Proper way to attain grip

[Cornerpocket]

Whenever I have read about proper draw technique there is a great deal of discussion about actually drawing the gun (as in raising it from the holster), rotation, punch out, etc. There is very little regarding the route the hand should take to to get to the grip prior to the actual draw. Basically, my question is what is the proper way to bring the hand to the grip with OWB or IWB holsters (as opposed to something riding lower on the thigh)? It seems there are three possibilities, although they are a little hard to describe:

1) Raise the hand so that it is across from or "even" with the grip and then move it laterally (parallel to the ground) to the grip;

2) With the hand below the holster pull it up along the length of the holster until you come to the grip; or

3) Bring the hand above the grip, then push it down onto the backstrap.

In my limited experience, #3 seems to work better as once you come down to the backstrap it provides a natural stop. Particularly with #1, if you are wrong on the timing you can actually "miss" the grip. In any event, I have never read anything regarding the recommended or "correct" route for the hand to take to get to the grip.

Your suggestions and insights would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[SamuelBLong]

I will qualify this explanation by saying that regardless of what you may pick up from me, you need to have a qualified instructor watch you carefully to ensure that you arent making any mistakes. Now... here goes my best explanation.

Getting the hands to the gun



Appendix



Both hands drop to let the weak hand establish a solid grip on the cover garment. Lifting upward as high as possible, the weak side hand drives to the high sternum. The strong hand moves just above the grip, into position to draw the gun.

If for some reason youre using an open front garment, the draw becomes more like the 3 oclock draw, just less movement.


3 or 4 o'clock



This depends on type of garment worn to conceal. Closed garments both hands move to the gun position to lift the garment high above the pistol to clear the path for the draw. Open front garments the strong side hand drives inside the jacket, using the little finger to get inside the clothing. There is no flapping the jacket open...that is wasted time and often will flop back onto the gun, fouling the grip and draw. From here on out its the same.

The weak hand anchors itself flat to the sternum. The strong hand moves downward to the gun.




Establishing the grip


In either appendix or the 3 o'clock / 4 o'clock position, the hand needs to drive downward onto the gun. In appendix its a little trickier to do with a closed front garment like a polo as initially both hands are moving upwards. You dont ever want to scoop the gun out with the fingertips and try and establish your grip on the fly. Take your time initially and learn / ingrain the movements.

The thumb slides around the back of the grip to the inside position, ensuring that the web of the hand is in proper position driven high as possible into the backstrap leaving no gap and that the hand is seated in position. The tips of the fingers roll around the frontstrap keeping light pressure on the frame to establish the grip and ensure no snag of inner garments.

Once the grip is established the gun comes up vertically into the #2 position (or #3 if youre running appendix), the hands meet, using the index finger of the support hand to roll against the trigger guard and middle finger of the strong hand. From there the support side thumb extends and anchors to the gun, and the gun and drives out linearly to the target.

[167]

Someone else's thoughts (http://www.shooting-performance.com/Shooting-Performance/Technique/Entries/2011/5/27_The_Draw_Process.html) on the draw.

[MDS]

The replies so far have been so clear that even though I'm a shooting nobody i thought I'd add my two shekels just muddy the waters a bit. Specifically around driving the thumb behind the gun (between the gun and the body) while it's still in the holster. I definitely prefer to drive the hand down, but i flag my thumb, hooking over the rear sight, while the fingers go around the grip in the usual way. I squeeze the thumb to ensure as high a grip as possible, then pull the gun out. As soon as out clears the holster, the thumb slides around and completes the grip. The rest of the draw is as usual.

I find this is faster and less fumble prone, for me.

I'll second Samuel's advice to explore this with a good trainer/coach - in fact I'd recommend doing it with several, since high-level shooters can disagree on details like this. Try different tweaks and see what works for you, don't be afraid to evolve over time.

Great question!

[JAD]

Something I've been working on is SHO presentations. I usually wear closed front garments and my holster is at 3:45, so my draw currently consists of dragging a flagged thumb up to lift the garment and then straight down to find the gun. It's weird and difficult and I'd like to have an instructor watch and correct it sometime, but I *really* want presenting the gun one handed to be my natural default.

[YammyMonkey]

With a one handed draw from under a closed front garment I like to grab in front of the gun and drag the fabric up and then across my body, pinning it somewhat with the strong side forearm, then driving the hand straight down to the grip. I've found that the dragging across tends to get more fabric out of the way than the traditional grab & pull straight up method.

For a little clarity, if carrying AIWB I'll grab the bottom of my shirt on my support side and drag it up to the 2, then release the garment & drive my hand to the grip. This provides a much more foul- resistant draw.

[MDS]

With a one handed draw from under a closed front garment I like to grab in front of the gun and drag the fabric up and then across my body, pinning it somewhat with the strong side forearm, then driving the hand straight down to the grip. I've found that the dragging across tends to get more fabric out of the way than the traditional grab & pull straight up method.

For a little clarity, if carrying AIWB I'll grab the bottom of my shirt on my support side and drag it up to the 2, then release the garment & drive my hand to the grip. This provides a much more foul- resistant draw.

Me, too. Vinh taught this method to tlg and the rest of us at Rogers a few months ago. Also, for sho draws, I take a little extra time to wrap my thumb around the gun before taking it out of the holster.

[jon volk]

My biggest hang up with obtaining grip is using a holster that wedges the butt against my body. It's great for concealment but I find wearing no undergarment makes it stick to me and I can't always get a deep enough grab. Conversely, if I wear an undergarment, it will often get material pinched between my thumb and grip.

Anyone have advice on this part or is it just a fact of life.

[Cookie Monster]

This thread had me thinking hard during my dry practice last night. I'm no SME but here are my thoughts.

-OWB or a IWB that doesn't tuck in the gun (my Ravens), I push the hand straight down on the gun and obtain a good grip, with the thumb wrapped around the frame.

-Good IWB concealment holsters where it is difficult to shove the thumb between your gun and your body (pretty much all I run now), I keep the thumb flagged and obtain the "master grip" (unsure if that is the right term) on count one of the draw stroke. I will flag the thumb on the way back at count 2 when reholstering. Also depending on the cover garment I am actually sweeping the gun out of the holster from below.

I'll be thinking and dry practicing the next couple of days with great attention to this. I believe flagging the thumb and getting the grip on count one is sub-optimal but necessary when using a good concealment holster. I want to be using a holster that is "go into the NYC Police Department on gun confiscation day and ask for directions" concealment.

Thanks for making me think and keep advancing,
Cookie Monster

[UNM1136]

I do the Ron Avery "pop".

To train for this I place my middle and ring fingers on the front strap of the pistol, thumb to retention device. I drop my hand straight down and squeeze, doing my best to make the motion short, and sharp. I am trying to "pop" the gun out of the holster. Once I have that I move to getting to the index position from various hand positions, always going to the middle and ring fingers on the front strap and trying to pop the gun out of the holster.

pat

[0ddl0t]

Bumping this old thread for more advice...



-Good IWB concealment holsters where it is difficult to shove the thumb between your gun and your body (pretty much all I run now), I keep the thumb flagged and obtain the "master grip" (unsure if that is the right term) on count one of the draw stroke. I will flag the thumb on the way back at count 2 when reholstering.

^This is my current technique, but because the butt tucks so well I'm also having a problem getting my fingers all the way wrapped around the grip - at least until after I've already started lifting the pistol up & out of the holster. Is this just a compromise you have to make with a well-concealed pistol or are you all able to get the tips of your fingers between your body and the grip before drawing?

[Alpha Sierra]

I don't buy IWB holsters that set the pistol really low in relation to my belt.

Getting a good grip quickly > ultra concealment

[UNM1136]

Try this, if it works for you use it for a few weeks and see if it helps...

Take your dominant hand, at your preferred start position. Straighten your trigger finger and flag your thumb. Viewed from above your thumb and forefinger are at an angle and not parallel. (You are not running a finger gun here.) Your middle and ring finger curl inward, but the pads of your fingers are no greater than 90* from your index finger. Pinky does what is comfortable, but stays out of the way, and is just along for the ride.

This is an over complicated way of getting you to the next step, but some have needed it, others found the next step enough to have the light bulb come on.

With trigger finger straight, thumb flagged, take your middle and ring finger pads and put them on the front strap of the pistol, high up and the middle finger just touching the the juncture of the grip and trigger guard. (where the fingers actually go). This is your index point, and once you determine if this makes sense and is something you want to devote reps and time to, you will start out taking the middle and ring finger pads and just indexing the gun on the front strap. What you are trying to teach yourself is to stop your motion for a split second so you can change its direction.

Now move your middle and ring finger pads across the remainder of the front strap and keeping them in contact with the gun slide them around the grips/stocks as you crush, smear, or push the meat of your hand onto the backstrap as high on the tang as possible. Pinky is along for the ride, trigger finger straight, thumb flagged.

You are now in the classic #1 position, so if your holster has a retention device it gets opened as the hand moves down, using the correct digit to do so. The #1 should be strong and stable. Lower three fingers flex to grip the gun strongly before beginning to move upward and starting to remove the gun from the holster.

You are not "grabbing" the gun, you are teaching your fingers to follow the contours to get where they need to be. I used Home Depot 3M stair traction tape on my Sig to enhance grip and ran rubbery CT grips on my 1911, both of which were regularly carried IWB and AIWB in a Blade-Tec kydex IWB and SME, respectively, on my time, and mostly uniformed duty holsters on the guvmint's time. So sticky/grippy/friction enhanced grips aren't really an issue. You want light contact. Carrying AIWB you can tilt your pelvis a little and/or suck your gut in for a bit of clearence.

I really needed this "two finger touch technique" with the 1911 in the SME. The holster was SO stable, SO secure, SO concealable, SO comfortable, and SO expensive I wanted to make less tha ideal grip clearance work. I did. Now that John Ralston has "finger relief" my next SME may be just perfect.

A one hand re-holster with a good holster, is simply drawing in reverse, with an allowance for the thumb riding the Gadget, riding the hammer, or slipping between the hammer face and rear of the slide (without pulling the hammer hooks from the sear), depending on your reality.

As a disclaimer, I do not yet compete in any capacity, so a two second draw to two rounds is my benchmark. I am not a speed demon. I have used this with cops who have trouble getting a good grip before the draw. Cops usually start out in duty holsters then move to concealment. I have been the head of firearms instruction for a 40 person department for almost a decade. I no longer use the draw I posted about upthread, but that draw is where I learned this.

Other than that, AS is right. A solid pre-draw ("final firing") grip is more important than concealment in a holster most of the time. Ride height is a factor here, and a topic for another day.

pat