An airplane crashed in my city and now I have a WML question

[KevH]

My department issues the Surefire X300A Ultra which is a 1000 lumen WML for pistols, Surefire Scout Lights for rifles, and the Surefire Forend lights for shotguns and MP5's. We allow the Streamlight lights as well if you want a TLR7 or TLR1.

I've been around for a few minutes so I remember when the M3 came out and guys were carrying them in a pouch on their belt and sticking them on for building searches. I started carrying a X200 back in 2007, then an X300. For the past few years since I've primarily been in an admin role so I either don't carry a light on my gun or if I do it's a TLR7 on a Glock 19 (I'm tired of suitcase sized holsters). If I were a beat cop I'd probably be carrying the issued X300 Ultra. I haven't been to a low-light class other than the ones we teach in-house since 2014, so I might be out of touch.

A couple weeks ago a small plane crashed onto a busy street at 11:00 am in my city (we have a small airport) with the plane striking a car waiting at a stop light (pilot was killed) and pretty much tied up everyone on patrol. I threw on a uniform and went out to shag calls for service and ended up teaming up with one of our baby cops (he was born in 2001). I had given him ammo a few weeks earlier to attend a "Low Light" class a neighboring PD was hosting at their indoor range. He paid to attend the class himself and did it on his own time so I don't know much about it.

I asked him about the class and he did his best to try to relay some things he learned. What shocked me was he said, "Our lights aren't bright enough." He said he wants to switch the X300T and thinks the department should do the same (I'll forgive him for not understanding gov procurement).

I was somewhat stunned and probably gave him a confused blank face before asking him (inquisitively and not sarcastically) how it wasn't bright enough. He had a hard time trying to explain other than something about using the light to blind an adversary. I brought up optic washout and dealing with white walls in building searches (something that had presented an issue with very bright lights in the past) and he didn't really have an answer.

I'm sure the dynamic of our conversation was weird for him because he's a young probationary super newb being put on the spot by the Training Manager. I don't want to be dismissive of him and like I said earlier, I haven't been through an outside entity low-light class in ten years. He paid his own money and used his own time to attend a class, which is something I encourage. I'm just honestly a bit befuddled by what he learned.

For those of you who have more recently attended low-light training (white light...not NV):

What am I missing?
Is the X300U now considered not bright enough?
What is the current thought process on WML usage and has training changed in the past 10 years?

[HCM]

My department issues the Surefire X300A Ultra which is a 1000 lumen WML for pistols, Surefire Scout Lights for rifles, and the Surefire Forend lights for shotguns and MP5's. We allow the Streamlight lights as well if you want a TLR7 or TLR1.

I've been around for a few minutes so I remember when the M3 came out and guys were carrying them in a pouch on their belt and sticking them on for building searches. I started carrying a X200 back in 2007, then an X300. For the past few years since I've primarily been in an admin role so I either don't carry a light on my gun or if I do it's a TLR7 on a Glock 19 (I'm tired of suitcase sized holsters). If I were a beat cop I'd probably be carrying the issued X300 Ultra. I haven't been to a low-light class other than the ones we teach in-house since 2014, so I might be out of touch.

A couple weeks ago a small plane crashed onto a busy street at 11:00 am in my city (we have a small airport) with the plane striking a car waiting at a stop light (pilot was killed) and pretty much tied up everyone on patrol. I threw on a uniform and went out to shag calls for service and ended up teaming up with one of our baby cops (he was born in 2001). I had given him ammo a few weeks earlier to attend a "Low Light" class a neighboring PD was hosting at their indoor range. He paid to attend the class himself and did it on his own time so I don't know much about it.

I asked him about the class and he did his best to try to relay some things he learned. What shocked me was he said, "Our lights aren't bright enough." He said he wants to switch the X300T and thinks the department should do the same (I'll forgive him for not understanding gov procurement).

I was somewhat stunned and probably gave him a confused blank face before asking him (inquisitively and not sarcastically) how it wasn't bright enough. He had a hard time trying to explain other than something about using the light to blind an adversary. I brought up optic washout and dealing with white walls in building searches (something that had presented an issue with very bright lights in the past) and he didn't really have an answer.

I'm sure the dynamic of our conversation was weird for him because he's a young probationary super newb being put on the spot by the Training Manager. I don't want to be dismissive of him and like I said earlier, I haven't been through an outside entity low-light class in ten years. He paid his own money and used his own time to attend a class, which is something I encourage. I'm just honestly a bit befuddled by what he learned.

For those of you who have more recently attended low-light training (white light...not NV):

What am I missing?
Is the X300U now considered not bright enough?
What is the current thought process on WML usage and has training changed in the past 10 years?

The X300U is bright enough in terms of raw Lumens.

However, there has been a move to more candela which is essentially throw / ability to penetrate barriers like tinted windows or ability to light up a dark area on the opposite side of a lit area (I.e. the “photonic barriers” in bro science terms).

Essentially more candela gives you a more effective / useable light in some practical applications.

The trend towards more candela vs simply raw Lumens seems to have started with Mod Light and Cloud Defensive as their 18650 and 18350 batteries made more candela viable.

The Turbo series lights from Surefire are SF’s response and are legit. They can run on 123s or the rechargeable batteries but to get the full performance you need to run the rechargeables, at least for the carbine lights.

They basically give you both spill (Lumens) and throw (candela) instead of having to choose one or the other as in the past.

[TCB]

It’s bright enough, for some things. In mixed lighting (streetlights, headlights, etc…) trying to get light into a dark space that is past a lighted space “photonic barriers” it just doesn’t have enough “ass” (throw) to do it. The X300T is much better for all these situations and still has adequate spill to give you a lot of visual information without having to search around an area with your light to gain SA. I still carry a 1000 lumen X300U at work but…I’m currently a full time FI. If/when I go back to the field I’ll be upgrading to an X300T. Also, if you are using a red dot on your pistol (in many ways extending your effective range) the extra throw will become even more useful.

[Cory]

During my breif LE time my agency issued me a TLR1. I used my own X300T instead. The TLR1 didn't have enough distance when in rural areas. The hotspot was far brighter, and the spill was nearly as good. While the X300U has more lumens, it has less candela.

My issued TLR1s vs X300T.

https://youtu.be/08hpoMrtNJI?si=dPor-psQJ64MDSnL

Within structures, baseboard lighting or umbrella lighting still worked fine. I liked the option of more light, and further light.

Then again, most got on fine with TLR1s with half dead batteries. A pistol WML isn't used nearly as much as a handheld right?

If the kid is a go getter, or a ranger joe type, he could always buy his own 300T and use it. The other guys wouldn't tell the difference looking at it, and he'd have more light when he wants it.

[GJM]

I bet whoever pre flighted that aircraft wished they had a brighter light.

[Utm]

My department issues the Surefire X300A Ultra which is a 1000 lumen WML for pistols, Surefire Scout Lights for rifles, and the Surefire Forend lights for shotguns and MP5's. We allow the Streamlight lights as well if you want a TLR7 or TLR1.

I've been around for a few minutes so I remember when the M3 came out and guys were carrying them in a pouch on their belt and sticking them on for building searches. I started carrying a X200 back in 2007, then an X300. For the past few years since I've primarily been in an admin role so I either don't carry a light on my gun or if I do it's a TLR7 on a Glock 19 (I'm tired of suitcase sized holsters). If I were a beat cop I'd probably be carrying the issued X300 Ultra. I haven't been to a low-light class other than the ones we teach in-house since 2014, so I might be out of touch.

A couple weeks ago a small plane crashed onto a busy street at 11:00 am in my city (we have a small airport) with the plane striking a car waiting at a stop light (pilot was killed) and pretty much tied up everyone on patrol. I threw on a uniform and went out to shag calls for service and ended up teaming up with one of our baby cops (he was born in 2001). I had given him ammo a few weeks earlier to attend a "Low Light" class a neighboring PD was hosting at their indoor range. He paid to attend the class himself and did it on his own time so I don't know much about it.

I asked him about the class and he did his best to try to relay some things he learned. What shocked me was he said, "Our lights aren't bright enough." He said he wants to switch the X300T and thinks the department should do the same (I'll forgive him for not understanding gov procurement).

I was somewhat stunned and probably gave him a confused blank face before asking him (inquisitively and not sarcastically) how it wasn't bright enough. He had a hard time trying to explain other than something about using the light to blind an adversary. I brought up optic washout and dealing with white walls in building searches (something that had presented an issue with very bright lights in the past) and he didn't really have an answer.

I'm sure the dynamic of our conversation was weird for him because he's a young probationary super newb being put on the spot by the Training Manager. I don't want to be dismissive of him and like I said earlier, I haven't been through an outside entity low-light class in ten years. He paid his own money and used his own time to attend a class, which is something I encourage. I'm just honestly a bit befuddled by what he learned.

For those of you who have more recently attended low-light training (white light...not NV):

What am I missing?
Is the X300U now considered not bright enough?
What is the current thought process on WML usage and has training changed in the past 10 years?
For me personally it does not have enough candela. The turbo is my preferred choice on patrol because it has more of a punch

[RevolverRob]

Short Answer: Yes, you need better lights.

Longer Answer: Not more lumens or more white-blue light. You need more candela and a warm white light.

More candela increases throw and gives power to "push" light into dark places.

Warm white light helps when you're inside a building and it hits a bright white wall or even a mirror.

The warmth also increases color rendering index. I have not yet found a good study, but I suspect that better color rendering improves object recognition accuracy. Certainly, it does not harm the situation and offers the other advantage inside a building.

---

But that's an oversimplification to a degree. Realistically, the light you need inside a building is different from outside. From working around a car is different than walking in the woods, etc.

That said 700+ lumens, 75000+ candela, and a beam in the 3000K temp range range - would work well in most instances.

Unfortunately, no one is really making a high candela, high lumen, warm white, pistol light. You can get them in long gun and handheld, but not pistol. If I had a sufficiently large department to tap - I'd hit up a company like Cloud or Modlite and have them make me a set of rifle, pistol, and handhelds that all activated the same way and had slightly different specs for the tool.

[paherne]

You need to host Cougar Mountain Solutions Low=light Instructor Class taught by Erick Gelhaus. Photonic barriers, your City has them. I'm biased; I helped teach the first class. Seriously, give Erick a call or email and he will explain. Short answer: buy the 300Turbos. More light is almost always better and the reflections off white walls thing is solved by technique.

[DMF13]

I was issued a TLR-1HL for my rifle, and bought one for my pistol, shortly before the X300T came out. I was forced to use a TLR-7, on the pistol, for a while, but we're now allowed to use other lights on pistols, and I'm back to the TLR-1HL.

While the X300T does offer much better throw, the TLR-1HL, at 1000 lumens/20,000 candela, is much better than my previous X300,, and even that TLR-1HL would outperform the X300U, which is only 11,000 candela.

[TGS]

What am I missing?
Is the X300U now considered not bright enough?

The way I look at this issue is that the capabilities of lights is constantly evolving.

What was best available 10 years ago has been eclipsed. Buy the X300Ts now, as they're more capable, but realize that in "X" number of years, those too should also be updated, as something better would have come out.

I don't necessarily think it's an emergency. They're still more capable than if your guys were equipped with legacy X300s or X200s. It's not like you're negligent in equipping them...but, there will always be something better. Time marches on.

[Casey]

For context, I use WMLs as an average guy in a concealed carry application.

Second what pretty much everyone has said about the value of a higher candela light in settings with mixed lighting, window tinting, etc. When carrying a WML, these days it's either an X300T or Modlite PL350 (I prefer the latter for its rechargable battery and better balance of spill/throw, though the former is slightly shorter and therefore a bit more comfortable worn AIWB).

Prior to the existence of the Modlite offering, I used X300Us, and before that, TLR-1 HLs. I used the X300U in a couple different low-light classes. It worked well enough on the square range, but that was in ideal conditions with minimal ambient light. Likewise, inside a pitch black shoothouse, it worked quite well. Inside a well-illuminated shoothouse, I experimented with using the X300U to "blind" a role player during force-on-force; the role player reported it had no effect on him. Inside a shoothouse illuminated moderately-well by ambient daytime light streaming in through the windows, I found the TLR-1 HL provided insufficient illumination to PID a target about ten yards away—the light just didn't have enough power to overcome the ambient light (granted, it was a 2D paper target and a role player holding a weapon might have been more easily identified).

At this point, my X300U lives on a dedicated nightstand gun because I do appreciate the diffuse lighting inside my house where my longest shot is 12 yards. Out and about, where I'm more likely to encounter mixed lighting conditions, it's a Modlite or Turbo on my gun. If I were carrying in a professional application, I'd absolutely be carrying Modlite or a Turbo.

The TLR-1 HL and X300 Ultra were great lights in their day when they were the best thing on the market, but time marches on.

[Default.mp3]

The warmth also increases color rendering index.There is no real relationship between temperature and CRI. An obvious example would be sodium lamps, which typically are in the 2000 K range, yet also have CRIs well below 50, which is substantially worse than mainstream LEDs. On the flip side, there are many LEDs in the 5000 K to 6500 K range that can have CRIs well above 90. Hell, natural sunlight is typically 5000 K, while daylight in general can range from 4000 K to 6500 K, and will have a CRI of 100.

[Rex G]

This has been an educational read. Thanks!

Having been retired from LEO-ing for six years, I have not been actively following the WML trends, but now that I know and understand the advantages of the X300T, over my X300U, upgrading would be a best practice.

[Tokarev]

During my breif LE time my agency issued me a TLR1. I used my own X300T instead. The TLR1 didn't have enough distance when in rural areas. The hotspot was far brighter, and the spill was nearly as good. While the X300U has more lumens, it has less candela.

My issued TLR1s vs X300T.

https://youtu.be/08hpoMrtNJI?si=dPor-psQJ64MDSnL

Within structures, baseboard lighting or umbrella lighting still worked fine. I liked the option of more light, and further light.

Then again, most got on fine with TLR1s with half dead batteries. A pistol WML isn't used nearly as much as a handheld right?

If the kid is a go getter, or a ranger joe type, he could always buy his own 300T and use it. The other guys wouldn't tell the difference looking at it, and he'd have more light when he wants it.I sure wish Streamlight would make a TLR-1 HC. Their version of the 300T.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[Noah]

I sure wish Streamlight would make a TLR-1 HC. Their version of the 300T.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

I'm sure they will sooner than later. The brand new HLX Pro is 50,000 Candela

[RennBaer]

I'm sure they will sooner than later. The brand new HLX Pro is 50,000 Candela

The regular HLX was also updated to the newer 50k candela head.

[Noah]

The regular HLX was also updated to the newer 50k candela head.

Oh? That's good news. Not seeing that on the site

[Default.mp3]

Oh? That's good news. Not seeing that on the siteI think the only difference between the HL-X and HL-X Pro is the tailcap; the Pro comes with a combination clicky/tapeswitch tailcap, while the non-Pro you have to choose between the clicky and the tapeswitch (though the kit comes with both).

[Erick Gelhaus]

...

For those of you who have more recently attended low-light training (white light...not NV):

What am I missing?
Is the X300U now considered not bright enough?
What is the current thought process on WML usage and has training changed in the past 10 years?

Hopefully you got the answers you needed Kevin. If not, I'll be in your immediate area from next Thursday on for a few days.


You need to host Cougar Mountain Solutions Low=light Instructor Class taught by Erick Gelhaus. Photonic barriers, your City has them. I'm biased; I helped teach the first class. Seriously, give Erick a call or email and he will explain. Short answer: buy the 300Turbos. More light is almost always better and the reflections off white walls thing is solved by technique.

Thank you, my friend!

[KevH]

Hopefully you got the answers you needed Kevin. If not, I'll be in your immediate area from next Thursday on for a few days.



Thank you, my friend!

Hi Erick. I think I have a general idea, but honestly have been too busy to dive deeper into it since I posted on here. I'll shoot you a text later today or tomorrow.