LionHeart Vulcan Optic Ready

[Clusterfrack]

15+1 9mm. Based on the Daewoo DP-51 "DA+" AKA Triple Action. Fairly slim. And now optic ready with RMSc footprint (EPS) and standard height irons. I'm intrigued.

https://lionheartindustries.com/vulcan-9-shadow/
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-quu1cqbygk/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/165/506/DSC08431_crop__91255.1702507966.jpg

[MattyD380]

15+1 9mm. Based on the Daewoo DP-51 "DA+" AKA Triple Action. Fairly slim. And now optic ready with RMSc footprint (EPS) and standard height irons. I'm intrigued.

https://lionheartindustries.com/vulcan-9-shadow/
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-quu1cqbygk/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/165/506/DSC08431_crop__91255.1702507966.jpg

I dig my Daewoo…

115893

I’ve got Lionheart G10s on mine—though they’re a previous iteration of what’s offered now. Obviously it’s not in the same league as fully pimped out Vulcan, but I really like the way it shoots. The gun has a nice solid feel. Kinda like a slightly more refined Smith 3rd gen.

The DA+ definitely works. I kinda roll through it like an actual DA that’s just… super light. Seems to work.

[Kirk]

Wow, I had no idea this existed. I had 2 of what, if I remember correctly, were called Daewoo K5s back in the day. The triple action system was really interesting and the guns ran great, but obviously they had no aftermarket support or cutting-edge features.

If this runs, and I suspect that they will, I’ll probably buy a couple. Thinner than a CZ Shadow 2 compact and a tad lighter. I was a little surprised at the MSRP though, seems slightly high to me.

[Hambo]

It's cool, but the Vulcan to Glock cost ratio is out of whack.

[jetfire]

I've had two Lionheart pistols from various iterations of the company, and both of them were super solid shooters. Accurate, reliable, etc everything that you'd expect. My problem with the LH was always "what is this doing for me that a Beretta 92 Compact doesn't do?"

[YVK]

Are those decockers, safeties, or both at the rear of the frame?

[Kirk]

Are those decockers, safeties, or both at the rear of the frame?

If it’s like the old Daewoos, it is just a safety. Also, it should be noted that the safety can take some time to get used to since it is reverse of a 1911

[Clusterfrack]

I dig my Daewoo…
I’ve got Lionheart G10s on mine—though they’re a previous iteration of what’s offered now. Obviously it’s not in the same league as fully pimped out Vulcan, but I really like the way it shoots. The gun has a nice solid feel. Kinda like a slightly more refined Smith 3rd gen.

The DA+ definitely works. I kinda roll through it like an actual DA that’s just… super light. Seems to work.

That's good to hear--although the S&W comparison isn't a selling point for me. Mine were among the shittiest guns I've owned. Unreliable and bizarrely complicated internally. Is the Daewoo a better engineered design that justifies a $1700 pricetag? It is reliable? Easy to service?

I really like the DA+ action. I was one place away from winning an early version of that gun at a match and had the chance to fondle it.

[Clusterfrack]

If it’s like the old Daewoos, it is just a safety. Also, it should be noted that the safety can take some time to get used to since it is reverse of a 1911

My thought was you don't use the safety at all.

[MattyD380]

That's good to hear--although the S&W comparison isn't a selling point for me. Mine were among the shittiest guns I've owned. Unreliable and bizarrely complicated internally. Is the Daewoo a better engineered design that justifies a $1700 pricetag? It is reliable? Easy to service?

I really like the DA+ action. I was one place away from winning an early version of that gun at a match and had the chance to fondle it.

Honestly, I think Lionheart is out of their mind with pricing. I mean, maybe with all the added features... it's "worth" a high price... but, I don't know who's gonna pay $1600 - 1700 for a brand they've (more than likely) never heard of. Even if the gun is excellent. Maybe their strategy is to get the guns into the hands of high-level/deep-pocketed shooters and let word of mouth proliferate, until they can offer a more basic option at a more approachable price? All that said... they sold out of their initial production run. So, I guess people are buying them.

I feel like they need a "basic" option in their lineup, soon. Something with basic sights, fewer slide cuts, a non-titanium-nitride barrel. Something that's $700 - $800 and caters to the "I just want a nice-shooting, premium-feeling metal gun" crowd. That's kinda me. Not everyone is a competitive shooter. Seems like they could use a consumer segmentation, too.

If the Vulcan is anything like the Daewoo, it definitely has the "essence" of an old-school Smith. But the fit and finish, overall, seems nicer. And I'd venture to say the Vulcan is a cut above the OG Daewoo. They will run 59XX mags, though. At least the Daewoos and earlier Lionhearts did.

I think a big differentiator for these guns is form factor. They're smaller, thinner and (maybe) a bit handier than competitive options--including a very short trigger reach (which I love, personally). Plus, they offer a bit of that "old school gun" feel that we lost with the Smiths.

And... I think the DA+ is a good system that really does mitigate the heavy initial pull of a TDA system. Mine groups well when I'm shooting strings in DA+.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I've had two Lionheart pistols from various iterations of the company, and both of them were super solid shooters. Accurate, reliable, etc everything that you'd expect. My problem with the LH was always "what is this doing for me that a Beretta 92 Compact doesn't do?"

I believe it is substiantally thinner and lighter. K cut from the factory is also a nice clean way to integrate an RDS.


My thought was you don't use the safety at all.

That's how I would roll, but I generally dislike DA/SA guns with safeties from a fear I might accidentally activate the safety while carrying. The likelihood of that happening varies greatly by the design of the safety.

How would you describe the DA+? The guys from their company seem to be unable to describe it succinctly. I am thinking it is a DA pull length with SA weight, like an LEM?

[MattyD380]

My thought was you don't use the safety at all.

I use the safety on mine.

You said you messed with one, so you probably know... but... the DA+ is just an SA trigger, flipped forward to DA position; you've got about 1lb of "flippy slack" before you get to an SA wall. For me, that doesn't replace a true DA trigger in the "peace of mind" department. But, combined with a safety, I'm very comfortable with it.

[Noah]

I use the safety on mine.

You said you messed with one, so you probably know... but... the DA+ is just an SA trigger, flipped forward to DA position; you've got about 1lb of "flippy slack" before you get to an SA wall. For me, that doesn't replace a true DA trigger in the "peace of mind" department. But, combined with a safety, I'm very comfortable with it.

Doesn't it also have a weightless 2 piece hammer travel like a LEM, such that you can pin the hammer down as you holster?

For many of us, that's the main concern, but I see where you're coming from in that the DA+ doesn't do a ton to make the trigger pull itself "safer"

[Clusterfrack]

Doesn't it also have a weightless 2 piece hammer travel like a LEM, such that you can pin the hammer down as you holster?

For many of us, that's the main concern, but I see where you're coming from in that the DA+ doesn't do a ton to make the trigger pull itself "safer"

If it’s a long 3-4 pound pull, with a hammer, I’m fine with that and no safety.

[MattyD380]

Doesn't it also have a weightless 2 piece hammer travel like a LEM, such that you can pin the hammer down as you holster?

For many of us, that's the main concern, but I see where you're coming from in that the DA+ doesn't do a ton to make the trigger pull itself "safer"

Yeah, that's exactly right--it's basically a hinged hammer. So, from a holstering standpoint, you're good.

Personally, I like the peace of mind of an "off switch" with a trigger that light--lest I fumble a draw or carry in a soft holster.

[MattyD380]

If it’s a long 3-4 pound pull, with a hammer, I’m fine with that and no safety.

Yup, I think you'd be GTG with no safety. The Daewoo's SA is heavier than that... but I imagine Lionheart has slicked things up a bit, for $1700.

[Clusterfrack]

Detail strip and discussion of the DP-51 variants:
http://apexgunsmithing.com/disassembly-guide-lionheart-lh9daewoo-dp-51-variants/

I'm getting more interested in this gun...

[MattyD380]

Detail strip and discussion of the DP-51 variants:
http://apexgunsmithing.com/disassembly-guide-lionheart-lh9daewoo-dp-51-variants/

I'm getting more interested in this gun...

Nice! That's a good overview. I kinda wanna read those chapters, he mentioned.

[coN]

EDIT: Read earlier posts that answer my question, and the answer seems to be yes.

I remember reading somewhere that these were based on S&W 3rd gens and are (for lack of a better term) a modern 3rd gen.

Can anyone co-sign that assessment?

[Clusterfrack]

EDIT: Read earlier posts that answer my question, and the answer seems to be yes.

I remember reading somewhere that these were based on S&W 3rd gens and are (for lack of a better term) a modern 3rd gen.

Can anyone co-sign that assessment?

I've been digging into this, and haven't found evidence that the DP-51 and S&W 59 share a common design. I'd be interested in knowing more because I'm not a fan of the S&W based on owning two.

[Robinson]

I've been digging into this, and haven't found evidence that the DP-51 and S&W 59 share a common design. I'd be interested in knowing more because I'm not a fan of the S&W based on owning two.

The LH9 pistol series that preceded the Vulcan inherited the magazine and barrel design from the S&W Model 59, but they use dual locking lugs. Not much else came from the S&W lineage as far as I know. Maybe the frame/slide dimensions and geometry are similar? The OG trigger guard on the LH9 maybe?

[SCCY Marshal]

^^^ Some of the Model 59 mags won't actually run reliably. Tolerance stacking can be an issue and I've noticed several owners to run Lionheart mags for carry and save 59 units for range use only.


Are those decockers, safeties, or both at the rear of the frame?

Safety-only. You "decock" by pushing the cocked hammer forward with your thumb with a light effort to overcome a minor cam resistance. The innards remain fully cocked, like HK's LEM, and the trigger just brings the lowered hammer back before the sear trips so it has enough arc going forward to pop a primer. It feels more double action-y than HK's more striker-fired feel in standard LEM configurations. You can also carry cocked and locked but the chance is pretty good that bumping the hammer on something during carry will lower it, anyway.

[MattyD380]

The LH9 pistol series that preceded the Vulcan inherited the magazine and barrel design from the S&W Model 59, but they use dual locking lugs. Not much else came from the S&W lineage as far as I know. Maybe the frame/slide dimensions and geometry are similar? The OG trigger guard on the LH9 maybe?

The design is very similar in terms of its overall silhouette and layout, but not cloned per se. The parts are all different enough that nothing interchanges--except the magazines. My Daewoo runs fine (so far) on 6906 and 5906 mags. Which is kind of a nice bonus.

Beyond that...

Like Robinson said, the "Dae-Heart" guns use a similar barrel setup, with a belled muzzle, a pressed-in bushing and similar slide/barrel dimensions. Like the Smiths, they cam on the slide stop pin (which is also very similar)--but the Korean design uses a more traditional Sig/BHP-ish cam path, whereas the Smiths use little "tabs" on the sides of the barrel to assist in camming. And, as mentioned, the Dae-Hearts use two concentric locking lugs instead of one.

The trigger bar setup reminds more of a Beretta 92, actually. It's external and the SA break has that familiar 92-ish "thwack" to it. At least to me. The ACTUAL DA pull is awful (at least on mine). But you never use it, because you've got the DA+. Unless you've got some kinda second strike situation.

In a way, they seem to have incorporated a lot of the best ideas in pistol design, as of the late '80s: Smith, Beretta, maybe a touch of Sig...

To me, my Daewoo compact still feels most similar to a S&W 6906. But the G10 grips and straight backstrap make it a much sharper experience. And, overall, I think the fit and finish seems a touch more refined. To me, it's definitely its own thing... but if you like 3rd gen Smiths... what you like about them probably translates to the Dae-Heart.