Springfield Echelon Department Adaption

[Tokarev]

It doesn't say how many guns or what these will replace. Was the department using XDs previously?




Springfield Armory is proud to announce that the Geneseo Police Department in Illinois has recently adopted the Echelon 9mm pistol.

The Echelon was designed to set a new standard for modern, striker-fired duty pistols. With a host of revolutionary patent-pending features, this modular and highly adaptable handgun is engineered with superior ergonomics and built to withstand the harshest conditions.

Driving the modularity of the design is the Echelon’s patent-pending Central Operating Group. Employing cutting-edge manufacturing techniques, it’s an entirely self-contained and serialized stainless steel chassis. The result is a system that is easily moved between available grip modules in seconds.

To support this adaptability, the Echelon features interchangeable grip modules for a firearm that fits a wide range of officers’ hand sizes. The pistol comes standard with the medium grip and three interchangeable backstraps, while small and large grip modules can be purchased separately. The three backstraps are designed to fit all three grip sizes.

Further adding to the fully ambidextrous Echelon’s adaptability is its truly innovative Variable Interface System. This system employs patent-pending self-locking pins that exert lateral pressure on the optic’s interior mounting surface for consistent and reliable point of aim/point of impact. The pins can be positioned to fit the footprints of more than 30 popular optics, allowing for an unparalleled direct-mount fit.

In addition to adopting the pistols for their officers, the Geneseo Police Department also acquired Safariland Level III Retention Holsters and Surefire X300 weaponlights through Springfield Armory. The Geneseo Police Department also worked with Springfield to top off their pistols with Trijicon RMR HD red dot optics. Springfield Armory provided the department with transition training as well as armorer course training.

“Springfield Armory strongly supports the Geneseo Police Department and is proud to work with them on providing firearms for its officers,” said Fred Mincks, Springfield Armory’s Law Enforcement Sales Manager. “The Echelon’s highly adaptable and modular design — along with its rugged durability and impressive performance — make it a great choice for the department.”

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[Texaspoff]

It doesn't say how many guns or what these will replace. Was the department using XDs previously?




Springfield Armory is proud to announce that the Geneseo Police Department in Illinois has recently adopted the Echelon 9mm pistol.

The Echelon was designed to set a new standard for modern, striker-fired duty pistols. With a host of revolutionary patent-pending features, this modular and highly adaptable handgun is engineered with superior ergonomics and built to withstand the harshest conditions.

Driving the modularity of the design is the Echelon’s patent-pending Central Operating Group. Employing cutting-edge manufacturing techniques, it’s an entirely self-contained and serialized stainless steel chassis. The result is a system that is easily moved between available grip modules in seconds.

To support this adaptability, the Echelon features interchangeable grip modules for a firearm that fits a wide range of officers’ hand sizes. The pistol comes standard with the medium grip and three interchangeable backstraps, while small and large grip modules can be purchased separately. The three backstraps are designed to fit all three grip sizes.

Further adding to the fully ambidextrous Echelon’s adaptability is its truly innovative Variable Interface System. This system employs patent-pending self-locking pins that exert lateral pressure on the optic’s interior mounting surface for consistent and reliable point of aim/point of impact. The pins can be positioned to fit the footprints of more than 30 popular optics, allowing for an unparalleled direct-mount fit.

In addition to adopting the pistols for their officers, the Geneseo Police Department also acquired Safariland Level III Retention Holsters and Surefire X300 weaponlights through Springfield Armory. The Geneseo Police Department also worked with Springfield to top off their pistols with Trijicon RMR HD red dot optics. Springfield Armory provided the department with transition training as well as armorer course training.

“Springfield Armory strongly supports the Geneseo Police Department and is proud to work with them on providing firearms for its officers,” said Fred Mincks, Springfield Armory’s Law Enforcement Sales Manager. “The Echelon’s highly adaptable and modular design — along with its rugged durability and impressive performance — make it a great choice for the department.”

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Good for them, now if they would just do a 4 inch version, that would be perfect. It still baffles me why they didn't come out with a 4 at the same time. If your running optics, the added sight radius is pointless, and they have marketed the Echelon as a multi optic duty pistol.

Most LE here have moved or are moving toward 4 inch barreled duty pistols, G45, P320, 509, etc. I think that is holding them back with a lot of agencies. I know of at least three here locally, that have talked about looking at the Echelon, but all three want a 4 inch version of their next duty pistol.

One agency here, starting issuing the Gen5 G17. With in 3 months, before they issued out all of their new 17's, decided to start issuing optics as well, and mid stream moved to the G45 with the RMR, even trading out the new 17's that just issued.



TXPO

[LockedBreech]

Provided the pistols run, that's a pretty sweet setup for the officers factoring in the X300s and RMRs.

[Tokarev]

Good for them, now if they would just do a 4 inch version, that would be perfect. It still baffles me why they didn't come out with a 4 at the same time. If your running optics, the added sight radius is pointless, and they have marketed the Echelon as a multi optic duty pistol.

Most LE here have moved or are moving toward 4 inch barreled duty pistols, G45, P320, 509, etc. I think that is holding them back with a lot of agencies. I know of at least three here locally, that have talked about looking at the Echelon, but all three want a 4 inch version of their next duty pistol.

One agency here, starting issuing the Gen5 G17. With in 3 months, before they issued out all of their new 17's, decided to start issuing optics as well, and mid stream moved to the G45 with the RMR, even trading out the new 17's that just issued.



TXPONo idea why SA didn't roll out 19 and 45 sized guns or conversion kits at time of launch. An FDE or OD grip module should have also been part of the initial roll out. Modular guns without modular support are not modular.




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[jnc36rcpd]

Henry County Sheriff's Office (IL) is also issuing Echelons with Surefire X300 lights in Safariland Level III holsters. No mention of optics in the presser.

[Tokarev]

Henry County Sheriff's Office (IL) is also issuing Echelons with Surefire X300 lights in Safariland Level III holsters. No mention of optics in the presser.

Link to this press annoucement:

https://www.springfield-armory.com/intel/press-releases/springfield-armory-announces-henry-county-sheriffs-office-adoption-of-echelon-9mm-pistol/

[HCM]

The Echelon seems to be a significant improvement over SA’s prior XD dumpster fires.

However it’s not a coincidence Springfield Armory is located in the city of Geneseo, in Henry County IL ….so I would hold off on declaring it the “Glock Killer.”

[HCM]

Henry County Sheriff's Office (IL) is also issuing Echelons with Surefire X300 lights in Safariland Level III holsters. No mention of optics in the presser.

A press release boasting about the county where Springfield Armory is located adopting a Springfield armory pistol is kind of boasting about like kissing your sister.

However, there was one thing in the press release that struck me as significant if Springfield wants to get serious about LE sales:



Springfield Armory also provided transition training as well as armorer course training.


Lack of armorer training and reluctance to provide spare parts was a significant negative for the XD series.

[H8Train]

Is this a big deal? Looks like they have maybe 14 officers and a town population of 6K?

[Biggy]

I carry AIWB, so until they come out with a 4 inch model that also has a manual thumb safety or is SCD compatible, I’ll have to pass on it.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

That's a pretty sweet carry package all around. I would definitely shelve any of my pre conceived biases for the manufacturer in exchange for a new striker 9mm handgun with a brand new Safariland, X300, and a RMR HD for duty carry.

[Tokarev]

That's a pretty sweet carry package all around. I would definitely shelve any of my pre conceived biases for the manufacturer in exchange for a new striker 9mm handgun with a brand new Safariland, X300, and a RMR HD for duty carry.
Is this a big deal? Looks like they have maybe 14 officers and a town population of 6K?

No reason the Echelon shouldn't garner some LE interest. The design seems sound and robust.

It does make one wonder about the purchase price. Did SA comp these departments in exchange for the publicity? What patrol rifles are these departments using? Springfield ARs or bullpups?



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[Hambo]

Did SA comp these departments in exchange for the publicity?

Wouldn't you? Can't have the hometown team carrying Glocks.

[Tokarev]

Wouldn't you?

Of course. Gotta get the word out somehow.

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[kmess]

My agency is switching to the Echelon from the Sig P229. Small agency of 26, so small sample size. SCS-320 optic, TLR-1 HL and Safariland 6360 holster. Our T&E process wasn't as robust as large agencies would do, but we were very happy with the weapon and it came out on top against 5 others. Glock was not an option for testing, unfortunately out of my control. We are aiming at rolling them out in the next few weeks. Obviously have a little trepidation about switching to an unproven platform, but so far we haven't encountered any issues outside of optic fit with the SCS-320.

[L-2]

Post 9 is correct.
https://www.cityofgeneseo.com/departments/police/

With the Police Chief, the total count-sworn is only 15.
I wouldn't know if it'd be one of those departments to allow personally-owned handguns to be used instead of what's available, issued, as some departments do allow.

Other than the old, now discontinued FBI Springfield-Armory Professional 1911s, did Springfield-Armory ever have much presence with Federal, local, or military firearms procurements, just wondering (what firearms; how many)?

[Tokarev]

My agency is switching to the Echelon from the Sig P229. Small agency of 26, so small sample size. SCS-320 optic, TLR-1 HL and Safariland 6360 holster. Our T&E process wasn't as robust as large agencies would do, but we were very happy with the weapon and it came out on top against 5 others. Glock was not an option for testing, unfortunately out of my control. We are aiming at rolling them out in the next few weeks. Obviously have a little trepidation about switching to an unproven platform, but so far we haven't encountered any issues outside of optic fit with the SCS-320.

Interesting choices in handgun and optic. What was the deciding factor(s) for the SCS? And what's the issue with its fit?

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[kmess]

Interesting choices in handgun and optic. What was the deciding factor(s) for the SCS? And what's the issue with its fit?

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The enclosed emitter without having an adapter plater was primary driver. We had to cut all of the factory screws down for proper length, and use pin set 3 in rear to have it sit flush. Fits great now, and no issues to date.

[L-2]

Post 18,
https://store.springfield-armory.com/echelon-complete-pin-set-for-variable-interface-system/
S-A's website for the Echelon has a list of optics, pin set number, and whether the optics can use "OEM" screws.
For some reason, your department went with a Holosun SCS-320 which wasn't on that list.
Your department apparently just wanted to do whatever it wanted to do. Departments and people can be like that:confused:

I think a major potential problem in choosing a handgun outside Glock, SIG, and maybe S&W is parts and service support.
I suppose with Springfield-Armory, only time will tell how well armorer training, parts availability, and any other support is handled.
I don't quite understand why Glock wasn't even considered and I suspect its personal or political.

Other things besides the above, could be holster availability and how well that Holosun SCS-320 works with the Echelon.

A good thing with a smaller department is it can make decisions and move on things like this much faster.
I'll be interested to hear how well the Echelon does over time and how long it'll be issued before getting replaced.
Another thought is whether the department allows personally-owned alternate handguns should a LEO want to do so.
I came from a 500+ department which simply mandated using the issued Glock17gen4 (from the prior G22gen3). Prior to 1999, personally-owned guns were ok'd.

[Robinson]

Other than the old, now discontinued FBI Springfield-Armory Professional 1911s, did Springfield-Armory ever have much presence with Federal, local, or military firearms procurements, just wondering (what firearms; how many)?

I think they supplied a bunch of pistols to a certain Army unit as well as a quantity of MEUSOC pistols to the Marine Corps, both probably ending in the early 2000s.

But then, it's quite possible I'm wrong on both counts.

[4RNR]

Post 9 is correct.
https://www.cityofgeneseo.com/departments/police/

With the Police Chief, the total count-sworn is only 15.
I wouldn't know if it'd be one of those departments to allow personally-owned handguns to be used instead of what's available, issued, as some departments do allow.

Other than the old, now discontinued FBI Springfield-Armory Professional 1911s, did Springfield-Armory ever have much presence with Federal, local, or military firearms procurements, just wondering (what firearms; how many)?

Ive seen a few here and there. Township about 30 miles from me issued (last I saw) the XD. IDK how many officers they have....50 or less would be my guess. And recently one of the firearm websites had a bunch of XD trade ins for sale. I forget which site.

[jetfire]

Springfield really put out a presser that they're equipping a 15 person department.

Wow

[4RNR]

One agency here, starting issuing the Gen5 G17. With in 3 months, before they issued out all of their new 17's, decided to start issuing optics as well, and mid stream moved to the G45 with the RMR, even trading out the new 17's that just issued.



TXPO

Interesting. I always wondered about that stuff. Local LGS doels in a ton of police trades. The The store is a sister company to a LEO distributor so they take in a lot of trades. Usually its the typical used Glock/Sig/MP with the occacianal complete clear out of storage resulting in Ruger P-series, 2nd and 3rd gen SW....etc.... your typical 80s - 00s stuff. However, every once in a while it will be a large batch of brand new guns. Brand new G17 and G22 mostly but Sigs and others have popped up too.

[kmess]

Post 18,
https://store.springfield-armory.com/echelon-complete-pin-set-for-variable-interface-system/
S-A's website for the Echelon has a list of optics, pin set number, and whether the optics can use "OEM" screws.
For some reason, your department went with a Holosun SCS-320 which wasn't on that list.
Your department apparently just wanted to do whatever it wanted to do. Departments and people can be like that:confused:

I think a major potential problem in choosing a handgun outside Glock, SIG, and maybe S&W is parts and service support.
I suppose with Springfield-Armory, only time will tell how well armorer training, parts availability, and any other support is handled.
I don't quite understand why Glock wasn't even considered and I suspect its personal or political.

Other things besides the above, could be holster availability and how well that Holosun SCS-320 works with the Echelon.

A good thing with a smaller department is it can make decisions and move on things like this much faster.
I'll be interested to hear how well the Echelon does over time and how long it'll be issued before getting replaced.
Another thought is whether the department allows personally-owned alternate handguns should a LEO want to do so.
I came from a 500+ department which simply mandated using the issued Glock17gen4 (from the prior G22gen3). Prior to 1999, personally-owned guns were ok'd.

The site says over 30 optics, so the list is not all inclusive. If you look at the pin sets it states set 2 is compatible with DPP footprint optics (such as the SCS-320) however this is not exactly the case as we did have to use pin set 3 in rear to get it to sit flush with no gap. Time will tell if the VIS system works for us or we have to make changes.

As far as the Glock goes, you nailed it.

[Tokarev]

If you look at the pin sets it states set 2 is compatible with DPP footprint optics (such as the SCS-320)

These are what I used to install my 320 on my DPP cut Platypus. Just FYI.

https://tacrig.com/product/holosun-scs-320-replacement-screws-short/

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[kmess]

These are what I used to install my 320 on my DPP cut Platypus. Just FYI.

https://tacrig.com/product/holosun-scs-320-replacement-screws-short/

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Thanks for the info, Holosun did just ship us shorter screws to see if they work. Already had our screws cut down by a local gunsmith and so far so good.

[SwampDweller]

I'm not a cop but if I were, I wouldn't be too happy about being issued a duty weapon that just came out less than a year ago and has had no real vetting or track record in the real world, and a completely unproven and potentially risky optics mounting system. I would think that the "easy button" solution for arming a department of any size would just be a G45 or something.

[HCM]

Springfield really put out a presser that they're equipping a 15 person department.

Wow

In their home town…

[Hambo]

Springfield really put out a presser that they're equipping a 15 person department.

Wow

When Taurus does the same you can put something on X.

I wouldn't have made a big deal out of it, but I'd have given them handguns and rifles. I listened to Rob Schauland talk about growing up in Geneseo and the presence SA had/has there. It's just good community relations.

[Texaspoff]

Another issue is that Safariland currently only has one holster option for the Echelon requiring a light and optic. While Optics and WML are popular, there are numerous agencies and officers that don't use optics or lights. Only having one duty style holster, that requires the use of a light and optic limits your flexibility as a duty weapon.

Lots of LE agencies do not issues duty weapons, nor do they require officers to have Optics or WML. If you want to get a duty pistol in the hands of LE, you need to have the ability for individual officers to purchase and carry said pistol outfitted and carried they way they want, not with what the manufacture thinks you should have, optionally on it.

I can tell you when a new pistol comes out, and if it is something I might consider as a duty pistol, the very first thing I do is check for a duty holster. If there isn't one available, my interest in it stops right there. I'm not the only officer with this line of thinking either. Support goes a long way when looking for a duty weapon.



TXPO

[jetfire]

When Taurus does the same you can put something on X.

I wouldn't have made a big deal out of it, but I'd have given them handguns and rifles. I listened to Rob Schauland talk about growing up in Geneseo and the presence SA had/has there. It's just good community relations.

I put out a press release when we equipped the entire Philippines National Police or whatever they're called, which I'm pretty sure has more than 15 dudes

[LockedBreech]

My agency is switching to the Echelon from the Sig P229. Small agency of 26, so small sample size. SCS-320 optic, TLR-1 HL and Safariland 6360 holster. Our T&E process wasn't as robust as large agencies would do, but we were very happy with the weapon and it came out on top against 5 others. Glock was not an option for testing, unfortunately out of my control. We are aiming at rolling them out in the next few weeks. Obviously have a little trepidation about switching to an unproven platform, but so far we haven't encountered any issues outside of optic fit with the SCS-320.

Would you mind sharing the other candidates and your impressions of them? I know it's anecdotal but I'm always very interested in agency T&E outcomes.

[TheNewbie]

I carry AIWB, so until they come out with a 4 inch model that also has a manual thumb safety or is SCD compatible, I’ll have to pass on it.


Agree. The improved grip safety on the newer XDs was actually well done, but I’m not sure I would really trust the gun to hold up. Maybe, but how many high round count XDs are there? Newer or older.



Maybe they will eventually offer an Echelon with a safety, but I’m not expecting them to do so.

[kmess]

Would you mind sharing the other candidates and your impressions of them? I know it's anecdotal but I'm always very interested in agency T&E outcomes.

Sig P320, FN 509t, HK VP9, Walther PDP, M&P 2.0 and Echelon. Sig was what the initial plan was but bad press gave powers that be cold feet. FN was ok, didn't impress in any way. Walther was solid, although snappy but no issues. Narrowed down to VP9, M&P & Echelon and had all officers shoot them for their input. VP9 shot very well, no reported issues. M&P had a great grip, and shot great making it a close second. Echelon beat out M&P and everyone shot it very well (accuracy and speed). Admittedly our T&E process is limited by budget/time and wasn't overly rigorous in terms of durability, so time will tell if we made the right choice. But based off of how the large majority performed with the gun it stood out.

[LockedBreech]

Sig P320, FN 509t, HK VP9, Walther PDP, M&P 2.0 and Echelon. Sig was what the initial plan was but bad press gave powers that be cold feet. FN was ok, didn't impress in any way. Walther was solid, although snappy but no issues. Narrowed down to VP9, M&P & Echelon and had all officers shoot them for their input. VP9 shot very well, no reported issues. M&P had a great grip, and shot great making it a close second. Echelon beat out M&P and everyone shot it very well (accuracy and speed). Admittedly our T&E process is limited by budget/time and wasn't overly rigorous in terms of durability, so time will tell if we made the right choice. But based off of how the large majority performed with the gun it stood out.

Thanks for the info! Looks like a pretty good slate of candidates.

[CarloMNL]

I put out a press release when we equipped the entire Philippines National Police or whatever they're called, which I'm pretty sure has more than 15 dudes

I haven't seen the press release but the Philippine National Police have bought several batches of TS9s and I've been seeing a lot of T4s lately.

[HCM]

I haven't seen the press release but the Philippine National Police have bought several batches of TS9s and I've been seeing a lot of T4s lately.

The PI national police use at least half a dozen different duty guns, the majority (about 70,000) being Glock 17s. In addition to Taurus, they also have berettas, Caniks, IWI Masadas and Pindads from Indonesia.

[psalms144.1]

Sig P320, FN 509t, HK VP9, Walther PDP, M&P 2.0 and Echelon. Sig was what the initial plan was but bad press gave powers that be cold feet. FN was ok, didn't impress in any way. Walther was solid, although snappy but no issues. Narrowed down to VP9, M&P & Echelon and had all officers shoot them for their input. VP9 shot very well, no reported issues. M&P had a great grip, and shot great making it a close second. Echelon beat out M&P and everyone shot it very well (accuracy and speed). Admittedly our T&E process is limited by budget/time and wasn't overly rigorous in terms of durability, so time will tell if we made the right choice. But based off of how the large majority performed with the gun it stood out.I might have missed it somewhere earlier, but any reason GLOCK isn't on the list of candidates?

[jetfire]

I haven't seen the press release but the Philippine National Police have bought several batches of TS9s and I've been seeing a lot of T4s lately.

10,000 at first order and I then I don't remember what the second order was for. Cool that you're seeing T4s pop up as well

[jnc36rcpd]

I might have missed it somewhere earlier, but any reason GLOCK isn't on the list of candidates?
Given the problems command staff can have about what officers post on the Internet, I'll jump in and remark that weapon purchases in departments can be influenced by those with oak leaves, eagles, or stars on their collars.

The now retired chief at my former agency absolutely despises Glock, considering their pistols cheap junk. That worked out OK in 1989 as we transitioned from revolvers. The selection committee preferred the SigSauer 226 (which the chief had authorized for his former department). I suspect the chief's opinion influenced the decision making decades later when another committee wanted to change our pistols. While I was no longer a cool kid with inside knowledge, the decision-makers decided on the M&P40 until FNH, learning of the Smith bid, undercut them to lead us to become one of four departments with FNS pistols.

Talk about plastic junk.

Fast forward a few years and a new chief, a desk pop (actually a locker room pop), various problems eventually resolved by FN, and my former department is carrying...Glock.

[Tokarev]

I might have missed it somewhere earlier, but any reason GLOCK isn't on the list of candidates?It is just a guess but could the decision to not consider Glock be based on the trigger pull disassembly?

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[steve]

I put out a press release when we equipped the entire Philippines National Police or whatever they're called, which I'm pretty sure has more than 15 dudes

Is Taurus going to open a warranty factory in Manila?

[jetfire]

Is Taurus going to open a warranty factory in Manila?

Why would we do something like that?

[Tokarev]

Internet sleuthing shows Lake Ozark, MO has also bought Echelons for its police department.


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[Tokarev]

NTOA recommended

https://www.thearmorylife.com/echelon-earns-top-law-enforcement-gold-rating/?_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8V0ikW6JCm2rZ9INN0jOnUNi1mJSv7MsB2SG3tgx2TRSR4T3kW 0G6ZIx_4lp0J3hUMjyE-iYb6DqpK4rU1XdEvUrkblw&_hsmi=308449809

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