Brenneke STYLE slugs?

[Pnut]

I was looking to stock up on 12 gauge slugs and picked up a case of Rio brand slugs. I don’t have any experience with Rio ammo, but I got them because they were about $6 per box of 5, compared to $8-$12 for other brands. I also got them because they were in stock.

Once I got them home, I did a little research and discovered they are loaded with BRENNEKE STYLE slugs. Most of my limited experience with slugs has been with Foster style slugs… mostly Federal, Fiocchi, and Winchester.

Should I expect any performance differences with these out of my 1301T? The gun is zero’d at 25 yards with Foster slugs.

Also… who else offers Brenneke style slugs? I’ve found offerings from Rio, Brenneke and Rottweil.

[GJM]

I zero at 25 with Brenneke Classic Magnum 2.75 slugs, and Winchester Foster 2.75 hit to the same POI.

[Wes Peart]

Brownells has the Brenneke 12ga KO's on sale for 5.99 a box plus 10% off if you can find the over $100 code, would much rather have the real deal.

I really wish Rio still made their Armored Slug, that was a spicy meatball!

[Pnut]

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I live in California, so online purchases are a no-go, I’m limited the what the stores have on their shelves. I wanted to stock up now because the state is adding an 11% tax on gun related items in July!

[Erick Gelhaus]

Can you share a photo of the box & a shell, please? Looking for a bit more info. Thank you.

[GJM]

Brownells has the Brenneke 12ga KO's on sale for 5.99 a box plus 10% off if you can find the over $100 code, would much rather have the real deal.

I really wish Rio still made their Armored Slug, that was a spicy meatball!

In years past, I remember them offering a different slug with a heavy duty military type name. When you got into the detail, it was just a classic magnum in a different box. Not sure if it is this one.

[TCinVA]

I was looking to stock up on 12 gauge slugs and picked up a case of Rio brand slugs. I don’t have any experience with Rio ammo,

Results with Rio can range from acceptable to lamenting that you were not fortunate enough to have died in the womb.



Once I got them home, I did a little research and discovered they are loaded with BRENNEKE STYLE slugs. Most of my limited experience with slugs has been with Foster style slugs… mostly Federal, Fiocchi, and Winchester.

Should I expect any performance differences with these out of my 1301T? The gun is zero’d at 25 yards with Foster slugs.

Also… who else offers Brenneke style slugs? I’ve found offerings from Rio, Brenneke and Rottweil.

You may find that they shoot to a very different point of aim. Or they may shoot to exactly the same point of aim as your existing zero. That's one of the fun things about shotguns, there's just so much you can't possibly know without shooting the shells you have through your gun to see what happens.

As an example, when we taught Performance Shotgun weekend before last I shot a wide variety of slugs from the clients in the class through my new SBS barrel and to my surprise almost all of them hit inside one great big hole. Which is lovely in any normal circumstance but a real pain in the balls when you're trying to make the point that slugs can have radically different impact points. I just kept shooting different slugs and saying "One of these damn things has to give me something to work with" but, alas, they did not.

Brenneke style slugs tend to have some of the same advantages as wadcutters do as a defensive round. The sharp shoulder on them provides a significant cutting action if the slug itself is made of a hard enough alloy to hold together in the target. This means that like a wadcutter it tends to punch a caliber sized hole through whatever it hits and keeps going.

Except instead of it being a 148 grain wadcutter .355 inches in diameter going ~ 800 FPS it's a 437 grain wadcutter ~ .72 inches in diameter going 1,300-1,600 FPS. It's about double in every measurable statistic, but that translates into exponentially more punch on the receiving end.

They can be just as accurate as any other slug fired from a non-rifled barrel.

[Pnut]

Can you share a photo of the box & a shell, please? Looking for a bit more info. Thank you.

Here’s a link from Rio’s web site…. If you want detailed photos, I’ll take some later.

[Pnut]

Here’s some photos of the rounds…
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119828

[FNFAN]

In years past, I remember them offering a different slug with a heavy duty military type name. When you got into the detail, it was just a classic magnum in a different box. Not sure if it is this one.

I think that is the Brenneke "Special Forces" short magnum. They indicated the sabot has a different alloy for more penetration than their other offerings.

[DrkBlue]

Here’s some photos of the rounds…
119827
119828

1410 fps? Sound spicy.
How hard does that lead feel?
How are they patterning?

[Pnut]

I’ll let you guys know once I hit the range!

Most of my other slugs are labeled LOW RECOIL, ranging from 1200-1300 fps depending on brand. I also have a few boxes of standard slugs that state 1500 fps. So the Rios fall somewhere in the middle.

[DamonL]

Here’s a link from Rio’s web site…. If you want detailed photos, I’ll take some later.

There's no link, but I think this is what you are talking about:

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/rio-royal-brenneke-12-gauge-ammo-2-3-4-1-1-8-oz-slug-shot-250-rounds-rbk12-p-112285.aspx

[Pnut]

Whoops… my cut n’ paste skills aren’t the best. Here’s the link I meant to post.
https://www.riflegear.com/p-23638-rio-royal-star-slug-12ga-275-1125oz-250rd-bulk-case.aspx

[Erick Gelhaus]

Well, that looks like what's in a couple of cases I picked up last fall. It's not Brenneke-like, rather just another Foster-style slug.

[the Schwartz]

Brenneke slugs offer excellent terminal performance.

Analyses of the Brenneke can be found here—

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?32530-Predictive-tests-in-water&p=777714&viewfull=1#post777714

They were issued to our Field Operations Division and to SRT. Their performance in the field was superior across more than a dozen OIS.

[Pnut]

Well, that looks like what's in a couple of cases I picked up last fall. It's not Brenneke-like, rather just another Foster-style slug.

Out of curiosity, I just cut one open to see. I don’t know what the differences are between a Foster and Brenneke slug, so hopefully someone here can shed some light.

The plastic tail section was firmly embedded in the end of the slug and took a little force to remove.

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[Wes Peart]

Out of curiosity, I just cut one open to see. I don’t know what the differences are between a Foster and Brenneke slug, so hopefully someone here can shed some light.

The plastic tail section was firmly embedded in the end of the slug and took a little force to remove.

119873
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119875

I just bought a case of these "Troy YTR" slugs to try out from what I believe is a Turkish importer. Appears they are one and the same. For around 65 cents a piece shipped I figured it was worth a try.

https://i.ibb.co/PGXpnQZ/IMG-20240614-001131515.jpg (https://ibb.co/fd6R5vY)

[Pnut]

So are they foster or Brenneke?!?!

[DamonL]

They are Foster. Foster slugs are hollow based and Brenekke are solids. Brenekke style might refer to the shape of the front of the slug that looks like a Brenneke but it is not a solid. This article has a good explanation and pictures showing the difference.

https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/ammunition/ammunition-shotgun-slugs-101

[DamonL]

This is probably why they use the Brenneke shape in a Foster slug.



Brenneke style slugs tend to have some of the same advantages as wadcutters do as a defensive round. The sharp shoulder on them provides a significant cutting action if the slug itself is made of a hard enough alloy to hold together in the target. This means that like a wadcutter it tends to punch a caliber sized hole through whatever it hits and keeps going.

Except instead of it being a 148 grain wadcutter .355 inches in diameter going ~ 800 FPS it's a 437 grain wadcutter ~ .72 inches in diameter going 1,300-1,600 FPS. It's about double in every measurable statistic, but that translates into exponentially more punch on the receiving end.

They can be just as accurate as any other slug fired from a non-rifled barrel.

[diananike]

I just bought a case of these "Troy YTR" slugs to try out from what I believe is a Turkish importer. Appears they are one and the same. For around 65 cents a piece shipped I figured it was worth a try.

https://i.ibb.co/PGXpnQZ/IMG-20240614-001131515.jpg (https://ibb.co/fd6R5vY)

These look a lot like the Italian made “Thug” slugs.
They are a common component for cheaper loads used by Canadian manufacturers like Score and Challenger.
Ballistic gel tests show some pretty violent expansion from slugs like these with penetration around 10” depending on the velocity of the load.
The local Conservation officer shot a small bear on my deck with one a few years ago and I dug 3 fragments out of the deck and siding.
Definitely not up to Brenneke standards.
I’d say they’re even more fragile than a normal foster slug.
They do offer great accuracy though. They group even better then Federal truball in my 1301.

[167]

One of the key distinctions between a Brenneke style slug and a foster style slug is how the slug is stabilized in flight. Foster slugs have a weight forward design built into the projectile itself by having a hollow base, which gives it a weight forward bias and this keeps the front at the front while in flight. Brenneke style slugs use a wad system that remains attached to the projectile in flight to give the projectile (slug and attached wad) a forward weight bias so that it flies in a predictable way through the air.

This is not the only difference, but is one of the key differences.

The pictured Rio slugs appear to use an attached wad sort of system, but also look lighter and more hollow than most Brenneke slugs. The newer generation of Brennekes that use a plastic wad also have a shallow hollow base. The wad collapses and locks into the hollow base when the slug is fired. The classic Brenneke slug uses a fiber wad with rubber disks that are held onto the slug with a screw.

Fiocchi slugs are similar to the pictured Rio slugs. It is sort of a hybrid approach to the shotgun slug. The slug itself closely resembles a foster type slug, but it still uses an attached wad for stability.

The issue that I have had with slug designs that rely on an attached wad for stability is that sometimes the wad doesn't stay attached. This will have a negative effect on accuracy, and in my experience was unpredictable enough that I stay away from that style of slug generally. Your experience may be different, you just have to make sure you vet the slug at whatever extended ranges you intend to use it. I was picking up on issues as close as 50 yards.

If you want more info on the differences between foster and Brenneke style slugs including some pictures, there is some more info at the link, but I don't feel like copying and pasting it all over here.

https://thatshotgunblog.wordpress.com/2021/11/01/the-rifled-slug/

[Pnut]

Just an update… I went to the range today to test out the Rio ammo. My 1301 was previously zero’d at 25 yards with Winchester Ranger low recoil slugs (1 Oz @ 1200 fps). The Rios were just as accurate but seemed to shoot about 2” to the left, but that could have been me. They do recoil more than the low recoil stuff, but not painful or unbearable. They were never advertised as low recoil anyhow.

I shot 20 rounds without any gun malfunctions. I checked my cardboard target afterwards and it looked like all the slugs retained their plastic bases… no keyholing and no extra impacts from separated bases.

I’m satisfied with this ammo for the price and reliability.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Tuesday I had the chance to help with a training day at a buddy's department. Happened to have a Vang'd Remington and three different loads with me.

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Ok, so, now that I found the data sheets, I see the comparison to the Brenneke design.

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Here's one I cut apart. Interesting design for the wad. Otherwise, this one seems like a Foster slug.

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Had the chance to shoot three loads through the body and C pillar on a mini-van from the teens. Hornady TAP Light Magnum, original Brenneke slug with the screwed-in felt base, and the reduced recoil Rio slug.

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3 of the pellets exited, but we didn't have a witness target. Both slugs departed the van too.

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Hornady's entry on the pillar & path.

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The path of the Rio slug

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The Brenneke did nicely but appeared to have deflected.

For problems involving intermediate barriers, I'm still a fan of the shotgun.

To the OP - thanks for getting me to look at it.