Taurus Is Making Guns in the USA

[FrankB]

jetfire
I just came across the video below. @ 5 min, one person assembles and “hand fits” the Executive grade revolvers, and @ 8:30 min they show the warranty department. They claim that less than .5% of guns come back for warranty in the first year. They’re also making some of their firearms entirely in the USA, and working on getting all of them made here. I’m impressed!
Taurus seems to have given Bainbridge, GA an economic boost. That’s in the final minute.


https://youtu.be/z3nmBiDiY64?si=LhAcZRfqTImBYrGC

[fatdog]

..claim that less than .5% of guns come back for warranty in the first year.

That sounds really good. Then I wonder if more than 5% of the guns they sell see more than 100 rounds in their entire lifetime or at least during the ownership of the first buyer. The same is true for many low end guns of the other majors.

[DDTSGM]

That sounds really good. Then I wonder if more than 5% of the guns they sell see more than 100 rounds in their entire lifetime or at least during the ownership of the first buyer. The same is true for many low end guns of the other majors.

That is probably true for most firearms. I wonder if moving manufacturing to the U.S. is going to raise their prices?

There is a legit market for lower price firearms among folks who live in sketchy areas they can't afford to move away from.

When I'd read the Armed Citizen column in the NRA magazines I'd often wonder what manufacturer made the firearms used for self-defense. I'd bet that the majority would be brands many would scoff at.

[lee n. field]

jetfire
I just came across the video below. @ 5 min, one person assembles and “hand fits” the Executive grade revolvers, and @ 8:30 min they show the warranty department. They claim that less than .5% of guns come back for warranty in the first year. They’re also making some of their firearms entirely in the USA, and working on getting all of them made here. I’m impressed!
Taurus seems to have given Bainbridge, GA an economic boost. That’s in the final minute.


That's been the case for a while. I think the Spectrum (small .380, no longer made) was a totally made in USA gun.

I suspect it's to make the guns that otherwise wouldn't pass the "sporting purposes" test.

[jetfire]

Hey guys! Just to clear up some things from that video - the Executive Grade guns are made entirely in Brazil, but they are assembled in a "one gun, one gunsmith" fashion, where each individual gun is built by hand by a single trained gunsmith.

We do manufacture entire firearms in the US, as well as perform final assembly and machining/conversions on some Brazil products. The move to Bainbridge has been great for the community there, but it's also allowed us to expand our internal QC, our warranty/repair section, and our customer service operation. However, I don't want to take away from the modernization that's been going in Brazil, either - none of the Bainbridge stuff would have happened if there hadn't been a titanic culture shift and investment in new machining, training, and modern manufacturing techniques in Brazil. The days of American QC rejecting entire shipments of Brazilian guns are long over, and as mentioned our error/return rate is will within the industry standard at this point.

We're actually working with Guns.Com right in post production of a second video like this one that highlights our Brazil facilities.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Thank for posting that video. I had literally no idea Taurus was spinning up real manufacturing operations in the USA.

[357]

Hopefully the quality too.

[DLWinner]

They will still probably suck….

[Jester560]

I have a GX4 that has over 2500 rounds down range with no issues. I even shoot it in IDPA matches.

[jetfire]

They will still probably suck….

Which Taurus that has been produced since the turnover in Brazil and the move to Bainbridge do you have personal experience with sucking?

[Polecat]

I have given up on them, sent 3 of 3 of my last .22s back. They fixed one, the other two were so out of spec they had to replace them!

[fastbolt]

It would be a nice thing if Taurus firearms could shake its previous spotty reputation, but that means more people would have to be willing to give them a try. ;)

I saw only a small number of their pistols and revolvers come through our range for use as off-duty weapons, but they all passed functioning inspections and live-fire. One of the .44MAG revolvers was bought by a member of the range staff, and the revolver armorer of that time opened it up and did a couple very minor adjustments (could've been done during assembly and fitting), and then pronounced it okay.

I saw the model 2-856EX39CH Executive Grade is on the CA Roster, and I'd be tempted to give it a try to see how well it withstands a steady diet of +P loads. 25 ounces seems like a nice weight for a 6-shot .38SPL, being 2oz lighter than a 3" Ruger SP101. I think the 3" barrel would help make it 'service-worthy', since it was a popular barrel for LE plainclothes revolver users in the older revolver days. While I wouldn't pay $700 for one, I might be tempted at $500. Have to wait and see how things go this year ... and see how this new line fairs in the hands of more actual users.

[jetfire]

It would be a nice thing if Taurus firearms could shake its previous spotty reputation, but that means more people would have to be willing to give them a try. ;)

I saw only a small number of their pistols and revolvers come through our range for use as off-duty weapons, but they all passed functioning inspections and live-fire. One of the .44MAG revolvers was bought by a member of the range staff, and the revolver armorer of that time opened it up and did a couple very minor adjustments (could've been done during assembly and fitting), and then pronounced it okay.

I saw the model 2-856EX39CH Executive Grade is on the CA Roster, and I'd be tempted to give it a try to see how well it withstands a steady diet of +P loads. 25 ounces seems like a nice weight for a 6-shot .38SPL, being 2oz lighter than a 3" Ruger SP101. I think the 3" barrel would help make it 'service-worthy', since it was a popular barrel for LE plainclothes revolver users in the older revolver days. While I wouldn't pay $700 for one, I might be tempted at $500. Have to wait and see how things go this year ... and see how this new line fairs in the hands of more actual users.

The Executive Grade lineup has been around for a couple of years. I don't shoot mine much, so it's only got 1,333 rounds on it, but that's a pretty decent sample size. I mean it's nothing like the 10,000 round Taurus 82 I have, but the revolver lineup is pretty robust.

[fastbolt]

The Executive Grade lineup has been around for a couple of years. I don't shoot mine much, so it's only got 1,333 rounds on it, but that's a pretty decent sample size. I mean it's nothing like the 10,000 round Taurus 82 I have, but the revolver lineup is pretty robust.

Thanks.

Now that I'm retired and no longer serving as an instructor and armorer, I rather doubt I'll be shooting nearly as much in any new guns I buy going forward. Not having access to a free ammunition inventory is one factor. ;)

One of the reasons I began adding to my collection of 5-shot revolvers was to keep spreading out the range use and total round count from going too high on any particular snub. I doubt I've fired more than 3-5K through any one particular snub, so it's not like I'd think to wear out any new wheelgun, especially since I got out of reloading some years ago, and ammunition has become more than a little expensive. ;)

10K rounds is pretty respectable for a smallish .38SPL revolver, especially if it involves a steady diet of +P. :) Do you mind me asking how the flame cutting may have affected the B/C gap over that time, meaning the normal erosion of the cylinder face and rear of the barrel opening the B/C gap? How about any end shake? Have to stretch the yoke during that time? I may have been trained as a S&W revolver armorer, and have the standard tools and a small supply of parts for my snubs, but that doesn't mean I want to have to repair them anymore nowadays. :cool:

[jetfire]

Thanks.

Now that I'm retired and no longer serving as an instructor and armorer, I rather doubt I'll be shooting nearly as much in any new guns I buy going forward. Not having access to a free ammunition inventory is one factor. ;)

One of the reasons I began adding to my collection of 5-shot revolvers was to keep spreading out the range use and total round count from going too high on any particular snub. I doubt I've fired more than 3-5K through any one particular snub, so it's not like I'd think to wear out any new wheelgun, especially since I got out of reloading some years ago, and ammunition has become more than a little expensive. ;)

10K rounds is pretty respectable for a smallish .38SPL revolver, especially if it involves a steady diet of +P. :) Do you mind me asking how the flame cutting may have affected the B/C gap over that time, meaning the normal erosion of the cylinder face and rear of the barrel opening the B/C gap? How about any end shake? Have to stretch the yoke during that time? I may have been trained as a S&W revolver armorer, and have the standard tools and a small supply of parts for my snubs, but that doesn't mean I want to have to repair them anymore nowadays. :cool:

Quick note: the Taurus 82 is a medium frame revolver, more of a K/L frame size. That’s the gun I did 10k on.

As far as damage, I gauged it with feeler gauges vs a sample that had only fired 250 rounds and the cylinder gap was the same, and I didn’t have a feeler gauge small enough to measure flame cutting.

[CSW]

Nothing but good things to say about the 856 Defender 3" I purchased 2 years ago. An accurate, well running revolver.

[gato naranja]

Nothing but good things to say about the 856 Defender 3" I purchased 2 years ago. An accurate, well running revolver.

I said "nie wieder" to Brazilian firearms after my Great Braztech 92 debacle (I tried to recapture lightning; it didn't work), but some of the small-frame revolving Taurii have basic configurations that are appealing to me.

[Hambo]

as mentioned our error/return rate is will within the industry standard at this point.


The industry standard appears to be at an all time low. What I would love to see is the industry as a whole trying to do better. While a return rate may be small, at best it's an inconvenience to the customer. If you told me that Taurus has better rates of return than Colt, S&W, Ruger, and Beretta (who have sunk to new or not so new lows), you'd have my attention.

[sparkyv]

Hey, jetfire. I would like to see Taurus provide better customer service for folks who can and do perform their own firearms repairs. Requirng to send a firearm to the Mothership and waiting weeks and weeks for its return when only a simple replacement part is needed is sophomoric...a non-starter for me.


Hey guys! Just to clear up some things from that video - the Executive Grade guns are made entirely in Brazil, but they are assembled in a "one gun, one gunsmith" fashion, where each individual gun is built by hand by a single trained gunsmith.

We do manufacture entire firearms in the US, as well as perform final assembly and machining/conversions on some Brazil products. The move to Bainbridge has been great for the community there, but it's also allowed us to expand our internal QC, our warranty/repair section, and our customer service operation. However, I don't want to take away from the modernization that's been going in Brazil, either - none of the Bainbridge stuff would have happened if there hadn't been a titanic culture shift and investment in new machining, training, and modern manufacturing techniques in Brazil. The days of American QC rejecting entire shipments of Brazilian guns are long over, and as mentioned our error/return rate is will within the industry standard at this point.

We're actually working with Guns.Com right in post production of a second video like this one that highlights our Brazil facilities.

[SwampDweller]

The industry standard appears to be at an all time low. What I would love to see is the industry as a whole trying to do better. While a return rate may be small, at best it's an inconvenience to the customer. If you told me that Taurus has better rates of return than Colt, S&W, Ruger, and Beretta (who have sunk to new or not so new lows), you'd have my attention.

Beretta? Beretta is one of a very few manufacturers I’ve not had guns brought back for warranty returns since the great QC decline of 2020. What have you seen that suggests a QC decline at Beretta? I figured they were one of the exceptions.

[Hambo]

Beretta? Beretta is one of a very few manufacturers I’ve not had guns brought back for warranty returns since the great QC decline of 2020. What have you seen that suggests a QC decline at Beretta? I figured they were one of the exceptions.

Cracked Tomcat frames
At least three 92FS with dead triggers out of the box
Then there was the run of 92Ds with the front sight slot milled at a downward angle

It seems to be a Tennessee problem, not an Italy problem.

[SwampDweller]

Cracked Tomcat frames
At least three 92FS with dead triggers out of the box
Then there was the run of 92Ds with the front sight slot milled at a downward angle

It seems to be a Tennessee problem, not an Italy problem.

Ah. My experience is with Italian. I’ve stayed away from US Berettas. I want a Langdon 92 but I don’t know if I want to take the chance on a Tennessee made one.

[jetfire]

The industry standard appears to be at an all time low. What I would love to see is the industry as a whole trying to do better. While a return rate may be small, at best it's an inconvenience to the customer. If you told me that Taurus has better rates of return than Colt, S&W, Ruger, and Beretta (who have sunk to new or not so new lows), you'd have my attention.

All the major manufacturers target a return rate of less than 1%, and we're under that along with S&W, Ruger, and Beretta. Your odds of getting a bad S&W are pretty much exactly the same as getting a bad Taurus revolver (very low).

Now I can't control people who, for some reason, invent problems because they're invested in seeing the brand fail, which is still something that surprises me whenever it happens.

[jetfire]

Hey, jetfire. I would like to see Taurus provide better customer service for folks who can and do perform their own firearms repairs. Requirng to send a firearm to the Mothership and waiting weeks and weeks for its return when only a simple replacement part is needed is sophomoric...a non-starter for me.

There is a considerable number of small parts available for purchase on ShopTaurus.Com depending on what you want to do to your gun. There's also a robust aftermarket of additional small parts, again depending on what you want to do to your gun.

[FrankB]

There is a considerable number of small parts available for purchase on ShopTaurus.Com depending on what you want to do to your gun. There's also a robust aftermarket of additional small parts, again depending on what you want to do to your gun.

https://shoptaurus.com/small-frame-revolvers/

I called Colt to get an extra yoke/crane screw for a Python, and the rep not only said No, he also said he wouldn’t know who to ask(!!!!).

[CSW]

I'd love to know why Taurus used to offer the flush 856 hammer to the public, then it was removed.

[jetfire]

I'd love to know why Taurus used to offer the flush 856 hammer to the public, then it was removed.

Parts availability. Most of them go into guns, and the few spares we have are in our repairs department. If there's ever X more than the spares quantity, those go up for sale. Hammers are one of the parts we have to replace the most often, because "Highly Trained Kitchen Table Gunsmiths" are forever doing their own action and polish jobs and ruining their hammers.

[45dotACP]

There is a considerable number of small parts available for purchase on ShopTaurus.Com depending on what you want to do to your gun. There's also a robust aftermarket of additional small parts, again depending on what you want to do to your gun.

Brather I wish I knew where an extended length firing pin for the small frame Taurus revolvers can be found.

I get that I should be able to run my bobbed hammer 2" with its 14lb trigger just fine....but I'd love a reliable 9lbs

[jetfire]

Brather I wish I knew where an extended length firing pin for the small frame Taurus revolvers can be found.

I get that I should be able to run my bobbed hammer 2" with its 14lb trigger just fine....but I'd love a reliable 9lbs

We are developing this as we speak with TK custom

[TheNewbie]

Everyone should be rooting for Taurus. They seem to be doing a lot of good work and they clearly are improving.


Do the Rossi revolvers have a bit smoother pull than the 856 series? I’m asking for someone with limited hand strength, who would need two fingers to have a decent pull on an 856.

[FreedomFries]

Cracked Tomcat frames
At least three 92FS with dead triggers out of the box
Then there was the run of 92Ds with the front sight slot milled at a downward angle

It seems to be a Tennessee problem, not an Italy problem.


Beretta? Beretta is one of a very few manufacturers I’ve not had guns brought back for warranty returns since the great QC decline of 2020. What have you seen that suggests a QC decline at Beretta? I figured they were one of the exceptions.

I have seen the front sight dovetail problem firsthand on a 92DXR. Also I have seen a sear installed unnecessarily in a DAO model. Also, completely absent staking on all of the grip bushings, which all unthreaded when the grip screws were removed. All of these problems on one pistol. Some of the barrels I have seen in the last few years looked like they were finished with a Dremel before the black oxide or whatever coating they use is applied. A 92 Elite slide that I have has a sight dovetail that is cut noticeably shallower than typical.

[sparkyv]

jetfire, well I was referring to warranty service, not mods/customizations.


There is a considerable number of small parts available for purchase on ShopTaurus.Com depending on what you want to do to your gun. There's also a robust aftermarket of additional small parts, again depending on what you want to do to your gun.

Hey, jetfire. I would like to see Taurus provide better customer service for folks who can and do perform their own firearms repairs. Requirng to send a firearm to the Mothership and waiting weeks and weeks for its return when only a simple replacement part is needed is sophomoric...a non-starter for me.

[jetfire]

jetfire, well I was referring to warranty service, not mods/customizations.

Just so I understand what you’re asking for, are you saying that you want use to send parts to end users so they can perform their own warranty repairs?

[jh9]

There is a considerable number of small parts available for purchase on ShopTaurus.Com depending on what you want to do to your gun. There's also a robust aftermarket of additional small parts, again depending on what you want to do to your gun.

Huh. How new is that? It looks like you can now buy replacements for buggered screws or bent extractor rods. In terms of spare parts availability that seems like a huge step up over what I remember was available from Taurus. (Which IIRC used to be "nothing.")

I know everybody always wants more more more... but is there a future where people can also get things like hands, cylinder stops or other hard parts? I know fitting those is beyond most customers who will buy them (after demanding them for free) then fuck up the install and blame Taurus for that too... but you can get those parts (and more) for S&Ws from Midway and Brownells. It would be nice to have the same option for Taurus. Especially now that shipping handguns is harder now than it was a year ago because of the new UPS rules.

In any case, the parts availability, the dot-sighted 856 and all the new stuff looks great. I hope you sell them by the conex boxfull.

[jetfire]

Huh. How new is that? It looks like you can now buy replacements for buggered screws or bent extractor rods. In terms of spare parts availability that seems like a huge step up over what I remember was available from Taurus. (Which IIRC used to be "nothing.")

I know everybody always wants more more more... but is there a future where people can also get things like hands, cylinder stops or other hard parts? I know fitting those is beyond most customers who will buy them (after demanding them for free) then fuck up the install and blame Taurus for that too... but you can get those parts (and more) for S&Ws from Midway and Brownells. It would be nice to have the same option for Taurus. Especially now that shipping handguns is harder now than it was a year ago because of the new UPS rules.

In any case, the parts availability, the dot-sighted 856 and all the new stuff looks great. I hope you sell them by the conex boxfull.

I don't want to rule anything out, but at the same time we have to walk the line of providing parts but also not encouraging people to do things that would void their warranty. In the long scheme of things, I want to be able to provide the same level of support to gunsmiths that you can get with S&W revolvers, but I also have a lot bigger fish to fry in the short term.

[Joe S]

It would be a nice thing if Taurus firearms could shake its previous spotty reputation, but that means more people would have to be willing to give them a try. ;)
.

I'm surprised more haven't gone for the 856. I mean, it's just barely bigger than an LCR, with an extra round. I know the barely bigger can make the already questionable pants pocket carry tricky, but for sweatpants/shorts/around the house day-off carry, it seems pretty magic.

[jetfire]

I'm surprised more haven't gone for the 856. I mean, it's just barely bigger than an LCR, with an extra round. I know the barely bigger can make the already questionable pants pocket carry tricky, but for sweatpants/shorts/around the house day-off carry, it seems pretty magic.

Well, according to the retail BI data I've got, the 856 across all SKUs outsells the LCR across all SKUs. But people are less likely to post about their new Taurus online

[L-2]

Thanks for the Made in USA info regarding Taurus.
I recently bought a Ruger LCRX .327Fed, even though I haven't had good luck with the brand, just so-so, over the years.

Probably like others, Taurus has generally had a bad reputation in my mind, but admit to never owning one.
I'm not a person to try another brand just to have something different (from S&W, in this case) and will let others demonstrate over time whether Taurus has become reliable and, therefore, acceptable to me.

Any positive or negative comments get filed away in my brain/mind and I don't want to bother with bad trigger feels or having to send a gun back for warranty/rework/quality-issues. Right now, I'll just have to see how this Ruger LCRX works out, and later, if I'm lucky-enough to score the forthcoming Lipsey's 432UC S&W revolver. At that point, I've pretty much spend my gun-budget for the year.

[sharps54]

I'm surprised more haven't gone for the 856. I mean, it's just barely bigger than an LCR, with an extra round. I know the barely bigger can make the already questionable pants pocket carry tricky, but for sweatpants/shorts/around the house day-off carry, it seems pretty magic.

I can confirm that the 2” 856 fits great in a Mika pocket holster for a LCR.

[Joe S]

Well, according to the retail BI data I've got, the 856 across all SKUs outsells the LCR across all SKUs. But people are less likely to post about their new Taurus online

That makes sense to me. It had occurred to me after I posted that probably the data I was sampling (PF is my only real glance at the larger gunternet, other than a blog or two) was not representative of the nation.

[45dotACP]

Being honest, my 856 did have an issue with a broken firing pin spring. It doesn't quite work with a J frame firing pin spring, but numrich had spare springs for a model 85 and I was able to get a few more spares and now the gun works fine. Lesson learned was to use snap caps or something to cushion firing pin impact for dry fire.

[Inkwell 41]

So, the 65 and 82 are equivalent to the K frame? Is the 66 equivalent to the L frame? The 608 an N frame?

How about the smaller frame series like 605 and 856? Obviously they are bigger than a J frame… are they sized between the J and K?

I’d like to see updated sights on the fixed sight models. Something like what S&W has done with the new Lipsey’s specials. A replaceable front sight on the 66 would be nice.

TK is cutting Taurus cylinders for moon clips.

Last, wish Taurus would broaden their offerings on Expert Voice.

[lee n. field]

I'd love to know why Taurus used to offer the flush 856 hammer to the public, then it was removed.

I've actually got a spurless 856 hammer right now, that I can't use.

(I bought an 856 parts kit off Gunbroker, specifically to get the spurless hammer. Come to find out, the pin the hammer pivots on is a bit fatter in my 2021 and 2023 guns than this, and the hammer could not be installed. No, I'm not going to drill out the hole. The SN on the barrel points to a 2020 DOM, if the serial number decoder from the Internet is correct.

A is the hammer from the parts kit. B is the hammer from my 2023 856.

And of course it's too tall for my 605.)

114916

[Chuck Whitlock]

All the major manufacturers target a return rate of less than 1%, and we're under that along with S&W, Ruger, and Beretta. Your odds of getting a bad S&W are pretty much exactly the same as getting a bad Taurus revolver (very low).



I have seen the front sight dovetail problem firsthand on a 92DXR. Also I have seen a sear installed unnecessarily in a DAO model. Also, completely absent staking on all of the grip bushings, which all unthreaded when the grip screws were removed. All of these problems on one pistol. Some of the barrels I have seen in the last few years looked like they were finished with a Dremel before the black oxide or whatever coating they use is applied. A 92 Elite slide that I have has a sight dovetail that is cut noticeably shallower than typical.

https://pistol-training.com/articles/trust-no-one-an-insiders-perspective/

[Chuck Whitlock]

I'm surprised more haven't gone for the 856. I mean, it's just barely bigger than an LCR, with an extra round. I know the barely bigger can make the already questionable pants pocket carry tricky, but for sweatpants/shorts/around the house day-off carry, it seems pretty magic.

It worked for me the past couple of weeks in relaxed fit Duluth jeans.

https://www.duluthtrading.com/s/DTC/mens-duluthflex-ballroom-relaxed-fit-jeans-20207.html?color=WDN




I can confirm that the 2” 856 fits great in a Mika pocket holster for a LCR.

I can confirm that it works well in an Aholster Backbone for an SP-101....I think I'm going to take a heat gun to it next week.

Additionally, the SP-101 fits in a Mika's IWB for an LCR. (The 856 ought to as well, I just haven't stuffed it in the Mikas I have)

[Chuck Whitlock]

Well, according to the retail BI data I've got, the 856 across all SKUs outsells the LCR across all SKUs. But people are less likely to post about their new Taurus online

jetfire,

Out of curiosity, did Taurus drop the 2" stainless CH model from the lineup? This is the only CH version on the website:

https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/small-frame-revolvers/taurus-856/taurus-r-856-38-spl-p-matte-black-2-in-concealed-hammer

Just before Christmas, I picked up a 2" SS 856 on consignment at my LGS. Really liking it.

I for one would like to see more CH options available from the factory....or from the parts store. It seems to me that a spurless DAO hammer would not require the fitting that an SA sear requires, but maybe I don't know what I don't know.

[sparkyv]

Yup. Your competitors often do it, albeit on a case-by-case basis.
Thanks for responding to my posts, that's not often done by your competitors.

Just so I understand what you’re asking for, are you saying that you want use to send parts to end users so they can perform their own warranty repairs?

[BillSWPA]

jetfire,

Out of curiosity, did Taurus drop the 2" stainless CH model from the lineup? This is the only CH version on the website:

https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/small-frame-revolvers/taurus-856/taurus-r-856-38-spl-p-matte-black-2-in-concealed-hammer

Just before Christmas, I picked up a 2" SS 856 on consignment at my LGS. Really liking it.

I for one would like to see more CH options available from the factory....or from the parts store. It seems to me that a spurless DAO hammer would not require the fitting that an SA sear requires, but maybe I don't know what I don't know.

I would add that in my opinion a hammer spur is a bad idea on a concealed carry revolver in most instances. The exception is when it is needed for a retention strap. I will echo the call for more concealed hammer or spurless hammer options.

[TheNewbie]

I’m the odd man out. For me, a hammer is a must have. Preferably spurless, but I’ll take a spur over no hammer.

DAO with a spurless hammer is what I prefer, but I understand the desire for a concealed hammer.

[jetfire]

Yup. Your competitors often do it, albeit on a case-by-case basis.
Thanks for responding to my posts, that's not often done by your competitors.

For a number of reasons that's a no-go for us, and the simplest explanation is "because lawyers exist." A more complex explanation would be something I'd do on a podcast or a media appearance, since it would take a while to fully draw it out.

[jetfire]

So, the 65 and 82 are equivalent to the K frame? Is the 66 equivalent to the L frame? The 608 an N frame?

How about the smaller frame series like 605 and 856? Obviously they are bigger than a J frame… are they sized between the J and K?

I’d like to see updated sights on the fixed sight models. Something like what S&W has done with the new Lipsey’s specials. A replaceable front sight on the 66 would be nice.

TK is cutting Taurus cylinders for moon clips.

Last, wish Taurus would broaden their offerings on Expert Voice.

Here's a quick guide to understanding Taurus frame sizes:

605: J-frame sized. Takes the same loaders, fits the same holsters. Same is true for the 905 just in 9mm.
856: Colt D-frame-ish sized, generally takes most K-frame speed loaders. Fits some J-frame holsters, fits almost all SP101 holsters/K6 holsters.
65/82: Takes K-frame loaders but are closer to L-frame in external dimensions.
66 7-shot: Takes 586/686+ loaders and fits similar holsters
608: approximately N-frame sized, but has its own cylinder charge hole pattern

Trackers: Fits L-frame holsters, and generally takes the same loaders as equivalent caliber L-frames. My 692 tracker shares 7 shot loaders with the Taurus 66 and my 586 L-Comp.

[revchuck38]

jetfire - Could you do a quick compare/contrast thing with the Tauruses (Tauri?) and new Rossis? I'm interested in either an 856 3" or an RP63 and they seem to fill the same niche. It looks like I could use my 3" K frame kydex (but not leather) holsters for the Rossi, which is what has me interested in it. It also looks like, though the RP63 has an interchangeable front sight, there are no options for replacement sights.

[jetfire]

jetfire - Could you do a quick compare/contrast thing with the Tauruses (Tauri?) and new Rossis? I'm interested in either an 856 3" or an RP63 and they seem to fill the same niche. It looks like I could use my 3" K frame kydex (but not leather) holsters for the Rossi, which is what has me interested in it. It also looks like, though the RP63 has an interchangeable front sight, there are no options for replacement sights.

The Rossi front sight interchanges with the Taurus small frame front sights. A little bit of shared tech.

The RP63 will fit most K-ISH frame holsters, it's kind of hit and miss. Obviously, the big advantage over the 856 for the Rossi is that it's a 357

[jh9]

The RP63 will fit most K-ISH frame holsters, it's kind of hit and miss. Obviously, the big advantage over the 856 for the Rossi is that it's a 357

The RP63 is tickling some serious 1990s nostalgia for me.

Speaking of Rossi, there's a Cyclops on gunbroker (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1033950550). Don't see those often. I assume there's no plan to bring that one back. ...Though there is some demand. It appears there's a human being that can presumably pass a background check willing to pay an actual, thousand United States Dollars for it. Well, two technically. I must be deranged for thinking it's worth that. Hell, I've wanted one since I saw Hard Rain.

I'm half tempted to bid on it just to see what must be the two biggest dumbasses on gunbroker are willing to drive the price up to.

[Inkwell 41]

Here's a quick guide to understanding Taurus frame sizes:

605: J-frame sized. Takes the same loaders, fits the same holsters. Same is true for the 905 just in 9mm.
856: Colt D-frame-ish sized, generally takes most K-frame speed loaders. Fits some J-frame holsters, fits almost all SP101 holsters/K6 holsters.
65/82: Takes K-frame loaders but are closer to L-frame in external dimensions.
66 7-shot: Takes 586/686+ loaders and fits similar holsters
608: approximately N-frame sized, but has its own cylinder charge hole pattern

Trackers: Fits L-frame holsters, and generally takes the same loaders as equivalent caliber L-frames. My 692 tracker shares 7 shot loaders with the Taurus 66 and my 586 L-Comp.

Thank you jetfire

[jh9]

Speaking of Rossi, there's a Cyclops on gunbroker (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1033950550). Don't see those often.

I didn't, of course, but other people did. Ladies and gentlemen, behold. A $1,300 Rossi revolver.

[awp_101]

https://youtu.be/DSWspwN4-3w?si=NyrJcbvEUGj220Ej

jetfire, were any of those 10,006 rounds +P? How well do you think an 82 would hold up to a steady diet of +P?

Also, what are the two framed pieces hanging just behind your head? A S&W ad and a S&W revolver patent?

[jetfire]

https://youtu.be/DSWspwN4-3w?si=NyrJcbvEUGj220Ej

jetfire, were any of those 10,006 rounds +P? How well do you think an 82 would hold up to a steady diet of +P?

Also, what are the two framed pieces hanging just behind your head? A S&W ad and a S&W revolver patent?

Many of them were +P. Buffalo Bore, Federal, Blazer and some others.

Top pic is a vintage Taurus ad, bottom one is a British Adams revolver diagram

[awp_101]

Many of them were +P. Buffalo Bore, Federal, Blazer and some others.

Top pic is a vintage Taurus ad, bottom one is a British Adams revolver diagram

Thanks!

An Adams! Damn it, how did I miss that?

[onehalfmvsquared]

Well, according to the retail BI data I've got, the 856 across all SKUs outsells the LCR across all SKUs. But people are less likely to post about their new Taurus online

#1

https://i.imgur.com/J4LnoF6.jpg?2

#2

https://i.imgur.com/uBuL137.jpg

now I can dual wield

[Wood]

*taps the mic*

so uh, I've been mulling over getting a rimfire recently, and my current thinking has been either the more expensive but easy to find and well-reputed LCR in .22lr or making the ballistic upgrade to .22 magnum and opting for the 8 shot 942M from Taurus.

Some points of consideration:

Triggers: I haven't been able to try either of them in person yet. Research suggests the LCR is good but maybe a bit heavier than the centerfire models - which sounds just fine to me. No idea what to expect from the 942. I know rimfires just generally have heavier triggers for the sake of function in a revolver(I briefly owned a Colt Trooper .22 mag, double action was exhausting), but can anyone speak to the 942 in particular?

Availibility: I guess the 942 line has been barely trickling out of the Taurus factory for years now? Seems like they are hard to come by, and indeed, I can't find the exact model I would most like (2" stainless) but there are a handful of 3" matte black models floating around on the internet at the moment, so I'm feeling a bit of pressure to not miss the opportunity.

Guess I'll mention that I'm aware of S&W's J frame .22s. They are expensive and at the bottom of the list at the moment.

So, any suggestions/advice?

[Polecat]

I would run from Taurus based on my horrid .22 experiences. Two of my 3 942s were replaced as they couldn’t be repaired. I guess they were that out of spec. They felt rough, ignition was off on some chambers. Just really soured me to the point when my replacements came in, I sold them to my shop at a loss. I just didn’t want any more frustration. Not, ALL 3 of mine back to the mother ship!

Currently have a S&W 43c that has been great, and recently picked up an LCRx .22 WMR that is great.


Good luck!

[Stephanie B]

I had a 4" Taurus 9-shot .22 revolver of some flavor years ago. It was "meh" at best. It went on consignment when I bought a S&W Model 17. It was like going from a rusty VW Beetle to a Porsche.

[awp_101]

jetfire, this may be outside of your purview but is there any talk of Rossi bringing any operations stateside? Or does their inventory already move through the Bainbridge facility?

[revchuck38]

jetfire, this may be outside of your purview but is there any talk of Rossi bringing any operations stateside? Or does their inventory already move through the Bainbridge facility?

I’m not jetfire, but my RP63 shows “Braztech Int’l L.C., Bainbridge, GA” on the side plate.

[jetfire]

jetfire, this may be outside of your purview but is there any talk of Rossi bringing any operations stateside? Or does their inventory already move through the Bainbridge facility?

Taurus Holdings Incorporated is the parent company for Taurus USA, Rossi USA, and Heritage Manufacturing. As of right now, all three brands have various levels of US operations through our Bainbridge, GA HQ. For Rossi that includes inspections and final assembly/conversion on some models.

[awp_101]

Taurus Holdings Incorporated is the parent company for Taurus USA, Rossi USA, and Heritage Manufacturing. As of right now, all three brands have various levels of US operations through our Bainbridge, GA HQ. For Rossi that includes inspections and final assembly/conversion on some models.
Thanks!


I’m not jetfire, but my RP63 shows “Braztech Int’l L.C., Bainbridge, GA” on the side plate.
Mine are marked the same, that’s why I was curious if it was just an administrative center for Rossi importation or if things like QA/QC were taking place there and if there were plans to do some manufacturing here as well.

[lee n. field]

I’m not jetfire, but my RP63 shows “Braztech Int’l L.C., Bainbridge, GA” on the side plate.

(Just bought a Rossi lever gun. It says the same.)

[awp_101]

Here's a quick guide to understanding Taurus frame sizes:

605: J-frame sized. Takes the same loaders, fits the same holsters. Same is true for the 905 just in 9mm.
856: Colt D-frame-ish sized, generally takes most K-frame speed loaders. Fits some J-frame holsters, fits almost all SP101 holsters/K6 holsters.
65/82: Takes K-frame loaders but are closer to L-frame in external dimensions.
66 7-shot: Takes 586/686+ loaders and fits similar holsters
608: approximately N-frame sized, but has its own cylinder charge hole pattern

Trackers: Fits L-frame holsters, and generally takes the same loaders as equivalent caliber L-frames. My 692 tracker shares 7 shot loaders with the Taurus 66 and my 586 L-Comp.

What about the Model 44 (not the Tracker) (https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/medium-frame-revolvers/taurus-44/taurus-r-44-44-mag-matte-stainless-4-00-in-soft-rubber)? Closer to an N or L Frame?

[jetfire]

What about the Model 44 (not the Tracker) (https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/medium-frame-revolvers/taurus-44/taurus-r-44-44-mag-matte-stainless-4-00-in-soft-rubber)? Closer to an N or L Frame?

N-frame.

Despite their nomenclature as "medium frames" the Taurus 44 and 608 are similar in size to N-frames, allowing them to hold 6 rounds of 44 Mag or 8 rounds of 357 Mag

[awp_101]

N-frame.

Despite their nomenclature as "medium frames" the Taurus 44 and 608 are similar in size to N-frames, allowing them to hold 6 rounds of 44 Mag or 8 rounds of 357 Mag

Thanks! Compatible-ish with N frame support gear or are they they're own creatures in that regard?

[jetfire]

Thanks! Compatible-ish with N frame support gear or are they they're own creatures in that regard?

Speedloaders for Model 29s will fit the 44.

The 608 is its own pattern for loaders

[10-6]

Does anyone have any insight into the differences between the Bainbridge Taurus guns and the Miami ones? Considering a 692 but wondering if the place of manufacture has any bearing on the quality of the gun itself.

[45dotACP]

Does anyone have any insight into the differences between the Bainbridge Taurus guns and the Miami ones? Considering a 692 but wondering if the place of manufacture has any bearing on the quality of the gun itself.From my understanding, it's more likely you'll get a good gun if it's marked Bainbridge. Not that you can't get a decent Miami marked gun, but the switch to Georgia seemed to mark something of a sea change in the company's quality in a coincidental fashion (its when they got a CEO who actually cared about better quality guns, responded to the market demands, and did a lot of final assembly of parts in the US...which while not always a guarantee of high quality, is likely better than getting one put together by the local talent in Brazil.

In my experience, the 856 I have is awesome. It did eat firing pin return springs if you dry fired without snap caps though. So always use snap caps.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[FreedomFries]

Thread is a year old but I thought I would revive it to ask if a lot of people here have bought a recent Taurus 44 or 608? Not much information on these guns, especially after Taurus USA's move to Georgia. I have a couple Tauri in the 856 variety. Have no complaints about either gun. My executive grade 856 is basically perfect in terms of fit, and the TORO 856 has a tiny bit more endshake than I'd prefer for a new revolver, but nothing unusual and works fine.

I saw a Taurus 44 yesterday in the store, and it looked like a very cost effective alternative to a S&W 629. Guy at the counter said the double action wasn't good compared to a Smith, but honestly I thought it was about the same, and I own a lot of Smiths. Everything about it looked good, except the front sight had a ding from factory install.

I'm seriously considering purchasing either a 44 or 608 in 4" to see if ported barrels make a difference. I have a S&W 629 that makes the base of my thumb sore for 2 days after shooting a box of .44 Mag. Curious if porting will do anything to alleviate felt recoil, or just muzzle rise. A ported Smith probably would cost twice as much as the Taurus equivalent, so would be an expensive experiment if I don't care for the porting.

[jetfire]

Thread is a year old but I thought I would revive it to ask if a lot of people here have bought a recent Taurus 44 or 608? Not much information on these guns, especially after Taurus USA's move to Georgia. I have a couple Tauri in the 856 variety. Have no complaints about either gun. My executive grade 856 is basically perfect in terms of fit, and the TORO 856 has a tiny bit more endshake than I'd prefer for a new revolver, but nothing unusual and works fine.

I saw a Taurus 44 yesterday in the store, and it looked like a very cost effective alternative to a S&W 629. Guy at the counter said the double action wasn't good compared to a Smith, but honestly I thought it was about the same, and I own a lot of Smiths. Everything about it looked good, except the front sight had a ding from factory install.

I'm seriously considering purchasing either a 44 or 608 in 4" to see if ported barrels make a difference. I have a S&W 629 that makes the base of my thumb sore for 2 days after shooting a box of .44 Mag. Curious if porting will do anything to alleviate felt recoil, or just muzzle rise. A ported Smith probably would cost twice as much as the Taurus equivalent, so would be an expensive experiment if I don't care for the porting.

Both the Taurus 44 and the 608 are built on what we call our "medium frame" which is sort of a legacy design from back in the day. It shares action components with the Taurus 82, 65, and 66. I have limited trigger time on the 608, probably only a few hundred rounds, and none of the 44, but I have nearly 12,000 rounds across the "medium frame" platform. In general, I've found those guns to be the hidden gems of the Taurus lineup. The actions take very well to a basic action/spring job, and are very robust if you're going to be doing a lot of fast DA trigger time. Based on handling characteristics alone, the 44 is a bit lighter and easier to manage than the equivalent Raging Hunter in 44 Magnum, and would be a solid choice if you were looking for an N-frame sized with a solid trigger for woods carry or hunting. I was actually planning on getting a 4 inch 44 when I get back to the states and spending some serious trigger time with it.

[JonInWA]

Caleb, can you talk to the Rossi line-up and how it compares to the Taurus?

I'm still tempted to give a Rossi RM64 a run based on our previous conversation; how would it compare to my Ruger GP100 and Security Six in terms of accuracy, durability, and action feel?

Best, Jon

[TheNewbie]

I really liked my 856, but it was just too heavy for pocket carry. Wish I had tried a lightweight version, but I have an LCR now.

With Caleb working there, and their overall improvement, I would trust one as much as a S&W from what I’ve read about S&W on here.

Though I do wish someone would make a true copy of the Security Six.

[Zeke38]

Sorry to see the 850 is only a five shot, no advantage over a J frame. 6 shot 850 I'd purchase in a heartbeat. Carry my 856 UL a lot, good reliable shooter.

[Cheap Shot]

I really liked my 856, but it was just too heavy for pocket carry. Wish I had tried a lightweight version, but I have an LCR now.

With Caleb working there, and their overall improvement, I would trust one as much as a S&W from what I’ve read about S&W on here.

Though I do wish someone would make a true copy of the Security Six.

I just bought a used Security Six, so with my luck look for Ruger/Lipsey to release an updated version very soon...........

[Totem Polar]

Though I do wish someone would make a true copy of the Security Six.

Fortunately, OG copies abound. Bought one a couple of months ago, and I saw 2 blued 4” iterations in an LGS yesterday.

[jetfire]

Caleb, can you talk to the Rossi line-up and how it compares to the Taurus?

I'm still tempted to give a Rossi RM64 a run based on our previous conversation; how would it compare to my Ruger GP100 and Security Six in terms of accuracy, durability, and action feel?

Best, Jon

Rossi occupies a medium point between the standard Taurus line and the Executive Grade. So not hand built and finished like the EG, but higher build quality than a regular run Taurus gun. The RM64 and RM66s are true K-frame analogs as well, taking K loaders and fitting K-holsters.

[Singh]

I have my doubts on American QC, especially with revolvers.

[FreedomFries]

Saw the Rossi RM64 at the general store today and was impressed with the overall feel of the gun.

The frame looked very similar in size to the Taurus 856 frame, but the stocks have a covered backstrap and makes the trigger reach feel similar to a K frame with open backstrap stocks. The trigger reach on the Taurus 856 is very short for me without covered backstrap stocks. The trigger reach with the factory rubber stocks works OK for me on the RM64. The stock are actually quite comfortable. I have medium sized hands and the finger grooves fit me OK. Compared to a Smith K frame, the K frame has a thicker frame and the K frame's distance from the top of the frame to the bottom of the trigger guard is about 1/4" greater.

The b/c gap looked a little wide, but it was the only one in stock. I decided to purchase it anyway. The b/c gap measured 0.010" at home; not really any worse than some of the revolvers from other brands. Everything else on it looks good. The finish appears to be nitride and there were almost no tooling marks on it. It was a smart choice to nitride this gun for a black finish as opposed to blue, black oxide, or Cerakote. No issues with alignment or timing that I can see.

Ameriglo front sight fits in the sight base for the RM64. The stock front sight, as far as I can tell, is the exact same front sight they put on some of the Taurus 856. The front sight pin is about the same size as a Smith or Taurus and comes out easily with a Brownells #5 (.050") punch. A 1/16" punch seems just barely too large. The factory applied a sleeve retaining compound or threadlocker, so the original front sight had be pushed forward and out with a brass punch and some masking tape to prevent brass marks on the barrel and sight.

The trigger is decent. The single action is nice and breaks at 4.5 lbs. That's a feature I'm not going to use much. The double action has a significant hump after the cylinder starts rotating, then gets lighter for the last part of trigger travel. It is about 13-14 lbs to get through the hump; accurate measurement not possible with my gauge that maxes at 12 lbs. At the end of the trigger travel, it breaks at about 11.5 lbs, which I could measure. Aside from the significant hump in the middle of the trigger travel, it has a fairly smooth as opposed to gritty pull.

Unlike the Taurus 856, it has a hammer mounted firing pin and has a hammer block that moves down when the trigger is pulled. The Taurus 856 has a frame contained firing pin and a transfer bar that moves up during trigger pull.

The trigger shoe is wider. Towards the top of the trigger shoe, it feels sharper. I'm going to have contour this or it will certainly chew my index finger up.

The RM64 cylinder is very slightly larger in diameter than the Taurus 856. I measured it and didn't write all the exact measurements, but I think it was about .03 or .04" difference. The cylinder window in the frame also is similarly larger on the RM64. The barrel underlug is also more square than on the 856.

Next, since there are no kydex holsters I can find for the RM64, I started testing the fit in various kydex holsters:

Dark Star Apollo Taurus Small Frame. No-go. Barrel too long. Even if holster was made open bottom, underlug profile makes insertion of barrel very difficult. Frame is close but perhaps may be very tight fit.
Dark Star Apollo J Frame. No-go. Barrel doesn't even begin to insert.
Dark Star Apollo SP101. No-go. Barrel too long. Even if holster was made open bottom, cylinder will not insert.
Dark Star Apollo LCR. No-go. Barrel too long. Barrel fits tightly. Even if holster was made open bottom, cylinder will not insert.
Phlster 856 TORO. No-go. Barrel is too long. Otherwise might fit with the barrel sticking out if the holster was converted to open bottom. I assume frame and cylinder would be a tight fit.
JMCK AIWB 2.0 J frame. No-go. Barrel doesn't even begin to insert.
JMCK AIWB 2.0 K frame. The gun will insert all the way and is a snug fit. The molded area for the trigger guard does not match up perfectly to the gun, but it does cover the trigger.
JMCK AIWB K frame. The gun will insert all the way and is a snug fit. The molded area for the trigger guard does not match up perfectly to the gun, but it does cover the trigger.
JMCK AIWB 2.0 L frame. No-go. Guns inserts all the way, but is very loose.
Colt Python. No-go. Gun inserts all the way, but is moderately loose.

Size comparison photos between 856, RM64, S&W 66-8...
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[JonInWA]

Excellent review, FF. Thanks for taking the time. Let us know how it feels and holds up in actual use.

Best, Jon

[Jamie]

Agree with JonInWA. Great review and very appreciated.

[FreedomFries]

First range trip with the RM64. 118 rounds fired (18 .357 Mag, 100 .38 Spl). The Ameriglo front sight is an excellent accessory for this gun. At 70 ft, I was shooting 2.75 to 3.5 inch 6 round groups from standing, double action only. The trigger is not great, but workable. It gets extremely heavy while turning the cylinder and then suddenly lighter after it carries up. If you try to roll through the trigger in a continuous motion, it's hard to get tight groups. You also have to really pay attention if you want to stage the trigger because it's easy to roll all the through when trying to overcome the stacking in the middle of the press.

The shape of the trigger is not ideal either. The edge at the top is a bit sharp and the wider blade is not the best for double action firing. It is tolerable but does leave my index finger with a bit of a hot spot. Rossi probably assumes most users will be firing in single action and prefer more of a target trigger shape. Unfortunately, it is a double action revolver, but the double action is difficult enough to use that I could see why someone would want to use it in single action primarily.

K frame Safariland speedloaders worked fine for me.

No weird stoppages so far, but it did get progressively harder to use and had to be lubricated because it was nearly bone dry out of the box. The ratchet looks a bit rough, and trigger pull is not always the same between different charge holes. I am hoping more dry fire and use will smooth things out a bit.

I think it's a decent inexpensive revolver so far. As far as carrying goes, it is slightly lighter than a Smith 66 of comparable length. I now have it in a Tagua IWB leather holster that was sold to me as an N frame holster but I think is really a K frame holster. I didn't pay a lot for the holster, and some Velcro on the backside worked wonders with a crotch pillow.

Will report back when I have more rounds through it.

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[42Willys]

Good stuff FF.

[FreedomFries]

I opened up the Rossi RM64 after some extensive dry fire using snap caps (has a hammer mounted firing pin). In a previous post, I had guessed that the weight of the DA pull while the hand is engaging the ratchet to rotate the cylinder was 13-14 lbs, but I would guess now that it was even higher than that. Easily at least 16 lbs, making an oversprung M9's DA pull feel like a toy. Something was certainly odd about this and dry fire was not smoothing out the action, so I decided to open it up to have a look in case there were huge burrs or metal shavings inside.

When I took off the side plate, I observed some oil between the sideplate and frame contact areas but otherwise the parts were dry. The inside of the frame and small parts appeared quite clean without any unusual shavings, burrs, or contamination. I wasn't expecting a freak off party amount of lube, but the factory should have put some oil on critical parts like the rebound slide, hammer, trigger, and hand, especially if they don't want to the typical user opening up the side plate. There was a lot of friction between the cylinder and yoke barrel. This needed to be lubricated as well. When I removed the cylinder, ejector rod, and extractor, these parts all looked pretty clean without any burrs or unusual tooling marks.

This has made a big difference in the overall feel of the trigger. I am guessing the yoke barrel and inside of the cylinder was very dry out of the box, and the resistance in turning the cylinder was what I was feeling in the trigger.

Some things I would note from disassembly. The sideplate is removed basically like a Smith. The internals are very Smith like. The yoke screw has a plunger and spring inside the screw but the stuff all wants to fall out once the screw is out. I packed grease in the plunger to help retain the spring, then filled the base of the screw with grease as well. Now it keeps together better when I remove the screw. The cylinder doesn't come free from the yoke easily. It has some kind of press fit bushing between the yoke barrel and cylinder and I had to use a miniature nylon pry lever to pop the cylinder off the yoke. The ejector rod is left hand threaded like recent Smiths. It has locating pins for the extractor and is smart to use some spent brass in the charge holes to support it when applying torque.

The ejector rod is extremely short for a gun with a 4" barrel rated for .357 Magnum. This is kind of disappointing. The amount of extractor throw is about 0.12" less than on a Taurus 856, which is only chambered for .38 Special. I didn't have any issues popping out brass, but the gun is nearly new. If it was filthy, I'd probably be wishing for a longer ejector rod to pump out the long magnum brass. It's not quite vestigial looking like on a 442/642, but I can't really comprehend why they made it so short on a full size barrel in .357 Magnum. I have a photo below comparing the ejector rod on the Smith 66-8 and Rossi RM64.

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