New Heinie's Shooting Low On P30

[Jay]

Ok,
So got the P30 and without shooting it with stock sights immediately had the Heinie's installed (3950).
Went to the range last weekend and unfortunately it was a mad house so I got stuck shooting 25yds with the rimfire guys. Went mainly to verify function of the weapon from a feeding and ejection standpoint and assumed my piss poor performance was the distance and adjusting to the new gun.

Made it back to the range today started out at a 7yd position and was consistently shooting low, put about a hundred rounds down range and was pretty sure something was off as driving the dot on the rear sight was putting them in the center.
Talked to the range master who tried to shoot it, also about 6" low, he went and got the CHL instructor who was on site he shot it with the same results and both agreed driving the rear dot was putting lead on target.

The front Heinie is substantially taller than the factory front sight but not as tall as a Tactical "first thought was they shipped the wrong front".

Is this common? Is there something wrong with the pistol? should I have the factory sights re-installed and see if the problem goes away?

I feel like an idiot for not function checking the weapon in its factory condition and it is definitely a noob error that I will not repeat.

I will be putting in a call to Heinie on Monday morning, was basically just wondering if anyone had heard of or seen this before.

Thanks,
Jay

[JV_]

With my P30 and Heinie sights, I drive-the-dot inside of 10Y and use a center hold past 10Y.

If you're not familiar with drive-the-dot it's when you put the dot over the target - where you want the POI.

Having said that, 6" low at 7Y sounds like anticipation. The P30 has a LONG trigger pull, I find it easy to pull them down.

[KentF]

I just got my slide back from Heinie's this week I'll be going out tomorrow. I'll let you know what happens.

[Jay]

If you're not familiar with drive-the-dot it's when you put the dot over the target - where you want the POI.

Having said that, 6" low at 7Y sounds like anticipation. The P30 has a LONG trigger pull, I find it easy to pull them down.

The problem is "Driving the rear dot" puts them in the center.

And everyone who shot was able to adjust and "bracket" rounds into the center after 10 or so shots.

It was also shot from the bench rest by both myself and the chl instructor with the same results.

I really didn't believe anything was wrong and assumed it was just me sucking "just the excuse to hit the range more often".
But 3 different shooters same result:(

[joshs]

The problem is "Driving the rear dot" puts them in the center.

Unless your front sight is really screwed up, it shouldn't be possible for the dot to be dead on a 7 yards, and for the top edge to be six inches low.

My P30 with Heinies shoots most 115 gr FMJ high at 25 yards, and is dead on with Speer GD 124 gr +p at the same distance.

[KentF]

...

My P30 with Heinies shoots most 115 gr FMJ high at 25 yards, and is dead on with Speer GD 124 gr +p at the same distance.

Are you driving the dot, or 6 o'clock hold?

[joshs]

Are you driving the dot, or 6 o'clock hold?

Neither, I'm using the top edge of the front sight at 25 yards. When using tall sights, like the Heinies, there is more offset than the stock sights at closer ranges. However, this is a very small amount of offset that most people will not even notice. And, as JV mentioned, it can be compensated for by switching to "driving the dot" at closer ranges.

[GJM]

Individual HK pistols are just that -- and there is a reason HK makes different front sight heights. I like Heinie sights on the P30/HK 45, and have them on a number of pistols. Here is my experience -- they are perfectly regulated on my P30 9, shoot high on my P30 .40, shoot low on a German HK 45, and are perfectly regulated on a recent HK 45. All of these have LEM triggers, excepting one .40, so it isn't the trigger.

I ended up pulling the Heinie sights on an HK 45, putting the original sights back on, and sending the slide to Tool Tech for a tritium dot and blacking out the rear dots.

Now, I try Heinie sights, and if they don't regulate, I don't sweat it -- just go to plan B or C (Tool Tech or Trijicons).

[Jay]

My P30 with Heinies shoots most 115 gr FMJ high at 25 yards, and is dead on with Speer GD 124 gr +p at the same distance.

Yes Heinies traditionally shoot high at pretty much everything shorter than 25 yds.
I am shooting
115 G Federal
124 G Lawman
124 +P Gold Dot

The bulk of which was the lawman.

I would really love the answer to the problem to be more more trigger time, however 6" low at 7 yds is substantial.
And to be honest pretty fucked up, when i asked the range master and then the chl instructor to shoot the weapon I was hoping i was going to be told that I was doing something wrong but the got the exact same results.

I was using the sight picture from Heinie's website which is friggin impossible to find on the site.
I would upload a photo but it appears i need a photobucket account or something because it keeps asking me for the URL of the Image.

I don't believe there is anything wrong with the sights "apparently thats impossible", but I am beginning to think that there may be something very wrong with the pistol at this point, but that also really doesn't make sense.

I don't know its just frustrating, the straight 8 sight picture had a lot to do with me selecting this gun"as well as the endurance test of course", I am trying to un-program my cross dominance and get to where I can rapidly acquire the sight picture with both eyes open, currently I initially get a pretty bad double image and it just made sense that 4 dots would be a little easier to process than 6.

The P30 was actually bought as a spring board/ trainer for what i currently believe i would like to carry in the future which is a 45C and with as much practice as i need for general marksmanship purposes .45 ACP just doesn't make good financial sense.

All I want to do is shoot and train I actually got over my flinches & blinking today which IMO is a huge step forward, it just now appears there could be a lengthy delay in getting this BS figured out.

I am aware of the diagnostic targets and when attempting to diagnose this problem i was white knuckling the damn gun and pre staging the trigger on these shots.

Its not a strength or limp wristing issue I am 6'4" 250#'s and trust me my right wrist has gotten plenty of exercise throughout the years.

[JV_]

I was using the sight picture from Heinie's website which is friggin impossible to find on the site.

http://www.heinie.com/userfiles/image/s8big2.JPG

[Jay]

Individual HK pistols are just that -- and there is a reason HK makes different front sight heights.
Now, I try Heinie sights, and if they don't regulate, I don't sweat it -- just go to plan B or C (Tool Tech or Trijicons).

Thank you!
That is actually the best news I have heard all day.
Looking at the sights and doing some basic guess-timation I think a standard height front sight with Heinie rear will probably put me spot on.
I am actually considering ordering a set of trijicon's for it and just installing the front.
I wish i could just buy the front tbh and would actually love an HD triji front with the heinie rear if the trigonometry worked out on that "and trijicon made them for the HK's" it would probably be a bitchin' sight picture.

I guess maybe I should have my smith install the factory front and see where that gets me.
Fuck if that works maintaining a uniform coat of arms in the future is going to get expensive.

But I decided when I got into this Hobby that it was going to be expensive and I tend to have a prefference for the finer things in life. I am currently playing around with my first AR Build and by the time I'm done with that thing it will propably make most people faint.:cool:

[JV_]

If you like Meps, let me know. I have a set on my backup P30 (NIB) and would prefer Heinies.

[Jay]

If you like Meps, let me know. I have a set on my backup P30 (NIB) and would prefer Heinies.

Really appreciate the offer but I think we are about to start treading into "frankenstein" sight configs Heinie in the rear and god knows what in the front does anyone know who sells just front sight's for P30 "tritium of course"?

If I can find a front that solves the issue I will give the front heinie to whoever wants it.

[joshs]

I don't believe there is anything wrong with the sights "apparently thats impossible", but I am beginning to think that there may be something very wrong with the pistol at this point, but that also really doesn't make sense.

Unless the tritium vial is placed way to low in the front sight, it is impossible for the gun to hit dead on while using the dot at seven yards, but six inches low when using the top edge also at seven yards. There just isn't that much distance between the two points. When driving the dot are you keeping the top edges of the sights aligned, or are you lining the dot up with the top edge of the rear sight? If it is the latter, then I can see how that would cause such a significant change in point of impact.

Before spending more money to get the problem fixed by getting a different front sight, I would try contacting HK.

[Jay]

Unless the tritium vial is placed way to low in the front sight, it is impossible for the gun to hit dead on while using the dot at seven yards, but six inches low when using the top edge also at seven yards. There just isn't that much distance between the two points. When driving the dot are you keeping the top edges of the sights aligned, or are you lining the dot up with the top edge of the rear sight? If it is the latter, then I can see how that would cause such a significant change in point of impact.

Before spending more money to get the problem fixed by getting a different front sight, I would try contacting HK.

I think there is a little confusion here if you look at what my quoted statement is in your first post, what I have been saying is that the weapons Point of Impact at 7 yards is in alignment with the smaller tritium dot in the REAR sight.

If you look at the Photo uploaded by JV and assume you got off a sound shot using that sight picture the bullet will strike the target in the outermost ring on the bottom half of the target "in line with the rear dot".

[KentF]

I took my P30 out today for her first shoot since having the Heinie sights installed. My first shoot was at 25 yards and I was all over the target. It was entirely my fault and as I moved closer things got better. Here is a photo of seven rounds fired from 3 yards using one of the PT-Q targets. The top of my front sight was on the top edge of the box.

31

[JV_]

That's a lot of vertical spread for 3 yards. You definitely need to work on the trigger control.

[KentF]

I know. :(