Fight Lights: Weapon Mounted vs. Handheld

[NH Shooter]

I posted an article on the EDCLB website that discusses the concept of handheld "fight lights" and their use vs. WMLs for civilian use.

There's already agreement here on P-F that a handheld is a must for EDC, and that a WML on the EDC pistol is a worthy addition. In the article I argue that instead of the WML, the civilian should consider a dedicated handheld fight light in lieu of the WML.

My thanks to all for clicking the link below and taking the time to read the article. I look forward to any comments you'd like to share - please feel free to post them below!

Fight Lights: Weapon Mounted vs. Handheld (https://www.edclightbuilder.com/fight-lights/)

[rob_s]

Some thoughts...

ypu say in order to illuminate something with a WML you have to point the pistol at it, and I don't think that's 100% accurate. Bouncing light off various surfaces has worked great for me both in checking bumps in the night and in chasiingflur-legged vermin around the yard at night.

I also think that it's entirely possible to have a light thats both Edc and “fight”. For years, and even currently, I tend to prefer edc lights that start at a lower brightness and then go high, but I find it totally workable to have a light that starts bright and does to low with a double-click to combine an edc and fight light. You want the default to be fight mode when you're under stress and the slower option to be the general illumination.

Either way, I think this is a case of personal preference, and for new gun owners or people new to carrying itsimoortant to at least think through the strategy and approach.

Forexamole, my wife is not a “gun person” and has had next to zero training. So I don't have a gun-mounted light on the nightstand gun. Why? Because I think the likelihood of us having a violent encounter is statistically insignificant and she lacks the training to bounce the light, and if she were to grab the gun and a light I think she's more likely to sweep a kid than kill a bad guy. So for me the greater risk is an accident not an intentional and therefore we keep the light off the gun.

When I lived alone? Light on gun. If she attends some classes in the future or got “serious” about guns and shooting? Light on gun.

[Tackleberry40sw]

The article is very well articulated. I have a very big bias. I believe in both and have utilized both on and off duty and both items are must have in my everyday on duty and off duty routines. There is the minimalist "get by" or "make do" with just having a hand held "Fight Light", I like to have that reassurance that I have that light mounted to the pistol because it reduces variables and keeps both hands on the pistol when pressed into service. By the same token, I like the finger rings on fight lights because I can flip the flashlight over the back of my hand when employing the pistol into service retaining control of the fight light while maintaining the maximum two handed grip on the pistol. To each their own and one has to do what makes sense, fits into one's EDC routine, and works with their everyday movements amongst other humans. There is no one size or one answer that fits all.

On a side note, I have a small story of my first off duty employment of a fight light to ID and make people reconsider their actions. My wife and daughter were outside one summer evening after dinner playing. My daughter was 3 maybe 4 at the time. She's going to be 9 in March. At one point I had drug addicted (meth) young adults living next door and a late 30's alcoholic across the street. Something transpired where words were said and a domestic dispute had begun that was quickly escalating and going to become a physical altercation. My wife came in the house in a hurry and something to the effect, "Come quick! There is going to be a fight!" As per usual, I am home and all geared up with my off duty EDC load out. I reached down into my left cargo pocket for my EDC/Fight Light at the time, an inexpensive Thorfire C8S (Amazon Chinesium 5 mode flashlight) set on High, and dashed out of the house and up the driveway. It was dusk and I was able to see what appeared to be three or four young people on my side of the street near the curb on my side of the street and one adult individual on the opposite side of the street. Heated words were being exchanged. I turned on my flashlight on high (900 lumens) and aimed it at the closest young aggressor running his suck. I illuminated him and said, "Don't move! Sheriff's Deputy!" The use of the light and me identifying myself stopped everyone in their tracks. I was able to defuse the situation with a powerful light source and my interpersonal communication skills.

A fight light has its place as a good tool in one's toolbox of EDC tricks. I stand by my use and employment of both a fight light and a WML for EDC. Thank you for reading.

[rob_s]

Something else that I think factors in os the competency matrix/spectrum

1) unconscious incompetence
2) conscious incompetence
3) conscious competence
4) subconscious competence


If you aren't at a 4 with basic manipulations, adding any sort of light can be a challenge. And the preponderance should be on the carrier to protect the public first, not themselves. So adding a WML when you barely know how to change a mag is probably a bad idea.

[NETim]

As a civvie, I don't believe the juice is worth the squeeze as far as toting a WML. I ALWAYS have a handheld light on my person. I use a light on an almost daily basis for very mundane household duties, like chasing down launched gun springs. WML translates to more weight and more bulk. It's far more comfortable (and versatile/useful) to carry a light in my pocket.

My dull, low key geezer lifestyle seldom finds me out in public places after dark. However, it's so easy and totally innocent in appearance to simply carry the hand held in hand should I ever find myself in an abnormal (for me) situation and potentially need to light up an unknown contact.

I am waiting for Marshal Haggard to chime in here. :)

[NH Shooter]

Great points, thanks for taking the time to post them!

To clarify, the context of the article is for a civilian (non-LEO) in a public setting. Inside one's home is a different set of circumstances (especially in a state with Castle Doctrine law), and a LEO (on duty or off) is going to have far more latitude in drawing their weapon without any "brandishing" repercussions.

A scenario that comes to mind is I already have my handheld light out for SA purposes in a public space - a practice I advocate. Suddenly, a threat emerges and I find myself in a defensive situation where the use of deadly force would be justified. As I draw my WML-equipped pistol, do I drop the handheld and transition to the WML, or do I keep the threat illuminated and continue to use the handheld with my well-practiced flashlight-pistol technique?

Under the stress of the moment, I think retaining the handheld light is going to be more instinctual because it's already in-hand and illuminating the threat.

So as a civilian in a public space, if my SOP is to have the handheld deployed whenever it's needed, and if I'm going to retain the light and use it with the pistol if a threat emerges, does a WML mounted to the pistol become largely irrelevant? Would my training bandwidth be better spent on a tool that has broader application?

As always, just my 2-cents served up as food for thought. My thanks again to all for chiming in!

[Noah]

Great points, thanks for taking the time to post them!

To clarify, the context of the article is for a civilian (non-LEO) in a public setting. Inside one's home is a different set of circumstances (especially in a state with Castle Doctrine law), and a LEO (on duty or off) is going to have far more latitude in drawing their weapon without any "brandishing" repercussions.

A scenario that comes to mind is I already have my handheld light out for SA purposes in a public space - a practice I advocate. Suddenly, a threat emerges and I find myself in a defensive situation where the use of deadly force would be justified. As I draw my WML-equipped pistol, do I drop the handheld and transition to the WML, or do I keep the threat illuminated and continue to use the handheld with my well-practiced flashlight-pistol technique?

Under the stress of the moment, I think retaining the handheld light is going to be more instinctual because it's already in-hand and illuminating the threat.

So as a civilian in a public space, if my SOP is to have the handheld deployed whenever it's needed, and if I'm going to retain the light and use it with the pistol if a threat emerges, does a WML mounted to the pistol become largely irrelevant? Would my training bandwidth be better spent on a tool that has broader application?

As always, just my 2-cents served up as food for thought. My thanks again to all for chiming in!

I did a drill shooting at night with my brother which got him to "see the light" on this.

You can't ID a non immediate threat with a WML. So we started with a handheld on the nefarious steel plate. On the beep, he could either drop the handheld, draw his pistol and use his WML, or just keep the handheld light in his hand and draw and shoot one handed. Contrary to his expectation, just keeping the light on and drawing and shooting one handed was faster and easier.

For public use (IE not home defense), 95% of the reason I carried a WML 2017-2021 was fear based. I was afraid of getting stuck in some imaginary scenario where I would be unprepared out in public by not having a WML. At the same time, I was finding carrying with a WML was a lot more uncomfortable when holding, chasing, and playing with my new baby.

The podcast that John Johnston and Chuck Haggard did finally got me to admit that
A) the scenario in which a WML would be useful in a public, non pitch black woods or interior building setting is extremely unlikely. Can't ID with it, most public places are fairly well lit, and you're reacting to an attacker, not hunting.
And B) I was also afraid to have to shoot one handed with a handheld light. That's a skill deficiency and lack of confidence.

So on those 2 points, my felt "need" to have a WML was based on coping with fears, not an assessment of reality.

If you can carry a WML in addition to a handheld with a change in comfort or concealment that you're OK with, go for it, but for most people it probably isn't worth it.

[Tackleberry40sw]

Great points, thanks for taking the time to post them!

To clarify, the context of the article is for a civilian (non-LEO) in a public setting. Inside one's home is a different set of circumstances (especially in a state with Castle Doctrine law), and a LEO (on duty or off) is going to have far more latitude in drawing their weapon without any "brandishing" repercussions.

A scenario that comes to mind is I already have my handheld light out for SA purposes in a public space - a practice I advocate. Suddenly, a threat emerges and I find myself in a defensive situation where the use of deadly force would be justified. As I draw my WML-equipped pistol, do I drop the handheld and transition to the WML, or do I keep the threat illuminated and continue to use the handheld with my well-practiced flashlight-pistol technique?

Under the stress of the moment, I think retaining the handheld light is going to be more instinctual because it's already in-hand and illuminating the threat.

So as a civilian in a public space, if my SOP is to have the handheld deployed whenever it's needed, and if I'm going to retain the light and use it with the pistol if a threat emerges, does a WML mounted to the pistol become largely irrelevant? Would my training bandwidth be better spent on a tool that has broader application?

As always, just my 2-cents served up as food for thought. My thanks again to all for chiming in!

My $0.02:

I look at things from the standpoint of training and tools and the use of said tools. Whether being On Duty/Off Duty badge carrying member of the constabulary or a member of John Q. Public it is a question of what one is willing to have, train with, carry, and employ. I wear some sort of open button down shirt all year long to cover the bevy of items on my belt while being off duty. One's choice of attire, tools, and accessories will dictate and represent one's choices. Age, physical ability, dexterity, area of operation, time of day, personal choice based on "What if?" scenarios are all personal choices. Deploying a hand held light to identify subjects, threats, objects etc., are all part of one's OODA Loop. Once a threat is identified, one has split second decisions on whether to un-ass the area of operation if that option is available. If the choice is made to engage with the threat, me using a fusll size pistol with a weapon mounted light in an IWB holster would be to flip the hand held over the back of my support hand while drawing my pistol and getting off the "X", marrying my hand together around the pistol in a shooting stance punching the pistol out, engaging the WML, and giving verbal commands to the subject (creating witnesses). If I did not have a WML, I'd still get off the "X" with the hand held light off, drawing my pistol, and getting a light/pistol hold based on which of the several methods taught to me during my career. I'd bring the pistol and light to bear in my new position, reengage the hand held light, and give verbal commands to the subject. For me, I prefer the WML. My choice is not to encourage, influence, or push others in the direction of having a WML. I choose to use and have both lights to maximize my perceived benefits and use during a worst case scenario that I hope never comes to fruition.

I hope this stream of thought makes sense in my haste to present it to the group.

[mmc45414]

Under the stress of the moment, I think retaining the handheld light is going to be more instinctual because it's already in-hand and illuminating the threat.
I think my instinct would be to grab my gun with both hands if I am about to shoot it, because I have fifty years of reps doing that.

Regarding some of the other pro-choice comments, I like having it as an option, but rarely exercise that option in public. By focusing on one type of pistol it is simplified a bit, since I have a stack of M&Ps it is easy to clamp a light onto one of them, and I did buy a couple holsters (OWB, IWB). A while back I figured out that if a circumstance involved me wanting a WML I wouldn't want to be looking for a WML and a screwdriver. So now I keep one at least ready to go in the safe.

But under normal circumstances (I believe Tom Givens even puts night sights in this category) there is going to be enough light in a public place to identify a target. But not all circumstances are normal, so I do like night sights, but do not have them on every single gun. I bought the IWB holster thinking more natural disaster situation, when you might not have the typical ambient electric lights.

I live in a suburban house, but we are backed up to a nature conservancy, and there are no street lights, and it can be pretty dark. When out with the dogs I have a handheld multifunction light that has several settings, one of the dimmer settings is perfect for not stepping in a turd, and the brighter setting are good for seeing if there are any eyeballs looking back at us from the woods. Typically I will have a M&P Compact or a Shield Plus (both have night sights). But the other day the coyotes were making some extra racket (never had one come into the clearing, but they sound pretty close sometimes) so I traded for the full size with the WML. If I am ever shooting past my dogs I will want to be using both hands.

[Default.mp3]

On the beep, he could either drop the handheld, draw his pistol and use his WML, or just keep the handheld light in his hand and draw and shoot one handed. Contrary to his expectation, just keeping the light on and drawing and shooting one handed was faster and easier.I would think that would be very dependent on hand size, light size, holster type, concealment garments, WML switchology, etc., and that's only on a flat range, without movement from the shooter or target, or the possibility of multiple targets.

[Noah]

I would think that would be very dependent on hand size, light size, holster type, concealment garments, WML switchology, etc., and that's only on a flat range, without movement from the shooter or target, or the possibility of multiple targets.


In that scenario, wouldn't keeping a constant awareness of the target with handheld as you both move etc be better?

I'd never tell someone not to carry a WML if they can and want to, and I'd never try to argue that once you're actually pulling the trigger, a WML isn't better than handheld, it's more about the case for the "need" to carry one.

[rob_s]

I did a drill shooting at night with my brother which got him to "see the light" on this.

So we started with a handheld on the nefarious steel plate. On the beep, he could either drop the handheld, draw his pistol and use his WML, or just keep the handheld light in his hand and draw and shoot one handed. Contrary to his expectation, just keeping the light on and drawing and shooting one handed was faster and easier.


I would think that would be very dependent on hand size, light size, holster type, concealment garments, WML switchology, etc., and that's only on a flat range, without movement from the shooter or target, or the possibility of multiple targets.

The test in question does appear to be more designed to prove a point than to test a theory, at least the way in which it is described.

[NETim]

Great points, thanks for taking the time to post them!

To clarify, the context of the article is for a civilian (non-LEO) in a public setting. Inside one's home is a different set of circumstances (especially in a state with Castle Doctrine law), and a LEO (on duty or off) is going to have far more latitude in drawing their weapon without any "brandishing" repercussions.

A scenario that comes to mind is I already have my handheld light out for SA purposes in a public space - a practice I advocate. Suddenly, a threat emerges and I find myself in a defensive situation where the use of deadly force would be justified. As I draw my WML-equipped pistol, do I drop the handheld and transition to the WML, or do I keep the threat illuminated and continue to use the handheld with my well-practiced flashlight-pistol technique?

Under the stress of the moment, I think retaining the handheld light is going to be more instinctual because it's already in-hand and illuminating the threat.

So as a civilian in a public space, if my SOP is to have the handheld deployed whenever it's needed, and if I'm going to retain the light and use it with the pistol if a threat emerges, does a WML mounted to the pistol become largely irrelevant? Would my training bandwidth be better spent on a tool that has broader application?

As always, just my 2-cents served up as food for thought. My thanks again to all for chiming in!

First of all, I like your article. It jives with the training I've had and my personal experience. My serious firepower HD firearms are equipped with WML's.

My handheld lights are both antiques in today's world, the Nighthawk Gladius and its' direct descendant, the Estrella. Both are large, robust and reliable lights IMHO. I am sure there are much brighter lights to be had nowadays, but I love the way those lights feel in hand and how they operate. The Estrella will peel paint I think. :)

To paraphase Clint Smith, "It's a big light when I put it on and it's a big light when I pull it out."

[Noah]

The test in question does appear to be more designed to prove a point than to test a theory, at least the way in which it is described.

The point being, "not carrying a WML might not in fact be instant Kilt in Streetz" as we (my brothers and I) had once believed

[Default.mp3]

In that scenario, wouldn't keeping a constant awareness of the target with handheld as you both move etc be better?

I'd never tell someone not to carry a WML if they can and want to, and I'd never try to argue that once you're actually pulling the trigger, a WML isn't better than handheld, it's more about the case for the "need" to carry one.I dunno. It may not be. If you lose track of each other, could very well give you the ability to then disengage and exfil. In theory, the would-be assailant just had a shit ton of lumens in their face and probably can't see you very well, if it's dark enough that you have to use your light, plus your draw should be fast enough that it should be relatively easy to figure out which direction they went even with movement. Dunno, just seemed to me that if first shot on target was the primarily determinant, it didn't seem very likely for either party to be standing flat footed, and still ignores a host of the other factors I noted.

I'm not saying that WMLs are a necessary component of an EDC gun, even though I only carry with a full-sized WML, just that the test itself seemed very one-dimensional and would not have swayed me in itself.

[rob_s]

The point being, "not carrying a WML might not in fact be instant Kilt in Streetz" as we (my brothers and I) had once believed

I can buy that.

So long as the point wasn’t “there is no benefit whatsoever in carrying a pistol with a wml”.

😜

[joshs]

The test in question does appear to be more designed to prove a point than to test a theory, at least the way in which it is described.

I've used the turning targets on our indoor range to do something similar that I learned from ToddG.

The shooter doesn't know if the target is a threat or non-threat and has to PID before drawing pistol. I generally find that it's easier to keep the handheld in my hand an draw and shoot SHO.

I think the drill represents a pretty realistic use of a light for a civilian where searching with a gun out seems like a bad idea. There are obviously scenarios where a WML makes a lot more sense (home defense, field use, walking a dog, and carrying young kids).

[Noah]

I can buy that.

So long as the point wasn’t “there is no benefit whatsoever in carrying a pistol with a wml”.

😜

Nope, like I said, "I'd never tell someone not to carry a WML if they can and want to, and I'd never try to argue that once you're actually pulling the trigger, a WML isn't better than handheld, it's more about the case for the "need" to carry one."

[Default.mp3]

The shooter doesn't know if the target is a threat or non-threat and has to PID before drawing pistol. I generally find that it's easier to keep the handheld in my hand an draw and shoot SHO.Handheld in the draw, you could pretty easily be as fast to that first shot, or possibly even faster, especially if your WML's switchology isn't super great for you and your hands are big enough in relation to your light. But the original post was talking about a one-handed draw (and I assume keeping the light on target the whole time), which I personally find it very unlikely for myself to ever be as fast if I'm having to clear concealment garments, especially consistently.

Dunno, maybe I'm colored by how easy my switchology is, given that I use a DG switch.

[NH Shooter]

With a high-candela "fight light" already deployed, during the draw I aim to keep the beam in the face of the assailant to create a photonic barrier.

I drill this regularly at home: I have an IDPA target set up about 15 feet away and start with the light illuminating it with only the spill (hot spot at the feet). I raise the beam from the "low ready" position to place the hot spot on the head of the target while drawing the pistol from concealment, acquire a sight picture and press the trigger on a snap cap. This routine is basically a draw-from-cover exercise using the strong hand only while controlling the placement of the light with the support hand. I think the ability to use a photonic barrier (and possibly induce some retina leaching) provides an advantage worth pursuing.

At the local indoor range we cannot draw and fire from a holster, so I do the same drill but with the pistol in a low-ready position as well. With this exercise I focus more on the mechanics of shooting in combination with the light.

Having the "fight light" already in-hand is really key to taking full advantage of the options it opens. If the fight light has to be drawn along with the pistol, the WML will prevail every time.

The following photos were taken using the Malkoff E2 Hyper Throw head (500 lumen | 35,000 cd) to illustrate use of the fight light (distance to target about 30 feet), and ideally in combination with MUC technique;

The low-light environment;

https://i.ibb.co/6w4nLyh/EDCbeamshot-6.jpg



Using beam spill to detect & assess threat;

https://i.ibb.co/PmjMP0N/EDCbeamshot-10.jpg



Using beam hot spot to create a photonic barrier;

https://i.ibb.co/9pXdpCh/EDCbeamshot-9.jpg

[NH Shooter]

To further define the ideal attributes of a "fight light" that differentiate it from an "everything else" EDC flashlight, we must consider how to create an effective photonic barrier and any temporary flash blindness that can be achieved.

The brightness of a light source is measured in luminous intensity. For a flashlight, candela is the measure of luminous intensity;


https://i.ibb.co/1sbGYhN/luminance-illuminance-luminous-intensity-luminous-flux.png



Luminous flux is the measure of light output in all directions, the common "lumen" rating of flashlights. The lumen rating of a flashlight does NOT indicate how bright it is, only the total output of the light source in all directions. So in predicting how effective a flashlight will be for creating a photonic barrier and depriving an assailant of their ability to see where we are or what we're doing, it's the candela (cd) rating that needs to be considered.

So how much cd is needed to be effective in real life defensive situations?

A few years ago I had the opportunity (and pleasure!) to work with a LEO P-F member who was a warrant officer at the time. He had reached out to me for advice on a light to be used in warrant arrests, specifically the use of the light to more quickly subdue suspects who weren't going to cooperate. We started with a Malkoff M91T head (750 lumen | 20,000 cd) and he found that this level of brightness was pretty effective inside rooms that were not brightly lit. Looking to go a step further, he purchased a Modlite OKW (680 lumen | 69,000 cd) and found that when the narrow beam was directed into the eyes it was devastatingly effective. The problem was that the 69k cd hot spot was not very wide, so he then tried the Modlite PLHv2 (1,350 lumen | 54,000 cd) and found that the wider (though less intense) hot spot worked better for his application.

So based on this, I would say for the civilian fight light, we should consider 20,000 cd as the minimum.

Mirror Testing

There's nothing like being subjected to bright light yourself to see first-hand how blinding it is. Using a mirror about 12 feet away (equal to 24 feet distance between user and assailant), as I climbed the ladder to higher and higher cd lights, the effect became increasingly effective. It's very difficult to look past a 20,000 cd beam, and it's downright painful to even keep the eyes open at 70,000 cd. Keep in mind that brightness is inversely proportional to distance, but I think judging blinding effectiveness at around 21 feet is a reasonable measure.

One of the trade-offs of high cd flashlights is that as the beam becomes more focused, the more narrow the high cd hot spot becomes and the more difficult it becomes to keep the beam in the eyes of the assailant (this is what my warrants officer friend had observed as well). So the ideal fight light beam is going to have a beam brightness of at least 20,000 cd with as wide of a hot spot as possible. This is where the lumen rating finally has some meaning: more lumens can be used to expand the size of the hot spot. Here's an example - using the 1,700 lumen | 70,000 cd Malkoff Hound Dog Super vs. the Malkoff E2XTD 650 lumen | 70,000 cd head, the Hound Dog Super is not brighter, but the hot spot is wider giving broader "blinding" coverage. Of course, this Hound Dog Super is physically way too large for civilian concealed EDC.

Another trade-off of high cd beam is that it's far from ideal for all of those mundane tasks an EDC flashlight is typically used for. Illuminating something in the hand with a 750 lumen | 20,000 cd beam is blinding, but with a 800 lumen | 5,000 cd beam not nearly as much. For these mundane tasks, a low-cd flood beam is ideal.

Conclusion

In order to fully leverage the benefits being discussed in this thread of a handheld fight light, it needs to be configured in a fashion that renders it impractical for mundane EDC flashlight use. But having the handheld fight light for SA and defensive use is IMO well worth the very small effort to carry two lights.


Photo 1: 550 lumen | 44,000 cd fight light on the left, 800/5 lumen SF E2T-MV (low cd flood pattern) on the right;

https://i.ibb.co/RpqZJWk/edclights-1.jpg



Photo 2: 500 lumen | 35,000 cd Malkoff E2HT EDCLB Dagger fight light;

https://i.ibb.co/MRdNYM4/dagger18350-GRK-1.jpg

[Tackleberry40sw]

114071
114072

This came in my email last night and I thought it is applicable.

[NH Shooter]

To continue my dissertation on handheld fight lights;

One of the most important considerations (an aspect I have spent years experimenting with) is optimizing control of the light: specifically the tail cap design and switch optimization. Some of the common issues with tail cap switch designs include;


Accidental latching of the switch while carrying (light on in pocket)
Inadvertent latching while using the light in momentary mode
Difficult access to switch while holding in ice pick/hammer grip

The first two issues are typically with the switch protruding overly proud from the rear of the light, making it too easy to latch. The third issue is typically with fully shrouded tail cap designs that place the switch deeper inside the rear of the tail cap, requiring a shift in grip in order to reach far enough in to latch the switch to constant-on.

One excellent solution to these issues is the "twisty" design that is momentary only and requires the tail cap to be turned tight to the flashlight body for constant-on operation. Personally I'm still a fan of this design;

https://i.ibb.co/m01DmxS/combatflashlight-2.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/kDRfhbp/combatflashlight-1.jpg


The only knock against the twisty design is that turning the tail cap to constant-on typically requires two hands. To address this a tail cap with "clicky" switch is needed in a package that avoids the three issues listed above.

Early on I determined that a "semi-shrouded" tail cap design would be the best bet to achieve my goals of easy momentary operation without accidental latching in the pocket or while in use. For the E-series lights I determined that the "Tactician style" E2T tail caps from Lumens Factory would serve as an ideal starting point.

I perform a few modifications to these tail caps;


Since the McClicky switch is not screwed into the body and is retained only by the boot and retaining ring, the switch has a tendency to tilt out of alignment if the retaining ring is too tight. To fix this issue, I use J-B Weld and bed the switch directly to the tail cap which locks it firmly in place.

The tail cap comes from LF with a tall, soft press silicone boot which makes the switch easy to manipulate but prone to accidental activation in the pocket and inadvertent latching while being used in momentary operation. As an option I replace the soft press boot with a low profile, medium press boot which fully addresses the accidental/unintentional latching issues.

In use these modifications result in a switch that works admirably for the fight light application: use the pad of the thumb for momentary operation and the tip of the thumb to latch the switch to constant-on. In the heat of a self-defense situation, one can mash down with the pad of the thumb and the switch will not latch, and constant-on can be accessed with a minor change in the thumb position;

https://i.ibb.co/tc27J4m/tailcapoperation-1.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/jbHRbq2/tailcapoperation-2.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/JtTgmSL/101522edclb-2.jpg


In combination with a clean (free of obstructions) knurled cylindrical body and a Grip Ring Kit (https://www.edclightbuilder.com/store/Grip-Ring-Kit-p536573829) (all pieces or a select few), control of the fight light is truly optimized.

https://i.ibb.co/cv01zMm/mdcxpl-1.jpg

[medmo]

it's more about the case for the "need" to carry one.

Maybe not everyone needs a WML but I do. We don’t all exist in the same environment. I live on acreage out in the middle of no where. It’s pitch dark here on no or low moon nights. I have a TLR-something mounted on all go to hand guns and long guns. My illumination needs are EDC hand held, head lamp and WML

[joshs]

I still really like the Malkoff E series 18650 body design with what I think is a now discontinued E2ST head that is a really good balance between throw and spill. The E series footprint just fits way better in my pocket than the P sized lights. The integrated mcclicky is well shrouded but still is easy enough to click for constant on.

[NH Shooter]

There are obviously many YT videos on the subject of EDC flashlights, WMLs and carrying a WML vs. a handheld light.

A few trends I've seen emerge over the last few years in regards to civilian EDC carry;


While a handheld is universally considered mandatory, a WML on the EDC pistol is a "nice to have" but doesn't seem as "mandatory" as it once was
A growing number of "SMEs" are foregoing a pistol WML for normal EDC to reduce bulk and carry discomfort
Like the handgun, when it comes to lights the more powerful the better
Like the handgun, there are ease-of-carry trade-offs to more powerful lights (larger size, heavier)
There's a huge difference in requirements for military/LEO vs. civilian EDC

Here are a couple of recent videos on the subject from what I'd consider reasonably credible sources. IMO they are worth the watch;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ri_NqxIoh8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqlfF2YSAOI

[NH Shooter]

The E series footprint just fits way better in my pocket than the P sized lights.

Agree 100%!

I did this scaled illustration a while back, but here is a size comparison. The E-series lights give up little in performance but are WAY easier to carry;

https://i.ibb.co/cY26fsw/comparison1.jpg


IMO, the Dagger really hits the sweet spot in size/weight/ease-of-carry vs. performance (but I admit the bias);


https://i.ibb.co/MRdNYM4/dagger18350-GRK-1.jpg

[joshs]

I really like what you've done with the LF tailcap and clip. The dagger looks like the optimal compact pocket light.

[Noah]

Agree 100%!

I did this scaled illustration a while back, but here is a size comparison. The E-series lights give up little in performance but are WAY easier to carry;

https://i.ibb.co/cY26fsw/comparison1.jpg


IMO, the Dagger really hits the sweet spot in size/weight/ease-of-carry vs. performance (but I admit the bias);


https://i.ibb.co/MRdNYM4/dagger18350-GRK-1.jpg


Wow. As someone who carries my light loose/deep in my pocket in an office, that's a compelling comparison. All the other high candela lights are just so much larger than the Streamlight 1L-AAs I've been carrying with a rechargeable CR123 for the last few years.

[paperman]

Two is one, one is none

Streamlight TLR-7 w/cr123 2.64oz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NH Shooter]

In reading through comments on YT videos on this subject, one of the comments in support of a pistol-mounted WML is that since it would only be used in those rare (if ever) circumstances when it's legally justified to draw the pistol, there is less worry about discovering a dead WML due to a discharged cell from other use. This is yet another advantage of a dedicated fight light, regardless of how it's carried.

This IMO is a serious consideration if only one "EDC light" is carried that's used for all of those mundane EDC tasks, and being depended upon should a more dire situation suddenly present itself.

[NH Shooter]

https://i.ibb.co/dQcVndC/edclights-2.jpg


Single output mode (850 Lumens | 44,000 cd)
Momentary operation only using plunger-style switch (https://www.lumensfactory.com/en/product_detail.php?pid=579)
4.8 ounces with 18350 cell
3.875" AOL (4" with switch boot projection)
Optimized for Rogers-Surefire technique (works fine with Harries, FBI, etc.)
Compare to Surefire X300T (https://www.surefire.com/x300t/)

Of course the beauty of the handheld fight light is that it can be used by itself for low-light SA, and threat detection/assessment. It can also be used to create a powerful photonic barrier against an aggressor if the threat does not warrant drawing the pistol.

[NH Shooter]

https://i.ibb.co/BwGM8Dh/edclights-3.jpg

Along with the fight light discussed above (and carried in a HBC (https://www.edclightbuilder.com/store/HBC-Horizontal-Belt-Carrier-p571469803)), this is my most recent rendition of an 18350 EDC "everything else" light. It uses the Malkoff MDC XP-L (https://malkoffdevices.com/products/copy-of-mdc-xp-l-16650-500-lumen-flashlight) head which is three modes (30 | 300 | 800 lumen), an E1 body (https://www.edclightbuilder.com/store/E1-18350-Body---HA-Black-p520876014), E2T tail cap (https://www.edclightbuilder.com/store/EDCLB-E2T-Tailcaps-p518674538) and Grip Ring Kit (https://www.edclightbuilder.com/store/Grip-Ring-Kit-p536573829). This light is carried via the DIP method in a front pocket, the wrist lanyard (https://www.edclightbuilder.com/store/EDCLB-Custom-Wrist-Lanyard-p527933779) makes retrieval and retention easy.

Though a low-candela, three-mode light is far from ideal for fight light use, this version optimized for a syringe grip/R-S Technique can be pressed into that service in a pinch.

[stomridertx]

What is interesting about good information being presented is how it can completely change a mindset. Last year I was convinced that that the TLR-7a was the greatest thing ever, put one on every Glock, and got holsters to match and bitched when some maker didn't support it. Threads like this, and my own experience experimenting with the TLR-7a night shooting, have shifted me to going back to handheld only. Most of the reasons for this have already been discussed and I'd just be repeating them again, but I do have one reason I think is unique.
Holster frustrations.
When talking about kydex holsters that retain the pistol only on friction, the TLR-7 just flat out doesn't have enough to mold on to have retention I'm comfortable with. On the flip side, while the TLR-1 and X300 lights can retain really well, they make the gun much larger. When the gun doesn't have a light at all and the kydex retains the gun by the trigger guard, the retention can be tweaked to very securely keep the gun holstered and still be able to draw it quickly. The satisfying "click" when holstering in a trigger guard retention holster is enough for me to go away from WMLs on pistols. I've seen video of a WML equipped pistol yeeting itself from a friction-only holster while the shooter was running that only strengthens my belief that this is an issue. It helps that over the last year I've become more comfortable shooting strong hand only and have come up with a palm-sized shock cord lanyard set up that I really like for retaining a handheld light while shooting with a 2-hand grip.
The above pertains to concealed carry. On my range battle belt I run a Blackhawk T-Series holster that alleviates this concern. Even so, I have both the TLR-7 WML version and the model for the pistol only. The pistol-only version is a noticeably smaller footprint than the TLR7 version and I feel it re-holsters better. More affirmation that I prefer just to use a handheld going forward.
This might be the year I explore the 1911 for the first time, and if I do I might forgo a railed version altogether.

[Clusterfrack]

I’m really happy with the TLR7 and 8, and have no issues with solid holster fit.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240202/c4d3b43e4b45f071ec20c40f89d7bbf2.jpg

[Sadmin]

Great article, thank you for sharing your insight. I am in the Handheld all the time; +WML for long-gun camp. Not into WMLs for pistol in part due to bulk in AIWB &
I dont like the idea of having to point my handgun at someone in order to PID. It does make me wonder if there is a market for a rifle mounted light that can swivel up & forward
so you could walk muzzle below waist while still momentarily flashing a burst forward.

[stomridertx]

I’m really happy with the TLR7 and 8, and have no issues with solid holster fit.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240202/c4d3b43e4b45f071ec20c40f89d7bbf2.jpg

I think it is subjective. I have JM Custom kydex OWB and IWB holsters for the Glock 19 with TLR-7a, and I think the entire forum would agree his stuff is among the best out there. It's not terrible by any stretch and probably as good as it can possibly get with those holsters. However, for me it doesn't compare favorably to a trigger guard retention, and combined with some of the great discussion around the subject of WMLs for concealed carry here on this forum is enough to push me over to the handheld only camp. When I did a comparison of standard owb kydex holsters by the same maker, one with the TLR-7 and one without any WML, my preference for both drawing and holstering from the trigger guard retention holster is just apparent. It's not a monumental difference and I don't believe a TLR-7 molded holster is getting anyone kilt in da streetz.

[NH Shooter]

...but worth the repeat here.

Old farts on pistol lights (I'm an old fart too);


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQHgbltzGdA&t=1196s

[Clusterfrack]

I think it is subjective. I have JM Custom kydex OWB and IWB holsters for the Glock 19 with TLR-7a, and I think the entire forum would agree his stuff is among the best out there. It's not terrible by any stretch and probably as good as it can possibly get with those holsters. However, for me it doesn't compare favorably to a trigger guard retention, and combined with some of the great discussion around the subject of WMLs for concealed carry here on this forum is enough to push me over to the handheld only camp. When I did a comparison of standard owb kydex holsters by the same maker, one with the TLR-7 and one without any WML, my preference for both drawing and holstering from the trigger guard retention holster is just apparent. It's not a monumental difference and I don't believe a TLR-7 molded holster is getting anyone kilt in da streetz.

Subjective, yes for sure. I can invert and shake my TLR8 holsters, and the gun doesn't fall out. That's all I'm looking for retention-wise.

[BillSWPA]

I can see some advantages to a weapon-mounted light. If I am at home, whatever gun I am wearing is my home defense gun until bedtime. Having options is good. If I am using a handheld light, I can switch to the WML by simply dropping the handheld light and letting the lanyard retain it on my wrist.

The biggest reason I do not carry a weapon mounted light is the added difficulty of doing so. My most common IWB EDC, a Glock 26, has few options for mounting a WML. I have carried a G19 with a TLR-7 in a JM Custom Kydex IWB #3, but even this very well designed holster puts more bulk inside my waistband than the same gun without the WML. I know of no pocket holsters that accommodate a WML.

I do not worry about not having a WML because I always have a handheld light, and can shoot strong handed. If I need to see what is happening outside my home, I am very likely not justified in drawing a gun. If I am drawing a gun, it is because I have already identified a threat.

The summer of 2020 and subsequent events have eliminated many of my assumptions about the situations we might face, so again, options are good.

[Tackleberry40sw]

https://youtu.be/81Ptb3kM4PI?si=KuA-FC3momkbf1li

jlw and NH Shooter: This covers in depth the topic covered in this thread.

[NH Shooter]

jlw and NH Shooter: This covers in depth the topic covered in this thread.

Thanks for posting, a great conversation!

FYI, this is the light (https://malkoffdevices.com/products/mdc-pocket-thrower) Dan was showing in the video.

[newyork]

That’s nice!

[Tackleberry40sw]

https://youtu.be/uLs4u1stghs?si=q01VRkiZ-v58SsO7

Another edition going in depth into the knee jerk reaction of Ken Hackathorn's Comments about WML's and the reality of what he really said and the reality of their use.