Is a Macro a slimline or mid size?

[GJM]

I have thought of my main food groups as competition pistol, mid size carry pistol and slimline carry pistol.

The competition and mid size pistols change as I do, but for some years my wife and I have settled on the 365 family as the better mousetrap in slimline pistols. The more I shoot the Macro, the more I appreciate how well it shoots. The performance delta between the Macro and mid size has blurred for me.

At this point is there a performance or reliability difference between the Macro and a mid size carry pistol?

[ECK]

Probably not. Interesting how our conventional categories are becoming blurred.

I would consider the Macro a mid-sized pistol at this point mainly because of the full grip most adults can take. The 365XL is a tad short to get a fullsize grip and I have to flare out my pinkie when reloading so I don’t pinch my palm between the mag and magwell.

But from a shooting standpoint, I shoot the 365XL better than any of the other slim-line gats (Glock 43, Shield, Kahr). I’ve only shot the Macro a few times but IME that full hand grip is what distinguishes it from all the other mini’s. And other than slightly slimmer girth it handles just like my P10C -which I consider a true mid-sized carry gun of the G19 ilk.

I may be making the jump in 2024 to the Macro grip module and drop my XL slide and FCU into it. For sure, gonna get a couple Macro mags to use even with the XL.

[JCN]

I was talking with a company that is going to make a steel full size P365 grip module.

What a great time in life to have firearm choices!

Slimline I see as a term independent of the grip and slide length.

If you made a P365 variant with the same overall weight as a G19, it’d probably shoot pretty similarly.

The macro grip has very nice ergos. When Sig makes an 4.0” barrel XXL slide it’s going to be great. .

[G19Fan]

Feel a macro is basically a lighter slightly more recoil but better ergo G19

[G19Fan]

I was talking with a company that is going to make a steel full size P365 grip module.

What a great time in life to have firearm choices!

Slimline I see as a term independent of the grip and slide length.

If you made a P365 variant with the same overall weight as a G19, it’d probably shoot pretty similarly.

The macro grip has very nice ergos. When Sig makes an 4.0” barrel XXL slide it’s going to be great. .

This is interesting. Hope it fits oem holsters.

Any eta?

[Biggy]

To me my Macro XL is like a slim compact G19 sized type pistol. I like mine but if I was doing it over I just might consider going with a Gen 5 G26 or a CZP10S with +2 mag extensions and SCD’s on them. IMHO, there is always pro’s and con’s to the size, weight and capacity of a carry pistol, and you get decide what’s best for you. It will be interesting to see what CZ and Glock comes out with at SHOT in 22 days.

[ECK]

We haven’t done it in a while but my club used to host an outlaw EDC match on months with 5 Saturdays. Basic idea was to shoot your EDC from concealment wearing street clothes (vests were fine but you probably would be made fun of).

We only had 3 divisions:
John Wick: Anything goes. Shoot yer Open gun if you want to but it had to be concealed
Goldilocks: Kinda the in betweener division. Basically a G19 size gun.
ISHBABG (I Should Have Brought A Bigger Gun): This was intended for the sub compacts, think G43 (the original one not the 10-rnd version).

Red dots were fine, but that would put you in John Wick regardless of size of gun (CO was just becoming a division in USPSA).

One cool thing about those matches was it changed quite a few people’s minds about their EDC gun and whether they really wanted to chance their life on that particular gun/setup.

Can’t remember what year it was, but towards the end we started to see an “arms race” in the ISHBABG division. At first it was the G26 with a 140 mag (I threatened to create a Uzi division where the mag was longer than the bbl). Then it progressed with the M&P Shields, then the G43/48 10-rnders, then the 365’s going to 12 and 15 rnds. Now with red dots being more common even on the micros, we would have to rethink the divisions if we started them up again.

IDPA tried with their CCP division but the 8 rnd max capacity is a little behind the times.

[GJM]

A metal 365 grip module that took Lok grips would be awesome.

[ECK]

A metal 365 grip module that took Lok grips would be awesome.

Kind of reminds me of a Kahr K-9 that I had back in the 90s. But with a better trigger.

[Brianjkeene]

A metal 365 grip module that took Lok grips would be awesome.

LOK does have brass grips available for the 365 AXG Legion already.

[G19Fan]

LOK does have brass grips available for the 365 AXG Legion already.

I think for polymer frames. The axg legion doesn't have replaceable backstraps

[echo5charlie]

I now look at the P365 series as gender fluid - it went from a basic 'customize ur gun' to 'redefine ur gun'; when someone says they have a P365 I know have to figure out the pronouns. So.....

I would consider the Macro a mid-size pistol, IIRC the grip length is greater than a G19?

At the rate of evolution for the P365 FCU, I'm eagerly awaiting the AR upper conversion kit. Piston, of course.

[MVS]

A metal 365 grip module that took Lok grips would be awesome.

I am sure Lok will have grip panels soon, and I will probably get some, but I really like the stock ones on this AXG.

[GJM]

I am hoping Sig sells just the grip module soon, as the ported top doesn't interest me. Is the 365 AXG module supposedly compatible with Macro holsters?

The AXG grip module and black Lok brass grips would be an interesting blaster.

Something I noticed today, is the Macro is harder for me to shoot fast support hand than a Glock or 229. I think it is the relatively thin grip and smallish optic display size. I really need to extend my support arm fully shooting support hand only.

[GJM]

I am sure Lok will have grip panels soon, and I will probably get some, but I really like the stock ones on this AXG.

The Lok brass are 3.7 ounces.

[Brianjkeene]

I think for polymer frames. The axg legion doesn't have replaceable backstraps

They have the replaceable side panels that are brass

[G19Fan]

They have the replaceable side panels that are brass

Oh neat!

[G19Fan]

I am hoping Sig sells just the grip module soon, as the ported top doesn't interest me. Is the 365 AXG module supposedly compatible with Macro holsters?

The AXG grip module and black Lok brass grips would be an interesting blaster.

Something I noticed today, is the Macro is harder for me to shoot fast support hand than a Glock or 229. I think it is the relatively thin grip and smallish optic display size. I really need to extend my support arm fully shooting support hand only.

Maybe also weight in addition?

[MVS]

I am hoping Sig sells just the grip module soon, as the ported top doesn't interest me. Is the 365 AXG module supposedly compatible with Macro holsters?

The AXG grip module and black Lok brass grips would be an interesting blaster.

Something I noticed today, is the Macro is harder for me to shoot fast support hand than a Glock or 229. I think it is the relatively thin grip and smallish optic display size. I really need to extend my support arm fully shooting support hand only.

I reported somewhere here my 365 AXG definitely fits more snugly in a Macro holster. Of the handful I tested some fit without adjustment some did not.

Not sure if I want the extra weight of the brass grips in my carry gun or not. I tell you, with that velocity reducer on it, it shoots pretty soft.

All of my small guns are harder for me to shoot support hand and I blame a lot of it on the smaller window, but I guess different recoil recovery is probably more accurate?

[GJM]

I reported somewhere here my 365 AXG definitely fits more snugly in a Macro holster. Of the handful I tested some fit without adjustment some did not.

Not sure if I want the extra weight of the brass grips in my carry gun or not. I tell you, with that velocity reducer on it, it shoots pretty soft.

All of my small guns are harder for me to shoot support hand and I blame a lot of it on the smaller window, but I guess different recoil recovery is probably more accurate?

I am not a fan of that upper, as I have found it substantially less accurate at 25 yards and beyond, especially with ball ammo. I find the 3.1, XL and 3.1 PMM barrel/comp to shoot much better.

[G19Fan]

I am not a fan of that upper, as I have found it substantially less accurate at 25 yards and beyond, especially with ball ammo. I find the 3.1, XL and 3.1 PMM barrel/comp to shoot much better.

PMM barrel and comp is so nice

[D-der]

If you don't mind the additional .5", try a PMM comp
on the 3.7 barrel...no velocity loss and improved
shot cycle, mine's been 100% reliable.

[GJM]

If you don't mind the additional .5", try a PMM comp
on the 3.7 barrel...no velocity loss and improved
shot cycle, mine's been 100% reliable.

Brings the Macro into midsize proportions -- do you get XL holsters left open at the bottom?

[RJ]

I dunno. There's a wide variety of nomenclature in use by manufacturers these days. One offshoot of my hand / grip study I never fully explored was comparing my results on categorizing guns by grip circumference to the sizing names that Glock,Sig, S&W, etc use. I should do that sometime.

[D-der]

Brings the Macro into midsize proportions -- do you get XL holsters left open at the bottom?

When I was running this slide on an XL, I just used a heat gun to open up a 2.0 and 2.5,
after I put the Macro together Tony made me an X Macro 2.5 with an open muzzle, just
part of the comp protrudes from all three holsters. which are only about .25" longer.

[TOTS]

If you don't mind the additional .5", try a PMM comp
on the 3.7 barrel...no velocity loss and improved
shot cycle, mine's been 100% reliable.


Brings the Macro into midsize proportions -- do you get XL holsters left open at the bottom?
That’s kind of what I’m thinking about. Comparing the pros/cons of the PMM vs Monsoon’s Helleport. Thinking the latter for a carry piece. Thoughts?

[TOTS]

If you don't mind the additional .5", try a PMM comp
on the 3.7 barrel...no velocity loss and improved
shot cycle, mine's been 100% reliable.
Can you post a picture of the MacroXXL !?

[GJM]

That’s kind of what I’m thinking about. Comparing the pros/cons of the PMM vs Monsoon’s Helleport. Thinking the latter for a carry piece. Thoughts?

12-14 weeks for the Monsoon vs plug and play with the PMM seems a no brainer to my short attention span personality!

[D-der]

12-14 weeks for the Monsoon vs plug and play with the PMM seems a no brainer to my short attention span personality!

Easy peasy, as advertised, also, at least with my sample PM barrel is at least as accurate as the OE

[D-der]

Can you post a picture of the MacroXXL !?

Sorry, I'm illiterate when it comes to posting photo's here and no longer have a photo hosting account (if required ?)...
If you'd like to IM a phone # I'd gladly text some to you and you could post em if you wish.

[TOTS]

12-14 weeks for the Monsoon vs plug and play with the PMM seems a no brainer to my short attention span personality!
Sadly, convenience and luxury get sacrificed on the altar of a limited budget for me. Im trying to decide what best to do with what I have. Adding the comp on the end of the 3.7 vs creating a comp into the 3.7 and retaining the accuracy and efficiency vs the easy button of the factory slide ’comp’.

I think adding the comp on the end takes it out of the slimline category and pushes it to a full-size length. Definitely past a carry length. I’m leaning towards the Helleport if you missed the opportunity to originally get a 365/X and add the PMM comp and Macro grip. I went that direction for the $150 in free magazines during the rebate.

[RJ]

I dunno. There's a wide variety of nomenclature in use by manufacturers these days. One offshoot of my hand / grip study I never fully explored was comparing my results on categorizing guns by grip circumference to the sizing names that Glock,Sig, S&W, etc use. I should do that sometime.

Hm, well, I spent a few minutes and can report back. I did a quick survey of three common manufacturers, what terms they used for "size" as well as examples, and compared it to my study results of gun size by grip circumference.

Curious.
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[ItsMrHammer]

This thread is interesting to me because I wonder the same, mainly due to the grip length. I have a macro tacops with a thumb safety but stuck between carrying it or selling it for a G26 with a SCD(prefer it over the safety). Not sure how much the reduction in width would help in concealment/comfort but I’m tempted to hit the Glock easy button and have a similar manual of arms for all my defensive pistols, not a fan of the P320. If Glock had an actual micro contender I’d just have all glocks and be done with it:confused:

[Up1911Fan]

Brings the Macro into midsize proportions -- do you get XL holsters left open at the bottom?

JM makes a long version for the Macro. I prefer the extra length. That's a Macro chopped for 12rd XL mags.

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[Up1911Fan]

For me, I consider it a midsize. My X-Macro's/chopped X-Macro 's ( all non ported) replaced my G19's as carry guns. I'm still not at Gen5 19 shooting ability with them. But there close. The Macro chopped for 12rd mags is truly a 90% solution for me.

[flyrodr]

With apologies if this has been covered here or elsewhere recently (but I haven't seen it). Assuming a more/less "regular-sized" pistol performs at a person's 100% level, at what percentage does, say, a G26 perform? A 365XL? A 365?

Just wondering if some could roughly quantify the reduction, if any, in the performance level (whatever one considers that to be: speed, accuracy, etc), as the pistol size is reduced.

Thanks.

[Noah]

With apologies if this has been covered here or elsewhere recently (but I haven't seen it). Assuming a more/less "regular-sized" pistol performs at a person's 100% level, at what percentage does, say, a G26 perform? A 365XL? A 365?

Just wondering if some could roughly quantify the reduction, if any, in the performance level (whatever one considers that to be: speed, accuracy, etc), as the pistol size is reduced.

Thanks.

With a sample size of about 10 Bakersfield Tests shot at B8s using both traditional and hit factor scoring, with a G45 vs a G48, with similar sights, trigger, holster, and grip texture, I saw a consistent ~5% loss of performance, due to an increase of recoil/split times. This mattered when the G48 was much less forgiving of how perfectly consistent the sight return would be. For me, with the larger guns (19, 45, 17, etc), I can hit a grip on the draw which gives me what feels like effortless, consistent sight return like 95+% of the time. With the G48, it felt like my "window" of my grip being perfect enough to get that effortless sight return was much, much lower, maybe 60% at best. If my grip wasn't completely ideal, and I'm talking marginal differences, I'd get kind of a left or right bounce in sight return, IE the sights return a few inches left or right of my point of aim at 10-15y.

That probably wouldn't really matter for most defensive shooting, or if someone dedicated themselves to the slim frame guns exclusively and trained past it, but for me, I found myself carrying the G45 more often after shooting the G48 all summer, that I just went to 2 G19s as a "compromise".

[GJM]

I am just back from the range, where I was shooting my 320 AXG in LO form, followed by a XL/Macro and then a 365 PMM/Macro.

I see significantly more than a 5 percent difference between my heavy AXG and the Macro, doing freestyle array shooting. However, the delta gets a lot greater when I do unloaded starts, reloads, clearing malfunctions, and especially support hand only shooting.

Interestingly shooting three steel twice each (6 shot drill), I was 10-12 percent faster with the 365 with the PMM comp compared to the XL upper.

[TOTS]

I am just back from the range, where I was shooting my 320 AXG in LO form, followed by a XL/Macro and then a 365 PMM/Macro.

I see significantly more than a 5 percent difference between my heavy AXG and the Macro, doing freestyle array shooting. However, the delta gets a lot greater when I do unloaded starts, reloads, clearing malfunctions, and especially support hand only shooting.

Interestingly shooting three steel twice each (6 shot drill), I was 10-12 percent faster with the 365 with the PMM comp compared to the XL upper.
Interested in the same test but with a plan 320 compact or carry (whatever the G19 analog if 320 is) instead of a competition oriented baseline.

[MVS]

I am just back from the range, where I was shooting my 320 AXG in LO form, followed by a XL/Macro and then a 365 PMM/Macro.

I see significantly more than a 5 percent difference between my heavy AXG and the Macro, doing freestyle array shooting. However, the delta gets a lot greater when I do unloaded starts, reloads, clearing malfunctions, and especially support hand only shooting.

Interestingly shooting three steel twice each (6 shot drill), I was 10-12 percent faster with the 365 with the PMM comp compared to the XL upper.

When I ran my comparisons of my Canik MC9, 365Xl and 320 Carry/TXG, that is very similar to what I was seeing right down to the gun handling and WHO differences.

[TOTS]

Brings the Macro into midsize proportions -- do you get XL holsters left open at the bottom?

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Posted some photos D-der texted me. Doesn’t look too bad in normal sized holsters. Also, for comparison, here’s some pictures showing length wrt an XL and P-10c pretty well.

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[G19Fan]

With a sample size of about 10 Bakersfield Tests shot at B8s using both traditional and hit factor scoring, with a G45 vs a G48, with similar sights, trigger, holster, and grip texture, I saw a consistent ~5% loss of performance, due to an increase of recoil/split times. This mattered when the G48 was much less forgiving of how perfectly consistent the sight return would be. For me, with the larger guns (19, 45, 17, etc), I can hit a grip on the draw which gives me what feels like effortless, consistent sight return like 95+% of the time. With the G48, it felt like my "window" of my grip being perfect enough to get that effortless sight return was much, much lower, maybe 60% at best. If my grip wasn't completely ideal, and I'm talking marginal differences, I'd get kind of a left or right bounce in sight return, IE the sights return a few inches left or right of my point of aim at 10-15y.

That probably wouldn't really matter for most defensive shooting, or if someone dedicated themselves to the slim frame guns exclusively and trained past it, but for me, I found myself carrying the G45 more often after shooting the G48 all summer, that I just went to 2 G19s as a "compromise".

This makes sense.

Personally irons va optic make a big difference for me even if same platform

[Noah]

This makes sense.

Personally irons va optic make a big difference for me even if same platform

It's very personal for me, but I have little or no performance delta optics vs irons. Even after 2+ years and a few classes with the dot, I went back to irons in summer 2022. But vision is incredibly individual.

It felt like getting within 5% of my G19/G45 performance with the G48 took a lot of effort.

[GJM]

My Macro I was shooting today has a 6 moa dot. For support hand and weird positions, an optic with a circle only option can be helpful with pistols with small window optics.

[D-der]

JM makes a long version for the Macro. I prefer the extra length. That's a Macro chopped for 12rd XL mags.

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Try a Magguts kit, it'll give you 14+1, in my sample of a handful, they've run 100%

[Up1911Fan]

Try a Magguts kit, it'll give you 14+1, in my sample of a handful, they've run 100%

I've heard a few people say they work fine, and read some negative reviews as well. If it was a gamer gun I'd try them out, but I'm not willing to sacrifice reliability for a 2 round gain on a carry gun. I'm also not willing to burn through the amount of ammo it would take for me to be comfortable with them at this time.

[GJM]

Something I forgot to mention, while shooting the Macro lower/365 PMM upper earlier today, I had a stoppage with 124 Lawman. My 365 3.1 and XL non comp'd uppers have been incredibly reliable. I have had a few stoppages with the PMM -- not too many but enough to make me believe the OEM plain barrels are more reliable.

[D-der]

I've heard a few people say they work fine, and read some negative reviews as well. If it was a gamer gun I'd try them out, but I'm not willing to sacrifice reliability for a 2 round gain on a carry gun. I'm also not willing to burn through the amount of ammo it would take for me to be comfortable with them at this time.

I hear ya, I did... that's why I have a handful! :)

[Noah]

Something I forgot to mention, while shooting the Macro lower/365 PMM upper earlier today, I had a stoppage with 124 Lawman. My 365 3.1 and XL non comp'd uppers have been incredibly reliable. I have had a few stoppages with the PMM -- not too many but enough to make me believe the OEM plain barrels are more reliable.

I was in a class with a guy who had an otherwise stock 365XL with a PMM that had frequent stoppages even with decent 124 brass.

[D-der]

I've heard a few people say they work fine, and read some negative reviews as well. If it was a gamer gun I'd try them out, but I'm not willing to sacrifice reliability for a 2 round gain on a carry gun. I'm also not willing to burn through the amount of ammo it would take for me to be comfortable with them at this time.

My sample of one 3.7" barrel, 3000-3500 rds mixed ball 115, 124 and 147gr, 124 & 147 gr HST & GD, all have fed, ejected, locked back. I do keep it lubed and clean it regularly.

[D-der]

Double post

[Biggy]

Comps are fun but would they be the determining factor with you winning a gunfight ? IMHO, probably not.

[TOTS]

Comps are fun but would they be the determining factor with you winning a gunfight ? IMHO, probably not.
Honestly, that’s why I would be interested in having one. For the big gunfight. I don’t care about range fun, but if it would take SD hot ammo and give me back the accuracy and speed I lose when spicing up low recoil range ammo - in my mind, that translates into hits. Don’t read this as disagreement though. Probably not the determinant.

Caveat - reliability is paramount.

[GJM]

Honestly, that’s why I would be interested in having one. For the big gunfight. I don’t care about range fun, but if it would take SD hot ammo and give me back the accuracy and speed I lose when spicing up low recoil range ammo - in my mind, that translates into hits. Don’t read this as disagreement though. Probably not the determinant.

Caveat - reliability is paramount.

Same here. Speed with Gold Dot 124+P.

I set up steel today, and shot the array (two each steel) enough times with the XL upper to get a baseline. Then repeated with the PMM comp. The comp was measurably faster. Would that matter defensively, not sure, but with the comp I could get six hits on the three steel in the time it took to get five hits without the comp.

Here is with the comp.


https://youtu.be/-FiFTbg2lb8?feature=shared

[G19Fan]

Something I forgot to mention, while shooting the Macro lower/365 PMM upper earlier today, I had a stoppage with 124 Lawman. My 365 3.1 and XL non comp'd uppers have been incredibly reliable. I have had a few stoppages with the PMM -- not too many but enough to make me believe the OEM plain barrels are more reliable.

My experience too

[G19Fan]

It's very personal for me, but I have little or no performance delta optics vs irons. Even after 2+ years and a few classes with the dot, I went back to irons in summer 2022. But vision is incredibly individual.

It felt like getting within 5% of my G19/G45 performance with the G48 took a lot of effort.

Agreed as I got older my eyes def got worse.

I do target focused close and that works fine but as distance grows it gets slower and slower irons for.me

[GJM]

I spent some time in dry fire and then working support hand presentations with the Macro today. The circle only reticle is definitely helpful for me in consistently finding the dot (really circle).

Also, thinking about the 3.1 with PMM, 3.7-4.0 in barrel length seems a sweet spot in barrel lengths, in terms of velocity and making the gun function reliably. In my experience shorter barrels can function, but the envelope is narrower.

[Up1911Fan]

JM makes a long version for the Macro. I prefer the extra length. That's a Macro chopped for 12rd XL mags.

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theJanitor Here's the Long version for the Macro with an XL length slide.

[theJanitor]

theJanitor Here's the Long version for the Macro with an XL length slide.

Thanks Up1911Fan. I'm looking for about 5-1/2" from the top of the belt, to the bottom of the holster.

[Up1911Fan]

Thanks Up1911Fan. I'm looking for about 5-1/2" from the top of the belt, to the bottom of the holster.

I can measure that distance tonight.

[D-der]

I spent some time in dry fire and then working support hand presentations with the Macro today. The circle only reticle is definitely helpful for me in consistently finding the dot (really circle).

Also, thinking about the 3.1 with PMM, 3.7-4.0 in barrel length seems a sweet spot in barrel lengths, in terms of velocity and making the gun function reliably. In my experience shorter barrels can function, but the envelope is narrower.

I don't go through nearly as many rd's as a lot of guy's here but I'm somewhere around 16000 rd's through 4 365's. one of of em is a 3.1 with around 3000 (my original) the rest are through 2 XL's and a built Macro with an XL slide with zero failures of any kind, no doubt I've been lucky but I give em a quick clean & lube when I get to 250-350 rd's or more often if they're full of sweat & lint but it seems with decent ammo and just a little maintenance the 3.7's run, even with intentional limp wristing, strong or weak hand, mine have run, even with a comp. With the exception of pocket carry, you can change the grip module and have almost any size gun you want, at least for carry. The 365 doesn't work for me personally with pocket carry and the length of the 3.7 slide doesn't bother me AIWB, why give up velocity, possibly reliability as well a longer sight radius if you don't run a dot, so...If I didn't already own one, personally I wouldn't bother with a 3.1 top end.

[G19Fan]

I don't go through nearly as many rd's as a lot of guy's here but I'm somewhere around 16000 rd's through 4 365's. one of of em is a 3.1 with around 3000 (my original) the rest are through 2 XL's and a built Macro with an XL slide with zero failures of any kind, no doubt I've been lucky but I give em a quick clean & lube when I get to 250-350 rd's or more often if they're full of sweat & lint but it seems with decent ammo and just a little maintenance the 3.7's run, even with intentional limp wristing, strong or weak hand, mine have run, even with a comp. With the exception of pocket carry, you can change the grip module and have almost any size gun you want, at least for carry. The 365 doesn't work for me personally with pocket carry and the length of the 3.7 slide doesn't bother me AIWB, why give up velocity, possibly reliability as well a longer sight radius if you don't run a dot, so...If I didn't already own one, personally I wouldn't bother with a 3.1 top end.

Same unless doing a lot of crouching/biking/motorcycling I don't see a point with the 3.1

[D-der]

Same unless doing a lot of crouching/biking/motorcycling I don't see a point with the 3.1

Hey, I'm an old guy with bone on bone knees and ride a Harley Davidon, not a Ducati...thankfully I don't have to do a lot of crouching!

[SwampDweller]

First, I'm not at all saying the Macro or similar pistols are dumb or bad, but there is something I don't understand. Sig revolutionized the concealed carry market with it's P365. A very small gun with relatively high capacity of 10 or 12 rounds. Steadily, these micro 9s like the 365 and Hellcat have gotten stretched out longer and taller to the point where they're basically the same length in grip and slide as a G19 or other midsize pistol, while not being as smooth shooting. Is a Macro (or even XL for that matter) really that much easier to carry than a G19 sized gun? I know the grip is a bit more svelte, but last I compared the Macro and Hellcat Pro's grips were actually ever so slightly longer than a G19, M&P 9 M2.0 Compact, or P10C. I've always found the grip length to be the critical factor in printing, not necessarily the girth. The width of the G19 and similar may be slightly wider, but does it really make that much of a difference to be worth not being quite as easy to shoot well? I do find the slimlines, even the XL/Macro versions, to be more snappy and take more effort to shoot well than a G19-sized pistol. And when experimenting with carrying of various slimline pistols like the XL, I didn't find it any easier to conceal than a G19 since both require IWB carry anyway, and both can be concealed under a T-shirt (for me). I'd rather have the gun that's easier to shoot and has a long track record.

It just seems like the Macro sized pistols defeat the purpose of the idea of the slimline pistol, but obviously there's something I'm not getting and that's okay. I don't get a lot of things.

[Noah]

First, I'm not at all saying the Macro or similar pistols are dumb or bad, but there is something I don't understand. Sig revolutionized the concealed carry market with it's P365. A very small gun with relatively high capacity of 10 or 12 rounds. Steadily, these micro 9s like the 365 and Hellcat have gotten stretched out longer and taller to the point where they're basically the same length in grip and slide as a G19 or other midsize pistol, while not being as smooth shooting. Is a Macro (or even XL for that matter) really that much easier to carry than a G19 sized gun? I know the grip is a bit more svelte, but last I compared the Macro and Hellcat Pro's grips were actually ever so slightly longer than a G19, M&P 9 M2.0 Compact, or P10C. I've always found the grip length to be the critical factor in printing, not necessarily the girth. The width of the G19 and similar may be slightly wider, but does it really make that much of a difference to be worth not being quite as easy to shoot well? I do find the slimlines, even the XL/Macro versions, to be more snappy and take more effort to shoot well than a G19-sized pistol. And when experimenting with carrying of various slimline pistols like the XL, I didn't find it any easier to conceal than a G19 since both require IWB carry anyway, and both can be concealed under a T-shirt (for me). I'd rather have the gun that's easier to shoot and has a long track record.

It just seems like the Macro sized pistols defeat the purpose of the idea of the slimline pistol, but obviously there's something I'm not getting and that's okay. I don't get a lot of things.

So I'm carrying a G19 right now and sold my G48 to just get another G19, because I find them easier to shoot and just like them more. But the slim guns are legitimate.

Until my wife picked up a G48 and liked it a few years ago, I also thought the 4" barrel, ~5" tall slim guns like the Macro and G48 were dumb. After carrying the 48 for the summer in a good holster, and also helping my brother start carrying, my opinion flipped. Once you have a good holster and belt, at least for AIWB, the thickness of the pistol really is at least as important of a dimension for comfort and concealment as the grip length. Putting on a slim gun, for me, is a noticeable difference. You can immediately feel you're just carrying less bulk. It also hides a little better under tee shirts.

I ended up carrying my G45 again by the end of the summer just out of taste, and decided to compromise and go to 2 19s, but the slim guns aren't just a fad, they really are easier to carry and hide than a gun of the same dimensions but thicker, and I think they make more sense in many situations.

I think something like a 365XL with a slightly improved grip for a larger backstrap where it's just big enough to get all of your fingers on is pretty ideal. The "full dimension" guns like the G48, Hellcat Pro, and Macro probably just feel better to grab than the shorter guns to a lot of people even if they still have that light snappy slide.

[GJM]

First, I'm not at all saying the Macro or similar pistols are dumb or bad, but there is something I don't understand. Sig revolutionized the concealed carry market with it's P365. A very small gun with relatively high capacity of 10 or 12 rounds. Steadily, these micro 9s like the 365 and Hellcat have gotten stretched out longer and taller to the point where they're basically the same length in grip and slide as a G19 or other midsize pistol, while not being as smooth shooting. Is a Macro (or even XL for that matter) really that much easier to carry than a G19 sized gun? I know the grip is a bit more svelte, but last I compared the Macro and Hellcat Pro's grips were actually ever so slightly longer than a G19, M&P 9 M2.0 Compact, or P10C. I've always found the grip length to be the critical factor in printing, not necessarily the girth. The width of the G19 and similar may be slightly wider, but does it really make that much of a difference to be worth not being quite as easy to shoot well? I do find the slimlines, even the XL/Macro versions, to be more snappy and take more effort to shoot well than a G19-sized pistol. And when experimenting with carrying of various slimline pistols like the XL, I didn't find it any easier to conceal than a G19 since both require IWB carry anyway, and both can be concealed under a T-shirt (for me). I'd rather have the gun that's easier to shoot and has a long track record.

It just seems like the Macro sized pistols defeat the purpose of the idea of the slimline pistol, but obviously there's something I'm not getting and that's okay. I don't get a lot of things.

While you may be focused on grip length, others think width is the most significant dimension for concealed carry. That is a reason a 1911 works so well IWB behind the hip. A Macro is significantly thinner than a 19 (1.0 vs 1.26). The Macro magazine also is thinner, and magazines can print as much as a pistol. At this point in time, I find a Macro easier to shoot than a 19, and I can draw a Macro faster.

I agree the Macro is much larger than a 365, but I consider it, based on shooting performance, to be a thin midsize that has comparable performance to many other mid size pistols. Many shooters will have an easier time with a Macro's trigger and grip angle than a Glock 19. That isn't a knock on the Glock 19 which is close to being the world's pistol, and is a pistol that can be shot incredibly well.

[D-der]

Before I got wrapped up with 365XL' s and now Macro I carried a P10C,it's proven to be 100% reliable, I shoot it well and it carries well...sometimes I shoot it and say wtf, this is pretty sweet, I'm gonna start shooting and carrying it again, a week goes by and I've got an XL / Macro appendix, almost without realizing it. For me, there's some trade offs but, I shoot whatever I carry weekly and I pretty much shoot the Sig' s from 3-30 yds as well as anything else and, over a 14hr day it's noticeably more comfortable with less concealment concern through my work day, it just seems like I've gotten more than I've given up.

[G19Fan]

First, I'm not at all saying the Macro or similar pistols are dumb or bad, but there is something I don't understand. Sig revolutionized the concealed carry market with it's P365. A very small gun with relatively high capacity of 10 or 12 rounds. Steadily, these micro 9s like the 365 and Hellcat have gotten stretched out longer and taller to the point where they're basically the same length in grip and slide as a G19 or other midsize pistol, while not being as smooth shooting. Is a Macro (or even XL for that matter) really that much easier to carry than a G19 sized gun? I know the grip is a bit more svelte, but last I compared the Macro and Hellcat Pro's grips were actually ever so slightly longer than a G19, M&P 9 M2.0 Compact, or P10C. I've always found the grip length to be the critical factor in printing, not necessarily the girth. The width of the G19 and similar may be slightly wider, but does it really make that much of a difference to be worth not being quite as easy to shoot well? I do find the slimlines, even the XL/Macro versions, to be more snappy and take more effort to shoot well than a G19-sized pistol. And when experimenting with carrying of various slimline pistols like the XL, I didn't find it any easier to conceal than a G19 since both require IWB carry anyway, and both can be concealed under a T-shirt (for me). I'd rather have the gun that's easier to shoot and has a long track record.

It just seems like the Macro sized pistols defeat the purpose of the idea of the slimline pistol, but obviously there's something I'm not getting and that's okay. I don't get a lot of things.


A macro performance wise shoots close to.a g19 for me. While being slimmer and carrying more rounds.

[G19Fan]

First, I'm not at all saying the Macro or similar pistols are dumb or bad, but there is something I don't understand. Sig revolutionized the concealed carry market with it's P365. A very small gun with relatively high capacity of 10 or 12 rounds. Steadily, these micro 9s like the 365 and Hellcat have gotten stretched out longer and taller to the point where they're basically the same length in grip and slide as a G19 or other midsize pistol, while not being as smooth shooting. Is a Macro (or even XL for that matter) really that much easier to carry than a G19 sized gun? I know the grip is a bit more svelte, but last I compared the Macro and Hellcat Pro's grips were actually ever so slightly longer than a G19, M&P 9 M2.0 Compact, or P10C. I've always found the grip length to be the critical factor in printing, not necessarily the girth. The width of the G19 and similar may be slightly wider, but does it really make that much of a difference to be worth not being quite as easy to shoot well? I do find the slimlines, even the XL/Macro versions, to be more snappy and take more effort to shoot well than a G19-sized pistol. And when experimenting with carrying of various slimline pistols like the XL, I didn't find it any easier to conceal than a G19 since both require IWB carry anyway, and both can be concealed under a T-shirt (for me). I'd rather have the gun that's easier to shoot and has a long track record.

It just seems like the Macro sized pistols defeat the purpose of the idea of the slimline pistol, but obviously there's something I'm not getting and that's okay. I don't get a lot of things.


Also faster.on a draw and indexes more naturally.than a G19

[TOTS]

Is a Macro (or even XL for that matter) really that much easier to carry than a G19 sized gun? I know the grip is a bit more svelte, but last I compared the Macro and Hellcat Pro's grips were actually ever so slightly longer than a G19, M&P 9 M2.0 Compact, or P10C. I've always found the grip length to be the critical factor in printing, not necessarily the girth. The width of the G19 and similar may be slightly wider, but does it really make that much of a difference to be worth not being quite as easy to shoot well? …

It just seems like the Macro sized pistols defeat the purpose of the idea of the slimline pistol, but obviously there's something I'm not getting and that's okay. I don't get a lot of things.


To answer your question- Yes. But your criticism is definitely valid. They are unequivocally smaller than a G19 and easier to carry. I went from trying a G19 for a year to a MP 2.0 for a year to the 365 because of the slimness and weight. But the grip IS longer. SIG should have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory but the Macro seems good enough that it is still a home run. It really is sad that we (consumers) give them a win for allowing the marketing hype of being able to claim “17 rounds in a carry gun” while ignoring the grip is ridiculously long. To me, SIG came soo close. If they had made the entire package, magazine inserted, with the same grip length as the 19 but with 15 instead of 17 - That would make it the perfect carry gun. But marketing. They even killed the 15 rnd mags for the 17 hype. I want to go on record as the first to have the idea of seeing if the 15 rnd Hellcat mag will work in the Macro. If so, chop the grip flush and that’s the gun SIG should have made.

To your other points, grip length IS the critical metric for printing. But not for carrying; and not the defining point of the slimlines (nominally, their width). Overall size and weight are what separates them. Which is why they don’t shoot as well for some as the 19. Small guns don’t have the performance of full sized guns. The longer Macro grip length buys back some of that delta.

[psalms144.1]

First, I'm not at all saying the Macro or similar pistols are dumb or bad, but there is something I don't understand. Sig revolutionized the concealed carry market with it's P365. A very small gun with relatively high capacity of 10 or 12 rounds. Steadily, these micro 9s like the 365 and Hellcat have gotten stretched out longer and taller to the point where they're basically the same length in grip and slide as a G19 or other midsize pistol, while not being as smooth shooting. Is a Macro (or even XL for that matter) really that much easier to carry than a G19 sized gun? I know the grip is a bit more svelte, but last I compared the Macro and Hellcat Pro's grips were actually ever so slightly longer than a G19, M&P 9 M2.0 Compact, or P10C. I've always found the grip length to be the critical factor in printing, not necessarily the girth. The width of the G19 and similar may be slightly wider, but does it really make that much of a difference to be worth not being quite as easy to shoot well? I do find the slimlines, even the XL/Macro versions, to be more snappy and take more effort to shoot well than a G19-sized pistol. And when experimenting with carrying of various slimline pistols like the XL, I didn't find it any easier to conceal than a G19 since both require IWB carry anyway, and both can be concealed under a T-shirt (for me). I'd rather have the gun that's easier to shoot and has a long track record.

It just seems like the Macro sized pistols defeat the purpose of the idea of the slimline pistol, but obviously there's something I'm not getting and that's okay. I don't get a lot of things.For ME, the XL carries SIGNIFICANTLY "easier" than a G19. There is a delta in shootability, yes, but it's not enough FOR ME to make it worth toting the larger pistol. YMMV, of course, and probably does.

I recently acquired a Macro grip module and a couple of mags. Haven't tried them yet, because the weather here has been unspeakably foul for the last several weeks. I'm hoping the Macro grip bridges the performance delta between the XL and the G19, but, it will likely be a "range only" grip for me.

ETA: here's the visual of the G19 vs the XL, fwiw... https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/sig-sauer-p365-xl-vs-glock-g19-gen-5-mos

[D-der]

While I don't have large hands, I do find the Sig module to be kind of small, personally I found the WC XLmodule to be a huge improvement, not so much with the Macro but, that's pretty good right out of the box

[G19Fan]

To answer your question- Yes. But your criticism is definitely valid. They are unequivocally smaller than a G19 and easier to carry. I went from trying a G19 for a year to a MP 2.0 for a year to the 365 because of the slimness and weight. But the grip IS longer. SIG should have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory but the Macro seems good enough that it is still a home run. It really is sad that we (consumers) give them a win for allowing the marketing hype of being able to claim “17 rounds in a carry gun” while ignoring the grip is ridiculously long. To me, SIG came soo close. If they had made the entire package, magazine inserted, with the same grip length as the 19 but with 15 instead of 17 - That would make it the perfect carry gun. But marketing. They even killed the 15 rnd mags for the 17 hype. I want to go on record as the first to have the idea of seeing if the 15 rnd Hellcat mag will work in the Macro. If so, chop the grip flush and that’s the gun SIG should have made.

To your other points, grip length IS the critical metric for printing. But not for carrying; and not the defining point of the slimlines (nominally, their width). Overall size and weight are what separates them. Which is why they don’t shoot as well for some as the 19. Small guns don’t have the performance of full sized guns. The longer Macro grip length buys back some of that delta.


Interesting. Let me know if that hellcat magazine works please!

[G19Fan]

While I don't have large hands, I do find the Sig module to be kind of small, personally I found the WC XLmodule to be a huge improvement, not so much with the Macro but, that's pretty good right out of the box

I do imagine sig will be redesigning the 15 round mags

[GJM]

With a grip module system and a 365 family of mags, based on a 226 dimensioned tube, Sig likely has many variants in their future.

[jandbj]

I do imagine sig will be redesigning the 15 round mags

Actually, since the macro, it looks like they’ve discontinued the 15 rd mags in favor of the 17 rd ones.
https://www.sigsauer.com/magazines/pistols.html?caliber=1903&model=1624

[Polecat]

I am quite picky. I am totally sold the in between concept. The little ones are challenging to shoot, some more than others, and the fullsize, are too full size. I would like see them come out with some in the middle models. For example, I like the Walther PDPs, but they are overly thick. Just thin them down a bit. I love the variety though!

[G19Fan]

Actually, since the macro, it looks like they’ve discontinued the 15 rd mags in favor of the 17 rd ones.
https://www.sigsauer.com/magazines/pistols.html?caliber=1903&model=1624

I mean using same macro mag tech to make a new smaller 15 flush fit

[G19Fan]

With a grip module system and a 365 family of mags, based on a 226 dimensioned tube, Sig likely has many variants in their future.

What do you mean p226 dimensioned tube?

[Noah]

What do you mean p226 dimensioned tube?

The P365 Mag tube is the same width as a P226 mag tube and all the other 9mm only double stacks from before the .40 craze, like the CZ75, B92, and Browning Hi Power.

The P365 seemed revolutionary by casting off the chains of the caliber wars. The earlier single stack guns like the Shield (and double stacks like the M&P) had to accommodate multiple calibers and simply have space wasting ribs and indents in their larger dimensioned magazines for the 9mm guns.

Someone finally realized the guns could be a lot thinner if you just stuck with a 9mm only mag tube, which hadn't really been done in polymer guns, since polymer guns and the caliber wars between 9 and .40 and .45 etc had kind of happened at the same time.

[GJM]

What do you mean p226 dimensioned tube?

I read it on PF, and then measured. The Macro 17 round mag is the same width as a 226 magazine -- I assume Sig just modified a 226 tube.

[G19Fan]

I read it on PF, and then measured. The Macro 17 round mag is the same width as a 226 magazine -- I assume Sig just modified a 226 tube.


Ooh got it

[G19Fan]

Ooh got it

Makes me curious is a p229 mag works in a macro

[GJM]

Makes me curious is a p229 mag works in a macro

229 E2 mag is fatter than a 226/365 mag.

[G19Fan]

229 E2 mag is fatter than a 226/365 mag.

Ah thanks. Don't have a p226 or p229 anymore

Hoping sig can redesign the 12 to be 14.

[TOTS]

I mean using same macro mag tech to make a new smaller 15 flush fit
Unfortunately, I bet they don’t. I don’t think SIG sees a market for them or can actually do it. The old 15 rnd mags were the same size as the new 17s. Folks that really carry the 365s are either content with the 12s in an XL or get the 12s plus the Magguts mod. Everyone else won’t want to sacrifice the 2 rnds for 1/4 inch saved. I don’t see SIG redesigning the 15s for cutting a Macro grip down and don’t see how it’s possible for them to make them the same size as the old 12s.

[G19Fan]

Unfortunately, I bet they don’t. I don’t think SIG sees a market for them or can actually do it. The old 15 rnd mags were the same size as the new 17s. Folks that really carry the 365s are either content with the 12s in an XL or get the 12s plus the Magguts mod. Everyone else won’t want to sacrifice the 2 rnds for 1/4 inch saved. I don’t see SIG redesigning the 15s for cutting a Macro grip down and don’t see how it’s possible for them to make them the same size as the old 12s.

I am hoping they can make the 14 about same size as old 12s.

I think it will depend on how many states ban mags over 15 and if sig want to get ahead of any stupidity.

[TOTS]

Makes me curious is a p229 mag works in a macro
The 228/229 mags do fit, dimensionally, but the mag release won’t hold them in. The main issue, is that the 226/228/229 mags don’t neck down tight enough to present the round to the barrel.

A benefit I AM taking advantage of is that the baseplates interchange. I found that a 226 plate causes the 17 Macro mags to print less than both the 228/229 and the Macro baseplates. Im passionately trying to find an easy way to remove 1/4 inch from the middle of the tube.

114530
P226 plate

114531
P228/229 plate

[G19Fan]

The 228/229 mags do fit, dimensionally, but the mag release won’t hold them in. The main issue, is that the 226/228/229 mags don’t neck down tight enough to present the round to the barrel.

A benefit I AM taking advantage of is that the baseplates interchange. I found that a 226 plate causes the 17 Macro mags to print less than both the 228/229 and the Macro baseplates. Im passionately trying to find an easy way to remove 1/4 inch from the middle of the tube.

114530
P226 plate

114531
P228/229 plate

Someone online actually chopped the 17 mags and made them 15s (cutting off a spring). Becomes a flush fit 15 for the macro.

I wouldn't trust that but pretty cool

[TOTS]

Someone online actually chopped the 17 mags and made them 15s (cutting off a spring). Becomes a flush fit 15 for the macro.

I wouldn't trust that but pretty cool
I had posted earlier that I tried that (the tube started to crack when I reflanged the sides for the baseplate tabs) but I haven’t seen anything truly flush fit yet. Pictures?

It’s my understanding the tube of the 15 is the same length (or very slightly shorter) as the 17; the difference is the angle of the baseplate. I want the baseplate to not extend past the bottom of the Macro blackstraps, or, if not possible, the flat 226 plate is sufficiently short that I would be happy if it was flush.

114533
Eta: pic from sigtalk - 17 on L. Tubes the same length

[G19Fan]

I had posted earlier that I tried that (the tube started to crack when I reflanged the sides for the baseplate tabs) but I haven’t seen anything truly flush fit yet. Pictures?

It’s my understanding the tube of the 15 is the same length (or very slightly shorter) as the 17; the difference is the angle of the baseplate. I want the baseplate to not extend past the bottom of the Macro blackstraps, or, if not possible, the flat 226 plate is sufficiently short that I would be happy if it was flush.

114533
Eta: pic from sigtalk - 17 on L. Tubes the same length

I unf don't have pics. But he cut the mag and changed the angle.

I know yoi can make the 15 round mags 17 and vice versa by swapping follower and spring

[TOTS]

I unf don't have pics. But he cut the mag and changed the angle.

I know yoi can make the 15 round mags 17 and vice versa by swapping follower and spring
Im interested in how he reattached the baseplate. Im thinking the tube has to be annealed first. When I tried to rebend the tabs, the tube wall showed signs of cracking.

[G19Fan]

Im interested in how he reattached the baseplate. Im thinking the tube has to be annealed first. When I tried to rebend the tabs, the tube wall showed signs of cracking.

Let me see if I can find that post/get in contact with him

[TOTS]

Let me see if I can find that post/get in contact with him
👍 This is what I want. Wish SIG would do it; if they don’t - I will.

114572
What makes this desirable is that, although the heel drops down farther than the XL, the front strap of the XL is just as low. Making the overall dimensions of the Macro the same as the XL. (Probably another reason why SIG didn’t do it)

[MVS]

Put a Macro grip on my XL, I have to say that takes it to a mid size pistol and for me makes it significantly harder to conceal. My 365 AXG conceals a bit better because of different holster but is less comfortable for all day carry. I may go back to the XL grip for NPE duty.

[G19Fan]

Put a Macro grip on my XL, I have to say that takes it to a mid size pistol and for me makes it significantly harder to conceal. My 365 AXG conceals a bit better because of different holster but is less comfortable for all day carry. I may go back to the XL grip for NPE duty.

Chop the macro grip to xl length

[Beat Trash]

Chop the macro grip to xl length

When you chop the Macro grip to XL length, can you still use the backstraps? Or is the cut located above where the retaining pin for the backstrap goes into the grip?

One of the major appeals to me of the macro grip is the ability to use a large backstrap.

[TOTS]

When you chop the Macro grip to XL length, can you still use the backstraps? Or is the cut located above where the retaining pin for the backstrap goes into the grip?

One of the major appeals to me of the macro grip is the ability to use a large backstrap.
Cutting for a 12 rnd XL mag keeps the cut line below the retaining pin. You have to trim the backstraps but you can still use and swap between them.

[G19Fan]

When you chop the Macro grip to XL length, can you still use the backstraps? Or is the cut located above where the retaining pin for the backstrap goes into the grip?

One of the major appeals to me of the macro grip is the ability to use a large backstrap.

Yes! I think I have.posted pics before if not, shout and I can put up pics

[Beat Trash]

Cutting for a 12 rnd XL mag keeps the cut line below the retaining pin. You have to trim the backstraps but you can still use and swap between them.


Yes! I think I have.posted pics before if not, shout and I can put up pics

Thanks guys.