Tactical Pistol Reloads, which technique works best?

[Amp]

I use the mag out to pocket first and then reload, I'm less likely to fumble the reload and it's faster for me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40J6DZZtfF4&t=496s

[DDTSGM]

ETA: I only watched about half the video. I agree with AMP, if I'm pocket carrying the extra mag, the way to do it is with the mag in hand.

I've always felt that one of the things you need to look at is the actual context in which you are going to be using the technique. I think he is thinking too much about the IDPA competition application rather than the real-world/tactical application.

To me the Tac/Retention Reload has always been one aspect of the reload when you want to, not when you got to training mindset. So first you need to address the circumstances that would exist before using a tac reload versus a speed reload (mags cross in the air with the ejected mag hitting the ground). I would think that first you would want to be behind cover or concealment and second that there would be a lull in the action giving you enough time to execute a tac reload.

Additionally, he demoed executing the tac load on the move. I can see doing that in the assault when you aren't moving to cover, but in the case of moving to cover I think you want to evaluate what is important NOW reloading or getting to cover. If possible I would reload before I moved or after I moved. Don't misunderstand me to say that doing it on the move is not a skill you should practice, I'm simply advocating thinking about the tactics you use. As a CCW or HD user, how often should/would you been moving forward, into a gunfight? Time to reload before you do so?

Other than on a competition field I think the one consideration he skips is how long the pistol is without a magazine, in other words with only the chambered round to be fired. For real world use, I would default to whichever method offered me the least time with only one round to defend myself rather than solely basing the decision on elapsed time.

Additionally, coming from a police training background, I don't know of anyone who advocates returning a partially loaded mag to a mag pouch. Partially loaded mags go in the rear pocket. Many LEO's have enough stuff on their belts that getting at the front pocket of their trousers is difficult. And, if you need to get the partial mag while kneeling, prone, or on the move, it's a hell of a lot easier to get it out of a rear pocket.

The video proved to me which technique I would use in IDPA competition, not necessarily, which I would use in real world.

[jnc36rcpd]

For several years, performing a tactical reload with a 9mm 226 was part of my former agency's daylight and low light qualification courses. It was eliminated by the time I became an instructor. I occasionally practiced the classic reload myself and might have mentioned it in training, but neither I nor the program put particular emphasis on it.

If I were to do it over again, I might have put more emphasis on the technique (though not at the expense of the speed reload when remaining rounds are left in the dropped magazine) and certainly not at the expense of the slidelock reload. In retrospect, both for myself and the program, I'd generally go with the magazine to pocket, then draw the spare. I also agree that the rear pocket is the preferred option for stowing the partial mag (absent a dump pouch). As posited, the front pocket may be inaccessible. Cargo pockets may be accessible, but the magazine may be swimming deep in the pocket, lost amongst whatever gear may be carried there.

I agree that a tac reload on the move is probably a bridge too far for pretty much anyone but the reincarnation of Jelly Bryce. One should reload before or after moving. While being able to reload on the movie might be a valuable skill, there are probably other skills one would be better off learning and practicing. If you need to reload on the move, it is probably better to perform a speed or slidelock reload.

I will remark that partial magazines are better in magazine carriers than pockets or dump pouches. That should probably be done after the weapon is fully loaded. You should bump up your magazines so a full one is in the pouch you reach for first and the partial magazine is in the pouch you reach for last. This is situational and best performed while eight of your best friends are up and loaded while you screw around with your magazines.

Unfortunately, some of the current tac reload thinking comes from days of yore when the 1911 and one or two single stack magazines were standard. Other thinking comes from the GWOT. Mad respect for veterans of both environs, but tac reload training (and everything else) needs to be based on what we and our students are going and carrying. Tac reload training and practice should probably differ if you a private citizen with a SIG 365 and one spare or if you're a beat officer with a Glock 17 and three spare magazines on your belt.

For historical reference, I'm old enough to have rolled out with a revolver and two speedloaders. There are techniques to tac reload a wheel gun from belt loops or a speed strip, but I assumed I'd never pull that off at the moment of truth. I figured I'd drop any live rounds and use a speedloader rather than try a tac reload.

[1slow]

Autos

A lot of this is hand / gun / magazine size dependent.
I have strong bony XL hands.

What has served me well since 1990 has been to : grab the fresh mag with thumb and first 2 fingers , bring it toward the pistol, eject mag in gun and receive it between third and little fingers gripping it hard. Insert fresh mag and stow partial in pocket etc…

This has worked well with GL21, 30, 17, 19, HK45, HK P30, HK USP 45, 9 mm. It has worked with plus 2-5 mags. Currently doing this with Solum Tool +3 on a HK USP 45 with no issues.

I use thumb and first two fingers on the fresh msg because it is my priority over the partial mag in the gun.
Many seem to do the reverse. YMMV.

I have done this in various conditions: rain , dark, very light gloves.

[Erick Gelhaus]

I was pretty heavily schooled in the traditional version of the tac reload having started at a 1911 centric office. As a long-time 1911 carrier, shooter it became natural.

As a lefty, I never could do the traditional version with my M4/AR. That started me on used mag out, stow it, new mag in.

When I switched to a double stack 9mm, it was used mag out, stow it, new mag in - because of hand size and total time.

I will discuss and demo both.

[Jim Watson]

At IDPA, "stowed" for the partial magazine has become "stuffed in the waistband" because it is a bit quicker than a pocket and time is everything.

[rob_s]

At IDPA, "stowed" for the partial magazine has become "stuffed in the waistband" because it is a bit quicker than a pocket and time is everything.

Having not shot idpa in at least a decade, I find that interesting.

Was that previously prohibited?

I recall one couple we used to see at Florida State matches that had put a wire in their vest pocket and would simply dump the partial into the pocket while retrieving the fresh mag. I believe that was eventually prohibited.

[Amp]

You can't modify a cover garment pocket to make it easier to stow a magazine. Under the current rules you have to stow the mag at waist level, so a pocket, mag pouch or stuffed in the waistband is good.

[JohnO]

What kind of crowd is that guy preaching to? Right from the jump I didn't like his presentation. He literally made it look like he is plusing up the gun when he shouldn't. Then returning a partially used magazine to a belt pouch is both inefficient and problematic. I realize he was demonstrating a technique but perhaps some context about when and why to perform a tactical reload for the neophyte.

[psalms144.1]

What rarely gets attention when discussing this topic is the simple fact that the "Tactical" reload, or reload with retention, is NOT done unless there is a definitive "lull" in the action. If you're still in a fight, dump the partial, put in a full, and get back in the fight.

If you have the time/cover to do a "tactical" reload, I prefer the "modern" technique of taking the partial to the pocket/pouch then reloading from the belt, just because of the reduced chance of mag fumbling. The "classic" technique is very dependent on size of the mag, shooter's hand size, and a bunch of other factors that MIGHT make it a bad option.

Of course, I'm just old fat broke-ass retired guy without a YouTube channel, so, my opinion is worth precisely what you paid for it.

[ST911]

Additionally, coming from a police training background, I don't know of anyone who advocates returning a partially loaded mag to a mag pouch.

Depends on who/where taught and the gear in use. Everyone (esp LE schools and agencies particularly) seems to have "the one true way." Been corrected on a variety of ranges for doing it "wrong."

Always put your mag in the pocket, that's where partial mags go.
Never do that, you don't know what position you'll be in / it'll drop to the bottom and be inaccessible.
Use your back pocket, not your front pocket. Use your front pocket, not your back pocket.
Always put your mag in the mag pouch, that's where you know to go for a mag.
Never do that, it's a "fine motor skill" / only full mags go in pouches.
Hold your mags between these fingers, not those.
Don't do it at all, it's a "fine motor skill" you'll fumble anyway.

Most seem to teach by process, not principles.
when you have a lull in a fight or opportunity to do so
rapidly exchange a partially expended mag for a full one
retain the partial in a place you'll know to retrieve it

Hand size and dexterity matters.
For uniforms, open top mag pouches are more viable for a return than flapped parade pouches.

Rate of return on the time some spend training it is also questionable. I think we have a thread here somewhere looking for examples of LE or CCW fights continuing after execution of a tactical reload.

[rob_s]

In an ideal world, the shooter has a subconscious competence level with their gun and load-carriage and they aren't stuck in one dogmatic approach.

When I was shooting carbines a lot I would assess the situation that called for the partial-mag-change and apply the method that best fit.

I can understand why having one dogmatic approach might be beneficial in an organization where the gun is issued gear and not seen as that vastly different than a pen or a flashlight. But, then, like any business with an SOP you also need to be able to allow the 10% that are actually doing more than the base standard to do what works best for them.

[Rex G]

I was never taught to return a partially-filled mag to a mag pouch. In my LEO career context, I was expected to use flap-covered mag carriers in uniform, and conceal guns and ammo while in plainclothes, so, it would be necessary to clear a flap, or clear the cover garment, and then hunt for the mag pouch opening, so, it was good that I was not required to do either. (Is “training scar” still a trendy term to use?)

If I recall correctly, I have normally defaulted to using a rear pocket to stow ejected/removed mags. I never liked keeping much of anything in my rear pockets, so, they were almost always available for dump-pouch duty. Cargo pockets did not become a regular part of my life until much later, and never became every-day wear.

I was self-taught, originally, for tactical and reload-with-retention mag changes. I used Chuck Taylor’s well-illustrated articles/books for guidance. When tactical reloads were introduced, in the context of my LE training, I do not remember being compelled to correct anything, so, either the “classic” method was taught, or, was an allowed alternative. It helped that I write left-handed, and normally carried on my right side, so, my support hand had plenty of dexterity for handling the two mags. (NO “weak” hand! Two “strong” hands! ;) )

Saving time on the clock, by pulling and stowing the partially-depleted mag, and only then drawing and inserting the new mag, was never a goal, that I can recall. That seems, to my mind, to be an admin reload, after the fight. Or, it seems, an IDPA winning method. My opinion. I do not know enough about IDPA to criticize it. (I shot a very few timed matches, at the PD range, that were intended to be street-relevant practical, moving from cover to cover, long before IDPA was created. I can no longer recall if a tactical reload, or reload-with-retention, was a required part of any stage.)

[crosseyedshooter]

I was pretty heavily schooled in the traditional version of the tac reload having started at a 1911 centric office. As a long-time 1911 carrier, shooter it became natural.

As a lefty, I never could do the traditional version with my M4/AR. That started me on used mag out, stow it, new mag in.

When I switched to a double stack 9mm, it was used mag out, stow it, new mag in - because of hand size and total time.

I will discuss and demo both.

As a right-handed lefty (eye dominance), I appreciate your post and look forward to additional info.

I just wanted to drop in to say tac reloads are becoming a real pain with the latest stuffed-to-the-brim mags. My P365 17-rd mags aren't easy to seat on a closed slide and it sometimes feels like I'll knock my pistol right out of my hand driving that mag in.

My experience as a civilian student is the tac reload has become the admin reload and for me to stay in sync with the rest of the class between drills. When I'm running 10 or 12 round mags, and other students have 17 or 23, it's up to me to be ready for the next series of drills and not have the entire line waiting on me. I've never used it in the few months I've been doing IDPA and can't recall the last time I saw somebody do it at the local club. It's mostly counting shots and dropping empty mags (with one in chamber) for closed slide reloads.

[baddean]

I don't profess to have the knowledge and skills as some on this excellent forum. I have had the privilege to teach a fair number of new and novice students of the gun for the past thirteen years and I/we have always attempted to keep gun handing skills as simple as possible.
All loading of the gun is done from the "main" mag carrier. If in a training class and bringing multiple mags to the line, whether in carriers or pockets, load the gun from the "main" carrier then move a mag from one of the other positions to the "main" carrier. That's the go to place to retrieve a mag for any reload.

Empty mags go on the ground. They're empty.

During a tactical reload the partial goes in a pocket/waistband somewhere near the main mag carrier. The shooter most likely already has both hands on the gun anyway, so they press the mag release grasp the partial mag take it toward the main mag carrier stash it in a pocket/waistband and grasp the reload mag from the main carrier then back to the gun for the reload.

Only full mags go in the main mag carrier with one exception. If there is a lull or break in the action, real or class related, a/the partial, if that's all that is left, gets moved to the main mag carrier.

Other "tactical" reloading techniques are surely valid given enough time, repetition, and practice, especially among top tier shooters/operators.
For the average CC civilian who might find themselves in the unfortunate position of being in a gunfight, the less they have to think about manipulating the gun the more they can focus on extricating themselves from the situation they find themselves in. Keeping the gun handling as simple as possible should give them the best chances of a positive outcome.

[Erick Gelhaus]

As a right-handed lefty (eye dominance), I appreciate your post and look forward to additional info.

Ask away, and I'll try to help.

As I recall and we teach, there are some situational "requirements" for a Tac Reload. Some of the things shown in the video would push toward a straight speed reload - moving out in the open under time constraints. Could be the competitive emphasis on time? I don't put tac reloads on the clock in that way.

Returning the partial mag to a mag pouch is a discussion. Generally, the discussion goes - if you have multiple mag pouches, don't return the partial mag to one of them; however, with a single pouch, why not go back there? Initially that works with the traditional version where you're exchanging at the mag well. With the remove the used mag, pocket it, load the new mag then you could move the used mag after the new mag is seated.

[BehindBlueI's]

Depends on who/where taught and the gear in use. Everyone (esp LE schools and agencies particularly) seems to have "the one true way." Been corrected on a variety of ranges for doing it "wrong."


Our range has long taught "put it where you know where it is". As long as you can say where your full mags are and where your partials are, they do not go beyond that. It's an approach I appreciate even more hearing about others' experiences.

[okie john]

In an ideal world, the shooter has a subconscious competence level with their gun and load-carriage and they aren't stuck in one dogmatic approach.

Yep. Train on all of the techniques then use the one that makes sense at the time. Then you can focus on solving your problem instead of dealing with your gear.

The one time that I've actually done a tactical reload was during a night-fire session with a buddy who wanted to shoot his new carbine in low light. We were deep in the woods on a snowy night. We'd been shooting and bullshitting for about half an hour when we heard an ear-piercing scream from maybe 20 yards away. (We had no idea what it was at the time, just that it was bad. I've since come to think it was a mountain lion.) I had a partial magazine of FMJ in my G19 and a full magazine of carry ammo in a mag pouch so I swapped them and racked the slide. I don't remember which technique I used and it doesn't matter. I ended up with a full magazine of better ammo, which is the point of the exercise.

Then I told him, "Put a fresh mag in that thing and let's get the fuck out of here." And that's what we did.

We still refer to that as The Night We Shot Bigfoot.


Okie John

[ST911]

Our range has long taught "put it where you know where it is". As long as you can say where your full mags are and where your partials are, they do not go beyond that. It's an approach I appreciate even more hearing about others' experiences.

I like that approach.

[crosseyedshooter]

Ask away, and I'll try to help.

As I recall and we teach, there are some situational "requirements" for a Tac Reload. Some of the things shown in the video would push toward a straight speed reload - moving out in the open under time constraints. Could be the competitive emphasis on time? I don't put tac reloads on the clock in that way.

Returning the partial mag to a mag pouch is a discussion. Generally, the discussion goes - if you have multiple mag pouches, don't return the partial mag to one of them; however, with a single pouch, why not go back there? Initially that works with the traditional version where you're exchanging at the mag well. With the remove the used mag, pocket it, load the new mag then you could move the used mag after the new mag is seated.

Thank you Erick. I started another thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?59419-Lefty-by-birth-or-by-curse) to continue the left-handed discussion. As it relates to tac reloads, I was perfectly fine with holding two pistol mags in one hand for many years and then I tried to do it with two rifle mags and push the mag release on the AR.

[GyroF-16]

Here’s my perspective…

When I think of reloading, the first thing that happens is my support hand grabs the fresh mag.
That’s what I do when initially loading a pistol.
That’s what I do for an “emergency” of slidelock reload.
It’s also what I do for a “tactical reload” or a “reload with retention.

I complete in IDPA, and have experimented with the “magazine out and into pocket, then fresh magazine from pouch to gun” technique.
I would agree that it’s slightly faster and requires less dexterity.

But, despite practicing it some, when the pressure’s on, as soon as my brain says “reload”, my hand goes to the mag pouch.
So I’ve accepted that drawing a fresh mag and doing the exchange at the gun is the best method for me.
I think it also has the added benefit of avoiding a situation where you begin a tactical reload only to discover that you’re out of magazines.

[Redhat]

If I've just been shot at, I think I might prefer the most fumble proof technique.

[GyroF-16]

If I've just been shot at, I think I might prefer the most fumble proof technique.

Agreed. But if I find myself with a mag in my hand (as I’ve done in the pressure of competition) I’ll press on with an exchange at the gun.
(Haven’t been shot at on the ground, but I imagine it’d go the same then). But if someone else doesn’t have my training scars, definitely avoid fumbling.

[Redhat]

Agreed. But if I find myself with a mag in my hand (as I’ve done in the pressure of competition) I’ll press on with an exchange at the gun.
(Haven’t been shot at on the ground, but I imagine it’d go the same then). But if someone else doesn’t have my training scars, definitely avoid fumbling.

What is most "fumble free" for me might not be the same for someone such as yourself. Also, for me it comes down to the decision of in my current situation, do I want a fully loaded gun or am I willing to stay with what I've got. I'm less confident of my ability, in that type situation, to manipulate two double stack magazines in one hand at the same time.

[DMF13]

I will probably be decried as a heretic, but here goes.

I don't practice "tactical reloads," "mag exchanges," or whatever else you want to call it. I did practice them a little when I occasionally shot IDPA, but that's been a long time ago.

If there is a "lull in the action," (oft mentioned, but rarely defined, and if an attempt at a definition is made, it's often very vague), that means I'm not actually fighting with the gun, or anything else for that matter. If the fight has changed to a point I'm willing to temporarily turn my gun into a single shot, I will very consciously have decided that I can exchange mags. It's a conscious decision, to take a very deliberate action, and it should be at a time of greatly reduced stress (much reduced from the time when I thought someone had created a threat of imminent death, or serious bodily injury, and I was using deadly force). It won't be a time I need subconscious skill to complete it rapidly. If I'm in a situation where I need it done rapidly, with subconscious skill, I'm not turning my gun into a single shot, and doing a "mag exchange."

Any other reload, will be under great stress, will require subconscious skill, to get it done very rapidly, and will be either a "slide lock reload," or "speed reload," and the mag that's in the gun will be dropped free. Those are the skills I practice, often.

I'm not wasting my limited time, developing a subconscious level of skill in something that I won't do under extreme stress.

[Chain]

If there is a "lull in the action," (oft mentioned, but rarely defined, and if an attempt at a definition is made, it's often very vague), that means I'm not actually fighting with the gun, or anything else for that matter.

Also if there's a lull like that I should also be thinking about GTFO.

[Hambo]

What has served me well since 1990 has been to : grab the fresh mag with thumb and first 2 fingers , bring it toward the pistol, eject mag in gun and receive it between third and little fingers gripping it hard. Insert fresh mag and stow partial in pocket etc…


Almost:
-Grab mag with thumb, index, middle, ring finger.
-As my hand is moving, the fresh mag ends up between my middle and index finger.
-Ejected mag gets pinched between index finger and thumb
-Fresh mag is inserted. The base of the mag is deep between my fingers with the palm driving it into the mag well.

I know it's backwards, but I have large mitts. I've done this a million times in 40 years, starting with 1911 mags, but it works for me with any pistol mag.

Outside of matches, I wouldn't worry about it much.

[1slow]

Not backwards , just another way.

I ended up with a way that worked for me and trained it lots.

I looked at other ways but by that time I was well towards automaticity and did not change.

I have trained other ways in case I am damaged but stay with what I have done for 30 plus years.

[JAD]

I particularly like that ST mentioned training from principles rather than process. The principles that guide the way I think about reloads for my own context are:
1) don’t throw your shit on the ground
2) don’t disassemble your gun in the middle of a fight
3) if you are deeply inclined to violate (2) use a technique that minimizes the time that the gun is disassembled.

For me that usually means that I don’t worry about reloads with double stacks, and use a bring-mag-to-gun technique with single stacks. Works for me.

[rob_s]

I will probably be decried as a heretic, but here goes.

I don't practice "tactical reloads," "mag exchanges," or whatever else you want to call it. I did practice them a little when I occasionally shot IDPA, but that's been a long time ago.

If there is a "lull in the action," (oft mentioned, but rarely defined, and if an attempt at a definition is made, it's often very vague), that means I'm not actually fighting with the gun, or anything else for that matter. If the fight has changed to a point I'm willing to temporarily turn my gun into a single shot, I will very consciously have decided that I can exchange mags. It's a conscious decision, to take a very deliberate action, and it should be at a time of greatly reduced stress (much reduced from the time when I thought someone had created a threat of imminent death, or serious bodily injury, and I was using deadly force). It won't be a time I need subconscious skill to complete it rapidly. If I'm in a situation where I need it done rapidly, with subconscious skill, I'm not turning my gun into a single shot, and doing a "mag exchange."

Any other reload, will be under great stress, will require subconscious skill, to get it done very rapidly, and will be either a "slide lock reload," or "speed reload," and the mag that's in the gun will be dropped free. Those are the skills I practice, often.

I'm not wasting my limited time, developing a subconscious level of skill in something that I won't do under extreme stress.

I don't think my hats anywhere near as controversial as you make it out to be.

But, the topic of the thread is “tactical pistol reolaods…” so we are all kind of starting the presumption that one has chosen to perform one rather than debate the merits of the core concept.

All of that to say that I, and I daresay a lot of the others posting here, don't actually disagree with you.

Also, just to clarify, it's not the subconscious level of skill in the mag exchange that I'm advocating, it's the subconscious level of skill with ALL THENOTHER THINGS so that you can consciously focus on the mag exchange, and choose the method that best fits the situation.

[El Cid]

Depends on who/where taught and the gear in use. Everyone (esp LE schools and agencies particularly) seems to have "the one true way." Been corrected on a variety of ranges for doing it "wrong."

Always put your mag in the pocket, that's where partial mags go.
Never do that, you don't know what position you'll be in / it'll drop to the bottom and be inaccessible.
Use your back pocket, not your front pocket. Use your front pocket, not your back pocket.
Always put your mag in the mag pouch, that's where you know to go for a mag.
Never do that, it's a "fine motor skill" / only full mags go in pouches.
Hold your mags between these fingers, not those.
Don't do it at all, it's a "fine motor skill" you'll fumble anyway.

Most seem to teach by process, not principles.
when you have a lull in a fight or opportunity to do so
rapidly exchange a partially expended mag for a full one
retain the partial in a place you'll know to retrieve it

Hand size and dexterity matters.
For uniforms, open top mag pouches are more viable for a return than flapped parade pouches.

Rate of return on the time some spend training it is also questionable. I think we have a thread here somewhere looking for examples of LE or CCW fights continuing after execution of a tactical reload.

Amen! Context matters. If I'm kitted up and have multiple mags, then the partial goes into a dump pouch or pocket. But if I'm in plain clothes, or off duty I only have one spare mag and it's in a pouch. If I decide to do a mag exchange, I will 100% put the partial into the empty pouch. Because if I need that partial in a hurry, under stress I'm going to reach for the pouch. If the "tactical social media" crowd doesn't like it, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

[DDTSGM]

deleted - already covered by 'context matters'

[Amp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07t14o8Ed7w&t=185s

[Magali28]

If I've just (https://buyweedseedsonline.com) been shot at, I think I might prefer the most fumble proof technique.

Agreed. But if I find myself with a magazine in my hand (as I've done in the pressure of competition), I'll press on with an exchange at the gun. (Haven't been shot at on the ground, but I imagine it'd go the same then). But if someone else doesn't have my training scars, definitely avoid fumbling.