Silencer causing an over-gas situation. Advice needed please.

[SC_Dave]

Banish 223 on AR Pistol

The over-gas is causing the BCG to cycle hard and fast resulting in an eject/feed issue. First time I have experienced this and would like some advice as to how to approach the fix.

The rifle has a H1 Buffer, if I install an H2, would the heavier buffer mitigate the issue?


Thanks in advance,
David

[TGS]

Banish 223 on AR15

The over-gas is causing the BCG to cycle hard and fast resulting in an eject/feed issue. First time I have experienced this and would like some advice as to how to approach the fix.

The rifle has a H1 Buffer, if I install an H2, would the heavier buffer mitigate the issue?


Thanks in advance,
David

Get a configurable ported gas tube from Black River Tactical. Choose the "BRT Will Select Size" option, and fill out the rest of the dropdowns. They'll match up a size to what you're trying to do (suppressed only, suppressed and unsuppressed, shitty ammo only, good ammo only, mix of shitty and good, etc).

https://blackrivertactical.com/WP/Adjustable-Gas-System-c6464009

[Wake27]

Get a configurable ported gas tube from Black River Tactical. Choose the "BRT Will Select Size" option, and fill out the rest of the dropdowns. They'll match up a size to what you're trying to do (suppressed only, suppressed and unsuppressed, shitty ammo only, good ammo only, mix of shitty and good, etc).

https://blackrivertactical.com/WP/Adjustable-Gas-System-c6464009

OP, this is widely regarded as your best semi permanent fix. The only thing better is replacing the barrel (or can...) but I assume you don't want to do that. What're the specs on the rifle? There's all kinds of factors that can come into play and you gave about the least amount of info possible.

[gringop]

Banish 223 on AR15

The over-gas is causing the BCG to cycle hard and fast resulting in an eject/feed issue. First time I have experienced this and would like some advice as to how to approach the fix.

The rifle has a H1 Buffer, if I install an H2, would the heavier buffer mitigate the issue?


Thanks in advance,
David

I ended up going with an H3 in the 2 rifles that I use the suppressor on, Gasbuster charging handles and RTV on the Gasbusters. I stayed with normal recoil springs. The H3 ended up allowing the guns to run reliably with and without the suppressor, you may need to test yours with H2 and H3 buffers.


Gringop

[SC_Dave]

OP, this is widely regarded as your best semi permanent fix. The only thing better is replacing the barrel (or can...) but I assume you don't want to do that. What're the specs on the rifle? There's all kinds of factors that can come into play and you gave about the least amount of info possible.

Silencer Central, Banish 223, Titanium, Direct Thread
PSA PA-15, 5.56, 1/7, 11.5
Let me know if you would need anymore info. Thanks

[Wake27]

Silencer Central, Banish 223, Titanium, Direct Thread
PSA PA-15, 5.56, 1/7, 11.5
Let me know if you would need anymore info. Thanks

That helps. 11.5 barrel means carbine length gas system and it being a PSA means its likely got a pretty large gas port already. What type of ammo do you shoot? Brass 5.56, steel .223, something else entirely?

[Default.mp3]

Given that it's a direct thread, the BRT gas tube is probably the best reasonable fix. Heavier buffers and springs can help mitigate the issue, especially if you switch to an A5 receiver extension system, but they can also cause shorter parts life, and are not as fine tuneable. Adjustable gas blocks and gas keys are also possible fixes, but are added complexity and an additional source of failure, with no real upside given that you're using a DT rather than a QD can.

[SC_Dave]

That helps. 11.5 barrel means carbine length gas system and it being a PSA means its likely got a pretty large gas port already. What type of ammo do you shoot? Brass 5.56, steel .223, something else entirely?

223 55 gr fmj 90% of the time.

Also the issue that is caused by the over gassing only causes a cycling issue say, 5 times out of 100 rounds so it's not every cycle. I still want to correct the issue but.......

[Colt191145lover]

BRT Gas tube, gas buster charging handle . I dont like going over a H2 buffer with Sprinco blue spring personally unless absolutely necessary . The BRT gas tube will fix the root of the problem , short of a new barrel .

[TGS]

Silencer Central, Banish 223, Titanium, Direct Thread
PSA PA-15, 5.56, 1/7, 11.5
Let me know if you would need anymore info. Thanks

It's wicked overgassed.

Per statements by PSA reps on ARFCOM, both their 10.5 and 11.5" barrels use a .076" gas port. For comparison, the Crane-spec for a 10.3" Mk18 barrel is .070", and specs from reputable companies like Colt and Geissele for 11.5" are usually in the .069" to .071" range.

If you try to mask the issue by using a stronger spring and heavier buffer, that means the gun is going to drive exponentially more gas into the piston of the BCG. It will then unlock at a much higher pressure. This will also result in an increased amount of gas being shot out the vent holes on the side of the BCG, since that gun will have to use more gas to unlock the bolt against the heavier buffer/buffer spring. Whatever gassiness you feel with it now will be even worse. In addition, your bolt will have a decreased service life and shear lugs quicker.

Or, $64 gets you a BRT Gas Tube as I mentioned in the first response. That gas tube will have a port, which vents excess gas before it reaches the BCG's piston. This basically accomplishes the same thing as having a properly sized gas port. I have three 10" guns, no 11.5" guns....but one of them is a PSA 10.5" with the .076" gas port. BRT gave me a .057 marked gas tube for it as I wanted to shoot it suppressed only, and it's very pleasant since it is now properly gassed.

At the point you're at now, your gun is teetering on functionality due to being so absurdly overgassed, which PSA does since the majority of their customer base is 1) not shooting suppressed, and 2) shoots garbage quality ammo (It ain't called Poverty State Armory for nothin'). If it was closer to the margins, I'd say sure...just grab an H2 buffer and call it a day. But your gun is so far out in left field, I'd really suggest doing it right and just swapping the gas tube to correct the issue.

[SC_Dave]

Thanks very much for the info!!
David

[MistWolf]

In addition to the AR being over gassed, the extractor spring needs to be replaced. Install a Colt or Sprinco extractor spring. Your feed & ejection issues are caused by the weak extractor spring letting the extractor lose its grip on the spent case.

[Super77]

How is the service life on those BRT gas tubes? Like, how many rounds do you get out of one? Does the gas port on the tube ger eroded at an appreciable rate?

[Ethang]

I have a PSA 11.5 that was functionally perfect, but way over gassed. I put a BRT tube on for 50/50 suppressed and it made a tremendous difference in shootability even without suppressing it.

[Default.mp3]

How is the service life on those BRT gas tubes? Like, how many rounds do you get out of one? Does the gas port on the tube ger eroded at an appreciable rate?IIRC, 5k rounds is the bare minimum, with 10k being their typical advertised lifespan. I assume there are a whole host of variables involved, such as the difference in the gas tube orifice and your gas port, how much extra backpressure is being generated, etc.

Would be pretty cool if they made them out of Inconel or something, for indefinite lifespan. That being said, remember that the gas tube is not taking the full brunt of the gas, the barrel's gas port is absorbing the majority of the initial force of the gas, and already a restricted amount of gas will then reach the gas tube's reduced orifice.

[SC_Dave]

I appreciate everyone's input on this. I'm about to order the parts from BRTY and once installed and tested I'll report back here for the benefit of others.
David

[rayrevolver]

I have a BRT coming today for a 12.5" carbine dedicated suppressed. The effective gas port is .055 which is the smallest they make.

This 12.5" will replace a 10.3" upper with AGB that I am selling on here.

I also have a Bootleg adjustable carrier that I never really used. They are not optimal but an option to allow quick selection of suppressed vs unsuppressed with a flat head screwdriver.

[SC_Dave]

Ha! I should have known. The gas tube I need is out of stock!
David

[rayrevolver]

Ha! I should have known. The gas tube I need is out of stock!
David

David - I can send you the Bootleg Adjustable BCG to try out. I bought it used for a build that never happened. Its gathering dust at the moment.

It will get you shooting until the EZ Tune comes back in stock.

PM your address.

[Magsz]

I can tell you what NOT to do.

As other's have said, adjustable gas blocks, carriers etc all "solve" the problem to a reasonable degree.

The issue is that with the vast majority of these "fixes" you're introducing complexity into the system that doesn't need to be there. Despite having good results with a variety of products on the market, I still don't trust any of these solutions.

I've used almost every adjustable block on the market. The block that ended up working the best for me without any issues across thousands of rounds was the Superlative Arms. These blocks never seized and never suffered from any measurable erosion to the point where the gas setting degraded and had to be adjusted. My most used SLR gas block has 13k rounds of 5.56 through it, 100% suppressed. The next SA gas block has 9k of 7.62X39 through it, 100% suppressed.

That's a pretty nice testament to their durability. However, these guns were ALL run in a range setting and never saw the "real world". They never saw a variety of temperatures. They never saw mud, snow, sand etc.

Ultimately, anything with moving parts is introducing failure points.

The adjustable carriers from Bootleg and Gemtec all potentially fall victim to the same issue. The gas adjustments are subject to erosion, seizure and on the Bootleg, its only a gross adjustment. Depending on the port size of your barrel, the settings may or may not work optimally.

The BRT tubes have only one downside. Port erosion. A long time ago, BRT quoted the service life span as being 5000 rounds. That's not a ton of rounds but truthfully, it's enough. The tubes aren't super expensive and its an easy process to replace them.

Ultimately, the "best" solution is to go ahead and replace your barrel with the port that will work best for your ammo needs.

The second "best" fix is going to be a gas tube.

The third "best" fix is going to be buffer springs and weights.

Just my two cents.

[rayrevolver]

Ultimately, the "best" solution is to go ahead and replace your barrel with the port that will work best for your ammo needs.

Just my two cents.

To me, this is also the hardest path and akin to direct milling your pistol for a specific optic footprint. The EZ tune is as reliable IMHO, good for 10k rounds, and can be swapped out in 15 minutes. I am getting 2 pistols direct milled but when I think about a custom barrel, I am too cheap to pay full price!

I shot my 12.5 Carbine gasser today with the .057 EZ Tune (which is stated to mimic a 0.055 gas port). It worked 100% as expected with my suppressor and rifle spring+A5H3 buffer (I was too lazy last night to break open the buffer to make an A5H2***). One one hand, a smaller port is possible if only shooting 5.56 ammo, but even with the AGB I would find the correct setting for 223 lockback and then open it up one more click for the homies who aren't with us. That was doubly conservative for shooting 5.56 and I wonder if that is the equivalent to a 0.055 gas port?

No issues today with 5.56 55gr, 5.56 77gr OTM Clone (my precious stash of CBC), and some cheap BVAC .223 55gr that is probably my lightest load. But not a stress test at all, clean system, indoors, and not a lot of rounds.

*** At some point in the past I bought a bag of tungsten weights. If you have an A5H1, you can then make the A5H2-3-4. The A5H0 comes with an AL weight for the bias spring and cannot be swapped out. Cool Story Bro - If anyone wants some weights to mess with, let me know and we can work something out.

[HCM]

All of these AR threads evolve into myopia.

It’s a PSA rifle/pistol.

So a $500 firearm?

.223/5.56 is currently about $500 / k.

Even if the $50ish BRT gas tube causes port erosion in the barrel at 5k rounds, that’s $2500 in ammo to reach the need to replace the cheap barrel with a better barrel ?

Plus 10” guns run hard and harder on everything resulting in shorter preventive maintenance intervals. MK18s are cool but there’s no free lunch. So 5k would not be a bad time to swap the bolt and action spring as well as the barrel.

If the OP does swap barrels and wants to stay with 10” I’ve had good results with the Expo Arms 10.3” barrel expo arms is the house brand for primary arms. The expo barrels are made by Rosco. It’s a nitrated button cut barrel, but they do have proper .070 gas ports.

Opinions are like a*****es, everyone has one, and there are those that swear by 10 inch barrels. However, in my experience and based on the data I’ve seen from large organization testing- there is a notable increase in durability and reliability by going from a 10” barrel to an 11.5”.

There is a reason why SOCOM is going from 10” to 11.5” in the Block III SBRs and why some of the largest agencies in North America which issue SBR (CBP, USBP, FBI, DEA, ICE, USSS) issue 11.5” rather than 10” guns. It’s also worth noting that until the Navy specified a 10 inch barrel for the MK18, Colt would not sell ARs shorter than 11.5” despite having experimented with shorter guns.

[TGS]

All of these AR threads evolve into myopia.

It’s a PSA rifle/pistol.

So a $500 firearm?

.223/5.56 is currently about $500 / k.

Even if the $50ish BRT gas tube causes port erosion in the barrel at 5k rounds, that’s $2500 in ammo to reach the need to replace the cheap barrel with a better barrel ?

Plus 10” guns run hard and harder on everything resulting in shorter preventive maintenance intervals. MK18s are cool but there’s no free lunch. So 5k would not be a bad time to swap the bolt and action spring as well as the barrel.

If the OP does swap barrels and wants to stay with 10” I’ve had good results with the Expo Arms 10.3” barrel expo arms is the house brand for primary arms. The expo barrels are made by Rosco. It’s a nitrated button cut barrel, but they do have proper .070 gas ports.

Opinions are like a*****es, everyone has one, and there are those that swear by 10 inch barrels. However, in my experience and based on the data I’ve seen from large organization testing- there is a notable increase in durability and reliability by going from a 10” barrel to an 11.5”.

There is a reason why SOCOM is going from 10” to 11.5” in the Block III SBRs and why some of the largest agencies in North America which issue SBR (CBP, USBP, FBI, DEA, ICE, USSS) issue 11.5” rather than 10” guns. It’s also worth noting that until the Navy specified a 10 inch barrel for the MK18, Colt would not sell ARs shorter than 11.5” despite having experimented with shorter guns.

1) He has an 11.5" barrel.

2) BRT tubes do not cause port erosion in the barrel. The barrel's port will erode independently of whether a person uses a BRT tube or not. The 5,000 round service life refers to port erosion on the BRT tube.

[HCM]

1) He has an 11.5" barrel.

2) BRT tubes do not cause port erosion in the barrel. The barrel's port will erode independently of whether a person uses a BRT tube or not. The 5,000 round service life refers to port erosion on the BRT tube.

Ah… even better on both counts.

I thought the service life on the BRT tube was up to 10k though ?

[TGS]

Ah… even better on both counts.

I thought the service life on the BRT tube was up to 10k though ?

That's what I understood it as, as well. Default.mp3 brought up the 5k round number...I'm not sure if that's an early number used before a lot of data points were compiled by BRT, or what. He might have more context.

[HCM]

That's what I understood it as, as well. Default.mp3 brought up the 5k round number...I'm not sure if that's an early number used before a lot of data points were compiled by BRT, or what. He might have more context.

It may vary by configuration (carbine vs mid) and how it’s used (suppressed vs unsuppressed) and firing schedule.

[Magsz]

That's what I understood it as, as well. Default.mp3 brought up the 5k round number...I'm not sure if that's an early number used before a lot of data points were compiled by BRT, or what. He might have more context.

I asked this question years ago and the owner of BRT told me (or whomever the CS rep was) that the tubes had a service life of 5K rounds. The website now states 10k.

Either way, it's not a lot of money for the part.

[SC_Dave]

You guys have been a great help to me on this. In completing the details on BRT's site it's asking for
Barrel Model/Gas Port Size and I'm not sure how to discover this information. I looked over the barrel for any nomenclature but saw nothing. Could you guys guide me in the right direction for this info please.
David

[rainman]

You guys have been a great help to me on this. In completing the details on BRT's site it's asking for
Barrel Model/Gas Port Size and I'm not sure how to discover this information. I looked over the barrel for any nomenclature but saw nothing. Could you guys guide me in the right direction for this info please.
David

Short of measuring (you would need a pin-gage set), you can try to find your barrel here...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tXunBDX5Gaz87BqxwNxDUlWNK9nEv-cZEQoLq2JXXrk/edit#gid=766121382


-Rainman

[rayrevolver]

You guys have been a great help to me on this. In completing the details on BRT's site it's asking for
Barrel Model/Gas Port Size and I'm not sure how to discover this information. I looked over the barrel for any nomenclature but saw nothing. Could you guys guide me in the right direction for this info please.
David

Not needed. Barrel length/gas system, ammo type, suppressor, and RE/buffer/spring should be good-to-go.

[SC_Dave]

Just circling back around.

First rayrevolver was kind enough to loan me his adjustable BCG to use while the gas tube came in from BRT and I really appreciate that Ray.

The tube from BRT along with the Gold extractor spring came in and I replaced both. Went to the range for testing with 4 different kinds of ammunition ranging from my reloads to factory target to premium self defense rounds and the gun ran them all flawlessly. I'm calling it fixed. I appreciate everyone's help and input here it made a lot of difference.
David

[Alaskapopo]

Banish 223 on AR Pistol

The over-gas is causing the BCG to cycle hard and fast resulting in an eject/feed issue. First time I have experienced this and would like some advice as to how to approach the fix.

The rifle has a H1 Buffer, if I install an H2, would the heavier buffer mitigate the issue?


Thanks in advance,
David

Adjustable gas block is a must with baffle cans