.32 vs .38

[GJM]

So if you could have an otherwise identical revolver in .38 or .32, which way would you go? Obvious things that come to mind are cheaper ammo and snake shot available for the .38, and an extra cartridge and Buffalo Bore wadcutters for the .32.

Thoughts?

[gtmtnbiker98]

.32 craze is a fad that won’t last very long. My opinion.

[revchuck38]

For me, the only advantage a .32 would have is an extra round in a J frame. That would be more than offset by the extra expense of factory ammo and also setting up for reloading (I'm currently in the process of loading a five-gallon bucket of .38 Special brass). While I do carry a J frame on occasion, as a retired guy who a) stays out of NPEs and b) follows the Rule of the Three Stupids, that juice just ain't worth the squeeze. I'm 72, maybe when I'm in my eighties that math will change.

OTOH, if I stumbled onto a 6" M16-something square butt, I might could be persuaded, but that would be for UIT Centerfire.

[flyrodr]

In terms of the abundance of loadings and of availability (pretty much any small town store that offers any ammo will have some form of.22LR, 12 gauge and .38 Spl.), I'd lean toward the .38.

Growing up in a small town (then ~2,000 pop), I could find .38 in a local hardware store, an auto parts store, and any number of "country stores". Not so much .32, IIRC.

(Old fart musing: One of those country stores parking area, at least from the store front to the gas pumps, was "paved" with soda pop bottle caps. Early and smart recycling.)

[GJM]

.32 S&W J frames bring crazy money, and their front sight isn't compatible with the D&L sight installation, which is frustrating. Darryl sure likes the .32 and I thought the testing they did at the Gunsite revolver round up showed the Buffalo Bore wadcutter performing very well.

[ssb]

I would jump all over a .32 caliber J frame loaded with Lost River wadcutters. The sixth round gives a bit of extra comfort. One would have to be a reloader to support it, however - but then again, one almost has to be to shoot .38/.357 in any real volume these days. Revolvers are easy to keep brass for and they’re easy on carry ammo when loading/unloading, so I don’t view those extra costs as particularly significant.

[Navin Johnson]

With the Kimber 6 shot 38 that weighs under 16 oz. and the cylinder is 0.1" (3/32) larger than a 642 how does that factor in?

I have only seen 32 at Cabelas in my area and I frequent many shooting stores

If 32 ammo and guns were readily available I would likely have one

But I will stick with 38 as it is much easier and more flexable

Depending on weather/sitsuation I carry a 10 shot J frames. (kinda trumps the 5 vs 6 discussion)

[gato naranja]

(Old fart musing: One of those country stores parking area, at least from the store front to the gas pumps, was "paved" with soda pop bottle caps. Early and smart recycling.)

The parking lots, gutters and road shoulders of my hometown used to have a fair sprinkling of bottle caps and crushed cans; one could easily spot the brand preference changes of the underage drinking set (the ones a few years older than myself). Grain Belt, Pabst Blue Ribbon, Hamm's, Old Milwaukee...

ANYhow...

I tried occasionally (though halfheartedly) to make .32 part of my team, but I never thought they had any advantage other than adding capacity to some revolvers. I was influenced to some extent by old timers who related dismal tales of the ineffectiveness of the average .32 revolver in such mundane tasks as stopping a crazed guy threatening fellow tipplers, putting down a steer who raised objections to being butchered, etc, etc. That area between the .22 rimfires and the .38 S&W (let alone the .38 Special) was pretty lackluster to those old timers... with maybe the exception of the .32-20, which was not a particularly common handgun chambering... not in my neck of the woods anyway.

That being said, I still marvel at how many old guys (and sometimes old ladies) back then still had a relatively inexpensive .32 revolver which they seldom fired, but which was kept hidden "away from the grandkids" (wishful thinking- the kids knew where it was and how to get to it). Local men of sound repute who would be deputized by the sheriff or made special town officers would dig them out, carry them for a couple hours and put them back in some drawer. They were relatively inexpensive, one box of ammo from the hardware store might last the owner 25 years, and they would make people and animals leak... I suppose it is all in the perspective.

About all I can say is that the .327 Federal Magnum cured me once and for all of any longing for any .32/7.65 handgun that didn't come back from WWII in a GI's dufflebag.

[mmc45414]

IMO 38 is to revolvers what 9x19 has become for pistols, may or may not be optimal, but is widespread enough to make it a big decision to deviate.
But the 38 is probably not an optimal case capacity for best performance out of a short barrel.

But, maybe like the 30 Super Carry, it could allow someone who is already familiar to have an additional copy in the alternative chambering that holds more. So if I was going to just have one, it would be 38, but if I was going to get another, maybe one of the 32s would be interesting, since I already have four of the 38s.

[Borderland]

I have both 38 and 32 J frames. I experimented with the 38 Short Colt in my model 36 because it's extremly hard to shoot accurately (for me) with regular loads. Accuracy improved greatly using 38 SC. My conclusion was, if I carry it I'll use 38 SC ammo. I can shoot my model 31-1 accurately with regular loads.

I'm of the opinion that 38 spl should be limited to a K frame unless you can shoot a J frame accurately. We had to qualify to use our pistol range a few years ago. The target was an 8" bullseye at 7 yds. I didn't see anyone trying that using a J frame 38. I did see several K frames and even a 32 J frame. That target would be a piece of cake for me with my 31-1, even at 15 yards. It's a 4''.

[Totem Polar]

.32 craze is a fad that won’t last very long. My opinion.

I agree, with the caveat that it’s a fad that waxes and wanes in history, like 38 super or something. 32 j-frames push the envelope of “enthusiast” gun, right over into “hipster,” IMHO.

I mean, the most prominent advocates for .32 carry revolvers have all been extremely active influencers on this little forum at one point or another over time. That alone should tell us something.
:)

[revchuck38]

I agree, with the caveat that it’s a fad that waxes and wanes in history, like 38 super or something. 32 j-frames push the envelope of “enthusiast” gun, right over into “hipster,” IMHO.

I mean, the most prominent advocates for .32 carry revolvers have all been extremely active influencers on this little forum at one point or another over time. That alone should tell us something.
:)

What, that this is "Hipster Central"? :)

[frozentundra]

I think .32 revolvers are a great compromise for non-gun people, or people who can't/wont/don't want to deal with recoil. 32 wadcutters are the closest thing I've experienced to .22 recoil, and they do that without some of the drawbacks associated with a .22 revolver, such as the heavy trigger and rimfire primer issues. If anyone is capable of enjoying the act of shooting a handgun, it will be most likely to happen with a either .22 LR or .32 wadcutter, so girlfriend or grandma may actually not loathe the act of shooting one.

Many non-gun people won't actually train anyway, so ammo cost is perhaps not as relevant here, but price between .38 wadcutters and .32 wadcutters isn't much, and .32 LRN is just as affordable as .38 wadcutters. Local availability is one thing, but I think it was actually easier to get .32 online during the bad times. It seems to have a small, but very dedicated, cult demand in the form of certain target and cowboy sports, which keeps the online supply moving.

I have an LCR in .327 federal. I went back and forth between .38 and .327 before purchasing it. I kind of wish I'd have gone with .38, but that is just because of the weight difference for pocket carry. If the weight was equal, I'd still pick .32 for sure. This gun is slated as my future 'Old Man Gun' in case I don't acquire something preferable in the meantime, and as an emergency option in case of early/temporary debilitation, as well as something every new shooter can enjoy at the range.

I wish an extremely light weight, high quality .32 snub was still available to purchase new. That roughly 1/4 pound difference makes a difference.

[Up1911Fan]

I've gone to 327 LCR's loaded with BB 32 Longs.i really want a 32 H&R LCR on the lightweight frame.

[JHC]

.32 S&W J frames bring crazy money, and their front sight isn't compatible with the D&L sight installation, which is frustrating. Darryl sure likes the .32 and I thought the testing they did at the Gunsite revolver round up showed the Buffalo Bore wadcutter performing very well.

.32 all day and the 6th shot in a j frame is just gravy. I just have come to detest shooting .38 j frames.

[FNFAN]

.38 Special is my most often carried cartridge in the S&W 642. With the .38 options include very light recoiling wadcutters all the way up to rompin’ stompin’ 125 gr. JHP’s that hit the 1200 fps (4” bbl) that I’ve come to believe is ideal for a defensive load. Hand-loaders can expand the window of versatility even further. That doesn’t even address its usefulness in the little Marlin lever guns!

[Malamute]

I think much of the historical issues with 32 effectiveness are related to the RNL bullets used. RN bullets are pretty pathetic when used on game compared to anything SWC shaped. The issue doesnt just affect 32, RN in 45s arent exactly spectacular performers. I dont think a 32 S&W long is ever going to beat a 38 spl with any sort of decent load, but it can be substantially improved with better bullet shapes. Wadcutters are good, though they rent very good for longer distances, which some of us do regularly, even with the little pocket guns. The best use for a 32 for me is as a small game gun.

I went from a 640 to a Colt Agent, it gives the 6th round in 38 cal. Its light enough to carry daily in the pocket. Im fine with the size for that use even with pachmayr compac grips. For softer shooting the 38 Short Colt in standard velocity ( 125 gr @ 700-ish fps) are pretty mild. I think I may prefer that with a good bullet shape to a 32 for protection use.

Most of my ammo decisions are based on my own loads, factory loads are a very small part of my overall use. If I have or can get brass, Im OK for the most part. If in areas I think it will matter more then Ill use factory loads in a protection gun.

[Gun Mutt]

.32 all day for me. Don't care that I have to order Lost River or BB. I'll never shoot it as much as I dry fire it & my .32LCR has a muuuuch sweeter trigger than my pocket edc .22LCR.

I can absolutely see a future where a Lipsey's 342 w/Clip Draw becomes my sole j-frame and my .32LCR with Hamre Forge grips becomes my mom's pistol.

[JHC]

.32 all day for me. Don't care that I have to order Lost River or BB. I'll never shoot it as much as I dry fire it & my .32LCR has a muuuuch sweeter trigger than my pocket edc .22LCR.

I can absolutely see a future where a Lipsey's 342 w/Clip Draw becomes my sole j-frame and my .32LCR with Hamre Forge grips becomes my mom's pistol.

With the recoil of the Lost River .32s, I've got several .22 snubs to shoot volume though. This is just great.

[Elwin]

I think about this occasionally because I handload and I'm leaning towards using a revolver for any and all carry roles calling for something smaller and/or lighter than a 1911. I think I'm still going to stick with .38.

Part of that is just logistics and my hatred for unnecessary complexity. It's much like my standardizing on .45 as opposed to 9mm. Objectively, 9mm is probably, all things considered, superior to .45 for most defensive uses, and I'm sure for small to medium frame revolvers .32 is arguably a better choice than .38. But both .45 and .38 have one unique attribute, which is that I'll always have guns chambered for them, so the simpler thing to do is lean into that instead of fighting it by adding something else. For reference, I still have 9mm guns, but I don't plan to shoot them in volume such that I'd want to load for them. I can, however, avoid adding .32 altogether.

I also think the availability of more small, light .38s that have 6rd capacity is important. I am more comfortable with my LCR being a 5-shot if I can plan on eventually getting a Taurus, Colt, or Kimber 6-shot that will replace it for all but the smallest of small gun roles. I would definitely be more tempted by .32 if that wasn't the case and 6-shots of .38 wasn't a thing until you got to K frames.

[Stephanie B]

What, that this is "Hipster Central"? :)

For handguns? Where else?

[Brian T]

I dont even mess with my .38 J-frames (640-1 and 49) anymore. Not because I am afraid of capacity or the caliber, I frickin' love .38special. But ever since a friend let me shoot one of those pricey .32HRM S&W Js (I cant remember the model number), I've felt that it was perfect. The 6th round is icing on the cake, but the cake is a lower recoiling gun with a very capable pistol round. An acquaintance that recently passed away gave me some .32HRM brass, dies, and some projectiles for a project where I was gonna try to convert my 49 to .32HRM. So now that the new 432s are coming, why not work one of those in?

[Hambo]

I like my .327 for versatility as a field gun, but I'm all but done with revolvers as CCW guns.

[Dov]

So if you could have an otherwise identical revolver in .38 or .32, which way would you go? Obvious things that come to mind are cheaper ammo and snake shot available for the .38, and an extra cartridge and Buffalo Bore wadcutters for the .32.

Thoughts?

Before my health/age related issues I would and did go with 38 handsdown.

Now I am not so certain, I'd like to switch to 32 for less recoil, but at current moment really shouldn't spend the money on something like that.

My G26's still work for most of my pocket carry needs and don't bother me pain wise, and I can shoot the 38 Airwt J frame still, it will just semi cripple my hand for week+ after doing so.

[BobM]

I like my .327 for versatility as a field gun, but I'm all but done with revolvers as CCW guns.

Me too, as far as primary carry guns. I use my 642 mostly as a BUG. Once a week I wear a 43C in an Enigma to a yoga class. It carries three more rounds and I’d rather not carry my Spegel grips where they could get a little sweaty.

[JWintergreen]

I think the answer to this conundrum is the small frame .38 six shooter (the D frame sized revolvers).

.38 Special is honestly my favorite cartridge. A full power 158 grain load in a medium frame revolver is a thing of beauty. It does just about anything you need a handgun to do (outside of bear country) without the blast and recoil of a .357 Magnum. A mild wadcutter in a J or D frame size revolver also gives good penetration with mild recoil and report. There are also other great loadings on the market as well.

Throw in ammo pricing/availability, and it will be hard for the normal gun buyer to make the switch to a .32.

[Borderland]

For handguns? Where else?


I started to say.....

[HeavyDuty]

My 640 probably has the most time carried by me, it was a briefcase gun for fifteen years. But my 442 gets more carry now despite my hating actually shooting the thing. I still have a place for a small defensive revolver, the new .32 version has a lot of appeal.

[Joe Mac]

.32 H&R ballistics from a 2" barrel are far from impressive...more of a compromise than I'm willing to make for one more in the cylinder.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I am a fan of the 32s. I bought a 432 when they were being discontinued way back when for about $309. It is a very light and comfortable J frame for pocket carry. It's loaded with a 32 H&R Mag 80gr FTX Critical Defense as that was available. I am going to change to a Buffalo Bore wadcutters. When I practice, I shoot SW 32 Longs - Fiocchi. The sights are fixed but dolled up with orange.

I prefer it for lightness as compared to my 642 (not that I dislike that gun - loaded with Buffalo Bore snubbie wadcutters). Got speed loaders and strips for both for extra ammo in another pocket. I wear pants with lots of pockets.

I also have and have mentioned several times I have a SW 632, 3 inch as seen below. I modified it with a fiber optic front and white U on black rear sight.

114254

It is a hiking gun with Buffalo Bore 327s. While the local black bear is a fantasy probably (they do make it to the trails but not problems in years), the gun is comfy on my belt. I have small hands and I had a SW Model 19. It was a good gun, shot well after some work done. However, I like the six shot J frame size better for me. The 19 was too big for EDC for me. The 632 fit in its niche. I got it at Cabelas, they ran an ad for them at about $700 something as a companion to the 432 - I got it.

I've mentioned before that when you shoot it with full power 327s, it is ferocious. It slaps your hand if you don't expect the recoil (learned that) and it's loud and flashy in some rounds - Federal or Hornady.

Thus, for me and my size - it's the belt revolver. The 432 is the pocket gun of choice. Motivated now to take the 632 to our mini match - 3 stages, 60 rounds. SW 32 Longs though as the range director said NO magnum rounds indoors.

Would I buy one of the new ones, no - because I have these two. If I didn't, I might.

Folks are waiting for the NAA announcement and against speculating on a 32 HR mini revolver. As we know, their old prototype was a flop. If a new one is closer to J frame size - why? I frame maybe. But who knows.

[Totem Polar]

…but I'm all but done with revolvers as CCW guns.

I’d love to hear more on your reasoning, if you feel so moved.

:)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

EDC in the urban environments and a belt gun - I'm on the side of the semi and extra mags. Revolvers are for pocket dress circumstance or a walk in the woods. Just my opinion. Am I helpless with a revolver - NO. But if it's a belt gun, a semi gives you more for the space envelope. What does a big old SW Model 19 give me as compared to my G17s.

Flame war diversion - 32 in pocket for fun, not a razor in my shoe. Delicas in other pockets.

If you watch a Korean monster, zombie movie - watch them fight with J frames.

[Borderland]

I like my .327 for versatility as a field gun, but I'm all but done with revolvers as CCW guns.

I hear that. I screw around with revolvers and some other rifle and shotgun stuff but it's just because I'm interested. I can read all day about it but unless I can load for it and shoot it, it doesn't mean much. I purposely purchased a 31-1 (32 SWL) just to see what it was all about. I found out. It's easy to shoot. But if you want a good SD revolver a K frame or what ever the Colt, Taurus, Ruger equivalent is, that's the answer.

The 19-3 snubbie (K frame) I have is a perfect 38 spl revolver. I shoot it with 38 spl loads (some pretty hot) and it's a perfect combination of recoil and accuracy.

Single stack 9mm makes sense here if you want compact, easy to shoot with 8-10 capacity.

[Salamander]

If I lived east of the Rockies, then I'd seriously consider 32.

Rationale: Back when I was in an office environment most weekdays (pre-pandemic), a 38 J-frame was my typical carry. I played with 32 a little back then, and still have a set of dies on the reloading shelves. Now that I'm semi-retired and rarely in NPE's anymore thats become a moot point, and it's fairly easy to conceal here in the mild coastal climate. So I have other choices.

When I'm in a revolver mood, which is fairly often, I like the versatility of 38/357. In a D-frame Colt (3-inch King Cobra) I can carry six of anything from mild 38 wadcutters to heavy 357 solids and it hides better than a typical semi. For woods purposes, non-lead is a thing here and there are multiple good 38/357 options; if there's a good non-lead option in 32 I'm not aware of it (but haven't looked too hard in quite a while) and if still true that by itself is a deal killer for me. I hike a lot in Condor country where it's potentially enforced. Anywhere in the mountain west though, if it's a revolver I'd want bigger then 32 for beyond the trailhead, and larger/heavier than a J-frame. Yes I tried 327 Federal (in a SP-101) and found it unpleasant.

On the other hand, if I lived in the heartland where there are lots of large population centers and nothing non-human that's bigger than dogs/coyotes then a 32 pocket gun would be very tempting. But I don't, and I already have too many guns/calibers.

ETA: A quick search just now found an Xtreme Defender option, but that seems a little light for most parts of this state.

[Hambo]

I’d love to hear more on your reasoning, if you feel so moved.

:)

Sent you a PM, buddy.

[fatdog]

Having a battery of steel detectives and alloy Colt D frame Agents all tuned and stocked to my tastes, that I have accumulated over 30+ years just ruins this whole .32 thing for me. I am not getting on this bus.

If I want the extra shot in a small concealable revolver I already have it and it is a .38 with all the ammo options that provides. If this new Kimber alloy frame gun proves itself that would be one more option in the same size range.

I get the lower recoil thing, but I am just not there yet I guess. Federal Gold Medal match 148wc in any of my Colts is pretty darn low recoil, especially the detectives.

I too wish Ruger had the sense to make the LCR a 6 shooter from the start, but they were playing the me too game against the J frame when they really had a chance to utterly murder the J frame in the market by upsizing just a tiny bit to be a 6 shot.

[Bucky]

The problem with the modern revolver cartridge is, it’s too darn long. They were only made longer to prevent being chambered in their predecessor revolvers. However, the 38 special is entrenched as THE standard revolver defense cartridge.

[PTSDog]

I just sold off EVERYTHING related to 32SW L&S and 32H&R. I literally gave it away at the price asked for it. I sold the LCRs cause I just didn’t like them in that caliber. I loaded up on five different WC bullet designs to reload up the perfect loading for my 640s and 60s. I’m all in with the 38 Special!

So why am I thinking of two of the these ultimate 632s and browsing for Starline brass? At least it’s not me going back to one of my exes!

Seriously, I would pay for ANYONE of these ultimate j frames. And sure I will get two of the 642s and two of the 632s. I did sell off all of my 32 reloading stuff to a member here. Was getting ready for a divorce needed to down size. I didn’t think the LCR in 327mag was a bad pistol, just too heavy for the loads I shot, and didn’t have the grip options that worked for me. But in the LCRs defense, the 640/60 is too heavy for the 38 loads I shoot and I had to do some homemade add ons to their grips as well. But the j frame is my first love/hate and I will still with it. Who knows, maybe Ruger WILL offer the LCR with the lighter alloy frame in 32H&R. I would be a Beta Tester for it.

Another negative I didn’t like about the 32, and still don’t, it the smaller size of the cases. Yeah, duh. But for my damaged, strength compromised, RA riddled hands it sucks trying to handle the 32 cases at the range or reloading. And it will only get worste. I’m even going to 357 cases for my 38 WC loads due to the added length that makes it easier for me to handle. So that has to be figured in as well. I can always just buy more 32 speed strips and speed loaders and have them preloaded before range use. And just buy ammo to keep the reloading stuff down.


This is a personal nick pick, but I don’t like that back sight. I played with a 640 Pro and I much prefer my 640 with an orange XS front sight over the white or green front sights. I noticed I was snagging the Pro’s back sight on most of my pocket draws. I think I could move my thumb over to cover the back sight during the draw, like I use to do when covering the hammer on so equipped j frames. So that’s a work around. Everyone is different, but my eyes just don’t pick up green like they use to. But I’m sure XS will offer a replacement front sight in orange and white. Better yet, a nice DP red fiber optic front sight! But still the new green XS sight is MUCH better than the factory ramp with Dollar General orange nail polish in it.


So yeah, I will get two of each. LOL plus a couple of the new Beretta 30Xs and a pair of what else I see.

Jerry

[45dotACP]

I've had the chance to think it over...the .32 is of not all that much more use to me. The recoil? Ehhhh I can get stuff from mild to wild in .38. The higher capacity? If I wanted higher capacity in a pocket gun, there are numerous small autos to consider...My LCP custom holds 7 rounds...an LCP max holds up to 10.

And then there's the thought of terminal performance....I know at least one poster here who contends that a .380 or .38 special is sufficient to break a femur and is thus the smallest caliber they'd carry and that sounds pretty reasonable. I'm uncertain of the ability of a .32 long wadcutter to do the same.

[jandbj]

I just sold off EVERYTHING related to 32SW L&S and 32H&R. I literally gave it away at the price asked for it. I sold the LCRs cause I just didn’t like them in that caliber. I loaded up on five different WC bullet designs to reload up the perfect loading for my 640s and 60s. I’m all in with the 38 Special!

So why am I thinking of two of the these ultimate 632s and browsing for Starline brass? At least it’s not me going back to one of my exes!

Seriously, I would pay for ANYONE of these ultimate j frames. And sure I will get two of the 642s and two of the 632s. I did sell off all of my 32 reloading stuff to a member here. Was getting ready for a divorce needed to down size. I didn’t think the LCR in 327mag was a bad pistol, just too heavy for the loads I shot, and didn’t have the grip options that worked for me. But in the LCRs defense, the 640/60 is too heavy for the 38 loads I shoot and I had to do some homemade add ons to their grips as well. But the j frame is my first love/hate and I will still with it. Who knows, maybe Ruger WILL offer the LCR with the lighter alloy frame in 32H&R. I would be a Beta Tester for it.

Another negative I didn’t like about the 32, and still don’t, it the smaller size of the cases. Yeah, duh. But for my damaged, strength compromised, RA riddled hands it sucks trying to handle the 32 cases at the range or reloading. And it will only get worste. I’m even going to 357 cases for my 38 WC loads due to the added length that makes it easier for me to handle. So that has to be figured in as well. I can always just buy more 32 speed strips and speed loaders and have them preloaded before range use. And just buy ammo to keep the reloading stuff down.


This is a personal nick pick, but I don’t like that back sight. I played with a 640 Pro and I much prefer my 640 with an orange XS front sight over the white or green front sights. I noticed I was snagging the Pro’s back sight on most of my pocket draws. I think I could move my thumb over to cover the back sight during the draw, like I use to do when covering the hammer on so equipped j frames. So that’s a work around. Everyone is different, but my eyes just don’t pick up green like they use to. But I’m sure XS will offer a replacement front sight in orange and white. Better yet, a nice DP red fiber optic front sight! But still the new green XS sight is MUCH better than the factory ramp with Dollar General orange nail polish in it.


So yeah, I will get two of each. LOL plus a couple of the new Beretta 30Xs and a pair of what else I see.

Jerry
As the recipient of Jerry’s .32 sell off, I was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time. I also just bought a unicorn 432 for a reasonable $620 and am super psyched about these new 432UC models.

Semi-patiently awaiting rhamre high horn hooked & hookless grips since they’ll weigh less than the VZ G10 on the Lipseys guns.

[JHC]

So if you could have an otherwise identical revolver in .38 or .32, which way would you go? Obvious things that come to mind are cheaper ammo and snake shot available for the .38, and an extra cartridge and Buffalo Bore wadcutters for the .32.

Thoughts?

It must be maybe a year ago when DB, Chuck Haggard, and Demonstrated Concepts "Rusty" were on a long podcast. One point that Chuck made and IIRC DB seconded, was that when pulled in real life and death fights, pocket semiautos foul a fair bit of the time. He noted all the dashcame/bodycam examples of full size service pistols malf'ing under pressure and maintained the issue is even more acute with pocket semiautos. He may have speculated as to likely reasons for this but I can't recall it exactly.

But I know myself that under match/demo pressure I've seen my grip foul a G19 running a KKM comp that had previously sailed through several thousand calm training rounds without a malf. Adrenalized I was getting TOO high up on the backstrap.

The grip of a pocket sized semiauto doesn't leave me much room for error in the grip is how I look at it.

[BehindBlueI's]

With the understanding I'm boring:

.38 special. Whatever the .32 does or doesn't offer is not significant enough for me and my intended use of a small revolver to buy a new gun, to buy new reloading dies, to stockpile new brass, stockpile new carry ammunition, and load smaller/fiddlier rounds. If I was starting from scratch, maybe I'd care more.

[Scal]

I am excited about the new Lipsey’s Smith releases, and it seems like the caliber offerings for those guns are maybe prompting some of this interest. It is for me, at any rate. The thing that is stopping me from wanting to go all in on .32s is two things:

I am already well setup for reloading 38/357. I don’t have any 32 dies, and I know that 32 cartridges tend to be a bit more sensitive to error versus .38s. For plinking and practice ammo, I really need to reload, and I have been doing that for .38. So, that’s an extra annoying expense, but potentially doable.

The second and probably bigger thing: Is there a good hollow point load in 32 mag that has decent ballistic performance? I don’t want to carry handloads for defense. Liability and reproducibility of ballistic performance aside, I trust dedicated manufacturers to be able to source better powders and optimize ammunition performance more than I can do on my own. I know that .38 is already a somewhat bottom floor for performance, and if you want a round to meet FBI standards, or at least come close-ish, you have basically the Speer .38 gold dot short barrel load, and not much else. Is there even anything in .32mag that does this that is being produced? It seems like the plan is for hardcast wadcutters, and there’s nothing wrong with a good wadcutter load, but I don’t get warm fuzzies about having ammunition options limited like that. Trying to get good enough factory .38 performance is already quite hard, and it seems like .32mag is just going to be worse in this way. I can’t really see a good business case for a manufacturer to put any serious R&D resources into making .32 mag better performing for the handful of gun nerds that will buy it, versus putting resources into….well, virtually anything else, that would likely have a better ROI.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I was thinking that a revival of the 32s with reasonable 32 HR mags or SW 32 Longs that are not terrible in recoil could reinvigorate the suggestion that women buy J frames. The argument was that the recoil was fierce, etc. Of course, you have to train to shoot them reasonably by our standards. But for rarely shot gun crowd (Sigh), it might be attractive to them.

Next run with pink grips? I had a friend whose wife made him buy a pink 642 for more money. As far as ammo, if the guns are successful that might increase company runs. If the gun is for the hardly shot crew and not folks here who want to reload many runs, the demand might be met. I know quite a few wives in TX that had Taurus 85s in their purse with some standard HP. If they shot a box every two years, that was a lot.

[Notorious E.O.C.]

I'm all in on .32/.327 for the simple reason that I can run a couple of hundred rounds of .32 through an LCR in a single training session without losing the use of my shooting hand. Whatever's happening inside that complex assembly of tiny bones and connecting bits as it ages, it does not like .38 one bit.

I'd much rather have a gun I can shoot enough to build and maintain skill than a slightly larger-caliber gun I know I won't shoot enough to establish proficiency or trust.

[MolonLabe416]

I’ll be getting one of the new 32 Centennial revolvers. The extra round and improved sights, trigger are nice and the reduced recoil is needed. I just turned 66 and wear and tear on my hands, wrists, and elbows from 55 years of shooting is taking a toll.

[gato naranja]

The grip of a pocket sized semiauto doesn't leave me much room for error in the grip is how I look at it.

This is something I myself have found problematic over the years, and is largely why my DAO SP101 has stayed in the rotation. I used to take out old milsurp autos and get by with atrocious grip compromises, but the flies started showing up in the ointment once I hit the PPK. Things have not improved with age (I am not a fine wine).

Plinking may be a disdained practice among SMEs, but such impromptu casual familiarization has often revealed an issue with some variable that would have otherwise gone unnoticed. A shirt-tail member of the family recently did some cold-weather woodswalking and found that his current go-to subcompact 9 has at least one idiosyncracy that revealed itself. He had never done real any cold-weather work with it up to now.

The stuff you find out...

[BillSWPA]

I was thinking that a revival of the 32s with reasonable 32 HR mags or SW 32 Longs that are not terrible in recoil could reinvigorate the suggestion that women buy J frames. The argument was that the recoil was fierce, etc. Of course, you have to train to shoot them reasonably by our standards. But for rarely shot gun crowd (Sigh), it might be attractive to them.

Next run with pink grips? I had a friend whose wife made him buy a pink 642 for more money. As far as ammo, if the guns are successful that might increase company runs. If the gun is for the hardly shot crew and not folks here who want to reload many runs, the demand might be met. I know quite a few wives in TX that had Taurus 85s in their purse with some standard HP. If they shot a box every two years, that was a lot.

As one who has repeatedly voiced objections to recommending lightweight, small-frame revolvers to women, this makes sense. The changes appear to address the issues which resulted in my opposition to this recommendation, particularly in .32.

I know two female shooters who have hand/wrist issues, and who prefer revolvers to semiautos. They would probably do well with the .32.

[gato naranja]

I was thinking that a revival of the 32s with reasonable 32 HR mags or SW 32 Longs that are not terrible in recoil could reinvigorate the suggestion that women buy J frames.

This. Oh, so, "this!"

The .327 Fed Mag was a bridge too far for most women. Heck, it was a bridge further than even I was willing to go, and it ended my interest in .32s pretty much permanently.

Looking back, I probably advised a number of women who would have likely taken to a lower-horsepower .32 like ducks to water, but the guns were hard to find and I had come to a point where I was recommending very little between .22LR and mild .38 Special simply because these were not hobbyists or gun people.

[Lex Luthier]

This. Oh, so, "this!"

The .327 Fed Mag was a bridge too far for most women. Heck, it was a bridge further than even I was willing to go, and it ended my interest in .32s pretty much permanently.

Looking back, I probably advised a number of women who would have likely taken to a lower-horsepower .32 like ducks to water, but the guns were hard to find and I had come to a point where I was recommending very little between .22LR and mild .38 Special simply because these were not hobbyists or gun people.

The membership here as a group tend toward folks who non-gun folks trust for recommendations and advice. We tend to advise what is readily available because it's...well, readily available. If more usable options become easy to obtain, the better and more fine-tuned our recommendations can be. If these guns become a thing (and it looks like they might if Taurus is going to show what Caleb is hinting at) then we'll see more viable ammunition options as well.

I will be looking into at least one of the .32 variants as well as the .38. I intend to pass on the Model 36 no-dash (that I currently carry every day) to a grandkid within about 5 years, and my hands aren't getting less sensitive with time, either.
Given all the times here and on Instagram/FB etc that DB has mentioned his arthritis issues, I can hear the bass groove he's puttin' down. Herself would probably get on well with a .32 Long or even one of the milder .32 H & R Mag loads.

[gato naranja]

Given all the times here and on Instagram/FB etc that DB has mentioned his arthritis issues, I can hear the bass groove he's puttin' down.

The arthritis, the declining vision, the appreciation of a little extra weight for recoil and wobble reduction, the assurance of a smooth, controllable trigger rather than a hairy one... yeah, it's all in place now. Frankly, I have owned a lot of guns that actually sort of sucked to use even back in the day, but which the younger me was able to tolerate or compensate for; I was too proud to complain in any event.

Well, brothers and sisters, not any more!

When I take out a full size 92X at the range, I don't give a rat's rear what anyone thinks... hey, look at grandpa with his horse pistol. Well, I really AM a grandpa (by the grace of God), and still feel privileged to have learned to shoot what I did when I did, where I did. I'm also glad I can still shoot most guns well enough to occasionally gloat to myself, and if at the end of the session I don't feel like I slammed my hand in a car door, I'm way ahead of the game.

I will be keeping my eye on these new snubbies, because I may be old, but I am not too stubborn to admit a good thing as long as I can still perceive it.

114303

[PNWTO]

I’ve posted about it before; but with some nerve damage in my right arm, plus a broken elbow in that same arm, the elimination of recoil really is awesome. My last “real” training was a course with Bill Rapier and I couldn’t close my hand for about a day afterward. And that was “just” 600ish rounds with a G19.

So my LCR22 and LCR327 have really been beneficial. There’s also that fact that with two young kids I really have to force myself to give up the time to get to the range so every rep just has to count.

To the thread, and to repeat Pat Rogers via DB, .32 is a great “normal earth people” cartridge.

[Shawn Dodson]

The second and probably bigger thing: Is there a good hollow point load in 32 mag that has decent ballistic performance?

Federal 85gr JHP.

[jh9]

Federal 85gr JHP.

Any idea on what this does in gel out of a 2" barrel? Even if just bare gel / heavy clothing / 4LD?

[Stephanie B]

Federal 85gr JHP.


Any idea on what this does in gel out of a 2" barrel? Even if just bare gel / heavy clothing / 4LD?

If it doesn't perform well, it'd probably be worth it to just go with wadcutters.

[Lex Luthier]

Any idea on what this does in gel out of a 2" barrel? Even if just bare gel / heavy clothing / 4LD?

paging Lost River

(Something tells me he's likely setting up a line for .32 production)

[03RN]

Not my cup of tea but

https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/-32-keith-swc-125-gr-per-500.html

[Shawn Dodson]

Any idea on what this does in gel out of a 2" barrel? Even if just bare gel / heavy clothing / 4LD?

While I'm unaware of a test in properly prepared and calibrated Type 250A ordnance gelatin, there are some less sketchy videos on YouTube that give me reason to believe it reliably penetrates at least 12-inches in both bare and 4-layer denim covered gelatin. It expands modestly in bare gelatin and fails to expand in denim covered gelatin.

[revchuck38]

Federal 85gr JHP.


Any idea on what this does in gel out of a 2" barrel? Even if just bare gel / heavy clothing / 4LD?

Amateur gel block test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9fJy483wXY

[jandbj]

https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=356

And another hand-loader option.

https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/price-sheet

[Velo Dog]

Any idea on what this does in gel out of a 2" barrel? Even if just bare gel / heavy clothing / 4LD?

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/the-underappreciated-32-magnums/

[GJM]

paging Lost River

(Something tells me he's likely setting up a line for .32 production)

Like this:

https://www.lostriverammocompany.com/product/32-H&R-Magnum-100-Grain-Poly-Coat-Full-Wadcutter-100RDS

[Navin Johnson]

If Lipseys sells the initial run of 2000 .32 J frames as quickly as everyone seems to think….. and everybody who bought them saw the video and wants 100 (or more) rounds of LR wadcutters…..ya know …..math. Does LR have the capacity to load a half million rounds before the summer?

[Hambo]

If Lipseys sells the initial run of 2000 .32 J frames as quickly as everyone seems to think….. and everybody who bought them saw the video and wants 100 (or more) rounds of LR wadcutters…..ya know …..math. Does LR have the capacity to load a half million rounds before the summer?

Most people will be happy with a 20 round box of Federal.

[Rex G]

I stopped wanting to shoot .38 Specials right-handed, from J-Frames, by the time I had aged into my early forties. My wife now totes my only remaining J-snub, an Airweight based upon the 642. (Performance Center Model, stamped “M460,” made when every minor variant got its own model number.) .32 makes sense, for my uses, in J-Frames, preferably steel or stainless steel J-Frames. (In my Immortal Early Twenties, I had thought the S&W N-Frame .44 Magnum 629 was the perfect duty handgun, but, the laws of physics, and the laws of nature, caught up with me.) I would stand in the line, in the rain, for an all-stainless steel, Centennial-type concealed-hammer .32 J-snub.

As I see it, placing an oversized grip on a J-Frame, to tame the effects of recoil, causes it to occupy a K-Frame size envelope, in which case a K-Frame would seem to make more sense.

I have yet to try a Ruger LCR-series weapon, to fire either .32 or .38, so, remain unaware how they control recoil.

In the Ruger SP101, .38 Special and even .357 Magnum make the most sense, to me. I do have a 4” SP101, with an adjustable rear sight, .32 H&R, but it remains in indefinite reserve status, thus far. In my personal case, the factory OEM grip, for the SP101 reaches just far enough to brace against the “heel bone” part of my hand, which has always made the SP101 the better choice for accuracy and shot-to-shot recovery.

In the case of K-Frame and equivalent revolving pistol sizes, .38 Special seems the more-sensible option, to me, by far. I am a major fan of K-Frame 2” snub-guns, for regular daily carry. The K-Frame’s cylinder swings noticeably farther from the frame, creating more available work space for reliably ejecting empties, and for operating reloading devices. I do not normally carry speed-loaders for the SP101, but will normally carry speed-loaders for a K-Frame; it is about efficiency. (The best “speed-loader,” when toting an SP101, is a second SP101, or, a Baby Glock. ;) )

I do not have experience with the .327 Fed Mag, so, it does not play a part in my .32/.38 opinions. I would rather not publicly state uninformed opinions.

I formed my opinions regarding .38 Special in J-Frames during the 1983 to ~2002 time period, during which I used them almost daily, while on duty and during much personal time. Buying my second and third SP101(s), to complete a “pair & a spare*,” circa 2002, put my .38 Special J-Frames out of business, except for the rare, occasional pocket carry role, in lighter-than-usual clothing, with an Airweight.

*I did not stop at three. ;)

[Jamie]

Like this:

https://www.lostriverammocompany.com/product/32-H&R-Magnum-100-Grain-Poly-Coat-Full-Wadcutter-100RDS

This excellent quality .32 ammo.

I chronoed several rounds through my .327 LCR a few weeks ago and it ran right at 789 fps. Very consistent velocity.

I've been laid up with torn tendons in my ankle and unprecedented snow for Knoxville the past week. But hope to get to the range (Aircast and cane in hand) tomorrow and plan to shoot this round at varying distances. Results will be limited by lack of abilities as I have no doubt the ammo is more than up to the task.

I handload so I've loaded up a few hundred 100 gr WC for practice over the past week. My LCR likes this weight at as close to 800 fps as I can make it. Lost River is on to something good here.

[revchuck38]

On the American Fighting Revolver Patreon page, Bryan Eastridge has a review of the 856-based Taurus Defender Toro 327. I searched on YouTube and there aren't any videos there yet. It's a 3" DAO optics-ready revolver.

[gato naranja]

In the Ruger SP101, .38 Special and even .357 Magnum make the most sense, to me.

I formed my opinions regarding .38 Special in J-Frames during the 1983 to ~2002 time period, during which I used them almost daily, while on duty and during much personal time. Buying my second and third SP101(s), to complete a “pair & a spare*,” circa 2002, put my .38 Special J-Frames out of business, except for the rare, occasional pocket carry role, in lighter-than-usual clothing, with an Airweight.

*I did not stop at three. ;)

I guess that the fact that I no longer have any J-Frames around but thought enough of "The Rattler" to keep it all these years is testimony to my appreciation of the SP101.

114322

I no longer launch .357 Magnum out of it. Lead 148 gr target wadcutters are where this thing shines for me right now, controllability-wise. It's loose and a bit battered, but reliable and very well-mannered compared to a 642 or something similar.

The front blade is a replacement tritium dot that works fine, but the rear hog trough sight sucks more the older I get.

[BehindBlueI's]

I have yet to try a Ruger LCR-series weapon, to fire either .32 or .38, so, remain unaware how they control recoil.


I've broken my hand twice and am cognizant of the fact that wear and tear on my hand now affects quality of life later on a compounding basis.

LCR is more comfortable, at least with the OEM grip, to me. When I retire, I'll change to wadcutters to reduce recoil further, but am policy dictated to carry 'quality expanding ammunition' for now.

[HeavyDuty]

Like this:

https://www.lostriverammocompany.com/product/32-H&R-Magnum-100-Grain-Poly-Coat-Full-Wadcutter-100RDS

Lost River - please please please set up a stock notification functionality.

[Lost River]

Lost River - please please please set up a stock notification functionality.

I just sent your message to the guys who design/ do the website stuff for me. I absolutely agree that it is a feature that NEEDS to be available.

BTW, I have a large quantity of .32 components shipping in. My main supplier decided to send my last order to "backorder" w/o notifying me, so I have had to scramble to locate some other sources. Back on track now fortunately. Plus after a video dropped, I got wiped out! lol :cool:

[jh9]

If it doesn't perform well, it'd probably be worth it to just go with wadcutters.

Yeah it looks like a good baseline.

The posts with gel data are promising. The American Rifleman link matches what Shaw Dodson was saying about the 85gr Federal load. The Buffalo Bore "+P" 100gr JHP looks like it's getting in the low .40s and ~16" through both bare gel and heavy clothing, but it's knocking on the door of .327-level spicy. Not sure I'd want to shoot that in an aluminum gun. Maybe promising for a steel-frame LCR.

If the goal is lighter recoil the wadcutter may well be it. You can hot rod a .32 H&R magnum to get a JHP to perform, but it looks like if you do you're losing most of the benefit (except the 6th round).

[jandbj]

I've broken my hand twice and am cognizant of the fact that wear and tear on my hand now affects quality of life later on a compounding basis.

LCR is more comfortable, at least with the OEM grip, to me. When I retire, I'll change to wadcutters to reduce recoil further, but am policy dictated to carry 'quality expanding ammunition' for now.

Same reason I’ll be getting a 432UC with rhamre high horn grips with my version of the Lost Rivercentennial recoil mod… limbsaver pad on the backstrap.

[StraitR]

Turning the page on 50 earlier this month, the bump and grind of life has caught up with me physically. Back, hands, vision, all in noticeable decline. It is what it is, so I have no gripes. For weight/comfort reasons (lower back), I’ve become a J frame convert over the last few years, having a no-lock 638 on me more often than anything. But, as many have pointed out, it’s not something I especially enjoy shooting for extended range trips, as my hands are stiff for a few days if I overdo it.

Already had my firearm purveyor place an order with Lipsey’s for a 432UC. Now to find some 32 long WC ammo while keeping an eye on Lost River website.

[Stephanie B]

Already had my firearm purveyor place an order with Lipsey’s for a 432UC. Now to find some 32 long WC ammo while keeping an eye on Lost River website.

Question: Which is the better way to go; arranging a group buy or going through our LGSs? A group buy might have a better chance of being filled. On the other hand, we're all paying shipping and FFL transfer fees that add up to $50-$80 apiece. It used to be mitigated by not having to pay state sales tax on an out-of-state purchase, but those days are gone.

[Corse]

The first LGS I checked said lipsey’s wasn’t allowing them to place orders for these.

[Outpost75]

Any idea on what this does in gel out of a 2" barrel? Even if just bare gel / heavy clothing / 4LD?


About 850 fps from 2-inch snub

Expansion to .40 cal.

Stops in 4th gallon water jug.

You can get same performance from .32 S&W Long with 3 grains of Bullseye and 85 XTP in your S&W Model 30 or with 3 grains of AutoComp or Unique in a .32 ACP.

[BillSWPA]

The .32 seems to be what Bill Jordan hoped a .22 mag. J-frame would be, or perhaps better. .32 mag. seems to have energy levels roughly equal to standard pressure .38 spl., and many here seem to prefer the standard pressure .38 in the lightweight guns. If limited to that power level, it is not hard to imagine the difference between 5 shots and 6 becoming important.

I just checked a few online ammo suppliers. All had some form of .38 spl., but some had absolutely no .32. For that reason, I would tend to recommend .38 to a non-dedicated shooter who is not likely to buy ammunition in quantities of at least multiple hundred rounds at a time.

The last time a .32 J-frame was attempted, it was discontinued. I assume this was due to sales volume not justifying continued production?

In the spirit of Pistol-Forum enabling, perhaps the beast answer is one of each.

[GJM]

The .32 seems to be what Bill Jordan hoped a .22 mag. J-frame would be, or perhaps better. .32 mag. seems to have energy levels roughly equal to standard pressure .38 spl., and many here seem to prefer the standard pressure .38 in the lightweight guns. If limited to that power level, it is not hard to imagine the difference between 5 shots and 6 becoming important.

I just checked a few online ammo suppliers. All had some form of .38 spl., but some had absolutely no .32. For that reason, I would tend to recommend .38 to a non-dedicated shooter who is not likely to buy ammunition in quantities of at least multiple hundred rounds at a time.

The last time a .32 J-frame was attempted, it was discontinued. I assume this was due to sales volume not justifying continued production?

In the spirit of Pistol-Forum enabling, perhaps the beast answer is one of each.

I think we will see one or more major manufacturers coming to the party. Think chicken and egg.

[Outpost75]

I use the .32s for the same purposes that " normal people " would use a .22 rimfire for. With today's higher replacement cost for quality . .22 LR ammo loading for .32 S&W Long is more cost effective. The .32s are far more effective on larger small game animals and varmints than squirrels or bunnies and are stone killers on groundhogs, coyote, feral dogs, etc. I do not view the .32s as my first choice for personal defense, but they are FAR superior to any rimfire if they must of necessity, be forced into such roles.

With handloads the payload and velocity approximates of the .32 S&W Long approximates the .380 ACP or .32-20, with 3 grains of Bullseye producing 900 fps with 90-grain bullet from a 4-inch gun. A steel frame .32 ACP with 3.4" barrel does likewise with 3 grains of AutoComp or Unique.

The Models 30 and 31 S&Ws, are close to.perfection. Accurate 31-090B is THE bullet of choice in .32 ACP, .32 S&W Long, H&R Magnum, and .32-20.

114387114388

[Navin Johnson]

The .32 seems to be what Bill Jordan hoped a .22 mag. J-frame would be, or perhaps better. .32 mag. seems to have energy levels roughly equal to standard pressure .38 spl., and many here seem to prefer the standard pressure .38 in the lightweight guns. If limited to that power level, it is not hard to imagine the difference between 5 shots and 6 becoming important.

I just checked a few online ammo suppliers. All had some form of .38 spl., but some had absolutely no .32. For that reason, I would tend to recommend .38 to a non-dedicated shooter who is not likely to buy ammunition in quantities of at least multiple hundred rounds at a time.

The last time a .32 J-frame was attempted, it was discontinued. I assume this was due to sales volume not justifying continued production?

In the spirit of Pistol-Forum enabling, perhaps the beast answer is one of each.

Due to cost the "man bun" 32 is likely at an apex right now (from a cost effectiveness analysis). And yes it is a good round and has usefulness but likely will fade or not grow much.

[GJM]

Apparently .30 Super and the .32 J frame cartridge share enough in common, it is pretty easy for a major to gear up .32 production.

[farscott]

Since I already have .38 revolvers, I rather just purchase some .38 Long Colt brass, a set of .38 Long Colt dies, and load a pleasant-to-shoot round.

[RevolverRob]

Since I already have .38 revolvers, I rather just purchase some .38 Long Colt brass, a set of .38 Long Colt dies, and load a pleasant-to-shoot round.

Short Colt brass and dies. You can load the Short Colt with .357" bullets. The extra case length of the Long Colt brass doesn't get you anywhere (might as well stay with .38 Special brass).

Edit: I have never found .32 Mag to be more pleasant to shoot than .38 Special. .32 S&W Long - yes - but .32 Mag - no.

So, for me the advantage of the .32 revolver is directly related to the ability to hold 6-rounds in a 5-shot .38 sized gun. And possibly being able to crank them off a bit faster than I can five .38 Wadcutters

[Glenn E. Meyer]

You can get a Bond Derringer in 327 - https://www.theoutdoorwire.com/releases/5f0596d2-7d1f-47cb-b1ab-903b1c253dbb

Might fulfill my Yancy Derringer or Paladin fantasy. Given the gun weights 14 oz., it really doesn't offer much over the J frames. But it would be a 'just because' gun.

[WDR]

Semi-related tangent:

I've never shot any 110gr loads of any type from my J-frames, and it's crossed my mind to try some lighter wadcutters, in that 100-125gr range to see if I can get recoil down to similar levels as a .32 H&R. Having never shot any of the various 110gr stuff, I wondered if there is much perceptible difference in recoil shooting something like Barnes 110gr DPX or Critical Defense vs 135gr Gold Dot or 130gr Ranger Bonded? I assume they are loaded "hot" enough that recoil mitigation isn't really a reason to spend much time exploring those light factory loads, but I don't know what I don't know. I Know there is a light recoil Critical Defense load as well, but IIRC it's only a 90gr bullet.

I can currently manage 148gr wadcutter loads without issue, but I'm not getting and younger, and neither are my hands and wrists.

[farscott]

Short Colt brass and dies. You can load the Short Colt with .357" bullets. The extra case length of the Long Colt brass doesn't get you anywhere (might as well stay with .38 Special brass).

Edit: I have never found .32 Mag to be more pleasant to shoot than .38 Special. .32 S&W Long - yes - but .32 Mag - no.

So, for me the advantage of the .32 revolver is directly related to the ability to hold 6-rounds in a 5-shot .38 sized gun. And possibly being able to crank them off a bit faster than I can five .38 Wadcutters

Are you using the Lee .38 Short set or the sizing die from a .38 Special and a 9mm crimp die? The crimp die is not optimum, but it is short enough to work.

[Duelist]

Semi-related tangent:

I've never shot any 110gr loads of any type from my J-frames, and it's crossed my mind to try some lighter wadcutters, in that 100-125gr range to see if I can get recoil down to similar levels as a .32 H&R. Having never shot any of the various 110gr stuff, I wondered if there is much perceptible difference in recoil shooting something like Barnes 110gr DPX or Critical Defense vs 135gr Gold Dot or 130gr Ranger Bonded? I assume they are loaded "hot" enough that recoil mitigation isn't really a reason to spend much time exploring those light factory loads, but I don't know what I don't know. I Know there is a light recoil Critical Defense load as well, but IIRC it's only a 90gr bullet.

I can currently manage 148gr wadcutter loads without issue, but I'm not getting and younger, and neither are my hands and wrists.

CD 110gr are nicer from an airweight J than 130gr +P Ranger, or 125gr Win JHP +P. I haven’t directly compared other 110gr loads, but recently ran some 110gr Silvertips through an airweight J and a heavy barrel 4” M64. Much better through the heavier gun, of course. FGMM wadcutters are better through the airweight than the Silvertips.

[GJM]

114447

[GJM]

I just bought 160 rounds of the Federal personal defense 85 grain load, that the revolvers were regulated for, from SGAmmo. They had a Hornady Critical Defense load, is that as good as the Federal?

[Velo Dog]

I just bought 160 rounds of the Federal personal defense 85 grain load, that the revolvers were regulated for, from SGAmmo. They had a Hornady Critical Defense load, is that as good as the Federal?

The Underappreciated .32 Magnums | An Official Journal Of The NRA
https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/the-underappreciated-32-magnums/

[TheNewbie]

If ammo was of equal supply and equal cost, then no question I would opt for the .32. Less recoil and and an extra round would make it worth it, especially in a revolver that could be as small and light as possible.


Since .32 is far from king, I think .38 and 9mm revolvers make more sense for most people.


If the .32 becomes more popular and manufacturers really push the round and revolvers in it, then we can have some real change.


We need some “influencers” who realize that many, if not most, shooters would be better off with quality revolvers and triggers that aren’t “nice” 4 pound short pull triggers.

[Flamingo]

Are you using the Lee .38 Short set or the sizing die from a .38 Special and a 9mm crimp die? The crimp die is not optimum, but it is short enough to work.

I am not Rob, but when I load the 38 SC in my 550 I use the Lee 38 SC sizing die in station 1, a 9mm powder die in station 2, a 38 SC seating die in station 3, and a 9mm factory crimp die in station 4.

In my mid 1980s GP100 I shot some 9mm 124 Montana Gold JHP loaded in 38 SC brass and did not have any accuracy issues out to 10 yards (the max range for pistols at my range).

[WDR]

114447

Interesting. I assume they have other calibers too?

[Navin Johnson]

If ammo was of equal supply and equal cost, then no question I would opt for the .32. Less recoil and and an extra round would make it worth it, especially in a revolver that could be as small and light as possible.


Since .32 is far from king, I think .38 and 9mm revolvers make more sense for most people.


If the .32 becomes more popular and manufacturers really push the round and revolvers in it, then we can have some real change.


We need some “influencers” who realize that many, if not most, shooters would be better off with quality revolvers and triggers that aren’t “nice” 4 pound short pull triggers.

Video games brought the 5.7 to life and have created a generation that know nothing about revolvers.

When one goes to a gun store with other young people behind the counter, and almost no revolvers in the case, and a first time buyer who is video game /movie educated…..is that dude going to be switched to a 5 or 6 gun?

[Velo Dog]

Interesting. I assume they have other calibers too?



38 Special DT SnakeShot™ 20rds – Doubletap Ammunition
https://doubletapammo.com/products/38-special-dt-snakeshot-20rds

[idahojess]

Does a 32 HR Mag perform better than an extremely light .38, such as Hornady's Critical Defense lite?

[Noah]

Does a 32 HR Mag perform better than an extremely light .38, such as Hornady's Critical Defense lite?

Same weight and velocity with less diameter equals more penetration, very roughly.

[Velo Dog]

Does a 32 HR Mag perform better than an extremely light .38, such as Hornady's Critical Defense lite?

Comparing the American Rifleman results to the 2" barrel revolver test from Brass Fetcher...

https://www.americanrifleman.org/media/24qhgra5/chart_3.jpg?width=708&height=594

https://www.brassfetcher.com/Handguns/38%20Special/38%20Special%20Ammo%20Selection.html


Most 32 H&R Magnum loads will probably penetrate to roughly 38 Special 148 grain wadcutter depths of 15-16 inches and with similar average recovered bullet diameters of .38-.39 inches.

The 80 grain Critical Defense 32 H&R Magnum performs slightly better than the 90 grain Critical Defense Lite in 38 Special and slightly worse than the standard pressure 110 grain Hornady loading with average penetrations of 10 inches and .41-.46 inches of expansion.

[Shawn Dodson]

The Lost River wadcutter doesn't have optimized contours to maximize terminal effects.

The meplat MUST be flat with a SHARP shoulder.

I'd like to see a solid copper machined wadcutter for battle carry (i.e. loaded in the cylinder).

Then I'd like to see a solid-copper Keith-style semiwadcutter, with a sharp meplat shoulder, for reloads.

These designs will maximize wounding effects and make the bullets barrier blind.

No need to propel either of these bullets any faster than needed to penetrate 16-inches in properly prepared and calibrated Type 250A ordnance gelatin.

[RustWins]

The .38 was never a good round for such a small gun imo. The .32 h&r came out in the 80s, when .45acp and .357 mag reigned supreme, a time when 9mm was considered to be a round for "limp wristed Europeans." We've come a long way since then, and I think the time has come for .32 to take it's rightful place as the defacto king of the snub nose revolver round. Let's face it, recoil out of a .38 snub just plain sucks, and 5 shooter doesn't have the same ring to it as six shooter does. If we can get the momentum up for .32, I can foresee a day when you're lgs has .32 stocked for a reasonable price.

[Lost River]

Turning the page on 50 earlier this month, the bump and grind of life has caught up with me physically. Back, hands, vision, all in noticeable decline. It is what it is, so I have no gripes. For weight/comfort reasons (lower back), I’ve become a J frame convert over the last few years, having a no-lock 638 on me more often than anything. But, as many have pointed out, it’s not something I especially enjoy shooting for extended range trips, as my hands are stiff for a few days if I overdo it.

Already had my firearm purveyor place an order with Lipsey’s for a 432UC. Now to find some 32 long WC ammo while keeping an eye on Lost River website.

I have a bunch of .32 components shipping in. The response for .32s has been significant, (and to a degree the .38 WCs as well) so the plan is to ramp things up around here to meet the demand. That is also why I have been a little bit absent reference posting lately. :)

[mikey357]

I have a bunch of .32 components shipping in. The response for .32s has been significant, (and to a degree the .38 WCs as well) so the plan is to ramp things up around here to meet the demand. That is also why I have been a little bit absent reference posting lately. :)

Keep pullin' that handle--It's good for you! :)

[03RN]

Keep pullin' that handle--It's good for you! :)

Just keep pulling, just keep pulling, just keep pulling/Dory

Sorry if you guys miss the reference :o

[Lost River]

Just keep pulling, just keep pulling, just keep pulling/Dory

Sorry if you guys miss the reference :o


Pretty much most people with kids of a certain age are going to recognize that line.

That and any line spoken from the penguins of Madagascar! :cool:

[Bucky]

Just keep pulling, just keep pulling, just keep pulling/Dory

Sorry if you guys miss the reference :o

Wait, you're talking about a dick, right? :rolleyes:

[frozentundra]

Pretty much most people with kids of a certain age are going to recognize that line.

That and any line spoken from the penguins of Madagascar! :cool:

Time to slap some hippies!!

[Navin Johnson]

The .38 was never a good round for such a small gun imo. The .32 h&r came out in the 80s, when .45acp and .357 mag reigned supreme, a time when 9mm was considered to be a round for "limp wristed Europeans." We've come a long way since then, and I think the time has come for .32 to take it's rightful place as the defacto king of the snub nose revolver round. Let's face it, recoil out of a .38 snub just plain sucks, and 5 shooter doesn't have the same ring to it as six shooter does. If we can get the momentum up for .32, I can foresee a day when you're lgs has .32 stocked for a reasonable price.

GMM 148 is very easy to shoot out of a 12oz. 38. With a padded glove 158's are not bad. A steel trainer is always an option

The heaviest 32's (327's) are not pussy cats either. In other words ammo selection is a thing in every caliber

LGSs I have spoken to will order a 32 LCR SW ect but have no intention of stocking ammo

J frames are a low volume sales item and 32's currently are the smallest portion of that

[D-der]

GMM 148 is very easy to shoot out of a 12oz. 38. With a padded glove 158's are not bad. A steel trainer is always an option

The heaviest 32's (327's) are not pussy cats either. In other words ammo selection is a thing in every caliber

LGSs I have spoken to will order a 32 LCR SW ect but have no intention of stocking ammo

J frames are a low volume sales item and 32's currently are the smallest portion of that

Ditto...maybe I'll pick up a 38 and if 32's start becoming readily available on shelves consider one, otherwise it's $700 +/- plus another $500 to get started with ammo

[314159]

I once Fackler water tested the Hornady and Federal 85 grain loads with four layers of denim at 7 yards range. I recall about 6 rounds of each being expended as the water level dropped.

Good penetration but not a hint of any expansion from a 1 7/8 inch barrel.

Hardly a calibrated gelatin test, but I couldn't find any of those for reference.

The way forward is almost certainly what Shawn Dodson recommends. A Cirillo-style Safestop (the version without the scoring on the meplat). I really like the feature of the wadcutter extending out of the case a bit. Using a flush seated wadcutter can lead to confusion with an empty case.

[diananike]

Caleb just posted a short gel test.
The H&R mag snub didn’t expand through heavy clothing. But it did tumble twice and get out to 16”.
I think I’d prefer a good sharp wadcutter.

https://youtu.be/h0Fia-O_5nk?si=CaErhrkV8s7Vdzdo

[JHC]

I’ll take 16 inches by any means necessary. I don’t seek sexy expansion from sub calibers. Just punch deep. I’ve little doubt several options can do this.

[onehalfmvsquared]

Yes, penetration is king. the smaller the diameter, the more penetration preferred for me.

[CCT125US]

Looks like manufacturers need to spool up .32 HRM production. Cost and availability just isn't there right now. If folks jump into the 432UC without checking p/a, they're going to be in for a surprise.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Looks like manufacturers need to spool up .32 HRM production. Cost and availability just isn't there right now. If folks jump into the 432UC without checking p/a, they're going to be in for a surprise.

Cost may be an issue, but not necessarily availability. It may not be on the shelf at the LGS or chain sporting goods palace, but a quick search reveals:

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/32sw-long

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/32hr-mag

Lucky Gunner's testing:

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/#32HRMag

Using the Federal Personal Defense JHP or Hornady FTX or Lost River's offering for carry, and practicing with relatively cheap .32 Long ought to be doable for normal Earth peoples' shooting schedules.

My son and DIL are in the "thinking about it" stage of gun ownership. They realize that the odds are low for a visit from bad people, but also understand that if something did go down, grabbing a knife from the kitchen butcher block ain't realistic. They also are cognizant of safety concerns with three little ones in the house. The three youngsters also don't leave a lot of disposable income. My DIL works in real estate, and sometimes shows houses. Her boss and others in the company have CHLs, but all she has is pepper spray right now.

In all honesty, for a couple in their position and starting from scratch, I'm beginning to consider that their needs would be quite well met by one of the new Taurus 327 Defender TOROs (sans mounted optic, for now) and one of the new Smith 432/632 UCs, along with some speed strips, a modest gun safe, and a few judiciously chosen carry setups. Ammo availability locally is the only thing that makes me ponder whether .38 Special might be a better alternative.

[RJ]

Ammo availability locally is the only thing that makes me ponder whether .38 Special might be a better alternative.

I was curious about this, so I looked while I was at the fancy pants range this week. They had three 20 round boxes of Federal .32 H&R Magnum at $27.99 a box. Plus four boxes of Federal .327 Magnum, I didn't catch the price. That was it for .32. The shelf contained 20X that of .38 in various flavors.

[gato naranja]

My son and DIL are in the "thinking about it" stage of gun ownership. They realize that the odds are low for a visit from bad people, but also understand that if something did go down, grabbing a knife from the kitchen butcher block ain't realistic. They also are cognizant of safety concerns with three little ones in the house. The three youngsters also don't leave a lot of disposable income. My DIL works in real estate, and sometimes shows houses. Her boss and others in the company have CHLs, but all she has is pepper spray right now.

In all honesty, for a couple in their position and starting from scratch, I'm beginning to consider that their needs would be quite well met by one of the new Taurus 327 Defender TOROs (sans mounted optic, for now) and one of the new Smith 432/632 UCs, along with some speed strips, a modest gun safe, and a few judiciously chosen carry setups. Ammo availability locally is the only thing that makes me ponder whether .38 Special might be a better alternative.

A lady who is in real estate was talking with me last year about an incident that had spooked her enough that she wasn't sure she wanted to keep her license and continue in the business. She opted for some decent training and a permit, and went with a .38 Special snubby loaded with target wadcutters after renting a bunch of handguns. It was essentially the best "get off me" or "stop it" gun that she could conceal and operate without feeling overwhelmed. She had been advised to carry a speedloader, but had some trouble actually using it. Apparently nobody had thought to suggest speed strips as an alternative... an oversight which I rectified. She is not a "gun person," but a pretty sharp individual who did her due diligence.

The biggest issue I see with .32s that aren't too rambunctious is indeed availability of ammo. Until that changes, the average non-enthusiast is, IMO, better off with a .38 Special.

[CCT125US]

Cost may be an issue, but not necessarily availability. It may not be on the shelf at the LGS or chain sporting goods palace, but a quick search reveals:

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/32sw-long

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/32hr-mag



Took me a moment to realize the first link was to .32SWL, my thought was pricing sure did improve... Looks like the first 30 results or so are foreign manufacturers, speaks to lack of U.S. made backing. Also, how many folks would be aware that .32SWL can be used in their .32HRM? I've overheard many a shocked reaction when someone is told they can use .38 in .357. The response typically involves stating "my gun says .357".

Wonder what percentage of gun owners buy ammo online?

[RJ]

I asked this question over in the SHOT Revolver thread, but I think it got lost in the shuffle:



Also: it's stated gun is regulated to "standard pressure 148 gr. Wadcutter loads". Forgive me, but what would be the typical velocity in fps out of a snubby barrel when Lipsey's says "standard pressure WC"? I'm just trying to compare what this gun is regulated to, to the .38 ammo I have on hand. My "standard" for Wadcutter is Federal Gold Medal Match, which Federal says is 690 fps, for instance.

Jamie has done some recent work chrono'ing .38 special loads. He was kind enough to do Federal Gold Medal Match 148 WC, with data below:




@RJ

Federal GGM 148 gr WC
LCR
Oak Ridge...cold and rainy... :(
CE ProChrono

746-748-743-747-739 Avg fps= 744.6

So is 750 or so out of a snubby "standard pressure" for a 148 gr WC load?

[Chuck Whitlock]

I was curious about this, so I looked while I was at the fancy pants range this week. They had three 20 round boxes of Federal .32 H&R Magnum at $27.99 a box. Plus four boxes of Federal .327 Magnum, I didn't catch the price. That was it for .32. The shelf contained 20X that of .38 in various flavors.



The biggest issue I see with .32s that aren't too rambunctious is indeed availability of ammo. Until that changes, the average non-enthusiast is, IMO, better off with a .38 Special.

I wonder if the greater availability of the broad spectrum of .38 Special loads might actually be a detriment for the average non-enthusiast gun owner. The number of different loads available could have him or her grabbing a box of ammo that is not suited to their particular weapon or mission, such as too much blast/flash/recoil versus not enough penetration.

If my people do get a weapon, I can tell them "Practice with this (#1) ammo, and carry this (#2) ammo.", with direct links to where to get them. I can do that for any caliber, though. I'm going to assume that the volume they would be shooting won't be high enough to establish a clear cost advantage between .38 and .32.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Also, how many folks would be aware that .32SWL can be used in their .32HRM? I've overheard many a shocked reaction when someone is told they can use .38 in .357. The response typically involves stating "my gun says .357".

Wonder what percentage of gun owners buy ammo online?

I'm not going to take the time and trouble to worry about the great, unwashed masses.

I will happily educate those in my sphere of influence who are willing to listen.

[Chuck Whitlock]

So is 750 or so out of a snubby "standard pressure" for a 148 gr WC load?


Rich,

"Standard Pressure" is generally "not +p or +P+". I am not sure what the pressure cut off between them is per SAAMI.

[RJ]

Rich,

"Standard Pressure" is generally "not +p or +P+". I am not sure what the pressure cut off between them is per SAAMI.

Chuck, yeah I am not nearly as versed in .38 loads as most of ya'll here. I just shoot what I buy off the shelf, which normally has been the Gold Medal Match Wadcutter.

I was just curious about the mention in the Lipseys video in respect to the new Ultimate Carry J frame that the gun's sights were regulated to "Standard Pressure" ammo. So I assume what I have (GMM) is standard pressure. That makes sense.

Thanks!

[BN]

Chuck, yeah I am not nearly as versed in .38 loads as most of ya'll here. I just shoot what I buy off the shelf, which normally has been the Gold Medal Match Wadcutter.

I was just curious about the mention in the Lipseys video in respect to the new Ultimate Carry J frame that the gun's sights were regulated to "Standard Pressure" ammo. So I assume what I have (GMM) is standard pressure. That makes sense.

Thanks!

Yes, your Fed GMM is standard pressure. Here is an example of a +P higher pressure load at Lost River's site. https://www.lostriverammocompany.com/product/38-Special-P-148-Grain-Hard-Cast-Full-Wadcutters-100-RND

[Navin Johnson]

I asked this question over in the SHOT Revolver thread, but I think it got lost in the shuffle:



Jamie has done some recent work chrono'ing .38 special loads. He was kind enough to do Federal Gold Medal Match 148 WC, with data below:



So is 750 or so out of a snubby "standard pressure" for a 148 gr WC load?

The 148 gold medal match is rated at 690 out of a test barrel on federal’s website so I believe the velocity from the LCR are incorrect

[BN]

The 148 gold medal match is rated at 690 out of a test barrel on federal’s website so I believe the velocity from the LCR are incorrect

I got 605 fps out of my 442 and 655 fps out of a 4" M-10. I got 665 from a 2" Taurus 856 today. I really like my new Garmin.

[revchuck38]

Recent production GMM went 689 fps from my M49 snubby. Recent production Remington WC went 683 from the same gun during the same range session. Older versions of the Federal load were a good bit slower, about 635 fps from a snubby.

[Stephanie B]

I've overheard many a shocked reaction when someone is told they can use .38 in .357. The response typically involves stating "my gun says .357".

I went shooting with a bunch of friends. One was shooting a 4" GP.100 that she had bought used. Lots of fireballs and recoil. I gave her a box of .38s. She looked and them and said "but my gun is a .357." I assured her that .38s would work and to try them. She did. Big lightbulb moment.

[RJ]

Interesting about velocity of GMM... I just received some recent production and am headed to the range to vet it this week.

I have 5 rounds left of my previous batch, which has been in my LCR for...far to long, let's say. I'll shoot that cylinder and then load the new, will report back on any subjective differences, in terms of whether the new production batch has more perceptible oomph. For comparison I just went through 50 rounds of Ted's standard pressure WCs, which he lists as "S&W 1&7/8ths" J Frame: 750 FPS".

[Jamie]

The 148 gold medal match is rated at 690 out of a test barrel on federal’s website so I believe the velocity from the LCR are incorrect

This may well be so.
Not trying to mislead nor bullshit anyone on this.

I'll grab that same box of GGM along with some Georgia Arms I have and chrono them again out of my LCR and I'll bring along my old 640 Smith.
Maybe it won't be 42 degrees and raining...

This was from March of this year:
"Georgia Arms Snubby Self Defense .38 spl ammo
148 gr Lead Wadcutter (? Zero bullet)
ORSA Oak Ridge, TN
Ruger LCR 754 fps
S&W (1992 Model 640) 735 fps
S&W Model 10 791 fps"

I completely agree the GGM should definitely be running slower. I just posted the numbers I got.
(I should have checked my own older data.)

I'll try again and see what shakes :)

Just give me a few days.

[BN]

There are fast guns and slow guns. There also fast chronographs and slow chronographs. All results posted are within margins of error.

I shoot a lot of 22 LR over the chrono looking for the magic, most accurate ammo. I have several rifles and they all shoot the same exact lot of ammos at different speeds.

When I get a nice day I'm going to chrono using both my Garmin and Competition Electronics at the same time just for fun.

[willie]

Velocity variations from gun to gun are the rule--even when using the same ammo lot. My opinion is that Federal or Remington or any other company publishes a nominal velocity for each caliber. The published velocity is an approximate number.

[Lex Luthier]

Recent production GMM went 689 fps from my M49 snubby. Recent production Remington WC went 683 from the same gun during the same range session. Older versions of the Federal load were a good bit slower, about 635 fps from a snubby.

Apropos of nothing, but I’m glad you got that M49. It looked like a nice one in the Gunbroker ad.

[revchuck38]

Apropos of nothing, but I’m glad you got that M49. It looked like a nice one in the Gunbroker ad.

It's the prettiest blued S&W I have. Until I got it, it was the quintessential "sock drawer gun", except that a previous owner had installed a spring kit in it and I couldn't get five "bangs" out of a cylinder. A factory mainspring fixed that. I've got about 5-600 rounds through it.

[Jamie]

When I get a nice day I'm going to chrono using both my Garmin and Competition Electronics at the same time just for fun.

I would be really interested in seeing what difference, if any, you get doing the side by side comparison.

I've counted on my CE for a number of years and historically got results that aligned with known velocities from known platforms.

I fully admit that my GGM chrono results from last Sunday were done in the worst weather I've ever chronoed in. It should be sunny to partly cloudy this coming Sunday and I plan to repeat the GGM and I have some of Ted's .32 H&R Mag rounds I'll run through my .327 LCR (I believe he list velocity in an LCR on the box.)

RJ and all here deserve correct data. :)



Edited because I can't spell...

[Chuck Whitlock]

I wonder if the greater availability of the broad spectrum of .38 Special loads might actually be a detriment for the average non-enthusiast gun owner. The number of different loads available could have him or her grabbing a box of ammo that is not suited to their particular weapon or mission, such as too much blast/flash/recoil versus not enough penetration.

Another metric popped to mind this morning. .38 Special loadings on the shelf can have bullet weights ranging from 90 grains to 158 grains, with lots of choices betwixt and between. How prone will the average non-gun-person gun owner be to vetting that the load they randomly pull off the shelf regulates to their sights?
I recently got a box of 110 grain Hornady Critical Defense to try as a reload. No-go. Shot very low left in both my M37 and SP-101.

I fully admit that I haven't paid much attention to the .32s until they began being promoted by Chuck Haggard, DB, Cecil, etc. But a quick look on ammoseek shows a range of 83-115 for .32 Long and 80-130 for ,32 HR Mag. And the 130 and 118 look like singular outliers, so 80-100 grain. Appears like much less range of variation to work with.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Interesting about velocity of GMM... I just received some recent production and am headed to the range to vet it this week.

I have 5 rounds left of my previous batch, which has been in my LCR for...far to long, let's say. I'll shoot that cylinder and then load the new, will report back on any subjective differences, in terms of whether the new production batch has more perceptible oomph. For comparison I just went through 50 rounds of Ted's standard pressure WCs, which he lists as "S&W 1&7/8ths" J Frame: 750 FPS".

Rich,

I honestly am just going to carry either Ted's load or the Georgia Arms snub load in my M37, and practice with whatever round is cheapest, pleasant to shoot, and hits to the sights.

[GJM]

Arrived on the brown truck today.

114704

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I dug into the ammo cave today to load up for our 60 ish round match which I intend to shoot with my 632. Found a baggie of Black Hills 32 HR mag that enabled me to fill up 12 HKS 32 6 round speed loaders. Expensive match in terms of ammo. I have a few hundred of various 32s - SW Long wadcutters, RNL, 32 Mag HP, 327s. I once had a 500 round case of Fiocchi 32 SW Long FMJ - my favorite for fun and haven't seen it lately. Shot it out.

[Velo Dog]

https://shotshow.org/new-ammo-coming-in-2024/

"New to the High Terminal Performance line of ammunition is the HTP .32 H&R Magnum load that fires an 85-grain JHP bullet at a muzzle velocity of 1,120 fps, making this a suitable self-defense round for .32 H&R magnum revolvers and a great low-recoil personal-protection load for .327 Federal revolvers. But the HTP load is not the only new .32 H&R Magnum offering from Remington this year. The new Performance Wheelgun .32 H&R Magnum load fires a 95-grain semi-wadcutter hollow point bullet at 1,020 fps, making it a great all-round .32 H&R option for small-game hunting, defense, and target shooting."

[Velo Dog]

This video from Chris Baker is worth (re)watching

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz_m4M8CAe0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz_m4M8CAe0

[BN]

There are fast guns and slow guns. There also fast chronographs and slow chronographs. All results posted are within margins of error.

I shoot a lot of 22 LR over the chrono looking for the magic, most accurate ammo. I have several rifles and they all shoot the same exact lot of ammos at different speeds.

When I get a nice day I'm going to chrono using both my Garmin and Competition Electronics at the same time just for fun.


I would be really interested in seeing what difference, if any, you get doing the side by side comparison.

I've counted on my CE for a number of years and historically got results that aligned with known velocities from known platforms.

RJ and all here deserve correct data. :)


Today was a nice day, even though a little cold. I set up both Chronographs so I could shoot out of my garage window using a bench rest. Each shot was recorded on both chronographs at the same time. First I shot 70 rounds of different brands of 22 LR rimfire from my CZ 457. Velocities were consistently reading within 3 to 5 fps of each other for all rounds fired. I would look at the reading from the Competition Electronics and I would know without looking that the Garmin reading would be 3 to 5 fps faster. It was consistent for every shot.

38 Special ammo was just as consistent between chronographs. Today 6 shots of 148 grain Fed GMM averaged 661 fps from my 2" Taurus 856. A couple of days ago it was 665 fps. This was recent manufacture in the gold box. I had some left of older manufacture red box Fed GMM. It was 665 fps today. A couple of times on different days in the past the same ammo was 601 and 607 fps in a 1 7/8" S&W 442. The 442 is a slower gun.

The GMM shot to the tip of the front sight on my Taurus 856 with the Ameriglo front sight at 25 yards on an A/C steel IPSC target. The first group looked to be around 3" or so. I also shot some Gold Dot 135 +P. Velocity was 840 fps and it was hitting 8" to 12" low with a poor group. It wasn't as pleasant to shoot either.

It's interesting to see that there was a 30 fps spread between the slowest and fastest shot in each cylinder full. So, if i would happen to get a cylinder full of the fastest rounds, compared to a cylinder full of the slowest rounds, my average velocity would be much different. Things aren't always as exact as we would like them to be. ;)

[Jamie]

Today was a nice day, even though a little cold. I set up both Chronographs so I could shoot out of my garage window using a bench rest. Each shot was recorded on both chronographs at the same time. First I shot 70 rounds of different brands of 22 LR rimfire from my CZ 457. Velocities were consistently reading within 3 to 5 fps of each other for all rounds fired. I would look at the reading from the Competition Electronics and I would know without looking that the Garmin reading would be 3 to 5 fps faster. It was consistent for every shot.

38 Special ammo was just as consistent between chronographs. Today 6 shots of 148 grain Fed GMM averaged 661 fps from my 2" Taurus 856. A couple of days ago it was 665 fps. This was recent manufacture in the gold box. I had some left of older manufacture red box Fed GMM. It was 665 fps today. A couple of times on different days in the past the same ammo was 601 and 607 fps in a 1 7/8" S&W 442. The 442 is a slower gun.

The GMM shot to the tip of the front sight on my Taurus 856 with the Ameriglo front sight at 25 yards on an A/C steel IPSC target. The first group looked to be around 3" or so. I also shot some Gold Dot 135 +P. Velocity was 840 fps and it was hitting 8" to 12" low with a poor group. It wasn't as pleasant to shoot either.

It's interesting to see that there was a 30 fps spread between the slowest and fastest shot in each cylinder full. So, if i would happen to get a cylinder full of the fastest rounds, compared to a cylinder full of the slowest rounds, my average velocity would be much different. Things aren't always as exact as we would like them to be. ;)

Thank you!

This will give me a solid comparative baseline if I can get out and chrono tomorrow.

I think I'll toss a box of the .38 spl Winchester Ranger 130 gr +P (RA38B) into my range bag as well.

It looks to be nearly 60 tomorrow with some sunshine. Looking forward to the results.
I don't doubt at all that my GGM will give similar velocities as yours. But it'll be interesting to see if my LCR is "faster" than my 640 across the board, or not. :)

I'll list each reading as that's good data to include r/t each cylinder full. Thanks for that!

[jandbj]

https://youtu.be/NvkydtvPVs0?si=-kRDi6UTsWMzD4I4

[idahojess]

https://youtu.be/NvkydtvPVs0?si=-kRDi6UTsWMzD4I4

I like that fellow's videos -- he does a good job.

[UNK]

Yes, your Fed GMM is standard pressure. Here is an example of a +P higher pressure load at Lost River's site. https://www.lostriverammocompany.com/product/38-Special-P-148-Grain-Hard-Cast-Full-Wadcutters-100-RND

Im pretty sure thats the round he recommended for my steel 101 in 357. I doubt it would be pleasant in a lw 38. For myself I quit worrying about if its going to open or not and go for penatration.

[jandbj]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/116051500134?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=a_vrySYCSK6&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=u6CIUqDiR6S&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Just ordered one of these ☝️

[Lost River]

Friends,

I put a bunch of 32 H&R wadcutters up on the website yesterday. more than half have already sold, but for those who were asking to let it be known here, I am letting everyone know. :)

Been a bit busy as of late, but will catch up on posting and check in with everyone soon!!

[StraitR]

Friends,

I put a bunch of 32 H&R wadcutters up on the website yesterday. more than half have already sold, but for those who were asking to let it be known here, I am letting everyone know. :)

Been a bit busy as of late, but will catch up on posting and check in with everyone soon!!

Order placed. Thanks for the heads up, Ted.

ETA: I’m getting older, so I may have just imagined it, but was there also a 32 S&W Long offering not long ago? If so, will that be returning?

Cheers

[jandbj]

https://www.sgammo.com/product/32-sw-long-ammo/50-round-box-32-sw-long-100-grain-wad-cutter-bullet-ammo-sellier-bellot-sb32

Stephanie B posted these recently in one of these .32 threads.

[StraitR]

https://www.sgammo.com/product/32-sw-long-ammo/50-round-box-32-sw-long-100-grain-wad-cutter-bullet-ammo-sellier-bellot-sb32

@Stephanie B (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=9715) posted these recently in one of these .32 threads.

I certainly appreciate you looking out. I sourced some of that same S&B ammo from my go-to vendor last week. Im hoping to get @Lost River (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=4952) offering as well, if it’s made.

I’ve been enjoying Ted’s commentary and photos here for the better part of 12 years now, and I couldn’t be more happy about giving the man my money for what I’m sure is top shelf ammunition whenever I can.

[Jamie]

This may well be so.
Not trying to mislead nor bullshit anyone on this.

I'll grab that same box of GGM along with some Georgia Arms I have and chrono them again out of my LCR and I'll bring along my old 640 Smith.
Maybe it won't be 42 degrees and raining...

This was from March of this year:
"Georgia Arms Snubby Self Defense .38 spl ammo
148 gr Lead Wadcutter (? Zero bullet)
ORSA Oak Ridge, TN
Ruger LCR 754 fps
S&W (1992 Model 640) 735 fps
S&W Model 10 791 fps"

I completely agree the GGM should definitely be running slower. I just posted the numbers I got.
(I should have checked my own older data.)

I'll try again and see what shakes :)

Just give me a few days.


Well, I’m an idiot… Part 1:

The .38 spl velocities I chronoed and posted per RJ’s input were not, in fact, Federal GGM…simply rotated revolver ammo I placed in the box. They were the Georgia Arms 148 gr WC Defensive load. So yes. 750 fps should be expected from them. Rookie dumbass mistake and you would have thought the Starline brass would have caught my attention.

The box of GGM I grabbed to take to the range was a partial box and instead of placing my rotated rounds (the Georgia Arms) in a ziplock bag (as I routinely to for a later range trip) I obviously, in a senior moment, put them into the GGM box…

My sincere apologies to all and thank you folks for catching that mistake. < embarrassment >

The actual Federal GGM velocities =
664-641-640-635-630. Avg. 642 fps in my LCR.
652-644-645-644-645. Avg. 646 fps in my 1992 S&W 640

Lost River “Standard Pressure” 148 gr WC velocities:
765-779-768-744-784. Avg. 768 fps in my LCR
765-766-727-763-772. Avg. 758 fps in my S&W 640
(Ted lists these at 780 fps out of an LCR on his website iirc)
Obviously these had a “snappier” recoil compared with GGM but very pleasant to shoot in both snubbies.

Winchester Ranger 130 gr +P
783-820-755-796-804. Avg. 791 fps in my S&W 640
862-788-854. Avg. 834 fps in my LCR

Why only 3 rounds in my LCR?

Idiot mistake # 2.

I killed my chrono. Murder!
One round of Winchester 130 gr +P through it heart (head I guess actually) was all it took. Damn!

Over 10 years and countless rounds over my ProChrono. Best $120.00 I had ever spent… <sigh>

[BN]

I killed my chrono. Murder!
One round of Winchester 130 gr +P through it heart (head I guess actually) was all it took. Damn!

Over 10 years and countless rounds over my ProChrono. Best $120.00 I had ever spent… <sigh>

I've heard that the light bullets shoot low. ;)

A buddy killed two chronos in the same day.

[Jamie]

I've heard that the light bullets shoot low. ;)

A buddy killed two chronos in the same day.

I can personally attest to that fact! LOL

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This thread motivated me to buy a new OWB J frame holster from JM Custom. I even splurged a bit to get red carbon fiber to jazz it up. It looks very nice against the guns. Going to run them in a week or two.

[RJ]

Georgia Arms back open, apparently.

https://www.georgia-arms.com/

[RJ]

I have 5 rounds left of my previous batch, which has been in my LCR for...far to long, let's say. I'll shoot that cylinder and then load the new, will report back on any subjective differences, in terms of whether the new production batch has more perceptible oomph.


Right, so I put 5 carry Gold Medal Match (old stock), 10 HSM 148 WC (“725 fps”) HSM-38-1-N, and 10 GMM (new stock) (“690 fps”) through my LCR today.

Bear with me, as this is all "seat of the pants" feel, but the new stock (purchased 2024) GMM was notably punchier than the old stock GMM (2021 maybe?), shooting them back to back. And the HSM is a bit stouter than the new GMM. LCR now up to 704 rounds, and shoots the new stock GMM to point of aim at 7 yards with a dot hold.

In terms of descriptive terms, I'd rate my perception of recoil of the last few ammo types I've tried as follows (I started using "Hot" "Warm", "Standard", and "Mild" in my .45 ammo spreadsheet, it seems convenient to me because I don't have one of them fancy-pants chrono thingies. :cool:).


Lost River Ammunition standard 148 gr WC - Warm

HSM-38-1-N 148 WC - Standard
Federal GMM (2024 production) - Standard (-)

Federal GMM (old production) - Mild
Fiocchi Training Dynamics 38LA - Mild
Sellier & Bellot Wadcutter .38 Special SB38B - Mild

I like how the GMM feels, and it doesn't beat up my hands so much I don't shoot it. So plan is to continue to practice and carry the Federal Gold Medal match, now I have sufficient quantity to last me a year or two.

[fatdog]

because I don't have one of them fancy-pants chrono thingies.

C'mon man, do we need to revoke your engineering degree? (okay you are retired and maybe don't care) These are the low end of the market (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1015050210?pid=626107) but they work just fine.....you do need one....don't have to have the fancy radar versions to get numbers...

[RJ]

C'mon man, do we need to revoke your engineering degree? (okay you are retired and maybe don't care) These are the low end of the market (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1015050210?pid=626107) but they work just fine.....you do need one....don't have to have the fancy radar versions to get numbers...

Hah…that does look pretty cool. I didn’t know they were under $100…

[BN]

C'mon man, do we need to revoke your engineering degree? (okay you are retired and maybe don't care) These are the low end of the market (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1015050210?pid=626107) but they work just fine.....you do need one....don't have to have the fancy radar versions to get numbers...


Hah…that does look pretty cool. I didn’t know they were under $100…

Enablers enabling. It's what we do here at P-F.

[Lost River]

I certainly appreciate you looking out. I sourced some of that same S&B ammo from my go-to vendor last week. Im hoping to get @Lost River (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=4952) offering as well, if it’s made.

I’ve been enjoying Ted’s commentary and photos here for the better part of 12 years now, and I couldn’t be more happy about giving the man my money for what I’m sure is top shelf ammunition whenever I can.

I just put another 1,000 rounds of 32 wadcutters up on the webstore and will have more available by Monday. Ordered more components last week, so I expect that they should be regularly available. It is crazy how popular the poly-coated WCs have been.

[gato naranja]

I just put another 1,000 rounds of 32 wadcutters up on the webstore and will have more available by Monday. Ordered more components last week, so I expect that they should be regularly available. It is crazy how popular the poly-coated WCs have been.

I suspect that between people who have been around the block too many times and new shooters who want a controllable snub with no drama, poly coated wadcutters at moderate velocities would be good sellers. There are still some of us who have not gottten over the disappearance of the "non-plus-P" .38 Special Nyclad factory load.

[willie]

I understand the appeal of lightweight aluminum frame snubs and have several. However, the all steel J frames, being heavier, have less felt felt recoil with obvious advantage.

Because I have no experience with 2 inch 32 revolvers, I will show my ignorance and state that I don't see their advantage. Yes, I can read published velocity numbers. If I owned one, would I carry it? Of course.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The lighter guns are more comfortable for pocket carry. Next, 6 shots works out for 2 shots for 3 opponents vs. 2x2 and then 1. Of course, the multiple attackers may be gun fantasy - except I avoided a possible criminal interview with 5 shot, trying to figure out the 'match' strategy, if need be. Next, the variety of loads exist but that does for 38 / 357 5 shot guns. Yes, there are 6 shot snubbies but it goes back to an easy pocket gun trade off.

If it's not a pocket gun that's comfy for me, then back to the belt Glock.

[JEC]

I just put another 1,000 rounds of 32 wadcutters up on the webstore and will have more available by Monday. Ordered more components last week, so I expect that they should be regularly available. It is crazy how popular the poly-coated WCs have been.

I shot another 50 rounds of Lost River 100 gr 32 load through my sample 632UC Friday. All I can say is at 10 yards there was one ragged hole right in the middle of a B8. No discomfort at all after 50 rounds. It’s what I’ll be carrying in mine. .

[jeep45238]

JEC

Will it be possible to order the sights for these guns, either directly or through the manufacturer? Asking for a 640 Pro....

[JEC]

JEC

Will it be possible to order the sights for these guns, either directly or through the manufacturer? Asking for a 640 Pro....

That’s a good question. I’ll have to ask.

[jeep45238]

That’s a good question. I’ll have to ask.

It might be pretty incredible - especially given the feedback on the old 640 pro threads talking about poa/poi for different loads and general sadness.

Flip side, I may have ordered .32 ammo for a gun I don't have.

[JEC]

It might be pretty incredible - especially given the feedback on the old 640 pro threads talking about poa/poi for different loads and general sadness.

Flip side, I may have ordered .32 ammo for a gun I don't have.

The only hang up I see is the 640 Pro has a dovetailed front sight and the UC is pinned. Would have to find the right height dovetailed front to work with the UC rear. I’d have to see if XS makes any options here.

[jeep45238]

The only hang up I see is the 640 Pro has a dovetailed front sight and the UC is pinned. Would have to find the right height dovetailed front to work with the UC rear. I’d have to see if XS makes any options here.

If XS is willing to offer different height rears (w/o tritium), that would probably be more than sufficient for most, while only needing a small program change to their CNC program.

Just thinking out loud :)

[JEC]

If XS is willing to offer different height rears (w/o tritium), that would probably be more than sufficient for most, while only needing a small program change to their CNC program.

Just thinking out loud :)

S&W is making the rear sights on the UC.

XS is only making the fronts.

[jeep45238]

S&W is making the rear sights on the UC.

XS is only making the fronts.

Same concept - the rears will probably be easier to swap/adjust without damage due to width. Just thinking out loud, it might be an easy way to get a higher profit margin part on the market.

Especially if you were able to take an existing 640P, group with common ammo, and essentially find a height that will replicate the same POA/POI on the 442/642 UC's for the 640P for an end-user swap item.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Motivated by the discussion and an upcoming match - when I was getting dressed today to go out to Whole Foods (I know - wife likes some of their stuff), I passed on my usual OWB Glock 26 and OWB extra mag (Galco kydex).

Instead, I put on my new JMK frame holster in a pretty red for J frames and on the other side a Sidewinder Speedloader/ Moon Clip Pouch. I carried my SW 632 that I've described before - 3 inch SS, hammered, comp'ed, fiber optic front site. It was loaded with Hornady 327 mag. I thus had 12 rounds on board as compared to 21.

The area is really low crime (which is meaningless if there actually is an incident), so playing the odds I usually rail against.

Since I decided to shoot this rig (with some more speed loaders than one) in a match, decided to install the 'rig' and give it a drive. Also, for some drying firing.

My thoughts, it was comfortable. The gun was easy to get to and the grip just leaped into your hand. However, for it's size and weight, it wouldn't be a primary EDC (maybe in the woods with BB Hard cast). The 26 is easier and more oomph and rounds.

See how the match goes - of course, not time competitive but I'm not anyway. I'm going to shoot Fed 32 HR Mag as I've said 327s would cause multiple heart attacks among the crowd and beat up my hand. Why not SW Longs - just an experiment but one stage is just a draw and six round and I think I'll do a load of wad cutters for that one.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I have a question for those who are experienced .32 users.

We know that shooting a lot of .38s in .357 Magnum revolvers leaves a ring at the case mouth in the chambers, which then can give issues when switching back to the longer Magnums. Does the same thing occur when shooting .32 Long in a .32 H&R Mag or .327? And if so, how much of an issue is it?

[jh9]

I have a question for those who are experienced .32 users.

We know that shooting a lot of .38s in .357 Magnum revolvers leaves a ring at the case mouth in the chambers, which then can give issues when switching back to the longer Magnums. Does the same thing occur when shooting .32 Long in a .32 H&R Mag or .327? And if so, how much of an issue is it?

I can't speak to .32s specifically... but in tens of thousands of rounds through a handful of revolvers where I was mostly shooting .38 lead reloads in IDPA and then popping off magnums either for fun, to rotate out carry ammo or even shooting the occasional match with them just cuz... It's never been a problem for me. Or if it was I never noticed it. 1990s-2010s vintage stainless guns exclusively, though.

I'd guess this is mostly a factor in some guns had rough chambers to begin with. Or shooters who were even more lackadaisical about cleaning than I am. The longer cases dragging on more fouling might put it over the line for stiff extraction. But I don't think that behavior is guaranteed, and if it shows up in one particular gun I would bet it could be dealt with by polishing the chambers.

edit: at the time to me a deep cleaning was something done every ~6 months or so. I'd actually clean the gun and then go shoot automatics for a few months. Rinse and repeat. In between matches I'd never do more than 4-5 passes through the chambers/barrel with a dry bronze brush, hit cylinder face and forcing cone to prevent any real buildup, then use a nylon brush on the star. The gun was usually filthy by the time it got a deep clean but absolutely functional. I never had an issues going back and forth between specials and magnums.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The SW 632 at a mini match. 3 inch SS, hammered, comp’ed, fiber optic front sight, White U on black rear

1. Indoor USPSA match. 4 stages.
2. Two twenty four round, typical set up.
3. Draw and fire six rounds
4. Three targets (one a tuxedo), draw fire 2,2,2 free hand, reload, 2,2,2 strong hand
Indoor distances, so not very far or close up. Don’t have exact distances.

The gun is fine to shoot as far as trigger. From a JMK holster – new and I like it. Got it in red.

My score – not so hot. Why? Well, I realized I haven’t fired that gun in 5 years. I did spend some time drying firing, drawing in the basement. The problem is the sights. Guess what, I can’t really see the fiber optic anymore, it’s a small tube and with indoor lighting, no discernable glow. I shot high I think due to my alignment not working. I had previously thought I had adjusted it but not yesterday and too many shots were above the center mass A zone. Not to the left or right, just too high. Oh, well. Old eyes!!
When I have a chance, I think I will have the sight set up replaced with some of the more highly visible sight types we see on the new Js. I think I want a fixed rear also. It’s not a target, distance gun anyway for my usage.

Ammo:
I shot various types as experimental.
1. Mostly Federal Personal Defense Revolver 32 H&R Magnum 85 Grain – on the 24 stages. Worked just fine. The recoil in that gun is trivial.
2. Fiocchi 100 Gr Lead Wad Cutter in the six shot target – can’t even feel the recoil. Went off well! Note – in TX, shot hundreds of Fiocchi FMJ SW Long without a hitch
3. Magtech – 32 SW Long, LRN, 98 gr.
a. Hiss boo
b. Smokey as all hell
c. TWO DUD IN EACH CYLINDER FULL – FOR TWO MIKES.

Why – let’s have a picture. On the left is the Magtech, one the right is the Federal. The Magtech looks like a pin prick. The Federal is a solid strike. The Wadcutters were like the Fed, nice hit.

115196

Reloading: Like I said, haven’t shot the gun in a bit. I used HKS speedloaders, dug out of the box o’ stuff. Put them in Safariland Speedloader holders, those are the metal clip on to your belt. They worked fine for a match and not a pain to get on and off, wore 5 of them. I don’t use a USPSA velco rig, just a CCW type leather, everyday belt for gun and holster.
The 32 rounds being little in diameter where a touch wiggly in quickly getting into the chambers. Perhaps with more practice but 6 little rounds was slow. However, with the profile for the LRN or HPs, wasn’t that bad. Loading the wadcutters from the speed loader was a royal, alignment pain. Forget doing that in real time on DA STREEZ – at least for me. 38s are much easier to load in my 642.

I didn’t shoot my 432, maybe next time. Take away – it a good gun, my eyes need better sites. Magtech -blah, shoot it up on the square range or just keep in the ammo cave till TEOTWAWKI. I certainly would not have a problem with this being a limited number of opponent guns (mandatory Internet fantasy). Since it is a belt gun – it’s not a primary EDC. It gives me no advantage over my G26. The 432 is still an easy pocket carry gun with 6 shots though. That’s what it’s good for.

[Ghost Dog]

Very Nice...
Saw a vid of the .32 85gr Fed round in homemade Organic expanded really good in 2 layer denim, and even pretty decent deformation in 4 layer denim. That makes .32 H&R legitimate to me, as does the old DT 75 grain, though that seems to have dried up and it's 60 grains that are out there.

[Wood]

Ammo:
3. Magtech – 32 SW Long, LRN, 98 gr.
a. Hiss boo
b. Smokey as all hell
c. TWO DUD IN EACH CYLINDER FULL – FOR TWO MIKES.



ah heck, Magtech's .32 Long wadcutters are the easy stuff to find in my lgs. slightly dreading getting my LCR to the range now, session might be a lot of double-striking those things.

Great report tho, thank you. After taking a look around a lot of local and not-so-local gun shops in the past few weeks, I've found that .32s of various sizes aren't too hard to find, but prices are about what you expect - not great vs .38 special. My excitement for the upcoming 632UC has cooled a tad. If that trigger tune is as good as they say, I'll end up taking one home anyway eventually.

[UNK]

As long as you can get Lost River .32 i think its a great idea. I only care about penatration out of a J and his ammo has that in spades. Plus for the recoil sensitive practice, Im thinking specifically for non dedicated females which my family has a few of, with a less powerful round. If I can manage to get one in 32 they all will be going to the range for a trial run.
I wouldnt give up the 38 however. I would carry either caliber myself. Actually Id prefer to have another caliber in Js because if you cant get one you might be able to get the other.

[GJM]

In Alaska and Montana, I like the idea of being able to load the new revolver with this load, and carry it as a back up. At this velocity, it should poke a hole in a bear's skull.


115453

[CCT125US]

In Alaska and Montana, I like the idea of being able to load the new revolver with this load, and carry it as a back up. At this velocity, it should poke a hole in a bear's skull.


115453
Looking forward to an epic ".32 HRM as a field pistol" thread.

[GJM]

Looking forward to an epic ".32 HRM as a field pistol" thread.

I will leave that to someone dumber, I mean braver, than me.

[Lost River]

While I went out in the super crappy weather yesterday to shoot the G21.5,


***

it was blowing snow and crap sideways***


https://i.imgur.com/yJXroWRl.jpg

I finished up by shooting a couple cylinders of ammo through my Ruger LCR at a paper plate set at about a car lengths distance. Maybe 7 yards. I was shooting my 100 grain poly coated wadcutter loads. It just impresses me what a significant difference there is between these little .32 WCs and your typical .38 loads.


The Ruger just stacks them in there.


https://i.imgur.com/csICbttl.jpg

I kind of get a kick out of how small the holes are. :)

Really looking forward to getting my hands on one of the Lipsey's Ultimate J Frames.

[PNWTO]

Good show, Lost River, those little wadcutters feel like a centerfire cheat code.

I love my LCR327, eagerly awaiting the 327 TORO to check out as do-everything-kinda-okay piece. Especially in the central Cascades where the biggest four-legged caution is usually a cow that’s spent a winter or two solo.

Thanks to nerve damage even basic .38 gets uncomfortable after awhile if the gun is less than 20oz or so.

[Lost River]

Normally I say the answer when it comes to recoil in .38 Special guns is the .38 Short Colt.

It really works quite well. Light recoil and fun to shoot.

I thought I had made enough for folks while I get caught up in other areas. I put out a fair bit on the website, and it was gone in 24 hours. Did not expect that. Lesson learned there! I guess the word is out :cool:

[Jim Watson]

And for Something Entirely Different, there was the cowboy shooter who got a "set" of guns in .32 H&R; two Ruger "Vaqueritos" and the scarce Marlin lever action. Did he get them for powder puff power to just ring a plate? Nope, he loaded them to the SASS maxima of 1000 fps revolver, 1400 fps rifle. Just to be different, I guess.

[revchuck38]

And for Something Entirely Different...

Are you sure you didn't mean this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlCbFu5dpc8

[Polecat]

.32 without a doubt, BUT with similar availability and pricing. I was gonna get one of the new 442 UCs, but thamk God the sight didn’t work, so I didn’t buy! Shot my 642 PC and remembered why I love the .32! I think if more get on the bandwagon it will make a resurgence, great round. I also think .32 ACP should be exploited more! Imagine a pocket Glock, Pocket Sig, Walther CZ etc. The smaller round makes WAY more sense in these tiny guns! More controllable and little lost ballistically.

Whil I am at it .30 Super Carry. The youtube idiots all comment on “ a question nobody ask,” that is so tiring. Put a 9mm ballistic equivalent in a compact or sub, not to mention micro, and the lights would go on. I was a huge hater until I shit a rental shield. It was loud, but flat shooting, crazy accurate fun and more mild.

[Jim Watson]

Whil I am at it .30 Super Carry. The youtube idiots all comment on “ a question nobody ask,” that is so tiring. Put a 9mm ballistic equivalent in a compact or sub, not to mention micro, and the lights would go on. I was a huge hater until I shit a rental shield. It was loud, but flat shooting, crazy accurate fun and more mild.

Oh dear. I thought I had gotten over my enthusiasm for a Shield Plus .30 SC 13 shooter to double the capacity of my G43 hideout gun.

[nate89]

I've been a fan of the 32 snubs for awhile, but own 38s and 32s. As someone who handloads about 99% of my practice ammo, once I bought a supply of 32 starline brass the 32s have actually been cheaper to load than the 38s (cheaper bullets and less powder). I was lucky to find a large quantity of 100 grain jacketed flat point bullets from American Reloading last year, which has been my primary projectile for practicing lately, but there are a variety of coated bullets out there as well. When the Lipsey's guns were announced I told a friend of mine that my 432 just took a big hit in value and I couldn't be happier! He immediately placed an order for the 432, and I will be right behind him to get a second j frame in 32.

As Bryan from AFR has mentioned several times, it wasn't that long ago that 380 was a dead or dying caliber, and guns like the Ruger LCP brought it back into the mainstream again. I hope to see a greater use of 32 caliber firearms in the future, both revolvers and semi autos (I would really enjoy an LCP and LCP max in 32 for one).

[CCT125US]

nate89 - how many loadings are you typically getting from your Starline brass in .32?

I'm sitting on 100, plus 100 of the loaded Lost River offering.

[Outpost75]

10 in T/C Contender barrel chambered for .32 H&R Mag. Strain gage at SAAMI location with computer interface to Oehler M43PBL by Larry Gibson firing .32 S&W Long handloads in R-P cases with CCI500 primer.

Hornady .312" XTP 100 grain HP, 8.5 grains IMR4227, OAL 1.170"

Velocity in 10" Contender 997 fps, 32 Sd, 68 ES, 20,200 psi, Sd 1100, ES 2300
Vel. in 3" S&W Model 30. 787 fps, 18 Sd, 46 ES

Hornady .312" XTP 85 grain JHP, loaded as above with 3 grains Bullseye
Velocity in 10" Contender 990 fps, 17 Sd, 45 ES, 16,800 psi, Sd 400. ES 900
Vel. In 4" S&W Model 31. 906 fps, 9 Sd, ES 25

[Shawn Dodson]

Whil I am at it .30 Super Carry. The youtube idiots all comment on “ a question nobody ask,” that is so tiring. Put a 9mm ballistic equivalent in a compact or sub, not to mention micro, and the lights would go on. I was a huge hater until I shit a rental shield. It was loud, but flat shooting, crazy accurate fun and more mild.

I think .32 Super Carry would be more successful if it was tweaked to shoot an 85gr XTP bullet at 1000 fps, and fit it in .380 sized pistols. It'd reliably give better terminal performance than just about every .380 load in a smaller .380 sized pistol like an LCP.

[fatdog]

Mrs. Fatdog had 24 years of .mil experience with the M9 even as a rear echelon support person and had to wear one and live with one every single day while on her overseas tours in far sandy places. When she retired and the 92 was no longer "the gun" to her we tried a lot of stuff I owned and she picked the USP/c LEM as her new gun and does quite well with it on the range. But not being the committed carrier, and even then being mostly off body, it tends to stay at home most all of the time. Based on past experiences, she will not touch my M12's, D frames or J frames even with Federal GMM wadcutters. We tried several rimfire revolvers but the triggers are just to stout, of course you start lightening those and you finally get light strikes. As a net result she is armed less of the time Vs what I wish. She is absolutely uncomfortable with all the small autos as well, both 9mm and .380's and we have tried many.

For this reason only, the hope of getting her comfortable with something she will actually carry more often, and that we trust, I jumped in on the Ruger 327 with Ted's excellent H&R wadcutters this Spring. I hope this goes well and works out, if so the 432/632 UC might join the collection as well some day when prices start approaching MSRP. So here I dive into .32 H&R, starline brass inbound to produce practice fodder.

The out of the box trigger on this specific 327 is far nicer than any of the previous 38 special versions I have owned, so lucky on that count I guess, not even contemplating a spring kit.

Wish me luck on the project. If she will adopt this paradigm I think she will find lots more carry options for it that are acceptable to her than what we have with the USP/c now.

This type of user may indeed be the strongest case for the .32 H&R snub over the longer term, not those of us who are totally comfortable with .38 special or various semi-auto pocket guns.

117493

[HeavyDuty]

The unavailability of the new UC series J frames has me reconsidering whether a LCR would actually be a better choice in a pocket .32 for me. Currently a 42 usually gets the nod for pocket carry, and occasionally a 442.

[Navin Johnson]

The UC's are a production item so if one has lived their whole life without one they could likely wait a few more months

I know someone who would be well served with a small low recoil revolver and the rimfires triggers suck so a 32 has some real utility. Ammo is the issue as none will pass IWBA standards and the rest is boutique. (nothing wrong with some of the small shops but will they be around and will they continue to make it when the new newness 32 is less new?) My guess is LCP's outsell 5 shot revos 10-20 to 1. So not sure private shops are going to go all in on 32.

Ruger would do well to make an aluminum LCR in 32 mag (said before as 327 is a whole different animal and steel LCR is 4oz heavier) assuming once the first wave of early adapters is done there will be a market.

Local Cabelas has no 32/327 of any kind. One small shop has some 32 ball and not sure I have ever seen 327

Right now for your average recoil sensitive person a LCR 357 (heavier) with standard pressure wadcutters might be the answer. (LCRs have better triggers and less felt recoil IMHO) Or a 640/SP101

[HeavyDuty]

The UC's are a production item so if one has lived their whole life without one they could likely wait a few more months

I know someone who would be well served with a small low recoil revolver and the rimfires triggers suck so a 32 has some real utility. Ammo is the issue as none will pass IWBA standards and the rest is boutique. (nothing wrong with some of the small shops but will they be around and will they continue to make it when the new newness 32 is less new?) My guess is LCP's outsell 5 shot revos 10-20 to 1. So not sure private shops are going to go all in on 32.

Ruger would do well to make an aluminum LCR in 32 mag (said before as 327 is a whole different animal and steel LCR is 4oz heavier) assuming once the first wave of early adapters is done there will be a market.

Local Cabelas has no 32/327 of any kind. One small shop has some 32 ball and not sure I have ever seen 327

Right now for your average recoil sensitive person a LCR 357 (heavier) with standard pressure wadcutters might be the answer. (LCRs have better triggers and less felt recoil IMHO) Or a 640/SP101

This.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Local Cabelas here had about 10 boxes of Critical Defense 32 HR. Lots of 30 Super Carry too. I have plenty of 327 for my 632 in 327 mag. But I don't shoot it that much, so it should last for a long time.

[frozentundra]

.....But not being the committed carrier, and even then being mostly off body, it tends to stay at home most all of the time. Based on past experiences, she will not touch my M12's, D frames or J frames even with Federal GMM wadcutters. We tried several rimfire revolvers but the triggers are just to stout, of course you start lightening those and you finally get light strikes......

.....This type of user may indeed be the strongest case for the .32 H&R snub over the longer term, not those of us who are totally comfortable with .38 special or various semi-auto pocket guns......





Ruger would do well to make an aluminum LCR in 32 mag (said before as 327 is a whole different animal and steel LCR is 4oz heavier) assuming once the first wave of early adapters is done there will be a market.


I think an aluminum .32 H&R LCR, loaded with Lost River wadcutters, and sporting a Raven Vanguard (that unfortunately doesn't exist either), would be just about the best carry option for a whole class of people.

I've been experimenting with my .327 LCR, wearing Hamre hook grips, and a Fricke Zaccheus trigger guard for long distance running. If you lightened this up by another 1/4 pound, and had a Raven Vanguard, it would be unbelievably comfortable, shootable, and versatile for many different carry positions.

Everyone enjoys shooting my LCR with wadcutters. Everyone. It completely transforms the look on people's faces from a grimace/squint to a smile when sighting in. Ammo price and availability doesn't matter when it turns the experience of practice from hate to enjoyment.

[Navin Johnson]

I think an aluminum .32 H&R LCR, loaded with Lost River wadcutters, and sporting a Raven Vanguard (that unfortunately doesn't exist either), would be just about the best carry option for a whole class of people.

I've been experimenting with my .327 LCR, wearing Hamre hook grips, and a Fricke Zaccheus trigger guard for long distance running. If you lightened this up by another 1/4 pound, and had a Raven Vanguard, it would be unbelievably comfortable, shootable, and versatile for many different carry positions.

Everyone enjoys shooting my LCR with wadcutters. Everyone. It completely transforms the look on people's faces from a grimace/squint to a smile when sighting in. Ammo price and availability doesn't matter when it turns the experience of practice from hate to enjoyment.

See Shawn Dodson’s comments concerning Lost River’s 32 wadcutters if they are for defensive purposes.

[Jamie]

Ruger would do well to make an aluminum LCR in 32 mag (said before as 327 is a whole different animal and steel LCR is 4oz heavier) assuming once the first wave of early adapters is done there will be a market.



Absolutely on my "want/wish" list should it come to pass.

I hope to pick up a 432 UC when they become locally available and the current retail price jump settles. I know it varies all over the place right now. That's OK because it demonstrates folks are embracing the concept.

I've had my .327 LCR for a couple of years now (June 2022). Since I handload, and already had a good stock of components, I find myself shooting it more and more. I find it really like rounds approaching 800 fps in 100 gr loads, like Ted's poly coated .32 H&R rounds. They are my round of choice for carry in this gun.

But I still find myself carrying and shooting my .38 spl LCR, or Smiths, more often. Choices/options are a good thing.

I hope this works out for the Missus fatdog :)

[frozentundra]

See Shawn Dodson’s comments concerning Lost River’s 32 wadcutters if they are for defensive purposes.

I just like these for the increased depth of penetration compared to the .22 rimfire options that have questionable primers and heavy triggers. Penetration is more important to me than the sharper edges on some of the other .32 wadcutters as well. Although, I would also prefer regular .32 wadcutters to .22.

After mechanical function, I value straight line penetration out of a little pop gun the most. But that is just my personal bias.

[4given]

Would a 7 shot .32 H&R Taurus 856 Ultra Lite be possible?

[feudist]

Would a 7 shot .32 H&R Taurus 856 Ultra Lite be possible?

They went the 6x327 route on the steel 856 frame.

[4given]

They went the 6x327 route on the steel 856 frame.

I know. I wonder if they can squeeze in 7 rounds of .32 H&R with its lower pressure.