M1 Carbine Knowledge

[SW CQB 45]

In the coming weeks, a close friend is going to give me a M1 Carbine to sell for him.

It was given to him yearsss ago, due to a death of a family member.

I am told this person (his uncle) would buy guns and never shoot them. I have sold quite a few of the guns he obtained from his uncle.

Is there anyone on board who could give me knowledge (or provide direction) if I have a true, complete M1 Carbine, or I have piecemealed mongrel or a POS import.

I know it will come with some accessories but wont know anything till I have it in front of me.

I did some googling and I came across some forums, but wanted to ask first.

thanks in advance

[Lon]

In the coming weeks, a close friend is going to give me a M1 Carbine to sell for him.

It was given to him yearsss ago, due to a death of a family member.

I am told this person (his uncle) would buy guns and never shoot them. I have sold quite a few of the guns he obtained from his uncle.

Is there anyone on board who could give me knowledge (or provide direction) if I have a true, complete M1 Carbine, or I have piecemealed mongrel or a POS import.

I know it will come with some accessories but wont know anything till I have it in front of me.

I did some googling and I came across some forums, but wanted to ask first.

thanks in advance

Without seeing pictures it will be impossible to really give you much info. Between military production and commercial production I think there are over a dozen possible manufacturers of the M1.

Here’s a good place to start, I think. http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/serialnumbers.html

[Borderland]

I learned just about everything I know about M1 carbines from the CMP forum. It took awhile because the collector value is yuge, even for arsenal rebuilds. Even original parts are collectable.

Three types or conditions.

1. Original unmolested. Very rare.
2. Arsenal rebuilds. Very common
3. Collector rebuilds using original parts. Common

The only way to know the condition is to strip the carbine and ID the parts. After you do that you probably still won't know the difference between 1 and 3. Probably not an issue because 1 is extremely rare. #3 rebuilds them and claim them to be #1, not unlike 1911 scammers. Some #3 just sell them as correct without the claim original.

If you post pics on CMP you will immediately get low ball offers from #3's.

Selling on an auction website would get you a fair price.

Until pics we don't have a lot to go on. I have some limited knowledge and some references. I would be willing to share what I know.

[SW CQB 45]

thank you all.

when I get it, I will post some images.

My friend uses me, since I have a good history of sales, and I have access to an FFL.

I am glad I asked here first.

[Lon]

I imagine there’s an M1 collector or 2 here on p-f.com that may be interested if it’s a good carbine for a good deal.

[Trooper224]

The issue that complicates evaluating the M1 Carbine is the nature of its manufacture. Collectors look for "correct" guns. Meaning, all the parts come from the same manufacturer as it left the factory. All Winchester parts, all Springfield, etc. This did not occur with the M1 Carbine. Subcontractors were used from the very beginning. I have a National Postal Meter Carbine made in 1943. It has a barrel made by Buffalo Arms. BA was a Subcontractor for NPM, so this is actually "correct" for an NPM Carbine. This makes it a real rabbit hole when determining valuation. The casual observer may assume it's an overhaul when it's not. Most Carbines recieved the late/post war modification of a barrel band with a bayonet lug and an adjustable rear sight. Not primo on the collectable scale, but not incorrect either. If it's an actual GI Carbine in decent shape, it should be worth a grand easy.

[fatdog]

CMP forum has a lot of knowledgeable people willing to help.

A lot of carbines were reimported from place like Korea and have the importers stamping, sometimes not so visible under the stock on the barrel.

So many were rebuilt at the arsenals after WWII or Korea and became mixmasters in terms of parts, many of those CMP sold the last 25 years were in that category. They were indeed GI issued guns but as many as 5-6 different manufacturers as a result of the arsenal rebuild process.

Then there were generational engineering changes as WW II went on, e.g. flat bolts Vs round bolts and on and on.

As Trooper224 articulated, mixed manufacturer parts can be correct and original in many cases, depending on which of the contractor built the gun in the first place.

[Borderland]

I know the casual owner or someone just looking to sell one won't go down the rabbit hole but here is a rabbit hole if you're interested.

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/restoring-an-m1-carbine-part-1/485927

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/restoring-an-m1-carbine-part-2/485982#:~:text=Safety,installed%20early%20and%20in to%201943.

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/restoring-an-m1-carbine-part-3/486053

I purchased two Inlands. One I sold because the barrel was used up. The 2nd one had a newer barrel. I rebuilt that one and shoot it.

[Malamute]

I havent seen it specifically addressed yet, but the commercially made guns are a different animal as to value and reliability. Plainfield, Universal, Iver Johnson, Auto Ordnance, and one or two or more others rode the coat tails of the carbines popularity. National Ordnance I believe used commercial receivers with GI parts, I dont know where they fit into the overall picture.

If its a commercial gun, be prepared for a much lower value.

[SW CQB 45]

thanks to everyone for the info.

He told me it's a Winchester.

When I get it, I will post pics.

[fatdog]

Winchester receivers demand slightly higher prices even if it is a rebuild. I sold off my CMP purchased Winchester at the same time I sold 2 Inlands a few years ago and got 25% more for it, even though they were all in comparable condition.

[Darth_Uno]

US gave a ton of them to Greece and Korea, and then Blue Sky imported them back. A dead giveway is obviously that it says BLUE SKY on the barrel. Another, but not to my knowledge 100% certain, way to tell is if it has a bayonet lug. Those were often added by foreign armorers. The original USGI M1 carbines didn't have them, which were mostly what we gave away (although later ones did).

Receiver manufacturer can vary but some are worth more than others, imported or otherwise.

Not usually worth terribly much unless it was not imported and has all original (or at least USGI) parts.

You now know as much as I do. I learned all this when my grandpa passed, and I got his and did some research.

[Tokarev]

https://www.wideners.com/blog/m1-carbine/

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[SW CQB 45]

https://www.wideners.com/blog/m1-carbine/

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

cool information!

[Trooper224]

US gave a ton of them to Greece and Korea, and then Blue Sky imported them back. A dead giveway is obviously that it says BLUE SKY on the barrel. Another, but not to my knowledge 100% certain, way to tell is if it has a bayonet lug. Those were often added by foreign armorers. The original USGI M1 carbines didn't have them, which were mostly what we gave away (although later ones did).

Receiver manufacturer can vary but some are worth more than others, imported or otherwise.

Not usually worth terribly much unless it was not imported and has all original (or at least USGI) parts.

You now know as much as I do. I learned all this when my grandpa passed, and I got his and did some research.

This is incorrect. The barrel band with a bayonet lug was a very late war modification by the US, not foreign countries. Very few of them saw service during WWII. The mod was incorporated at the same time as the adjustable rear sight. The non-lug band the original two position rear sight is the classic WWII configuration, and prized by collectors.

[SW CQB 45]

I got it today. It's a Winchester (date internet search shows mid 1944) and there are no other markings to indicate an import.

He had a spare stock, one mag, some ammo. Its missing the rear sight. The owner ran some rounds through it, and I wonder if the sight fell off then. He said it smoked heavily when he shot it. I told him it probably had some cosmoline from storage.

I suspect it has been refinished at some point. The barrel does not have any finish. The bore is very shiny.

I took it apart and surprisingly it's not in bad condition for the age. There is some rough exterior rust/pitting on the muzzle and on the edge of the bolt.

When I put it back together, the action seemed kind of springy at the rear of the stock. I kept trying to reposition but its a light springy. The barrel band was slightly twisted as the bolt threads did not line up with the hole. I used some pliers to untwist it.

what you think, all original? refinished? Around the Winchester, seems very pitty.
Estimated sale price if possible.

https://i.imgur.com/Jd32j3ch.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hn87ArEh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lylHbcvh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/idIaAwSh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pod5cDKh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hJVNcX3h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8eaVuBWh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/2mCH3aYh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GL9pInih.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/efsFr7Ih.jpg

[SW CQB 45]

Questions

In relation to the missing rear sight and obvious stake marks that failed....

is it the same front sight to be used with the various rear sights that were available? (clearer: does the front sight indicate the rear sight)

where is the best place to buy an original rear sight that does not break the bank?

the same goes for an original oil bottle so the sling can be attached correctly.

Not looking for new or perfect, but to match the carbine.



TIA