Physical fitness limitations and shooting

[breakingtime91]

I believe that some people put to much emphasis on their high speed low drag gear and not enough on their own physical well being. Quite a few times I have seen people at a range that just look like if they had to run to cover they would be out of wind in short order. I will admit I am completely biased in my actual experiences in a chaotic environment. My opinion has been formed by the Marine Corps and my two deployments to Afghanistan, usually overweight/out of shape people effect they're abilities in combat. Granted, average civilians will never experience 5 hours of patrolling then taking contact and buddy team rushing towards the Taliban. The point I'm trying to make is that people put so much effort in the tactical "game" and in they're gear that the only sprinting they're doing is during IDPA stages. I think we should all make a conscious effort to focus on personal health and fitness as much as we do on shooting and dry fire. This is a problem with our whole country, not just the shooting community.

[Kyle Reese]

Maintaining a physical training regimen takes dedication, time and isn't easy. Diet and fitness are essential components to the training equation.

It's much easier to buy tactical gear, don it incorrectly (multi cam for extra Internetz), and do mag dumps on static targets on a square range.

I feel your pain and share your sentiments.

[Chemsoldier]

A populace with the discipline to do daily exercise would be capable of fixing many problems in this country.

[JHC]

DocGKR was telling me regarding Bob Vogel's comments on shooting with regards to fitness is he believes that grip strength is EVERYTHING. That he (Vogel) just hikes, hunts and trains with Captains of Crush grip trainers. That's almost counterintuitive to me but . . .

There are so many overweight but brilliant pistol shots that although a life long fitness guy like me might like conditioning to be a factor in shooting; it doesn't seem to be much of one. :confused:

[breakingtime91]

I am not advocating that to shoot good you need a six pack but if you die from cardiac arrest at 45 what's the point? I plan on being around for awhile, that's why I train, incase someone tries to take my life I have the means to defend myself. Isn't taking care of your body on par with defending it? People are usually their own worst enemies and neglect to realize it.

[Chemsoldier]

There are so many overweight but brilliant pistol shots that although a life long fitness guy like me might like conditioning to be a factor in shooting; it doesn't seem to be much of one. :confused:
True...if shooting is the only factor in a life or death situation...if it doesnt involve fleeing, tussling, trying to climb out of a burning vehicle, leaping from roof top to roof top while being chased across Instanbul at night (maybe not the last but you get my point).

Ultimately a moderate amount of exercise can help the shooter have more energy, focus and be better rested than a shooter that doesnt have that. I would also guess that a shooter who exercises will have more years of effectiveness as a combatant on average with more options in a crisis.

[JHC]

I am not advocating that to shoot good you need a six pack but if you die from cardiac arrest at 45 what's the point? I plan on being around for awhile, that's why I train, incase someone tries to take my life I have the means to defend myself. Isn't taking care of your body on par with defending it? People are usually their own worst enemies and neglect to realize it.

+1 and +1 to Chemsoldier. I may have over interpretted the thread title and zeroed in just on shooting; pistol shooting especially. Definitely agree and just shake my head. I'm especially dismayed at the youngsters (anyone under 50 to me ;) ) that just let it all go. "Nothing tastes as good as being in great shape feels."

[breakingtime91]

I completely agree with you and think there is a huge gap in our society right now (ecspecially my generation). One side you have very active and health conscious people and then on the other you have well, to put this delicately, people who can't run a mile under 15 minutes. There really isn't that middle
ground to much anymore, or atleast in my opinion there isn't.

[Shokr21]

Couldn't agree more. When I got home from Afghanistan Aug 2011 I was as fit as I had been since basic.

Then I didn't do shit for 4 months. put on 45#'s, I'm down to only being plus 10#'s from last year, it's a helluva lot easier to maintain than gain fitness.

It's one thing I'll never take for granted or give up easily again.

There are a couple of guys I shoot USPSA with that I purposely build field stages for with plenty of running. They are as round as they are tall and can't run for shit, that hate me for it, but I'm just trying to give the friendly push.

[breakingtime91]

I feel ya brother, I'm always in the best shape during and after deployments. Run a patrol then hit the gym(makeshift gym depending where I was at) repeat daily lol. I have to work hard to keep it up but am
going strong so far.

[JodyH]

Don't smoke, lose some weight and wear your seatbelt.

[Odin Bravo One]

There is a difference between shooting and fighting. A little perspective goes a long way.

Not everyone who shoots matches or competes regularly wants to be a fighter. Not everyone who is a fighter wants to shoot matches.

Everyone has their own list of priorities, and beliefs. I agree that fitness is something that should be pursued, from a pure health perspective, let alone a fighting perspective. But no one is paying me to be the PT Police either.

[tremiles]

How do you define physical fitness?

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk 2

[breakingtime91]

I think the easiest way to explain it is if you are at a responsible weight, do cardio or some kind of high intensity work out 4 times a week. Not smoking and have a balanced diet are good tips as well. There is a standard set by certain trainers but sometimes those aren't very logical goals so I think what I stated is quite manageable. If you watch over two hours of a tv and don't work out you should really dedicate 30 minutes of it to a work out. For example crossfit has a website with new daily work outs that are usually doable at your own home.

[YVK]

Everyone has their own list of priorities.

Excellent point.
I am going to play a devil's advocate a bit. Currently I have enough time in my life to work out, gym or swim, about 5 times a week, live fire once a week, and dry fire some, given a reasonably good week. My wife takes care of a house, food etc.
In 2006-2007 during my last postgraduate year I was on 24 hour call every other day. I lived alone and had to take care of a household by myself, groceries and cooking etc. I barely had time or energy for a run maybe once a week at best, and all resistance training I could do were pushups and a bit of dumbbell work, just enough to keep muscles from atrophy. This was in a northeast Philly, where more Americans were killed in first 10 days of 2007 than in Baghdad.
So, anybody who might've told me to spend my rare free day of a weekend on anything other than shooting would've been told to go pound sand, even though I was far from being in shape.

[breakingtime91]

to tired to respond right now lol

[YVK]

Honestly I don't doubt that Philly can be dangerous but to compare it to a war like Iraq is a little extreme for my taste.

That was an actual statistic quoted from local papers of that time. The Philly PD all but threw in a white flag, with outgoing police chief publicly suggesting forming patrolling neighborhood groups. Year after I left a police officer was shot at a bus stop that was within 1 min from my office, a stop I used when my car was in repairs - daytime, wearing IBA, he didn't make it. This was the area I had to drive through, at moment's notice, night or day, alone and without anybody watching my six.

You make a very valid point, in general, in your original post; I am simply pointing out that reality sometimes interferes with ideal practices.

[Odin Bravo One]

Excellent point.
This was in a northeast Philly, where more Americans were killed in first 10 days of 2007 than in Baghdad.


Perhaps........but I'd rather take my chances in Philly.

[TCinVA]

Does it make sense for somebody to have a huge stash of ammo and guns and training for the Zombie Apocalypse and yet be in sufficiently poor physical shape that if they'd keel over dead if they had to jog a mile?

Of course not.

How do you fix it? Well, you don't. They have to fix it. For someone to better their life they first have to get sufficiently dissatisfied with the status quo to fix it. If someone's guns are their security blanket then there's rarely any words sufficient to penetrate the thickness of the skull and make them come to a conclusion they're actively hiding from.

[LittleLebowski]

I'm somewhat biased towards PT but.....like Sean, I'm not the PT police and life as a nasty civilian has shown me (after 8 years in the Corps; 1st LAR and 3/1) that it's not always that easy to actually find time to PT. Believe it or not; work and family can take up most of your time when you're not asleep and that new baby might crush all plans of going shooting for a while let alone finding time to leave your house and PT for a bit. I make up for what i can right now (new baby and a toddler) with a pull up bar in my office, grip strength trainer, and a kettlebell.

I would strongly recommend not worrying about others PT'ing and just be happy that folks are out there shooting, working on some form of self improvement.

[YVK]

Perhaps........but I'd rather take my chances in Philly.

Of course, nobody is directly comparing a military theater to a US city. I hope everyone understands that a specific and limited comparison I quoted was there to show how bad the things were (probably still are) in a city of brotherly love.

[Shellback]

I'm somewhat biased towards PT but.....like Sean, I'm not the PT police and life as a nasty civilian has shown me (after 8 years in the Corps; 1st LAR and 3/1) that it's not always that easy to actually find time to PT. Believe it or not; work and family can take up most of your time when you're not asleep and that new baby might crush all plans of going shooting for a while let alone finding time to leave your house and PT for a bit. I make up for what i can right now (new baby and a toddler) with a pull up bar in my office, grip strength trainer, and a kettlebell.

I would strongly recommend not worrying about others PT'ing and just be happy that folks are out there shooting, working on some form of self improvement.

Exactly right. LL and I are basically in the same boat in terms of young kids (2yo and 2mths), wife, being the sole breadwinner, etc. and it's a hell of a lot harder finding time with a family than a young guy in the military who doesn't have those responsibilities. I'm not making excuses for anyone, myself included, but your reality may be very different than someone else's.

Some people are happy having love handles and some aren't, live and let live. If they want to make a change in their lives, in terms of being physically fit, typically it's not too complicated to figure out what those changes need to be in order for that to happen.

[ljgrohn]

I think everybody seems to be on the same page. We all know that we should stay more fit than not, but sometimes that is difficult to balance with life. On top of that if I had a month where I had to choose range time or gym time, I would defy my wife and go to the range ;)

This all does however nring up an interesting question of training in my mind. For most people shooting is more of a hobby than a life style. Most of the people I know at the range never carry except to the range or hunting. But for those of us who choose to take our own safety and that of those around us seriously, other training, physical included, is important.

Beyond firearms training, what to you all do, when time and life permits, to prepare for dangerous circumstances that may arise? I.e. gym, self-defense, family emergency planning, etc.

[JHC]

I hate to be a douche but if you break down time spent in all your activity - you can find 30 minutes 3-5 days/week to work in fitness. You don't need to train like Tim Kennedy. LL described a great minimalist Plan B. One LONG set of kettle bell swings a day might suffice many days.

For me, it's been at 0500 through all the years of raising two little ones into big ones and working etc etc but I've never needed a lot of sleep. Evenings - foogetabout it. Then there is the whole nutrition part which is a big part. I'm not the PT police either and I don't try to convert all those around me who ignore it. But chronic badstuff will eventually run you to ground sooner than it needs to.

[Desmond82]

1182...

[JodyH]

I got my boy involved in my exercise.
We do "Monkey push-ups" where he climbs on my back like a monkey and I do the push-ups.
He doesn't get much benefit but I damn sure get a good workout with the added 60#.
:p

[JHC]

I got my boy involved in my exercise.
We do "Monkey push-ups" where he climbs on my back like a monkey and I do the push-ups.
He doesn't get much benefit but I damn sure get a good workout with the added 60#.
:p

Excellent. That example will rub off and endure.

[DocGKR]

"you can find 30 minutes 3-5 days/week to work in fitness.'


No. Not always. Try being at the hospital at 6:30 AM, working for 12-13 hours 5-6 days a week, as well as being on call on weekends. Sometimes there is simply NOT enough time to get everything done that needs to be accomplished each day.

[NickA]

I got my boy involved in my exercise.
We do "Monkey push-ups" where he climbs on my back like a monkey and I do the push-ups.
He doesn't get much benefit but I damn sure get a good workout with the added 60#.
:p

On a similar note of getting kids involved, creating a love of physical activity, and learning some practical SD skills, I'm planning on getting this for my daughter for Christmas :
http://secure.gracieacademy.com/categories/dvds/GSD-GBPDVD.html

I think we'll both get a lot out of it, and it should be a fun Daddy/daughter activity.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[David Armstrong]

Like Doc says. Sure you can always find 30 minutes...but often you have to find it at the expense of some other time that needs to be devoted to something else. The number of minutes in a day are finite. I don't have the lifestyle any more, but there have been times when the choice was literally do I grab a bite to eat, do I get some sleep, do I study for a test, do I get cleaned up and take a bath. Can't do them all, they all need to be done, pick one and take your chances.

Regarding the OP...as has been pointed out, there is a lot of difference between shooting and fighting. More importantly, there is a lot of variation in fighting, and while a basic level of fitness is needed for most types of fighting, how one chooses to fight and the situations one gets in are going to define the issue to a great extent. If I were to go back into a combat zone or need to be able to fight after a 10-mile forced march I'd be SOL these days. For taking care of idjits that want to bother me at the store, or in the parking lot of the local Wallyworld and so on, even the embarrassingly poor physical condition I'm in now, coupled with my skills, is sufficient.

[JHC]

No. Not always. Try being at the hospital at 6:30 AM, working for 12-13 hours 5-6 days a week, as well as being on call on weekends. Sometimes there is simply NOT enough time to get everything done that needs to be accomplished each day.

Doc you just accounted for 78 of the 168 hours in a week. Allow 45.5 for sleep. Still leaves 44.5. ;) Just kidding. If there ain't there ain't.

[Zhurdan]

I'm not in the best shape, I know that and I'm working on it, but I'm not in as bad of shape as people may take me for by my appearance. I can shoot, move, go prone, get up and do it all with a smile on my face and not be huffing and puffing.

Recently, an unfortunate occurrence came my way. I work at a bar part time and went down to check my schedule one evening after a work party (no drinking) and my little brother was there. Plastered off his arse. Puking on the sidewalk and making a fool of himself. So rather than put him in my brand new car and have him puke all over it, I opted to walk him home, about three blocks. Everything was hunkey dory until we got to his place. He wanted to "talk" about some of our previous issues. Being that he wasn't in a really great state of mind, I said no. He got angry and started yelling.

Right then, three of his "buddies" showed up wondering where we wandered off to. I said I was leaving and they could handle him from there. I handed him back his keys and turned to walk away. That's when he said "You know what, you're a piece of s&it!". Stunned at his attitude after getting his drunk arse home, I turned to say 'that's enough' when lo and behold POP!, right in the jaw. Rung my bell pretty good. Of course his "buddies" decide to join in.

Now, I'm not a "fighter" and again, probably don't look like anything much in that category, but between the four of them, lets just say that I only took the one hit. Granted, they were drunker than skunks, but there were four of them. I remember walking back down to my car and realizing that, as the adrenaline was waning, that I wasn't winded at all. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug! All in all, it probably lasted at most, two minutes but it seemed like a half an hour thinking back on it.

What's the point? The "fight" part has much to do with your mindset and unwillingness to get your arse kicked at times. It also made me realize that I got really lucky in that I didn't take any shots from any of them as my abdomen isn't really in any shape to take a shot or two and not feel the effects. I've since doubled my efforts to work out. What does that mean? It means the wife has to put up with us DVR'ing our favorite shows at night and watching them during our lunch so I can go to bed an hour earlier and get up at 5:30 in the morning.

Time can be made, but there's always a trade off. She likes to snuggle up on the couch and watch our shows before bed. Sorry babe, I'd rather tack on a few more useful years to my life and watch them during lunch. Now all I need to do is get rid of Stupid Human Trick Number One... smoking. That'll be a tough one, methinks.

[JHC]

I'm not in the best shape, I know that and I'm working on it, but I'm not in as bad of shape as people may take me for by my appearance. I can shoot, move, go prone, get up and do it all with a smile on my face and not be huffing and puffing.

Recently, an unfortunate occurrence came my way. I work at a bar part time and went down to check my schedule one evening after a work party (no drinking) and my little brother was there. Plastered off his arse. Puking on the sidewalk and making a fool of himself. So rather than put him in my brand new car and have him puke all over it, I opted to walk him home, about three blocks. Everything was hunkey dory until we got to his place. He wanted to "talk" about some of our previous issues. Being that he wasn't in a really great state of mind, I said no. He got angry and started yelling.

Right then, three of his "buddies" showed up wondering where we wandered off to. I said I was leaving and they could handle him from there. I handed him back his keys and turned to walk away. That's when he said "You know what, you're a piece of s&it!". Stunned at his attitude after getting his drunk arse home, I turned to say 'that's enough' when lo and behold POP!, right in the jaw. Rung my bell pretty good. Of course his "buddies" decide to join in.

Now, I'm not a "fighter" and again, probably don't look like anything much in that category, but between the four of them, lets just say that I only took the one hit. Granted, they were drunker than skunks, but there were four of them. I remember walking back down to my car and realizing that, as the adrenaline was waning, that I wasn't winded at all. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug! All in all, it probably lasted at most, two minutes but it seemed like a half an hour thinking back on it.

What's the point? The "fight" part has much to do with your mindset and unwillingness to get your arse kicked at times. It also made me realize that I got really lucky in that I didn't take any shots from any of them as my abdomen isn't really in any shape to take a shot or two and not feel the effects. I've since doubled my efforts to work out. What does that mean? It means the wife has to put up with us DVR'ing our favorite shows at night and watching them during our lunch so I can go to bed an hour earlier and get up at 5:30 in the morning.

Time can be made, but there's always a trade off. She likes to snuggle up on the couch and watch our shows before bed. Sorry babe, I'd rather tack on a few more useful years to my life and watch them during lunch. Now all I need to do is get rid of Stupid Human Trick Number One... smoking. That'll be a tough one, methinks.

Damn good training right there. ;)

[MDS]

... my little brother ... POP! , right in the jaw...

Ah, nothing better than some brotherly love for pt and ecqc practice. I sometimes wish my brother and I still fought like we used to... ;)

[Shellback]

On a similar note of getting kids involved, creating a love of physical activity, and learning some practical SD skills, I'm planning on getting this for my daughter for Christmas :
http://secure.gracieacademy.com/categories/dvds/GSD-GBPDVD.html

I think we'll both get a lot out of it, and it should be a fun Daddy/daughter activity.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

I'm contemplating buying these as well. Let me know what you think if and when you get them.

[NickA]

I'm contemplating buying these as well. Let me know what you think if and when you get them.

Will do, if she doesn't beat me up too bad :D

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[ljgrohn]

I'm contemplating buying these as well. Let me know what you think if and when you get them.

I've used them in a youth program, they're pretty good. Teaching tips for the parent and good information. On top of that they are well made.

[JeffWard]

My FIRST post in Pistol-Forum... is one I'm passionate about, since I'm a Strength and Conditioning Coach for a living!

I keep threatening to write a book on fitness for shooters, training for agility, speed, power, grip strength, core strength, etc. I regularly set up stages for USPSA matches at my home club, and the members always comment about how my stages seem to integrate something of a physical challenge. I joke that some day I'm going to set up a "gun loaded on barrel start" in the shooting bay, with a start box about 50-70 yards away. At the sound of the buzzer, sprint 50 yards to the barrel, pick up your gun, and shoot a course of fire with 20+ rounds, and plenty of movement, including a few 20-25 yard shots on 8" plates... I'd likely get banned for life by the "old fat guys" (self-proclaimed) that I shoot with! Maybe I'll give them the option of a closer box with a 15 second penalty...

JeffWard

[JHC]

My FIRST post in Pistol-Forum... is one I'm passionate about, since I'm a Strength and Conditioning Coach for a living!

I keep threatening to write a book on fitness for shooters, training for agility, speed, power, grip strength, core strength, etc. I regularly set up stages for USPSA matches at my home club, and the members always comment about how my stages seem to integrate something of a physical challenge. I joke that some day I'm going to set up a "gun loaded on barrel start" in the shooting bay, with a start box about 50-70 yards away. At the sound of the buzzer, sprint 50 yards to the barrel, pick up your gun, and shoot a course of fire with 20+ rounds, and plenty of movement, including a few 20-25 yard shots on 8" plates... I'd likely get banned for life by the "old fat guys" (self-proclaimed) that I shoot with! Maybe I'll give them the option of a closer box with a 15 second penalty...

JeffWard

Nice! I'm waiting for stages that start with a set of 10 chinups on the clock. :cool:

[JeffWard]

Nice! I'm waiting for stages that start with a set of 10 chinups on the clock. :cool:

That could take a few guys all night... Hey! And I'm 250-255lbs. 10 chin-ups ain't always easy!

Jeff

[JV_]

I joke that some day I'm going to set up a "gun loaded on barrel start" in the shooting bay, with a start box about 50-70 yards away. At the sound of the buzzer, sprint 50 yards to the barrel, pick up your gun, and shoot a course of fire with 20+ rounds, and plenty of movement, including a few 20-25 yard shots on 8" plates...I keep trying to get short sprints, long/difficult shots, and a lot of other things I'd find fun/challenging, integrated in to our matches - but the reality is, only a few of us would be excited to do it.

Perhaps we need to setup a match, and let them know well in advance that it will be physically challenging. If you don't want to do it, don't sign up.

[JHC]

That could take a few guys all night... Hey! And I'm 250-255lbs. 10 chin-ups ain't always easy!

Jeff

Yep. That's the plan. I only weigh 165. hehehehe

[JodyH]

Nice! I'm waiting for stages that start with a set of 10 chinups on the clock. :cool:
I'm in.
Make it 10 sentry pull-ups.

[JHC]

I'm in.
Make it 10 sentry pull-ups.

What is a sentry pullup?????

[JodyH]

What is a sentry pullup?????
You do a pullup then transition to a press up.
Basically you start hanging and finish above the bar with your arms straight.
Back in my climbing days I was a pull-up monster.
10 one arm were no problem.
2 or 3 1 finger pull-ups were my party trick.
(I'm 180#)

Like this guy, but on a pull-up bar instead of hand grips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fMFY30y2WE

[JHC]

You do a pullup then transition to a press up.
Basically you start hanging and finish above the bar with your arms straight.

Like this guy, but on a pull-up bar instead of hand grips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fMFY30y2WE

Like a muscle up on rings???? That's bullshit man. :mad: ;)

[MDS]

What is a sentry pullup?????

Can i use my legs?

[Shellback]

I've used them in a youth program, they're pretty good. Teaching tips for the parent and good information. On top of that they are well made.

Thanks. I've decided I'm going to be ordering them.

[Al T.]

stages that start with a set of 10 chinups

Rob Pincus approved that message...... :D

[JHC]

Rob Pincus approved that message...... :D

OUCH! I didn't see that coming. :D:D:D

[ljgrohn]

Thanks. I've decided I'm going to be ordering them.

Awesome man! Enjoy that time with your kids :)

[NickA]

That could take a few guys all night... Hey! And I'm 250-255lbs. 10 chin-ups ain't always easy!

Jeff


You do a pullup then transition to a press up.
Basically you start hanging and finish above the bar with your arms straight.
Back in my climbing days I was a pull-up monster.
10 one arm were no problem.
2 or 3 1 finger pull-ups were my party trick.
(I'm 180#)

Like this guy, but on a pull-up bar instead of hand grips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fMFY30y2WE

So if you're like me and these posts reminded you that you suck at pull ups (in my case, despite regular weight training, though I wouldn't call myself "strong" yet), I dug around and found a few programs :
http://artofmanliness.com/2008/07/08/pull-ups-fitness-routine/

http://twentypullups.com

articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/how-to-do-more-pull-ups/
Not sure which one I'll try, have to see what fits best with the 5/3/1 program I've been working. I can maybe bang out 1 or 2 good, honest,full range pull ups (maybe), have to do an actual test before working out to see for sure.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[Cheap Shot]

You do a pullup then transition to a press up.
Basically you start hanging and finish above the bar with your arms straight.
Back in my climbing days I was a pull-up monster.
10 one arm were no problem.
2 or 3 1 finger pull-ups were my party trick.
(I'm 180#)

Like this guy, but on a pull-up bar instead of hand grips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fMFY30y2WE

Respect JodyH

As someone who has failed many times at accomplishing a one arm PU and a MU

As far as me ever trying a one finger PU, I'm directing one finger at my computer screen right now:)

[Cheap Shot]

And just to show what a delicate little ego I have. A muscle up on rings is fairly easy to do. On a pull up bar, not so much......

[JHC]

And just to show what a delicate little ego I have. A muscle up on rings is fairly easy to do. On a pull up bar, not so much......

Well that's bad news.

[Cheap Shot]

Well that's bad news.

I know you've got the strength. Its the technique or trick in how you grip it, and transition from pullup to elbows above hands then pushing straight down.

Jodyh can probably explain it better. Gimme some time on you tube to see if I can find something

Apologize to OP for thread drift

[JodyH]

The transition is dynamic, you really have to have a smooth explosive pull up and good technique to avoid injury.

I used to have a fingerboard above the hallway entrance in my house, every time you walked under it you had to do 5 pull-ups.
That's 5-10 pull ups every time you walked from the living room to the bathroom, or the kitchen, or the bedroom.
That adds up over a day, week, year.

btw: 10 years later my tendons and rotators hate me

[JHC]

The transition is dynamic, you really have to have a smooth explosive pull up and good technique to avoid injury.

I used to have a fingerboard above the hallway entrance in my house, every time you walked under it you had to do 5 pull-ups.
That's 5-10 pull ups every time you walked from the living room to the bathroom, or the kitchen, or the bedroom.
That adds up over a day, week, year.

btw: 10 years later my tendons and rotators hate me

About 15 years ago I got serious about pullups chinups (inspired by Charles Poliquin) and made it the center of my back training. I gained a LOT of performance ie 30 bodyweight pullups or 8-10 chins with 50 lbs at a bodyweight usually around 165. My posture has gotten progressively worse and then I learned that pullup/chinups can screw up the rounded shoulders syndrome I've seen Kyle Defoor write also plagues the SEAL community for unbalancd training.

But the net is now at 55 my shoulders stopped tolerating pullups very well anymore. Supinated chins and parallel grip chins still ok. I need to back off on them anyway. I hate to cause it's about the only thing I'm close to "strong" at. lol

[Cheap Shot]

The transition is dynamic, you really have to have a smooth explosive pull up and good technique to avoid injury.

I used to have a fingerboard above the hallway entrance in my house, every time you walked under it you had to do 5 pull-ups.
That's 5-10 pull ups every time you walked from the living room to the bathroom, or the kitchen, or the bedroom.
That adds up over a day, week, year.

btw: 10 years later my tendons and rotators hate me

I feel ya.

Chronic problems with tendons in my forearms and elbows pretty much remain as a constant reminder of my life long bad judgment.

[NickA]

About 15 years ago I got serious about pullups chinups (inspired by Charles Poliquin) and made it the center of my back training. I gained a LOT of performance ie 30 bodyweight pullups or 8-10 chins with 50 lbs at a bodyweight usually around 165. My posture has gotten progressively worse and then I learned that pullup/chinups can screw up the rounded shoulders syndrome I've seen Kyle Defoor write also plagues the SEAL community for unbalancd training.

But the net is now at 55 my shoulders stopped tolerating pullups very well anymore. Supinated chins and parallel grip chins still ok. I need to back off on them anyway. I hate to cause it's about the only thing I'm close to "strong" at. lol

FWIW I've read in a few different places that there's not any meaningful difference between chin ups and pull ups as far as muscles worked, and many trainers seem to recommend switching up your grip anyway. In any case, I'm sure doing either is better than doing neither :)

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[Shellback]

My posture has gotten progressively worse and then I learned that pullup/chinups can screw up the rounded shoulders syndrome I've seen Kyle Defoor write also plagues the SEAL community for unbalancd training.

I'd like to learn more. What's rounded shoulders syndrome? Are pull ups bad for posture? I read on Defoor's blog that he thought pull ups are the best strength exercise. http://www.kyledefoor.com/2009_08_01_archive.html Please direct me to what you're referring to if you have it bookmarked. Thanks.

[JHC]

I'd like to learn more. What's rounded shoulders syndrome? Are pull ups bad for posture? I read on Defoor's blog that he thought pull ups are the best strength exercise. http://www.kyledefoor.com/2009_08_01_archive.html Please direct me to what you're referring to if you have it bookmarked. Thanks.

Check out Poliquin's discussion here: http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/835/A_Smart_Look_at_Rows.aspx

Over the decades I hit the double wammy over focusing on bench and chinups. Or maybe I'm just beat down. ;)

[JHC]

I'd like to learn more. What's rounded shoulders syndrome? Are pull ups bad for posture? I read on Defoor's blog that he thought pull ups are the best strength exercise. http://www.kyledefoor.com/2009_08_01_archive.html Please direct me to what you're referring to if you have it bookmarked. Thanks.

Good read from Defoor. I still agree with him and Poliquin on the value of pullups. Poliquin calls them the king of upper body excercises. But balance I guess. And somewhere Defoor was writing about physical training and made an aside about the wrong training leading to rounded shoulders in the SEAL community. Now in your linked article he took the shot at bench which as Poliquin notes is another culprit so that may have been what he had in mind.

[Shellback]

Check out Poliquin's discussion here: http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/835/A_Smart_Look_at_Rows.aspx

thanks!

[JRas]

Agreed, it's much easier for people to buy high speed low-drag gear than eat right, hit the gym, and run. Look at some of the instructors teaching :o

How about people who only workout their upper bodies, tell me you don't know a few people in the Marine Corp who did that... Arms everyday


For example crossfit has a website with new daily work outs that are usually doable at your own home.

Crossfit Form OWNS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8up6A4QesU

[Ben B.]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/534569_4474130062853_376064402_n.jpg

Balance is super important. This is why guys get injured, doing the very thing they train for, or even during training... they over-strengthen one group of muscles, neglect the opposing set, and then it's just a matter of time before the scales are tipped and result in strain or injury to the weaker groups. If all you ever do is pull and pull and pull, your push muscles and tendons are just one minor hyper-extension from tearing.

[NickA]

Crossfit Form OWNS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8up6A4QesU
That's just awful.
OTOH the trainer I've been working with is a Crossfit instructor but is certified with Rippetoe (which is why I picked her) so she knows Olympic lifts very well. They're not all bad, just have to be careful who you listen to.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/534569_4474130062853_376064402_n.jpg

Saw two guys who look just like that at the gym this morning, never seen either do even a leg press.



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[JodyH]

Good read from Defoor. I still agree with him and Poliquin on the value of pullups. Poliquin calls them the king of upper body excercises. But balance I guess. And somewhere Defoor was writing about physical training and made an aside about the wrong training leading to rounded shoulders in the SEAL community. Now in your linked article he took the shot at bench which as Poliquin notes is another culprit so that may have been what he had in mind.
So that's why I walk like an orangutang.

I try to get a mix of upper body calisthenics in.
Push ups with multiple hand positions, pull ups and chin ups (again with multiple hand positions).
Throw in the occasional headstand pushup set.
I think varying hand position and alternating push/pull exercises minimizes overuse injury or injury from being unbalanced.

[JHC]

Sure. And in the linked Poliquin article he makes a point I never noticed when he was really influencing my training many years ago. For every chin, do another more direct row to maintain balance in the back. I only kept my balance between pushing and pulling fairly even - but he indicates both of those "opposing" exercises can serve to pull my shoulders down. Oops. At times I thought it was due to so much AIWB carry and either checking for printing or trying to drape. ;) There are a lot of AIWB FAST vids where the shooter looks like a pullup/bench press monster. ;)

[TCinVA]

Check out Poliquin's discussion here: http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/835/A_Smart_Look_at_Rows.aspx

Over the decades I hit the double wammy over focusing on bench and chinups. Or maybe I'm just beat down. ;)

Thanks for the link. One of the things I'm really keen to get stronger faster is my upper back...and that's a part of the puzzle I was missing.