PNG]

Something for next summer.

[HeavyDuty]

Interesting - I’m partially of Czech heritage, but I’ve never gotten into CZ pistols. Must look away.

[Tackleberry40sw]

Thread drift for those that are on the fence and needed a push:

https://www.czub.cz/en/firearms-and-products-product/adapter-cz-p-07-kadet

https://www.czub.cz/en/firearms-and-products-product/adapter-cz-p-09-kadet

[RealSelf]

So they list the RMS-C as the type of optic cut (one of) but wondering if there's any reason why it wouldn't be expected to work with the Romeo-X Compact considering it's supposed to be the RMS-C footprint. Any ideas folks?

[littlejerry]

This is probably one of the more exciting pistol releases I've seen recently. Seriously tempted to add a dash of variety to my pistol stable which is currently a bunch of Glock 19s, a 43, and 42. I've been P07 curious for a while but the lack a factory optic ready solution held me back.

I had a CZ75 SAO once upon a time but sold it when I realized I had no use for it. Nice gun, just didn't want to compete with or carry it.

[mizer67]

This is probably one of the more exciting pistol releases I've seen recently. Seriously tempted to add a dash of variety to my pistol stable which is currently a bunch of Glock 19s, a 43, and 42. I've been P07 curious for a while but the lack a factory optic ready solution held me back.

I had a CZ75 SAO once upon a time but sold it when I realized I had no use for it. Nice gun, just didn't want to compete with or carry it.

I like the changes, fixes my main gripes about the P-07.

I thought the P-07 was a little underwhelming out of the box with the factory trigger.

With some CGW parts and elbow grease, it has a better trigger than my Shadow and is good fun to shoot. The CGW hammer particularly is a little spendy given the cost of the gun, but worth the price.

[WobblyPossum]

So they list the RMS-C as the type of optic cut (one of) but wondering if there's any reason why it wouldn't be expected to work with the Romeo-X Compact considering it's supposed to be the RMS-C footprint. Any ideas folks?

Why wouldn’t the Romeo X Compact be compatible? That’s the exact footprint it uses.

[GJM]

Why wouldn’t the Romeo X Compact be compatible? That’s the exact footprint it uses.

EPS full size or sealed Romeo X with the compact footprint are the two optics I would put on this pistol.

[RealSelf]

Why wouldn’t the Romeo X Compact be compatible? That’s the exact footprint it uses.

I can't see why it wouldn't but they list the Romeo Zero as compatible and no mention of the X. My guess is the X was not available when they did all the T&E so no mention of it for that reason.

[Gary1911A1]

Thread drift for those that are on the fence and needed a push:

https://www.czub.cz/en/firearms-and-products-product/adapter-cz-p-07-kadet

https://www.czub.cz/en/firearms-and-products-product/adapter-cz-p-09-kadet

Looks like they are $435 each at CZ. https://shop.cz-usa.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=+P-o7+kadet

[Tackleberry40sw]

Looks like they are $435 each at CZ. https://shop.cz-usa.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=+P-o7+kadet

Practically speaking, a Kadet 22LR upper at $435 is good investment for practice and all around fun without an additional 4473 for low cost practice and plinking. I'm on the fence debating on adding an additional platform and subsequent accessories specific to the model, tempting that it is.

[Rocky Racoon]

Don’t forget to include the cost of the Cajun trigger kit. [emoji3]


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With a reduced power hammer spring (#18 or #15) and a bit of lubrication and break in, the stock trigger is decent. It’s not buttery smooth but when you pull it realistically fast, I don’t think that matters.

I'll get one of these because they are dirt cheap and I like CZs. I had just been holding out for the factory optic cut.

I wish CZ would offer a factory performance trigger like Walther, M&P, Canik (not as an upgrade but they have better triggers in some models), etc. But I understand the Omega triggers are more complex and it's not as simple as just changing the geometry of the sear and trigger bar (as in a striker fired pistol)

I'm not likely to drop $250 at CGW on a $500 pistol. (Yes, the $500 initial purchase price should be irrelevant. It's a sunk cost - but still.) This will be all about the Dremel, polishing stones, a reduced power hammer spring and whatever other tweaks I can do at my workbench.

I get it. There are much better options if you are chasing a great trigger on a range toy/USPSA pistols. Polymer is out of fashion, and the Shadow 2 is the only thing keeping DA/SA relevant. I presume not many people are buying the P-09 in 2024 to campaign it in USPSA. So maybe a factory performance trigger doesn't make sense to CZ.

[Clusterfrack]

I get what you're saying, but have a different take.


I'll get one of these because they are dirt cheap and I like CZs. I had just been holding out for the factory optic cut.
It's remarkable that the price for the P09/c is a few $100 less than a Glock given the higher build quality of the CZ (nitrided fire control parts, frame inserts, and more).


I wish CZ would offer a factory performance trigger like Walther, M&P, Canik (not as an upgrade but they have better triggers in some models), etc. But I understand the Omega triggers are more complex and it's not as simple as just changing the geometry of the sear and trigger bar (as in a striker fired pistol)
The Omega is a very simple mechanism, and actually lends itself well to a "performance trigger". CGW makes one :D. IMO the SA pull with the Prograde package is as nice as a S2. People focus on the DA pull, and I think that's a mistake--unless it's not for life-safety use.


I'm not likely to drop $250 at CGW on a $500 pistol. (Yes, the $500 initial purchase price should be irrelevant. It's a sunk cost - but still.)
I don't look at it this way. CZ's business model is different from Glock's. CZ offers a higher quality product that's almost certainly more expensive to produce for a lower price. CGW makes a "performance trigger" that costs half of the price of the gun. So what? The final cost is ~$750-800 for a world-class TDA that is actually still safe, reliable, and durable.


This will be all about the Dremel, polishing stones, a reduced power hammer spring and whatever other tweaks I can do at my workbench.
Here's where we really differ. A lot of people grind on CZs in an attempt to make the triggers "better", and the results can be straight up unsafe--especially after the guns wear. Nitriding produces a hard surface that isn't that deep in the sear/hammer. Grind that, and you end up with softer steel. Also, I would not alter the sear geometry of a P07 or P09. If you get a chance to play with a Prograde gun, you'll see that the sear engagement is still fairly steep. I've encountered CZs where the SA trigger won't return if pulled partially. It just stays there on the edge of firing. Yikes!


I get it. There are much better options if you are chasing a great trigger on a range toy/USPSA pistols. Polymer is out of fashion, and the Shadow 2 is the only thing keeping DA/SA relevant. I presume not many people are buying the P-09 in 2024 to campaign it in USPSA. So maybe a factory performance trigger doesn't make sense to CZ.

I think TDA is still relevant beyond USPSA/IPSC. Lots of people like HK, Sig, and Beretta TDAs. The P07/09 is a strong contender among those, and the new optic-ready line makes them an even better option. And with CGW providing outstanding aftermarket parts and support, CZ's may be the current leader of the pack.

[HeavyDuty]

EPS full size or sealed Romeo X with the compact footprint are the two optics I would put on this pistol.

Are you planning to try one? I may live vicariously through you.

[Clusterfrack]

GJM, finally getting to your question about the trigger and if it can be made to drop to half-cock if the DA pull is interrupted in some way (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?32004-CZ-P09-ignition-problems/page31&p=808992#post808992). E.g. people with super long fingers.

I have one recent manufacture P07 that has slightly differently colored fire control parts. I cannot make it do the half-cock thing no matter what I do. So, I'm hopeful that the new line will be the same.

(The trigger reach on these guns is short, good for us with smaller hands.)

[GJM]

I will likely get one to experiment with, as I like DA/SA and polymer pistols. The improvements are welcome.

I think the comparisons to the current Glock 19 don’t fly — cheaper, higher quality, safer, easier to shoot. The Glock 19 is the last gun in the world I would give up, and is a 99% solution to most with the need for a mid size pistol. The CZ is an enthusiast gun and is competing for a percent or two of strikers sales.

[Rocky Racoon]

Here's where we really differ. A lot of people grind on CZs in an attempt to make the triggers "better", and the results can be straight up unsafe--especially after the guns wear. Nitriding produces a hard surface that isn't that deep in the sear/hammer. Grind that, and you end up with softer steel. Also, I would not alter the sear geometry of a P07 or P09. If you get a chance to play with a Prograde gun, you'll see that the sear engagement is still fairly steep. I've encountered CZs where the SA trigger won't return if pulled partially. It just stays there on the edge of firing. Yikes!


I agree with most of what you said. And I know the old warnings about Dremels and DIY gunsmithing. But Dremels are incredibly useful in polishing and smoothing any surface that isn't flat. I won't be grinding anything.

[Biggy]

It would not surprise me if we also see the new updated version of the P10c drop between now and SHOT 25. I have one fully Cajunized P01 Omega and two fully Cajunized P07’s (iron sights) that I really like and are accurate and reliable. If I had to choose between them or a P10c with a SCD or a Glock Gen5 G19 with a SCD, *my* preference would be to keep my striker fired pistols. But since I don’t have to choose between them, I am keeping them all. LOL !

[Willard]

I think the comparisons to the current Glock 19 don’t fly — cheaper, higher quality, safer, easier to shoot.

Couldn’t quite get what you meant. Understood point on G19 but is above true or untrue and of which gun? Wasn’t following context clues I suppose. Thanks.

[Lunker]

(The trigger reach on these guns is short, good for us with smaller hands.)

Big hands, stubby fingers = me

The P07 with medium grip is as close to perfect as a pistol has ever fit my hand. I was shooting it side-by-side with my PX4 compact today, and even though the Beretta is softer recoiling and flatter shooting, I was still faster back on target and more accurate with the CZ. There is something about that rounded Beretta PX4 grip that I can’t seem to fully embrace.
I keep thinking that I should dive in all the way on one platform or the other, One of the things that held me back on committing to the CZ was it seemed like CZ were going to retire the P07 /P09 lines. Glad to see that is not the case.
I guess the good news is I don’t really have to pick one or the other. :)


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[TheNewbie]

For most people, at least for self defense purposes, it’s my opinion that the P-07 is good enough as is. Certainly one can get even better results with the variety of enhancements offered by Cajun Gun Works, but the gun just works as is. It would be nice if you could dry fire it without the need for an ear plug/o-ring, but that’s not a deal breaker.


The only advantages Glock has over it is simplicity and spare parts/support gear availability. Otherwise, I think that the P-07 is a far superior weapon.

Easy enough to shoot well, much safer, cheaper, fits smaller hands better, probably even more reliable to foreign debris and a bad grip.


It would have been interesting to see what would have been, if the P-07 had been released in the year 2000, and had plenty of industry support to go along with it.


It’s a great platform.

[HeavyDuty]

I’m embarrassed to say I’ve never even handled a poly frame CZ. Is that a decocker, a safety, or yes?

[Noah]

I’m embarrassed to say I’ve never even handled a poly frame CZ. Is that a decocker, a safety, or yes?

Convertible between the two

[HeavyDuty]

Convertible between the two

By the user?

[Noah]

By the user?

Yep, parts for both come in the box

[Willard]

By the user?

Forgotten Weapons video up thread details swap.

[Lunker]

By the user?

Yes. Both are included in the box. It comes installed with the decocker though.

That was a selling point for the omega trigger system. Is that it is convertible between the two.


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[Kanye Wyoming]

At least according to the CZ website, with an empty magazine the Nocturne weighs 26.1 ounces (https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-p-09-c-nocturne/), versus 27.7 (https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-p-07/) for the “legacy” P07.

I’m not sure how they might have managed to knock off 1.6 oz., but if true that’s not an insubstantial weight reduction. With 15+1 Gold Dot 124+P and a Holosun 507C (slide cut by Stonebridge), my P07 is exactly 36 oz. From that to 34.4 oz. would make it a more attractive every day choice.

Whoever gets one of these first, and mounts an optic, would you please load it up, weigh it, and let us know?

[GJM]

Couldn’t quite get what you meant. Understood point on G19 but is above true or untrue and of which gun? Wasn’t following context clues I suppose. Thanks.

If I was picking one handgun to equip one, a hundred or ten thousand people, the Gen 5 Glock 19 would be my choice. I think it is safe, well made, accurate, reliable and can be shot at a very high level. Current pistols are exceedingly consistent out of the box. The G5 19 benefits from decades of user experience and ongoing development. It is also one of the easiest pistols to user maintain, has an appropriate out of the box trigger for its mission, and is perhaps the best accessorized pistol there is.

[TAZ]

The firing pin retaining pin was designed by someone who didn't know about dryfire. If you dryfire the gun enough it will damage that pin and jam the firing pin. Fortunately, CGW makes an improved FP retaining pin that I have yet to destroy. And you can dryfire with an earplug or o-ring in the way.

Sorry to return the convo to this, but I have question/concerns. I like the CZ platform and was looking at one of these so I can have a DA/Sa jobber again. However, this wear and tear of the retaining pin thing is concerning to me. If we have this issue with snap caps, why do we think this is a safe for live fire and self defense? Is the intent there for the Fp retaining pin to be a disposable item and after a few months/thousand trigger pulls you throw it in the trash and move long?

[Mjolnir]

Wow, this is pretty exciting. This will probably get me to finally give CZ pistols an honest try. I’d given up on trying to replace my glocks, but here we go again…

I've got dibs on your P-09C if you decide you do not like it. :cool:

[Mjolnir]

At least according to the CZ website, with an empty magazine the Nocturne weighs 26.1 ounces (https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-p-09-c-nocturne/), versus 27.7 (https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-p-07/) for the “legacy” P07.

I’m not sure how they might have managed to knock off 1.6 oz., but if true that’s not an insubstantial weight reduction. With 15+1 Gold Dot 124+P and a Holosun 507C (slide cut by Stonebridge), my P07 is exactly 36 oz. From that to 34.4 oz. would make it a more attractive every day choice.

Whoever gets one of these first, and mounts an optic, would you please load it up, weigh it, and let us know?

I handled one today and the stock "feels" somehow (ever so slightly) "smaller". It could have been the backstop was a small and not a medium. If I were wearing mine I could have given a direct comparison. I thought about purchasing it ($549) but I could order it from Cajun Gunworks and drive up to East Monroe and pick her up with their premium trigger package. Id keep iron sights on it I think. It would make a nice Glock 19 replacement for AIWB. AWESOME fun guns to shoot.

[Redhat]

At least according to the CZ website, with an empty magazine the Nocturne weighs 26.1 ounces (https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-p-09-c-nocturne/), versus 27.7 (https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-p-07/) for the “legacy” P07.

I’m not sure how they might have managed to knock off 1.6 oz., but if true that’s not an insubstantial weight reduction. With 15+1 Gold Dot 124+P and a Holosun 507C (slide cut by Stonebridge), my P07 is exactly 36 oz. From that to 34.4 oz. would make it a more attractive every day choice.

Whoever gets one of these first, and mounts an optic, would you please load it up, weigh it, and let us know?

The new slide serrations on the top may have shaved off some weight. Plus the rds cut, especially if it has a polymer cover.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I’m embarrassed to say I’ve never even handled a poly frame CZ. Is that a decocker, a safety, or yes?



Convertible between the two

Understand that you can have either/or, but not both. With the safety installed, the weapon has to be manually decocked.

For me, personally, the decocker is too much of a reach for my short thumb. It would be better for me with the paddle on the rear of the axle, like the metal guns.

[Clusterfrack]

Sorry to return the convo to this, but I have question/concerns. I like the CZ platform and was looking at one of these so I can have a DA/Sa jobber again. However, this wear and tear of the retaining pin thing is concerning to me. If we have this issue with snap caps, why do we think this is a safe for live fire and self defense? Is the intent there for the Fp retaining pin to be a disposable item and after a few months/thousand trigger pulls you throw it in the trash and move long?

Good questions. Answers below:


This isn't a problem with live rounds because the FP doesn't touch the retaining pin during normal operation. Occasional dryfire isn't a problem either, even with the OEM roll pin.
The OEM FP retaining pin should probably be replaced when the upper is fully stripped.
You can test the FP retaining pin for damage by pushing a 2mm punch through the pin. If it binds that's a sign that the pin is getting damaged.
The CGW FP retaining pin (https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/) is tempered steel, and can withstand a decent amount of dryfire. I still use a half earplug.

[RMN1162]

Sorry to return the convo to this, but I have question/concerns. I like the CZ platform and was looking at one of these so I can have a DA/Sa jobber again. However, this wear and tear of the retaining pin thing is concerning to me. If we have this issue with snap caps, why do we think this is a safe for live fire and self defense? Is the intent there for the Fp retaining pin to be a disposable item and after a few months/thousand trigger pulls you throw it in the trash and move long?

Wear and tear only happen when not protecting the firing pin during dry-fire, when nothing is cushioning the firing pin.
TLDR; snap cap, earplug, or o-ring is necessary in ANY gun while dry-firing. If you opt out, you’re the one doing the damage, not a faulty design.

[Redhat]

Good questions. Answers below:


This isn't a problem with live rounds because the FP doesn't touch the retaining pin during normal operation. Occasional dryfire isn't a problem either, even with the OEM roll pin.
The OEM FP retaining pin should probably be replaced when the upper is fully stripped.
You can test the FP retaining pin for damage by pushing a 2mm punch through the pin. If it binds that's a sign that the pin is getting damaged.
The CGW FP retaining pin (https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/) is tempered steel, and can withstand a decent amount of dryfire. I still use a half earplug.


Back around 2003 when I got my first CZ, a model 75B in .40S&W, it came with a pack of plastic snap caps that had replacement hard rubber type primers.

[psalms144.1]

Back around 2003 when I got my first CZ, a model 75B in .40S&W, it came with a pack of plastic snap caps that had replacement hard rubber type primers.The last P07 I bought had similar. IIRC, it was an aluminum snap cap with a resin "primer"

[TAZ]

Thanks for all the DF replies. I use snap caps for all my dry fire training, so it seems like low risk, but still worth routine inspection


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[willie]

Cajun Gunworks sells a hardened retaining pin but still recommends using snap caps or an O ring. When using an O ring with my PO1, I noticed that the ring could drop into the action through a space not found in the PCR.

[TheNewbie]

Would these fit a Safariland 6360 ALS holster made for legacy models?

[Redhat]

Would these fit a Safariland 6360 ALS holster made for legacy models?

Which legacy models are you referring too? P09/07, P07 Duty?

Don't know if a definitive answer is possible yet.

[TheNewbie]

Which legacy models are you referring too? P09/07, P07 Duty?

Don't know if a definitive answer is possible yet.


P-07. Guess you could call it “Gen 2”.

Actually I would be happy with a “Gen 2” P-07, especially if they had them at discounted rates.


The prices of the new version are rather nice though.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Thanks for all the DF replies. I use snap caps for all my dry fire training, so it seems like low risk, but still worth routine inspection


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I put the CGW FPRP in all my CZ's.

My P-09 has the most dryfire pulls, I don't know how many, but its certainly well into the thousands, probably over 10k. I don't use snap caps or any other cushioning method.

I've never had a CGW FPRP fail. Sometime soon I'll replace the FPRP in my P-09 and I'll post pics of it here if there is any severe wear.

[Redhat]

I put the CGW FPRP in all my CZ's.

My P-09 has the most dryfire pulls, I don't know how many, but its certainly well into the thousands, probably over 10k. I don't use snap caps or any other cushioning method.

I've never had a CGW FPRP fail. Sometime soon I'll replace the FPRP in my P-09 and I'll post pics of it here if there is any severe wear.

How much trouble is it to replace?

[TicTacticalTimmy]

How much trouble is it to replace?

You just drive out the old pin with a roll pin punch and drive in the new one. It is tight.

[Clusterfrack]

I put the CGW FPRP in all my CZ's.

My P-09 has the most dryfire pulls, I don't know how many, but its certainly well into the thousands, probably over 10k. I don't use snap caps or any other cushioning method.

I've never had a CGW FPRP fail. Sometime soon I'll replace the FPRP in my P-09 and I'll post pics of it here if there is any severe wear.


How much trouble is it to replace?

As TicTacticalTimmy said, I don't find it difficult at all. All you need is a 3/32" or 3mm punch to drive the old pin out (R to L). There are a few things to pay attention to:

FP roll pin must be inserted with the gap at 12:00, facing the top of the slide.
The firing pin must be pressed flat at the back of the slide where the hammer hits it, as you drive the new pin in (L to R). I use a wood clamp and a .32ACP brass, which fits perfectly inside the hammer recess.

[Clusterfrack]

As TicTacticalTimmy said, I don't find it difficult at all. All you need is a 3/32" or 3mm punch. There are a few things to pay attention to:

FP roll pin must be inserted with the gap at 12:00, facing the top of the slide.
The firing pin must be pressed flat at the back of the slide where the hammer hits it, as you drive the new pin in. I use a wood clamp and a .32ACP brass, which fits perfectly inside the hammer recess.



One more thing: the OEM firing pin has a sharp edge that hits the roll pin during dryfire. That's what fucks it up. The CGW extended firing pin is rounded at that spot, so it's nicer to the roll pin.

[Bucky]

As TicTacticalTimmy said, I don't find it difficult at all. All you need is a 3/32" or 3mm punch. There are a few things to pay attention to:

FP roll pin must be inserted with the gap at 12:00, facing the top of the slide.
The firing pin must be pressed flat at the back of the slide where the hammer hits it, as you drive the new pin in. I use a wood clamp and a .32ACP brass, which fits perfectly inside the hammer recess.


Do you use a specific roll pin punch? I find them to be useful.

[Clusterfrack]

Do you use a specific roll pin punch? I find them to be useful.

Here's what I use:

3/32" or 3mm punch to remove the FP roll pin (from R to L), and to check that the firing pin is properly aligned before re-installing.
Hollow roll pin starter punch for the first 1/4", confirm that the roll pin gap is at 12:00, facing the top of the slide. Insert from L to R.
Bare hammer until the pin is almost all the way in.
Ball-headed pin punch to fully insert.


Everything can be done with a single punch if needed. My field kit includes a 3mm.

[Clusterfrack]

Answering a good question that came by PM:

Q: Would it be possible to use the new solid pin to tap out the old roll pin? Seems like that might keep everything aligned.

A: I think that would work in a pinch but I wouldn't recommend it. The P-09 Armorer's Manual recommends removing the FPRP by pushing it out R to L, and installing it from L to R. And since you're removing the FPRP, that's a good time to detail strip and clean the slide anyway. Lining up the pin gap and the firing pin is super easy.

[Lunker]

Answering a good question that came by PM:

Q: Would it be possible to use the new solid pin to tap out the old roll pin? Seems like that might keep everything aligned.

A: I think that would work in a pinch but I wouldn't recommend it. The P-09 Armorer's Manual recommends removing the FPRP by pushing it out R to L, and installing it from L to R. And since you're removing the FPRP, that's a good time to detail strip and clean the slide anyway. Lining up the pin gap and the firing pin is super easy.
Clusterfrack
Do you have a source for that CZ P09 Armorer’s Manual? I put my email on the back order notification list over a year ago on the CZ website, and never heard anything.


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[Clusterfrack]

Clusterfrack
Do you have a source for that CZ P09 Armorer’s Manual? I put my email on the back order notification list over a year ago on the CZ website, and never heard anything.


No, I got mine at CZ-USA and they are out of stock. Maybe a new one is in the works for the updated model?

[LockedBreech]

I'm definitely committing to getting one of these after consideration and reading. I've wanted a P-07 since it had "duty" on the slide when I tried one in college. It just always got bumped down the wishlist.

My stupid, annoying-even-to-me two years on the market before purchase rule I'll probably revise down to 1, since the gun it is based on has been doing great for years.

[Polecat]

Let’s hope they make an even smaller one, as maube like polymer RAMI replacement. Maybe be the first “ micro” DA/ SA!

[Tannhauser]

Let’s hope they make an even smaller one, as maube like polymer RAMI replacement. Maybe be the first “ micro” DA/ SA!

That would be a very interesting little pistol.

There was a time when I really wanted a RAMI, but the cost, scarcity and some reports of problem guns meant I never seriously pursued one.

[Polecat]

While we are talking about CZs. I have not owned one in a while, but they are fun. I like that sometimes in the very non descript case you will find a gem, like a well done over CZ custom, etc. Recently there was an all steel P01 sitting in the case for 500.00. It lasted about two weeks. I did rent a TS2 the other day, and it was the arrow not the indian! It was big at 48oz., but crazy accurate. I have not seen any of the new nocturnes locally yet, but I am interested.

[G19Fan]

While we are talking about CZs. I have not owned one in a while, but they are fun. I like that sometimes in the very non descript case you will find a gem, like a well done over CZ custom, etc. Recently there was an all steel P01 sitting in the case for 500.00. It lasted about two weeks. I did rent a TS2 the other day, and it was the arrow not the indian! It was big at 48oz., but crazy accurate. I have not seen any of the new nocturnes locally yet, but I am interested.

The ts2 are ridiculous guns lol

Use to shoot watermelons at 100 and 150 with one many many years ago (irons)

[Whiskey_Bravo]

Local shop got a P-09 Noc. Compact in. It feels outstanding in the hands. The new slide serrations feel and look great as well. Optics cut is LOW. I would suspect that the factory sights would work with an EPS, but probably just the top edges of the sights would cowitness.

I did dryfire it since I wasn't buying it. Trigger was good, but not great. Pretty typical P-07/P-09 trigger. Decocker was very positive and tactile.

I really liked the gun overall. It reminded me of a hammer-fired Walther PDP almost. In a good way.

[GmanVP9]

Local shop got a P-09 Noc. Compact in. It feels outstanding in the hands. The new slide serrations feel and look great as well. Optics cut is LOW. I would suspect that the factory sights would work with an EPS, but probably just the top edges of the sights would cowitness.

I did dryfire it since I wasn't buying it. Trigger was good, but not great. Pretty typical P-07/P-09 trigger. Decocker was very positive and tactile.

I really liked the gun overall. It reminded me of a hammer-fired Walther PDP almost. In a good way.

How does the compact compare in size to the P-07?

[Whiskey_Bravo]

How does the compact compare in size to the P-07?

There is no discernable difference from what I could tell.

[mrozowjj]

From what I can tell there is nothing hugly different about this one. Trigger seems to be the same, grip texture is different, slide cuts are different, now cut for an optic, the slide release and safety have a slightly different shape. All welcome changes but kind of funny they are branding it like it's new model.


By the user?

Yes but that's always been the case with the P07 and P09

[G19Fan]

Local shop got a P-09 Noc. Compact in. It feels outstanding in the hands. The new slide serrations feel and look great as well. Optics cut is LOW. I would suspect that the factory sights would work with an EPS, but probably just the top edges of the sights would cowitness.

I did dryfire it since I wasn't buying it. Trigger was good, but not great. Pretty typical P-07/P-09 trigger. Decocker was very positive and tactile.

I really liked the gun overall. It reminded me of a hammer-fired Walther PDP almost. In a good way.

I don't think I have a use for a da/sa gun but if I did the p07/p09c would be the leading candidate

[omega9]

Let’s hope they make an even smaller one, as maube like polymer RAMI replacement. Maybe be the first “ micro” DA/ SA!

When I read that they renamed the P-07 the P-09C my first thought was that a P-09S is on the way.

[Noah]

Local shop got a P-09 Noc. Compact in. It feels outstanding in the hands. The new slide serrations feel and look great as well. Optics cut is LOW. I would suspect that the factory sights would work with an EPS, but probably just the top edges of the sights would cowitness.

I did dryfire it since I wasn't buying it. Trigger was good, but not great. Pretty typical P-07/P-09 trigger. Decocker was very positive and tactile.

I really liked the gun overall. It reminded me of a hammer-fired Walther PDP almost. In a good way.

Cowitness guide:


https://youtu.be/MpVNbr-hFKc?si=hky4OXWLYsBZM_Kt

[GmanVP9]

I read the Holosun doesn't need a plate and mounts directly to the slide. Awesome if true


Are these officially released?

[Noah]

I read the Holosun doesn't need a plate and mounts directly to the slide. Awesome if true


Are these officially released?

Yes and yes- watch the video above.

It is a direct cut for the Holosun K footprint.

So it fits the 407K, 507K, EPS and EPS carry, as well as all Shield RMSC footprint optics like the Vortex Defender CCW or whatever the small one is called

[GmanVP9]

Im at work. Can't watch right now! But good to know!

[Lunker]

I held a new P09 Nocturne at a local gun shop today. For all the improved controls and texture, it is remarkably similar to a P07. :).
I didn’t feel like I had to run out and buy the new style decocker and slide release to retrofit onto my old guns.
I want to support CZ for making what many of us have been asking for, but I have two P07’s already.
Maybe the fullsize is the ticket?

[GmanVP9]

I held a new P09 Nocturne at a local gun shop today. For all the improved controls and texture, it is remarkably similar to a P07. :).
I didn’t feel like I had to run out and buy the new style decocker and slide release to retrofit onto my old guns.
I want to support CZ for making what many of us have been asking for, but I have two P07’s already.
Maybe the fullsize is the ticket?

I believe the P-09C is replacing the P-07

[Lunker]

I believe the P-09C is replacing the P-07

Yes, you are correct. I did not use my sarcasm emoji and should’ve. :)
The P09 Compact Nocturne is a slightly fancier P07. All internals are the same.


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[GmanVP9]

Yes, you are correct. I did not use my sarcasm emoji and should’ve. :)
The P09 Compact Nocturne is a slightly fancier P07. All internals are the same.


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Actually sent you a DM

[ralph]

I just picked one up yesterday, can anyone confirm that they can use Sig 320? I think sights as replacements?
I traded a PCR for the p-09c. So far, I’ve had 2 PCR’s and a p-07, of the two, I’ve regretted selling the p-07, never really missed the PCR’s…

[awp_101]

You can dryfire but need a cushion between the hammer and FP.
I don't remember, this is only a concern with the P07/09 line and not the 75 series right?

[Clusterfrack]

I don't remember, this is only a concern with the P07/09 line and not the 75 series right?

I'm not an expert on the older CZs, but I think any model with a firing pin roll pin shouldn't be dry fired without protection and/or a CGW FPRP.

[GmanVP9]

I don't remember, this is only a concern with the P07/09 line and not the 75 series right?

People put a o-ring or ear plug where the hammer meets firing pin

[Redhat]

I'm not an expert on the older CZs, but I think any model with a firing pin roll pin shouldn't be dry fired without protection and/or a CGW FPRP.

It was the same warning for my 75B.

[awp_101]

I'm not an expert on the older CZs, but I think any model with a firing pin roll pin shouldn't be dry fired without protection and/or a CGW FPRP.

I had my 75 Compact out this morning and it does have a roll pin firing pin retainer so the half earplug still sitting on my desk from the last P07 I owned will have a new home shortly. :D And CZ Custom sells solid replacements for the 75 series so I'll look at getting one if this one hangs around the safe long enough.

[Clusterfrack]

I had my 75 Compact out this morning and it does have a roll pin firing pin retainer so the half earplug sitting on my desk from the last P07 I owned will have a new home shortly. :D And CZ Custom sells solid replacements for the 75 series so I'll look at one if this one hangs around the safe long enough.

The solid pins are problematic. I recommend the tempered CGW roll pin.

[awp_101]

The solid pins are problematic. I recommend the tempered CGW roll pin.

Duly noted, vielen dank! :cool:

[GJM]

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/cz-new-p-09-c-nocturne-what-we-didnt-like/

[GmanVP9]

I don't understand why they didn't fix that trigger in this update

[HeavyDuty]

Is the DA trigger any worse than a stock P30? That’s my measure.

I’m guessing there are tuning tricks for these. I’m going to be at a big Cabella’s today, hopefully they will have one in the case I can check out but I’m sure it will have a trigger lock.

[G19Fan]

I don't understand why they didn't fix that trigger in this update

I don't even think the stock p07 trigger is bad. Perfectly fine for self.defense and wears in nicely. Fine for carry

A lot of gun reviews also can't shoot that well

[GmanVP9]

I don't even think the stock p07 trigger is bad. Perfectly fine for self.defense and wears in nicely. Fine for carry

A lot of gun reviews also can't shoot that well

Thats fair, I just figured slightly better improvement can't hurt

[G19Fan]

Thats fair, I just figured slightly better improvement can't hurt

Not saying the stock trigger is great. But for self defense use works fine.

I am also relatively easy for triggers. I love a glock and p365 trigger

[GmanVP9]

Not saying the stock trigger is great. But for self defense use works fine.

I am also relatively easy for triggers. I love a glock and p365 trigger

I own a DA revolver (686) that long first pull kinda sucked..but you get used to it, but I grew up with striker fired so

[G19Fan]

I own a DA revolver (686) that long first pull kinda sucked..but you get used to it, but I grew up with striker fired so

Me too. I like rolling striker break vs a hard wall I have learned. Esp for shooting fast. Wall easier to stage slow distant fire but rolling break preferred even for that now

[Clusterfrack]

I don't understand why they didn't fix that trigger in this update
I don't think there's anything to fix. The CZ Omega DA/SA trigger is a remarkably simple and well-engineered system. The trigger is highly functional, but not a "feel good" experience when pulled unrealistically slow. Think Glock of TDAs. With some break-in, lubrication, and an 18# spring the DA pull gets a lot better. See my quote from an earlier thread below.


Is the DA trigger any worse than a stock P30? That’s my measure.

I’m guessing there are tuning tricks for these. I’m going to be at a big Cabella’s today, hopefully they will have one in the case I can check out but I’m sure it will have a trigger lock.

DA is similar to a p30 out of the box but gets better with the treatment below. SA is better than a p30.

The CGW Prograde kit and associated parts turn the 07/09 into a world class TDA. I'd rather take a super tough shot with one of my Prograde P07s in DA mode than with a Glock.

"Tuning" involving bending springs and grinding sears turns the 07/09 into a problem waiting to happen. I do not do any of that.


I don't even think the stock p07 trigger is bad. Perfectly fine for self.defense and wears in nicely. Fine for carry

A lot of gun reviews also can't shoot that well

Agree, and a lot of people focus on 'princess-and-the-pea' trigger mechanics while pulling the trigger unrealistically slow.


...the break-in process:
I cleaned the gun, lubricated the action with Lucas grease and oil. Then I dryfired the gun in DA for a few hundred cycles. Think of this as a workout for your trigger fingers. I used compressed air to blow out the sear area, and re-lubricated with grease.

Next, focusing on rough spots in the single action pull, I worked the trigger repeatedly without dropping the hammer.

The result was dramatic. DA pull dropped from over 13# to 8#, the low end of the published spec for this gun. The SA pull smoothed out as well. Now if you aren't familiar with them, the OEM gun is hard to distinguish from the CGW ProGrade gun. The CGW P-07 has a crisper SA break, and a slightly shorter reset.

Am I glad I spent the time and money to install a ProGrade kit on one gun? Absolutely. The gun is amazing. And it was worth it to learn how the P-07 works and to gain confidence in the design. It's a remarkably simple and well-engineered system. I especially like the ability to tune the weight of the SA pull using the CGW increased weight sear springs ( "https :/ /cajungunworks.com/product/50020-p0709-increased-weight-sear-spring/"). Since I carry it, I chose the heaviest 0.020" spring to increase the SA pull to 4# in the ProGrade gun (stock weight is listed as 3.3 - 5.5lbs).

Happy to answer more questions.

[Hambo]

Coming from a Beretta background, the trigger is no big deal to me. My biggest complaint is lack of extra magazines, which can always be a CZ thing.

[Clusterfrack]

...extra magazines, which can always be a CZ thing.

p10c mags are the same part. About $30 each. And the 07/09c is compatible with CZ-75 mags. 17 rounders stick out the bottom and are a slightly loose in the magwell, but I've shot 1000's of rounds that way without a problem. Even my 23 round Shadow2 MBX mags work fine.

[Clusterfrack]

[Now with updated links that actually work]
Answering a PM about what parts I use and where to get them...

Cajun Gunworks (CGW) is the worldwide leader in parts and aftermarket support for the P07/09. They invested in serious R&D, and their parts not only improve performance--they are equally reliable and more durable. Dave at CGW is super helpful about answering any questions, but can be a little grumpy.

ProGrade kit (https://cajungunworks.com/product/p-07-p-09-pro-grade-package/). I prefer the OEM trigger shoe. All 8 P-07s I've installed kits on use the 0.220" roller.

Tool steel sear pin (https://cajungunworks.com/product/sear-pin-p-07-p-09/) (seems to make for a more even wear pattern on the sear/hammer surfaces)

FP Roll Pin (https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/) (get extra)

Guide Rod
https://cajungunworks.com/product/97040-fits-p-07/

Hammer Springs (OEM is 20#)
I use 15# (https://cajungunworks.com/product/hs-15-gold-15-hammer-spring/). With the extended firing pin, this will ignite even CCI-41 military rifle primers. A 13# (https://cajungunworks.com/product/hs-13-blue-13-hammer-spring/) will work for soft Fed primers, but for a life-safety gun I like a large margin.
A 18# (https://cajungunworks.com/product/hs-18-cgw-yellow-18-hammer-spring/) should work with the OEM firing pin, and significantly improves the DA pull.

Recoil springs (I use 15#)
https://cajungunworks.com/product/recoil-spring-for-p-07-09-and-p-10-c/

Recoil spring choice:
https://cajungunworks.com/how-to-select-the-proper-recoil-spring/

TractionGrips grip tape:
http://www.tractiongrips.com/catalog/i71.html
https://amazon.com/dp/B01312ZRJ2/

New CGW trigger bar spring that I haven't tried yet:
https://cajungunworks.com/product/trigger-bar-spring-for-p-07-p-09-omega/

New heavy FP block springs that I haven't tried yet. These increase the SA pull.
https://cajungunworks.com/product/firing-pin-block-plunger-spring-tuning-kit/

P10c/P-07/P-09c 15rd Mags $33
https://gregcotellc.com/cart/cz-factory-mecgar-actmag-c-173/cz-p10-c-reverse-or-cz-p07-9mm-15-rd-factory-magazine-11420-p-1782.html


Here’s a list of quality tools for working on the P-07:

Stanley-Proto J48332 3/32-Inch Super-Duty Punch
http://a.co/gKTJoil

Stanley-Proto J48018 1/8-Inch Super-Duty Punch
http://a.co/1AmUbbI

Mayhew Pro 21232 2mm Metric Punch
http://a.co/cocuTde

Red Iron Tactical Roll Pin Starter Punch Set Hollow End Stainless Steel
http://a.co/371ZtXK

Pilot ball end punch
https://www.amazon.com/Mayhew-Pro-25017-Pilot-Punch/dp/B008M22FII

Tool for installation of decocker spring. (This makes an annoying step easy)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016A8I8HC/

Armorers Manual (https://shop.cz-usa.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=+ARMORERS+MANUAL), very helpful but not currently available. I'm guessing an updated manual will be released eventually.

Disassembly & polishing (MCarbo). I have not done the polishing shown in this video. I believe MCarbo sources their parts from CGW.
https://youtu.be/ItBrQ8ADZSY

[GmanVP9]

Damn bro! Great reply, thanks!

Did you notice a Major upgrade with this new configuration you're running? Also, reliability is still the same. I take it? Still confident as a EDC.?

[Clusterfrack]

Damn bro! Great reply, thanks!

Did you notice a Major upgrade with this new configuration you're running? Also, reliability is still the same. I take it? Still confident as a EDC.?

Glad to help. I’m thrilled that the P07/09 has new life as an optics ready platform. It’s my favorite carry gun, regardless of price.

Major upgrade? Sort of. It takes an acceptable DA/SA and makes it excellent. Depends on what you’re looking for. With all the parts listed above, we’re looking at ~$850.

Reliability has been equivalent, which means virtually perfect, Glock level reliability. And I’ve treated mine quite rough.

Mike Pannone used to shoot a Prograde P07, and I think shot over 50k without issue.

[krav51]

Has anyone converted a nocturn to SAO? Wondering if there is any difference with regard to the safety on/off feel or ergos.

[GmanVP9]

Glad to help. I’m thrilled that the P07/09 has new life as an optics ready platform. It’s my favorite carry gun, regardless of price.

Major upgrade? Sort of. It takes an acceptable DA/SA and makes it excellent. Depends on what you’re looking for. With all the parts listed above, we’re looking at ~$850.

Reliability has been equivalent, which means virtually perfect, Glock level reliability. And I’ve treated mine quite rough.

Mike Pannone used to shoot a Prograde P07, and I think shot over 50k without issue.

I feel like the polymer hammer fired stuff is unique with a certain cult following and CZ is for hipsters so it makes sense lol.

If I only wanted to start with lightly modding like a springs or something without going all out on a kit, would that help? Or am I better off waiting for everything?

[Clusterfrack]

I feel like the polymer hammer fired stuff is unique with a certain cult following and CZ is for hipsters so it makes sense lol.

If I only wanted to start with lightly modding like a springs or something without going all out on a kit, would that help? Or am I better off waiting for everything?

You calling me a gun hipster? I'll own it.

You could try the lube and break-in procedure I posted above, and an 18# hammer spring. While you're ordering from CGW, you should buy a few of their tempered FP roll pins (see parts list above).

[Clusterfrack]

Has anyone converted a nocturn to SAO? Wondering if there is any difference with regard to the safety on/off feel or ergos.

AFAIK, you can't convert a 07/90 to SAO. You can swap the decocker for the included thumb safety. That has no effect on the feel of trigger. I can't comment on the ergos of the TS because I've never used them.

[krav51]

AFAIK, you can't convert a 07/90 to SAO. You can swap the decocker for the included thumb safety. That has no effect on the feel of trigger. I can't comment on the ergos of the TS because I've never used them.

I misspoke, i meant to say convert to the manual safety from decocker. Thank you for replying

[GmanVP9]

Glad to help. I’m thrilled that the P07/09 has new life as an optics ready platform. It’s my favorite carry gun, regardless of price.

Major upgrade? Sort of. It takes an acceptable DA/SA and makes it excellent. Depends on what you’re looking for. With all the parts listed above, we’re looking at ~$850.

Reliability has been equivalent, which means virtually perfect, Glock level reliability. And I’ve treated mine quite rough.

Mike Pannone used to shoot a Prograde P07, and I think shot over 50k without issue.


You calling me a gun hipster? I'll own it.

You could try the lube and break-in procedure I posted above, and an 18# hammer spring. While you're ordering from CGW, you should buy a few of their tempered FP roll pins (see parts list above).

I was planning on that, snap cap and either O-ring or ear plug as well.

Does the updated roll pin make other parts weaker?

Why 18# spring over 15#

[Clusterfrack]

I was planning on that, snap cap and either O-ring or ear plug as well.

Does the updated roll pin make other parts weaker?

Why 18# spring over 15#

The CGW roll pin is much more durable, and can withstand a decent amount of dryfire, even with the OEM firing pin (which has a sharp edge contacting the roll pin during dryfire). The aftermarket roll pin is tempered steel and acts like a spring to cushion the FP impact. It should not negatively affect anything, assuming it's installed properly. Details on that are up thread.

Unless you also use a CGW extended firing pin, a 15# hammer spring might not reliably ignite primers--especially after it wears or if the gun is dirty.

[GmanVP9]

gotcha, 18# It is lol! thanks for all of the help. I hope my LGS gets these in soon!

[GmanVP9]

Clusterfrack how difficult is doing the trigger install and all of those upgrades??

[Clusterfrack]

Clusterfrack how difficult is doing the trigger install and all of those upgrades??

If you're not mechanically retarded, it's pretty easy. Not Glock easy, but there aren't very many parts. All you're doing is a full detail strip and swapping parts. A video helps a lot, and I think the MCarbo one I linked above should do it. CGW has a video as well I think.

Tensioning the decocker lever spring leg is one of the last steps, and it SUCKS. Unless you have a tool. I use a watch band tool (see above).

BTW I keep the OEM trigger because I like it way better than the CZ75 one they sell, and that saves a few bucks.

Or you can pay an extra $100 and buy the gun directly from CGW with the kit installed.

[jlw]

Or you can pay an extra $100 and buy the gun directly from CGW with the kit installed.

I'm considering this option.

Here's the thing though:

I have yet to handle a P07 that had the trigger the way I want it. Either the DA is too heavy but with a crisp SA, or the DA is smooth but with a creepy SA.

If I knew I could get it just like I wanted, I'd come off of the hip, but I am loath to experiment.

[Clusterfrack]

I'm considering this option.

Here's the thing though:

I have yet to handle a P07 that had the trigger the way I want it. Either the DA is too heavy but with a crisp SA, or the DA is smooth but with a creepy SA.

If I knew I could get it just like I wanted, I'd come off of the hip, but I am loath to experiment.

Break-in helps with the OEM parts. But the CGW ProGrade package makes them all virtually identical.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I'm considering this option.

Here's the thing though:

I have yet to handle a P07 that had the trigger the way I want it. Either the DA is too heavy but with a crisp SA, or the DA is smooth but with a creepy SA.

If I knew I could get it just like I wanted, I'd come off of the hip, but I am loath to experiment.

The CGW full kit will definitely give a non-creepy SA, and with appropriate polishing give a pretty smooth DA. You'll for sure get that if you order one straight from CGW. Its really a pretty good value when you look at what most "nice" handguns cost these days.

[GmanVP9]

I'm considering this option.

Here's the thing though:

I have yet to handle a P07 that had the trigger the way I want it. Either the DA is too heavy but with a crisp SA, or the DA is smooth but with a creepy SA.

If I knew I could get it just like I wanted, I'd come off of the hip, but I am loath to experiment.

Do you find the DA to be really THAT bad?

[LockedBreech]

I tend to be in the break-in camp with most guns that have rough DA triggers. My PX4 after tons of rounds is as good as any tuning job I could buy for it. The bonus of breaking-in is that you get very comfortable with how the gun shoots and what loads it likes. Win-win.

Of course, I am an absolute luddite who hates changing anything but sights and grips. Hell, it took me like a year of hemming and hawing to upgrade my 92s with the fluted Wilson guide rod, and even then I only did it after messing with a 1980s-vintage 92S and realizing that the stock design originally used a metal rod. So consider the source.

[Clusterfrack]

...I have yet to handle a P07 that had the trigger the way I want it. Either the DA is too heavy but with a crisp SA, or the DA is smooth but with a creepy SA.


Let's talk about this some more.

DA pull: The 20# OEM hammer spring is oversprung. I think it may be even heavier than 20# because the difference from a CGW 18# is so noticeable. This is almost certainly because the P07/09 has a NATO spec and needs to work with hard primers. As well, there's a significant LE and Mil market for the guns in places like Mexico where service intervals may be long or never.

Solution: 18# hammer spring, break-in, and lubrication.

SA pull: There are 3 things affecting the feel of the SA pull. 1) Hammer-sear, 2) FP safety plunger, and (3) sear spring. (1) will break in and lubrication at the sear notch makes a big difference. But the SA will never be as good as with the ProGrade kit. (2) is noticeable to trigger princesses, but doesn't make any difference when pulling fast. I use the OEM FP plunger spring, not the light CGW spring. (3) Lubricating the sear spring hole eliminates a grinding in the SA pull that some guns have or develop. (I've never seen this discussed elsewhere).

Solution: break-in, lubricate sear spring hole with grease. Or buy a ProGrade kit if you want a SA pull that's as good or better than a Shadow2.

[RMN1162]

One thought and observation here. I’ve done the fluff and buff and put the CGW full kit in. One thing that is not mentioned enough to buff is the hammer spring strut. I’ve come to believe that, after replacing the roller and buffing the end of the trigger bar, that smoothing the strut down good will significantly improve any hitches in the DA stroke as the strut moves thru the hammer spring.

[GmanVP9]

Let's talk about this some more.

DA pull: The 20# OEM hammer spring is oversprung. I think it may be even heavier than 20# because the difference from a CGW 18# is so noticeable. This is almost certainly because the P07/09 has a NATO spec and needs to work with hard primers. As well, there's a significant LE and Mil market for the guns in places like Mexico where service intervals may be long or never.

Solution: 18# hammer spring, break-in, and lubrication.

SA pull: There are 3 things affecting the feel of the SA pull. 1) Hammer-sear, 2) FP safety plunger, and (3) sear spring. (1) will break in and lubrication at the sear notch makes a big difference. But the SA will never be as good as with the ProGrade kit. (2) is noticeable to trigger princesses, but doesn't make any difference when pulling fast. I use the OEM FP plunger spring, not the light CGW spring. (3) Lubricating the sear spring hole eliminates a grinding in the SA pull that some guns have or develop. (I've never seen this discussed elsewhere).

Solution: break-in, lubricate sear spring hole with grease. Or buy a ProGrade kit if you want a SA pull that's as good or better than a Shadow2.

Im curious what an 18# spring and some lube/break-in will feel like. Thats the route I plan to go....at first anyway.

Im not saying it will happen, but I hate messing with the stock reliability of a pistol.

[ralph]

Clusterfrack

In my Po9c, I noticed the trigger return spring has a reddish color to it, I remember that this is supposed to be a improved spring, as far as durability goes. Do you know anything about that?

[GmanVP9]

Clusterfrack

Just become a guntuber already and spread that CZ knowledge

[Clusterfrack]

Clusterfrack

Just become a guntuber already and spread that CZ knowledge

123332

[Clusterfrack]

In my Po9c, I noticed the trigger return spring has a reddish color to it, I remember that this is supposed to be a improved spring, as far as durability goes. Do you know anything about that?

Those are the new ones, with some sort of lubricant coating. AFAIK, the P07 never had the CZ75 issue with trigger return spring (TRS) breaking anyway.

I use the CGW TRS, which have been super durable in my Shadow2s. Like >100,000 DA dryfire cycles. The key is keeping the coil of the TRS lightly lubricated. Binding coils creates stress in the long leg, where it typically breaks.

[ralph]

Those are the new ones, with some sort of lubricant coating. AFAIK, the P07 never had the CZ75 issue with trigger return spring (TRS) breaking anyway.

I use the CGW TRS, which have been super durable in my Shadow2s. Like >100,000 DA dryfire cycles. The key is keeping the coil of the TRS lightly lubricated. Binding coils creates stress in the long leg, where it typically breaks.

I’ve got my eye on the CGW spring kits, so far, I bought a holster, and a holosun 507k for it, I’m going to let my CC cool off a bit before I get the CGWKit.. dry firing with a o ring and the provided snap cap, it’s breaking in nicely!

[GmanVP9]

Has anyone had issues with just the snap cap?


Clusterfrack how many rounds would you say you have thru your P-07? Any issues?

[Clusterfrack]

Has anyone had issues with just the snap cap?


Clusterfrack how many rounds would you say you have thru your P-07? Any issues?

3 guns (all ProGrade kits) 7000, 6000, 3000. No issues with any of them.

[GmanVP9]

I'll keep ya'll updated when mine comes in. I have a feeling it might be awhile tho.

[1More]

As the forum P-07 Duty expert, I have to admit, when I saw the Nocturne, I had a bit of over enthusiasm. The slide work, the grip work, and the fact that it is optics ready mean......these guns were great and are even better with the OR addition. "It feels great, baby!"

[GmanVP9]

Any options to get rid of the lanyard loop?

[rm06]

It's been so long since I bought mine that I forgot they came with a lanyard ring. I recall the plastic being rather soft so I clipped it off with some diagonal cutters and sanded flat. Piece of cake.

[1More]

Any options to get rid of the lanyard loop?

For the Duty, the lanyard loop was easily eliminated by replacing with a flat hammer spring plug from the Gen 2 P07. I am sure the same option still works for the Nocturne. With the sole exception of the Gen2 trigger in the Duty, I have found that parts interchange very well across the P07 series and I expect the same for the Nocturne C. Since the Duty series, CZ has made unpublished running changes (improvements) to some parts, but it has not affected proper fitment and backwards compatibility.

[GmanVP9]

It's been so long since I bought mine that I forgot they came with a lanyard ring. I recall the plastic being rather soft so I clipped it off with some diagonal cutters and sanded flat. Piece of cake.

Sounds easy enough

[Clusterfrack]

The lanyard loop seems unnecessary. But it does make changing hammer springs easy.

[GearFondler]

The lanyard loop seems unnecessary. But it does make changing hammer springs easy.You do know about neck knives, right?
Why not a neck gun?

[emoji14]

[GmanVP9]

https://youtu.be/Lc5KqcrPi2M?si=EDMW7rvUSGa4AYIE

Sucks that he got a lemon

[Clusterfrack]

https://youtu.be/Lc5KqcrPi2M?si=EDMW7rvUSGa4AYIE

Sucks that he got a lemon

Interesting. Definitely not what I would expect either. Even my 99lb older daughter cannot make my P07s malfunction, shooting strong hand only.

[GJM]

Interesting. Definitely not what I would expect either. Even my 99lb older daughter cannot make my P07s malfunction, shooting strong hand only.

That video came up on my feed early this morning and I watched part of it in bed with the sound off. Three things come to mind:

1) he got a lemon

2) his wife was somehow gripping the pistol in a way that pushed up on the slide stop and caused the problems.

3) There are some issues with the new version of this.

I would bet on 1 or 2, but we will know more as these get out there.

[Clusterfrack]

That video came up on my feed early this morning and I watched part of it in bed with the sound off. Three things come to mind:

1) he got a lemon

2) his wife was somehow gripping the pistol in a way that pushed up on the slide stop and caused the problems.

3) There are some issues with the new version of this.

I would bet on 1 or 2, but we will know more as these get out there.

Yeah, and he said as much later in the video. And I sure wish he had done more testing before posting that. But that's not how the guntuber business model works.

There is a new slide stop, and I wonder how the ergos are on it.

[GJM]

Yeah, and he said as much later in the video. And I sure wish he had done more testing before posting that. But that's not how the guntuber business model works.

There is a new slide stop, and I wonder how the ergos are on it.

Sounds like he carried a P07 as his EDC for quite some time and really liked the pistol, so these issues caught him by surprise.

[maximus83]

That video came up on my feed early this morning and I watched part of it in bed with the sound off. Three things come to mind:

1) he got a lemon

2) his wife was somehow gripping the pistol in a way that pushed up on the slide stop and caused the problems.

3) There are some issues with the new version of this.

I would bet on 1 or 2, but we will know more as these get out there.

He speculated early in video about (2) being an issue. But as it wore on, he had a high number of stoppages himself.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Good on him for posting the video, especially given the gun was a review sample. Most guntubers would have sent the gun back first and then re-filmed their "review".

[GmanVP9]

Thats why Im a fan of his. I also like that despite his love for the M&P he had no issues mentioning the things he didn't love on the metal carry comp

[dontshakepandas]

That video came up on my feed early this morning and I watched part of it in bed with the sound off. Three things come to mind:

1) he got a lemon

2) his wife was somehow gripping the pistol in a way that pushed up on the slide stop and caused the problems.

3) There are some issues with the new version of this.

I would bet on 1 or 2, but we will know more as these get out there.

I would have liked to see him remove the optic to see if the issues persisted. I'm not sure how the mounting solution works, but perhaps a screw was too long and causing issues.

[GJM]

I would have liked to see him remove the optic to see if the issues persisted. I'm not sure how the mounting solution works, but perhaps a screw was too long and causing issues.

That is an interesting thought, and the first thing I would have checked for on a Glock installation.

[UpDok]

It looks to me like the 9mm P-09 C Nocturne has a different extractor than the older 9mm P-07 pistol. The new extractor has a loaded chamber indicator and a shorter extractor pin.

It stands to reason the new extractor design or manufacturing processes may need some tweaking.

[Clusterfrack]

It looks to me like the 9mm P-09 C Nocturne has a different extractor than the older 9mm P-07 pistol. The new extractor has a loaded chamber indicator and a shorter extractor pin.

It stands to reason the new extractor design or manufacturing processes may need some tweaking.

The LCI has been around for a while. I have 1 P07 with it, and 3 without. Might be a US market thing?

I would hope that CZ did significant testing on the new model prior to release... but who knows. Sample of 1 so far...

[TicTacticalTimmy]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ERvkWB2Ve10

Another video of the p-09c, partially a response to the OH review. Shows good results, rambling stops at 6:00 or so.

[Redhat]

Some of these guys are always suspect to me as in, did they clean and lube before firing the pistol? Also, I mostly see them using cheap 115 gr range ammo. Further, aren't most euro pistols tested with 124 gr. ammunition?

I'm also not a fan of installing the RDS /light right out of the gate.

[Clusterfrack]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ERvkWB2Ve10

Another video of the p-09c, partially a response to the OH review. Shows good results, rambling stops at 6:00 or so.

Ok, another FTFeed malfunction in this video (15:20). Two is enough to take seriously. I have a working hypothesis about what both guntubers experienced: they may be hitting the slide lock during firing. I like the old style slide lock because it's low profile. I have to either flip my grip or actuate it with my support hand. The new one looks a lot like a Shadow2 SL, with a protruding ledge. Optic screws are another possibility, but until someone take a close look at the optic mount design we can't eliminate or confirm that.

[Clusterfrack]

Some of these guys are always suspect to me as in, did they clean and lube before firing the pistol? Also, I mostly see them using cheap 115 gr range ammo. Further, aren't most euro pistols tested with 124 gr. ammunition?

I'm also not a fan of installing the RDS /light right out of the gate.

These guns shouldn't need that. The P07 slide is 25grams lighter than a Glock 19 slide, and IME mounting an optic--even a heavier one like a 509t2, with a WML--doesn't affect reliability.

[Redhat]

These guns shouldn't need that. The P07 slide is 25grams lighter than a Glock 19 slide, and IME mounting an optic--even a heavier one like a 509t2, with a WML--doesn't affect reliability.

Agree, they shouldn't but with those extra variables starting out it would give me more items to eliminate if there was a problem. I seem to recall a problem years back with WML's on Glock 22's?

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Agree, they shouldn't but with those extra variables starting out it would give me more items to eliminate if there was a problem. I seem to recall a problem years back with WML's on Glock 22's?

Except the legacy P-07 and P-09 are super reliable across all those variables. My P-09 has a tlr8 and a 407CO (heavier than most k cut optics) and has never had an issue. My first P-07 I fired all manner of the crappiest ammo I could find. I've shot multiple samples dirty/dry/etc....

Clusterfrack you may be right that in both cases they were putting upward pressure on the slidestop while firing, slowing down the slide. I could see the guy in the 2nd vid having a loose grip and hitting the slidestop, causing that one premature lockback. Makes sense given that it only happened with the heavier recoiling ammo which is when you would expect grip to come loose. However given the # of malfunctions in the honest outlaw vid I am still pretty sure he just got a lemon.

The slidestop is a wear item on these guns and I think replacements are about $30. If I find the Nocturne slidestop sticks out too much for my liking, I'll replace it with a new legacy slidestop and keep the Nocturne slidestop as a spare should I ever need it.

[G19Fan]

Not in the market for a p07 or p09 but I really enjoy the depth of system knowledge on this board

[ralph]

I haven’t had a single issue with my P-09c, granted at this point it’s only about 300rnds, and it’s all been my reloads, and it ran fine, I think Clusterfrak is probably right, in my case, the slidestop hasn’t been a problem. I did install a spring kit and extended firing pin from CGW, WOW! What a difference! Too bad they don’t come like this from the factory…

[Redhat]

For the record, my P07 has never had a stoppage either. I'm not a hater. :D

[UpDok]

I signed on to a waiting list for a new CZ 10rd P-09 C Nocturne. CZUB will surely get this FTF sorted; Honest Outlaw's "lemon" anomaly notwithstanding.

[Clusterfrack]

Another video review, this time with no malfunctions. (Thanks GJM for the heads up about this one).

I like THeHumbleMarksman, and he did a good job reviewing the P-09c. Interesting and favorable comparison with the S2 compact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A-kEZL1fMY

FYI, the trigger return spring in the P-09c, Shadow2, and other recent CZs is significantly more durable than in legacy CZ75s. As long as you keep it lightly lubricated, it should last as long as TRS's in any other gun. I agree, it's annoying that CZ didn't use a tempered FP roll pin like CGW sells. But easily fixed by replacing that part. CZ should be charging at least $650 so people stop talking about how it's a budget gun.

[HeavyDuty]

Can it be had in LEM? (Ducks)

[1More]

Can it be had in LEM? (Ducks)

USP(07) sold through their German Distributor....

[Redhat]

Another video review, this time with no malfunctions. (Thanks GJM for the heads up about this one).

I like THeHumbleMarksman, and he did a good job reviewing the P-09c. Interesting and favorable comparison with the S2 compact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A-kEZL1fMY

FYI, the trigger return spring in the P-09c, Shadow2, and other recent CZs is significantly more durable than in legacy CZ75s. As long as you keep it lightly lubricated, it should last as long as TRS's in any other gun. I agree, it's annoying that CZ didn't use a tempered FP roll pin like CGW sells. But easily fixed by replacing that part. CZ should be charging at least $650 so people stop talking about how it's a budget gun.

Haven't seen anyone talk accuracy yet. Also, I think a lot of the youtubers try to avoid the DA shot as well.

[G19Fan]

Haven't seen anyone talk accuracy yet. Also, I think a lot of the youtubers try to avoid the DA shot as well.

I don't think the most youtubers shoot a handgun well enough to do it DA or provide meaningful accuracy feedback

[GmanVP9]

I don't think the most youtubers shoot a handgun well enough to do it DA or provide meaningful accuracy feedback

Agreed. That's usually why I will base anything. I'm interested in off of what the military guys are into. Definitely makes the most sense. I stole the idea from my buddy who is a competitive shooter funny enough

[G19Fan]

Agreed. That's usually why I will base anything. I'm interested in off of what the military guys are into. Definitely makes the most sense. I stole the idea from my buddy who is a competitive shooter funny enough

Most military guys are same think though.

[GmanVP9]

Most military guys are same think though.

His Thought process is these dudes are usually a little extreme when it comes to the survival aspect of life. So they will pick the most durable well working equipment available. They don't care about the size of their grouping from 50 yards. They just care that they can hit the target and the gun will go boom

Not sure if you're into jiujitsu, but the analogy he gave me was it's like sport jiu-jitsu versus MMA jiu-jitsu. The sport guys are better at the competition aspect, but in a self-defense situation, you want to learn from the MMA guys.

Also sent you a DM when you get a second

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Handguns aren't really used in the military except in certain extremely niche groups. Military handgun training is extremely basic, "expert" in military handgun is like low D class in USPSA.

[G19Fan]

His Thought process is these dudes are usually a little extreme when it comes to the survival aspect of life. So they will pick the most durable well working equipment available. They don't care about the size of their grouping from 50 yards. They just care that they can hit the target and the gun will go boom

Not sure if you're into jiujitsu, but the analogy he gave me was it's like sport jiu-jitsu versus MMA jiu-jitsu. The sport guys are better at the competition aspect, but in a self-defense situation, you want to learn from the MMA guys.

Also sent you a DM when you get a second

Did mma for years! MMA overall is great for conditioning but mma jiu-jitsu even is silly when groups or weapons may be involved plus glass on pavement etc

Greco-Roman Roman, boxing and weapons lol

[G19Fan]

His Thought process is these dudes are usually a little extreme when it comes to the survival aspect of life. So they will pick the most durable well working equipment available. They don't care about the size of their grouping from 50 yards. They just care that they can hit the target and the gun will go boom

Not sure if you're into jiujitsu, but the analogy he gave me was it's like sport jiu-jitsu versus MMA jiu-jitsu. The sport guys are better at the competition aspect, but in a self-defense situation, you want to learn from the MMA guys.

Also sent you a DM when you get a second

Also if not mistaken less than 25% of the military are actually combat vs logistics

[GmanVP9]

Did mma for years! MMA overall is great for conditioning but mma jiu-jitsu even is silly when groups or weapons may be involved plus glass on pavement etc

Greco-Roman Roman, boxing and weapons lol

Clearly. MMA doesn't work with multiple people or weapons either lol. Its an analogy...

[GmanVP9]

Also if not mistaken less than 25% of the military are actually combat vs logistics

I should have wrote special forces. My mistake

[ralph]

124236

I put a CGW spring kit in , and with about a weeks worth of DA trigger pulling, I was able to do this,from about 7yds, cold..putting a spring kit in, really improves the pistol overall, I’m liking this so much It’s now my carry gun..

[ralph]

Well, I think I’m getting addicted to the P-09c , looking at CGW’s P09/07 parts I now have a new disconnector, and a lifter arm are coming my way. I figure this will take it up to the next level… I probably should have bought the whole kit, but at the time I didn’t know how difficult it would have been to do. After watching some videos, it looks relatively simple, with the pins being notched, and tapered the way they are, it looks literally impossible to assemble incorrectly.

[DamnYankee]

Are there any decent sights available for the Nocturne yet?

[Noah]

Are there any decent sights available for the Nocturne yet?

Is it not compatible with standard P07 and P09 sights like Dawson?

[DamnYankee]

Is it not compatible with standard P07 and P09 sights like Dawson?

No sir. Completely different sights. The front is now dovetailed in and the rear sight is farther to the rear of the slide.

[krav51]

should be picking mine up today, since ill be installing the manual safety ill either be printing or machining an extension to mount on the stock safety. Ill update with pictures ...depending on how successful i am:)

[Ichiban]

Gabe Suarez troubleshoots the problems that Chris (Honest Outlaw) was seeing with his P-09c.
Seems logical to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKs-ZmZLjMY

[Clusterfrack]

Gabe Suarez troubleshoots the problems that Chris (Honest Outlaw) was seeing with his P-09c.
Seems logical to me.


I'd like to see a detail strip of the slide to confirm that the optic screw can impinge on the extractor.

[pangloss]

I'd like to see a detail strip of the slide to confirm that the optic screw can impinge on the extractor.

i don't have one of the new Nocturnes, so I obviously have no first hand experience. However, I did have a G19.3 slide milled by Suarez in 2011, and later I bought one of the Suarez-branded slides. I think the screws came from Suarez/One Source Tactical as well. The screw lengths were a pretty big topic on WarriorTalk forum when Suarez moved heavily into the milling and slide business. I didn't have any ejection problems with my slides except for typical pre-Gen5 Glock weak ejection. In any case, if I did have a Nocturne, or probably any dot-sighted pistol, with ejection problems, the screw length is something I'd check sooner rather than later.

[krav51]

Quick question, does change to the manual safety effect the sa trigger pull? Just pick mine up last night and although the single action trigger pull isn't bad it's pretty gritty during to take up and just before it hits the wall .wondering if the removal of the decocker spring will affect that thanks in advance.

[Clusterfrack]

Quick question, does change to the manual safety effect the sa trigger pull? Just pick mine up last night and although the single action trigger pull isn't bad it's pretty gritty during to take up and just before it hits the wall .wondering if the removal of the decocker spring will affect that thanks in advance.

No, the safety/decocker has no effect on the trigger pull. Lube and break-in help a lot (see one of my upthread posts on that), but if you want a 'perfect' trigger pull you'll need the CGW Prograde kit.

[Lunker]

I find the CGW kit is a great way to learn about the inner workings of your new pistol, how the various parts interact, etc. You will discover that it is an ingeniously simple design. The first time I installed the pro kit, I went slow slowly and it took me about two hours. I can knock one out now in about 20 minutes. Between learning how your gun works, and greatly improving the single and double action trigger pulls, is a well spent $200 investment.

[awp_101]

I've skimmed through this thread but want to confirm a couple of things. The P-07 is now the P-09C and the footprint is compatible with the EPS Carry? Correct?

[Clusterfrack]

I've skimmed through this thread but want to confirm a couple of things. The P-07 is now the P-09C and the footprint is compatible with the EPS Carry? Correct?

And EPS

[awp_101]

Thanks, I never can remember the difference between the EPS and EPS Carry. :o

Just snagged one off the website of my preferred local pusher. Another place has the EPS Carry in stock so I'll try and turn a couple of unloved items into one.

[Clusterfrack]

Thanks, I never can remember the difference between the EPS and EPS Carry. :o

Just snagged one off the website of my preferred local pusher. Another place has the EPS Carry in stock so I'll try and turn a couple of unloved items into one.

I prefer the full EPS for the P-07/09c. If I can conceal a gun that's slightly bigger than a G19, the smaller EPSc won't help.

[awp_101]

I prefer the full EPS for the P-07/09c. If I can conceal a gun that's slightly bigger than a G19, the smaller EPSc won't help.

This (probably) won't be a carry piece but I'll keep that in mind.

[Archer1440]

Just note, this screw length extractor interference thing has been an issue forever, it happens on SIG 320 and 226/229 and probably any other optics mount that uses through holes rather than blind holes.

DWX, VP9 and a few others have blind holes, which provide a hard stop, immediately telling you the screw is too long. Side benefit of a blind hole is that for those using liquid Loctite, there’s no chance to have excess Loctite make its way into the works.

Blind holes are considerably less production friendly, if you’re wondering why all slides don’t use them.

[rawkguitarist]

I’ve been following the Nocturne since it was announced. I was planing on getting a Shadow 2 Compact and a Staccato C. But I’ve come back to earth and want to keep my pistols around the $600 mark. I simply love Glocks so I want to still focus on that platform.

All that said… it seems the problems with the Nocturne have been sussed out? Because this seems like the perfect DASA in my budget. Optics ready, a slightly tweaked trigger and it’d be good to go.

[awp_101]

The C uses blind holes (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?61957-The-CZ-pistol-discussion-and-general-shenanigans-thread&p=1620847&viewfull=1#post1620847)

[Clusterfrack]

I was planning on getting a Shadow 2 Compact and a Staccato C.

I'd rather have a Cajunized P-07 milled for RDS than either of those, regardless of price. I think the P09c has been out long enough that we'd know about a major design flaw. The 09c retains parts compatibility with the 07, and that makes me more confident as well. I'd buy one if I didn't already have 4 P07s.

[rawkguitarist]

I'd rather have a Cajunized P-07 milled for RDS than either of those, regardless of price. :cool: think the P09c has been out long enough that we'd know about a major design flaw. The 09c retains parts compatibility with the 07, and that makes me more confident as well. I'd buy one if I didn't already have 4 P07s.

Thanks for communicating more confidence in the P-09 C. It’s kind of a no brainer to me at this point. I just need the disposable cash and I’ll get one. I simply want a DASA to be confident in as an instructor. I also need a revolver…