Enos -- "why big crisp dots are better"

[GJM]

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/311333-why-big-crips-dots-are-better/

[Archer1440]

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/311333-why-big-crips-dots-are-better/

It actually reads "Why Big Crips Dots are Better", clearly showing the importance of red dots to gang culture.










....will show myself out, now.

[Hambo]

It actually reads "Why Big Crips Dots are Better", clearly showing the importance of red dots to gang culture.




....will show myself out, now.

Crips dots are blue, not red.

[Archer1440]

Crips dots are blue, not red.

Yeah, that occurred to me after I wrote that, but I figured I had dug myself a deep enough hole as it was.

[LittleLebowski]

Sounds like someone is selling something.

[YVK]

He is selling a junk dot that has eats batteries like nothing else I've seen. Also with fresh batteries it is near impossible to use indoors, and totally promotes dot focus. Not to say that "top shooters use big dots" is a stretch. Sailer, Nils, Ben, all prefer small dots while JJ or Max use medium sized dots.

[Clusterfrack]

He is selling a junk dot that has eats batteries like nothing else I've seen. Also with fresh batteries it is near impossible to use indoors, and totally promotes dot focus. Not to say that "top shooters use big dots" is a stretch. Sailer, Nils, Ben, all prefer small dots while JJ or Max use medium sized dots.

Great points. I used to think dot size and crispness were a big deal. Now, I really don't care. The proper brightness is much more important.

[Noah]

Great points. I used to think dot size and crispness were a big deal. Now, I really don't care. The proper brightness is much more important.

I think in most situations, relative brightness has a bigger effect on apparent dot size and the effect therein than the MOA number on the box.

[Clusterfrack]

I think in most situations, relative brightness has a bigger effect on apparent dot size and the effect therein than the MOA number on the box.

I agree--especially since most of the shooting we do in USPSA CO is dot-in-motion, not a stable dot.

[Hambo]

Yeah, that occurred to me after I wrote that, but I figured I had dug myself a deep enough hole as it was.

Always go for broke. ;) As far as dots and gang culture, a "lens" is a thing these days, along with beams and stendos.

[Trigger]

Honest question.

If we are looking through the dot to focus on the target, a la Stoeger, isn’t a large crisp dot counter productive? Since it encourages you to focus on the dot and not the target beyond?

[Clusterfrack]

Honest question.

If we are looking through the dot to focus on the target, a la Stoeger, isn’t a large crisp dot counter productive? Since it encourages you to focus on the dot and not the target beyond?

I’m not sure about ’encourage’ but maybe it doesn’t matter very much if you are target focused?

[Archer1440]

Clearly, there is an evolving point of view on this subject, roughly summarized as: those who prefer big, bright dots, small precision dots, green vs red, simple vs complex (dots, dots with circles, horseshoes, chevrons, dots with horseshoes, and the constellation Orion), focus on the target, "confirmation" focus on the dot and secondary focus on the target, "predictive" shooting based on "the streak", and an entire thesaurus of terms, techniques and situations that provide rich fodder for instructors and students alike.

Normally, right about here in a post, I would write something like "Now, we can all agree that..." but I know better than to suggest any conclusion about this, having witnessed the landscape on the subject of dots on pistols for the past ~12 years now, and having been an active participant for eight, only to recently discover extremely disturbing things like the fact that I am currently pretty much outshooting my 9mm CO striker gun with my fiber-optic equipped .45 1911 lately, which has me reconsidering my entire place in the universe, and perhaps taking up golf.

Or revolvers.

[Clusterfrack]

...complex (dots, dots with circles, horseshoes, chevrons, dots with horseshoes, and the constellation Orion

I want a middle finger reticle so I can flip off the target as I shoot it.

[Archer1440]

I want a middle finger reticle so I can flip off the target as I shoot it.

Just wait a few days, some Chicom maker will undoubtedly have one. With a Punisher skull reticle only a button push away.

But, the important question is, green, or red???

[YVK]

Honest question.

If we are looking through the dot to focus on the target, a la Stoeger, isn’t a large crisp dot counter productive? Since it encourages you to focus on the dot and not the target beyond?

Depends on the lightning conditions, eyesight and target size. I haven't tried green dots but even very bright red dots are harder for me to see, streaking or not, early on big targets. I've tried that dude's 8 MOA dot and 507Comp's 8 MOA reticle with a central dot and for certain arrays I find them preferrable over smaller dots. For me 5-6 MOA with a decent range of intensity adjustment is the thing.

[Trigger]

One of my early shooting coaches for skeet, trap and sporting clays, told me I should be looking HARD at the targets. So hard, I could see the ridges on the clay bird in flight. The little dimples on the top of the dome. I worked towards that goal.

This had stuck with me, and for most of my shooting disciplines, I bring a target-focused perspective. Thus the Ben Stoeger target-focus discussion resonates with me. And when we talk about dots, I honestly do not see a lot, other than the dot appears near the target spot I’m focused on. If the dot is dim or small, I have more difficulty. But if the dot is sufficient, I see it less, and can focus/concentrate on the target. Works for me.

I apply the same strategy to shotgun ribs/beads, Pistol dots, carbine dots, and PRS bolt gun reticles. Works for me. YMMV.

[Elwin]

One of my early shooting coaches for skeet, trap and sporting clays, told me I should be looking HARD at the targets. So hard, I could see the ridges on the clay bird in flight. The little dimples on the top of the dome. I worked towards that goal.

This had stuck with me, and for most of my shooting disciplines, I bring a target-focused perspective. Thus the Ben Stoeger target-focus discussion resonates with me. And when we talk about dots, I honestly do not see a lot, other than the dot appears near the target spot I’m focused on. If the dot is dim or small, I have more difficulty. But if the dot is sufficient, I see it less, and can focus/concentrate on the target. Works for me.

I apply the same strategy to shotgun ribs/beads, Pistol dots, carbine dots, and PRS bolt gun reticles. Works for me. YMMV.

Similar experience here. I am liking dots a whole lot so far because I naturally target focus after spending my formative shooting years (ages 11 to 23 or so) primarily shooting clays and birds and pistol only to a lesser extent. The dot lets me work with that inclination instead of against it, like when trying to shoot groups at 25 with fuzzy irons because that’s what my brain wants to do (but in my case apparently can’t do well)…

As a result I don’t struggle too much with my astigmatism or bright dot bloom. So far I’m in the small dot on near highest brightness setting in all lighting conditions camp. We’ll see what the future brings but this works for my eyes so far.

[JRV]

Big dots and busy reticles don’t make sense on handguns. It’s like a fiber optic bead on a shotgun… I don’t exactly want more crap tempting my eye away from the target.

Emitter quality and battery tech are great now (FTP aside, woof)—a clean and bright two-to-four MOA dot gives up zero precision at 50 yards but still let you shoot on color confirmation at speed.

[mrozowjj]

The older I get the more I realize a lot of this depends on personal preference and how everyone's individual eyes work; there isn't one dot size that works for everyone.

For me with small dots when I turn the brightness up to the point where it blooms it's a massive star that can sometimes fill the window or be a scattered mess and I might as well be point shooting. So at least for me it's much less distracting and much faster to just use a 6 MOA dot at a lower brightness setting. But that's just the way my eyes work. I'd probably like a 8 or 10 MOA if a company I trusted made one but for now I stick with 6 MOA.

That said I kind of wish it didn't work like that for me because it's much easier to find smaller dots. If my eyes could work with a 2-3MOA dot the world would be my oyster for dot options.

[Kirk]

He is selling a junk dot that has eats batteries like nothing else I've seen. Also with fresh batteries it is near impossible to use indoors, and totally promotes dot focus. Not to say that "top shooters use big dots" is a stretch. Sailer, Nils, Ben, all prefer small dots while JJ or Max use medium sized dots.

This is so true. The couple of people I know who have tried that junk optic have gone back to other dots. The battery life is LOL worthy and the refresh rate was *really* bad on their dots. I can’t believe they are able to sell those things for like $400.