Auto Break In Query

[Danko]

This question has likely been posted hundreds of times over the years: When, how does one determine when an auto pistol is broken in? I read shooters and manufactures recommending firing 2-500 rounds or more without any problems before considering a gun broken in. Last evening I was surfing through the posts on the 1911 Forum where the ubiquitous break-in question popped up again. Many posters replied with a given round count. One poster said when he receives a new gun, he strips, cleans and lubes it, then racks the slide a few hundred times, cleans and lubes it, and repeats the process a few times. I have only three years of pistol experience and this guy's pre-break-in process seems to be a sound, practical way of preconditioning the slide and frame rails. I will soon own my first 1911 .45 and plan to use this guys procedure before taking it to the range to fire its first 100 rounds.

I'm interested to hear from others who use this or other similar procedure to precondition a gun! Perhaps some of you consider this a waste of time and needless arm wear?

[JTQ]

One poster said when he receives a new gun, he strips, cleans and lubes it, then racks the slide a few hundred times, cleans and lubes it, and repeats the process a few times.

I will soon own my first 1911 .45 and plan to use this guys procedure before taking it to the range to fire its first 100 rounds.

It's more fun shooting the gun than racking the slide a few hundred times. I may rack the slide a few times to see how it feels, but I've never sat in front of the TV and racked the slide a few hundred times.

"Break-in" means different things to different people. For some it's to prove the gun is reliable. For others it is more of a shooter break-in, where you are familiarizing yourself with the gun, which if you've never shot a 1911 before, and you're trying to figure out what to do with that thumb and grip safety, it's probably pretty important. For a 1911 like a Les Baer, it is more to ensure the gun is working the same at 50,000 rounds as it is at round 10.

For me, I'll lube the gun up and shoot it. Cleaning is somewhat over rated. Clean is better than dirty, but you can go a long time between cleaning, but a metal framed gun needs lube more than a polymer framed gun with little metal tabs for frame rails. Many folks new to a 1911 will experience problems because they under-lube their gun.

[Trooper224]

The pistol you intend to purchase isn't a tightly fitted custom affair. Just lube it up a go shoot it.

Honestly, i think this titanic level of research you're doing, while commendable, is starting to become counterproductive. The advice you've mentioned to just stupid and unnecessary. The 1911 forum will have you thinking you're launching a rocketship to Mars, that's made of hand-blown glass.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself. 😀

Just buy the gun and go shooting.

[Danko]

In my case I've never fired a 1911 .45 or any other caliber so I'll definitely need some time to familiarize myself with its grip and controls.

In terms of cleaning, I assume the guy I referred to means wiping down the frame and slide rails after each racking session to remove any small and micro steel particles that may have been generated by repeatedly racking the slide.

[JTQ]

In my case I've never fired a 1911 .45 or any other caliber so I'll definitely need some time to familiarize myself with its grip and controls.


I find these video's helpful to new 1911 users

Doug Koenig "How to Grip a Handgun". Note where he puts his right hand thumb at about the :50 mark


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDzC6djUQxM

The following video is a little over the top, but he's making a point here - most (though not all) 1911 users will avoid Condition 2 and use Condition 1, though there is a place for Condition 3.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2-1IZk1A28

Folks all over the internet will tell you you'll get killed on the streets if you use a gun with a manual safety as you'll forget to switch it off when you need it off or on when you need it on. If you have your thumb on the thumb safety as part of the way you grip the gun, and you get that master grip when you grab the holstered gun, forgetting the thumb safety becomes less of an issue.

Here is the late Ed Head showing the draw stroke. Note when he gets on the thumb safety beginning at about the :40 mark.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGGxwJrrABY

Because almost nobody can reach the mag release or slide stop with their right hand thumb while the gun is in a shooting grip, new folks are always looking for scooped grip panels, giant mag releases, and extended slide stops, there is this video from Ben Stoeger on handgun fit. No 1911 in this video, but at about the 2:10 mark he'll talk about the mag release and slide stop. His recommendation will also apply to the 1911.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qI2Oapg1WE

[BillSWPA]

Pistols that require a break in period are the exception rather than the rule. There is no reason a properly designed, properly lubricated pistol should not work well right out of the box.

[mmc45414]

In terms of cleaning, I assume the guy I referred to means wiping down the frame and slide rails after each racking session to remove any small and micro steel particles that may have been generated by repeatedly racking the slide.
Racking the slide is not creating any cutting type action and will not produce any particulate. When shooting it the oil it needs will mix with the soot from the cartridge and create dirty gunk, but the pistol will keep ticking. And they do not typically turn into a pumpkin, you will feel things start to get sluggish before they crap out.
As has been mentioned, just oil it up and get ready to rock, and be prepared to start smiling! :cool:

[feudist]

In my case I've never fired a 1911 .45 or any other caliber so I'll definitely need some time to familiarize myself with its grip and controls.

In terms of cleaning, I assume the guy I referred to means wiping down the frame and slide rails after each racking session to remove any small and micro steel particles that may have been generated by repeatedly racking the slide.

There would likely be orders of magnitude more benefit to spending the time racking the slide by doing exactly that much structured dry fire. Once comfortable, then proceed to reliability test the gun.
This will include and surpass any recommended break in period I've ever read by a manufacturer.
Depending on your comfort level, degree of faith in a given manufacturer, belief in your centrality to the existence of the universe, or cynicism about marketing hype, fanboyism,, Monday guns, Friday guns and tendency to wear your seatbelt...I recommend shooting a couple of hundred ball rounds through any gun to intend to carry and then a couple hundred more in the specific load I've chosen as a duty round. This should get the gun past its QC and "Infant mortality" phase and into its "Service life reliability" phase.

I buy a gun to shoot and carry. I'm buying a capability with a set of attributes. If it falters, I hurl it from a cliff like a Spartan newborn with six toes. I intend to shoot it to death, and then replace it.

[Danko]

Trooper224, I'm glad to hear you chime in, and you even recall the make and model gun I'm going to buy. I respect your advise, knowing you have a lot of Springfield 1911 experience. You're likely entirely correct. When I finally get the gun home I will clean and lube it, rack the slide a dozen or so times to see how it fits and feels, then hit the range for a 100 round session! I hope to buy the gun later this week or the following week. My excitement is growing!

[mmc45414]

I recommend shooting a couple of hundred ball rounds through any gun to intend to carry and then a couple hundred more in the specific load I've chosen as a duty round. This should get the gun past its QC and "Infant mortality" phase and into its "Service life reliability" phase.
And personally I am not .MIL or .LE, I will just start shooting a new gun for my typical practice, and after a few trips I will consider it good to go, go to the grocery store that is. If I were a guy who is assigned to a task force to go serve high risk warrants with the Marshalls Service I would have a stricter criteria.

[Danko]

Guys I have no plans to carry a full size 1911 .45. It's too damn big and heavy. The gun will only be used for the joy of shooting paper targets.

[mmc45414]

Guys I have no current plans to carry a full size 1911 .45.

FIFY.... :cool:
Seriously, they ride so nicely you might be surprised.

[JohnO]

If it is made properly it should run right out of the box.

Lube it and shoot it!

[feudist]

And personally I am not .MIL or .LE, I will just start shooting a new gun for my typical practice, and after a few trips I will consider it good to go, go to the grocery store that is. If I were a guy who is assigned to a task force to go serve high risk warrants with the Marshalls Service I would have a stricter criteria.

Let me offer a different assessment of risk.
If you have to pull a pistol, the need will be in answer to an immediate threat of crippling or death to you or another innocent person. You will be alone, without force of numbers, armor, long guns or the quelling effect that the uniform still has on resistance. CCW gunfights tend to be very short, very high intensity affairs that are decided in the first burst of fire and are generally over too quickly for remedial action.
I would assert that for you, as a CCW, the need for multiple rapid shots is predictably more critical than a cop's. Unless he is solo...like you. Even then he has armor, open carry and should have the heightened awareness of actually looking for trouble.

[JohnO]

Let me offer a different assessment of risk.
If you have to pull a pistol, the need will be in answer to an immediate threat of crippling or death to you or another innocent person. You will be alone, without force of numbers, armor, long guns or the quelling effect that the uniform still has on resistance. CCW gunfights tend to be very short, very high intensity affairs that are decided in the first burst of fire and are generally over too quickly for remedial action.
I would assert that for you, as a CCW, the need for multiple rapid shots is predictably more critical than a cop's. Unless he is solo...like you. Even then he has armor, open carry and should have the heightened awareness of actually looking for trouble.

Nothing wrong with that assessment.

Those comments above while related speak to a different issue, trust and reliability. The owner must have confidence that their weapon system is up to the task. Any pistol that will be used for cary needs to be vetted with the ammo and magazines it will use. The protocols for developing that trust vary widely depending upon who you ask.

[mmc45414]

CCW gunfights tend to be very short, very high intensity affairs that are decided in the first burst of fire and are generally over too quickly for remedial action.
Yes, I agree (I think we actually do), my point it that even though I carry a pistol almost every single time I leave the house, the mathematical reality of me actually getting into a fight I was not able to avoid (since I do not need to go looking for bad people) and a particular pistol of a brand known to be reliable that I have tested for several hundred rounds decides that is the time to malfunction, and I get killed because I didn't test it a few thousand more times is just a risk I am willing to take. As much as I love 1911s, I would expect to take longer to develop a level of trust, but when I buy something like one more M&P I will shoot it enough (I like your infant mortality analogy) to have it not give me a reason to not trust it, and then accept it as reliable.

I worry I might get killed in the streets, because it is becoming much more likely an unlicensed driver who is in the country illegally will run a red light at 40mph over the posted limit on my way to the grocery, but most all of the modern pistols continue to work as designed with boring regularity.

[Trooper224]

Trooper224, I'm glad to hear you chime in, and you even recall the make and model gun I'm going to buy. I respect your advise, knowing you have a lot of Springfield 1911 experience. You're likely entirely correct. When I finally get the gun home I will clean and lube it, rack the slide a dozen or so times to see how it fits and feels, then hit the range for a 100 round session! I hope to buy the gun later this week or the following week. My excitement is growing!

The only research you need to be doing is for some sexy grips for your new gat. :)

[Danko]

That's ironic, I was just looking at grip panels on the VZ site. While I've never handled a 1911, the width of them appears rather thin in photos. I'm wondering if I'll need thicker panels for a proper grip. The VZ site refers to panel thickness, but I have no idea of the thickness of A1 panels. Can you provide the figure?

[RJ]

That's ironic, I was just looking at grip panels on the VZ site. While I've never handled a 1911, the width of them appears rather thin in photos. I'm wondering if I'll need thicker panels for a proper grip. The VZ site refers to panel thickness, but I have no idea of the thickness of A1 panels. Can you provide the figure?

What size are your hands? S? M? L? XL?

[vcdgrips]

Typical Thickness for a grip panel is .250-.255.

That number is easily confirmable via a Google Search re "1911 grip panel thickness."

If you want to run a thinner grip, particularly, under .200, thin grip bushings and shorter grip panel screws are often in order.

VZ makes an excellent product and their commitment to the Widow Simonich is most honorable.

https://vzgrips.com/products/simonich-gunner-full-size-1911-grips.html

[RJ]

You may have gotten this advice already, but it's an idea to just get the gun home, inspect it after a field strip, then take it to the range and see how it shoots for you. 1911s are very configurable for hand size with two different grip thicknesses, and various trigger shoe sizes that can be tailored to the user.

I have M/L hands (7.25" from thumb base to tip of middle finger) and find that thin grips and a Short trigger suit me well, but it depends on your particular hand sizes, obviously.

Good luck!

[Danko]

My hands are somewhat large, I generally wear Xl gloves. Thing is I'm only 5' 10" and a hair. Knowing the standard grip panel thickness dimension will be very helpful in knowing what size I need if the panels that come on the gun prove to be too thin.

Thank you for providing the dimension!

[BN]

When I saw the thread title, my first thoughts were; don't leave valuables on the front seat where they are visible and keep your doors locked.

After reading the thread, I realized that Trooper224 gave you the best advice.

[CraigS]

I would not worry about different grips now. Shoot the gun a bunch and then maybe?? If you think you'd like to try thicker, get some tape and make it thicker first. Hockey stick tape is great for this. Take it to the range w/ you try 6 layers, add 2-3 more, ad 2-3 more. I was an auto tech when we started shooting so I was used to the grips on air impact wrenches and electric drills. For years and years I put thicker grips on my beretta 92s. I retired 12 yrs ago. I still use drills and impact wrenches but nowhere near as often. I am now using the thinnest grips I can find on my 92.

[Skinner Precision, LLC]

I would not worry about different grips now. Shoot the gun a bunch and then maybe?? If you think you'd like to try thicker, get some tape and make it thicker first. Hockey stick tape is great for this. Take it to the range w/ you try 6 layers, add 2-3 more, ad 2-3 more. I was an auto tech when we started shooting so I was used to the grips on air impact wrenches and electric drills. For years and years I put thicker grips on my beretta 92s. I retired 12 yrs ago. I still use drills and impact wrenches but nowhere near as often. I am now using the thinnest grips I can find on my 92.

Since the OP is talking about a 1911, wrapping the grip w/hocky tape is a bad idea because of the grip safety. While some "cool kids" rubber band or pin the grip safety to deactivate it, it isn't prudent in my opinion, especially with all the unknowns of a internet interactions.

Since the OP is new to 1911's and asking about dryfire / break in, I will offer the advice that dryfire is great but dropping the slide on a empty chamber using the slide stop is a not so good idea as it can cause sear bounce and can damage the engagement surfaces of the hammer and sear.

Like RJ indicated a 1911 is very modular with grips and triggers and I will add flat vs arched mainspring housings but instead of trying to swap parts (which can require fitting parts and always involves cost) its easier to try other people's setups after gaining some experience with your own pistol. If you attend a USPSA, Steel Challenge , or IDPA match you would probably find people who would let you try their setups and/ or mentor you.

My advice to the OP is buy a piece of skate tape / stair tape for the front strap if it is not checkered, buy as much ammo as you can, dryfire it (in a safe and prudent manner), shoot as much as you can (preferably with instruction, and shoot a match or ten in a venue of your liking before making any modifications

[CraigS]

Mr Skinner you make an excellent point. I know about grip safeties but not being a 1911 shooter, they slipped my mind. Thanks for straightening me out. Maybe just build up the panels themselves running the tape vertical. Anything to give the effect w/o being permanent and w/o spending $60+ on each thickness experiment.

[Stephanie B]

When I saw the thread title, my first thoughts were; don't leave valuables on the front seat where they are visible and keep your doors locked.


I was going to suggest using a Slim-Jim on the passenger's side door.

[JonInWA]

With a new pistol (be it BNIB or a resale) I always field strip, clean and lubricate-and the same with the magazines. I agree that for most pistols, the term "break in" is a misnomer and unnecessary per se, but I still strongly suggest putting 100-200 rounds through it, if only for YOUR familiarization with its characteristics and controls, and how you index with it, and for zeroing and any necessary sight corrections.

I also strongly advise running through a quantity of your carry cartridges through it (particularly if they're 147 gr 9mm or a unique or different bullet shape).

Best, Jon

[JTQ]

My hands are somewhat large, I generally wear Xl gloves. Thing is I'm only 5' 10" and a hair. Knowing the standard grip panel thickness dimension will be very helpful in knowing what size I need if the panels that come on the gun prove to be too thin.

Thank you for providing the dimension!
Chances are reasonably good your hands aren't bigger than the hands of forum member SW CQB 45

You can see him gripping a 1911 in this thread. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?36518-The-Art-and-Science-of-Keeping-Your-1911-Running/page251

He may have some grip panel advice.

[Danko]

Thank you all for your input, but I have a similar break in case to report. I was on the 1911 Forum site last night to absorb more information about the gun. I know much more than I did a month ago, but then I knew nothing other than who designed the gun and what one looks like. I have to increase my knowledge base much further before I reach any level of comfort. At the same time I realize many 1911 owners never seem content with what they know and continue studying the gun and literature for decades, and I totally understand and appreciate that.

Now to the topic of break in. I was gathering 1911 information on the 1911 Forum site last night and came across a guy who had a brief video on how his new 1911 .45 gun's rails and slide were interacting. The slide was off the gun and he showed how it was sticking/dragging near the front and back. When he held the gun vertically, the slide didn't fall off of its rails as he said it should. He then showed himself applying Fliz metal polishing compound to the rails and slide. He moved the slide fore an aft for ? length of time. When the video began again, he demonstrated the slide fall off its rails when the gun was inverted, so he was happy. Firing a dozen rounds or so probably would have accomplished the same thing, but I appreciated his attention to the details. He wasn't going to fire his gun until his gun rails and slide were as slick as glass to meet his expectations.

I know why I immediately became interested in the rail slide relationship: Three years ago I bought a 4.25" M&P 9mm, my first gun. (Love that gun), took it to the range the day I received it. I didn't finish firing one box because the slide didn't always return to battery. I whacked it with my palm to provide the needed help. It fired a few rounds fine, then suddenly the slide stuck around halfway. It did this about a dozen times. Being my first auto pistol I became a little concerned so I decided to return home to clean it and lube and see if I could see an obvious problem. I cleaned and lubed it and ran the slide a dozen times or so and it slid smooth as far as I could tell. I returned to the range the following day and the gun operated perfectly for a hundred or so rounds. I was relieved! When we're new to things, we generally tread with caution because we know we don't yet know anything! Oh-oh, now what!

[Joe in PNG]

There's often a lot of lore regarding what's needed to get stuff working, especially from enthusiasts. Much of it is actually unnecessary.

[feudist]

Thank you all for your input, but I have a similar break in case to report. I was on the 1911 Forum site last night to absorb more information about the gun. I know much more than I did a month ago, but then I knew nothing other than who designed the gun and what one looks like. I have to increase my knowledge base much further before I reach any level of comfort. At the same time I realize many 1911 owners never seem content with what they know and continue studying the gun and literature for decades, and I totally understand and appreciate that.

Now to the topic of break in. I was gathering 1911 information on the 1911 Forum site last night and came across a guy who had a brief video on how his new 1911 .45 gun's rails and slide were interacting. The slide was off the gun and he showed how it was sticking/dragging near the front and back. When he held the gun vertically, the slide didn't fall off of its rails as he said it should. He then showed himself applying Fliz metal polishing compound to the rails and slide. He moved the slide fore an aft for ? length of time. When the video began again, he demonstrated the slide fall off its rails when the gun was inverted, so he was happy. Firing a dozen rounds or so probably would have accomplished the same thing, but I appreciated his attention to the details. He wasn't going to fire his gun until his gun rails and slide were as slick as glass to meet his expectations.

I know why I immediately became interested in the rail slide relationship: Three years ago I bought a 4.25" M&P 9mm, my first gun. (Love that gun), took it to the range the day I received it. I didn't finish firing one box because the slide didn't always return to battery. I whacked it with my palm to provide the needed help. It fired a few rounds fine, then suddenly the slide stuck around halfway. It did this about a dozen times. Being my first auto pistol I became a little concerned so I decided to return home to clean it and lube and see if I could see an obvious problem. I cleaned and lubed it and ran the slide a dozen times or so and it slid smooth as far as I could tell. I returned to the range the following day and the gun operated perfectly for a hundred or so rounds. I was relieved! When we're new to things, we generally tread with caution because we know we don't yet know anything! Oh-oh, now what!

The 1911 is definitely the poster child for meticulous OCD anality fans.
Here's a 251 page thread on PF "The Art and Science of Keeping Your 1911 Running."

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?36518-The-Art-and-Science-of-Keeping-Your-1911-Running

[Danko]

In terms of how to grip a full size 1911 .45, I have no concern. My concern is simply that the gun's butt appears very slender/thin, so I'm not sure it will adequately fill my hand without adding some girth to the grips. I'll know for sure when I finally get the gun in my hands.

The Auto break reports were quite funny. When I initially read them, I thought the posters were mistakenly commenting on the wrong topic. After a few seconds I understood and laughed aloud. I'm all about fun, so the remarks are appreciated.

[rojocorsa]

I know why I immediately became interested in the rail slide relationship: Three years ago I bought a 4.25" M&P 9mm, my first gun. (Love that gun), took it to the range the day I received it. I didn't finish firing one box because the slide didn't always return to battery. I whacked it with my palm to provide the needed help. It fired a few rounds fine, then suddenly the slide stuck around halfway. It did this about a dozen times. Being my first auto pistol I became a little concerned so I decided to return home to clean it and lube and see if I could see an obvious problem. I cleaned and lubed it and ran the slide a dozen times or so and it slid smooth as far as I could tell. I returned to the range the following day and the gun operated perfectly for a hundred or so rounds. I was relieved! When we're new to things, we generally tread with caution because we know we don't yet know anything! Oh-oh, now what!

What generation of M&P was that?

Plastic guns are an entirely different animal with a different rail to slide relationship, generally speaking.

[Danko]

The gun is a 2.0 purchased in 2021. Grip is tremendous, as good as any. The gun is very easy and fun to shoot!

[SW CQB 45]

The only 1911 I ever bought that I would consider TIGHT was a 2002 model Les Baer Monolith HVYWEIGHT. If this piece had a break in period, I would never know as it had zero issues. I kept it well lubed and shot the hell out of it.

https://i.imgur.com/vS7BYFwh.jpg

I get made fun of a lot at work because of hand size and arm length. I recall Hilton Yam and his partner Tim Lau in 2012 making a comment about my hands in their Armorers Class. Something along the lines, hmmmm 1911 me break. I laughed with them.

https://i.imgur.com/fiuwi1Kh.jpg

This was my ACW Classic Carry with traditional grips. While my hands swallow the grip, I tried oversized grips one time and they felt odd to me. It placed my trigger finger different which in turn felt different as I pressed the trigger. took them off and stuck with traditional. While I can shoot with thin grips, I much prefer standard thickness.

https://i.imgur.com/JX8WzBih.jpg

The majority of production 1911s, depending on manufacture will not need to be lubed with Flitz and require a thousand slide manipulations to smooth things up. I agree that shooting it much more satisfying to smooth things up.

I say just lube your piece and shoot it.

[BillSWPA]

In terms of how to grip a full size 1911 .45, I have no concern. My concern is simply that the gun's butt appears very slender/thin, so I'm not sure it will adequately fill my hand without adding some girth to the grips. I'll know for sure when I finally get the gun in my hands.

The Auto break reports were quite funny. When I initially read them, I thought the posters were mistakenly commenting on the wrong topic. After a few seconds I understood and laughed aloud. I'm all about fun, so the remarks are appreciated.

I think you will find that a 1911 with standard grips will fit a wide variety of hands quite nicely.

That thinness is also an asset if you ever do carry it. A full size 1911 is surprisingly easy to carry and hide in a well designed inside the waistband holster. The weight and capacity do not make much sense for carry when compared to polymer framed wondernines, but they do carry and conceal well well.