Good until it isn't - Gun shipped to FFL via FedEx missing

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Looking for review and advice.
I purchased a gun through Gunbroker. Had a great interaction with the seller, and he shipped the gun a timely manner once he had verified payment. I've got a copy of the shipping label sent by the seller. Last Friday (19 April), gave the FFL a heads up that the gun was marked out for delivery and he should see it that day. Early afternoon comes around and I see the tracking status is updated as "delivered". I go to the FFL's shop. He double checks his guns in for transfer and it isn't there. He states he hasn't signed for a gun from FedEx even though the FedEx site says it was signed for. The FFL owner says it wouldn't be the first time a FedEx driver signed for it and left it on the truck so he could finish his route on time, and states he's had problems with them. His recommendation was to follow up on Saturday. I check with the neighboring shops and another nearby FFL on the odd chance it was an error in delivery. No dice. I give the seller a heads up. Seller speaks to receiving FFL and gets same version of the story I did. I start a case with FedEx, even though I am not the sender nor the FFL addressee. Saturday, I followup and there is still no delivery to FFL. I followup with FedEx; per their initial investigation, they claim it was delivered and state the FFL has been a problem in the past.(Of note, the name listed as signing for it is 'aroberts'; the receiving FFL is a C Roberts). They state they are elevating the claim to a 'coordinator'. I let them know I was concerned as I don't like my name tied up with a missing gun (not to mention the cost...it ain't a HiPoint) and it's going to become an ATF issue. I spoke with the seller; he and I are on the same sheet of music, and he agrees that if the gun doesn't turn up by Monday afternoon, then he will have his (sending) FFL file a missing gun report with the ATF.

So I am at the point where I am certain the issue is between FedEx and my receiving FFL. I've never had a problem in the past like this with FedEx, with respect to a firearm. I've never had a problem with the Receiving FFL and have done gun related business through his shop before. Further, the Receiving FFL is a PawnShop who has been in business for over a decade in the area (coastal NC). I know of a case several years ago where he not only refused to buy suspected hot items, but contacted our county Sheriffs' Department to report the suspicious activity. His involvement led to an arrest. I've personally seen him decline to take items and ask people to leave when he had concerns about proper ownership of the materials being discussed. Also, a simple search doesn't bring up a litany of complaints, allegations etc. about his business, so it appears he is still operating legally and normally.

Taking both FedEx and the Receiving FFL at face value...they can't both be right. Is there a benefit to a receiving FFL claiming non-delivery for a few days, either for licit or illicit purposes? I get the potential for theft on either party's side, but is there another angle potentially at play?

In any case, if the gun doesn't show tomorrow by a reasonable point, I'm going to have to rely on ATF involvement. Any current and relevant advice, recommendations, other resources I should consider? I am not law enforcement and I do not work for a shipping company, so I may not know what I don't know.

[TGS]

I'd be lying if I didn't read the thread and immediately think it was about those turds at GBRS Douche Group trying to wreck another employee's life...

Sorry to hear about your situation. Wondering if rcbusmc24 might have some advice, being an FFL in your region.

[rcbusmc24]

Long gun or pistol?

Which shop in coastal NC?

Was the sender a FFL or a individual?

Pistols should be coming via Fed Ex Air, I get long guns and other stuff delivered via Fed EX ground. UPS brings everything on the same truck. If the shop receives regular deliveries then the driver knows your name, all of my delivery guys do... packages regularly get lost in the system as well and then just show up. There is no benefit to any FFL to try to keep a transferred in item. It was logged out by the transferring FFL to them so in a trace the next contact would be that shop. We used to have a UPS driver that would try to deliver before we were open regularly, then leave a tag on the door and take our stuff back to the Hub. It was a pain for a bit until he finally learned that we were not open until noon.

The package tracking systems are the bane of my existence when it comes to receiving transfers because they go off of projected delivery times, not actual deliveries. This is also one of two reasons why we don't do same day transfers and tell people to come in the next day, the other is because we get a lot of stuff and it takes time to get it into the books, computer and tagged.

[MVS]

FedEx lost a gun that Walther was shipping back to me. I wasn't there to sign for it the day and time he tried to deliver it. It was found by me weeks later at the local Dollar General. No idea how long it had been there. Sorry, I know that doesn't help you. For that and many other poor experiences I avoid FedEx whenever I can.

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Long gun or pistol?

Which shop in coastal NC?

Was the sender a FFL or a individual?

Pistols should be coming via Fed Ex Air, I get long guns and other stuff delivered via Fed EX ground. UPS brings everything on the same truck. If the shop receives regular deliveries then the driver knows your name, all of my delivery guys do... packages regularly get lost in the system as well and then just show up. There is no benefit to any FFL to try to keep a transferred in item. It was logged out by the transferring FFL to them so in a trace the next contact would be that shop. We used to have a UPS driver that would try to deliver before we were open regularly, then leave a tag on the door and take our stuff back to the Hub. It was a pain for a bit until he finally learned that we were not open until noon.

The package tracking systems are the bane of my existence when it comes to receiving transfers because they go off of projected delivery times, not actual deliveries. This is also one of two reasons why we don't do same day transfers and tell people to come in the next day, the other is because we get a lot of stuff and it takes time to get it into the books, computer and tagged.


-Pistol, shop in Onslow (until I know more, I'm keeping the specifics out of the public conversation), individual sender. Thanks for the feedback.

[Borderland]

I had a similar situation last summer with UPS. GB deal. Seller was an FFL in Omaha and I contacted a local FFL here that I've done business with before. He sent his license to FFL in Omaha for delivery.

FFL here sends me an email and says he closed his shop and he won't take delivery. Shotgun was already shipped when he did that. Instead of UPS sending it back they dropped it off at business next to the dealers shop. I know this because Omaha FFL tracked it and told me where it was. He suggested I go pick it up if I wanted it. I did that and transferred using another local FFL.

Real can of worms because of my dick head dealer and UPS. Shit can go sideways with these internet deals in a hurry.

Always insure your purchase when you have a firearm shipped. If your FFL said it wasn't delivered I'd go with stolen in transit. Especially a pistol.

Hope this gets resolved.

[theJanitor]

Edit. I misread. The individual sent the gun through a FFL

[echo5charlie]

Have the sending account open the inquiry with FedEx. You, as a third party, and the receiving FFL are of no consequence to FedEx - the shipper is their customer. Provided the shipper sent it FedEx Express (as they should have) it will be in FedExs hands proper and should be easy for FedEx to figure out.

In the past 15 years, not counting covid, my shop has had only a handful of shipping issues with UPS and USPS (send/receive) as well as FedEx (receive). In all cases where we had UPS start fumbling a delivery a quick call (as the sender) explaining it was a firearm and we would need to contact the ATF if they declared it lost seemed to work wonders. We have not yet had a firearm that we shipped end up lost. And we have shipped thousands of firearms.

I hope it shows up on Monday - it is amazing how sometimes a *missing* delivered package gets delivered the next day.

[rcbusmc24]

-Pistol, shop in Onslow (until I know more, I'm keeping the specifics out of the public conversation), individual sender. Thanks for the feedback.

Well....We are a shop in Onslow county, not a pawn shop tho. But I did just make a phone call to make sure I wasn't missing a pistol... so not us ...Whew. Hopefully it shows up tomorrow.

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Well....We are a shop in Onslow county, not a pawn shop tho. But I did just make a phone call to make sure I wasn't missing a pistol... so not us ...Whew. Hopefully it shows up tomorrow.

Thanks - let me know what shop you're at. I like to spend money supporting local business in the area, especially if you're a positive actor here on PF.

[RJ]

…especially if you're a positive actor here on PF.

He is. And I need to stop in there next time I’m in Jacksonville, in about a week

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UPDATE: as of Monday, the pistol is nowhere to be found. Seller has filed a claim with FedEx and I have to wait on his end; FedEx has closed my claim since he is the shipper and supersedes me. I'll be patient for now - this is isn't a headache either one of us was looking for. For what it's worth my impression is that my receiving FFL is not the problem.
All that said, buying a Staccato is turning out to be less fun than I thought...I could have had FedEx lose 3 G17s for the price of 1 Staccato P.

[BN]

I just had a pistol come back from repair with FedEx. The driver asked my birth date, initial of first name and last name. Then the driver signed my name on the tablet not me.

[HeavyDuty]

UPDATE: as of Monday, the pistol is nowhere to be found. Seller has filed a claim with FedEx and I have to wait on his end; FedEx has closed my claim since he is the shipper and supersedes me. I'll be patient for now - this is isn't a headache either one of us was looking for. For what it's worth my impression is that my receiving FFL is not the problem.
All that said, buying a Staccato is turning out to be less fun than I thought...I could have had FedEx lose 3 G17s for the price of 1 Staccato P.

Oh, that sucks hard. I’m sure it will be resolved.

[Totem Polar]

Man. On the one hand, shit happens. On the other, this is pretty darn irresponsible on someone’s part. Following.

[ccmdfd]

Hope this gets resolved quickly and to your satisfaction.

I've noticed a lot of times lately that when ups and or FedEx are delivering to the house they will often take a picture of the package at the delivery area and email it or text it to me. I don't know if that's something specific that the sender is asking them to do or if that's just a new thing or something they're experimenting with.

Don't know if that would be feasible at all for all the different deliveries all day long everywhere. But perhaps with FFL transfers or other more important deliveries.

[whomever]

I've noticed a lot of times lately that when ups and or FedEx are delivering to the house they will often take a picture of the package at the delivery area and email it or text it to me. I don't know if that's something specific that the sender is asking them to do or if that's just a new thing or something they're experimenting with.


I think amazon pioneered it, and lately Fedex has been doing the same. I presume the idea is that they can say 'yes we did deliver it'.

I'm not sure it proves much; if the pictured porch wasn't yours that would be evidence they didn't deliver, but it doesn't offer any defense for a dishonest driver, who could put it on your porch, take the pic, then pick up the package. I suppose a video doorbell or similar would prevent that.

Today Fedex put a package in the US Mail mailbox (OK by me, but a no-no), and sent us a picture of the outside of the mailbox :-)

[Lex Luthier]

I think amazon pioneered it, and lately Fedex has been doing the same. I presume the idea is that they can say 'yes we did deliver it'.

I'm not sure it proves much; if the pictured porch wasn't yours that would be evidence they didn't deliver, but it doesn't offer any defense for a dishonest driver, who could put it on your porch, take the pic, then pick up the package. I suppose a video doorbell or similar would prevent that.

Today Fedex put a package in the US Mail mailbox (OK by me, but a no-no), and sent us a picture of the outside of the mailbox :-)

I’ve done seasonal work for big Brown; putting something in a US mailbox will get you fired ASAP. The postal carriers pay attention too and will turn you in to the inspectors, who *will* follow up.

[Borderland]

UPS and FedEx continues to evolve in the ways the employees steal your stuff.

If they get fired they just sue the company for unfair termination, take the settlement and move on to their next unsuspecting employer.

It's almost a career of sorts these days. An annual employee turnover rate of 70% can't be good.

[whomever]

I’ve done seasonal work for big Brown; putting something in a US mailbox will get you fired ASAP. The postal carriers pay attention too and will turn you in to the inspectors, who *will* follow up.


I've heard that. Not a risk here, it's a big locking mailbox so once it's in the USPS can't tell.

(That law has always kinda bugged me ... I paid for the mailbox, USPS shouldn't get a say in who I let use it. Harummpf!)

[MGW]

I have a dumb question. Why couldn’t this be a a police report for a stolen firearm?

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I have a dumb question. Why couldn’t this be a a police report for a stolen firearm?

It could...but the seller has all the info and the carrier was contracted to transfer the firearm for him from another state. My FFL never took receipt of the firearm and it was never transferred to me. Additionally, I don't have anything to really indicate that it was stolen, other than a suspicion...it's a 'he said, she said' grey zone issue right know. I don't even have real evidence there was a 'body' outside of the FFL chain. So contacting the County Sheriffs department really doesn't do much for me or them. They'll take a report, but there is little reason to follow up for them and use time and resources on this potential case.
It's really up to the seller...he is the one who has to file a claim with FedEx and a missing gun report with the ATF, since the gun hadn't been received by my FFL and transferred to me. From my angle, without clear indicators of something criminal, my recourse for redress is through the seller and GunBroker. It sucks for me since, like I said in the thread title, buying on GB is good until it isn't. Until I get reimbursed, I'm in the hole since I paid for the purchase. All that said, if I start to get the 'bad feelings', my first shout will be to the ATF since the issue concerns a registered firearm and the investigatory chain is multi state.
I'm not LE, but I have done investigations in other venues and I think I am on point from a practical perspective. We've got LE and FFL experts in here who can chime in if I am being naive or worse.

[MGW]

It could...but the seller has all the info and the carrier was contracted to transfer the firearm for him from another state. My FFL never took receipt of the firearm and it was never transferred to me. Additionally, I don't have anything to really indicate that it was stolen, other than a suspicion...it's a 'he said, she said' grey zone issue right know. I don't even have real evidence there was a 'body' outside of the FFL chain. So contacting the County Sheriffs department really doesn't do much for me or them. They'll take a report, but there is little reason to follow up for them and use time and resources on this potential case.
It's really up to the seller...he is the one who has to file a claim with FedEx and a missing gun report with the ATF, since the gun hadn't been received by my FFL and transferred to me. From my angle, without clear indicators of something criminal, my recourse for redress is through the seller and GunBroker. It sucks for me since, like I said in the thread title, buying on GB is good until it isn't. Until I get reimbursed, I'm in the hole since I paid for the purchase. All that said, if I start to get the 'bad feelings', my first shout will be to the ATF since the issue concerns a registered firearm and the investigatory chain is multi state.
I'm not LE, but I have done investigations in other venues and I think I am on point from a practical perspective. We've got LE and FFL experts in here who can chime in if I am being naive or worse.

Makes sense to me.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Told this before. Coming back from the NTI in Pennsylvania, the gun case never made it to San Antonio. Told the baggage agent at the airport I wanted to file a police report. Two days later they came up with the case and several guns all in them. Told me that my flight was overweight so they decided to put the dangerous cargo (what?) on another plane (so that one would blow up due to unloaded guns?).

Did the OP pay with a credit card? They should cover such.

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Update: So, the seller has filed a claim with FedEx and also filed a missing/stolen firearm report with ATF. That is good since it will make the serial number radioactive and supersedes filing with local LE as previously discussed. My FFL says he has the footage of the alleged delivery time; it apparently doesn't show any delivery and contradicts the driver's account. Here is the pi**er: my FFL states no one, FedEx or LE, has contacted him. I know the inquiry/investigation wheels turn slowly, but that seems odd. In any case, I am taking all parties at face value and keeping an eye on what I can verify. The seller states FedEx says 10-15 days to process his claim and reimburse him.

To answer Glenn's comment, no, I didn't pay by credit card. Seller had a decent profile, I knew the risk, and paid as the seller preferred. If I was stretched for funds and couldn't tolerate the deal going sour, I would not have done so. I've run across verified seller's who prefer payment by check or MO in the past with no problem - everybody's favorite Galil smith in TN doesn't take American Express (or any credit card). For what it's worth, I think the seller is unhappily smoking a cat turd on this affair as much as I am.
On the bright side, had an excellent training session yesterday with Gen5G17 and Shadow 2, with no 2019 Staccato P to get in the way.

[Basher]

I have nothing to add here with regards to FedEx, but several years ago I had a very nice CZ Satin Luxe rifle go missing via USPS. It never showed delivery, but it just stopped moving in the system after hitting the destination post office. No updates, no status change, nothing. The FFL confirmed they hadn't received anything, so I called USPS and poked around. They claimed they couldn't find anything, so I escalated things to their regional postal inspector/investigator and had a nice phone chat with them, letting them know that it was a rifle and that I'd be contacting the ATF at the end of the week to report a lost/stolen firearm if it wasn't located somehow.

Magically, it arrived at my FFL the next day. Sometimes people just need a fire lit under their ass to get their act together. Hopefully a similar turnout happens for you and everyone can end the story on a happy note!

[Hambo]

If you don't know how Fedex operates routes, read this: https://fitsmallbusiness.com/fedex-routes-for-sale/
Quality of employees varies greatly. It's easier to scribble a signature on the electronic pad than to get a signature.

For the OP, your seller should be sending you money now, not waiting for his shipping problem to get resolved.