Hellcat RDP

[Hstanton1]

Anyone have experience with one of these, now that it’s been on the market for a while? I’ve been dabbling in small carry guns recently, and have found the p365xl (even with WC grip) to be a bit too small, and to give me a bit too much slide bite. The g48 is a little large (really just the corner of the mag) and my example hasn’t been reliable enough to really inspire confidence.

The RDP interests me because it’s a small factory comped optics ready gun, that doesn’t seem to give me slide bite the way other guns do. It’s a gun I had initially discounted because well, Springfield Armory, but Mike Pannone picked one up as part of his recent deep dive into micro compacts, and that’s what really got me interested.

[Hootie]

I have a Hellcat RDP. It's been 100% reliable, and accurate for what it is. I owned a regular Hellcat before that and found the recoil to be pretty aggressive compared to others of similar size. I hoped the Hellcat RDP would be noticeably softer in recoil. Honestly, I've been pretty underwhelmed by the RDP. Shooting the regular Hellcat and the RDP side by side, the difference in recoil was barely noticeable. But the length of the comp in an IWB holster was considerably noticeable, and IMO not worth the minimum difference in recoil. Also the comp (or even threaded barrel without the comp) made pocket carry impossible.

I still have my RDP, but I don't carry it or use it. I stick with my Glock 43 and 43X for carry. I know their capacity is sad, but they shoot great for me and are comfortable to carry.

[Polecat]

I am interested where this goes. I too am considering one. I rented a Hellcat the other day a d really liked the base model. Just enough grip girth for better control, not as “snappy” as my 43x. I think I am gonna do the switcheroo.

[Hstanton1]

I am interested where this goes. I too am considering one. I rented a Hellcat the other day a d really liked the base model. Just enough grip girth for better control, not as “snappy” as my 43x. I think I am gonna do the switcheroo.

I’ll probably be trying to sell my g48 to get into one pretty soon. All that I’ve heard of the RDP model is pretty positive, but there doesn’t seem to be that much out there from sources I’d consider truly reputable. The footprint is pretty appealing too, a short grip and a 4 inch barrel is a good combo for concealment.

[DLWinner]

I’ve shot the standard Hellcat and the RDP. I honestly didn’t care for either one. I just didn’t shoot them as well as I do other guns. They do look and feel good.
If you must have a smaller gun, check out the Sig X-Macro.

[Hstanton1]

I’ve shot the standard Hellcat and the RDP. I honestly didn’t care for either one. I just didn’t shoot them as well as I do other guns. They do look and feel good.
If you must have a smaller gun, check out the Sig X-Macro.

The XMacro isn’t exactly small though. It’s taller than a g19 is, and still has the protruding base pad that causes printing issues for me on glocks.

[DLWinner]

The XMacro isn’t exactly small though. It’s taller than a g19 is, and still has the protruding base pad that causes printing issues for me on glocks.

Makes sense. I have one, but I’ve never carried it. Have you tried the M&P Shield plus? Somewhat bigger grip.

[G19Fan]

The XMacro isn’t exactly small though. It’s taller than a g19 is, and still has the protruding base pad that causes printing issues for me on glocks.

Chop an x Maceo grip to xl length

[Hstanton1]

Makes sense. I have one, but I’ve never carried it. Have you tried the M&P Shield plus? Somewhat bigger grip.

I’ve thought a fair amount about the shield plus actually. It looks like another great option that fits well within the size range I’m looking at. I don’t really have a preference between it and the hellcat RDP, but I’m interested in the factory comp that the RDP comes with. For me, guns in this size range are where carry comps make the most sense if well executed.

[G19Fan]

I’ve thought a fair amount about the shield plus actually. It looks like another great option that fits well within the size range I’m looking at. I don’t really have a preference between it and the hellcat RDP, but I’m interested in the factory comp that the RDP comes with. For me, guns in this size range are where carry comps make the most sense if well executed.

A shield.plus shoots close to a glock 26 imo

Personally not really a fan of compensator on a self defense gun

[DLWinner]

Chop an x Maceo grip to xl length

This. Or wrap an XL frame with hockey/goon tape to get the desired thickness? 🤷

[TOTS]

Does anyone have a Hellcat Pro 15 rnd mag to compare with the Sig Macro mags?

[Hstanton1]

A shield.plus shoots close to a glock 26 imo

Personally not really a fan of compensator on a self defense gun

I’m ambivalent about comps on g19 sized guns, but I think they’ve been around long enough to show that they can provide benefit while being reliable, if done correctly. What I’m most curious about here is whether or not the RDP comp is done correctly. Pannone has had good luck with his, but that’s one guy and two samples.

A 4 inch shield plus is a very compelling option though.

[Noidslo]

I picked it up used from a friend at a ridiculously low price. I wanted a pistol a bit smaller than my G19 Gen4 to carry. I've only got about 600 rounds through it so far in the vetting process. It's also my first time using a pistol optic. It's got the Wasp red dot installed from the factory.

For the Pistol Forum crowd I'm still considered a novice shooter so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

My experience so far:
- It's been 100% reliable.
- These little guns are snappier than the compacts like the 19.
- It appears that it shoots flatter when I run it with the comp installed. This has been my subjective opinion and the opinion of a couple of others who shot it.
- When I do my part, it's way more accurate than expected.
- I installed a Hogue Beavertail slip on grip to add a bit of a palm swell to the grip and make it more comfortable to shoot without adding much bulk. I like it.
- I like it way more than I thought I would. I'll probably keep it and continue to vet it and learn to shoot it better. I think it has the potential to become my edc.

[HCM]

Chop an x Maceo grip to xl length

Why do this when you can just swap grips ?

It’s literally a modular gun

Plus the way the back straps secure to the grip (with a pin near the bottom of the grip) makes it problematic.

113550

Plus, as noted below the standard X-Macro has accuracy issues attributable to the integral comp.

Or just buy an XL.

[HCM]

I’ve shot the standard Hellcat and the RDP. I honestly didn’t care for either one. I just didn’t shoot them as well as I do other guns. They do look and feel good.
If you must have a smaller gun, check out the Sig X-Macro.

As much as I love the 365 series, the standard Macro’s with the porting have accuracy issues. GJM and others here have experienced the same.

The tac ops version without the porting and P365 XL’s with grip swaps to the macro grip, do not exhibit the same issues.

Plus, until the Echelon came out, the Hellcat was probably the best polymer gun S.A. offered.

[DLWinner]

As much as I love the 365 series, the standard Macro’s with the porting have accuracy issues. GJM and others here have experienced the same.

The tac ops version without the porting and P365 XL’s with grip swaps to the macro grip, do not exhibit the same issues.

Plus, until the Echelon came out, the Hellcat was probably the best polymer gun S.A. offered.

Weird. I have never heard about these accuracy issues. I’ve only fired 100 rounds through mine. No issues and I actually shot it pretty well. I guess I will have to shoot it some more.

[TOTS]

Why do this when you can just swap grips ?

It’s literally a modular gun

Plus the way the back straps secure to the grip (with a pin near the bottom of the grip) makes it problematic.

113550

Plus, as noted below the standard X-Macro has accuracy issues attributable to the integral comp.

Or just buy an XL.
understand your point; I chose to get another module as well. That said, when you use a 12 rnd XL mag to grip chop a Macro down to XL length, the cut line is below the pin so the only difficulty is that you have to cut the back strap too.

[GJM]

A Macro lower/XL slide upper, is a great shooting pistol that shoots like a G19, but conceals easier than a 19 for me, because of how thin it is. I think this combo is far and away the best Sig polymer pistol.

[HCM]

Weird. I have never heard about these accuracy issues. I’ve only fired 100 rounds through mine. No issues and I actually shot it pretty well. I guess I will have to shoot it some more.

I’ve seen the same issue in three of them, including the one I used to own. There would be two distinct groups a few inches apart, sometimes with a single flyer.

It’s been discussed here on PF and GJM and others have seen the same issues.

Like the Gen 1 M&P 9mm it starts to be very noticeable at about 15 yards.

[GJM]

I’ve seen the same issue in three of them, including the one I used to own. There would be two distinct groups a few inches apart, sometimes with a single flyer.

It’s been discussed here on PF and GJM and others have seen the same issues.

Like the Gen 1 M&P 9mm it starts to be very noticeable at about 15 yards.

From memory, my wife and I first noticed it on a Spectre Comp, shooting at 35 yards, a few summers ago. At first we thought it might be the optic, but confirmed it was the upper after some switching and retesting. Later, we saw it in the Macro uppers with the porting. Sent a slide to YVK and he confirmed it as well. Most people wouldn't notice it, unless they are shooting ball ammo for groups at 25 yards and beyond. The issue seems less pronounced with loads like Gold Dot. Easy fix, run the XL upper which has the same overall length as the ported upper.

There was a thread where we discussed all this.

[GJM]

Here is the thread:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?54848-365-Macro-accuracy-problem

[HCM]

From memory, my wife and I first noticed it on a Spectre Comp, shooting at 35 yards, a few summers ago. At first we thought it might be the optic, but confirmed it was the upper after some switching and retesting. Later, we saw it in the Macro uppers with the porting. Sent a slide to YVK and he confirmed it as well. Most people wouldn't notice it, unless they are shooting ball ammo for groups at 25 yards and beyond. The issue seems less pronounced with loads like Gold Dot. Easy fix, run the XL upper which has the same overall length as the ported upper.

There was a thread where we discussed all this.

I had two other known competent shooters. Confirm the issue with my gun. The same two also confirmed the same issue on a third party’s X Macro who claimed his was “fine.” It’s just that he could barely shoot well enough to keep all his rounds on a C zone steel at 15 Yards so he couldn’t tell the difference.

[GJM]

I had two other known competent shooters. Confirm the issue with my gun. The same two also confirmed the same issue on a third party’s X Macro who claimed his was “fine.” It’s just that he could barely shoot well enough to keep all his rounds on a C zone steel at 15 Yards so he couldn’t tell the difference.

I think why the accuracy problem jumped out for my wife and I is the OEM 3.1 and 3.7 barrels shoot exceptionally well for small pistols.

[Hstanton1]

For a small (read: micro compact), comped gun… is the RDP the best option going right now? There seem to be reliability issues with PMM comped 365s, accuracy issues with xmacros, and the only other similar option around seems to be the ported shields from the PC. Ports interest me less than comps, just because of jacket shaving issues.

[DLWinner]

I had two other known competent shooters. Confirm the issue with my gun. The same two also confirmed the same issue on a third party’s X Macro who claimed his was “fine.” It’s just that he could barely shoot well enough to keep all his rounds on a C zone steel at 15 Yards so he couldn’t tell the difference.

This is very interesting. Now I’m going to have to do some testing with mine.

[GJM]

For a small (read: micro compact), comped gun… is the RDP the best option going right now? There seem to be reliability issues with PMM comped 365s, accuracy issues with xmacros, and the only other similar option around seems to be the ported shields from the PC. Ports interest me less than comps, just because of jacket shaving issues.

This is what you are facing.

- small guns with short slides tend to be less reliable

- comps tend to be less reliable than non comp'd pistols

- Springfield Armory small pistols tend to get less high volume use than the 365 and 43X family.

My question is why a comp? Could be fine but you will be the test pilot to let us know.

[Hstanton1]

This is what you are facing.

- small guns with short slides tend to be less reliable

- comps tend to be less reliable than non comp'd pistols

- Springfield Armory small pistols tend to get less high volume use than the 365 and 43X family.

My question is why a comp? Could be fine but you will be the test pilot to let us know.

I completely agree. That’s why watching Pannone’s testing has been so interesting, his examples have run flawlessly thus far.

As to why a comp, really just because it’s an interesting concept that provides benefit when it works reliably. Reliability aside, small guns are the place where comps make the most sense on carry guns, because they’re the ones that are hardest to shoot well.
I likely will pick one up to vet in the end, was just looking for feedback from better shooters than me in the meantime. If it doesn’t work out, I’ll probably go for a 4 inch shield plus.

[RAM Engineer]

A Macro lower/XL slide upper, is a great shooting pistol that shoots like a G19, but conceals easier than a 19 for me, because of how thin it is. I think this combo is far and away the best Sig polymer pistol.

Isn't a regular Macro slide the same length as an XL? Why combine an XL slide with a Macro Lower?

[G19Fan]

Isn't a regular Macro slide the same length as an XL? Why combine an XL slide with a Macro Lower?

Dump the comp. Get better velocity from longer barrel

[G19Fan]

I completely agree. That’s why watching Pannone’s testing has been so interesting, his examples have run flawlessly thus far.

As to why a comp, really just because it’s an interesting concept that provides benefit when it works reliably. Reliability aside, small guns are the place where comps make the most sense on carry guns, because they’re the ones that are hardest to shoot well.
I likely will pick one up to vet in the end, was just looking for feedback from better shooters than me in the meantime. If it doesn’t work out, I’ll probably go for a 4 inch shield plus.

I feel like the p365 and p365xl shoot very well with a wilson or chopped macro frame. Almost g19 (not quite)

[Hstanton1]

I feel like the p365 and p365xl shoot very well with a wilson or chopped macro frame. Almost g19 (not quite)

My biggest issue with the p365 series was the beaver tail honestly. Both on the stock frame and with the Wilson, these short guns on my body force the beaver tail into my torso in a much more uncomfortable way than larger guns, including B92s and 1911s. I’ve dremeled the beavertails down on both, and found that if they were small enough to carry comfortably, they tended to cut my hands up. The rear of the slide/frame on the slimline glocks don’t do that for whatever reason, and neither do the hellcat or shield plus.

This is a small gun quest that could very well end in a .22 LCR loaded with federal punch, but options are fun to explore.

[Hstanton1]

Isn't a regular Macro slide the same length as an XL? Why combine an XL slide with a Macro Lower?

Likely for the accuracy issues mentioned above.

[RAM Engineer]

Dump the comp. Get better velocity from longer barrel


Likely for the accuracy issues mentioned above.

There are not one, but TWO versions of the Macro that do not have a comp. So why replace a non-comped slide with a 365XL slide? Makes no sense to me.

[Hstanton1]

There are not one, but TWO versions of the Macro that do not have a comp. So why replace a non-comped slide with a 365XL slide? Makes no sense to me.

The accuracy issues are specific to the comped model, so if you have a TACOPS macro or the other non comped one that already has a 365xl slide on it, this is an issue that doesn’t apply to you.

[GJM]

There are not one, but TWO versions of the Macro that do not have a comp. So why replace a non-comped slide with a 365XL slide? Makes no sense to me.

I think we are all on the same page but using different language. When you said "same length," it was unclear that you were referring to the 3.7 length (no expansion chamber) and not the 3.1 plus expansion chamber that is about 3.7 in length. A 3.7 barrel and slide is obviously the same whether it comes on a model of the Macro or on an XL.

[RAM Engineer]

I think we are all on the same page but using different language. When you said "same length," it was unclear that you were referring to the 3.7 length (no expansion chamber) and not the 3.1 plus expansion chamber that is about 3.7 in length. A 3.7 barrel and slide is obviously the same whether it comes on a model of the Macro or on an XL.

I think SIG is probably to blame for the confusion. I know they currently refer to the comped version as "XMACRO COMP" and the non-comped is just "XMACRO", but I'm not sure that naming convention existed at the inception of the XMACRO guns.

[Noah]

I think SIG is probably to blame for the confusion. I know they currently refer to the comped version as "XMACRO COMP" and the non-comped is just "XMACRO", but I'm not sure that naming convention existed at the inception of the XMACRO guns.

It did not. The only Macro was the comped XMACRO.

The slide on the non comped XMACRO is the same as a 365XL slide.

[GJM]

Very confusing. My wife and I now define 365 pistols by their grip module and their upper. Macro now means just a grip module.

So a 365 pistol consisting of a Macro grip module and a non ported 3.7 slide and barrel becomes a "Macro/3.7 XL."

[Chuck Whitlock]

......and the only other similar option around seems to be the ported shields from the PC. Ports interest me less than comps, just because of jacket shaving issues.

Data point of one, but my co-worker has a PC 9mm Shield EZ. Where the port is located, the barrel is back bored slightly, like a mini-expansion chamber. So, the port does not touch the rifling.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/performance-center-m-p-9-shield-ez-black-ported-barrel-manual-thumb-safety

[G19Fan]

My biggest issue with the p365 series was the beaver tail honestly. Both on the stock frame and with the Wilson, these short guns on my body force the beaver tail into my torso in a much more uncomfortable way than larger guns, including B92s and 1911s. I’ve dremeled the beavertails down on both, and found that if they were small enough to carry comfortably, they tended to cut my hands up. The rear of the slide/frame on the slimline glocks don’t do that for whatever reason, and neither do the hellcat or shield plus.

This is a small gun quest that could very well end in a .22 LCR loaded with federal punch, but options are fun to explore.

I can see how this would be a problem on the p365

[HCM]

I think SIG is probably to blame for the confusion. I know they currently refer to the comped version as "XMACRO COMP" and the non-comped is just "XMACRO", but I'm not sure that naming convention existed at the inception of the XMACRO guns.

It did not.

What is know known as the X MACRO COMP was the original version of the X MACRO.

That was then followed by the “TAC OPS” (no comp).

It’s interesting that they have redesignated the original model with the comp and now have two separate non-com models.

A cynic would imply that might indicate they know there’s a problem with the comp guns.

[Hstanton1]

Data point of one, but my co-worker has a PC 9mm Shield EZ. Where the port is located, the barrel is back bored slightly, like a mini-expansion chamber. So, the port does not touch the rifling.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/performance-center-m-p-9-shield-ez-black-ported-barrel-manual-thumb-safety

That is certainly good to know!

[Hstanton1]

Finally got out to shoot a hellcat (not an RDP) next to my g48 and a shield plus.

I shot some 5x5 drills, some 5 yard roundups, and some half tests (5 rounds 5 seconds 10 yards) and found the shield plus to shoot on par with or slightly better than the g48, while the hellcat lagged significantly. The triggers are a wash, the shield trigger may actually be my least favorite, but it’s got enough front to back real estate in the grip for me to actually get a significant amount of my support hand on the gun, and enough of a backstrap to keep me from getting slide bite like I do on the g48. I’m still mildly intrigued by the RDP, but at the moment I’m thinking a shield plus is going to be the best answer for me.