No penalty for non shooting actions

[CraigS]

Or some phrase like that. Yesterday we had a double swinger activated by pulling the dummy toward you which had a rope to the prop that held the swingers. The swingers were NOT hidden behind a barrel or anything at rest or at any other portion of their swing. So one shooter, who I have a ton of respect for, made his three shots and then pulled the dummy. (per the stage description one swinger needed one shot the other swinger needed 2 shots and they were weighted differently so they would swing at different speed to separate them). I asked how that was OK and he brought up the rule on his phone. I told him I had no problem w/ him using that rule to his advantage but thought the rule was really dumb. He said he agrees but he had come across it at a regional match so filed it for future use. Since the two targets were perfectly aligned at rest his 3 shots gave him 3 hits on each swinger from the pass throughs. The situation could be avoided by the common hide the swingers behind a barrel but they were not. Thoughts?

[Lon]

Poor stage design and stage instructions. But if you give me the same situation and it’s within the rules, I’d do the same thing.

Years ago I shot a State IDPA match down at TDI. One of the stages was a SHO, then perform a mandatory reload and the shoot SHO again. There was nothing in the stage instructions that said a word about what could/could not be done with your weak hand while you were shooting SHO. I clarified that with the RO and was told I couldn’t touch any portion of my strong hand/arm, but that’s was it. So, I made ready and at the beep I drew my pistol and a spare mag at the same time. Had the spare mag held up near my sternum. Shot the first part, reloaded REALLY fast and finished up. The RO told me I couldn’t do that and talked about penalizing me with the dreaded FTDR penalty. After a discussion about the stage instructions and what I asked him, he let it go.

[Jim Watson]

The situation could be avoided by the common hide the swingers behind a barrel

That says it all.
IDPA no longer has a FTDR and can't require non-shooting actions on the clock, so the setup has to maneuver the shooter into the desired activities.


I am seeing a lot of tricksy stuff with "vision barriers." The MD lays it out to inconvenience the shooter, the shooter does a ballet step to game it.

[Mirolynmonbro]

I think he'd still get a PE for only engaging one of those swinging targets.

3.2.2.1 A cardboard target is deemed to have been engaged when the required number of shots for that target have
been fired at the target.

He only engaged the first target

Edit again - I think I'm wrong

[1911Nut]

I shoot a lot of IDPA matches and am fortunate that the club where I shoot does a good job of stage design and management. The one thing I don't like about IDPA is that typically there is almost as much time spent discussing trickery and debating how clever one can be at bending the rules than there is shooting.

[CraigS]

I think he'd still get a PE for only engaging one of those swinging targets.

3.2.2.1 A cardboard target is deemed to have been engaged when the required number of shots for that target have
been fired at the target.

He only engaged the first target

Edit again - I think I'm wrong
Yes. Further discussion I asked why he did 3 shots. 2 shots would have given 2 hits in one target and 2 hits, one more than needed, in the second target. He explained that the section of the stage required 3 shots total so shooting just twice would have violated the stage description.

[CraigS]

I shoot a lot of IDPA matches and am fortunate that the club where I shoot does a good job of stage design and management.
Me- Yes the 2 clubs I shoot w/ usually do good jobs. But I have also been slightly involved in setting up stages and have come across situations where it is real hard to think of every possibility while you are doing the design. Another stage of this match my squad happened to be the first to shoot one of the stages. We saw a potential problem and I dug out a sharpy and made a small change in the description that we all agreed would make things clearer for the rest of the squads.
The one thing I don't like about IDPA is that typically there is almost as much time spent discussing trickery and debating how clever one can be at bending the rules than there is shooting.
Me- Yep I see that sometimes too. Fortunately not too often. Also, at 75 my brain needs all the exercise it can get, so thinking and talking things through w/ better shooters than I helps.:D