Vetting Process for a Defensive Pump Shotgun

[SwampDweller]

I am most likely about to order a Vang Comp Mossberg 590A1 "Standard", their 590A1 that they go over with a fine tooth comb and give some basic upgrades but leave it mostly a blank canvas for the end user to alter as/if they see fit. My main reason for going for it over a factory 590A1 is the potential increase in QC having a custom shop go over it and replace a few components such as the magazine follower and safety.

I have a vetting process for defensive pistols and rifles that has served me well, based on the rule-of-thumb espoused by the late Todd Green and DocGKR: Basic reliability for defensive use is at least 500 and preferably 1000 rounds without a stoppage (this is not necessarily without any breaks, cleaning, or lubrication in between). TLG has said that "long term reliability" is established at 2000 rounds. This is mainly speaking about semi-automatic pistols.

Seeing as a 590A1 is user-operated, how many rounds should one put through it to establish that the gun is indeed reliable enough to trust one's life to? Is it less than the 1k round rule-of-thumb? Also, what kinds of different loads should you run through it? Obviously 1k rounds of 00 buck is pretty expensive, but target loads don't put much stress on the gun at all. I've discovered that certain revolvers that can run thousands of rounds of .38 Special without a hitch start to have the wheels fall off when steady diets of full power .357 Magnum are run through it. Is there any translation of this over to pump shotguns?

A secondary concern is short stroking at the worst possible moment, which I have discussed here before, but I think I've put that behind me. Generally when I've encountered this, it's been with pump shotguns with stocks far too long for me (I'm 5'8", but used to short stocks like on AKs). I have confidence that with the Vang Comp Standard's shorter 13" LOP stock combined with good instruction and practice, I should be able to get good enough to where this isn't a life-threatening concern should the gravest extreme come to pass.

Thanks.

[Jason M]

Since its a VC gun, I would be comfortable with 50 quality slug, 50 buck (mix up FC and other buck to see how the VC barrel treatment patterns), and 50 econo-buy (shitty) bird shot. Zero with the slugs, Pattern with the buck. Challenge the extraction/ejection with the crappy bird shot. Focus on strong, complete, violent operation of the pump on every round. Check all components for tightness/damage. Wipe ir clean/lube. Load with the buck that shoots the best from your bbl. Put a couple of slugs with which you've zeroed on the gun. Call it good. Practice GOOD manipulations with dummies on a regular basis between range days. Take some good training (TC in VA, Rangemaster, etc) and continue to hone your skills. Does Not need be a whole lot more than that. If you add accessories (light, sling mounts, sling) , repeat the process with half the number of shells as above. Don't over think.

[SwampDweller]

Since its a VC gun, I would be comfortable with 50 quality slug, 50 buck (mix up FC and other buck to see how the VC barrel treatment patterns), and 50 econo-buy (shitty) bird shot. Zero with the slugs, Pattern with the buck. Challenge the extraction/ejection with the crappy bird shot. Focus on strong, complete, violent operation of the pump on every round. Check all components for tightness/damage. Wipe ir clean/lube. Load with the buck that shoots the best from your bbl. Put a couple of slugs with which you've zeroed on the gun. Call it good. Practice GOOD manipulations with dummies on a regular basis between range days. Take some good training (TC in VA, Rangemaster, etc) and continue to hone your skills. Does Not need be a whole lot more than that. If you add accessories (light, sling mounts, sling) , repeat the process with half the number of shells as above. Don't over think.

That sounds like a reasonable vetting process. I definitely want to take a shotgun class soon after I get it, familiarize myself with it, and vet it. I need to get some 12ga dummies. In terms of shitty econo-buy birdshot, what is the least shitty? That is, in terms of reliably going off and doing what it needs to do in regards to feeding and extraction.

While I grew up hunting with mainly Remington 870s (other than the old Winchester Youth 20ga I was handed down when I was 7), I do have my father's old Mossberg 500 16 ga that I have been using to familiarize myself with the controls.

[TCinVA]

Seeing as a 590A1 is user-operated, how many rounds should one put through it to establish that the gun is indeed reliable enough to trust one's life to?


When a client comes to me with a new pump gun in a private session, the first thing I'm looking for is mechanical function. I'll run the action dry a few times to see if anything stands out. Then I'll load the gun and see if anything feels off. I'll shoot a magazine's worth of shells through and see if anything feels off.

If it feels good there, I'll essentially mag dump the gun 2 or 3 times. Running a pump gun at .24-.3 splits will tell you a whole lot about how the gun is running.

If I encounter a problem there, I'll change ammo to see if it clears up with an ammo change. If not, I'll try to hone in on exactly where it's having an issue. Feeding, extraction, or ejection so I can advise the client on something useful they can tell the company that made it or a competent smith.

If it passes the mag dumps, I just run through the rest of the training. As I'm watching the client I'm also looking at how the gun is running. Consistent feeding, consistent ejection, etc.

The 2,000 round challenge was really a sort of torture test with a pistol understanding that reliability issues would likely manifest by the end of 2,000 rounds with no cleaning or lubrication. With a pump shotgun the issues tend to manifest much, much sooner.

If I take a pump gun out and run it through ~ 100-200 rounds of birdshot doing my usual training and I haven't identified any sort of issue, I'll pattern it with a couple of different types of buckshot and maybe run 25-50 rounds of cheap buckshot on some of my usual drills. If it gets through that without manifesting an issue, I'm not too worried about it.

And I try to do that with the gun in more or less the configuration I want it in. If I run the basic reliability test in stock form and then I put on a new magazine tube and replace the spring and follower I've introduced some significant changes to the system and I need to shake those down just to make sure things are working the way I expect. Of course, it helps that I'm probably using additions I've already used on other guns (Vang Comp follower, Volquartsen extractor, Wilson Combat or Vang Comp magazine tube extension, Vang Comp big dome safety, etc) so I'm reasonably certain that they're not going to give me any problems. If I use something I haven't used before I'll just do usual practice with it to shake it down and see how it runs.

With manually operated shotguns, there tends to be an upside down bell curve when it comes to likelihood of reliability issues. Up front with the gun new out of the box, you're most likely to experience problems with how the gun was manufactured or assembled. Then once you get past that initial 100-200 shells without an issue, the odds of encountering any sort of problem with the gun itself kind of craters into near zero if you are running the action with the correct enthusiasm. If you shoot the gun frequently and run it like you mean it for a long enough while, you start to climb up the other end of the bell curve just because you're going to start wearing things out. Shell stops, magazine springs, springs in the trigger plate...that stuff will eventually give you issues if you run the gun the same way you would fight with it.

The pump shotgun is one of the rare manually operated firearms that can take a real beating and still function. So don't think you have to baby it or minimize the round count on it to keep it working. Run it like you mean it. Just realize that running it that hard for an extended number of rounds and useful dryfire will eventually necessitate some forms of maintenance to keep the gun functioning properly.



Is it less than the 1k round rule-of-thumb?


On a pump gun, most definitely.

On a semi-auto I'd want more than the round count I described above, but even that isn't really 1,000 rounds and most assuredly not 1,000 rounds without cleaning or lube.



Also, what kinds of different loads should you run through it? Obviously 1k rounds of 00 buck is pretty expensive, but target loads don't put much stress on the gun at all.


If you're looking at mechanical function in a pump gun, pretty much any load will do. I'm perfectly happy running whatever inexpensive bulk birdshot I can find as a significant part of the shakedown, but with the knowledge that given the variability in shotgun shell manufacture that if I experience a problem step 1 in diagnosing it is to change ammunition. If I find that a particular gun hates roll-crimped ammunition, for example, that's useful information. Or I may find that just one manufacturer's ammunition is the issue. (Like Rio buckshot)

Most of the stress of running a pump gun comes from the user moreso than the ammunition. Shotgun shells are potent but relatively low pressure. They tend to shake things loose and then once those things are loose, it tends to tear them up. Sights, optic mounts, etc. On the 870 the magazine cap will loosen on you during shooting and then every time you fire a shot the barrel is literally trying to leave the gun. Then you run the action and slam the barrel into the nose of the ejector over an over and over again and that's how you break ejectors.

Make sure you use Loctite or VC3 on anything fastened to the gun because it will shake loose in short order if you don't.



I've discovered that certain revolvers that can run thousands of rounds of .38 Special without a hitch start to have the wheels fall off when steady diets of full power .357 Magnum are run through it.


Revolvers are hyper-sensitive about ammunition. Due to the nature of their function they are much pickier about what ammo they will run than pump guns, especially when the revolver gets a little bit of shooting through it. In less than 50 rounds with a soft lead bullet, most of my L frames will be semi-functional without a thorough cleaning. With FMJ ammo it can be a couple of hundred rounds before they start being grumpy enough to force you to give them a light scrubbing and wipedown with some solvent.

Pump shotguns...modern ones, anyway...tend not to be that delicate. They'll usually work just fine if they're under-lubricated and dirty from shooting. I clean my teaching 870 maybe once a year. Most of the time I just squirt some lube in the action, run it with vigor, and drive on. I don't get a lot of leading in the barrel of that gun because I use decent ammunition. If you find the bore of your gun accumulates fouling quickly you may want to try running through it with a honing system to smooth it up a bit. It will probably help with patterns, too.



I have confidence that with the Vang Comp Standard's shorter 13" LOP stock combined with good instruction and practice, I should be able to get good enough to where this isn't a life-threatening concern should the gravest extreme come to pass.


The 590 will readily take a Magpul stock. You can get a thinner butt pad from Kick-Eez that further shortens the length of pull of that stock. Extra insurance and a good idea overall.

[lwt16]

I was issued an 870 Police a year before I retired. I took it to our PD range with a mix of slugs, 00, 4buck, #8, etc and ran it as hard/fast as I could. Empty shells, wads, paper target debris everywhere once I was done. I think I was in the 200-250 round mark when I finally was happy with it and turned in my issued Benelli Nova.

They let me purchase that 870 at retirement and it continues to run fine.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This might be a diversion. My pump is a Winchester 1300 Defender - 8 shot. It's run fine through a Givens and Moses shotgun class and some IDPA-ish , USPSA-ish side matches. I read this blurb:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/little-guys-to-the-rescue-federal-s-force-x2-shorty-shotshells/

Opinions on this? Just hype? Does it run in a standard gun like mine?

The gun is currently loaded with our favorite Flite-Control 00 - which seems fine to me. But if the zombie apocalypse occurs, do you want a few more round - blah, blah.

[TCinVA]

Generally the mini shells don't run in a repeater that hasn't been adapted for them. A couple of outfits have sold adapters for the Mossberg, at least, that can be installed and removed relatively easily so you can swap back and forth. The S guns are dedicated to running mini shells and don't run full sized ones, I believe.

The X2 pellets don't seem to pattern great...but will probably be just fine at most home defense distances.

[L-2]

If it was me, I'd double-check somehow what the availability and lead time will be in getting a VangComp product due to this ~2 year old thread:
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1773337

Note, the thread seems to be mostly about folks sending in their guns to VangComp and may not apply to entire guns being sold by VangComp. Looking at VangComp's website, entire guns seem to be listed as "in-stock" which is promising.

https://vangcomp.com/product-category/firearms/

I've used the Mossberg 590A1 for most of my career and also bought my own (but also own three Remington shotguns, of which I don't necessarily recommend or not recommend in light of no recent experience with the current Remarms company).

I don't have any particular recommendation on number of rounds to put through a shotgun and think it more comes down to the individual's feelings of confidence and gathering of expertise in using a specific gun of any kind/shotgun.

For me, I'd pick some round numbers and probably go through 100 rounds of target/birdshot loads with exactly the configuration of shotgun (ammo carriers/lights/slings). Also sight-in using whichever slugs (5-10+rounds) I'll be carrying/shooting and patterning distances with whichever 00 buck (5-10+rounds) brands/models I'll be carrying or shooting.

If you feel you need to practice any particular technique or exercise add on more rounds.

When I say "for me", my personal experience and exposure to shotguns may differ from someone else's comfort level which is "only" 20+ years of daily carrying/using a shotgun for work and even carrying a shotgun off-duty in my personal vehicles or practicing on some of my off-days. The instructor(s) on this thread I'd think might even feel comfortable would even less rounds.

I don't see any specific 590A1 needing to be vetted with a certain number rounds to ensure reliability. That was done some decades ago to determine whatever the required mean time between failure (MTBF) rate needed to be for selection by whatever government entity/entities. Again, it's more vetting oneself with any specific gun or gun-model/type.

My old LE department used to qualify us 2x/year with ~5-10 rounds and send us out with whichever 590A1 was in the rack and not even the specific gun used for qualification. I've never counted or totaled the rounds fired in my career, but I'm guessing the minimum for a specific LEO might only be from 500-1000 rounds during the LEO's entire career (~20 years).

(Note, I posted my post without even yet reading Post 4, from our resident expert/instructor.) OP A lot will depend on you & your personal confidence although I realize some folks like specific numbers of rounds with objective goals, but I'm probably not as specific like that.:)

[SwampDweller]

When a client comes to me with a new pump gun in a private session, the first thing I'm looking for is mechanical function. I'll run the action dry a few times to see if anything stands out. Then I'll load the gun and see if anything feels off. I'll shoot a magazine's worth of shells through and see if anything feels off.

If it feels good there, I'll essentially mag dump the gun 2 or 3 times. Running a pump gun at .24-.3 splits will tell you a whole lot about how the gun is running.

If I encounter a problem there, I'll change ammo to see if it clears up with an ammo change. If not, I'll try to hone in on exactly where it's having an issue. Feeding, extraction, or ejection so I can advise the client on something useful they can tell the company that made it or a competent smith.

If it passes the mag dumps, I just run through the rest of the training. As I'm watching the client I'm also looking at how the gun is running. Consistent feeding, consistent ejection, etc.

The 2,000 round challenge was really a sort of torture test with a pistol understanding that reliability issues would likely manifest by the end of 2,000 rounds with no cleaning or lubrication. With a pump shotgun the issues tend to manifest much, much sooner.

If I take a pump gun out and run it through ~ 100-200 rounds of birdshot doing my usual training and I haven't identified any sort of issue, I'll pattern it with a couple of different types of buckshot and maybe run 25-50 rounds of cheap buckshot on some of my usual drills. If it gets through that without manifesting an issue, I'm not too worried about it.

And I try to do that with the gun in more or less the configuration I want it in. If I run the basic reliability test in stock form and then I put on a new magazine tube and replace the spring and follower I've introduced some significant changes to the system and I need to shake those down just to make sure things are working the way I expect. Of course, it helps that I'm probably using additions I've already used on other guns (Vang Comp follower, Volquartsen extractor, Wilson Combat or Vang Comp magazine tube extension, Vang Comp big dome safety, etc) so I'm reasonably certain that they're not going to give me any problems. If I use something I haven't used before I'll just do usual practice with it to shake it down and see how it runs.

With manually operated shotguns, there tends to be an upside down bell curve when it comes to likelihood of reliability issues. Up front with the gun new out of the box, you're most likely to experience problems with how the gun was manufactured or assembled. Then once you get past that initial 100-200 shells without an issue, the odds of encountering any sort of problem with the gun itself kind of craters into near zero if you are running the action with the correct enthusiasm. If you shoot the gun frequently and run it like you mean it for a long enough while, you start to climb up the other end of the bell curve just because you're going to start wearing things out. Shell stops, magazine springs, springs in the trigger plate...that stuff will eventually give you issues if you run the gun the same way you would fight with it.

The pump shotgun is one of the rare manually operated firearms that can take a real beating and still function. So don't think you have to baby it or minimize the round count on it to keep it working. Run it like you mean it. Just realize that running it that hard for an extended number of rounds and useful dryfire will eventually necessitate some forms of maintenance to keep the gun functioning properly.



On a pump gun, most definitely.

On a semi-auto I'd want more than the round count I described above, but even that isn't really 1,000 rounds and most assuredly not 1,000 rounds without cleaning or lube.



If you're looking at mechanical function in a pump gun, pretty much any load will do. I'm perfectly happy running whatever inexpensive bulk birdshot I can find as a significant part of the shakedown, but with the knowledge that given the variability in shotgun shell manufacture that if I experience a problem step 1 in diagnosing it is to change ammunition. If I find that a particular gun hates roll-crimped ammunition, for example, that's useful information. Or I may find that just one manufacturer's ammunition is the issue. (Like Rio buckshot)

Most of the stress of running a pump gun comes from the user moreso than the ammunition. Shotgun shells are potent but relatively low pressure. They tend to shake things loose and then once those things are loose, it tends to tear them up. Sights, optic mounts, etc. On the 870 the magazine cap will loosen on you during shooting and then every time you fire a shot the barrel is literally trying to leave the gun. Then you run the action and slam the barrel into the nose of the ejector over an over and over again and that's how you break ejectors.

Make sure you use Loctite or VC3 on anything fastened to the gun because it will shake loose in short order if you don't.



Revolvers are hyper-sensitive about ammunition. Due to the nature of their function they are much pickier about what ammo they will run than pump guns, especially when the revolver gets a little bit of shooting through it. In less than 50 rounds with a soft lead bullet, most of my L frames will be semi-functional without a thorough cleaning. With FMJ ammo it can be a couple of hundred rounds before they start being grumpy enough to force you to give them a light scrubbing and wipedown with some solvent.

Pump shotguns...modern ones, anyway...tend not to be that delicate. They'll usually work just fine if they're under-lubricated and dirty from shooting. I clean my teaching 870 maybe once a year. Most of the time I just squirt some lube in the action, run it with vigor, and drive on. I don't get a lot of leading in the barrel of that gun because I use decent ammunition. If you find the bore of your gun accumulates fouling quickly you may want to try running through it with a honing system to smooth it up a bit. It will probably help with patterns, too.



The 590 will readily take a Magpul stock. You can get a thinner butt pad from Kick-Eez that further shortens the length of pull of that stock. Extra insurance and a good idea overall.
Excellent information, thank you. So if I run it briskly with 200 rounds of birdshot, and then maybe 50 rounds of buckshot/slugs, it should be fine.

I really need to take a class as well once I get this thing.

[LHS]

Generally the mini shells don't run in a repeater that hasn't been adapted for them. A couple of outfits have sold adapters for the Mossberg, at least, that can be installed and removed relatively easily so you can swap back and forth. The S guns are dedicated to running mini shells and don't run full sized ones, I believe.

The X2 pellets don't seem to pattern great...but will probably be just fine at most home defense distances.

The S guns will run both mini and full-size shells.

[SwampDweller]

Update: I ordered the Vang Comp 590A1 Standard tonight, along with 250 rounds of Federal Power Shok 00 Buckshot 2 3/4 to run through it. I have plenty of Federal target loads as well. I didn't realize the Buckshot I ordered, while 2 3/4", is "Magnum" with 12 pellets in it. There's nothing particularly wrong with that, is there? SKU is F130 00

Eventually I plan to stock up on Federal Flight Control, but this was the best deal I could find right now for the vetting process.

[SwampDweller]

double posted on accident, thought previous post didn't go through.

[TCinVA]

Update: I ordered the Vang Comp 590A1 Standard tonight, along with 250 rounds of Federal Power Shok 00 Buckshot 2 3/4 to run through it. I have plenty of Federal target loads as well. I didn't realize the Buckshot I ordered, while 2 3/4", is "Magnum" with 12 pellets in it. There's nothing particularly wrong with that, is there? SKU is F130 00


Not particularly. It will offer more felt recoil (more mass leaving the barrel = more felt recoil) and might not pattern as tight because of more pellet to pellet contact and more velocity, but it will still probably pattern well enough for home defense work.

[SwampDweller]

Not particularly. It will offer more felt recoil (more mass leaving the barrel = more felt recoil) and might not pattern as tight because of more pellet to pellet contact and more velocity, but it will still probably pattern well enough for home defense work.

Good to know. It's primarily for patterning and vetting the shotgun, I'm going to pick up a couple of boxes of 9 pellet 00 buck to keep for home defense until I order a quantity pack of Flight Control. Hopefully that Vang Comp porting will take some of the recoil out of the 12 pellet load.

[gato naranja]

Good to know. It's primarily for patterning and vetting the shotgun, I'm going to pick up a couple of boxes of 9 pellet 00 buck to keep for home defense until I order a quantity pack of Flight Control. Hopefully that Vang Comp porting will take some of the recoil out of the 12 pellet load.

In my advanced encounter with Vang's barrel work, I perceived the gun to not rise as much, and maybe recoil a little bit less, but how much of the latter was due to the forcing cone, etc vs the ports I am not sure. Patterns with that gun/barrel using indifferent buckshot loads were improved. YMMV.

[HCM]

I am most likely about to order a Vang Comp Mossberg 590A1 "Standard", their 590A1 that they go over with a fine tooth comb and give some basic upgrades but leave it mostly a blank canvas for the end user to alter as/if they see fit. My main reason for going for it over a factory 590A1 is the potential increase in QC having a custom shop go over it and replace a few components such as the magazine follower and safety.

I have a vetting process for defensive pistols and rifles that has served me well, based on the rule-of-thumb espoused by the late Todd Green and DocGKR: Basic reliability for defensive use is at least 500 and preferably 1000 rounds without a stoppage (this is not necessarily without any breaks, cleaning, or lubrication in between). TLG has said that "long term reliability" is established at 2000 rounds. This is mainly speaking about semi-automatic pistols.

Seeing as a 590A1 is user-operated, how many rounds should one put through it to establish that the gun is indeed reliable enough to trust one's life to? Is it less than the 1k round rule-of-thumb? Also, what kinds of different loads should you run through it? Obviously 1k rounds of 00 buck is pretty expensive, but target loads don't put much stress on the gun at all. I've discovered that certain revolvers that can run thousands of rounds of .38 Special without a hitch start to have the wheels fall off when steady diets of full power .357 Magnum are run through it. Is there any translation of this over to pump shotguns?

A secondary concern is short stroking at the worst possible moment, which I have discussed here before, but I think I've put that behind me. Generally when I've encountered this, it's been with pump shotguns with stocks far too long for me (I'm 5'8", but used to short stocks like on AKs). I have confidence that with the Vang Comp Standard's shorter 13" LOP stock combined with good instruction and practice, I should be able to get good enough to where this isn't a life-threatening concern should the gravest extreme come to pass.

Thanks.

Shotguns are not pistols. I'd take a zero off those round counts, particularly with regard to Buck or slugs. The .38 vs .357 analogy is accurate regarding the effect on the gun of duty loads vs target loads.

I've been shooting pump shotguns since age 10 and have a quarter century using and teaching with pump shotguns in LE. That said, my choice of a defensive shotgun is a Beretta or Benelli auto, preferably with an optic. If Rob Haught can occasionally short stroke a shotgun I sure as hell can.

PS: You mentioned Flight Control. Flight Control has it place, such as outdoors or LE duty use, but for close quarters such as home defense it defeats the purpose and will perform like a slug at room distances. Even more so though a Vang barrel.

[SwampDweller]

Shotguns are not pistols. I'd take a zero off those round counts, particularly with regard to Buck or slugs. The .38 vs .357 analogy is accurate regarding the effect on the gun of duty loads vs target loads.

I've been shooting pump shotguns since age 10 and have a quarter century using and teaching with pump shotguns in LE. That said, my choice of a defensive shotgun is a Beretta or Benelli auto, preferably with an optic. If Rob Haught can occasionally short stroke a shotgun I sure as hell can.

PS: You mentioned Flight Control. Flight Control has it place, such as outdoors or LE duty use, but for close quarters such as home defense it defeats the purpose and will perform like a slug at room distances. Even more so though a Vang barrel.

That does bring up a concern of mine that is the reason I’ve put off buying this shotgun until now (short stroking). This may seem like a silly question, but it is completely serious. When taking the possibility of short stroking into account, do you consider pump shotguns reliable enough to count on for defense? What is Rob’s stance on that? Curious as to @TVinVA ‘s thoughts too.

[TCinVA]

https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114028&d=1705456059

From another post:


This is probably a decent sized adult male. The LOP of this setup...which is adjustable...is entirely too long. (No cheek weld either, but nevermind that for now)

As a consequence, look at how little of him is actually behind the gun. The only part of his body that's really behind the gun is the ball and socket of his shoulder joint. With so little of oneself actually behind the gun, is it any wonder that the muzzle will end up being pointed at Jesus right after the trigger is pressed?

If we are shooting a rifle from a standing position and we're trying to use maximum bone support for long range accuracy, there are advantages to that longer LOP that allow us to basically stabilize the rifle by getting the bones of our arms supported by our hip and rib cage, usually with some assistance of a good sling stretched tight across our chest. You can gain a lot of stability this way, but it's not a position you are using to shoot rapidly. And given that we're talking about using a defensive shotgun within the confines of a typical residential structure and not a match at Camp Perry hunting bullseyes at 200 yards, we probably need a different setup.

Also note where dude's support hand lands on the forend of the shotgun with that hideous LOP. This is one of the primary reasons for short-stroking pump guns. With the forend so far out in front of them, people can't move it with the kind of power you need to reliably bully an ounce plus of shotgun shell into the chamber.

A good number of the problems people have with shotguns can be solved starting at the interface between their body and the gun...and if you're skilled enough you can just look at someone mount a shotgun and tell where their problems are going to be.
When I get someone behind a properly set up pump gun and I teach them how to properly run the action, short stroking becomes an exceptionally rare event...and usually one that only happens when they're trying to go as fast as they can't.

I can run around 1/4 second splits with a pump gun, but that's not what I'm teaching people to do in class. I want to get them shooting an aimed shot every 1/2 second. That's fast enough to mow through any threat they are ever going to face while still being a pace that ensures they can reliably run the action. And I teach them to run the action hard.

With fitment issues handled and proper instruction on the appropriate vigor for running a pump, short stroking vanishes.

I'm not worried about it.

I hang out with Rob fairly often. If he's worried about it, he hasn't told me yet.

[SwampDweller]

https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114028&d=1705456059

From another post:
When I get someone behind a properly set up pump gun and I teach them how to properly run the action, short stroking becomes an exceptionally rare event...and usually one that only happens when they're trying to go as fast as they can't.

I can run around 1/4 second splits with a pump gun, but that's not what I'm teaching people to do in class. I want to get them shooting an aimed shot every 1/2 second. That's fast enough to mow through any threat they are ever going to face while still being a pace that ensures they can reliably run the action. And I teach them to run the action hard.

With fitment issues handled and proper instruction on the appropriate vigor for running a pump, short stroking vanishes.

I'm not worried about it.

I hang out with Rob fairly often. If he's worried about it, he hasn't told me yet.

Excellent. You've recommended the Magpul stock with removeable panels before, I remember. The Vang Comp Standard I ordered does have a shorter 13" LOP stock than the norm, but do you think going shorter might be better? I'm 5'8". For reference, I run an AR stock on the second position, and I'm extremely used to and comfortable with Warsaw-length AK stocks. I keep long guns wedged up pretty tight and deep into my shoulder.

The vast majority of my experience with pump shotguns comes from duck and dove hunting since the age of 5 or 6. My first shotgun was an older Winchester 20ga Youth Model that was handed down to me. The shorter stock still fits me well to this day. With my Dad's 1980s Remington 870 Wingmaster, I have experienced one or two short strokes while dove hunting when I was shooting into a veritable cloud of doves as fast as I could (or more accurately, couldn't).

[HCM]

That does bring up a concern of mine that is the reason I’ve put off buying this shotgun until now (short stroking). This may seem like a silly question, but it is completely serious. When taking the possibility of short stroking into account, do you consider pump shotguns reliable enough to count on for defense? What is Rob’s stance on that? Curious as to @TVinVA ‘s thoughts too.

Mechanically? A 590 or an 870 police it’s fine.

If you were going to shoot a pump, action, shotgun, regularly, for hunting, Claybird games, etc. that will probably transfer over and be fine. If you’re someone who dry fires several times a week and you’re going to do dry practice with the shotgun and dummy rounds once or twice a month you’ll probably be fine.

If you’re going to be like the people, I saw at work who shoot 25 rounds once a year… not so much.

I’ve noticed that even defensive /tactical shooters who shoot pistols and/or carbines regularly rarely shoot their shotguns.

Some of that is on the shooters, and some of that is the fact that many ranges which allow pistol / carbine training restrict or prohibit shotguns due to the toll they take on targets /target stands / range equipment etc.

Personally, even though the manual of arms is different, I find there is a certain consistency going from semi pistols and carbines with red dots to a semi shotgun with a red dot.

If for some reason, I couldn’t use semi shotgun I would still want a red dot on my pump shotgun. Especially if going to the trouble of getting a Vang pump gun. IME direct mounts for red dots are > mounting on a 1913 rail. Especially if there is a huge ghost ring sight housing blocking much of the optic.

Regardless of platform I’m also a big fan of the Magpul shotgun stock.

[SwampDweller]

Mechanically? A 590 or an 870 police it’s fine.

If you were going to shoot a pump, action, shotgun, regularly, for hunting, Claybird games, etc. that will probably transfer over and be fine. If you’re someone who dry fires several times a week and you’re going to do dry practice with the shotgun and dummy rounds once or twice a month you’ll probably be fine.

If you’re going to be like the people, I saw at work who shoot 25 rounds once a year… not so much.

I’ve noticed that even defensive /tactical shooters who shoot pistols and/or carbines regularly rarely shoot their shotguns.

Some of that is on the shooters, and some of that is the fact that many ranges which allow pistol / carbine training restrict or prohibit shotguns due to the toll they take on targets /target stands / range equipment etc.

Personally, even though the manual of arms is different, I find there is a certain consistency going from semi pistols and carbines with red dots to a semi shotgun with a red dot.

If for some reason, I couldn’t use semi shotgun I would still want a red dot on my pump shotgun. Especially if going to the trouble of getting a Vang pump gun. IME direct mounts for red dots are > mounting on a 1913 rail. Especially if there is a huge ghost ring sight housing blocking much of the optic.

Regardless of platform I’m also a big fan of the Magpul shotgun stock.

I do plan to regularly dry practice with it, every day at first for a while and then a few times a week after that to maintain familiarity. I'm going to need to get some 12ga dummies. As for shooting, considering Federal 12ga target loads are cheaper than 5.56/.223 for me, I hope to be shooting it a lot. I also want to stock buckshot for practice too, and I want to take at least one class once I familiarize myself with the shotgun well.

You mentioned Flight Control having negated advantages when it comes to home defense distances. What non-Flight Control loading would be appropriate?

The VangComp I ordered is ready to take their micro dot mount. I would like to get an Aimpoint T1 or T2 for it at some point soon.

[TCinVA]

Excellent. You've recommended the Magpul stock with removeable panels before, I remember. The Vang Comp Standard I ordered does have a shorter 13" LOP stock than the norm, but do you think going shorter might be better? I'm 5'8". For reference,


Then 13" is too long.

I have a client that's 6'2 and regularly wears body armor. 13" is too long for him, too.

Get a Magpul stock on it and put a Kick-eez slim buttpad on the Magpul stock.

[HCM]

I do plan to regularly dry practice with it, every day at first for a while and then a few times a week after that to maintain familiarity. I'm going to need to get some 12ga dummies. As for shooting, considering Federal 12ga target loads are cheaper than 5.56/.223 for me, I hope to be shooting it a lot. I also want to stock buckshot for practice too, and I want to take at least one class once I familiarize myself with the shotgun well.

You mentioned Flight Control having negated advantages when it comes to home defense distances. What non-Flight Control loading would be appropriate?

The VangComp I ordered is ready to take their micro dot mount. I would like to get an Aimpoint T1 or T2 for it at some point soon.

SIG Romeo5, primary arms and Holosun etc are fine.. I would take one of those now over a “someday” Aimpoint. Preferably something with buttons for brightness adjustment instead of a rotary dial. The dial is usually what fails when AP micros are mounted on pistols.

Standard Remington / Winchester / federal 00. Which ever one patterns better in your gun. Shotgun barrels are kind of “special snowflakes” and like what they like.

[gato naranja]

.You've recommended the Magpul stock with removeable panels before, I remember. The Vang Comp Standard I ordered does have a shorter 13" LOP stock than the norm, but do you think going shorter might be better?

It can be very handy to have that extra 1/2" reduction which the Mossy Magpul stock offers if you do end up needing it. It is definitely a more "modular" bit of kit.

The Magpul SGA stock has proven so much better for me than any other reduced LOP 870 stock I have used that I am shamefaced when admitting that I put the purchase off so long. It was a relief to finally find a solution that stopped my years of trying this and that WRT defensive shotgun stocks. The stock in FDE put me over the line to reach my happy place with this corn sheller, and it was about time.

114103

[SwampDweller]

Then 13" is too long.

I have a client that's 6'2 and regularly wears body armor. 13" is too long for him, too.

Get a Magpul stock on it and put a Kick-eez slim buttpad on the Magpul stock.

I'll put an order in for the Magpul stock, then. Is the Kick-eez slim the one that slips over the back or actually screws in?

[TCinVA]

It screws in, replacing the magpul butt pad.

[gato naranja]

I'll put an order in for the Magpul stock, then. Is the Kick-eez slim the one that slips over the back or actually screws in?

I needed to get the Magpul Hunter/SGA® OEM Butt-Pad Adapter to mount the buttpad I originally chose to use, which I believe is a Limbsaver. I still have not installed it all, which I really need to do one of these days.

[SwampDweller]

It screws in, replacing the magpul butt pad.

https://kickeezproducts.com/collections/pre-fit-shotgun-recoil-pads/products/kick-eez-magpul-sga-hunter-stock-recoil-pad-1

Is this the correct one? Or is there one slimmer?

[GearFondler]

https://kickeezproducts.com/collections/pre-fit-shotgun-recoil-pads/products/kick-eez-magpul-sga-hunter-stock-recoil-pad-1

Is this the correct one? Or is there one slimmer?This one...

https://kickeezproducts.com/fighting-kick-eez-magpul-sga-hunter-stock-recoil-pad/

[SwampDweller]

This one...

https://kickeezproducts.com/fighting-kick-eez-magpul-sga-hunter-stock-recoil-pad/

Thank you!

[LHS]

That does bring up a concern of mine that is the reason I’ve put off buying this shotgun until now (short stroking). This may seem like a silly question, but it is completely serious. When taking the possibility of short stroking into account, do you consider pump shotguns reliable enough to count on for defense? What is Rob’s stance on that? Curious as to @TVinVA ‘s thoughts too.

For my entire life, Dad's primary home defense long gun has been an 870 of some flavor.

[SwampDweller]

For my entire life, Dad's primary home defense long gun has been an 870 of some flavor.

Well that tells me everything I need to know there, then. Thank ya.

[SwampDweller]

Not strictly related to this thread, but I'm looking at ordering a Police Surplus Remington 870 Police Magnum from Castle Arms. If I were to get this, I'd want to send it off somewhere for a complete lookover and refurbishment. Replacing springs and parts that need to be replaced, preventative replacement parts, refinishing, etc. Anyone have any recommendations for a place that does that? I remember a guy being linked here once, but I can't remember what his company was called. I want to say he was in Mississippi or Alabama?

Or maybe Vang Comp would do it if I sent it in for the 870 upgrade service?

My 590A1 Vang Comp Standard hasn't shipped yet, but they say it can take 7-10 business days or so on their website, so I'm not worried about it. These surplus 870s seem cool though, and it'd be nice to have one that's good to go seeing as I grew up with 870s.

[DDTSGM]

Not strictly related to this thread, but I'm looking at ordering a Police Surplus Remington 870 Police Magnum from Castle Arms. If I were to get this, I'd want to send it off somewhere for a complete lookover and refurbishment. Replacing springs and parts that need to be replaced, preventative replacement parts, refinishing, etc. Anyone have any recommendations for a place that does that? I remember a guy being linked here once, but I can't remember what his company was called. I want to say he was in Mississippi or Alabama?

Or maybe Vang Comp would do it if I sent it in for the 870 upgrade service?

My 590A1 Vang Comp Standard hasn't shipped yet, but they say it can take 7-10 business days or so on their website, so I'm not worried about it. These surplus 870s seem cool though, and it'd be nice to have one that's good to go seeing as I grew up with 870s.

Roll down the page to find info on the Remington Steal package: https://wilsoncombat.com/wc-shotgun-custom

[SwampDweller]

Roll down the page to find info on the Remington Steal package: https://wilsoncombat.com/wc-shotgun-custom

Nice. Thanks. I just ordered one of these: https://thecastlearms.com/product-details?id=299856178#product_detail

On sale for $329 before shipping/tax

[SwampDweller]

I found the thread where a service was recommended for restoring 870s that I was trying to remember earlier: Cottonbranch Custom. Wilson Combat charges $230 for their 870 restoration service. I wonder what Cottonbranch charges and how the work compares.

[TCinVA]

I found the thread where a service was recommended for restoring 870s that I was trying to remember earlier: Cottonbranch Custom. Wilson Combat charges $230 for their 870 restoration service. I wonder what Cottonbranch charges and how the work compares.

Cotton Branch does outstanding work.

The Wilson steal package in its most basic form isn't bad, but if I'm going to send a gun in I'm going to have it refinished. If it's a work gun I want cerakote or equivalent on a working gun. Cerakote properly done wears extremely well on shotguns. Wilson's Armor Tuff is also a really nice finish that holds up extremely well.

Check the turnaround time for both and that might help you make the decision.

[SwampDweller]

Cotton Branch does outstanding work.

The Wilson steal package in its most basic form isn't bad, but if I'm going to send a gun in I'm going to have it refinished. If it's a work gun I want cerakote or equivalent on a working gun. Cerakote properly done wears extremely well on shotguns. Wilson's Armor Tuff is also a really nice finish that holds up extremely well.

Check the turnaround time for both and that might help you make the decision.

Just emailed Cotton Branch asking. Also, I thought the Wilson Steal Package included parkerization?

[TCinVA]

It does, but I prefer the other finishes for slickness, corrosion resistance, and durability.

[SwampDweller]

It does, but I prefer the other finishes for slickness, corrosion resistance, and durability.

It looks like the Steal package with the Armor Tuff finish is just a little bit more. I emailed both Wilson and Cotton Branch to see about a roughly estimated turnaround time. I’ll probably send it to whoever is quickest, but I really like the look of Cotton Branch’s work.

As far as replacing small parts, I wonder what both are using. I’ve had nothing but problems with modern Remingtons and their small parts like MIM extractors (albeit I’ve not had anything since Remington was bought out and started production again).

The VangComp 590A1 hasn’t shipped yet. I was under the impression In Stock meant ready to go, but they might be working on one. I’m not really in a rush either way. I’ll have this 870PM to occupy me in the meantime.

[03RN]

That's a great price on the 870

[gato naranja]

Most of the stress of running a pump gun comes from the user moreso than the ammunition. Shotgun shells are potent but relatively low pressure. They tend to shake things loose and then once those things are loose, it tends to tear them up. Sights, optic mounts, etc. On the 870 the magazine cap will loosen on you during shooting and then every time you fire a shot the barrel is literally trying to leave the gun. Then you run the action and slam the barrel into the nose of the ejector over an over and over again and that's how you break ejectors.

Make sure you use Loctite or VC3 on anything fastened to the gun because it will shake loose in short order if you don't.

One of the things I found inadvertently was that if I did my due diligence, the factory 870 magazine extension clamp did cut down on magazine caps loosening up. I had people tell me that there was no way it could help, I was nuts, etc. But in my experience, that has been the case.

(I also was told a lot of crap about how to install the factory extension as well. I had to send a receiver back to Ilion because one supposed expert insisted that HE demonstrate the "right way" on one of my 870s. There may well be more than one "right way," but his wsan't one of them.)

And I heartily endorse the advice that anything not secured well is going to come loose on a 12 gauge shotgun. Weaponlights. sling mounts, sidesaddles... "mistakes, I've made a few..."

[SwampDweller]

Cotton Branch does outstanding work.

The Wilson steal package in its most basic form isn't bad, but if I'm going to send a gun in I'm going to have it refinished. If it's a work gun I want cerakote or equivalent on a working gun. Cerakote properly done wears extremely well on shotguns. Wilson's Armor Tuff is also a really nice finish that holds up extremely well.

Check the turnaround time for both and that might help you make the decision.

I received a reply from Josh at Cotton Branch. Unfortunately he said he is out of business for the moment because he is building a new shop. He said he should be accepting work early this summer. I could either wait, or just send it to Wilson Combat for their steal package + armor tuff refinishing (the 870 PM)

[DDTSGM]

(I also was told a lot of crap about how to install the factory extension as well. I had to send a receiver back to Ilion because one supposed expert insisted that HE demonstrate the "right way" on one of my 870s. There may well be more than one "right way," but his wsan't one of them.)


As I understood it, the reason there is an assembly order is because the magazine extension coupler is threaded all the way through:

https://i0.wp.com/oldarmsofidaho.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Remington-Model-870-Magazine-Extension-Tube-Coupling-rotated.jpg?fit=416%2C416&ssl=1

If you screw the extension into the coupler and then install that assembly onto the end of the magazine tube there is a chance that the coupler (end cap) won't be able to full seat because the extension has been over-inserted.

So the proper assembly is: Coupler snug and tight on the shotgun then the magazine tube extension.

[gato naranja]

As I understood it, the reason there is an assembly order is because the magazine extension coupler is threaded all the way through:

https://i0.wp.com/oldarmsofidaho.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Remington-Model-870-Magazine-Extension-Tube-Coupling-rotated.jpg?fit=416%2C416&ssl=1

If you screw the extension into the coupler and then install that assembly onto the end of the magazine tube there is a chance that the coupler (end cap) won't be able to full seat because the extension has been over-inserted.

So the proper assembly is: Coupler snug and tight on the shotgun then the magazine tube extension.

Yep. When you tighten the extension tube into the extension coupler with vigor, and then crank the result onto the magazine tube brazed to the receiver, things can get ugly.

There are about half a dozen memorable moments in my life where someone took it upon themselves to disassemble or reassemble one of my guns before I could grab it out of their hands or otherwise object. That was one of them. Doing that is a good way to be remembered for all time not by a name but by an honorific something along the lines of "that (expletive) who (damage description) my (gun description)"; e.g: "The dumb-ass who banged on the receiver while using a steel punch on the front pin of that Rock River National Match."

[Shawn Dodson]

Three full magazines of defense ammo with zero stoppages.

If there's a problem between gun and ammo it'll reveal itself.

In addition to that, prior to function testing with defense ammo, run a couple hundred cheap shotshell loads though it to exercise it.

[SwampDweller]

Finally got my Vang Comp Standard 590A1. It seems great. I’m going to take it out shooting this weekend even if it’s raining. I have 200 rounds of Federal Top Gun birdshot and am going to take 70 rounds of Federal 00 Buckshot to shoot through it as well to vet it.

TCinVA any tips on lubricating it before I take it out to vet, or other tips? Is 200rds of birdshot and 70 Buckshot too much for one range session to put the gun through?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]114873[/ATTACH

I did install the SGA stock and Kick EEZ buttpad to get it as short as possible. It feels amazing! I’ve never had a shotgun fit me this well before. Only thing that comes close is my childhood Winchester 20 gauge Youth Model!

[TCinVA]

@TCinVA (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=4) any tips on lubricating it before I take it out to vet, or other tips? Is 200rds of birdshot and 70 Buckshot too much for one range session to put the gun through?


No, it'll handle that much ammo just fine assuming the gun is in proper working order and you can handle it.

Lubricate the locking surfaces within the bolt and the receiver, the action bars, the areas in the receiver where the action bars and lifter moves around. You don't need gobs, just a little on those areas and anywhere else that's shiny or that gets shiny as the gun is used.

[SwampDweller]

No, it'll handle that much ammo just fine assuming the gun is in proper working order and you can handle it.

Lubricate the locking surfaces within the bolt and the receiver, the action bars, the areas in the receiver where the action bars and lifter moves around. You don't need gobs, just a little on those areas and anywhere else that's shiny or that gets shiny as the gun is used.

Thanks. I figure with 200 rounds of birdshot and 70 of Buckshot should be enough vetting to prove it reliable for defense duty, right? I gathered that from your first reply. It may be overboard but I just want to make sure I can count on it. I have had bad luck lately.

[SwampDweller]

I'm having a hard time unscrewing the magazine end cap, it's on pretty tight. Doesn't help that I cut my finger pretty bad and it's making it hard to twist things.

[DDTSGM]

Let it drop onto the recoil pad in order to seat the barrel (even after it's been shot) then twist.

If you still can't get it loose a cheap strap wrench - if it will fit. Last choice - pad a set of channel locks and use them.

[SwampDweller]

Let it drop onto the recoil pad in order to seat the barrel (even after it's been shot) then twist.

If you still can't get it loose a cheap strap wrench - if it will fit. Last choice - pad a set of channel locks and use them.

Dropped it onto the recoil pad a few times. Still can't get the cap to come loose. I'll see if I can get help with it at work tomorrow. Unfortunately I don't have a strap wrench or channel locks.

[TCinVA]

Thanks. I figure with 200 rounds of birdshot and 70 of Buckshot should be enough vetting to prove it reliable for defense duty, right?

If it runs through that without problem and you aren't stuffing something wildly different into it for defense, you should be fine.

[BobM]

Dropped it onto the recoil pad a few times. Still can't get the cap to come loose. I'll see if I can get help with it at work tomorrow. Unfortunately I don't have a strap wrench or channel locks.

https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/gun-tools/shotgun-tools/magazine-tubecap-pliers/

I had these at the PD. After I retired, I got a set for myself

[TCinVA]

https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/gun-tools/shotgun-tools/magazine-tubecap-pliers/

I had these at the PD. After I retired, I got a set for myself

Highly recommended.

[gato naranja]

https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/gun-tools/shotgun-tools/magazine-tubecap-pliers/

I had these at the PD. After I retired, I got a set for myself

Those look a lot like the "cannon plug pliers" the general aviation maintenance outfit at the local airport FBO used to have. They got used for a LOT of things other than "cannon" plugs.

[SwampDweller]

If it runs through that without problem and you aren't stuffing something wildly different into it for defense, you should be fine.

The Buckshot load I’m going to be shooting through it to vet it will be Federal 2 3/4” 00 Buck “Magnum” 12 pellet, while the defense ammo is going to be Hornady Critical Defense 00 buck 8 pellet. I am going to shoot at least a mag’s worth of the Hornady as well.

[SwampDweller]

I didn't realize till watching a random disassembly video: I have to remove the trigger group to take out the bolt and such? I always thought you just pushed the tabs and pulled it out. In my lubrication process for the range, should I both removing everything to do so?

[TCinVA]

No, just squirt some lubrication up there.

[SwampDweller]

At long last, I took the Vang Comp "Standard" 590A1 to the range. I shot a total of 315 rounds. 225 rounds were Federal Top Gun #7.5 Shot, 90 rounds were 00 Buckshot (mostly Federal 12 pellet, and 7 rounds of Hornady Critical Defense 8 pellet).

Function was flawless, as expected, and I'm satisfied with how it patterns. Overall I couldn't be happier with the performance, but my shoulder isn't going to be happy in the morning!

Based on the info given by you all, I will now consider the gun successfully and fully vetted for defensive duty, and it will become my home defense gun tonight after I clean it. Speaking of which, should I now take the trigger group out to remove the bolt/etc to clean it? Thank you especially to TCinVA for your expertise. I hope to be able to take a shotgun class from you soon.

I never short stroked it, which was nice. The shorter stock (SGA w/ no spacers and KickEEZ combat pad) really helps a lot. With most pumps I have to reach my arm much farther out. Also, I feel like the 590 is harder to short stroke compared to the Remington 870. I'm not sure why. The pump requires more deliberate action to move it, so maybe it just helps me to avoid short stroking it.

[SwampDweller]

114994

Also noticed a little wear in the top of the receiver. The round one I can feel in the metal a little bit. Is some wearing normal beyond just finish rubbing off?

[SwampDweller]

I checked out a couple of 590’s/500’s at work today. Even though they’re new I can see where from dry cycling it, a circular wear spot is forming on some of them, so that tells me it’s normal like on this Maverick.

115045

[gato naranja]

I checked out a couple of 590’s/500’s at work today. Even though they’re new I can see where from dry cycling it, a circular wear spot is forming on some of them, so that tells me it’s normal like on this Maverick


I think - sort of a SWAG because I don't have one handy - that may be where a corner on the locking block sort of reaches a limit of upward travel during the operating cycle.

[AmericanIcon]

Nice. Thanks. I just ordered one of these: https://thecastlearms.com/product-details?id=299856178#product_detail

On sale for $329 before shipping/tax

So it looks like this one made it to you? I wanted to get one of these as well but I wanted to check if you had gotten scammed out of $330 or not!

[SwampDweller]

So it looks like this one made it to you? I wanted to get one of these as well but I wanted to check if you had gotten scammed out of $330 or not!

It was pretty well within what I expected. Definitely been beat around and has a worn finish, but it's not broken or anything. Only thing I think it probably needs is a new mag spring and new shell stops, because if you baby the action open as slowly as possible it may or may not pop the next shell out of the mag. I wouldn't say it's a scam. If it was straight up broken, I'd say it was a scam, but it's functioning.

I plan to send it off to Wilson Combat for their Remington Steal package, to bring it back to new condition.

[SwampDweller]

I shot 149 more rounds through the 590A1 today, about half buckshot, half birdshot. I don't think the wear spot has really grown. I kept checking it as I was putting more rounds through it and I couldn't tell any additional wear as I kept going, or at least not enough to notice.

I took a picture of it right now while I'm cleaning it, from a bit of a different angle. Thoughts?
115238

[L-2]

Post 65,
https://storage.googleapis.com/wilsoncombat/custom_work/wc_shotgun_custom_work.pdf

From what i've read, Wilson-Combat only performs its "Remington Steal" package on Remington 870s, not Mossberg 590/590A1s, but do go ahead and call WC.

[SwampDweller]

Post 65,
https://storage.googleapis.com/wilsoncombat/custom_work/wc_shotgun_custom_work.pdf

From what i've read, Wilson-Combat only performs its "Remington Steal" package on Remington 870s, not Mossberg 590/590A1s, but do go ahead and call WC.

Yes, I was talking about the surplus 870 Police Magnum from earlier in this thread

[SwampDweller]

For the life of me, I cannot pull the trigger group out of the 590A1 after tapping the pin out. Is it possible the Magpul stock is holding it by the rear? It doesn't look like it, it looks like it clears it. I took the barrel off, then tapped the pin above the serial number out. No matter how hard I tug, it won't budge. Am I missing something? I was using a Brownells 500 takedown video as reference.

[Dave J]

For the life of me, I cannot pull the trigger group out of the 590A1 after tapping the pin out. Is it possible the Magpul stock is holding it by the rear? It doesn't look like it, it looks like it clears it. I took the barrel off, then tapped the pin above the serial number out. No matter how hard I tug, it won't budge. Am I missing something? I was using a Brownells 500 takedown video as reference.

I experienced the same on my 590 after I installed the Magpul stock. You may need to loosen the stock bolt a couple of turns to get the trigger group to clear.

Withe the trigger group out of the way, you cut a small chamfer on the stock to allow clearance for the trigger group to hinge down with the stock in place.

[Dave J]

Quick photo. IIRC, I didn’t need to remove much material to enable trigger group removal.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240218/2d4449473bc50deec8db16022e3ab1ad.jpg

[SwampDweller]

What did you use to chamfer it?
That screw to loosen the stock is a pain to deal with since I don’t have an angled screwdriver. I have to use the Allen key and do like quarter turns over and over.