Very Low Recoil Defense loads for shotgun

[Dov]

We (the forum) know two low recoil 12 gauge loads for defense:

Hornady low recoil TAP 8 pellet OO buck, my understanding is it is noticeably lighter on recoil than Federal 8 pellet but uses same type of Flite Control wad under different name https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?58712-A-look-at-Hornady-Versatite-8-pellet-00B

via Demonstrated Concepts Fiocchi Defense Dynamics 12 Gauge 2-3/4" #1 Buckshot 9 Pellets real low recoil load

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpF7bMIW3_M

Midway link
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/102326523

For 410 the 4 and 5 pellet OOO buck loads should be good to go https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?58880-Mossberg-590-shockwave-410

Are there any other good choices for 12 or 20 gauge?

[TCinVA]

Looking at the payload weight and the velocity will give you a good idea of what kind of recoil it offers.

The linked Hornady load shows 1,100 FPS...which is the same statistics as Federal's low recoil 8 pellet FC load.

The Fiocchi load in the youtube video is 9 pellets at 1250. Heavier payload (although not by much) going faster which = a little more felt recoil. I've shot a few hundred of those shells and I've never noticed them being particularly concerning for recoil.

1100 FPS is about as low as you're going to find.

[MTP]

I patterned and shot a bunch (500+) of this exact Fiocchi load in my 1301, because a few months back I got for an incredible price from PSA. Weekly deal or something.

Recoil IMHO is comparable to low recoil FC, maybe a little harsher but I couldn't really tell the difference in the 1301. Definitely NOT lower recoil than FC.

Worth noting that, as expected, the patterns were abysmal compared to FC, and I made a note in my journal "only for use within 7 yards".

[RevolverRob]

Nothing exists in "Low Recoil" 20-gauge land. Therefore, nothing exists in "Very Low Recoil" land for 20-gauge.

[Guerrero]

Worth noting that, as expected, the patterns were abysmal compared to FC, and I made a note in my journal "only for use within 7 yards".

Even though RustyCrusty got great results out of his gun, my results were like MTP out of my 870. On the flip side, I also got a great deal on a case, so it would be great buckshot training ammo.

[Exiledviking]

Looking at the payload weight and the velocity will give you a good idea of what kind of recoil it offers.


I use the above method to calculate "power factor" in my competition 12 ga loads and also my pistol loads. Take the weight of the payload (1 oz = 437 grs or 1 1/18 = 492 grs) x the velocity and divide that number by 1000 for a power factor value. Most of the 12 ga birdshot loads I use for competition are around 525 PF (1 0z [437.5 grs] x 1200 fps ) / 1000 = 525.
I find it helpful using the PF(!) when buying shotgun ammo for competition.

[chances R]

https://www.remington.com/shotshell/29-20282.html-

Remington LowRecoil 00 loads. I used this in a RangeMaster course. Very manageable. Nice patterns. 8 pellet

[mmc45414]

I use the above method to calculate "power factor" in my competition 12 ga loads and also my pistol loads. Take the weight of the payload (1 oz = 437 grs or 1 1/18 = 492 grs) x the velocity and divide that number by 1000 for a power factor value. Most of the 12 ga birdshot loads I use for competition are around 525 PF (1 0z [437.5 grs] x 1200 fps ) / 1000 = 525.
I find it helpful using the PF(!) when buying shotgun ammo for competition.
What kind of competition?
I do a lot of shotshell reloading, mostly 3/4oz for skeet, low recoil and shot is the biggest cost component.
And I have been doing 1-1/2oz for 3gun, but I typically save them for when I encounter one of the MGM spinner targets (like I expect to this weekend). But they also mimic lighter buckshot loads.
But I have been thinking about trying some 7/8oz or 1oz loads of #6 (cheap #6 shells seems to be an oxymoron).

[Exiledviking]

What kind of competition?
I do a lot of shotshell reloading, mostly 3/4oz for skeet, low recoil and shot is the biggest cost component.
And I have been doing 1-1/2oz for 3gun, but I typically save them for when I encounter one of the MGM spinner targets (like I expect to this weekend). But they also mimic lighter buckshot loads.
But I have been thinking about trying some 7/8oz or 1oz loads of #6 (cheap #6 shells seems to be an oxymoron).

The local 3-gun matches. We encounter primarily pepper poppers and launched clay pigeons. Also, they like to throw in the Texas Star every so often. I've found that the 1 oz load of 7.5 shot at 1200 fps works well for these matches.

[mmc45414]

I've found that the 1 oz load of 7.5 shot at 1200 fps works well for these matches.
I have been thinking about getting a 1oz bar...

[Duelist]

Nothing exists in "Low Recoil" 20-gauge land. Therefore, nothing exists in "Very Low Recoil" land for 20-gauge.

Point of order: Low recoil 20 gauge loads do exist, as 20 gauge loads exist ranging from under 1000fps to 1600fps. For example, this trap load is 980fps: https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Shotshell/AA/AA20FL8 and is marketed as low noise and low recoil.

If they can make a trap load that is deliberately low noise and recoil, it stands to reason they can figure out a low recoil buckshot or slug load. I have not seen such a low recoil buck or slug in 20g (1145fps is the lowest velocity buck load I have seen), but all that is required is enough people to want it, and a company to make it to fill that demand.

[RevolverRob]

Point of order: Low recoil 20 gauge loads do exist, as 20 gauge loads exist ranging from under 1000fps to 1600fps. For example, this trap load is 980fps: https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Shotshell/AA/AA20FL8 and is marketed as low noise and low recoil.

If they can make a trap load that is deliberately low noise and recoil, it stands to reason they can figure out a low recoil buckshot or slug load. I have not seen such a low recoil buck or slug in 20g (1145fps is the lowest velocity buck load I have seen), but all that is required is enough people to want it, and a company to make it to fill that demand.

I'm not sure if things under 1150fps can run the various autoloaders reliably. But your point is taken.

We also have to remember though that most shotgun loads are chronographed from 28" barrels and the ~25-50fps per inch of barrel muzzle velocity of pistols is similar to shotguns (unsurprising since they often use powders of similar burn rates). So a trap load that is 980fps from a 28" gun, may be ~750fps from an 18" barrel.

Actually, that sounds pretty nice ~800fps from a 21" 870 would be a nice comfortable load to shoot all day long.

[spence]

Well shit. I’ve got two cases of this stuff. I bought several boxes of the OO in 2020, and it really patterns pretty well considering. So I bought a couple cases of this stuff from PSA, and everything on the box is the same except that specification of it being OO. Definitely didn’t notice it when I got the first case, and haven’t shot any of it yet. Hopefully it patterns decent still, though it really was purchased namely as a training load being FFC is spendy.

[167]

Point of order: Low recoil 20 gauge loads do exist, as 20 gauge loads exist ranging from under 1000fps to 1600fps. For example, this trap load is 980fps: https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Shotshell/AA/AA20FL8 and is marketed as low noise and low recoil.

If they can make a trap load that is deliberately low noise and recoil, it stands to reason they can figure out a low recoil buckshot or slug load. I have not seen such a low recoil buck or slug in 20g (1145fps is the lowest velocity buck load I have seen), but all that is required is enough people to want it, and a company to make it to fill that demand.

I believe this came up in the thread about Federal's new 20ga FC #2 buckshot load. They couldn't pull too much off the velocity or it would compromise the load's ability to penetrate the target reliably. In 12 gauge where we are typically working with 00, a lot more steam can be pulled off and still maintain reliably penetration of the target.

With enough effort, I am sure someone could figure it out though. At least a little bit.

[Default.mp3]

Are the Brenneke THDs actually low recoil, or simply lower recoil compared to their other offerings?

I'll note that the THDs do come in 20 gauge, though obviously it's a slug and not shot.

[Tabasco]

Forgot to quote, see reply below.

[Tabasco]

Are the Brenneke THDs actually low recoil, or simply lower recoil compared to their other offerings?

I'll note that the THDs do come in 20 gauge, though obviously it's a slug and not shot.

They feel close to low recoil Fed Truball.

[Dov]

They feel close to low recoil Fed Truball.

Are the THD like regular brenneke slugs or foster type?

[Tabasco]

Are the THD like regular brenneke slugs or foster type?

Brenneke.

[Pnut]

I have a couple boxes of the Brenneke THD slugs I picked up a while back, but I haven’t shot any yet. The box states 1509 fps! My GO TO slug for range use is Fiocchi low recoil which claims 1150 fps. It shoots pretty soft, is reasonably priced, and usually available at my stores.

I’ve also shot the Federal low recoil stuff and it shot well. I didn’t do a side by side with the Fiocchi though. The Federal claims 1300 fps.

[mmc45414]

Looking at the payload weight and the velocity will give you a good idea of what kind of recoil it offers.

Yup, it is simply math.
Seems like the trend has always been to reduce velocity (with maybe a slight reduction in payload from 9 to 8), maybe reducing payload and maintaining velocity would be a valid alternative approach, and reducing shot size might be a way to reduce the payload, rather than bumping up the count as diameter is reduced. If Qty9 of #00 is the established standard that is known to be effective, perhaps Qty10 of #1 at the same velocity would be much more manageable in pump guns and still over 400 grains on target. Maybe single ought has been overlooked?

118945

And I had all this typed up before I actually watched all of the video... :cool:

[Malamute]

With a shoulder and back injury Ive been unable to shoot shotguns, other than a 410 in a gauge reducer. The answer for my use was to remove the stock. When I tried a shockwave, I had a way to shoot shotguns again. Ive been on the lookout for a beater stock for my model 12 to cut down to raptor type.

[Exiledviking]

I'm way out of my lane here, but wouldn't you need more weight of the pellet in order to get proper penetration when velocity is reduced? I'm thinking 000 might be the ticket even though you'll have fewer pellets.

[mmc45414]

I'm way wouldn't you need more weight of the pellet in order to get proper penetration when velocity is reduced?
Or simply the same number of smaller/lighter pellets at the higher typical velocity? The video is cool because it just points out that swapping out the same number of #1 for the #00 makes for a nice grouping load (without the magic wad...) still at good velocity.

[spence]

I saw this thread a while ago, and maybe saw discussion on the Fiocchi buck loads somewhere else, but I have to come back to it.

I first bought several boxes of the Fiocchi boxes marked OOB in 2020 when things were impossible to find. It patterned alright in the pump gun I had at the time. Got a 1301 not quite two years ago, and it patterned quite well in it, especially compared to LE132 and LE133. So I bought a case of Fiocchi marked OO from PSA last November. Hulls are the same blue color, brass the same length as the 2020 production stuff. Part number 12EXOOBK.

Bought a second case of Fiocchi buck from PSA a couple months ago. Didn't even think to look all that close because it appeared to be the same. Except it's not. Low brass like light birdshot loads, clear in color. Part number 12EX9P.

Yeah, they're all 1B. I'd cut apart one of the 2020 shells before, but didn't look close enough, apparently. Cut apart one from each case of the newer stuff, and they all averaged around .30 cal, right at 40 grains. Only difference in the two is the wad is slightly different on the 12EX9P, and I hope that doesn't make it pattern like crap.

I also had one each of Federal Power Shok 9 pellet OO and Hornady Critical Defense #86240 8 pellet, they both averaged similarly, though a little light at .32 caliber and 47 grains per pellet.

February 2023, I chronographed several rounds from the 1301, the 8 pellet FFC averaged 1110 fps and the Fiocchi 1224. I'm not really mad about it, especially with the price, but it would be nice for things to be marked correctly.

[Dov]

I saw this thread a while ago, and maybe saw discussion on the Fiocchi buck loads somewhere else, but I have to come back to it.

I first bought several boxes of the Fiocchi boxes marked OOB in 2020 when things were impossible to find. It patterned alright in the pump gun I had at the time. Got a 1301 not quite two years ago, and it patterned quite well in it, especially compared to LE132 and LE133. So I bought a case of Fiocchi marked OO from PSA last November. Hulls are the same blue color, brass the same length as the 2020 production stuff. Part number 12EXOOBK.

Bought a second case of Fiocchi buck from PSA a couple months ago. Didn't even think to look all that close because it appeared to be the same. Except it's not. Low brass like light birdshot loads, clear in color. Part number 12EX9P.

Yeah, they're all 1B. I'd cut apart one of the 2020 shells before, but didn't look close enough, apparently. Cut apart one from each case of the newer stuff, and they all averaged around .30 cal, right at 40 grains. Only difference in the two is the wad is slightly different on the 12EX9P, and I hope that doesn't make it pattern like crap.

I also had one each of Federal Power Shok 9 pellet OO and Hornady Critical Defense #86240 8 pellet, they both averaged similarly, though a little light at .32 caliber and 47 grains per pellet.

February 2023, I chronographed several rounds from the 1301, the 8 pellet FFC averaged 1110 fps and the Fiocchi 1224. I'm not really mad about it, especially with the price, but it would be nice for things to be marked correctly.

So the 1301 cycles fine with the Fioicchi No 1 B load? I might just give up and start budgeting for one of those.

[GearFondler]

So the 1301 cycles fine with the Fioicchi No 1 B load? I might just give up and start budgeting for one of those.Semi-joking response from the peanut gallery, but I'm pretty sure my 1301T would cycle with birdshot mini shells.

[spence]

So the 1301 cycles fine with the Fioicchi No 1 B load? I might just give up and start budgeting for one of those.

Yes. I haven’t found a load it won’t digest, but I don’t think I’ve run anything through it rated under 1200 fps sans Flite Control.


Semi-joking response from the peanut gallery, but I'm pretty sure my 1301T would cycle with birdshot mini shells.

I’d try it on a whim.

[LHS]

Yes. I haven’t found a load it won’t digest, but I don’t think I’ve run anything through it rated under 1200 fps sans Flite Control.



I’d try it on a whim.

I've yet to see any semi that will run the super-low-recoil AAs.