Glock 21 Gen 5 Reports (Also weird jam with mine)

[SwampDweller]

Before today, I had 388 rounds through my G21 Gen 5, almost all of it being Speer Lawman 230gr TMJ. I've been extremely impressed with how accurate I am with it, particularly with the Dawson target sights and Talon grip (sandpapery texture). As I've stated before, I consistently shoot the Glock 21 of any generation better than any other pistol when measured objectively. Recoil with standard pressure 230gr is about like shooting 9mm +P out of my G19. This particular G21 Gen 5 was purchased second hand from our local CCW instructor. He bought it new blue label, put the Dawson sights and Talon grips on it, shot less than 150 rounds, and sold it with 9 magazines for a steal. I have another G21 Gen 5 that I haven't shot yet because this one stole the show.

Today, on my 246th round of the range session, (634th round total, not counting the less than 150 the previous owner fired through it), I had a very strange stoppage. I will post pictures because they can illustrate better than I can describe it. The base of the cartridge was stuck in the magwell with the front of it sticking up sideways. I dropped the mag (1 round left in it), cleared it, loaded it in the mag again, and it fed and shot fine. I shot another 2 mags through it and it didn't do it again, but after so much flawless performance, it makes me wonder what happened. I've had lots of Glocks and never had one fail to feed during the first 1000 rounds.

My intentions were/are to get 1000 flawless rounds through this before I would consider it for carry. I guess I'm starting back at 0 now, and .45 ain't cheap, even for reloading relatively speaking. The magazine this happened with was one of the 3 Gen 5 mags that came with the gun. Considering it had less than 3 boxes through it before I got it, I find it hard to believe the magazine spring was already giving out.

What causes a stoppage like this? And when you are vetting a gun for carry and stoppages happen, how do you proceed with your vetting process at that point?

I really love the G21, and the Gen 5 may be the best shooting out of all of them. I'm planning to pick up a G30 Gen 5 when they are released as well. Does anyone have any reports on their G21 Gen 5 to compare notes with?

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[Leroy]

That looks like a bad magazine problem. I would number your mags and only ise that mag during training to see if it reoccurs.

[Joe Mac]

I have seen (albeit rarely) new Glock mags with a bit of rough plastic flashing on the inside where the metal seam meets at the rear. I imagine this is perhaps more common than we realize, but probably sorts itself with use; however, a couple of times at the range I've seen similar malfunctions with student officers' new guns. I took the mags apart, found the protruding flashing (which I deduced was interfering with free passage of the follower), and shaved it off with a knife -- problem solved. So you might wanna check inside the mags.

[Joe Mac]

As for vetting, Lawman is great practice ammo but at this juncture I'd just fire 200 rounds of carry ammo without incident, and call it good...

[fatdog]

My guess would be magazine too. I have about 900 rounds through mine without any issues.

[TC215]

Another vote for the magazine.

[SwampDweller]

I did isolate the magazine and will either relegate it to my beater/trainer G21 Gen 4, or simply trash it.

How does a malfunction like this even happen? I'm trying to understand what the potential causes are for one like this. It wasn't a huge deal to clear, but I've just never seen one like it before.

[HCM]

I did isolate the magazine and will either relegate it to my beater/trainer G21 Gen 4, or simply trash it.

How does a malfunction like this even happen? I'm trying to understand what the potential causes are for one like this. It wasn't a huge deal to clear, but I've just never seen one like it before.

I agree with prior posters that it’s a magazine issue.

The cycle of operation for Glock has three basic factors. The energy from the cartridge, discharging forces, the slide back the recoil spring, then forces the slide forward. The timing of the slide moving forward and the magazine and magazine spring, presenting the next round has to be in sync.

In this case, something in the magazine is causing the round to be presented just a little bit late.

[JF1]

If the top round in the magazine isn't properly oriented under the feed lips as the slide is moving forward and the stripper rail is trying to engage the case rim, then you can end up having a variety of failure to feed issues. Imagine during recoil the rounds in the magazine potentially bouncing (heavy projectile at the front) depending on shooter's improper grip, weak magazine springs (full vs partial mag), dirty/defective mag, or poor design tolerances of timing. The failure to feed can end up being nose up or nose down depending on how the stripper rail is catching the case rim before the magazine spring can fully set the top round against the feed lips.

[JohnO]

I did isolate the magazine and will either relegate it to my beater/trainer G21 Gen 4, or simply trash it.

How does a malfunction like this even happen? I'm trying to understand what the potential causes are for one like this.

If a round escapes the mag feed lips before the proper loading sequence bad things happen.

[JonInWA]

I'd put 100 or so rounds through the 2 good magazines just to verify, than I'd call things good.

Joe Mac and HCM have called it. I'd disassemble the errant magazine, remove any stray flashing, re-assemble, and run several hundred rounds through it.

Even after that it's verified, I'd number the magazines and watch it carefully. If used for carry, it would be my last to be reloaded.

Best, Jon

[SwampDweller]

I have over 70 G21 mags, most unopened from their packaging, so I just tossed the questionable one, just in case. I’ll get another one to replace it at work tomorrow. Not worth messing with, especially for a carry gun.

[JonInWA]

I have over 70 G21 mags, most unopened from their packaging, so I just tossed the questionable one, just in case. I’ll get another one to replace it at work tomorrow. Not worth messing with, especially for a carry gun.

Excellent move/decision.

Best, Jon

[Joe Mac]

I have over 70 G21 mags, most unopened from their packaging, so I just tossed the questionable one, just in case. I’ll get another one to replace it at work tomorrow. Not worth messing with, especially for a carry gun.

You're one of my people, I see... While I've fixed many ailing mags for the PD, when it comes to my use I own so many that I tend to just mark them with a sharpie and toss them into a practice bin -- because fixing and vetting them requires time, my time = money, and I've already spent a lot of money on mags!

[Duces Tecum]

I did isolate the magazine and will either relegate it to my beater/trainer G21 Gen 4, or simply trash it.

This is a rare opertunity. Please consider fixing it before relegation, and let us know what you did and the results achieved. If you simply throw it into the training box, we will learn nothing and neither you nor anybody else will benefit from the incident. That would be a sadness.

Cordially,
Duces

[JonInWA]

Especially if it's a high capacity magazine, and you're in a state that grandfathers but restricts future ownership. Best, Jon

[TWR]

I bought the first 21.5 I saw on the shelf. Took it out and had a very similar jam as you did with 230 grain +P HST. Manually running the slide it felt and looked like it was hanging up on the sharp edges of the feed ramp/barrel. I shot some more with 200 grain ball and it happened again. I called Glock and they wanted to look at it.

When it came back I couldn’t tell anything had been done to the feed ramp/barrel area so I called and asked what they found. They said the new 21’s were sprung really heavy and something about a new cover plate, the old one wasn’t letting the extractor work properly. Nothing said made sense to me but I took it out to try it and ran into a guy that noticed my grip was contacting the right side slide release. He said that has caused more than a few problems. I adjusted my grip and it has never happened again.

I still don’t know if it was the gun, ammo or me but it runs great now with everything I’ve fed it.

[SwampDweller]

I bought the first 21.5 I saw on the shelf. Took it out and had a very similar jam as you did with 230 grain +P HST. Manually running the slide it felt and looked like it was hanging up on the sharp edges of the feed ramp/barrel. I shot some more with 200 grain ball and it happened again. I called Glock and they wanted to look at it.

When it came back I couldn’t tell anything had been done to the feed ramp/barrel area so I called and asked what they found. They said the new 21’s were sprung really heavy and something about a new cover plate, the old one wasn’t letting the extractor work properly. Nothing said made sense to me but I took it out to try it and ran into a guy that noticed my grip was contacting the right side slide release. He said that has caused more than a few problems. I adjusted my grip and it has never happened again.

I still don’t know if it was the gun, ammo or me but it runs great now with everything I’ve fed it.

That's the first time I've heard of this. For the record, I have at least 648 rounds through mine, and the stoppage I had only happened once. If you remember any more details about the cover plate I'd be very interested to hear.

Makes me wonder if there's a difference between the first Gen 5 G21s that came out and current production ones

[SwampDweller]

I have another 1k rounds of Speer Lawman 230gr on the way. I do prefer to shoot factory loaded Lawman while I'm vetting a pistol for carry. Problem is, I'm down to only the case that's about to ship, and I have two G21 Gen5s to vet as well as a new HK45C.

[SwampDweller]

Update: Today I shot my other G21 Gen 5 I purchased new. I had the exact same weird stoppage that my other G21 Gen 5 had detailed in the OP of this thread. It was using a completely different, fresh, magazine, and it did it on the 2nd to last round (12th). It's an oddly specific type of stoppage to happen on two different Gen 5 G21s using different mags that had functioned fine up until that happened. The round that did it was the 259th round of the range session, and it had 242 rounds in a previous range session through it before that. I shot another 45 rounds after the jam and it did not repeat. So it was the 600th or 601st round, which is very close to the round count my other G21 Gen 5 was at when it happened to it.

With all the Gen 3 and Gen 4 G21s I've owned and shot, I've always loaded all 13 rounds in the mag during range sessions and have never experienced this type of stoppage before. It makes me wonder if something that was tweaked with the Gen 5 makes it more susceptible for some reason. To be clear, though, both had gone over 500 rounds before this happened, and with both guns it only happened once (but both only had a few mags run through them afterwards).

Here are pics, these were taken today:
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[TWR]

Wow that makes one wonder.

After lots of thought, I remembered mine was more of a 3 point jam.

I shot some Lost River’s hard cast flat point 250’s at 925 fps today and they fed great and shot to the dot. It’ll be my nighttime backup pig gun as soon as I can find a holster to fit the TLR-1 light (safarilands holster finder sucks). I’ve got enough rounds through it that I trust it and it handles as good or better than any other pistol I’ve shot.

Have you reached out to Glock? Maybe they’ve heard of this before.

[Noah]

Wow that makes one wonder.

After lots of thought, I remembered mine was more of a 3 point jam.

I shot some Lost River’s hard cast flat point 250’s at 925 fps today and they fed great and shot to the dot. It’ll be my nighttime backup pig gun as soon as I can find a holster to fit the TLR-1 light (safarilands holster finder sucks). I’ve got enough rounds through it that I trust it and it handles as good or better than any other pistol I’ve shot.

Have you reached out to Glock? Maybe they’ve heard of this before.

Most Safariland WML holsters are not light specific and will fit almost any full size light, unless they are specially a newer 7ts model for a TLR7 size light, if that helps. Do you have an optic?

[SwampDweller]

Wow that makes one wonder.

After lots of thought, I remembered mine was more of a 3 point jam.

I shot some Lost River’s hard cast flat point 250’s at 925 fps today and they fed great and shot to the dot. It’ll be my nighttime backup pig gun as soon as I can find a holster to fit the TLR-1 light (safarilands holster finder sucks). I’ve got enough rounds through it that I trust it and it handles as good or better than any other pistol I’ve shot.

Have you reached out to Glock? Maybe they’ve heard of this before.

Makes one wonder indeed.

I have not reached out to Glock, but I am about to email them with pics. It does seem too specific to be coincidence. Did you remember anything more exact that they told you they discovered with the Gen 5?

[TWR]

Most Safariland WML holsters are not light specific and will fit almost any full size light, unless they are specially a newer 7ts model for a TLR7 size light, if that helps. Do you have an optic?

Yes a Holosun 507c. I was seen by nothing for Gen 5’s and some say they fit, some say no. Any help appreciated.

[TWR]

Makes one wonder indeed.

I have not reached out to Glock, but I am about to email them with pics. It does seem too specific to be coincidence. Did you remember anything more exact that they told you they discovered with the Gen 5?

Not really, just they are sprung heavy and the changed the striker cover because it was not letting the extractor work properly. Neither made me confident that it was fixed. Keeping my finger clear of the right side slide release and many flawless rounds did.

Yours happening on two different guns and magazines at the 12th round is just bizarre but bizarre enough that I wouldn’t dismiss your grip shifting and possibly doing something odd. I don’t know just don’t overlook anything.

[Noah]

Yes a Holosun 507c. I was seen by nothing for Gen 5’s and some say they fit, some say no. Any help appreciated.

Do you need retention or could you use like a Floodlight?

[TWR]

I don’t have to have retention but even the floodlight doesn’t list the 21.5 or even the 21.

[SwampDweller]

Glock did offer for me to send the gun(s) in for inspection. The guy I was talking to was very nice and it didn’t seem like there was some known issue with the G21 Gen 5. Considering how many rounds it took for the stoppages to happen with each gun, I doubt they would find anything if I sent the pistols to them.

I’m still kind of iffy whether I want to blow another thousand rounds to see if it will do it again. My minimum round count requirement without a stoppage for carry/defense is 1000 rounds. My HK45C passed it in less than a week, with one range session sending over 500 rounds through the HK at one time.

I really like the Gen 5 G21 and the way it shoots. I want to have one I can trust. Those were some weird stoppages, though. I still have a spare Gen 4 G21 I haven’t completely vetted yet, and I’m wondering if I should just stick with Gen 4 (though I do wonder if Glock will discontinue it now that the Gen 5 is online).

[SwampDweller]

In fact, thinking for the long term, I wonder if I should replace my two Gen 5 G21s with Gen 3 21SF’s. My reasoning is:
1. Glock has a track record of discontinuing Gen 4 models in calibers where the Gen 5 has come online, but continue Gen 3 production.

2. I can easily find OEM slide and frame parts kits for the Gen 3 G21SF and keep several to keep the guns going the rest of my days, whereas I can’t find any OEM slide and frame parts kits for the Gen 4 G21s.

[Noah]

In fact, thinking for the long term, I wonder if I should replace my two Gen 5 G21s with Gen 3 21SF’s. My reasoning is:
1. Glock has a track record of discontinuing Gen 4 models in calibers where the Gen 5 has come online, but continue Gen 3 production.

2. I can easily find OEM slide and frame parts kits for the Gen 3 G21SF and keep several to keep the guns going the rest of my days, whereas I can’t find any OEM slide and frame parts kits for the Gen 4 G21s.

Is Gen5 in the first part of the post supposed to be Gen4?

Are you shooting 5,000+++ rounds per year in each gun where you expect to be needing replacement parts that badly?

ETA: I agree Glock will likely discontinue the Gen 4.

[PNWTO]

ETA: I agree Glock will likely discontinue the Gen 4.

On another forum, a guy “in-the-know” said that his organization was told that Gen 4 production has begun to taper off; goal being to eventually maintain the bare minimum Gen 3/4 production needs for LE and Gov contracts.

[JonInWA]

Glock did offer for me to send the gun(s) in for inspection. The guy I was talking to was very nice and it didn’t seem like there was some known issue with the G21 Gen 5. Considering how many rounds it took for the stoppages to happen with each gun, I doubt they would find anything if I sent the pistols to them.

I’m still kind of iffy whether I want to blow another thousand rounds to see if it will do it again. My minimum round count requirement without a stoppage for carry/defense is 1000 rounds. My HK45C passed it in less than a week, with one range session sending over 500 rounds through the HK at one time.

I really like the Gen 5 G21 and the way it shoots. I want to have one I can trust. Those were some weird stoppages, though. I still have a spare Gen 4 G21 I haven’t completely vetted yet, and I’m wondering if I should just stick with Gen 4 (though I do wonder if Glock will discontinue it now that the Gen 5 is online).

I strongly recommend just hitting the "Easy" switch and send the gun (and all of your magazines) to the Mothership in Georgia for them to examine; they'll probably do that on their dime shipping-wise, and will thoroughly go through the gun, ideally eliminating any potential or actual causal factors. THEN you can expend a thousand or so rounds.

I like my Gen 3, and it's going nowhere, but I think the Gen5s are an improvement in terms of both performance and ergonomics.

Best, Jon

[SwampDweller]

Is Gen5 in the first part of the post supposed to be Gen4?

Are you shooting 5,000+++ rounds per year in each gun where you expect to be needing replacement parts that badly?

ETA: I agree Glock will likely discontinue the Gen 4.

No, I meant to say Gen 5s.

Nah, I don't expect to need to frequently replace parts, but I do like having them on hand for peace of mind. At this current time I have three Gen 4's and two Gen 5's. (One Gen 4 is a PD trade in I use as a dedicated trainer)

[RevolverJIM]

Strangely I have recently had similar stoppages with two of my Gen 5 G17s, none so far with the gen 5 G21 but only about 200 rounds through the G21. Never a stoppage through my Gen 4 G21.

My G17 stoppages were about half way through the fully loaded Glock mags.........call me confused:)

Edited to add: My S&W revolvers don't suffer from stoppages of any kind:)

[45dotACP]

And thus Glock has become the 1911....

[SwampDweller]

On another forum, a guy “in-the-know” said that his organization was told that Gen 4 production has begun to taper off; goal being to eventually maintain the bare minimum Gen 3/4 production needs for LE and Gov contracts.

Any word on Gen 3 in particular? So far, Gen 3 has remained in production for the public while Gen 4 has been discontinued to the commercial market and only sold to LE/gov

[SwampDweller]

I see that the Speer Lawman 230gr ammo is advertised as 830 FPS, which is a bit less than their duty load at 890 FPS. I wonder if the somewhat weaker Lawman load could've contributed to the stoppages. American Eagle is listed at 890fps.

[Joe Mac]

I see that the Speer Lawman 230gr ammo is advertised as 830 FPS, which is a bit less than their duty load at 890 FPS. I wonder if the somewhat weaker Lawman load could've contributed to the stoppages. American Eagle is listed at 890fps.

For what it's worth, our PD range had a recent lot (or lots) of Lawman 124 with occasional underpowered cartridges -- not full blown squibs, but clearly softer, with some attendant malfunctions. Could be that QC has slipped recently for some reason.

[RevolverRob]

Try this:

Unload the gun - bring it up in your firing position and press hard with your grip and look at where your index finger is in relation to the frame - is it close to the slide release?

Now loosen your grip a bit and see if the gun can move around so your index finger gets close enough to brush the slide release.

Here is my hypothesis:

Later in your shooting sessions your grip is relaxing a bit due to fatigue. It becomes acute as you get towards the bottom of a full magazine. The ambi slide release on the Gen5 now can be bumped, causing a very slight drag on the slide. That drag slows the slide just enough to disrupt the feeding process.

If you find you're able to drag the ambi slide release. I would buy a Gen5 slide release and grind the right side (left hand) side down flush with the frame. Install it and shoot 500 rounds, I bet it doesn't happen again.

I'd be willing to place a small wager that the solution is your grip and not the gun. Or rather a combination of the two, you never noticed it with previous G21s, because they don't have ambi slide releases.

[SwampDweller]

Try this:

Unload the gun - bring it up in your firing position and press hard with your grip and look at where your index finger is in relation to the frame - is it close to the slide release?

Now loosen your grip a bit and see if the gun can move around so your index finger gets close enough to brush the slide release.

Here is my hypothesis:

Later in your shooting sessions your grip is relaxing a bit due to fatigue. It becomes acute as you get towards the bottom of a full magazine. The ambi slide release on the Gen5 now can be bumped, causing a very slight drag on the slide. That drag slows the slide just enough to disrupt the feeding process.

If you find you're able to drag the ambi slide release. I would buy a Gen5 slide release and grind the right side (left hand) side down flush with the frame. Install it and shoot 500 rounds, I bet it doesn't happen again.

I'd be willing to place a small wager that the solution is your grip and not the gun. Or rather a combination of the two, you never noticed it with previous G21s, because they don't have ambi slide releases.

That would make sense. Handling my G21 Gen 5, it's hard to imagine my finger touching the slide stop enough to push it up against the slide, but I suppose it is possible given the position of my finger. Maybe I should try a vetting process where I don't shoot more than 250 rounds at a time.

[SwampDweller]

I took one of my G21 Gen 5s out shooting yesterday (the one in the OP) along with a case of American Eagle 230gr FMJ to run through it (not all of it at once, mind you). I loaded the mag (fresh Gen 5 mag that had never had an issue before) to 12 rounds. On that first mag of the range session, it had the exact same weird malfunction detailed in the OP (again on the second-to-last round with the rear of the cartridge sticking down the magwell). This time I made sure to have my finger well away from the right side slide stop, and I was definitely not fatigued as it was the first mag of the day.

Not sure if it was me, I handed it off to a friend along with my AE ammo and let him shoot it for a bit while I focused on shooting my new shotgun. About 120 rounds later, it did the same thing to him. At that point I called it off as I didn't want to keep blowing through precious .45 ammo just to find out if it would keep doing it. I boxed the gun up and got out one of my low round count Gen 4 G21s to shoot instead. Shot 300 rounds through it without an issue, including using the same mag that had two stoppages in the Gen 5 shortly before. Also ran my USP 45 FS and HK45C for a couple hundred rounds each, also no issues.

At this point, that's such a weird jam to happen 3 times in less than 700 rounds with one G21 Gen 5, and also in another G21 Gen 5, I'm not thinking it's user error or a series of defective OEM magazines. It happened with Lawman and American Eagle 230gr. I have had consistently reliable function with those brands in particular for tens of thousands of rounds in other pistols, including other G21s of previous gens. It's frustrating because it's relatively infrequent and random, going sometimes hundreds of rounds before doing it again, and I can't begin to diagnose what the issue is. It's always the exact same type of stoppage, and on the 2nd to last round of a mag. It's even more frustrating because the G21 Gen 5 shoots so damn well. Not really sure what to do at this point, but no matter how you slice it, .45 is an expensive round to keep resetting round counts after stoppages to see if it can get to 1k rounds without a stoppage, only for it to keep happening.

EDIT: Regarding differences between the Gen 5 and Gen 4 G21, comparing the RSA's side by side, the Gen 5 is noticeably longer than the Gen 4's. This likely contributes to the heavier spring weight, as well as how the Gen 5 is softer shooting than the Gen 4.

[psalms144.1]

SwampDweller - If I were you, I'd definitely send that pistol back to Smyrna. Contact them and detail what you're experiencing, and they should be happy to provide a shipping label for you to get it back to them.

Sad to see this, unfortunately, while GLOCK's roll out of the Gen5 9mms was great, they have a track record of sending out new designs and letting the field find the problems with them (thinking back to the Gen4 fiasco, various issues with WMLs on earlier .40, etc).

[RevolverJIM]

While I haven't had any problems with my Gen 5 G21 I can tell that the RSA is somewhat stronger than my Gen 4 G21.

A bit puzzled why Glock would change the RSA on the Gen 5???

My guess is that the stronger RSA is not allowing the slide to go all the way back during recoil, causing the slide to catch the top of the next cartridge case body and not the base of the next cartridge in the magazine.

I have seen the very same symptoms in my Gen 5 G17 when shooting slightly under powered ammo (reloads), even though the slide is usually, but not every time, locked back when the last round is fired.

[SwampDweller]

While I haven't had any problems with my Gen 5 G21 I can tell that the RSA is somewhat stronger than my Gen 4 G21.

A bit puzzled why Glock would change the RSA on the Gen 5???

My guess is that the stronger RSA is not allowing the slide to go all the way back during recoil, causing the slide to catch the top of the next cartridge case body and not the base of the next cartridge in the magazine.

I have seen the very same symptoms in my Gen 5 G17 when shooting slightly under powered ammo (reloads), even though the slide is usually, but not every time, locked back when the last round is fired.

I really don't know why it's happening. At the end of the day what matters to me is whether I can trust them or not, and I cannot. If I were more committed, maybe I could diagnose and figure it out, but I'd rather put my time, energy, and ammo into other guns.

[JonInWA]

Again, I'll echo the recommendations to send to Smyrna, with a detailed letter describing your use protocols and the issues experienced.

This also reinforces to me why my Gen 3 G21 will be sticking with me, irrespective if I in the future get a Gen5 G21 or G30...

Best, Jon

[SwampDweller]

Again, I'll echo the recommendations to send to Smyrna, with a detailed letter describing your use protocols and the issues experienced.

This also reinforces to me why my Gen 3 G21 will be sticking with me, irrespective if I in the future get a Gen5 G21 or G30...

Best, Jon

I sold both my G21 Gen 5's yesterday and now only have my three Gen 4s, as they shoot well and I don't have any reliability issues with them. It's possible my trigger finger was interfering with the right side slide release causing the jams, but either way, they had to go.

For at least a while, I'll be sticking with my Gen 4s, and may even pick up a Gen 3 SF since spare parts are more available and the Gen 4 G21 will likely be discontinued, as with the 9mm and .40 Glock Gen 4s once the Gen 5s came online.

[JonInWA]

I did notice that the ambi OEM slide stop/release on my Gen5 G23 did seem to protrude out more so than on the previous generations-while I put on the extended one, arguably I really didn't need to on the Gen5.

But now you have money to spend on a GP100!

Best, Jon

[randyho]

In fact, thinking for the long term, I wonder if I should replace my two Gen 5 G21s with Gen 3 21SF’s. My reasoning is:
1. Glock has a track record of discontinuing Gen 4 models in calibers where the Gen 5 has come online, but continue Gen 3 production.

2. I can easily find OEM slide and frame parts kits for the Gen 3 G21SF and keep several to keep the guns going the rest of my days, whereas I can’t find any OEM slide and frame parts kits for the Gen 4 G21s.

Curious how the grip size differs between the two. Considering a switch to gen 5's but given the above, I'm not sure there's an upside.

The Gen 3 G21SF and my hand size has no reason to work as well as it does.

[JonInWA]

Curious how the grip size differs between the two. Considering a switch to gen 5's but given the above, I'm not sure there's an upside.

The Gen 3 G21SF and my hand size has no reason to work as well as it does.

Sometimes perceived ergonomics are different from actual results achieved-going with the empirically derived actual results is usually a good way to go.

Best, Jon

[SwampDweller]

Curious how the grip size differs between the two. Considering a switch to gen 5's but given the above, I'm not sure there's an upside.

The Gen 3 G21SF and my hand size has no reason to work as well as it does.

There's not enough difference in the grips for me to make a measurable difference in shooting. Subjectively, the Gen 5 felt better, but that could've been because of the Talon Grips, which I haven't put on my Gen 4s.

There's nothing wrong with the Gen 3 G21SF, and I don't think it's a bad idea go go "all in" on it as far as G21s go. They're well proven, accurate, shoot well, there are parts everywhere, and it looks like it's not going anywhere from Glocks lineup, which can't be said for the Gen 4s.

[JAH 3rd]

Sorry to hear about your Gen 5 21s functioning problems. Ammo is definitely too expensive to vet them even if you sent them back to Glock. That problem and fix will eventually come to light, but that time has not yet come. Don't blame you one bit for selling them. It would be hard to put one's faith in either one of them as a self-defense pistol

I have a Glock 21SF gen 3. The only complaint I have about it is the slippery grip. I know I could put tape on the grip but I went a different direction. I'm waiting for my 21 gen 4 to hit my FFL Monday. I have a gen 4 20 in 10mm. I like the improved grip texture and larger mag release button. For me, the gen 4 20 with no backstrap added feels slightly better in the hand than the 21SF. From what I've read, the gen 4 20/21 with no added backstrap supposedly has the same grip dimensions as the 21SF. I just prefer the gen 4 to the 21SF basically for the improved grip texture and larger magazine button. If you can, check out the grip on the 21SF before buying. Also, as a point of reference, I like the grip texture on the M&P 2.0 as well. My M&P 1.0 has a slippery grip texture which was fixed by the 2.0.

[SwampDweller]

Sorry to hear about your Gen 5 21s functioning problems. Ammo is definitely too expensive to vet them even if you sent them back to Glock. That problem and fix will eventually come to light, but that time has not yet come. Don't blame you one bit for selling them. It would be hard to put one's faith in either one of them as a self-defense pistol

I have a Glock 21SF gen 3. The only complaint I have about it is the slippery grip. I know I could put tape on the grip but I went a different direction. I'm waiting for my 21 gen 4 to hit my FFL Monday. I have a gen 4 20 in 10mm. I like the improved grip texture and larger mag release button. For me, the gen 4 20 with no backstrap added feels slightly better in the hand than the 21SF. From what I've read, the gen 4 20/21 with no added backstrap supposedly has the same grip dimensions as the 21SF. I just prefer the gen 4 to the 21SF basically for the improved grip texture and larger magazine button. If you can, check out the grip on the 21SF before buying. Also, as a point of reference, I like the grip texture on the M&P 2.0 as well. My M&P 1.0 has a slippery grip texture which was fixed by the 2.0.

Thanks. Part of me feels silly for selling them, but as you said, ammo is too expensive to vet them even if I send them back to get fixed. Meanwhile I have three G21 gen 4's that have been 100% reliable for thousands of rounds each.

You're right on the G21SF having a slippery grip. I've owned a couple of them in the past that I always ended up trading or selling for one reason or another (had nothing to do with the gun, they were all reliable and accurate). If I do get one, I'll likely put Talon Grips of some sort on it.

As stated earlier, the reason I'm considering a 21SF is because I suspect the 21 Gen 4 will be discontinued at some point, while the Gen 3 SF and Gen 5 will continue on. I'd like a steady supply of continually produced OEM parts and factory support. Eventually I'd have enough spare parts to keep them going for the rest of my life. At the moment, OEM small parts are still available for the Gen 4 (but not slides), so I need to stock up on those before they're discontinued. I do also prefer the Gen 4's texture and magazine release compared to the Gen 3s, though.