G19 sized options

[breakingtime91]

After having part of my pinky amputated, I have started to formulate a plan to get back into shooting. I put my trusty p2000s to the side of the safe for now and grabbed a new pistol that is rds capable: the mp 2.0 compact.

What other options are out there that are g19 sized? I am only really interested in guns with hammers and if it's a striker, needs a safety.

[dontshakepandas]

CZ P-07 or Beretta PX4 Compact

[Le Français]

dontshakepandas has the right answers. Other ideas:

USP9c, CZ P01, Beretta 80x (.380), EDCX9 (spendy), P365 XL or Macro with safety, P239 (might be hard to find)

[HeavyDuty]

HK P30 is close, and for me anyway is a much better hand fit than a 19.

[Noah]

I think LTT can cut the P2000 for a dot.

You're looking for optics ready, hammer fired, G19 size? Aren't we all :P
There are good options like the P2000, PX4CC, and P07, but they all take special work to cut for a red dot.
The only factory optics ready hammer fired options that come to mind are Beretta 92s (a compact?), Sig P226/229, the Shadow 2 Compact (no FPB) and maybe the Arex Zero 1 226 and 229 clone. Beretta 80X is close to 19 size. P365 with a safety and macro module is also close.

I gave up and went with G19 with an SCD. I carried a PX4CC and full size for a year and they are fantastic guns.

The 2.0C with a safety is a good choice for a striker gun with a manual safety if thats what you want.

[HeavyDuty]

Too bad the VP9 doesn’t take a SCD…

[Noah]

Too bad the VP9 doesn’t take a SCD…

Or even a thumb safety.

Off topic, but to me perosnally, Glock/SCD and LEM are ideal because they do not require manual decocking or safety manipulation, give an "easy but not tooo easy" trigger pull, do not require DA or DA/SA transition, but still give you a backup parachute holstering option.

[Clusterfrack]

...P2000, PX4CC, and P07, but they all take special work to cut for a red dot.

I've come to prefer direct milled pistols because no one makes an OR gun the way I want. Few factory slides come with the rear iron forward, where it belongs. And the optic sits higher in OR guns, requiring an annoyingly tall front sight and a different index.

ATEi's Shim Sight is a fantastic option for 509 or Acro footprints.

[dontshakepandas]

HK P30 is close, and for me anyway is a much better hand fit than a 19.

P30 is closer to a G45 than a 19 in actual size, but since the grip is more curved it conceals as well as a G19.

I do agree that it has a better hand fit than a 19, but the rounded "ergonomic" grip actually made it harder for me to index from a draw. The 2x4 Glock certainly doesn't feel as good in my hand, but it is easier for me to get a consistent grip.

[breakingtime91]

HK P30 is close, and for me anyway is a much better hand fit than a 19.

P30 is a great option but it is enough longer that it prints on my 5' 9" frame.

[Clusterfrack]

P30 is a great option but it is enough longer that it prints on my 5' 9" frame.

If your hands aren't huge, check out a P-07. Everyone who's shot my Prograde P07s (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12944-New-CZ-P-07-Mind-Blown&p=1430266&viewfull=1#post1430266) has liked them a lot. Except people with big hands.

[breakingtime91]

P30 is closer to a G45 than a 19 in actual size, but since the grip is more curved it conceals as well as a G19.

I do agree that it has a better hand fit than a 19, but the rounded "ergonomic" grip actually made it harder for me to index from a draw. The 2x4 Glock certainly doesn't feel as good in my hand, but it is easier for me to get a consistent grip.

I also found this to be true. The p30 feels inconsistent out of the holster, for me. P2000 seems to be the best option but LTT does not currently mill them and wright armory charges north of 400 for their plate system. Which isn't a huge deal if that's what you are going with for the long term.

[dontshakepandas]

I also found this to be true. The p30 feels inconsistent out of the holster, for me. P2000 seems to be the best option but LTT does not currently mill them and wright armory charges north of 400 for their plate system. Which isn't a huge deal if that's what you are going with for the long term.

If I needed an optic ready gun today and it couldn't be a Gen 5 Glock 19 with an SCD... I'd pick a Glock 49 with an SCD.

I've tried a P-07 and just didn't care for it. Partly because it felt a little cheap and I didn't like the controls, but I also don't really love DA/SA. I've shot a LTT PX4 and if I HAD to go with a DA/SA gun that would be my choice. I don't like that if you want a closed emitter RDS you are stuck with Holosun. You also get direct mill prices and wait times and still use a plate for mounting which I'd avoid for any optic that attaches with screws instead of a cross bolt clamp (I've had no issues with any of my FCD ACRO plates on my Glocks).

[4RNR]

Sig 229, Beretta 92compact

What about something like the Macro or Hellcat Pro. Both come with safeties along with 15 (hellcat) and 17 round mags

Cheapest option would be to just cut your P2000

[KevH]

If you want a true G19 sized pistol in the criteria you mentioned I think you're looking at a CZ (P-07, PCR, or P01) for DA/SA or for striker a S&W M&P 2.0 OR Compact with thumb safety.

The P365 XMacro isn't a bad choice either, but I find I don't shoot them quite as well as a "normal" width gun. Even with the "L" backstrap insert I just don't think there is much meat there.

Incidentally, I have found I shoot the M&P Compact (especially the newest variation) better than a G19 in factory configuration, as have quite a few others (Frank Proctor of notable folks) and am able to ride the thumb safety similar to a 1911.

[breakingtime91]

If your hands aren't huge, check out a P-07. Everyone who's shot my Prograde P07s (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12944-New-CZ-P-07-Mind-Blown&p=1430266&viewfull=1#post1430266) has liked them a lot. Except people with big hands.

Besides trying out the mp 2.0 that was next on the list. I like how low the dot can be milled and also the fact that it's hammer fired. Not sold on getting non oem parts if I don't have to. The older I get, the less I want to mess with guns I carry.

I'm not against it but that's why I've wanted to try other options than the p2000 because to get them where I want them it would be :red dot milling, flat trigger, and short reset kit is almost another 600 dollars on top of the base gun. I'm not against that but for 600 dollars and a 65 dollar plate I can get a mp with thumb safety that works out of the box.

[breakingtime91]

If you want a true G19 sized pistol in the criteria you mentioned I think you're looking at a CZ (P-07, PCR, or P01) for DA/SA or for striker a S&W M&P 2.0 OR Compact with thumb safety.

The P365 XMacro isn't a bad choice either, but I find I don't shoot them quite as well as a "normal" width gun. Even with the "L" backstrap insert I just don't think there is much meat there.

Incidentally, I have found I shoot the M&P Compact (especially the newest variation) better than a G19 in factory configuration, as have quite a few others (Frank Proctor of notable folks) and am able to ride the thumb safety similar to a 1911.

As someone who appreciates the "compact" size of hand guns I am really impressed by the MP and may end up staying with it, if it shoots well and I also fide the safety like a 1911. I have about 2k set aside for initial get to know you and I'm ordering another 8k to really shoot it.

[Clusterfrack]

...Not sold on getting non oem parts if I don't have to. The older I get, the less I want to mess with guns I carry.

...it would be :red dot milling, flat trigger, and short reset kit is almost another 600 dollars on top of the base gun.

I forget exactly what each of my ProGrade P-07s cost, but it's over $1k total for sure. The ProGrade kit isn't a necessity. You can use almost entires OEM parts and bring the DA pull down to 7 or 8#.

I hate the flat trigger.

[breakingtime91]

I forget exactly what each of my ProGrade P-07s cost, but it's over $1k total for sure. The ProGrade kit isn't a necessity. You can use almost entires OEM parts and bring the DA pull down to 7 or 8#.

I hate the flat trigger.

I hate them on DA/SA. I'm Luke warm on the lem. It has a better break than the factory trigger on the p2000 but, time will tell.

[KevH]

I hate them on DA/SA. I'm Luke warm on the lem. It has a better break than the factory trigger on the p2000 but, time will tell.

I don't like them on most guns. The factory flat trigger with a factory "Performance Center" or "PC" firing pin plunger is pretty darn nice on a M&P and a huge improvement over the hinged curved trigger.

[breakingtime91]

I don't like them on most guns. The factory flat trigger with a factory "Performance Center" or "PC" firing pin plunger is pretty darn nice on a M&P and a huge improvement over the hinged curved trigger.

If the accuracy issue is fixed on the mp, I think it's a completely underrated option. Thumb safety is positive, gives you safety when reholstering. It is gonna be a mental hurdle to get past not having s hammer to thumb.

[Lon]

The best turnkey option is the M&P Compact. Having had both the M&P and the P07, I preferred my P07 with the Pro Grade kit and an RMR direct milled. But it’s definitely more $$. I’d say at least 2x the cost of a stock M&P.

[Noah]

If the accuracy issue is fixed on the mp, I think it's a completely underrated option. Thumb safety is positive, gives you safety when reholstering. It is gonna be a mental hurdle to get past not having s hammer to thumb.

The 2 optic ready 2.0s I had Decemember 2021-June 2022 both held in the black at 25y on a B8, and tighter with Norma 124 and Gold Dot if I did my part.

I have terrible range of motion in my right thumb so had to ditch my plan to use the thumb safeties, or I probably would have kept them. I went PX4 after the M&Ps since I'd carried a 92 in 2020-2021, then I went back to Glock.
For me, the 2.0 full feels great but is long in the grip for carry, and the 2.0C was a little too small front to back vs a Glock or PX4CC. But that's perosnal.
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ETA: I've become a really big fan of the Holosun SCS line to turn an optics ready plate gun into a super low direct mill.

[breakingtime91]

The 2 optic ready 2.0s I had Decemember 2021-June 2022 both held in the black at 25y on a B8, and tighter with Norma 124 and Gold Dot if I did my part.

I have terrible range of motion in my right thumb so had to ditch my plan to use the thumb safeties, or I probably would have kept them. I went PX4 after the M&Ps since I'd carried a 92 in 2020-2021, then I went back to Glock.
115877

ETA: I've become a really big fan of the Holosun SCS line to turn an optics ready plate gun into a super low direct mill.

I love and hate glocks. I really wanted to try the glock 49 but I've been down the road glock too many times. I just never felt comfortable with even the Gadget, 100% mental on my end

[Noah]

I love and hate glocks. I really wanted to try the glock 49 but I've been down the road glock too many times. I just never felt comfortable with even the Gadget, 100% mental on my end

For me, Glock with an SCD between the drop shelf under the trigger bar and then the SCD is a very secure system compared to basically any other striker gun. I love DA/SA in theory and have spent a combined 3+ years with 92s and PX4s, but FOR ME, DA/SA just took more work and upkeep to maintain skills. Some months I'm dry firing 3+ times a week and shooting a match, other months I'm busy with kids and work and school and only get (make time to) to dry fire a few times in a month, and staying proficient with a Glock is just a lot easier for me personally. There are plenty of other people for whom DA/SA is even less of a factor.

I also found myself very tempted to NOT decock the Berettas coming off target in a competition environment. That was another reason I decided to go LEM or back to Glock SCD, as both systems "auto reset" as you come off the trigger.

LEM is certainly a slightly larger margin of safety than Glock/SCD, but for me, Glock is simply much cheaper and simpler, optics ready, and safe enough. I really love the simplicity of the Glocks from an engineering perspective, and I shoot them as well or better than anything else with the flat sides and rolling trigger.

[breakingtime91]

For me, Glock with an SCD between the drop shelf under the trigger bar and then the SCD is a very secure system compared to basically any other striker gun. I love DA/SA in theory and have spent a combined 3+ years with 92s and PX4s, but FOR ME, DA/SA just took more work and upkeep to maintain skills. Some months I'm dry firing 3+ times a week and shooting a match, other months I'm busy with kids and work and school and only get (make time to) to dry fire a few times in a month, and staying proficient with a Glock is just a lot easier for me personally. There are plenty of other people for whom DA/SA is even less of a factor.

I also found myself very tempted to NOT decock the Berettas coming off target in a competition environment. That was another reason I decided to go LEM or back to Glock SCD, as both systems "auto reset" as you come off the trigger.

LEM is certainly a slightly larger margin of safety than Glock/SCD, but for me, Glock is simply much cheaper and simpler, optics ready, and safe enough. I really love the simplicity of the Glocks from an engineering perspective, and I shoot them as well or better than anything else with the flat sides and rolling trigger.

Agree with all of this. I ended up with a lem gun because I went with the side of caution.


And now I have a MP for all the reasons you described when it pertained why you are back to glock. I 100% understand and you basically summed up the thought process of the MP purchase. I have 5 kids under 10 and a full time job, some months I barely get to dry fire because I usually chose working out over dry fire.


Parenting issues :cool:

[Noah]

Agree with all of this. I ended up with a lem gun because I went with the side of caution.


And now I have a MP for all the reasons you described when it pertained why you are back to glock. I 100% understand and you basically summed up the thought process of the MP purchase. I have 5 kids under 10 and a full time job, some months I barely get to dry fire because I usually chose working out over dry fire.


Parenting issues :cool:

I'm only at 2 kids under 3!

I have a nice scaled targets and some room to move dryfire setup in the basement, and the room to the right of my "start" area we remodeled into a playroom. Now I can dryfire while my daughter plays down there and take breaks between drills to pretend to drink the tea cup she made me or help her fix something. It really worked out haha

The simple guns are nice because on the months you get to invest in a lot of dry and live practice, they come right with you, and in the months where the budget is crammed and kids are sick and work is busy, they stay simple.

[dontshakepandas]

I have 5 kids under 10

Dang, sounds like you needed a different kind of safety. :D

[breakingtime91]

Dang, sounds like you needed a different kind of safety. :D

Blended family but the wife and I do enjoy one another ;)

[HeavyDuty]

I have 5 kids under 10… I usually chose working out over dry fire.

Is that what the kids call it nowadays?

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Besides trying out the mp 2.0 that was next on the list. I like how low the dot can be milled and also the fact that it's hammer fired. Not sold on getting non oem parts if I don't have to. The older I get, the less I want to mess with guns I carry.



The only aftermarket part you NEED on a P07 is the firing pin retaining pin, which is under $10.

P07+a few parts+ basic milling= about the same price as an MOS Glock. Really a wash once you add holsters and the dot.... Maybe a 10% price difference?

One new option you might consider is the upcoming Grand Power MK23, which are going to be optics ready from the factory.

[Oldherkpilot]

I just picked up a 2.0 CORE for my wife and I like it better than any other striker-fired pistol I've shot. I zeroed the dot the other day and was very pleased with the accuracy. I attribute part of the nice group to the superb trigger. The three rounds under the tape were pretty tight, too. (Especially considering it was me on the trigger!) I prefer my CZ but this S&W is pretty slick.
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[MGW]

After having part of my pinky amputated, I have started to formulate a plan to get back into shooting. I put my trusty p2000s to the side of the safe for now and grabbed a new pistol that is rds capable: the mp 2.0 compact.

What other options are out there that are g19 sized? I am only really interested in guns with hammers and if it's a striker, needs a safety.

There are really only 3 answers in my mind.

Sig 229 - readily available OEM optics ready

Beretta 92C - I think only available from LTT. I'm not sure if I have actually seen a 92C with an optic. - I'll add that the Centurion concealed as well as a 19 for me. The Centurion is probably my favorite Beretta.

Beretta PX4CC - I believe only available optics ready from LTT

My favorite TDA trigger is the 229. If I had to choose one TDA to live with for the rest of my life - the 229 would be it, followed closely by the 226.

[Noah]

There are really only 3 answers in my mind.

Sig 229 - readily available OEM optics ready

Beretta 92C - I think only available from LTT. I'm not sure if I have actually seen a 92C with an optic. - I'll add that the Centurion concealed as well as a 19 for me. The Centurion is probably my favorite Beretta.

Beretta PX4CC - I believe only available optics ready from LTT

My favorite TDA trigger is the 229. If I had to choose one TDA to live with for the rest of my life - the 229 would be it, followed closely by the 226.

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/product/92x-rdo-compact-FA0047

[G19Fan]

I just picked up a 2.0 CORE for my wife and I like it better than any other striker-fired pistol I've shot. I zeroed the dot the other day and was very pleased with the accuracy. I attribute part of the nice group to the superb trigger. The three rounds under the tape were pretty tight, too. (Especially considering it was me on the trigger!) I prefer my CZ but this S&W is pretty slick.
115894

I don't get why the mp9 series isn't more popular with the 2.0 variants

[Noah]

I don't get why the mp9 series isn't more popular with the 2.0 variants

I see then in cop holsters quite often. The 320 and M&P are in a pretty close fight behind Glock for LEO contracts.

For the civilian crowd... it's a popular gun. Some people don't like Smith. Some people think the M&P is "cheap". Some people are still afraid of the mushy trigger and accuracy problems of the 1.0. Biggest reason? It's not new and flashy.

Basically the only gun relatively immune to the need to be "the new hotness" is Glock, and thats an enviable market position.

[MGW]

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/product/92x-rdo-compact-FA0047

Now I've seen one! I still like the Centurion better but it's good to know the compact is an option.

[Biggy]

When the wolves are at the door and my life is on the line and I had to pick one striker fired 9mm pistol to go to war and fight with *out of the box*, it would still be a Glock. From past experience I just believe Glock has better consistent quality control over most other brands of SF pistols. Of course if you have vetted your pistol through thousands of rds of ammo and it has prove reliable, carry whatever pistol you want.

[John Hearne]

I'm waiting for the non-ported 4" barrel/slide for the P365 Macro. I'll probably be buying two when they come out. (1-2 year ETA)

[RAM Engineer]

I'm waiting for the non-ported 4" barrel/slide for the P365 Macro. I'll probably be buying two when they come out. (1-2 year ETA)

Standard non-ported Macro has a 3.7" barrel. Is 0.3" that important?

I'm still kind of miffed that the Macro went with a grip longer than the G19, as the grip is what I typically have the hardest time concealing.

[FreedomFries]

I've tried mostly everything discussed so far, and here's some of my thoughts on them.

P-07:
Agree with TicTacticalTimmy on using the CGW firing pin retaining pin. The trigger quality is widely variable out of the box, and some are OK while others are awful with a lot of grit and stacking. I did use some of the parts in the CGW Pro Grade kit as well as the Old Style 85 trigger shoe they make on two of my P-07s. If you go this route instead of using the entire kit, make sure you understand which parts of the CGW kit are not to be mixed and matched with OEM parts. The short reset kit is meant to be used as a system. Certain combinations of the kit with OEM parts are not recommended and will cause problems. Direct optic cut is a readily available option. In some cuts, the firing pin block channel can be exposed and the spring will be retained by the optic. Dawson Precision makes a wide variety of front sight heights. I am concerned that CZ will discontinue or severely limit the support for the P-07 in the near future.

P229:
This is significantly bulkier feeling than a G19 as I'm sure you're aware. Weight wise, it's similar to a P226 and I prefer the P226. Sig has limited the P229 mostly to the beavertail frames (Legion, Elite, Pro) and the California model with the LCI that interferes with optic cuts as well as the magazine safety locking insert. The beavertail, aside from probably being completely unnecessary for people with hand sizes under the 98th percentile, makes securing the hammer when holstering a bit uncomfortable as well being uncomfortable when bending over if you wear it AIWB. If they left off the beavertail on the Elite and Legion series, I think they would have had a winner. The position of the optic on the RXP/R2 cut and typical aftermarket optic cut will necessitate a moderately high ride if worn AIWB.

92 Centurion/Compact:
Optic cut necessitates a high holster ride height. Heavy like a P229. Quality control at Beretta TN factory has been underwhelming in my opinion. Still a great pistol. Factory optic cut is awful and I would not find it useable for AIWB carry because it sits so far forward and high. The LTT optic cut is much better but requires their modified parts and still needs a high ride height for me to wear AIWB.

PX4 Compact:
The commonly available optic cut on this, similar to on the 92, will necessitate a high holster ride height if you wear it IWB/AIWB. If you look at Langdon Tactical's website, there is a picture of the JMCK Wing Claw 2.5 holster for the RDO PX4, and you will see how high that thing is made to ride. Grip texture could only be worse if they put Astroglide on it at the factory. Accessory rail has poor compatibility with common lights.

P2000:
Somewhat low capacity for the size. Optic milling is limited mostly to Wright Armory, which is very expensive and time consuming, as stated by others. Small magazine release lever.

P320/M18:
The manual safety that you want is mostly limited to the M17/M18 variants. Can easily get a compact size grip module for the M18 to make it more G19 size instead of G45 size. The M18 has a very snappy feeling recoil to me. The example I have has poor accuracy compared to a Glock Gen 5. Has many long discussions regarding product safety; you'll want to decide on that topic for yourself. I don't personally care for the striker safety lock design powered by the teeny tiny spring. I'm pretty sure I have nose hair thicker than those springs. I sort of regret buying these.

M2.0 Compact:
This was much more accurate than the 4.25" full size model I have. Manual safety is fine but disengages a bit too easily for my liking. Basically a fully cocked striker despite any claims of it being double action. I wish they had designed the striker block to intercept the striker towards the front rather than catching it at the rear. I haven't heard of the striker snapping in the middle or rear resulting in AD though. No experience with the CORE system. Optics look like they sit pretty high with it. Grip texture is great but they forgot to texture the upper portion of the grip.

[breakingtime91]

All of this makes me want to sell everything and buy a glock. Damn

[Noah]

All of this makes me want to sell everything and buy a glock. Damn

G19 with an SCD is the answer to a lot of questions!

But milling a P2000 would cost less than a new gun.

115902

[Mitch]

All of this makes me want to sell everything and buy a glock. Damn

Honestly, all the striker fired 9mms aren’t THAT different. Glock makes a lot of things easy because it’s such a popular product.

[GJM]

These days, I can shoot a 365 Macro as well or better than a Glock 19 (or 320 Compact for that matter) The grip, being slightly longer, is easier for me than the 19 grip. It carries more comfortably because of how thin it is. The magazines are easier to carry and conceal because they are thinner. Most people will be able to work the trigger easier on a Macro than a Glock trigger. My Macros shoot HST 124+P into four inches at 50 yards. Buy a Macro TacOps, take it out of the box, bolt on a Holosun 407/507K, EPS Carry or Romeo X, and you are done.

I am not getting rid of any Glocks, but the Macro has been in my waist band every day for the last three months.

[breakingtime91]

These days, I can shoot a 365 Macro as well or better than a Glock 19 (or 320 Compact for that matter) The grip, being slightly longer, is easier for me than the 19 grip. It carries more comfortably because of how thin it is. The magazines are easier to carry and conceal because they are thinner. Most people will be able to work the trigger easier on a Macro than a Glock trigger. My Macros shoot HST 124+P into four inches at 50 yards. Buy a Macro TacOps, take it out of the box, bolt on a Holosun 407/507K, EPS Carry or Romeo X, and you are done.

I am not getting rid of any Glocks, but the Macro has been in my waist band every day for the last three months.

I rusted a sig 365xl, other than that I loved the gun.

[GJM]

I rusted a sig 365xl, other than that I loved the gun.

I also recall some surface corrosion on an early 365 and especially the mags. They must have changed something, because I have been shooting the crap out of a few Macros and carrying them, with no signs of corrosion.

[backtrail540]

Impact Machine also mills the p2000's and for a reasonable price. He is the son of Cajun Gun Works and i haven't heard anything negative yet but have no personal experience.

https://impactcncmachine.com/hk-p2000sk/

[G19Fan]

Impact Machine also mills the p2000's and for a reasonable price. He is the son of Cajun Gun Works and i haven't heard anything negative yet but have no personal experience.

https://impactcncmachine.com/hk-p2000sk/

Never knew that family relationship!

[G19Fan]

These days, I can shoot a 365 Macro as well or better than a Glock 19 (or 320 Compact for that matter) The grip, being slightly longer, is easier for me than the 19 grip. It carries more comfortably because of how thin it is. The magazines are easier to carry and conceal because they are thinner. Most people will be able to work the trigger easier on a Macro than a Glock trigger. My Macros shoot HST 124+P into four inches at 50 yards. Buy a Macro TacOps, take it out of the box, bolt on a Holosun 407/507K, EPS Carry or Romeo X, and you are done.

I am not getting rid of any Glocks, but the Macro has been in my waist band every day for the last three months.

100% only handguns we own currently besides two legacy glocks. Trying to keep it that way

[Elwin]

Impact Machine also mills the p2000's and for a reasonable price. He is the son of Cajun Gun Works and i haven't heard anything negative yet but have no personal experience.

https://impactcncmachine.com/hk-p2000sk/

I had a couple 1911 slides done by them and ran into some long (or longer than previously indicated) wait times, but it was literally at the same time as they were clearly hiring more staff and trying to buy new machines to deal with increased volume. I can totally get growing pains and I think they've successfully worked through this last phase of them. When I had a problem getting correct spare screws, Scott was extremely responsive and helpful. He'd initially told me the wrong screw dimensions and once he realized it he even offered to pay me to reimburse what I'd spent buying the wrong ones. If I recall correctly I had him responding to my emails in 20 minute intervals on a Saturday.

I'm very happy with the work on my guns and would probably only consider Impact if I was getting HKs milled (cheaper and shorter wait time than Wright, more finish options than Langdon, including DLC).

[Jason]

For me, Glock with an SCD between the drop shelf under the trigger bar and then the SCD is a very secure system compared to basically any other striker gun. I love DA/SA in theory and have spent a combined 3+ years with 92s and PX4s, but FOR ME, DA/SA just took more work and upkeep to maintain skills. Some months I'm dry firing 3+ times a week and shooting a match, other months I'm busy with kids and work and school and only get (make time to) to dry fire a few times in a month, and staying proficient with a Glock is just a lot easier for me personally. There are plenty of other people for whom DA/SA is even less of a factor.

I also found myself very tempted to NOT decock the Berettas coming off target in a competition environment. That was another reason I decided to go LEM or back to Glock SCD, as both systems "auto reset" as you come off the trigger.

LEM is certainly a slightly larger margin of safety than Glock/SCD, but for me, Glock is simply much cheaper and simpler, optics ready, and safe enough. I really love the simplicity of the Glocks from an engineering perspective, and I shoot them as well or better than anything else with the flat sides and rolling trigger.


I went through a similar process and came to the same conclusion. Also, the years of shooting Glocks was just a lot of training to throw out the window to make a transition at this point in my life. My range time is very rare and ammunition is much more expensive than it used to be. Sticking with the Glocks, even though they aren’t perfect, was the way for me to go. Also all the support gear like holsters, and all that was just too much to replicate for a new platform.

[pi3]

I love and hate glocks. I really wanted to try the glock 49 but I've been down the road glock too many times. I just never felt comfortable with even the Gadget, 100% mental on my end

I was going to suggest the glock with the gadget until you mentioned the 5 young kids. Sounds like you need something with a thumb safety.

[Mitch]

I was going to suggest the glock with the gadget until you mentioned the 5 young kids. Sounds like you need something with a thumb safety.

Respectfully I disagree. I have three young kids. Them getting ahold of a gun unsupervised is unacceptable to me regardless of weapon features. My guns are either locked in safes now or in a holster on my belt. No exceptions.

This is one of those things that’s a software issue, not hardware.

[John Hearne]

Standard non-ported Macro has a 3.7" barrel. Is 0.3" that important?

Rationally - probably not.

Emotionally - I spent 20+ years carrying a 45 ACP. The part of my brain that misses the 45 wants those little bullets to get as much of a start as possible. :)

[GJM]

Rationally - probably not.

Emotionally - I spent 20+ years carrying a 45 ACP. The part of my brain that misses the 45 wants those little bullets to get as much of a start as possible. :)

You might be able to extrapolate what .3 would do, based on this that I posted back in January. I am guessing a 4.0 barrel would be worth about 25 fps over a 3.7.

YVK and I were discussing 365 barrels and velocity, and I agreed to use my new Garmin chrono to check velocities with 124 Lawman and 124+P Gold Dot. Here is what I got, at about 700 feet above sea level on a 60F day, for a three shot average with each load.

3.7 XL length barrel
124 Lawman 1,105 fps
124 Gold Dot (all Gold Dot was +P) 1,145 fps

3.1 OEM barrel
124 Lawman 1,057 fps
124 Gold Dot 1,079

PMM barrel and comp that is same overall length as an XL
124 Lawman 1,055 fps
124 Gold dot 1,104 fps

[breakingtime91]

Respectfully I disagree. I have three young kids. Them getting ahold of a gun unsupervised is unacceptable to me regardless of weapon features. My guns are either locked in safes now or in a holster on my belt. No exceptions.

This is one of those things that’s a software issue, not hardware.

What he said. Guns are either locked or on my body. I sleep with a condition 3 ar 15 next to my bed when we go to sleep and our bedroom door is locked so children do not have access unless an adult is awake and opens the door.

Grab carbine, run charging handle, and move to a position of advantage between invader and children while wife moves with pistol to the kids. At least that's the plan.

[John Hearne]

You might be able to extrapolate what .3 would do, based on this that I posted back in January. I am guessing a 4.0 barrel would be worth about 25 fps over a 3.7.


My math from 3.7 to 4.0 suggest the +P would bump to 1238. Which is just shy of 100 FPS.

I checked the same predictions for what we know - 3.1 to 3.7 and the number is higher than the actual data for the 3.7 which suggests a point of quickly diminishing returns.

The data I can find on Speer Gold Dot +P out of a Glock 19 says 1220 fps or 75 fps above the 3.7.

115941

[GJM]

My math from 3.7 to 4.0 suggest the +P would bump to 1238. Which is just shy of 100 FPS.

I checked the same predictions for what we know - 3.1 to 3.7 and the number is higher than the actual data for the 3.7 which suggests a point of quickly diminishing returns.

The data I can find on Speer Gold Dot +P out of a Glock 19 says 1220 fps or 75 fps above the 3.7.

115941

Since I got 66 fps for a .6 increase in barrel length out of Sig 365 barrels on my Garmin chronograph, I am not following?

[John Hearne]

Since I got 66 fps for a .6 increase in barrel length out of Sig 365 barrels on my Garmin chronograph, I am not following?

I just did the straight extrapolate from the data we have and then checked it against data we already had. I'm sure the relationship between barrel length and velocity isn't perfectly linear so it's not perfect.

[GJM]

I just did the straight extrapolate from the data we have and then checked it against data we already had. I'm sure the relationship between barrel length and velocity isn't perfectly linear so it's not perfect.

John, thinking about Sig products (and HK), four inches doesn't seem common as a 9mm barrel length, any idea why they do 3.6-3.8 as opposed to 4.0 on most of their pistols?

[RAM Engineer]

Rationally - probably not.

Emotionally - I spent 20+ years carrying a 45 ACP. The part of my brain that misses the 45 wants those little bullets to get as much of a start as possible. :)

Before the AWB expired, my carry gun was a SIG P228. I loved that little gun, except for the rattley mags and worse capacity to weight ratio than a G19. Once the AWB expired, I slowly migrated over to the G19. The P228 had a 3.9” barrel, so even closer to the XMacro length.

[CCT125US]

You can math all you want. I have a P2000Sk that measures faster than one of my P30s. Yes, barrel length matters, but there are other factors involved. Just sayin.

[Erick Gelhaus]

After having part of my pinky amputated, I have started to formulate a plan to get back into shooting. I put my trusty p2000s to the side of the safe for now and grabbed a new pistol that is rds capable: the mp 2.0 compact.

What other options are out there that are g19 sized? I am only really interested in guns with hammers and if it's a striker, needs a safety.

From my perspective, the M&P 2.0 Compact w/Thumb Safety is my choice. While I may like other mid-sized 9mms, hands down, the 2.0 Compact is my preference.

[stinx]

Walther PDP Compact is Glock 19 sized also

[entropy]

I’ve returned to my roots lately and have been shooting my HKs again. The USPc is about the same size as a G19. I wonder if that grip extension on the magazine would help “tuck” the lower portion of your remaining pinky finger into the grip. I notice a definite difference shooting the compact with the magazine extension vs using a plain flat floor plate. I have a much more solid purchase using the magazine with the extension. I’m not sure exactly how much you’re missing, but for myself it seems that it “tucks” or creates purchase from about the knuckle down towards the outside of the hand.

[feudist]

The G19 length/height/width/weight/payload is certainly where all the lines cross.
Add in its other characteristics, its ecosystem, SCD and ease of optic mounting and one can easily see why it is such a standard. You have to go down into the weeds in rather specific use cases and preferences(like brand loyalty, disliking what you're department issues on contrarian principle...or being a 1911 trigger queen:p) to get a meaningful ROI on something else.

[David S.]

Has the CZ P-10c been mentioned? Interesting because of the SCD that'll soon be available.

I'm larger than average, so I don't notice a significant concealment difference between "full size" and "compact" sized guns.

[TheNewbie]

If money was no object, and I didn’t need a functioning tractor, then I would try a USPc LEM with thumb safety.


I think the P-07 is good enough as is out of the box, and despite it being DA/SA, I would feel most comfortable going back to it over any other gun, if I had been away from shooting for a long period of time. Just something about the trigger characteristics works for me, the controls are about perfect.


Currently I use a Glock, but I wish I had went M&P as my striker option. Despite the SCD and NY1 trigger, I still do not feel all that comfortable with Glocks vs other platforms. Even the imperfect safety on the M&P would be preferred.

[John Hearne]

John, thinking about Sig products (and HK), four inches doesn't seem common as a 9mm barrel length, any idea why they do 3.6-3.8 as opposed to 4.0 on most of their pistols?

No idea. My guess is that 3.9 is also 100 mm. Maybe some weird Europe thing?

[xray 99]

No idea. My guess is that 3.9 is also 100 mm. Maybe some weird Europe thing?

I believe this is correct. The Beretta M9 barrel is 125 mm; thus the odd 4.9 inch barrel length.

[medmo]

Interesting because of the SCD that'll soon be available.

Interesting. Can you share details? Thanks

[David S.]

Interesting. Can you share details? Thanks

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?58839-I-m-making-the-SCD-Holstering-Safety-for-the-CZ-P-10-Ask-me-your-questions!

[Kanye Wyoming]

Interesting. Can you share details? Thanks
Two threads on this.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?58839-I-m-making-the-SCD-Holstering-Safety-for-the-CZ-P-10-Ask-me-your-questions!

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?58726-SCD-for-the-CZ-P10/page3

Speaking of which - benmac, any news on further reviews/T&E beyond Humble Marksman, and when it might be available?

[John Hearne]

Standard non-ported Macro has a 3.7" barrel. Is 0.3" that important?

Today I was reminded that 4" is the breaking point for enough barrel to shoot common 9mm duty loads well. Anything less than 4" requires greater care in selection of ammunition.

[benmac]

Two threads on this.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?58839-I-m-making-the-SCD-Holstering-Safety-for-the-CZ-P-10-Ask-me-your-questions!

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?58726-SCD-for-the-CZ-P10/page3

Speaking of which - benmac, any news on further reviews/T&E beyond Humble Marksman, and when it might be available?

Yes! We didn't send it to the humble marksman for testing, so much as we did sponsorship. We plan on having them shipped out within the next two months. We will also be announcing some new SCD / Holstering Safeties for other pistols soon plus some other news!

[breakingtime91]

Today I was reminded that 4" is the breaking point for enough barrel to shoot common 9mm duty loads well. Anything less than 4" requires greater care in selection of ammunition.

What happened?

[HeavyDuty]

Yes! We didn't send it to the humble marksman for testing, so much as we did sponsorship. We plan on having them shipped out within the next two months. We will also be announcing some new SCD / Holstering Safeties for other pistols soon plus some other news!

Can you offer any hints on what those future pistols might be? I really like the HK VP9 series, but the lack of a SCD type of holstering aid makes them nonstarters for me.

[benmac]

Can you offer any hints on what those future pistols might be? I really like the HK VP9 series, but the lack of a SCD type of holstering aid makes them nonstarters for me.

We will be making them for as many pistols as we possibly can. Subscribe to our newsletter to stay up to date on our other future offerings. I can tell you the VP-9 is certainly on our radar.

[Mitch]

Today I was reminded that 4" is the breaking point for enough barrel to shoot common 9mm duty loads well. Anything less than 4" requires greater care in selection of ammunition.

Would like to hear what happened and what you recommend for something in the 3.4” range.

[Hstanton1]

Today I was reminded that 4" is the breaking point for enough barrel to shoot common 9mm duty loads well. Anything less than 4" requires greater care in selection of ammunition.

Chuck Haggard recently posted about 124 HST performing very well out of sub 4” barrels in his pocket rocket class

[Noah]

Is that a common problem with HST and Gold Dot? To be honest, all the other less mainstream options are pretty irrelevant to me.

[45dotACP]

Is that a common problem with HST and Gold Dot? To be honest, all the other less mainstream options are pretty irrelevant to me.

I'm no SME, but I would expect if you're carrying HST or Gold Dot you are probably just fine.

[RAM Engineer]

We will be making them for as many pistols as we possibly can. Subscribe to our newsletter to stay up to date on our other future offerings. I can tell you the VP-9 is certainly on our radar.

Who is "we"? Where do we subscribe to your newsletter?

[psalms144.1]

I'm not trying to throw poo poo on any ideas of terminal performance out of 9mm out of short barrels, BUT, there's a TON of folks on this forum who happily carry 5 shot 38s loaded with standard pressure wadcutters. Not sure why we would obsess over slightly less performance out of a duty-ish pistol.

[HeavyDuty]

Who is "we"? Where do we subscribe to your newsletter?

https://danforthdesigns.com/

[Hambo]

I like 9mm 365s, but I really like a .380 P365 with a thumb safety. 11-13 rounds of the Haggard tested Fed HS Deep :cool:

[breakingtime91]

Is that a common problem with HST and Gold Dot? To be honest, all the other less mainstream options are pretty irrelevant to me.

Both gold dot and hst can fail to expand without enough velocity. I tend to go with shorter that 3.6 inch barrel I run a 124 of 124+p

[Noah]

Both gold dot and hst can fail to expand without enough velocity. I tend to go with shorter that 3.6 inch barrel I run a 124 of 124+p

All I stock is 124 standard pressure Gold Dot. Like psalms said, I obsess over expansion a lot less than I once did!

[D-der]

Shot placement with adequate penetration generally trumps large and shallow

[45dotACP]

I'm not trying to throw poo poo on any ideas of terminal performance out of 9mm out of short barrels, BUT, there's a TON of folks on this forum who happily carry 5 shot 38s loaded with standard pressure wadcutters. Not sure why we would obsess over slightly less performance out of a duty-ish pistol.

(stares over at my 2" 856 with 158gr SWCs)

"nuh uh"



Nah, in all seriousness...I tend to like the 124gr +P uh...whatever it is...HST? Gold Dot? Critical Duty? IDK, it's really whatever's in stock in the LGS.

[Mitch]

I'm not trying to throw poo poo on any ideas of terminal performance out of 9mm out of short barrels, BUT, there's a TON of folks on this forum who happily carry 5 shot 38s loaded with standard pressure wadcutters. Not sure why we would obsess over slightly less performance out of a duty-ish pistol.

Just speaking for myself here, but happily would be a pretty big overstatement. I rarely carry a 38, when I do it’s with wadcutters because hollow points are spotty at best out of a sub 2” barrel. So it’s the best of a bad situation.

To put it another way, I don’t want to put a bullet that won’t preform well in a given gun. So it makes sense to avoid that situation in something like a G26 just as much (to me anyway). Am I venturing off into nerd shit territory? Yeah, maybe. But better is better and if there’s better options why would I pick something else when it’s my choice what I feed my gun?

[David S.]

Today I was reminded that 4" is the breaking point for enough barrel to shoot common 9mm duty loads well. Anything less than 4" requires greater care in selection of ammunition.

Troll level: Master.


:) :)

[GJM]

Fixed it for him.


Today I was reminded that 4" is the breaking point for enough barrel to shoot common 9mm duty loads well. Anything less than a 4" barrel with iron sights, requires greater care in sight alignment so as to place said bullet accurately.

[John Hearne]

What happened?

Nothing happened. Just read it in another discussion off-forum about the topic.

[4mykaren]

M&P compact
APX A1 compact