P7Pro - new production P7 pattern pistols

[HeavyDuty]

https://p7pro.com/

Holy crap, talk about a labor of love.

[Ndbbm]

I’d love one of the P7k3. The price is better than those FG-42 clones someone is making, but labor of love is accurate.

Jason

[Inkwell 41]

I wish them luck. I’m still waiting on VLTOR’s version of the Bren Ten. Not ready to give up quite yet, it’s only been like… 15 years.

[PNWTO]

https://www.hkpro.com/forums/p7pro.356/

Medium-traffic subforum at the HK kool-aid fountain. Seems to well-received by the locals.

[G19Fan]

Very cool. Not sure I want it at that price but very cool

[Bucky]

I remember always wanting one because of their uniqueness, but wasn’t impressed with how they shoot.

[4RNR]

Will it take Glock mags?

Last time I had a chance at getting an affordable one was when my LGS got a batch of imports from some PD in Germany. They were kinda like olive green from what I remember, and cost just under $800. This was back in 2010-ish. Now theyre way out of my price range.

Theres a local guy here who make Lugers and hes still in business so there is a market

[WobblyPossum]

$1,000 for slide serrations. $1,000 for an optics cut with no iron sights. They offer a titanium frame for $400 less than that.

[BillSWPA]

$1,000 for slide serrations. $1,000 for an optics cut with no iron sights. They offer a titanium frame for $400 less than that.

I saw that as well. Is there something about a P7 slide that makes it particularly difficult to machine?

I have always been a fan of the P7 but have not been in a position to buy one. I hope the company does well.

[SAWBONES]

No way!

My very first firearm purchase was a NIB H&K P7M8, in 1985.
I still have it.

I wish them luck, but if an upstart company in Texas can genuinely match the accuracy, precision and reliability of the original, I'd be very surprised indeed.

[bofe954]

Cost for a standard one seems to be in line with what the HK's go for if you could find one. The customs get ridiculous but custom 2011's are pushing $5-$6K and Infinity's are pushing $10-$12K and they seem to sell every one...

[UpDok]

The production quality and know-how displayed currently and in the past from Heckler & Koch GmbH is a pretty tough act to follow.

I hope the new outfit from Texas can at least become a useful source for varieties of new P7 magazines.

[Tangodave]

I’d love one of the P7k3. The price is better than those FG-42 clones someone is making, but labor of love is accurate.

Jason


They do plan to make a K3, though not this year. P7Pro already sells an oil buffer for these.

[Tangodave]

Very cool. Not sure I want it at that price but very cool

The website's configurator does not usually represent what is available. When they started, that was the plan, but it seems to have worked out better for them to do batches. Right now, they are working on a batch that includes original, old stock steel HK frames and mixed parts from various sources, barrels made by P7Pro. This "Bulk batch" model M8 is priced at $2400 . I bought two of these.
They are starting an aluminum framed batch right now, too.
By the end of the year there will be limited numbers of M8 and M13 in diffusion hardened, titanium frames.

[Tangodave]

I saw that as well. Is there something about a P7 slide that makes it particularly difficult to machine?

I have always been a fan of the P7 but have not been in a position to buy one. I hope the company does well.

I don't know the present price of the optics slides which are soon coming out of beta. However, Novak slides are going to be the standard either now or quite soon, for the "Bulk batch" and for the Aluminum framed batch. So, I think $2400 is the price for a bulk batch model with an original HK frame and Novak Slide.

[Tangodave]

The production quality and know-how displayed currently and in the past from Heckler & Koch GmbH is a pretty tough act to follow.

I hope the new outfit from Texas can at least become a useful source for varieties of new P7 magazines.

I don't think there is any imminent plan at P7Pro to produce a magazine and due to the quality of Promag, almost everyone continues to use original HK mags and rehab them when they wear out. I would really like to see a new magazine too, because an up to date magazine could probably reliably hold and feed one or two more rounds than an HK 8+1. It is apparently a pretty big project relative to the potential sales.

[jandbj]

So many regrets for not buying the P7K3 in 2004.

[Archer1440]

Deleted. Let the market figure this out.

[ragnar_d]

I wish them luck. I’m still waiting on VLTOR’s version of the Bren Ten. Not ready to give up quite yet, it’s only been like… 15 years.
Not to derail, but that is a project I haven't thought of in years. I remember that being a big thing talked about at the first SHOT I attended. And I don't want to think about that being 15 years ago. D'oh.

[HeavyDuty]

I had a non-surplus P7PSP from 1990 or so until 2015. It was interesting, but I don’t think I’d ever buy another.

[Joe in PNG]

The P7 reminds me of the legendary Lancia Stratos- a beautiful bit of amazing engineering that is better desired than actually owned.

[BillSWPA]

The P7 reminds me of the legendary Lancia Stratos- a beautiful bit of amazing engineering that is better desired than actually owned.

I think you are correct. I have always thought the squeeze cocking action was ideal. The one I rented at a range years ago was great to shoot. However, if I am picking a gun to carry today, and if a P7 was sitting in my gun safe next to my current pistols, the P7 would be very unlikely to leave the safe.

[HeavyDuty]

My biggest disappointment was how hard it was to effectively holster OWB - the weight distribution and short slide made for a pistol that would beat you as you walked. Kydex would have been an improvement, but everything I had was leather OWB.

[Archer1440]

Lou Alessi solved that for me over 25 years ago, with a custom rig for my P7M8's. Still looks and works as well today as it did back then. Lou did some things with that rig that one might find on a modern Kydex rig, but in leather, and amazingly comfortable.

It's true that I don't shoot my P7's much anymore, but if this "P7Pro" company does well and can supply spare parts in the future, I would certainly pull them out of the safe more often.

[Screwball]

I picked one of the P7M8s up… good gun, made by a company ran by a guy who takes pride in his product. If anyone is familiar with Rudy from Macon Armory… I’d say about the same dedication.

I decided on one because I plan on carrying it. While I know a few people trust the original H&K guns, some of those guns are older than me. In my eyes, carrying something that I’d put into the collector realm is not a good move. The finish alone makes it a more better choice.

That being said, I’ll give a review when I get some more trigger time on it. Maybe next month. It wouldn’t be fair without that.

[Corse]

I bought a P7M8 a long time ago when they were cheap. It’s a great pistol and I find them to be easy to shoot and accurate. The base model of the P7Pro with the aluminum frame might make a nice carry piece. I’m interested.

[raydoctor]

Damn, I hope these run!

[Screwball]

Damn, I hope these run!

I did not have any issues in regard to reliability yesterday… fired every trigger pull.

Big thing, the P7 platform can only run ammo between 115 and 124 grain, standard pressure. The longer 147s will make the system beat the crap out of itself.

From how I was made to understand it, the longer time from firing to when gas hits the port allows the slide to begin to cycle (it is a gas delayed blowback), then the gas pressure slams it closed.

I usually shoot 147s across the board. It’s my duty load (Speer G2 and have some extra Winchester Ranger that may be in my MP5 magazines), in my 642-1 (Hornady XTP) and what I practice most of the time with (Federal Syntech). For the P7, I stocked up on 124 grain Syntech, but also have 124 grain Federal HST for carry.

[HeavyDuty]

My P7 loved 124g “NATO” loads - the ones that are hotter than most commercial, but so far as I know not +P. I bet HSTs are similar. You could almost hear the gun make happy noises as it gobbled them up…

[Screwball]

If someone were bored… 3 hours of P7 discussion.

https://youtu.be/ilVWOg_ju8A?si=8R6ejueVcDEbse1j

And another hour, if interested in the P7 and NJSP…

https://youtu.be/6Z046lVsytk?si=jsx3TjZe8bDqfn9O

[HeavyDuty]

A now departed writer friend had a chance to handle and shoot one of the prototype P7M7s and had amazing things to say about it. That’s something these guys should consider!

[MattyD380]

These are neat, but too pricy for me.

I realize there's advantages to getting a brand-new example, but I feel like I could scrounge up the genuine article for less? Probably a basic PSP with some patina--but that would work for me. Either way, glad to hear that Screwball 's runs well. I hope they're awesome guns and they sell the shiz out of them.

Also...

It'd be cool if someone made P9Ss. Never shot a P7, but my surplus P9S is among the most intuitively accurate pistols I've experienced.

[Archer1440]

These are neat, but too pricy for me.

I realize there's advantages to getting a brand-new example, but I feel like I could scrounge up the genuine article for less? Probably a basic PSP with some patina--but that would work for me. Either way, glad to hear that Screwball 's runs well. I hope they're awesome guns and they sell the shiz out of them.

Also...

It'd be cool if someone made P9Ss. Never shot a P7, but my surplus P9S is among the most intuitively accurate pistols I've experienced.

Rest assured, P7’s rank well for accuracy as well.

[Bucky]

It'd be cool if someone made P9Ss. Never shot a P7, but my surplus P9S is among the most intuitively accurate pistols I've experienced.

I’d be more likely to jump on that bandwagon. :)

[JonInWA]

My biggest disappointment was how hard it was to effectively holster OWB - the weight distribution and short slide made for a pistol that would beat you as you walked. Kydex would have been an improvement, but everything I had was leather OWB.

I have to agree. Back in the day, I had one of the P7 PSPs that HK did a quiet last batch of in the late 1990s. I had no problem with the butt heel magazine release, and liked the slimmer, less bulky trigger guard, figuring that the heat shield of the P7M8 actually provided little real shielding, and the PSP was slightly more optimized for carry.

Accuracy was superb, as was the triggerpull. However, it quickly heated up, and the manual of arms was unique. I had Kramer make me one of their horsehide IWB holsters, a 1 1/2 as I recall, which was beautifully executed, but it still felt strange and a bit off-putting in carry due to the P7's balance. The PSPs also required a PSP specific magazine; fortunately I obtained a sufficient stock when I originally got the gun, as they quickly became both expensive and scarce.

Eventually, I sold the P7 PSP to a friend, who cherishes it and uses it to this day. Out of the German Police Test pistols of the day (P7, Walther P5, and SIG-Sauer P225, as well as a Beretta 92 Compact Type M) while I had all concurrently, I ended up concentrating on the P225. In retrospect, the Walther P5 was the best of the bunch, but the Glock G19 pretty much obsoleted all of them...

Best, Jon

[Tangodave]

I did not have any issues in regard to reliability yesterday… fired every trigger pull.

Big thing, the P7 platform can only run ammo between 115 and 124 grain, standard pressure. The longer 147s will make the system beat the crap out of itself.

From how I was made to understand it, the longer time from firing to when gas hits the port allows the slide to begin to cycle (it is a gas delayed blowback), then the gas pressure slams it closed.

I usually shoot 147s across the board. It’s my duty load (Speer G2 and have some extra Winchester Ranger that may be in my MP5 magazines), in my 642-1 (Hornady XTP) and what I practice most of the time with (Federal Syntech). For the P7, I stocked up on 124 grain Syntech, but also have 124 grain Federal HST for carry.


The link below suggests 147gr can work if the magazine, particularly the lips and spring and also the Piston are all three in top form. It's an old link though and maybe something else about the ammunition is an issue. As to the pressure, I know a lot of people are running +P with no problems with 124gr. That wouldn't be pushing the limit at all.
https://www.hkpro.com/threads/p7-147-grain-ammo.119413/

[raydoctor]

I did not have any issues in regard to reliability yesterday… fired every trigger pull.

Big thing, the P7 platform can only run ammo between 115 and 124 grain, standard pressure. The longer 147s will make the system beat the crap out of itself.

From how I was made to understand it, the longer time from firing to when gas hits the port allows the slide to begin to cycle (it is a gas delayed blowback), then the gas pressure slams it closed.

I usually shoot 147s across the board. It’s my duty load (Speer G2 and have some extra Winchester Ranger that may be in my MP5 magazines), in my 642-1 (Hornady XTP) and what I practice most of the time with (Federal Syntech). For the P7, I stocked up on 124 grain Syntech, but also have 124 grain Federal HST for carry.

That’s great news! I spent the better part of 15 years carrying/shooting an M13 and never had any trouble with 115 & 124gr ammo. Never even bothered with 147gr. I’m super interested to see how they’re mounting a dot to the P7 slides. It also looks like they may be offering milled slides at some point on their site. If I could run a dot reliably on a P7, my squeezers will be coming out of retirement!

[MattyD380]

Rest assured, P7’s rank well for accuracy as well.

Oh, I’m sure. Fixed barrel. Oberndorfian precision. It’s definitely got the bases covered.

[Screwball]

The link below suggests 147gr can work if the magazine, particularly the lips and spring and also the Piston are all three in top form. It's an old link though and maybe something else about the ammunition is an issue. As to the pressure, I know a lot of people are running +P with no problems with 124gr. That wouldn't be pushing the limit at all.
https://www.hkpro.com/threads/p7-147-grain-ammo.119413/

G3Kurz was an employee with H&K… who specifically stated that 147 grain causes overfunction. I mean, yea… he did mention issues with older magazines, but a magazine isn’t going to change the slide moving rearward prior to the gas cylinder being pressurized. If you read his various posts on the subject on HKPro, he is clear that his recommendations are based off H&K engineers related to P7 development and were the same throughout all of his posts that I’ve seen; don’t shoot 147 grain.

The ammo recommendations were also echoed by James at Teufelshund Tactical (he’s in the 4ish hours of P7 YouTube info I posted previously). Not only does he do H&K specific training (I did an MP5 class with him this past March, and fully recommend), he is an H&K armorer. He has a lot more familiarity with the P7 platform than probably all of us posting in this thread combined. If he says use 115 to 124 grain, brass cased ammo… I’d say take that to the bank.

If it’s on a public form, where people may take a comment as fact without a second guess… I’d stick with the previous recommendations. Knowing people running 124 grain +P is fine, until someone shoots it in a $2,400 P7Pro or a $4,000+ H&K… and damages their firearm. I know of people who put full power .38 Super loads in .38 ACP pistols… works until it doesn’t. Also remember, 9mm +P really was an early 1990s outgrowth. The P7 was originally designed in mid/late 1970s. The P7M8 came out in the mid 1980s.

I have a good source of 147 grain ammo… but I’ll continue to buy 124 grain for the gun. If you want to shoot 147 grain or +P… info/recommendations has been posted, so it’s on the shooter.

[Tangodave]

G3Kurz was an employee with H&K… who specifically stated that 147 grain causes overfunction. I mean, yea… he did mention issues with older magazines, but a magazine isn’t going to change the slide moving rearward prior to the gas cylinder being pressurized. If you read his various posts on the subject on HKPro, he is clear that his recommendations are based off H&K engineers related to P7 development and were the same throughout all of his posts that I’ve seen; don’t shoot 147 grain.

The ammo recommendations were also echoed by James at Teufelshund Tactical (he’s in the 4ish hours of P7 YouTube info I posted previously). Not only does he do H&K specific training (I did an MP5 class with him this past March, and fully recommend), he is an H&K armorer. He has a lot more familiarity with the P7 platform than probably all of us posting in this thread combined. If he says use 115 to 124 grain, brass cased ammo… I’d say take that to the bank.

If it’s on a public form, where people may take a comment as fact without a second guess… I’d stick with the previous recommendations. Knowing people running 124 grain +P is fine, until someone shoots it in a $2,400 P7Pro or a $4,000+ H&K… and damages their firearm. I know of people who put full power .38 Super loads in .38 ACP pistols… works until it doesn’t. Also remember, 9mm +P really was an early 1990s outgrowth. The P7 was originally designed in mid/late 1970s. The P7M8 came out in the mid 1980s.

I have a good source of 147 grain ammo… but I’ll continue to buy 124 grain for the gun. If you want to shoot 147 grain or +P… info/recommendations has been posted, so it’s on the shooter.

I will follow your advice and avoid the 147gr. On the +P however, Brett/P7Pro who made our pistols emailed me that he shoots 127gr +P and the pistol will shoot that "All day long." On a separate note, my recollection is that while the standard for +P did not exist at the time the original P7 was designed, a NATO standard quite close to that was on their minds at least, when it was developed.

[Greg Bell]

Amazing! One of my favorite guns of all time. The gun is ridiculously easy to shoot well and is likely the safest gun to carry of all time. The only real downsides for me are the weight a cost. I might be tempted to buy one of his aluminum frames and toss it on my old M13.

[Tangodave]

These are neat, but too pricy for me.

I realize there's advantages to getting a brand-new example, but I feel like I could scrounge up the genuine article for less? Probably a basic PSP with some patina--but that would work for me. Either way, glad to hear that Screwball 's runs well. I hope they're awesome guns and they sell the shiz out of them.

Also...

It'd be cool if someone made P9Ss. Never shot a P7, but my surplus P9S is among the most intuitively accurate pistols I've experienced.

Somebody wrote somewhere, probably years ago, that P7Pro has hopes to make a P7 with roller delayed recoil instead of the piston. But, that is a big project that is years in the future. They will be producing M13, M10 and K3 pistols before a new recoil system. I seem to recall that the roller delay HK did for smaller pistols did not manage recoil as successfully as the rifles did. Is that wrong? I am curious about the P9S. Maybe it should be on my short list.

[hk45]

$2500 for the most inexpensive version? Seems rather high for a repro.

[Joe in PNG]

$2500 for the most inexpensive version? Seems rather high for a repro.

Actually, repos of old, out of production legacy firearms tend to have a pretty high cost. Especially if you can't cheat by using polymer, MIM, or pot metal bits.

And as is true with production, the more you make, the cheaper it is to make them.

Consider the current run of new AK's- when the run of Commie milsurp dried up, AK prices jumped up a lot, to the point where they cost more than AR's.

[Greg Bell]

Yeah, I can't imagine how much hassle this was to roll out. So many machined, stamped and forged parts. The P7 is sort of approachable with modern tech because the frame and some other parts were CNC machined from the beginning. I can't imagine how costly reproducing gun's like the P9s with huge stampings, plastic molds, etc. At least with the p7 there isn't any polymer stuff to worry about other than the trigger, grip and heat shield. I suspect you could 3d Print the grips and the heat shield. I would be tempted to do the trigger in all steel and see if I could coat it. Crazy project.

[Tangodave]

Yeah, I can't imagine how much hassle this was to roll out. So many machined, stamped and forged parts. The P7 is sort of approachable with modern tech because the frame and some other parts were CNC machined from the beginning. I can't imagine how costly reproducing gun's like the P9s with huge stampings, plastic molds, etc. At least with the p7 there isn't any polymer stuff to worry about other than the trigger, grip and heat shield. I suspect you could 3d Print the grips and the heat shield. I would be tempted to do the trigger in all steel and see if I could coat it. Crazy project.
P7Pro is not coating the trigger with plastic. Keep in mind that not all original P7 pistols had a plastic coated trigger anyway, and it wasn't completely clear why they did that. Maybe it was to keep the trigger from getting hot after several magazines were shot. Maybe it was to keep fingers from freezing on it in Winter. Anyway, you do still get the polymer shield over the top of the trigger guard on the M8. When you get a threaded barrel, you actually get a choice of the threading you want and are not stuck with the threading on the rare SD model. While they try to observe the important standards set by HK in building these to a point where all the new parts fit on the new, old stock, "A" grade (I understand) steel HK frames used in the current bulk batch, I am looking forward to getting a rail and a Ti frame, options obviously not available in the day when I get more P7 pistols.

[Bergeron]

Very cool that these are actually for sale. I have no budgetary authority for 9mm pistol acquisitions, but if a rimfire P7K3 hits the market, I will probably want to part with money. The last HK P7k3 I saw for sale was asking in the $7k range, so here's a place where the repo is actually a deal.

[Ed L]

I don't see how any company short of HK sized will be able to produce something this sophisticated of HK quality.

[Tangodave]

Very cool that these are actually for sale. I have no budgetary authority for 9mm pistol acquisitions, but if a rimfire P7K3 hits the market, I will probably want to part with money. The last HK P7k3 I saw for sale was asking in the $7k range, so here's a place where the repo is actually a deal.
I have a passing interest in the K3 as something I might want to collect someday, or maybe just to get a deal and flip. So, I have watched a number of auctions and can say I have bid on a complete set that went below the figure you mention at quite a major venue auction. I would say not to watch only gunbroker for those. A complete set, then is the .38 ACP upper, the .30 ACP/.22 upper, the receiver that works with both, all three barrels and two magazines for each caliber, a K3 box and cleaning brush and disassembly tool. For a .380 upper, lower and barrel, not a whole set, this is going to auction for a bit more than half. I am not sure about the price of the .22 which is probably the most popular version, but was less interesting to me. I guess people mostly like them as a training or plinking pistol that is less expensive than 9mm. They are about the same dimensions and weight as the 9mm pistol.
Unfortunately, many of the original K3 don't work, because the clever oil buffer they use instead of the more robust gas piston in the 9mm, is often kaput. HK had trouble with those. These buffers are for sale on Gunbroker, with the P7pro brand on them and a lifetime warranty and they are the only source I know of. When P7pro makes the K3 clone, I understand it will be .38 ACP and .22 only. They will not make the .30 ACP which is actually quite rare in the U.S., because, well, who wants it other than a collector who managed to get every other part in a full set?

[Tangodave]

I don't see how any company short of HK sized will be able to produce something this sophisticated of HK quality.

Objectively, the materials, methods and machinery available to work with metals in 2024 are far better than what were available in the 1980's and up through the 1990's. A PC with CAD is better than a slide rule. A milling machine that can operate on complex instructions is better than the old machines that ran off of punch cards or a simple tape drive. Today's tooling is harder and more durable. The original P7 design was nothing short of brilliant. Later on, however HK was always making the new models using as much as possible of the old engineering so as to not have to task a whole team of engineers with slide rules and calculators and a minicomputer without modern software, to do what just one engineer, expert in metallurgy, might do today, perhaps with a few skilled contractors involved. I was asking P7Pro if they could cryogenically harden Titanium framed pistols they make once or twice a year. They do diffusion harden them already to avoid the galling problems common to some pistol manufacturers' titanium frames. Cryogenic hardening is another process you can do with a variety of metals that improves them by removing stresses from heat treatments and creating uniform distances between molecules, usually resulting in a stronger, tougher product. I was told they already send barrels they make, for cryogenic hardening and they would ask about the titanium. HK obviously didn't do cryogenic hardening, not back then anyway. The magic and the legend of the HK brand cannot be duplicated, but P7Pro makes a cool clone of the P7 with some modern touches.

[Greg Bell]

P7Pro is not coating the trigger with plastic. Keep in mind that not all original P7 pistols had a plastic coated trigger anyway, and it wasn't completely clear why they did that. Maybe it was to keep the trigger from getting hot after several magazines were shot. Maybe it was to keep fingers from freezing on it in Winter. Anyway, you do still get the polymer shield over the top of the trigger guard on the M8. When you get a threaded barrel, you actually get a choice of the threading you want and are not stuck with the threading on the rare SD model. While they try to observe the important standards set by HK in building these to a point where all the new parts fit on the new, old stock, "A" grade (I understand) steel HK frames used in the current bulk batch, I am looking forward to getting a rail and a Ti frame, options obviously not available in the day when I get more P7 pistols.

If I had to guess it was to deal with heat. I had a ~1997 late production/short run P7 with flush euro heel release and it actually had a plastic sleeve trigger that broke during my FIRST outing with a brand new gun (showing my age). HK fixed it, but it annoyed me. I shot many tens of thousands of rounds through p7s in the 90s-00s and the only other problem I had was a cracked firing pin bushing. It never actually broke, and I had it hard chromed so that may have had something to do with it.

[zeleny]

I don't see how any company short of HK sized will be able to produce something this sophisticated of HK quality.Many boutique sized companies like SVI, PHX Phoenix, and FK Brno make quality guns no less sophisticated in any sense of these terms.

[HeavyDuty]

https://www.capitolarmory.com/p7pro-titanium-p7-limited-release.html

[Tangodave]

https://www.capitolarmory.com/p7pro-titanium-p7-limited-release.html
8
Those are quite nice, I think, but they were made in a previous year. There were only fifteen of these titanium models made. P7Pro had a tough time, as these are specifically the P7 model, not the M8 and the European, heel magazine release was hard to do on the titanium frame at least. They might not make another P7 titanium. Other P7 model, clones are planned for this year, with the American style mag release. P7Pro is now making all their own barrels, so you might want to be clear whether you are getting B&T or P7Pro when you buy something not current production. I suspect the threading on the B&T threaded barrel is going to be a more traditional H&K. You can order 28-1/2 from P7Pro or any threading you want. Toward the end of this year, the titanium batches are expected to be M8 and M13. I think both are only a couple hundred more than Capitol Armory wants and the threaded barrel option is less additional. The Capital Armory P7Pro batch was all finished as anodized titanium, a super durable finish which would be gray or light blue. This year's titanium details are undecided. There is a poll going at the P7Pro forum on HKPro and the leading options are rail, no beavertail, (with no beavertail it almost has a beavertail in the original design,) and DLC finish instead of the anodized. The voting seems to be going my way on options I would pick. This year's slides will be Novak unless you pay more for an optic slide. I really want a P7 rail version, not for a light, but for that TOR-Mantis (X) laser and training device that can go on there. When buying a P7Pro I suggest that you resolve any extra options (for which there may be an extra cost,) in advance. For example, you might want something different from the usual sight options on a Novak slide. Or you might want the optic slide. I might want mine sent in for cryogenic "Hardening." They are all diffusion hardened grade 5 (from my memory,) titanium. A photo exists that I recall showed the receivers of the Capital Armory batch coming out of the CNC milling machine, so I think these titanium frames are milled and not cast. That is a significant issue, because some other companies Ti frames are allegedly cast which means lower density, and not quite as strong. P7Pro is adamant that their diffusion hardened frames will last a lifetime without special efforts to avoid Ti-Frame to steel slide, direct contact other than the DLC or Anodized finish, I mean.

[HeavyDuty]

I already did my time in the P7 barrel… I just posted it for interest.

[Screwball]

Yea, ordering one direct is best. Brett is very good to deal with. Will answer any questions, and if you have a request… he will do what he can.

I wanted night sights with mine. As the slides were being finished, I ordered a set for Meprolight and had it shipped to him for the install. Meprolight confirmed it wasn’t fraud… ME billing with TX shipping.

But nice part was installed by him, test target shot with them… zero issues having someone else install them.

For suppressing, I’ve only heard negative from putting a can on a P7. Not that it doesn’t work, but just is loud due to the gas system.

[UNM1136]

I don't see how any company short of HK sized will be able to produce something this sophisticated of HK quality.

Right there with you, but, damn, it almost 40 years later.

I absolute,y loved the three I shot (P7M7, P7M13, P7A4 in.22 and .380).

I will lose money on this.

That said, and I need some alone time right now.. and Jergins-cherry almond...and tissues...lots and lots of tissues.

pat

[Tangodave]

This is a nice video which starts out with an unboxing of one of the Capital Armory Ti P7 pistols with a rail. Another note about the rail. P7 frames heat up quite a bit as most of us know, after several magazines are expended at the range. You can see visually on the HK frame that the steel is pretty thin on part of the area near the trigger guard. P7Pro says the rail versions heat up less or more slowly anyway, because of the additional material, acting as a heat sink and perhaps as a radiator too. Titanium conducts heat less efficiently than steel. A P7Pro M8 is also shown in the video, but this is an earlier batch with more European parts. As various parts run low, then P7Pro either makes them themselves or sources more non-HK parts. In this video, P7Pro made the M8 case hardened steel frame, but more of the other parts were original HK. In the current "Bulk Batch," the M8s have an original HK frame, but many more of the other parts were made by P7Pro or sources other than HK than in some of the earlier batches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWmnYnJGN7o

[Tangodave]

Yea, ordering one direct is best. Brett is very good to deal with. Will answer any questions, and if you have a request… he will do what he can.

I wanted night sights with mine. As the slides were being finished, I ordered a set for Meprolight and had it shipped to him for the install. Meprolight confirmed it wasn’t fraud… ME billing with TX shipping.

But nice part was installed by him, test target shot with them… zero issues having someone else install them.

For suppressing, I’ve only heard negative from putting a can on a P7. Not that it doesn’t work, but just is loud due to the gas system.

In my case I started out trying to use the configurator and ordered pistols with rails that were not currently available and received a prompt refund of several thousand dollars. Eventually I decided to get in on the bulk buy, so I would have some kind of P7. My sights were also a special option, but they purchased them and added the extra cost to my invoice. The bulk buy Pistols arrived about two and a half weeks after I ordered them, not very long after the first pistols in that batch were made. Right now, I think they are starting the aluminum batch, which may be available with a rail or how you want it.
Threaded barrels are interesting to me, not for a suppressor, but I am interested in trying compensators and seeing which ones reduce recoil and muzzle lift, the most. I also have weak muscles and for a compact pistol, the P7 has a stiff spring to rack the slide, way harder than a well used Glock I tried. Usually I rack it on my holster, but I can reach around the muzzle and if the barrel sticks out of it a half inch, without risking shooting my hand, then I get more grip than just from the slide serrations and it is a lot easier to rack it with my hands.

[Screwball]

So… figured with the P7M8 sitting on my dresser, ready for carry, it would be fine for me to put out the review.

The P7 definitely is more of a hand fit gun than what we are use to today. Not going to take parts from this one, parts from that one… put it together, and it will work. Add in that Brett from P7Pro had to reengineer all this. I want to get that out of the way before I begin.

When I took the MP5 class with James from Teufelshund Tactical, I asked him about P7Pro. James didn’t have a bad thing to say about him, but he likened it to buying something other than an SP5; you are getting a copy. Now, I know James is a very big H&K fan, so I took it as such. I was on the final day of his class… with an SBRed PTR that ran 100%, minus an aftermarket trigger that I swapped out for the OEM setup after I got a few odd malfunctions. Started looking for used P7M8s… but it kept becoming price prohibitive. I usually don’t mind putting money into a good investment, but $4,000+ for something I want to carry… I’m sort of torn. Not to mention that I may not have a good pistol, that might need to go to James to be rebuilt.

So, I began talking to Brett about his current German framed builds on HKPro. Very knowledgeable, and willing to answer any questions. I bit the bullet and put my name down on one. Paid, and coordinated with Meprolight to send him a set of night sights (I’m big with night sights). Got it from my FFL coworker, and first realized how clunky they are… but also that the squeeze cocker wouldn’t recock the striker after a dry fire (not right). I say clunky because it isn’t something that is easy to take apart. The recoil spring just always seems to hang up the slide from going back over the barrel. Pulling the striker out takes a little finesse/skill.

Let Brett know about the recocking, shipping label to me in a little bit. Sent it back, said that the striker was slightly out of spec… and came back. Got it out to the range and shot about 50 rounds thru it… rear sight flew off (spent an hour looking, along with a coworker who continued when I left the range) and after I got home, noticed there still wasn’t a second strike. Shipping label… and he ordered a replacement set of night sights. Got the gun back in about a week. He mentioned that he tweaked the slide insert specs to make it better in reengaging the striker… but my original slide came back. He said that he didn’t see anything out of the norm… just lack of lubrication.

This was around the time earlier in the thread where I said that I wanted more time for a fair review. For me, I understand him reengineering something along the lines of a Swiss watch. Still was annoyed with it, but can’t say he didn’t handle it well. And I also wanted to see if me lubricating it would resolve the restrike problem.

Went out to the range yesterday. Checked two ARs with our duty ammo, since I started tossing a spare magazine or two of it in the truck. Then I confirmed zero with the Flux Raider and two AR9 setups. Was a rainy, miserable day… which I like because I tend to get the most done on those days. Brought the target in, and ran the P7M8.

I’m going to have to say the prior Meprolight rear sight was out of spec, as this one stayed in place. Shot the gun until my finger burned… pulled the slide and put a Clenzoil wipe around the piston. Cooled somewhat quickly… so loaded up magazines and did it again. Pistol is a laser beam… I tossed a steel plate at 50 yards while waiting for it to cool… fire two at 7 yards, ring steel, two at 7, ring steel. Like zero effort to make 50 yard hits. I ran mostly 124 grain Syntech, but also some HST to confirm function. All ran without issue.

Cleaned it a few hours ago, and definitely 100% after a good oil/grease. For those who never pulled the grips on a P7… it ain’t no Glock! I oiled each part that moves with the squeeze cocker and trigger. Then, greased the slide and the parts that interact with the slide. Recocked after each dry fire.

So, here are some pictures…

https://i.imgur.com/8up5ZLY.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/qcAdX5T.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/kjJ9uTa.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/fCC7OpI.jpeg

Now, would I recommend a P7?

Depends what you want. If you just want a gun to go bang, reliability more important than anything else… buy a Glock!

Now, if you want a unique firearm, which has a metric crap ton of history… likely is overkill for 9mm… and really requires some dedication to run… 110%, get one!

I have always been someone who likes to shoot/carry different things. I could just shoot Glocks like a lot of other people I work with… but I run a 9mm J-frame because I like it. I have quite a few ties with NJSP, and a few Troopers I have known over the years always talked highly of the P7M8 and P228. I got the P228 years ago, since it was easier to do. But finally having a P7M8… especially a “new” one that has better finish.

I will say, I’d put P7 magazines up there with S&W 10mm magazines… EXPENSIVE! Think I have 9 now, all with Wolff springs. Shooting a gas delayed blowback pistol also makes the magazine area pretty dirty. Just a heads up.

[G19Fan]

Nice review.

I always want a p7 till I shoot one for a while and realize I don't wanna deal with the quirks

[Joe in PNG]

Nice review.

I always want a p7 till I shoot one for a while and realize I don't wanna deal with the quirks

I'd like one as a cool bit of out-of-the-box engineering, but probably not as a shooter. For that amount of cabbage, I could probably scrounge up a nice brace of Sig P239's.

[raydoctor]

So… figured with the P7M8 sitting on my dresser, ready for carry, it would be fine for me to put out the review.

The P7 definitely is more of a hand fit gun than what we are use to today. Not going to take parts from this one, parts from that one… put it together, and it will work. Add in that Brett from P7Pro had to reengineer all this. I want to get that out of the way before I begin.

When I took the MP5 class with James from Teufelshund Tactical, I asked him about P7Pro. James didn’t have a bad thing to say about him, but he likened it to buying something other than an SP5; you are getting a copy. Now, I know James is a very big H&K fan, so I took it as such. I was on the final day of his class… with an SBRed PTR that ran 100%, minus an aftermarket trigger that I swapped out for the OEM setup after I got a few odd malfunctions. Started looking for used P7M8s… but it kept becoming price prohibitive. I usually don’t mind putting money into a good investment, but $4,000+ for something I want to carry… I’m sort of torn. Not to mention that I may not have a good pistol, that might need to go to James to be rebuilt.

So, I began talking to Brett about his current German framed builds on HKPro. Very knowledgeable, and willing to answer any questions. I bit the bullet and put my name down on one. Paid, and coordinated with Meprolight to send him a set of night sights (I’m big with night sights). Got it from my FFL coworker, and first realized how clunky they are… but also that the squeeze cocker wouldn’t recock the striker after a dry fire (not right). I say clunky because it isn’t something that is easy to take apart. The recoil spring just always seems to hang up the slide from going back over the barrel. Pulling the striker out takes a little finesse/skill.

Let Brett know about the recocking, shipping label to me in a little bit. Sent it back, said that the striker was slightly out of spec… and came back. Got it out to the range and shot about 50 rounds thru it… rear sight flew off (spent an hour looking, along with a coworker who continued when I left the range) and after I got home, noticed there still wasn’t a second strike. Shipping label… and he ordered a replacement set of night sights. Got the gun back in about a week. He mentioned that he tweaked the slide insert specs to make it better in reengaging the striker… but my original slide came back. He said that he didn’t see anything out of the norm… just lack of lubrication.

This was around the time earlier in the thread where I said that I wanted more time for a fair review. For me, I understand him reengineering something along the lines of a Swiss watch. Still was annoyed with it, but can’t say he didn’t handle it well. And I also wanted to see if me lubricating it would resolve the restrike problem.

Went out to the range yesterday. Checked two ARs with our duty ammo, since I started tossing a spare magazine or two of it in the truck. Then I confirmed zero with the Flux Raider and two AR9 setups. Was a rainy, miserable day… which I like because I tend to get the most done on those days. Brought the target in, and ran the P7M8.

I’m going to have to say the prior Meprolight rear sight was out of spec, as this one stayed in place. Shot the gun until my finger burned… pulled the slide and put a Clenzoil wipe around the piston. Cooled somewhat quickly… so loaded up magazines and did it again. Pistol is a laser beam… I tossed a steel plate at 50 yards while waiting for it to cool… fire two at 7 yards, ring steel, two at 7, ring steel. Like zero effort to make 50 yard hits. I ran mostly 124 grain Syntech, but also some HST to confirm function. All ran without issue.

Cleaned it a few hours ago, and definitely 100% after a good oil/grease. For those who never pulled the grips on a P7… it ain’t no Glock! I oiled each part that moves with the squeeze cocker and trigger. Then, greased the slide and the parts that interact with the slide. Recocked after each dry fire.

So, here are some pictures…

https://i.imgur.com/8up5ZLY.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/qcAdX5T.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/kjJ9uTa.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/fCC7OpI.jpeg

Now, would I recommend a P7?

Depends what you want. If you just want a gun to go bang, reliability more important than anything else… buy a Glock!

Now, if you want a unique firearm, which has a metric crap ton of history… likely is overkill for 9mm… and really requires some dedication to run… 110%, get one!

I have always been someone who likes to shoot/carry different things. I could just shoot Glocks like a lot of other people I work with… but I run a 9mm J-frame because I like it. I have quite a few ties with NJSP, and a few Troopers I have known over the years always talked highly of the P7M8 and P228. I got the P228 years ago, since it was easier to do. But finally having a P7M8… especially a “new” one that has better finish.

I will say, I’d put P7 magazines up there with S&W 10mm magazines… EXPENSIVE! Think I have 9 now, all with Wolff springs. Shooting a gas delayed blowback pistol also makes the magazine area pretty dirty. Just a heads up.


Thanks for the detailed review! I've been corresponding with Brett recently about ordering some slides that I can run an RDS on. He was super quick to respond and answered all of my questions.

On a side note, regarding some of the issues you had. I have never seen a set of Meprolights that fit on the P7M8/M13 worth a damn. I liked the sight picture the they provided but they always seemed fit loose IME, especially the rear dovetail....granted that was over 15 years ago.....but it seems like some things never change. I think this was part of these reason a lot of P7 shooters sent their OEM sights out to places like ToolTech for inserts. Also, I have never known a P7 to be in need of an abundant amount of lubrication. I have most definitely seen them choke when in need of cylinder/gas port de-fouling.

[mrozowjj]

$1,000 for slide serrations. $1,000 for an optics cut with no iron sights. They offer a titanium frame for $400 less than that.

Yeah that's a huge turn off. There's overpriced and then there's this absurdity of $1000 for an optic cut.

I really hope those numbers are an error in their webcode somewhere.

[Screwball]

Yeah that's a huge turn off. There's overpriced and then there's this absurdity of $1000 for an optic cut.

I really hope those numbers are an error in their webcode somewhere.

Best bet is to join HKPro and follow his section.

I’ll be honest, I never followed anything shy of the standard P7M8s. I may consider the sub-caliber guns when they progress further… but the optic cuts, titanium frames or rails don’t do it for me. I’ve just started to accept the newer slide design… but it has been tossed around in my mind to get an H&K slide and have it installed.

Brett has said multiple times he needs to redo the website. Think he is putting the time towards building guns over web design.

[UNM1136]

So many regrets for not buying the P7K3 in 2004.

Or 1994...

First shot one in 1986 at a DOE open house....

pat